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View Full Version : How much can Hibs actually afford to pay in wages?



Hibbyradge
26-05-2011, 10:28 PM
Average crowd 11000 including seasons, kids and walk ups.

20 odd first team players. Loads of youngsters.

How much should we be offering as a salary to our players?

HUTCHYHIBBY
26-05-2011, 10:47 PM
Since we have such a sound off pitch set up, more than the 6 teams that finished a tad above us, ignoring the first 3 in the league, so, where is the problem? I've not got the answer!

Kaiser1962
26-05-2011, 10:53 PM
Average crowd 11000 including seasons, kids and walk ups.

20 odd first team players. Loads of youngsters.

How much should we be offering as a salary to our players?


Compared to a shop worker, probably a fortune.

Compared to Wayne Rooney, loose change.

IWasThere2016
26-05-2011, 10:54 PM
Average crowd 11000 including seasons, kids and walk ups.

20 odd first team players. Loads of youngsters.

How much should we be offering as a salary to our players?

Too late/tired to look ..

What's our turnover £7m?
Do the accounts give enough analysis?

20 players @ £2,500p/w + NI for 52 weeks is c £2.9m

11,000 @ £15 avg. per ticket for 18 SPL games is £2.9m

So assuming the turnover is c£7m that's c.40% on the team

This leaves SPL/TV/Merchandise/advertising/sponsorship/cup runs (remember them!) etc to cover non-playing staff/Board/operating costs/debt etc ..

So without looking and thinking too hard about it - £2,500 p/w

Night night all! :bye:

iwasthere1972
26-05-2011, 10:59 PM
Average crowd 11000 including seasons, kids and walk ups.

20 odd first team players. Loads of youngsters.

How much should we be offering as a salary to our players?

Wages should be based on performance. 10/10 gets £3000 a week, 9/10 gets £2700, 8/10 gets £2400 and so on. it's the way forward.

Players can get their performance results from Hibs.net immediately after the game.

The Harp
26-05-2011, 11:28 PM
How much can Hibs actually afford to pay in wages?

Roughly less than half of what a decent player would expect ... which is more than twice as much as Rod is willing to offer. :wink:

'Mon the Hibs
27-05-2011, 01:07 AM
I know De Graff is/was paid £x000 per week :wink:

I

Hibbyradge
27-05-2011, 06:35 AM
Too late/tired to look ..

What's our turnover £7m?
Do the accounts give enough analysis?

20 players @ £2,500p/w + NI for 52 weeks is c £2.9m

11,000 @ £15 avg. per ticket for 18 SPL games is £2.9m

So assuming the turnover is c£7m that's c.40% on the team

This leaves SPL/TV/Merchandise/advertising/sponsorship/cup runs (remember them!) etc to cover non-playing staff/Board/operating costs/debt etc ..

So without looking and thinking too hard about it - £2,500 p/w

Night night all! :bye:

Don't we pay tax and VAT on the gate money? :dunno:

WindyMiller
27-05-2011, 06:45 AM
Wages for all staff for the year up to 31st July 2010 was £4.8m.
i.e. 68% of total income.

Hibby Kay-Yay
27-05-2011, 06:59 AM
Wages for all staff for the year up to 31st July 2010 was £4.8m.
i.e. 68% of total income.

Was our cap not meant to be 60% wages to turnover? No doubt a reduction in squad will bring us back in line with perhaps some movement for decent wages in there too. Thing is we need more people attending games to increase that budget, however, even if we sold out every home game and had great cup runs we would still not be able to match or compete with the OF or Hertz on wages!

Maybe we should sell ER and move to a shiny new 50k stadium to try and meet some of the expectations of the board (hibs.net board) :wink:

WindyMiller
27-05-2011, 07:05 AM
Was our cap not meant to be 60% wages to turnover? No doubt a reduction in squad will bring us back in line with perhaps some movement for decent wages in there too. Thing is we need more people attending games to increase that budget, however, even if we sold out every home game and had great cup runs we would still not be able to match or compete with the OF or Hertz on wages!

Maybe we should sell ER and move to a shiny new 50k stadium to try and meet some of the expectations of the board (hibs.net board) :wink:

:agree:

Luna_Asylum
27-05-2011, 07:28 AM
Wages for all staff for the year up to 31st July 2010 was £4.8m.
i.e. 68% of total income.

Does that figure get split up in the accounts?
Should be interesting to see how much is player wages and how much is the other wages by some kind of category - i.e. other footie related/non footie people/directors etc

WindyMiller
27-05-2011, 07:34 AM
Does that figure get split up in the accounts?
Should be interesting to see how much is player wages and how much is the other wages by some kind of category - i.e. other footie related/non footie people/directors etc

No.
Directors pay was £500k, of which £100k was paid to Petrie.
A lot of the staff will be part-time, minimum wage (T.O., shop etc), but East Mains must cost a bit to run.

Luna_Asylum
27-05-2011, 07:45 AM
Directors pay was £500k.
A lot of the staff will be part-time, minimum wage (T.O., shop etc), but East Mains must cost a bit to run.

Then I should think it's about time the directors pay was performance related.Like that when we have a terrible season it will free up some cash for new players.
The shop people I would leave alone as they are good at telling us what names not to get printed on our shirts due to insider knowledge of who is leaving.

IWasThere2016
27-05-2011, 07:47 AM
Don't we pay tax and VAT on the gate money? :dunno:

Yes - we pay VAT - but we can offset input VAT also. We only pay the net difference.

number 27
27-05-2011, 08:01 AM
Tony Mowbray said quite recently that the top earner at ER was on about 1500 quid per week. It was a bit of a throwaway line but it still sounded surprisingly low.:dunno:

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 08:04 AM
Tony Mowbray said quite recently that the top earner at ER was on about 1500 quid per week. It was a bit of a throwaway line but it still sounded surprisingly low.:dunno:

Maybe back when he was in charge but there have been more than a couple of players on more than that in the years since.

A certain winger compared to someone on a motorbike was on nearly 3 times that with a flat and a car thrown in.

number 27
27-05-2011, 08:13 AM
Maybe back when he was in charge but there have been more than a couple of players on more than that in the years since.

A certain winger compared to someone on a motorbike was on nearly 3 times that with a flat and a car thrown in.


That's what I thought too but he did make the comment quite recently in relation to Grounds loan deal. I don't suppose there is any reason for Mowbray to be in the know about our finances now though.

RIP
27-05-2011, 08:13 AM
Other SPL football chairmen are footy men who dig into their personal fortunes to sign players

We don't have that at Hibs and are run completely off the balance sheet/P&L. So if we are competing with any of these clubs for any player we will almost always come of 2nd best if the other Chairman dips into his pocket

Our only hope is bringing in players that are on no other SPL teams radar or with whom Hibs or Colin have a previous connection. E.g. Pallson, Thornhill, Sodje

Harsh economic truths at ER

IanM
27-05-2011, 08:15 AM
In all honesty they could pay whatever wages they wantedas they could find the money

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 08:21 AM
Other SPL football chairmen are footy men who dig into their personal fortunes to sign players
We don't have that at Hibs and are run completely off the balance sheet/P&L. So if we are competing with any of these clubs for any player we will almost always come of 2nd best if the other Chairman dips into his pocket

Our only hope is bringing in players that are on no other SPL teams radar or with whom Hibs or Colin have a previous connection. E.g. Pallson, Thornhill, Sodje

Harsh economic truths at ER

Who are these chairmen/owners?

Craig Whyte at rangers - Remains to be seen.

Dermot Desmond at Celtic - Has put money into the club in the past but they now live within their means.

Stewart Milne at Aberdeen - Nope.

Stephen Thompson at Dundee Utd - Major cost cutting going on at Tannadice.

John Boyle at Motherwell - Put money in to help out the financial crisis but money to lavish on players - Nope!

Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, ICT, Dunfermilne etc etc - No.

The only one who may do is Vlad but no one really knows what is going on at Tynecastle financially.

So i think we can conclude that your claim is, to put it bluntly, nonsense.

AndersonGGTTH
27-05-2011, 08:22 AM
Tony Mowbray said quite recently that the top earner at ER was on about 1500 quid per week. It was a bit of a throwaway line but it still sounded surprisingly low.:dunno:

when did mogga say this?:confused:

AndersonGGTTH
27-05-2011, 08:23 AM
In all honesty they could pay whatever wages they wantedas they could find the money


WONGA.com

number 27
27-05-2011, 08:38 AM
when did mogga say this?:confused:

It was a public forum with Boro fans in February maybe. I'm sure you could find a report on a Boro forum somewhere. If you have time it might be worth looking for as
he was quite open and interesting on the situation there.

didn't say much else about us though.

AndersonGGTTH
27-05-2011, 08:40 AM
It was a public forum with Boro fans in February maybe. I'm sure you could find a report on a Boro forum somewhere. If you have time it might be worth looking for as
he was quite open and interesting on the situation there.

didn't say much else about us though.

oh thank you .. seems strange why he would want to talk about us:confused:

smurf
27-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Who are these chairmen/owners?

Craig Whyte at rangers - Remains to be seen.

Dermot Desmond at Celtic - Has put money into the club in the past but they now live within their means.

Stewart Milne at Aberdeen - Nope.

Stephen Thompson at Dundee Utd - Major cost cutting going on at Tannadice.

John Boyle at Motherwell - Put money in to help out the financial crisis but money to lavish on players - Nope!

Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, ICT, Dunfermilne etc etc - No.

The only one who may do is Vlad but no one really knows what is going on at Tynecastle financially.

So i think we can conclude that your claim is, to put it bluntly, nonsense.

Anyone could counter spin that spin. Certainly the named individuals would.:wink:

number 27
27-05-2011, 08:44 AM
oh thank you .. seems strange why he would want to talk about us:confused:

It was really about Grounds. Mowbray was pointing out that Grounds is a left back who did not really excel up here but Mogga was having to rely on him in central defence.

AndersonGGTTH
27-05-2011, 09:02 AM
It was really about Grounds. Mowbray was pointing out that Grounds is a left back who did not really excel up here but Mogga was having to rely on him in central defence.

yes , i recall him playing CB did he not score on his first game back?

aob4green
27-05-2011, 09:41 AM
If the product on the park was better, then the average attendance would increase, and free more money for wages. From what I hear season ticket sales for the coming season have slumped and if the Hibs board stick to their low wage policy then the knock on effect will be, poor performances, under acheivement and low crowds.

The Board have to take account of this and my view is that there is a reasonable arguement to relax the maximum wage policy to bring in proven quality. (What would you pay for another Sauzee or Latapy). People will argue that this may be a divisive policy but i think that there is case for it when the player has a CV that can't be argued with.

I know someone who emailed the board recently echoing these same concerns and the answer that cam back from Fyfe Hyland (and fair play for getting back) was that it was true that Hibs have lost out on players in this close season already due to wages. I've heard that we wouldn't/couldn't match St Mirren for Steven Thompson.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and we'll bring in the quality and experience that we've been crying out for over the last 2 or 3 seasons. But there is a reason why, during this time we have consistently underacheived and it boils down to the strict wage structure that has us scratching around competing for the signature of players who have better financial options by signing for St Mirren, Motherwell and others.

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 09:46 AM
If the product on the park was better, then the average attendance would increase, and free more money for wages. From what I hear season ticket sales for the coming season have slumped and if the Hibs board stick to their low wage policy then the knock on effect will be, poor performances, under acheivement and low crowds.

The Board have to take account of this and my view is that there is a reasonable arguement to relax the maximum wage policy to bring in proven quality. (What would you pay for another Sauzee or Latapy). People will argue that this may be a divisive policy but i think that there is case for it when the player has a CV that can't be argued with.

I know someone who emailed the board recently echoing these same concerns and the answer that cam back from Fyfe Hyland (and fair play for getting back) was that it was true that Hibs have lost out on players in this close season already due to wages. I've heard that we wouldn't/couldn't match St Mirren for Steven Thompson.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and we'll bring in the quality and experience that we've been crying out for over the last 2 or 3 seasons. But there is a reason why, during this time we have consistently underacheived and it boils down to the strict wage structure that has us scratching around competing for the signature of players who have better financial options by signing for St Mirren, Motherwell and others.

Hibs have made an operating loss in the region of £2M in each of the last couple of years (before any slump in ST sales). Where's the extra money going to come from?

aob4green
27-05-2011, 10:00 AM
Hibs have made an operating loss in the region of £2M in each of the last couple of years (before any slump in ST sales). Where's the extra money going to come from?

When I go along to easter road on a Saturday, operating losses are not my main concern. Couldn't care less about them. I'll bet you Petrie and Farmer's wallets haven't made any operating losses.

I'm a football fan and want to see a decent competitive team on the park. At the minute we have a few decent youths, but just don't seem to have the experience/class to compliment it. That will require investment in the team, which should in turn increase season ticket sales, and make a dent in the 'operating loss' or that too simplistic. Coupled with a board with some foresight to make bold and inventive plans to increase revenue, things should improve. (They take enough out of the club in wages for fans to at least expect that). The poster who talks about performance related pay for the board has a point.

Don Giovanni
27-05-2011, 10:07 AM
Maybe back when he was in charge but there have been more than a couple of players on more than that in the years since.

A certain winger compared to someone on a motorbike was on nearly 3 times that with a flat and a car thrown in.

Wow! That's some deal.

IMO that only serves to highlight how poor JC & TC were at player recruitment!

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 10:16 AM
If the product on the park was better, then the average attendance would increase, and free more money for wages. From what I hear season ticket sales for the coming season have slumped and if the Hibs board stick to their low wage policy then the knock on effect will be, poor performances, under acheivement and low crowds.

The Board have to take account of this and my view is that there is a reasonable arguement to relax the maximum wage policy to bring in proven quality. (What would you pay for another Sauzee or Latapy). People will argue that this may be a divisive policy but i think that there is case for it when the player has a CV that can't be argued with.

I know someone who emailed the board recently echoing these same concerns and the answer that cam back from Fyfe Hyland (and fair play for getting back) was that it was true that Hibs have lost out on players in this close season already due to wages. I've heard that we wouldn't/couldn't match St Mirren for Steven Thompson.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and we'll bring in the quality and experience that we've been crying out for over the last 2 or 3 seasons. But there is a reason why, during this time we have consistently underacheived and it boils down to the strict wage structure that has us scratching around competing for the signature of players who have better financial options by signing for St Mirren, Motherwell and others.

CC/the club have already said they're looking to reduce the size of first team squad with a view to inceasing the quality. What bit of that don't you understand?

Do you think that Palsson, for example, chose to come to ER from Liverpool for low wages?

HFC 0-7
27-05-2011, 10:25 AM
Hibs have made an operating loss in the region of £2M in each of the last couple of years (before any slump in ST sales). Where's the extra money going to come from?

Its a rock and a hard place, pay wages that mean we dont have an operating loss and probably not see any improvement on the pitch and the next season more fans will stay away leaving us in a worse off situation.

Spend money and run at an operating loss and the product may improve, however, the money we receive for better product may not cover the losses and if we dont have good cup runs we will have had losses, more fan discontent and a period of cost cutting again to follow.

Personally I would like to see the latter adopted as poor product when the board hasnt, in the eyes of the fans, showed ambition will cause more discontent than if we fail to achieve having spent money as the fans will see that the board have at least showed ambition (again in the eyes of many fans)

Positives and negatives for both cases I would say, and not an easy decision to be made with it, thats why the board get paid the big bucks.

aob4green
27-05-2011, 10:28 AM
CC/the club have already said they're looking to reduce the size of first team squad with a view to inceasing the quality. What bit of that don't you understand?

Do you think that Palsson, for example, chose to come to ER from Liverpool for low wages?

I don't think he did. I know he did. I also know the low wage paid to him was the reason for only committing to an 18 month contract. He sees it as an opportunity to put himself in the shop window to get to another team who pay higher wages. Had Hibs offered a better wage he would have signed for longer. But Hibs dont pay competitive salaries, that's the bit I do understand.

Until they do then the quality of team on the park wont get any better.

The board are taking the fans for idiots. January is a classic example when we had 3 of our biggest games of the season, then made all of signings after these games. However we probably saved a few thousand on wages!!! The board will continue to get away with it though because there will always be those who follow with blind faith.

hibsbollah
27-05-2011, 10:49 AM
The board will continue to get away with it though because there will always be those who follow with blind faith.

Are you suggesting a boycott?

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 10:56 AM
I don't think he did. I know he did. I also know the low wage paid to him was the reason for only committing to an 18 month contract. He sees it as an opportunity to put himself in the shop window to get to another team who pay higher wages. Had Hibs offered a better wage he would have signed for longer. But Hibs dont pay competitive salaries, that's the bit I do understand.

Until they do then the quality of team on the park wont get any better.

The board are taking the fans for idiots. January is a classic example when we had 3 of our biggest games of the season, then made all of signings after these games. However we probably saved a few thousand on wages!!! The board will continue to get away with it though because there will always be those who follow with blind faith.

Yeah, you're dead right - I'm sure it was deliberate. :coffee:

marinello59
27-05-2011, 10:59 AM
The board are taking the fans for idiots. January is a classic example when we had 3 of our biggest games of the season, then made all of signings after these games. However we probably saved a few thousand on wages!!! The board will continue to get away with it though because there will always be those who follow with blind faith.

Some of them are though.

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 11:00 AM
Some of them are though.

:tee hee:

Kaiser1962
27-05-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't think he did. I know he did. I also know the low wage paid to him was the reason for only committing to an 18 month contract. He sees it as an opportunity to put himself in the shop window to get to another team who pay higher wages. Had Hibs offered a better wage he would have signed for longer. But Hibs dont pay competitive salaries, that's the bit I do understand.

Until they do then the quality of team on the park wont get any better.

The board are taking the fans for idiots. January is a classic example when we had 3 of our biggest games of the season, then made all of signings after these games. However we probably saved a few thousand on wages!!! The board will continue to get away with it though because there will always be those who follow with blind faith.

You dont fall into this category though. You are well ahead of them and can see through their cunning plan.

Speedway
27-05-2011, 11:16 AM
Let's say we're at £6m turnover this year.

Let's say wages are 60% of that = £3.6m

Let's say that playing staff (not board, not coaching, not admin, not club shop, not catering, not EM staff) is 70% of £3.6m = £2.52m

Then lets say there are 24 players to share out that £2.52m on.

Let's say they are all paid the same amount = £105,000 a year each or £2,019 per week.

And that's on generous estimates.

We need Caversham Green for accuracy of calculations.

silverhibee
27-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Who are these chairmen/owners?

Craig Whyte at rangers - Remains to be seen.

Dermot Desmond at Celtic - Has put money into the club in the past but they now live within their means.

Stewart Milne at Aberdeen - Nope.

Stephen Thompson at Dundee Utd - Major cost cutting going on at Tannadice.

John Boyle at Motherwell - Put money in to help out the financial crisis but money to lavish on players - Nope!

Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, ICT, Dunfermilne etc etc - No.

The only one who may do is Vlad but no one really knows what is going on at Tynecastle financially.

So i think we can conclude that your claim is, to put it bluntly, nonsense.


Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.

DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.

SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.

ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.

The other 4 teams. Agree with you.

Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.

STF at Hibs, wee all have to be grateful for what the man has done for the club, but has he ever put money in to help the team at any time.

smurf
27-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.

DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.

SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.

ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.

The other 4 teams. Agree with you.

Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.

STF at Hibs, wee all have to be grateful for what the man has done for the club, but has he ever put money in to help the team at any time.

Sir Tom borrowed us the money to buy Murdo MacLeod in 1990....

franck sauzee
27-05-2011, 12:25 PM
Why does everyone always have a moan about STF, he saved us and continues to service our debt, not bad for someone who doesnt even like football that much

Cropley10
27-05-2011, 12:32 PM
It's imperative that we balance the books. If the wages/turnover ratio is 68% then we must get the wages figure DOWN.

Yes that might mean we attract lower quality players in the short term, but at least we secure the long-term future of the Club.

Cropley10
27-05-2011, 12:33 PM
Why does everyone always have a moan about STF, he saved us and continues to service our debt, not bad for someone who doesnt even like football that much

Do you know if STF has made any money from Hibs?

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 12:36 PM
Do you know if STF has made any money from Hibs?

:agree: Shiploads.

I read it on here.

Spike Mandela
27-05-2011, 12:53 PM
I wonder who is 'exciting' CC that we could get for £1800pw?

Don Giovanni
27-05-2011, 01:06 PM
It's imperative that we balance the books. If the wages/turnover ratio is 68% then we must get the wages figure DOWN.

Yes, we need to aim for a more sustainable wage to income ratio. That could also be achieved by increasing revenue rather than trying to attract lesser quality.

With the prospect of significant outside investment being very unlikely, our commercial team have thier work cut out for them.

Also, the board and manager need to deliver a team worth watching as it has been shown before that good/successful football attracts a larger crowd (therefore increasing revenue).

If we absolutely must reduce the wages may I suggest starting in the boardroom...?

ScottB
27-05-2011, 01:06 PM
When I go along to easter road on a Saturday, operating losses are not my main concern. Couldn't care less about them. I'll bet you Petrie and Farmer's wallets haven't made any operating losses.

I'm a football fan and want to see a decent competitive team on the park. At the minute we have a few decent youths, but just don't seem to have the experience/class to compliment it. That will require investment in the team, which should in turn increase season ticket sales, and make a dent in the 'operating loss' or that too simplistic. Coupled with a board with some foresight to make bold and inventive plans to increase revenue, things should improve. (They take enough out of the club in wages for fans to at least expect that). The poster who talks about performance related pay for the board has a point.

If you want there to be a club to go watch in the future, then of course the financial side is of concern. Just because Hearts are managing to exist in financial fantasy land doesn't mean we can.

Question, you say investment in the team or a better team will drive up attendances. Well we were hardly packing the stands under Mowbray were we? We've been losing £2million a season in recent years, where do you propose this extra cash comes from?

Love this vague 'the Board need an inventive plan' type stuff on here recently. Anyone care to make an actual suggestion at that? There isn't some vast untapped market of Hibs fans out there that will ever come to games, granted there are more out there than are turning up at the moment, but given that under Mowbray we were playing the best stuff we are likely to ever see at ER in the short term at least, there weren't queues round the block to get in.

If Motherwell, ICT and the like can pay a hell of a lot less in wages and finish higher than us, this idea that we need to throw money at the problem is a myth. We've probably signed more players than anyone else over the last 2 or 3 seasons (at least 30 odd by my count).


CC's strategy of a smaller squad is the way forward, more of our resources focused on fewer players.

Peevemor
27-05-2011, 01:07 PM
I wonder who is 'exciting' CC that we could get for £1800pw?

Who cares? - as long as he can tell jokes.

MrSmith
27-05-2011, 01:16 PM
I wonder who is 'exciting' CC that we could get for £1800pw?


As far as I can make out, he is fairly depressed now because the striker has gone elsewhere like most of our other signing targets......

Spike Mandela
27-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Who cares? - as long as he can tell jokes.

:greengrin:aok:

down the slope
27-05-2011, 01:34 PM
It's imperative that we balance the books. If the wages/turnover ratio is 68% then we must get the wages figure DOWN.

Yes that might mean we attract lower quality players in the short term, but at least we secure the long-term future of the Club.

In the first division. Which reduces the crowds even more and the quality is lowered ....need i go on ?. W are not an accounting exercise but you would not think that by the way we are run , we will only progress when we are run by a board that understands football.

ancient hibee
27-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Let's say we're at £6m turnover this year.

Let's say wages are 60% of that = £3.6m

Let's say that playing staff (not board, not coaching, not admin, not club shop, not catering, not EM staff) is 70% of £3.6m = £2.52m

Then lets say there are 24 players to share out that £2.52m on.

Let's say they are all paid the same amount = £105,000 a year each or £2,019 per week.

And that's on generous estimates.

We need Caversham Green for accuracy of calculations.
I've got an even better idea -let's not say-because it's all a load of tosh.

Anyway I know for a FACT that a new face is joining the Board.A mate told me so it must be true.His name is Baldrick and he seems to have a lot of cunning plans.

PaulSmith
27-05-2011, 01:53 PM
Why does everyone always have a moan about STF, he saved us and continues to service our debt, not bad for someone who doesnt even like football that much

He does not service our debt and has not for several years.
These are paid from the football club income.

joebakerforever
27-05-2011, 01:54 PM
If you want there to be a club to go watch in the future, then of course the financial side is of concern. Just because Hearts are managing to exist in financial fantasy land doesn't mean we can.

Question, you say investment in the team or a better team will drive up attendances. Well we were hardly packing the stands under Mowbray were we? We've been losing £2million a season in recent years, where do you propose this extra cash comes from?

Love this vague 'the Board need an inventive plan' type stuff on here recently. Anyone care to make an actual suggestion at that? There isn't some vast untapped market of Hibs fans out there that will ever come to games, granted there are more out there than are turning up at the moment, but given that under Mowbray we were playing the best stuff we are likely to ever see at ER in the short term at least, there weren't queues round the block to get in.

If Motherwell, ICT and the like can pay a hell of a lot less in wages and finish higher than us, this idea that we need to throw money at the problem is a myth. We've probably signed more players than anyone else over the last 2 or 3 seasons (at least 30 odd by my count).


CC's strategy of a smaller squad is the way forward, more of our resources focused on fewer players.

Which conveniently ignores the other side of the equation, namely the number who have left, and the transfer income received

ScottB
27-05-2011, 02:04 PM
Which conveniently ignores the other side of the equation, namely the number who have left, and the transfer income received

How does it? We've had no choice but to do that in order to finance the expense levels we have.

In any case, I don't care what level of cloud cuckoo land anybody might be on, we'd never have kept the likes of Fletcher, Brown et all long term, we sold them all at a good price. The problem with that strategy is the large gap that seemed to pop up in our youth system which now seems to be kicking in again thankfully.

We'll never be able to buy in a Scott Brown or a Steven Fletcher, our strategy needs to be producing these guys ourselves and pairing them with an experienced core. Our current issue largely stems from there being a few years of little to no youth players coming through, forcing us to pack the squad with journeymen.

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 02:10 PM
Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.

DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.

SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.

ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.

The other 4 teams. Agree with you.

Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.

STF at Hibs, wee all have to be grateful for what the man has done for the club, but has he ever put money in to help the team at any time.

Lets take Celtic and Rangers seperately as they are in a completely different world financially to the rest of us. Craig Whyte has said he will put £5M a yer up for transfers. 1st question is this his own money or money from the football club? Secondly as of yet there has been no proof of this as of yet, time will tell. The Desmond and Keane deal is fair enough but that was a short term deal to appease a restless support. One of the biggest complaints amongst Celtic fans over the last 2 or 3 years has been that they haven't taken advantage of Rangers situation and spent to push on and leave them behind, most of them lay the blame at the door of Desmond.

More interesting to Hibs though is Dundee Utd and Aberdeen.

Dundee Utd:

I grant you Eddie Thompson put in decent money. What was the return? A cup win, European football twice i think and another final. Is any of that significantly better than what Hibs have done in the last 5 years? It's also worth noting my main point which was that the CURRENT chairman is slashing costs all over the place hence the exodus of many of the squad from the last couple of seasons.

Aberdeen:

Probably the ultimate example of the whole 'speculate to accumulate' myth going wrong. Aberdeen and Milne in the 90s spent huge sums of money, circa £1M on footballing superstar Paul Bernard, and have absolutely zero to show for it. They had to tighten the purse strings but the damage is done. Debt around the £20M mark and no plan other than to sell their ground and hope the council with one of the biggest debts in Britain will come up with money to finance a ground in the middle of nowhere.

It's easy for people to scaremonger and point to the Leeds or Portsmouths of the world to show what happens to badly run football club but i'd say a glance a hundred or so miles north should make people a bit wary of what happens when clubs try to spend what they don't have.

Spike Mandela
27-05-2011, 02:10 PM
How does it? We've had no choice but to do that in order to finance the expense levels we have.

In any case, I don't care what level of cloud cuckoo land anybody might be on, we'd never have kept the likes of Fletcher, Brown et all long term, we sold them all at a good price. The problem with that strategy is the large gap that seemed to pop up in our youth system which now seems to be kicking in again thankfully.

We'll never be able to buy in a Scott Brown or a Steven Fletcher, our strategy needs to be producing these guys ourselves and pairing them with an experienced core. Our current issue largely stems from there being a few years of little to no youth players coming through, forcing us to pack the squad with journeymen.

Exactly. The idea we were always going to manage to bring through the amount of players we had around the Mowbray/Collins era was always fanciful.

Might be 10 -20 years before you land lucky with another crop like that. More likely it wil be the drip feed of people like Hanlon and Booth that will make the step up every few years.

leith_hibs
27-05-2011, 02:11 PM
Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.

DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.

SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.

ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.

The other 4 teams. Agree with you.

Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.

STF at Hibs, wee all have to be grateful for what the man has done for the club, but has he ever put money in to help the team at any time.


STF said right at the start he would not put his own money in and the club would operate the way it has done all these years.

The Sauzee, Latapy era....well come on guys it was vital the club got back into the SPL at the first time of asking...(financial) so buying to weaken the oppositition was needed as wells as adding the Sauzee and Latapys of the game.....Celtic and Rangers do it to any club in the SPL so they maintain Champions League football and successes, (Riordan, Thomson, Brown, Whitty).

My main frustration is when we had the likes of DR, KT, SB, SW all these guys were asking for was a wee bit more in their pay packet to stay on for a couple more years and win things with Hibs and the board chickened out.

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 02:14 PM
STF said right at the start he would not put his own money in and the club would operate the way it has done all these years.

The Sauzee, Latapy era....well come on guys it was vital the club got back into the SPL at the first time of asking...(financial) so buying to weaken the oppositition was needed as wells as adding the Sauzee and Latapys of the game.....Celtic and Rangers do it to any club in the SPL so they maintain Champions League football and successes, (Riordan, Thomson, Brown, Whitty).

My main frustration is when we had the likes of DR, KT, SB, SW all these guys were asking for was a wee bit more in their pay packet to stay on and win things with Hibs and the board chickened out.

Scott Brown was fully aware £25K a week was on offer at Celtic. Are you seriosuly suggesting he would have turned that down for 'a wee bit more in his pay packet at Hibs'?

leith_hibs
27-05-2011, 02:18 PM
Yes, for the chance to play down south for 35k 40k per year graduating from a successful team.

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 02:21 PM
Yes, for the chance to play down south for 35k 40k per year graduating from a successful team.

Absolute nonsense.

Brown only quietened down after the whole transfer request scenario and the bother with KT because he knew fine well he would be allowed to leave at the end of the season.

There were other interested parties, he wanted to go west.

leith_hibs
27-05-2011, 02:27 PM
If you believe tht to be the case....and the interest from the teams that lie in the bottom half or championship....

They went west to win things something they couldn't do with the clubs that were interested at the time.

All they wanted was a couple grand more in their pay packet and they would've stayed on till bigger clubs came in.

But as i say if you believe that to be the case then so be it, a know what i believe.

The board at the time bricked it.

Speedway
27-05-2011, 02:27 PM
I've got an even better idea -let's not say-because it's all a load of tosh.

Anyway I know for a FACT that a new face is joining the Board.A mate told me so it must be true.His name is Baldrick and he seems to have a lot of cunning plans.

Ok, let's ignore it and bang on about how we should be buying quality and should loosen the purse strings instead.


Absolute nonsense.

Brown only quietened down after the whole transfer request scenario and the bother with KT because he knew fine well he would be allowed to leave at the end of the season.

There were other interested parties, he wanted to go west.

Brown had two offers, one from Reading and one from Cleptic. The transfer fees were the same, the money was better at Reading, he went to Celtic where he would have gone if Reading had offered £40k a week.

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 02:32 PM
If you believe tht to be the case....and the interest from the teams that lie in the bottom half or championship....
They went west to win things something they couldn't do with the clubs that were interested at the time.

All they wanted was a couple grand more in their pay packet and they would've stayed on till bigger clubs came in.

But as i say if you believe that to be the case then so be it, a know what i believe.

The board at the time bricked it.

The other interested party was Reading, who were in the Premier League at the time and as Speedway has said below they offered more than Celtic yet Brown still made the decision to go to Glasgow.

Surely playing for a team in the Premier League is more likely to lead to a move to a top team than playing for Celtic. For examples see Charlie Adam and James McCarthy, both of whom are now attracting interest from big clubs having learned the English game at Blackpool and Wigan respectively.

Who was the last player to move directly from an SPL side to a top half EPL side by the way?

leith_hibs
27-05-2011, 02:35 PM
The other interested party was Reading, who were in the Premier League at the time and as Speedway has said below they offered more than Celtic yet Brown still made the decision to go to Glasgow.

Surely playing for a team in the Premier League is more likely to lead to a move to a top team than playing for Celtic. For examples see Charlie Adam and James McCarthy, both of whom are now attracting interest from big clubs having learned the English game at Blackpool and Wigan respectively.

Who was the last player to move directly from an SPL side to a top half EPL side by the way?



Charlie Adam and Jame McCarthy - to inconsistant and will just make up the numbers due to their inconsistances.

was it Liam Miller?

Speedway
27-05-2011, 02:36 PM
The other interested party was Reading, who were in the Premier League at the time and as Speedway has said below they offered more than Celtic yet Brown still made the decision to go to Glasgow.

Surely playing for a team in the Premier League is more likely to lead to a move to a top team than playing for Celtic. For examples see Charlie Adam and James McCarthy, both of whom are now attracting interest from big clubs having learned the English game at Blackpool and Wigan respectively.

Who was the last player to move directly from an SPL side to a top half EPL side by the way?

I'm struggling with that one...

Fletcher - nope
Caldwell - nope
Gordon - nope
Berra - nope
Bednar - nope
Callum Davidson?
Chris Dailly?

Speedway
27-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Liam Miller?

How many years ago was that?

Did he make more than 30 appearances?

Saorsa
27-05-2011, 02:39 PM
If you want there to be a club to go watch in the future, then of course the financial side is of concern. Just because Hearts are managing to exist in financial fantasy land doesn't mean we can.

Question, you say investment in the team or a better team will drive up attendances. Well we were hardly packing the stands under Mowbray were we? We've been losing £2million a season in recent years, where do you propose this extra cash comes from?

Love this vague 'the Board need an inventive plan' type stuff on here recently. Anyone care to make an actual suggestion at that? There isn't some vast untapped market of Hibs fans out there that will ever come to games, granted there are more out there than are turning up at the moment, but given that under Mowbray we were playing the best stuff we are likely to ever see at ER in the short term at least, there weren't queues round the block to get in.

If Motherwell, ICT and the like can pay a hell of a lot less in wages and finish higher than us, this idea that we need to throw money at the problem is a myth. We've probably signed more players than anyone else over the last 2 or 3 seasons (at least 30 odd by my count).


CC's strategy of a smaller squad is the way forward, more of our resources focused on fewer players.Exactly, we werenae selling out with the best product on the park in the last 30 years. Maybe that's when this board should have learned that perhaps the arenae 16,000 Hibs fans that want tae pay over £400 quid every season tae watch what is on offer in the SPL, never mind Hibs. Instead they spent however many Millions adding an additional 3000 seats tae the ones they already couldnae (and are never likely tae) sell and put just about the worst product in 30 odd years on the park and the crowds are getting smaller.

Nice Stadium, shame about the crowds and the team.

Pretty Boy
27-05-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm struggling with that one...

Fletcher - nope
Caldwell - nope
Gordon - nope
Berra - nope
Bednar - nope
Callum Davidson?
Chris Dailly?

I'm not totally sure either.

Best guess would be Carlos Cuellar as i'm sure Aston Villa were a top 6 or 7 team when he went down from Rangers.

leith_hibs
27-05-2011, 02:44 PM
How many years ago was that?

Did he make more than 30 appearances?




Many moons ago to Man Utd.

Doubt it and if he did it would be reserve team appearance

silverhibee
27-05-2011, 03:23 PM
Why does everyone always have a moan about STF, he saved us and continues to service our debt, not bad for someone who doesnt even like football that much

Who is moaning.

joebakerforever
27-05-2011, 03:27 PM
I'm struggling with that one...

Fletcher - nope
Caldwell - nope
Gordon - nope
Berra - nope
Bednar - nope
Callum Davidson?
Chris Dailly?

Alan Hutton Huns to Spurs
Before Cuellar, Petrov - Smellies to Villa (not sure if top half)

sesoim
27-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Hibs have made an operating loss in the region of £2M in each of the last couple of years (before any slump in ST sales). Where's the extra money going to come from?


Weren't some of the operating costs that produced that loss to do with building the new stand? Petrie said something about "ringfencing" money each season back then. I haven't looked at the accounts long enough to see any details of this, but we could have been putting aside a considerable amount each season for this. If not, then the expenditure of the club has crept up way too much lately given the rubbish we've had to watch.

sesoim
27-05-2011, 05:33 PM
:agree: Shiploads.

I read it on here.


What STF makes is hypothetical until he sells the club. I'm sure he only paid a couple of million for us back in 1990/91, so if he sold us for £20M tomorrow then that would certainly have been a good deal for him.

sesoim
27-05-2011, 05:48 PM
Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.

DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.

SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.

ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.

The other 4 teams. Agree with you.

Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.

STF at Hibs, wee all have to be grateful for what the man has done for the club, but has he ever put money in to help the team at any time.


Rangers and Celtic are pretty irrelevant as they are miles bigger than everybody else, and Hearts' are still happy to overspend no matter what their debt is, so we can't match them either (until yin and yan balances itself out and they nosedive in flames of debt).

Aberdeen are also in big debt so any money they have spent has not been a gift from the chairman - the debt is still there. Their crowds are lower than us and they need to save money for a new stadium so we should be able to outbid them.

Eddie Thompson wrote off £5M of debt a few years ago to secure Dundee Utd's position, but no way will they be paying better wages than us when they only get 7k to 8k crowds, even with their good cup runs. They wont allow the debt to grow again.

As for the rest, they get average crowds of 6k, 5k, 4k, 3k and less. If we can't put a better team on the park than them then the money the fans are putting into the club is getting severely neglected.

Unless CC bollocks up his signings and fails again to get the best out of the squad, I really can't see how we can't be up in or near the top four next season. But then again, when have Hibs ever lived up to their potential?

sesoim
27-05-2011, 05:51 PM
I wonder who is 'exciting' CC that we could get for £1800pw?


The figures suggest our average player is paid around £2k, and we are shipping out loads of players, so really we should be able to afford 3 or 4 new players on wages of £4k to £5k a week. We initially got Sauzee on £3k a week, albeit back in 1999, but if we could pull off a couple of signing gems like him and Latapy, who knows?

ancient hibee
27-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Weren't some of the operating costs that produced that loss to do with building the new stand? Petrie said something about "ringfencing" money each season back then. I haven't looked at the accounts long enough to see any details of this, but we could have been putting aside a considerable amount each season for this. If not, then the expenditure of the club has crept up way too much lately given the rubbish we've had to watch.
No -the operating loss is mainly the difference between money in and out nothing to do with the cost of the stand other than the interest on the debt.

.Sean.
28-05-2011, 04:59 AM
Shaun Maloney - Sellick to Villa. Back with his tail between his legs soon after.

The Falcon
28-05-2011, 06:25 AM
Yes, for the chance to play down south for 35k 40k per year graduating from a successful team.

What if he'd broken his leg before he "graduated"?

SmokieJoe
28-05-2011, 07:59 AM
CC/the club have already said they're looking to reduce the size of first team squad with a view to inceasing the quality. What bit of that don't you understand?

Do you think that Palsson, for example, chose to come to ER from Liverpool for low wages?

:agree:
Thats probibly why he is on a shorter contract just now untill money is freed up with the exodus. Guys like Palsson will get longer deals and wage increases the merit with their performances.

TornadoHibby
28-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Yes - we pay VAT - but we can offset input VAT also. We only pay the net difference.

Aye but with wages at 68% of turnover, the VAT account will be showing payments due to HMRC of significant amounts as wages do not attract VAT and that must be the largest component of the costs side of the P&L account so there won't be much to offset!! :wink:

£7milion turnover will generate a VAT bill of around £1.4 million to HMRC as the figures reported in the annual accounts will not include VAT. :wink:

Gala Foxes
28-05-2011, 08:56 AM
Dickoh has got a brass neck looking for a pay rise after his performances last season, particularly the shambles at Tannadice & against Accies at Easter Road. He is a bomb scare in defence who would not be missed

RickyS
28-05-2011, 09:05 AM
Dickoh has got a brass neck looking for a pay rise after his performances last season, particularly the shambles at Tannadice & against Accies at Easter Road. He is a bomb scare in defence who would not be missed

agree wi you mate, central defence really worries me for next season

Kaiser1962
28-05-2011, 09:49 AM
What STF makes is hypothetical until he sells the club. I'm sure he only paid a couple of million for us back in 1990/91, so if he sold us for £20M tomorrow then that would certainly have been a good deal for him.

What makes you think we are worth £20m?

RIP
28-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Other SPL football chairmen are footy men who dig into their personal fortunes to sign players


Who are these chairmen/owners?
* Craig Whyte at rangers - Remains to be seen.
* Dermot Desmond at Celtic - Has put money into the club in the past but they now live within their means.
*Stewart Milne at Aberdeen - Nope.
* Stephen Thompson at Dundee Utd - Major cost cutting going on at Tannadice.
* John Boyle at Motherwell - Put money in to help out the financial crisis but money to lavish on players - Nope!
* Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, ICT, Dunfermilne etc etc - No.
* The only one who may do is Vlad but no one really knows what is going on at Tynecastle financially.
* So i think we can conclude that your claim is, to put it bluntly, nonsense.


* Craig Whyte. Says he will put £5m each year for players for the next five years, that will be on top of the ST sales.
* DD at celtc. Splashed his own cash to get Robbie Keane on loan.
* SM at Dons. Has pumped his money in to the squad before, but yes that seems to have stopped.
* ST at D. Utd. His dad also pumped a few quid in to the team, yes cost cutting going on but i think they will pay a better wage than Hibs in the new season.
* Vlad. He still seems to get players in even though they are in so much debt.


Nonsense eh? Boyle at Well reckons he's put in £10million. Yorkston and Masterton at East End Park have paid wages. Brown at McDiarmid too. A buddies fan I know reckons Gilmour's lost a fortune at Paisley to get them on an even keel. Often they can offer houses or tax incentives - particularly the housebuilders, builders, accountants, solicitors

I wasn't proposing Chairmen should top up wages or offer incentives - but I'm sure we acknowledge that they did in the past. Maybe just for not much longer

Don Giovanni
28-05-2011, 10:37 AM
agree wi you mate, central defence really worries me for next season

Yep, me tae.

CC has quite correctly identified that we need to bolster the attacking options. I just hope that is not at the expense of bringing in quality at the back as well.

Would be quite happy to see the back of Dickoh - don't think he has what it takes to be an SPL centre half. Im not convinced by Hanlon either. Yes, the laddie has potential but he needs to start realising that talent - he should start by toughening up.

Here's hoping that CC is the man to get the best out of Paul & that he can recruit a dominant, nasty big ******** of a centre back to play alongside him (actually two of those types would do nicely)

new malkyhib
28-05-2011, 11:34 PM
The other interested party was Reading, who were in the Premier League at the time and as Speedway has said below they offered more than Celtic yet Brown still made the decision to go to Glasgow.

Surely playing for a team in the Premier League is more likely to lead to a move to a top team than playing for Celtic. For examples see Charlie Adam and James McCarthy, both of whom are now attracting interest from big clubs having learned the English game at Blackpool and Wigan respectively.

Who was the last player to move directly from an SPL side to a top half EPL side by the way?

So why was he not sold to Reading if they were the highest bidder then?

The Falcon
29-05-2011, 07:00 AM
:agree:
Thats probibly why he is on a shorter contract just now untill money is freed up with the exodus. Guys like Palsson will get longer deals and wage increases the merit with their performances.

He is on a shorter contract because that's what he wanted. He has confidence in his ability and, I would imagine the thinkng is that, by playing for Hibs other (bigger, wealthier) clubs would be able to see how good he was and would come calling with offers.

The shorter his contract the nore control the player (and his agent) have over the situation. There is very little Hibs can do about this.

The Falcon
29-05-2011, 07:03 AM
So why was he not sold to Reading if they were the highest bidder then?

When the transfer fee was met it was up to the player where he wanted to go. Brown chose Celtic.