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View Full Version : Jackie McNamara bang on the money in today's Daily Record



.Sean.
31-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Interview here (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/hibernian/2011/05/31/hibs-fans-won-t-accept-being-left-behind-by-hearts-for-a-second-season-warns-easter-road-icon-jackie-mcnamara-86908-23168989/)


HIBS legend Jackie McNamara admits he cast envious eyes down Tynecastle way last week.
McNamara watched as Hearts boss Jim Jefferies launched an early-summer signing spree by swooping for Motherwell striker John Sutton, Kilmarnock midfielder Jamie Hamill and St Johnstone defender Danny Grainger.
The 58-year-old is a big admirer of the three players and admits that from a Hibs perspective Jefferies' decisive pre-emptive raid into the transfer market has left him deeply concerned.
With the promise of more signings to c o m e for the Jambos, McNamara fears that if Colin Calderwood does not bring in his own batch of fresh faces in the summer the Leith side could be left in Hearts slipstream for years to come.
With Hearts re-establishing themselves as the third force in Scotland and getting ready for a tilt at the Europa League, McNamara believes the long-suffering Hibs support are on the brink of revolt after last season's struggles in the SPL.
He said: "I was impressed and depressed by the transfer activity at Tynecastle.
"This is a real statement of intent by Hearts and the players brought in represent a good piece of business.
"I just hope Calderwood has players in the pipeline and will produce a few gems from up his sleeve.
"Hearts have established themselves as the third force in Scotland again and are looking forward to a crack at Europe and Hibs supporters will feel a bit jealous when they watch events at Tynecastle.
"There is only so much the Hibs fans can take. The 10th-place finish last season was dire and the attendances towards the end of the campaign reflected that.
"Hibs should be a top-six side at least. They can't afford to be left in Hearts' wake but you don't see at this moment how they are going to narrow the gap. The fans have to give Calderwood a chance and hopefully he will deliver.
"It is bitterly disappointing the way things have been going though and the feeling is only made worse by what is going on at Hearts at the moment."
McNamara revealed he'd love to have seen Sutton at Easter Road as he would have been the ideal replacement for the departing Derek Riordan.
But while he's desperate to see new faces at Easter Road he is just as concerned about keeping rising stars such as Paul Hanlon and Callum Booth having seen the likes of Garry O'Connor, Scott Brown, Kevin Thomson and Steven Whittaker sold off.
McNamara said: "Riordan is a natural goalscorer and I would love to have seen Sutton come in to replace him.
"Sutton will be a great signing for Hearts and will score goals.
"Hearts are signing good Scottish players who are out of contract.
"They have done their business early and are getting one up on Hibs already.
"The Easter Road fans will be wondering if and when Calderwood is going to sign some players. Hibs need to freshen things up to give the punters a much-needed lift.
"The fans have been used to some flair players at the club in recent times but they have all been sold on for pots of cash. The support are asking where the money went as it has not been reinvested in the team.
"It is a worrying time for the club and I fear that the likes of Hanlon and Booth will be next to leave.
"The supporters just get used to this kind of thing happening year in and year out.
"Hibs won the League Cup in 2007 but the club has gone backwards since then. It is troubling times if you are a Hibs fan and you just have to hope things will get better."
Meanwhile, Ricardo Vaz Te insists he a is happy to wait and see if Hibs want him to stay.
The former Bolton striker's Easter Road contract has expired but the 24-year-old, currently back in his ish native Portugal, said: "Initially the club said they were interested in keeping me and I take the manager's word very seriously but I am still waiting for the club to make the first move.
"I don't think my agent has received an offer yet but I'm lift. sure something will come up. So I am just relaxing."


He's telling it how it is. Take note Petrie.

GreenPJ
31-05-2011, 04:50 PM
Jackie Mac, great player, however, he does decide to ignore some fairly blatant facts.

Where has the money gone? Stadium, training facilities and debt. Am not saying these are right but everyone knows where its gone.

And Jackie, John Sutton is not a Scottish player.

Andy74
31-05-2011, 04:50 PM
Ignoring where Hearts are funding this from though. Poor article.

Westie1875
31-05-2011, 04:56 PM
Jackie Mac, great player, however, he does decide to ignore some fairly blatant facts.

Where has the money gone? Stadium, training facilities and debt. Am not saying these are right but everyone knows where its gone.

And Jackie, John Sutton is not a Scottish player..
Spot on, awful article IMO.

JimBHibees
31-05-2011, 05:02 PM
Jackie Mac, great player, however, he does decide to ignore some fairly blatant facts.

Where has the money gone? Stadium, training facilities and debt. Am not saying these are right but everyone knows where its gone.

And Jackie, John Sutton is not a Scottish player.

Neither is Danny Grainger. :greengrin So one out of 3 aint bad.

His comments about Hearts establishing themselves in 3rd seems OTT IMO, they got 3rd this season after being 7th the season previous lets see where they go next season.

ScottB
31-05-2011, 05:15 PM
What a lot of drivel.

Dunkin' Donut
31-05-2011, 05:36 PM
Ignoring where Hearts are funding this from though. Poor article.

they were all free transfers i thought. they let palazuelos go who apparently was one of their top earners aswell.

Duffys13
31-05-2011, 05:43 PM
.
Spot on, awful article IMO.

Have to agree that it's a poor article, I thought he may have taken note of the current economic climate before trying to compare us to Hearts. Bit of strange one this article for me. Also I still do not worry that we are going to get left in "Hearts Slipstream" even with their early signings.

Barney McGrew
31-05-2011, 05:48 PM
Hertz have signed two more players than Hibs with eight weeks to go until the season starts.

Wow. :rolleyes:

scoopyboy
31-05-2011, 05:50 PM
Jackie has his own agenda regarding Hibs.

Still thinks he got hard done by as Duffy's number two.

Power, McQuilken, Shannon, Tosh, etc however makes me think different.

As stated, poor article.

Aubenas
31-05-2011, 05:55 PM
Here's a thought: As far as I know, CC completes a two week holiday at the end of this week. Rodders does the negotiating. What if RP has negotiated three signings in the past two weeks? Can you imagine the reaction from some on here if HIbs announced three signings and CC wasn't standing behind them when they were introduced? All those 'in the know' would be posting and telling us RP had signed them without CC's knowledge, a sure sign CC was about to be emptied.

Today is the end of most contracts, CC gets back at the end of the week I think. let's just wait and see. :agree:

NORTHERNHIBBY
31-05-2011, 05:56 PM
Pathetic piece of "journalism", that lurches from one cliche to another and only the fact that there is no mention of rock-bottom wages, stops it being a yawn-tastic Daily Record full house. Could have been written by anyone, with even a distant Hibs connection, and the popular former player is a weak attempt to lend it credibility.

Duffys13
31-05-2011, 05:58 PM
Here's a thought: As far as I know, CC completes a two week holiday at the end of this week. Rodders does the negotiating. What if RP has negotiated three signings in the past two weeks? Can you imagine the reaction from some on here if HIbs announced three signings and CC wasn't standing behind them when they were introduced? All those 'in the know' would be posting and telling us RP had signed them without CC's knowledge, a sure sign CC was about to be emptied.

Today is the end of most contracts, CC gets back at the end of the week I think. let's just wait and see. :agree:

Agree with what you say here, also a lot of the English players where I think we will be making our signings from will just be going on holiday/returning too, I reckon.

chrisski33
31-05-2011, 06:00 PM
More.crap.in the daily ******!

ScottB
31-05-2011, 06:07 PM
Pathetic piece of "journalism", that lurches from one cliche to another and only the fact that there is no mention of rock-bottom wages, stops it being a yawn-tastic Daily Record full house. Could have been written by anyone, with even a distant Hibs connection, and the popular former player is a weak attempt to lend it credibility.

Reads more like a story for the Hearts fans to crack one off over than us, though I suppose the relentless moaners will lap it up.

So Hearts have signed 3 players, so we should run out and grab 2 more just to keep the score even should we? It's ******* May. Folk need to chill out.

SneakersO'Toole
31-05-2011, 06:24 PM
The daily record is never bang on the money regarding anything. Fact.

Viva_Palmeiras
31-05-2011, 06:34 PM
Ignoring where Hearts are funding this from though. Poor article.

Yes although we need to show some money no point in follow the leader when the leader is a lemming...

allezsauzee
31-05-2011, 06:45 PM
Hearts have made some decent signings and at the moment look a stick on for at least 3rd spot next season bearing in mind Dundee United seem to be losing some of their better players. If McCoist makes enough of a balls up of the Rangers job they might even get 2nd. It is early days though and hopefully CC has some good signings up his sleeve.

Phil D. Rolls
31-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Jackie has his own agenda regarding Hibs.

Still thinks he got hard done by as Duffy's number two.

Power, McQuilken, Shannon, Tosh, etc however makes me think different.

As stated, poor article.

Agreed. I think he had a tilt at the board a few months back when things were looking really grim.

allezsauzee
31-05-2011, 07:50 PM
Jackie may or may not have his own agenda, however the facts a that we have gone from having a really good young team playing brilliant football ( to the extent that even Chick Young raved about how good it was!) to the utter crap that we had to endure last season. It pains me to say it but Hearts have been looking like they're on the right track ever since they appointed Jumbo and the signs so far point to no narrowing of the gap.

IWasThere2016
31-05-2011, 08:54 PM
Jackie may or may not have his own agenda, however the facts a that we have gone from having a really good young team playing brilliant football ( to the extent that even Chick Young raved about how good it was!) to the utter crap that we had to endure last season. It pains me to say it but Hearts have been looking like they're on the right track ever since they appointed Jumbo and the signs so far point to no narrowing of the gap.

Indeed.

Andy74
31-05-2011, 08:59 PM
Jackie may or may not have his own agenda, however the facts a that we have gone from having a really good young team playing brilliant football ( to the extent that even Chick Young raved about how good it was!) to the utter crap that we had to endure last season. It pains me to say it but Hearts have been looking like they're on the right track ever since they appointed Jumbo and the signs so far point to no narrowing of the gap.

It's easy to look on track when you pay double in total what your rivals do. Things can change quickly with form. 18 months ago we were 20 points ahead of them.

Sure in the short term it's not comfortable but you just can't ignore the financial side of where they are and where we are. They've just had their owner telling them their club won't survive unless they can somehow pull off a new stadium.

That Hibbies are taken in by their nonsense is worrying!

PaulSmith
31-05-2011, 09:02 PM
Hearts have made some decent signings and at the moment look a stick on for at least 3rd spot next season bearing in mind Dundee United seem to be losing some of their better players. If McCoist makes enough of a balls up of the Rangers job they might even get 2nd. It is early days though and hopefully CC has some good signings up his sleeve.

:) utter pish. I'll give any team a 25 point start right now on both the OF and they still won't be close.
One thing Hearts are very good at is building hype before each season and fair play to them for that but let's not get carried away by them signing mid table SPL journeymen.

smurf
31-05-2011, 09:05 PM
Jackie may or may not have his own agenda, however the facts a that we have gone from having a really good young team playing brilliant football ( to the extent that even Chick Young raved about how good it was!) to the utter crap that we had to endure last season. It pains me to say it but Hearts have been looking like they're on the right track ever since they appointed Jumbo and the signs so far point to no narrowing of the gap.

Exactly.

keep the faith
31-05-2011, 09:06 PM
The daily record is never bang on the money regarding anything. Fact.

The most important thing right there.

I suspect whatever Jackie said will be embellished by that rag. Vowed never to buy that paper since the sickening Willie mckay/ Keith Jackson deal to manipulate moves for brown and thomson.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 09:07 PM
:) utter pish. I'll give any team a 25 point start right now on both the OF and they still won't be close.
One thing Hearts are very good at is building hype before each season and fair play to them for that but let's not get carried away by them signing mid table SPL journeymen.

Exactly.

And they will overspend a fortune to finish 30 points behind.

marleyhib
31-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Most footballers and x footballers trot out a lot of kack, plus there is nowt much for the papers to talk about at the moment.

Infact that rag is full of kack period.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:19 PM
Agreed. I think he had a tilt at the board a few months back when things were looking really grim.

Were looking grim?

I for one am jealous of their signings and I couldn't care where they're funding them from -of course because of this they're going bust this week aren't they? Or was it last week they were meant to be going bust?

Maybe, just maybe they're supplementing the signings from increased season ticket sales or a run in Europe?

I share Jackie's concerns, I just wish the Board at ER had some of the passion for the Hibs that Jackie has.

ScottB
31-05-2011, 09:23 PM
Were looking grim?

I for one am jealous of their signings and I couldn't care where they're funding them from -of course because of this they're going bust this week aren't they? Or was it last week they were meant to be going bust?

Maybe, just maybe they're supplementing the signings from increased season ticket sales or a run in Europe?

I share Jackie's concerns, I just wish the Board at ER had some of the passion for the Hibs that Jackie has.

So 'passion' is bitching about the club to the Daily Record now is it?

And why exactly does the Board not care about the club? Because they won't spend million we don't have?

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:28 PM
So 'passion' is bitching about the club to the Daily Record now is it?

Mibbes aye - just because it's that rag doesn't mean there's no credence to anything about what Jackie Mac says. If he'd have said the same thing in The Scotsman what then?

Someone in this thread said this would be "lapped up" by some of us on here - equally as predictable is the mantra put forward by the barrack-room accountants who prefer the fact we've got a great set of accounts compared to them. We cannot put a team on the park to beat them right now, and any one of the players they've signed would walk into that current Hibs team.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 09:37 PM
Mibbes aye - just because it's that rag doesn't mean there's no credence to anything about what Jackie Mac says.

Someone in this thread said this would be "lapped up" by some of us on here - equally as predictable is the mantra put forward by the barrack-room accountants who prefer the fact we've got a great set of accounts compared to them. We cannot put a team on the park to beat them right now, and any one of the players they've signed would walk into that current Hibs team.

You sound like your in the wrong place :greengrin

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:38 PM
You sound like your in the wrong place :greengrin

Inspired. Incidentally it's '"you're" in the wrong place'.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 09:43 PM
Inspired. Incidentally it's '"you're" in the wrong place'.

Thanks for that.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:44 PM
Thanks for that.

Don't mention it.

ScottB
31-05-2011, 09:45 PM
Mibbes aye - just because it's that rag doesn't mean there's no credence to anything about what Jackie Mac says. If he'd have said the same thing in The Scotsman what then?

Someone in this thread said this would be "lapped up" by some of us on here - equally as predictable is the mantra put forward by the barrack-room accountants who prefer the fact we've got a great set of accounts compared to them. We cannot put a team on the park to beat them right now, and any one of the players they've signed would walk into that current Hibs team.

That was me. This 'story' seems to me to be of far more interest to Hearts fans wanting to have a pop than us.

My interest in our accounts goes as far as 'are we losing money hand over fist' if the answer is no. Good.

Just because Hearts have found some bampot who for whatever reason is happy for them to spend millions a year beyond their income is their business. We do not have this. Folk bleating and whingeing that Hearts spend more (remember they effectively lost £8million in the year up to last July, only the mad ones bank pumping that in saved them from hitting their debt ceiling) than us never have an answer as to where this imaginary pot of money that we are to tap into will come from.

It's bloody May. We've signed 1 player, they've signed 3. Big bloody deal. Or is it that all the big clubs do all their transfer dealings in May now is it? Who the hell cares how many players Hearts sign? I'm sure another 10 Kaunas cast offs will rock up over the summer, should we also be looking to top that? Because we've signed 1 so far this means we aren't going to sign anymore does it?

Some folk need to get a bloody grip round here. You reckon Diamond would walk into our team? Jesus.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 09:46 PM
Don't mention it.

There's a whole thread about how we are fourth overall in the SPL in the last ten years despite only having the fifth largest income or spending the fifth most on wages. You've not contributed to that I notice?

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:55 PM
That was me. This 'story' seems to me to be of far more interest to Hearts fans wanting to have a pop than us.

My interest in our accounts goes as far as 'are we losing money hand over fist' if the answer is no. Good.

Just because Hearts have found some bampot who for whatever reason is happy for them to spend millions a year beyond their income is their business. We do not have this. Folk bleating and whingeing that Hearts spend more (remember they effectively lost £8million in the year up to last July, only the mad ones bank pumping that in saved them from hitting their debt ceiling) than us never have an answer as to where this imaginary pot of money that we are to tap into will come from.

It's bloody May. We've signed 1 player, they've signed 3. Big bloody deal. Or is it that all the big clubs do all their transfer dealings in May now is it? Who the hell cares how many players Hearts sign? I'm sure another 10 Kaunas cast offs will rock up over the summer, should we also be looking to top that? Because we've signed 1 so far this means we aren't going to sign anymore does it?

Some folk need to get a bloody grip round here. You reckon Diamond would walk into our team? Jesus.

As far as i'm aware Diamond's not signed for them yet - but I reckon he's still better than Dickoh, so aye he would get a game for us.

You also mentioned passion Scott - try this - try e-mailing the Board and maybe challenge them on our record against that mob in the last 2 seasons (and beyond) and why they as a club seem to want to beat us more than we do them.

I'll venture there'll not be much "passion" in the standard reply that you'll get.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 09:58 PM
There's a whole thread about how we are fourth overall in the SPL in the last ten years despite only having the fifth largest income or spending the fifth most on wages. You've not contributed to that I notice?

This one's a better debate - stats and analysis about accounts tend to leave me cold.

Tell me, when we meekly surrended to them at ER in the 0-2 game, and couldn't put ten men away in the last fixture, were you heartened when you walked home/got in your car that "at least our balance sheet's better than theirs"?

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:04 PM
This one's a better debate - stats and analysis about accounts tend to leave me cold.

Tell me, when we meekly surrended to them at ER in January, and couldn't put ten men away in the last fixture, were you heartened when you walked home/got in your car that "at least our balance sheet's better than theirs"?

You must have been deliriously happy you could come on here and slag off all things Hibs. Oh the joy!

I am pointing out that another thread suggests that, on average, we appear to be doing ok overall and last season was a blip. Obviously cheered you up so every cloud and all that.....

ScottB
31-05-2011, 10:08 PM
As far as i'm aware Diamond's not signed for them yet - but I reckon he's still better than Dickoh, so aye he would get a game for us.

You also mentioned passion Scott - try this - try e-mailing the Board and maybe challenge them on our record against that mob in the last 2 seasons (and beyond) and why they as a club seem to want to beat us more than we do them.

I'll venture there'll not be much "passion" in the standard reply that you'll get.

What Board do you imagine you'll get a suitably 'passionate' response from?

The Boards job is to appoint the manager and provide him with resources we can. It is not their job to be chanting 'we pure hate the Hearts' in the Daily Record.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 10:15 PM
You must have been deliriously happy you could come on here and slag off all things Hibs. Oh the joy!

I am pointing out that another thread suggests that, on average, we appear to be doing ok overall and last season was a blip. Obviously cheered you up so every cloud and all that.....

It's been a four-season long "blip" then eh?

Aye, and I really love Hibs being the way they are just now - that's why I renewed my season ticket at the earliest opportunity and bought one for the old man as well.

This is a forum for DEBATE, dear boy - a stalwart of the club (and a guy who LOVES the Hibs and can be seen regularly home and away) dares to have a pop at the way things are at ER and he's berated for it?

Or did doing that article fill Jackie Mac with "joy" as well do you think?

Tricla
31-05-2011, 10:18 PM
That was me. This 'story' seems to me to be of far more interest to Hearts fans wanting to have a pop than us.

My interest in our accounts goes as far as 'are we losing money hand over fist' if the answer is no. Good.

Just because Hearts have found some bampot who for whatever reason is happy for them to spend millions a year beyond their income is their business. We do not have this. Folk bleating and whingeing that Hearts spend more (remember they effectively lost £8million in the year up to last July, only the mad ones bank pumping that in saved them from hitting their debt ceiling) than us never have an answer as to where this imaginary pot of money that we are to tap into will come from.

It's bloody May. We've signed 1 player, they've signed 3. Big bloody deal. Or is it that all the big clubs do all their transfer dealings in May now is it? Who the hell cares how many players Hearts sign? I'm sure another 10 Kaunas cast offs will rock up over the summer, should we also be looking to top that? Because we've signed 1 so far this means we aren't going to sign anymore does it?

Some folk need to get a bloody grip round here. You reckon Diamond would walk into our team? Jesus.

:top marks

Oh, and the article is mince.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:25 PM
It's been a four-season long "blip" then eh?

Aye, and I really love Hibs being the way they are just now - that's why I renewed my season ticket at the earliest opportunity and bought one for the old man as well.

This is a forum for DEBATE, dear boy - a stalwart of the club (and a guy who LOVES the Hibs and can be seen regularly home and away) dares to have a pop at the way things are at ER and he's berated for it?

Or did doing that article fill Jackie Mac with "joy" as well do you think?

Next season will be similar, as will the one after that. When Hearts continue to spend the way they are we are not going to be able to compete with them on an even field. We will not get near the OF apart from occassionally on a one off basis.

You selectively pick the January game and describe that we "meekly surrendered" which is a bit harsh. We got stuck in in January. We werent good enough but we certainly did not hide or lie down.

ScottB
31-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Next season will be similar, as will the one after that. When Hearts continue to spend the way they are we are not going to be able to compete with them on an even field. We will not get near the OF apart from occassionally on a one off basis.

You selectively pick the January game and describe that we "meekly surrendered" which is a bit harsh. We got stuck in in January. We werent good enough but we certainly did not hide or lie down.

Does that 4 season long blip include finishing above them last year and Mixu's unbeaten record against them I wonder?

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:28 PM
Does that 4 season long blip include finishing above them last year and Mixu's unbeaten record against them I wonder?


No No That didnt happen..........

basehibby
31-05-2011, 10:28 PM
Whether his facts are 100% accurate or not, Jackie's comments reflect the opinions of a lot of fans - ie pished off with watching the Yams splash the cash about while our team has been going down the pan.

Like Jackie, I hope that CC has the goods and will uncover a few gems, suitably backed by the board. The fans DO need a shot in the arm and this close season will not be the time for penny pinching.

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Whether his facts are 100% accurate or not, Jackie's comments reflect the opinions of a lot of fans - ie pished off with watching the Yams splash the cash about while our team has been going down the pan.

Like Jackie, I hope that CC has the goods and will uncover a few gems, suitably backed by the board. The fans DO need a shot in the arm and this close season will not be the time for penny pinching.

Every one of us does. Even the guys who are fighting. But the money simply isnt there.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 10:33 PM
[QUOTE=The Falcon;2817701]Next season will be similar, as will the one after that. When Hearts continue to spend the way they are we are not going to be able to compete with them on an even field. We will not get near the OF apart from occassionally on a one off basis.

Let's just pack up and go hame then - as quite a few are doing judging by the attendances. That'll just leave the Board and their acolytes huddling round the balance sheet in a 1/3d full stadium.

Petrie has to bite the bullet this time round and sign some decent quality. It's that simple.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 10:36 PM
No No That didnt happen..........


The four-season "blip" relates to the quality of football since 2007 - again alluded to in Jackie's article. & FWIW Paatelain's record against them is what we should be aiming for every season - because putting together a run against them has been a "blip" for Hibs, by and large.

But you enjoy the mediocrity, boys.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:38 PM
Let's just pack up and go hame then - as quite a few are doing judging by the attendances. That'll just leave the Board and their acolytes huddling round the balance sheet in a 1/3d full stadium.

Petrie has to bite the bullet this time round and sign some decent quality. It's that simple.

So where does the money come from to do this Malky? Quality costs money and, comparitively, we dont have any. The stats that leave you so cold on the other thread prove thats whats needed.

new malkyhib
31-05-2011, 10:43 PM
So where does the money come from to do this Malky? Quality costs money and, comparitively, we dont have any. The stats that leave you so cold on the other thread prove thats whats needed.

What's needed quallity, or money?

"Quality" actually brings in money through higher attendances, league placings, cup runs, etc. Not exactly rocket science is it?

I know of at least 8 - 10 Hibs season-ticket holders of long standing who no longer have a ST and barely go at all now. They've all fell away in the last 2-3 years - they're all disillusioned with Scottish football in general, but with the club in particular. Why do you think that is?

ScottB
31-05-2011, 10:44 PM
[QUOTE=The Falcon;2817701]Next season will be similar, as will the one after that. When Hearts continue to spend the way they are we are not going to be able to compete with them on an even field. We will not get near the OF apart from occassionally on a one off basis.

Let's just pack up and go hame then - as quite a few are doing judging by the attendances. That'll just leave the Board and their acolytes huddling round the balance sheet in a 1/3d full stadium.

Petrie has to bite the bullet this time round and sign some decent quality. It's that simple.

I've already said this to no response.

Where do we get this money from then?

smurf
31-05-2011, 10:45 PM
Check back to 2002 when according to Rod Petrie we didn't need to sell Ulrik Laursen as our finances were "Rock Solid".

A few days later Ulrik was sold as was Ulises De La Cruz. And Williamson was under firm instructions to get players out the door.

My point is we were told things were "Rock solid" when they were not.

And 12 months later things were so not "Rock solid" that we were off to Straiton....

Whenever Rod Petrie and this board tell me finances are "Rock solid" or we've no money i look out the window to check the weather...

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 10:45 PM
So where does the money come from to do this Malky? Quality costs money and, comparitively, we dont have any. The stats that leave you so cold on the other thread prove thats whats needed.

It dosent actually "prove" it but shows that spending is significant. Whats interesting is that the only club that is out of its place in the income and expenditure compared to overall performance is that Hibs and Aberdeen changed positions. The other 6 regular SPL clubs are exactly where their spending suggests they should be.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:47 PM
Check back to 2002 when according to Rod Petrie we didn't need to sell Ulrik Laursen as our finances were "Rock Solid".

A few days later Ulrik was sold as was Ulises De La Cruz. And Williamson was under firm instructions to get players out the door.

My point is we were told things were "Rock solid" when they were not.

And 12 months later things were so not "Rock solid" that we were off to Straiton....

Whenever Rod Petrie and this board tell me finances are "Rock solid" or we've no money i look out the window to check the weather...

Then dont give them your money. If I felt like that I wouldnt.

ScottB
31-05-2011, 10:47 PM
What's needed quallity, or money?

"Quality" actually brings in money through higher attendances, league placings, cup runs, etc. Not exactly rocket science is it?

I know of at least 8 - 10 Hibs season-ticket holders of long standing who no longer have a ST and barely go at all now. They've all fell away in the last 2-3 years - they're all disillusioned with Scottish football in general, but with the club in particular. Why do you think that is?

If the Mowbray team couldn't fill our stadium (and it didn't), if Hughes side that were pushing second for a time couldn't fill the stadium (and it didn't) then the idea that speculating to accumulate being a good plan is daft.

Besides, there isn't some pot of cash to be gained in the SPL. The placings difference are a few hundred grand at best. That'd barely pay for one player a year.

The Falcon
31-05-2011, 10:49 PM
What's needed quallity, or money?

"Quality" actually brings in money through higher attendances, league placings, cup runs, etc. Not exactly rocket science is it?

I know of at least 8 - 10 Hibs season-ticket holders of long standing who no longer have a ST and barely go at all now. They've all fell away in the last 2-3 years - they're all disillusioned with Scottish football in general, but with the club in particular. Why do you think that is?

Hearts must be making a fortune then. No?

allezsauzee
31-05-2011, 10:52 PM
:) utter pish. I'll give any team a 25 point start right now on both the OF and they still won't be close.
One thing Hearts are very good at is building hype before each season and fair play to them for that but let's not get carried away by them signing mid table SPL journeymen.

How is it pish? They finished 3rd last season. So far they are the only team to have strengthened their squad. They struggled without a target man and they have rectified that by signing a better , younger and fitter player than Kyle. They have signed a left back so that they can move Wallace to centre half. Jumbo might well be a bitter yam fud..however he has a game plan and it's working pretty well so far sadly

smurf
31-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Then dont give them your money. If I felt like that I wouldnt.

I'm not giving anyone money but the club i support and love.

marinello59
31-05-2011, 10:56 PM
How is it pish? They finished 3rd last season. So far they are the only team to have strengthened their squad. They struggled without a target man and they have rectified that by signing a better , younger and fitter player than Kyle. They have signed a left back so that they can move Wallace to centre half. Jumbo might well be a bitter yam fud..however he has a game plan and it's working pretty well so far sadly

Go support Hearts then, we are doomed. Doomed. :boo hoo:

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 10:58 PM
Hearts must be making a fortune then. No?

I would add this for operating losses posted over the period in the other thread

Rangers £91.9m
Hearts £41.5m
Celtic £16.5m
Dons £13.7m
United £11.7m
Killie £6m

All are LOSSES. It's a (very) rich mans game guys.

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I'm not giving anyone money but the club i support and love.

You and I both Smurf. We'll come again!!

IWasThere2016
31-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I would add this for operating losses posted over the period in the other thread

Rangers £91.9m
Hearts £41.5m
Celtic £16.5m
Dons £13.7m
United £11.7m
Killie £6m

All are LOSSES. It's a (very) rich mans game guys.

What period is that? And are these truly operating losses - eg before player sales?

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 11:04 PM
What period is that? And are these truly operating losses - eg before player sales?

Yip, posted in the accounts. A lot of info is not available for all clubs so its this millennium up till the beginning of last season.

Incidently over the same period Motherwell posted overall profits of £100k, Hibs £4.7m (mainly due to a £7.4m profit at the end of 2007) and St. Mirren £11.2m which includes the sale of Love Street. Take that out and they still show a profit of about £1m

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 11:07 PM
What period is that? And are these truly operating losses - eg before player sales?

Thats after player sales TQM, unless payments happened after the accounts were posted, but all transactions should be included.

IWasThere2016
31-05-2011, 11:08 PM
What period is that? And are these truly operating losses - eg before player sales?


Yip, posted in the accounts. A lot of info is not available for all clubs so its this millennium up till the beginning of last season.

Incidently over the same period Motherwell posted overall profits of £100k, Hibs £4.7m (mainly due to a £7.4m profit at the end of 2007) and St. Mirren £11.2m which includes the sale of Love Street. Take that out and they still show a profit of about £1m

That was not an operating profit ..

Do you have a link to the figs above?

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 11:10 PM
That was not an operating profit ..

Do you have a link to the figs above?

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

Dug a bit and used spreadsheets. Can I attach it on a PM if you want. If not I can email it.

IWasThere2016
31-05-2011, 11:10 PM
Thats after player sales TQM, unless payments happened after the accounts were posted, but all transactions should be included.

Yup - our operating losses are significant. The receipts from the golden generation and the car park seperate us from Arabs, Well, Killie etc.

allezsauzee
31-05-2011, 11:11 PM
Go support Hearts then, we are doomed. Doomed. :boo hoo:

No

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 11:11 PM
That was not an operating profit ..

Do you have a link to the figs above?

Thats whats published.

marinello59
31-05-2011, 11:15 PM
No

Fair enough. That would be a bit extreme. :greengrin
Keep the faith. I really don't give a toss what JJ is doing at Tynie. It's only May. If we haven't seen much transfer movement in a months time then I will worry.

Kaiser1962
31-05-2011, 11:15 PM
Yup - our operating losses are significant. The receipts from the golden generation and the car park seperate us from Arabs, Well, Killie etc.

Well now we know what happened to it then!!

Not much available for Well prior to administration. Also shows that Boards at Killie, Well, St. Mirren and Yams receive no salary apparently.

allezsauzee
31-05-2011, 11:20 PM
Fair enough. That would be a bit extreme. :greengrin
Keep the faith. I really don't give a toss what JJ is doing at Tynie. It's only May. If we haven't seen much transfer movement in a months time then I will worry.

I'll always keep the faith and even if they were playing Barca for the champions league and we were fighting it out with East Stirling, i'd thank god I'm not one of those yam fuds!

oldbutdim
31-05-2011, 11:40 PM
Fair enough. That would be a bit extreme. :greengrin
Keep the faith. I really don't give a toss what JJ is doing at Tynie. It's only May. If we haven't seen much transfer movement in a months time then I will worry.

It's June now.

Worried?

:wink:

sesoim
01-06-2011, 03:03 AM
Here's a thought: As far as I know, CC completes a two week holiday at the end of this week. Rodders does the negotiating. What if RP has negotiated three signings in the past two weeks? Can you imagine the reaction from some on here if HIbs announced three signings and CC wasn't standing behind them when they were introduced? All those 'in the know' would be posting and telling us RP had signed them without CC's knowledge, a sure sign CC was about to be emptied.

Today is the end of most contracts, CC gets back at the end of the week I think. let's just wait and see. :agree:


:agree: Good points. But I can't blame anyone for getting worried/frustrated/panicky at the moment, as I feel the same. Until we know who we've signed, that will continue.

marinello59
01-06-2011, 03:37 AM
It's June now.

Worried?

:wink:

:greengrin

Lucius Apuleius
01-06-2011, 06:41 AM
Way I look at it is the old keep up with the Jones's. Next door borrows money or hits their credit cards to buy $100 trainers for their kids. I buy mine $10 green stripes because it is what I can afford. My brats start crying about it. I see no evidence that spending money we do not have on so called quality players ( I thought Miller, Riordan etc were quality???) will bring in any extra supporters. I could name half a dozen hun suporters living near me who are not renewing their season tickets saying they are crap to watch. Personally feel it is a choice people have to make regarding their finances. If the 37 quid a month being quoted here is correct and people have to worry whether they can afford that for the football then I would suggest the money should be spent elsewhere.

Kaiser1962
01-06-2011, 07:23 AM
That was not an operating profit ..

Do you have a link to the figs above?

I see....it was late. You're being a tad picky there TQM :greengrin

"profit on ordinary activities" then. Is that better :greengrin

Big Frank
01-06-2011, 09:05 AM
If the Mowbray team couldn't fill our stadium (and it didn't), if Hughes side that were pushing second for a time couldn't fill the stadium (and it didn't) then the idea that speculating to accumulate being a good plan is daft.

Besides, there isn't some pot of cash to be gained in the SPL. The placings difference are a few hundred grand at best. That'd barely pay for one player a year.


This line gets trotted out all the time. Factually you are, of course correct, but regarding Mowbrays team... how long did we have before that team was getting disbanded? A full season in and katie & broony were touted and off. I'm fairly certain, if that team had been given more time, and perhaps a little bit of experience added, we'd have been major players and be going for titles. IMO they could have been that good. It was just broken up too quickly (for whatever reason). I felt around that time there were hibbys "coming back" all over the place, picking games here and there, with a wee bit more time I honestly think we'd have been seeing big gates :agree: (sometimes we had Hibs fans in the dunbar end remeber).

Regarding Hughes, I think there wasn't crowds there as we winged it for the majority if his tenure and for a large part we were in freefall. Hughes was never going to bring crowds in....

Don't mean to pick on just two aspects of your excellant debate with malky :thumbsup:

ScottB
01-06-2011, 10:55 AM
This line gets trotted out all the time. Factually you are, of course correct, but regarding Mowbrays team... how long did we have before that team was getting disbanded? A full season in and katie & broony were touted and off. I'm fairly certain, if that team had been given more time, and perhaps a little bit of experience added, we'd have been major players and be going for titles. IMO they could have been that good. It was just broken up too quickly (for whatever reason). I felt around that time there were hibbys "coming back" all over the place, picking games here and there, with a wee bit more time I honestly think we'd have been seeing big gates :agree: (sometimes we had Hibs fans in the dunbar end remeber).

Regarding Hughes, I think there wasn't crowds there as we winged it for the majority if his tenure and for a large part we were in freefall. Hughes was never going to bring crowds in....

Don't mean to pick on just two aspects of your excellant debate with malky :thumbsup:

I imagine in the long term if such a squad could be sustained, more people would start turning up, but we'd need a hell of a lot, more than our stadium can probably hold, to pay the sort of wages required to keep that class of player interested. They were cracking players, and once folk start dangling £20k a week plus in front of their faces, there will always be little we can do about it. That's not a lack of ambition, that's just reality.

My view is we need to try and reach a situation where we are constantly producing crops of young players, supplemented by fewer, higher quality players from outside. Our recent problems were caused by the wheels coming off the conveyor belt of youngsters and having to fill the team with journeymen...

patlowe
01-06-2011, 10:57 AM
It's a shame but we have to accept that Hearts are significantly ahead of us on the park just now and their recent signings, while not world-beaters, are undoubtedly decent.

However, this should not be used as an excuse to make panic signings, and to suggest that hibs fans don't know where the money has gone is frankly ridiculous. Hibs have clearly INVESTED in infrastructure and managers have clearly been BACKED to a fair extent by the board (I capitalised those words as they are the verbs usually used when the board is criticised). People are in for a shock if they think hibs can spend much more than they currently do on wages/fees, and what Hearts spend is completely irrelevant really.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything the board has done for the club in recent times but this article is complete nonsense IMO.

Kaiser1962
01-06-2011, 11:11 AM
And this line gets trotted out all the time Frank. Fact is all of them wanted to go and none of them begged to stay. Even Scunthorpe, I mean SCUNTHORPE FFS, can outpay and outbid us.

Hearts are doing exactly what lots of folk are claiming we should be doing and they arent making money, they arent challenging for the title and they arent playing to full houses.

We have only topped an average of 14k once since 1974, when we WERE in with a shout of the title, so I dont know where all these fans are going to come from.


This line gets trotted out all the time. Factually you are, of course correct, but regarding Mowbrays team... how long did we have before that team was getting disbanded? A full season in and katie & broony were touted and off. I'm fairly certain, if that team had been given more time, and perhaps a little bit of experience added, we'd have been major players and be going for titles. IMO they could have been that good. It was just broken up too quickly (for whatever reason). I felt around that time there were hibbys "coming back" all over the place, picking games here and there, with a wee bit more time I honestly think we'd have been seeing big gates :agree: (sometimes we had Hibs fans in the dunbar end remeber).

Regarding Hughes, I think there wasn't crowds there as we winged it for the majority if his tenure and for a large part we were in freefall. Hughes was never going to bring crowds in....

Don't mean to pick on just two aspects of your excellant debate with malky :thumbsup:

GreenPJ
01-06-2011, 11:15 AM
This line gets trotted out all the time. Factually you are, of course correct, but regarding Mowbrays team... how long did we have before that team was getting disbanded? A full season in and katie & broony were touted and off. I'm fairly certain, if that team had been given more time, and perhaps a little bit of experience added, we'd have been major players and be going for titles. IMO they could have been that good. It was just broken up too quickly (for whatever reason). I felt around that time there were hibbys "coming back" all over the place, picking games here and there, with a wee bit more time I honestly think we'd have been seeing big gates :agree: (sometimes we had Hibs fans in the dunbar end remeber).

Regarding Hughes, I think there wasn't crowds there as we winged it for the majority if his tenure and for a large part we were in freefall. Hughes was never going to bring crowds in....

Don't mean to pick on just two aspects of your excellant debate with malky :thumbsup:

Big gates of 17K whilst the Old Squirm get their 45-55K every second week in terms of attendance. The sad truth of the matter is if we had kept the 'golden generation' the Old Squirm would have spent more money to ensure they continued to dominate (because they could). We on the other hand would be reliant on increasing our attendance to the max 17K (we would not have had a new stand - admittedly still not sure we need one these days) and reliant on winning things (leagues, cups etc) and progressing to a decent stage in Europe although through the UEFA cup this would need to be going to the later stages to get decent money.

Its all speculation and whilst that does have to happen at times there does have to be a sustainable aspect to any business plan and sadly for us that means selling (some at least) of the family silver when its good enough to sell.

Saorsa
01-06-2011, 11:19 AM
We have only topped an average of 14k once since 1974, when we WERE in with a shout of the title, so I dont know where all these fans are going to come from.Yet this board thought it necessary tae spend however many millions adding another 3000 seats tae the 3000 they already cannae sell? Where are the fans coming from tae fill that?

Kaiser1962
01-06-2011, 11:22 AM
Its all speculation and whilst that does have to happen at times there does have to be a sustainable aspect to any business plan and sadly for us that means selling (some at least) of the family silver when its good enough to sell.


This is the bit that rankles with everyone on both sides of this argument PJ. From the figures here and elswhere we seem to be the only club thats following any sort of half sensible plan. Celtic to a degree. And its getting us nowhere.

Kaiser1962
01-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Yet this board thought it necessary tae spend however many millions adding another 3000 seats tae the 3000 they already cannae sell? Where are the fans coming from tae fill that?

Or they wouldnt have got planning permission after we got shafted by the council and they built flats behind it. The stadium would never have been finished.

ScottB
01-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Big gates of 17K whilst the Old Squirm get their 45-55K every second week in terms of attendance. The sad truth of the matter is if we had kept the 'golden generation' the Old Squirm would have spent more money to ensure they continued to dominate (because they could). We on the other hand would be reliant on increasing our attendance to the max 17K (we would not have had a new stand - admittedly still not sure we need one these days) and reliant on winning things (leagues, cups etc) and progressing to a decent stage in Europe although through the UEFA cup this would need to be going to the later stages to get decent money.

Its all speculation and whilst that does have to happen at times there does have to be a sustainable aspect to any business plan and sadly for us that means selling (some at least) of the family silver when its good enough to sell.

But then that is true of pretty much any team on Earth bar the very top, see Rangers losing Wilson to Liverpool, there's always a bigger fish out there and unless you are at the top of the food chain, someone else will come along and offer players money that their current club can only dream of.

ScottB
01-06-2011, 11:33 AM
Yet this board thought it necessary tae spend however many millions adding another 3000 seats tae the 3000 they already cannae sell? Where are the fans coming from tae fill that?

Long term it cost a lot less than projected due to the recession, planning permission for it was running out with no guarantee of a renewal and it should open up additional revenue streams, hosting internationals / cup matches etc.

PaulSmith
01-06-2011, 09:58 PM
Wait until they announce that they've signed another Hibs target in Ryan Flynn from Falkirk, this place will go bananas.

Kaiser1962
01-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Wait until they announce that they've signed another Hibs target in Ryan Flynn from Falkirk, this place will go bananas.

Is that confirmed yet?

Beefster
02-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Yup - our operating losses are significant. The receipts from the golden generation and the car park seperate us from Arabs, Well, Killie etc.

So, if our good financial performance depends entirely on a bit of property that was owned for a long time and an entirely fortuitous number of good young players coming through in a short period, what did Rodders do to justify his 'financial genius' tag?

new malkyhib
02-06-2011, 09:31 PM
So, if our good financial performance depends entirely on a bit of property that was owned for a long time and an entirely fortuitous number of good young players coming through in a short period, what did Rodders do to justify his 'financial genius' tag?

He's an accountant. They run the whole country now and have done for years, Beefster. A slavish devotion to the bottom line doesn't make you a "genius" in my book.

Look at the health service - run now under "free market" principles and top-heavy with expensive managers and administrators.

Ring any bells?

dangermouse
03-06-2011, 09:40 AM
This line gets trotted out all the time. Factually you are, of course correct, but regarding Mowbrays team... how long did we have before that team was getting disbanded? A full season in and katie & broony were touted and off. I'm fairly certain, if that team had been given more time, and perhaps a little bit of experience added, we'd have been major players and be going for titles. IMO they could have been that good. It was just broken up too quickly (for whatever reason). I felt around that time there were hibbys "coming back" all over the place, picking games here and there, with a wee bit more time I honestly think we'd have been seeing big gates :agree: (sometimes we had Hibs fans in the dunbar end remeber).

Regarding Hughes, I think there wasn't crowds there as we winged it for the majority if his tenure and for a large part we were in freefall. Hughes was never going to bring crowds in....

Don't mean to pick on just two aspects of your excellant debate with malky :thumbsup:

The players wanted more money than we were prepared to pay. :dunno:

hibs0666
03-06-2011, 11:21 AM
http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

Dug a bit and used spreadsheets. Can I attach it on a PM if you want. If not I can email it.

PWC does the best review of the SPL IMHO...

PWC review (http://www.pwc.co.uk/scotland/publications/the_21st_annual_financial_review_of_scottish_premi er_league_football.html)

IWasThere2016
03-06-2011, 11:31 AM
So, if our good financial performance depends entirely on a bit of property that was owned for a long time and an entirely fortuitous number of good young players coming through in a short period, what did Rodders do to justify his 'financial genius' tag?

I have no idea .. never a set of words I'd use alongside RP's name.

aberhibsfc
04-06-2011, 09:22 AM
Despondency has certainly taken hold if anyone is looking at Fat Jim's SPL captures.

They are average or slightly above the SPL fare, they are NOT great players. What happened to the World Cup stars etc?

My how times have really changed if we believe that these guys are real captures. I fear for Scottish football's future if that's the case.

I haven't seen our signings yet, but despite the alleged gulf in wages, I wouldn't expect, or hope to sign players of that or less calibre.