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View Full Version : Sectarianism on jeremy Vine BBC Radio 2 just now



easty
25-05-2011, 12:32 PM
I just turned it on, first person I hear is, I presume, a Rangers fan and it's all Lennons fault apparantly.

Pretty Boy
25-05-2011, 01:44 PM
I just turned it on, first person I hear is, I presume, a Rangers fan and it's all Lennons fault apparantly.

:agree:

Everything is Neil Lennons fault.

No one ever shouted anything nasty at Martin O'Neill don't you know?

hibsbollah
25-05-2011, 01:48 PM
To be fair, a significant proportion of posters on here seem to think its all lennons fault as well.

basehibby
25-05-2011, 01:51 PM
:agree:

Everything is Neil Lennons fault.

No one ever shouted anything nasty at Martin O'Neill don't you know?

:agree: I'm furious at Lennon cos my car's broken down - I will now have to WALK to B&Q to purchase parts for his latest improvised explosive device :fuming:

NORTHERNHIBBY
25-05-2011, 01:59 PM
I just turned it on, first person I hear is, I presume, a Rangers fan and it's all Lennons fault apparantly.

But isn't that the whole issue one one sentence?

It is Neil Lennon's fault because he is a Catholic?

Anything he does all ties back to him being a Catholic.

And in some people's eyes there is no way back from that?:rolleyes:

Hibernia Na Eir
25-05-2011, 02:07 PM
Heard BBC radio this morning. New laws coming out stamping down hard on bigots. Have we not heard all this before?

Increasing sentences is great. But it STILL wont stop them.

Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"

It'll never end.

iwasthere1972
25-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Heard BBC radio this morning. New laws coming out stamping down hard on bigots. Have we not heard all this before?

Increasing sentences is great. But it STILL wont stop them.

Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"

It'll never end.

Best solution would be sprinklers. :aok:

Rougier45
25-05-2011, 02:18 PM
Neil Lennon is the kind of guy opponents will hate he doesnt shirk a challenge--Good luck to him he does not deserve the secterian abuse lots of catholics get in our country.

easty
25-05-2011, 02:20 PM
Heard BBC radio this morning. New laws coming out stamping down hard on bigots. Have we not heard all this before?

Increasing sentences is great. But it STILL wont stop them.

Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"

It'll never end.

They don't have to arrest them I suppose, they could issue on the spot fines. If you're sitting up the back of a crowd and singing away then you'll maybe get away with it, down they front you'll be caught, fined and maybe think twice next time, so the next time it'll be those the next row up who will be caught and they'll maybe think better next time, and so on.

It's not going to be easy to deal with but just because somethings difficult doesnt mean we shouldnt bother.

dangermouse
25-05-2011, 02:21 PM
Best solution would be sprinklers. :aok:

Containing concentrated sulphuric acid :greengrin

Dan Sarf
25-05-2011, 02:37 PM
Containing concentrated sulphuric acid :greengrin

Soap, surely?

JimBHibees
25-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Heard BBC radio this morning. New laws coming out stamping down hard on bigots. Have we not heard all this before?

Increasing sentences is great. But it STILL wont stop them.

Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"

It'll never end.

Of course it will end if there is concerted action taken by police, clubs, councils, government, schools, Football authorities both here and abroad. When UEFA first took interest in what Rangers fans were singing the songs stopped almost at once. This needs to happen again this time with action and not inaction from authorities closer to home.

JimBHibees
25-05-2011, 03:14 PM
They don't have to arrest them I suppose, they could issue on the spot fines. If you're sitting up the back of a crowd and singing away then you'll maybe get away with it, down they front you'll be caught, fined and maybe think twice next time, so the next time it'll be those the next row up who will be caught and they'll maybe think better next time, and so on.

It's not going to be easy to deal with but just because somethings difficult doesnt mean we shouldnt bother.

Clubs could identify people in the crowd if they wanted to.

basehibby
25-05-2011, 03:19 PM
Heard BBC radio this morning. New laws coming out stamping down hard on bigots. Have we not heard all this before?

Increasing sentences is great. But it STILL wont stop them.

Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"

It'll never end.

Dock the clubs points and it'll stop overnight - it's a very obvious solution which the SFA/SPL are unfortunately too craven to even contemplate.

easty
25-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Dock the clubs points and it'll stop overnight - it's a very obvious solution which the SFA/SPL are unfortunately too craven to even contemplate.

Can't you just imagine Lennon on the front of The Sun claiming Rangers fans were posing as Celtic fans and singing sectarian stuff to get them docked points as part of the ongoing conspiracy against the best club in the world.

silverhibee
25-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Dock the clubs points and it'll stop overnight - it's a very obvious solution which the SFA/SPL are unfortunately too craven to even contemplate.


:top marks :agree:


If the SFA could only grow a pair and start docking points from the teams that sing these songs then wee wouldn't hear them again at football grounds, the clubs would be quick enough to weed out the offenders very quickly and ban them from there grounds. :aok:

HibbyAndy
25-05-2011, 03:38 PM
:top marks :agree:


If the SFA could only grow a pair and start docking points from the teams that sing these songs then wee wouldn't hear them again at football grounds, the clubs would be quick enough to weed out the offenders very quickly and ban them from there grounds. :aok:


Thats far too sensible tho :rolleyes:

c31
25-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Dock the clubs points and it'll stop overnight - it's a very obvious solution which the SFA/SPL are unfortunately too craven to even contemplate.

I don't think that would bother them too much they both finished 29/30 ahead of the rest and docking them 25 points wouldn't matter to them - make them play behind closed doors and deny them TV revenue and I bet the issue would disappear overnight.

It's all about cash hit them in the pocket is they only thing that would harm them

Greentinted
25-05-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't think that would bother them too much they both finished 29/30 ahead of the rest and docking them 25 points wouldn't matter to them - make them play behind closed doors and deny them TV revenue and I bet the issue would disappear overnight.

It's all about cash hit them in the pocket is they only thing that would harm them


The rest don't matter to them but each other do, when the title goes down to a margin of one or two points and three are being docked - that would sort it out pronto. (or the masses of missing-links would be to blame for losing the league)

Keith_M
25-05-2011, 05:56 PM
Revel Alviston(sic?) hit it on the head by saying "how can the police possibly go in and arrest 2,000 fans singing sectarian songs?"



Just keep arresting people until they shut up. If the numbers are too great, eject them from the ground, a couple at a time.

I fail to see how it's that difficult.

Barney McGrew
25-05-2011, 06:00 PM
What's the point of increasing the length of sentences when they're not bothering to arrest people for doing it just now?

greenlex
25-05-2011, 06:09 PM
Don't dock them points just horse them out the competition. END OFF

Kojock
25-05-2011, 06:30 PM
Dock the clubs points and it'll stop overnight - it's a very obvious solution which the SFA/SPL are unfortunately too craven to even contemplate.


Great idea, then Celtc will claim its a conspiracy and that Rangers supporters had infiltrated their crowd in order for them to lose points. :rolleyes:

Kojock
25-05-2011, 06:33 PM
I don't think that would bother them too much they both finished 29/30 ahead of the rest and docking them 25 points wouldn't matter to them - make them play behind closed doors and deny them TV revenue and I bet the issue would disappear overnight.

It's all about cash hit them in the pocket is they only thing that would harm them

That is the only way to hurt them. Tell them if they dont stop the Sectarian singing / chanting then their games will no longer be televised. Let them try and get pitch advertising, shirt sponorship etc if they aint going to be on the telly.

zlatan
25-05-2011, 06:38 PM
Doncaster copped out last week and said whilst the clubs are trying to eradicate it then they'll never be done for sectarianism. So if a whole away end is filmed singing naughty songs, all the club has to do is issue a statement saying here don't do that again and they are fine.

SPL :aok:

JohnScott
26-05-2011, 06:53 PM
Just keep arresting people until they shut up. If the numbers are too great, eject them from the ground, a couple at a time.

I fail to see how it's that difficult.

Great post! Tom Hart sorted out our bigots with the help of other Hibs fans about 30 YEARS AGO. Lest we forget Hibs fans sang IRA songs back then too such as "Lord Mountbatten had a boat"! As a catholic (small c) myself I have to say Lennon does indeed bring on a lot of his troubles, though bombs and bullets in the post is way over the top. Martin O'Neill used to run up and down the touchline when they scored but he never got fans riled as much as Lennon.

One other thing though. If players brawl on the pitch or tunnel it's written off as handbags or expressing "passion" yet fans who do the same are described as thugs. How can you punish idiots for running onto the field when they continue to let players bait fans with cupped ears or fingers to lips. You get booked for celebrating with your own fans but its OK to run along a stand full of your opponents supporters basically taking the piss. Its not just the dwindling supports that need sorted. The game needs to take a look at itself too.

blueisthecolour
27-05-2011, 01:03 PM
Neil Lennon is the kind of guy opponents will hate he doesnt shirk a challenge--Good luck to him he does not deserve the secterian abuse lots of catholics get in our country.

Catholics are not the only ones in our country who get abuse.

hibsbollah
27-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Catholics are not the only ones in our country who get abuse.
You're quite right. Now **** off.

blueisthecolour
27-05-2011, 01:18 PM
You're quite right. Now **** off.

..... :rolleyes: feel better now :rolleyes:

Greentinted
27-05-2011, 01:20 PM
Catholics are not the only ones in our country who get abuse.

No but they do tend to be singled out by guys like this:


http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01315/SNA2411Q1-2801_1315538a.jpg

hibsbollah
27-05-2011, 01:43 PM
..... :rolleyes: feel better now :rolleyes:

just proving your point for you. ****ing ****face.

blueisthecolour
27-05-2011, 03:12 PM
just proving your point for you. ****ing ****face.

You are never 40 tell us your real age, or go back on topic.

Phil D. Rolls
27-05-2011, 04:13 PM
Neil Lennon is the kind of guy opponents will hate he doesnt shirk a challenge--Good luck to him he does not deserve the secterian abuse lots of catholics get in our country.

As long as people think it is a one sided issue, it will be a problem. To suggest that there is no bigotry against Protestants is wrong.

Iggy Pope
27-05-2011, 07:34 PM
Catholics are not the only ones in our country who get abuse.

Justr a wee reminder if you needed one. Bouncy bouncy........
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/05/27/sectarian-killer-jason-campbell-back-on-the-streets-after-15-years-for-schoolboy-s-murder-86908-23160290/

blueisthecolour
27-05-2011, 09:39 PM
Justr a wee reminder if you needed one. Bouncy bouncy........
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/05/27/sectarian-killer-jason-campbell-back-on-the-streets-after-15-years-for-schoolboy-s-murder-86908-23160290/

I don't know where you are coming from posting that, I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it's not only catholics it happens to.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/12/07/binman-was-beaten-with-shovel-in-sectarian-attack-at-rubbish-tip-86908-21878782/

The Harp
27-05-2011, 10:04 PM
I don't know where you are coming from posting that, I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it's not only catholics it happens to.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/12/07/binman-was-beaten-with-shovel-in-sectarian-attack-at-rubbish-tip-86908-21878782/

I don't think you getting involved on a thread such as this is a wise move - just my opinion of course.
For what's it's worth I'm not comfortable with the tragic story of this young man's murder being used to prove a point (I know it wasn't you who posted it).

Dr What If?
27-05-2011, 10:33 PM
I used to think it was all Rangers, protestant, anti catholic, etc. Then I went to catholic teacher training college through in Glasgow. I never know what bigotry was until that year in Glasgow. These trainee catholic teachers from the west were vile. Their views on protestants, the 'British', Rangers fans etc actually made me sick. There were plenty of foreign students studying there also and their opinions of 'us' were less than complementary and I could not blame them. I was embarraced to be both Scottish and catholic.
Bigotry is deep in our national consciousness, football is little more than a vehicle for this mutual hatred to be expressed in a 'safe' environment. I scares me to see the way bigotry has infested our neighbours support. A guy I've known for years and is a match attending Jambo now finds it acceptable to joke about 'papes going back to Ireland', he never used to talk like this and I actually avoid him now. Thankfully I still know others who are embarraced by this mob but it is growing and becoming more acceptable thanks to the vehicle of football.
Maybe increasing jail terns for bigots is not the final answer but it is a statement and it is a start. This is not a scab on Scotland, it is a deep, rotting cancer. We need surgery.

sesoim
28-05-2011, 02:41 AM
As long as people think it is a one sided issue, it will be a problem. To suggest that there is no bigotry against Protestants is wrong.


Celtic ARE just as bad. And they love to play the innocent victims, much like their republican countrymen have over the decades. Dare I say some Celtic fans even get a perverse enjoyment out of the whole Lennon thing because it makes them look better and Rangers look worse.

As far as I'm concerned they are two horrible clubs that have grown larger and larger out of hatred. If Celtic didn't exist, Rangers' crowds wouldn't have been hugely swelled by bigots. If Rangers didn't exist, Celtic wouldn't have gained so many Irish-Scots fans who feel they have a duty to show their solidarity with fellow Irish-decendants, often to antagonistic levels.

Davy Mac
28-05-2011, 06:57 AM
I used to think it was all Rangers, protestant, anti catholic, etc. Then I went to catholic teacher training college through in Glasgow. I never know what bigotry was until that year in Glasgow. These trainee catholic teachers from the west were vile. Their views on protestants, the 'British', Rangers fans etc actually made me sick. There were plenty of foreign students studying there also and their opinions of 'us' were less than complementary and I could not blame them. I was embarraced to be both Scottish and catholic.
Bigotry is deep in our national consciousness, football is little more than a vehicle for this mutual hatred to be expressed in a 'safe' environment. I scares me to see the way bigotry has infested our neighbours support. A guy I've known for years and is a match attending Jambo now finds it acceptable to joke about 'papes going back to Ireland', he never used to talk like this and I actually avoid him now. Thankfully I still know others who are embarraced by this mob but it is growing and becoming more acceptable thanks to the vehicle of football.
Maybe increasing jail terns for bigots is not the final answer but it is a statement and it is a start. This is not a scab on Scotland, it is a deep, rotting cancer. We need surgery.

:agree:

Excellent post and accurate too.

I also know a couple of jumbos and for whatever reason have gone down the same route.

For me it's all about education and sadly it seems you were let down but thankfully had the strength to see the bigger picture.

Kids from Glasgow in particular are not allowed to peep over the fence and see a different side to religion/Scotland, I'm lucky I've travelled all over Europe but without doubt we have some of the most beautiful landscapes, stunning culture, wonderful food, distilleries etc etc.

Unfortunately, we also have a rather bitter, rude and sectarian element which at times is just embarrassing.

These folk would get a nose bleed if they travelled beyond their local roundabout or Gretna Green/Berwick Upon Tweed, it's not until you are outside looking in you begin to see the problems.

Born in Scotland with Irish/English/Spanish ancestry (apparently) maybe I see things differently but we need strong leadership in Scotland but somehow I don't think Alex Salmond will be our saviour.

Phil D. Rolls
28-05-2011, 07:17 AM
I don't think you getting involved on a thread such as this is a wise move - just my opinion of course.
For what's it's worth I'm not comfortable with the tragic story of this young man's murder being used to prove a point (I know it wasn't you who posted it).

Surely it's better to hear opinion from both sides?


Celtic ARE just as bad. And they love to play the innocent victims, much like their republican countrymen have over the decades. Dare I say some Celtic fans even get a perverse enjoyment out of the whole Lennon thing because it makes them look better and Rangers look worse.

As far as I'm concerned they are two horrible clubs that have grown larger and larger out of hatred. If Celtic didn't exist, Rangers' crowds wouldn't have been hugely swelled by bigots. If Rangers didn't exist, Celtic wouldn't have gained so many Irish-Scots fans who feel they have a duty to show their solidarity with fellow Irish-decendants, often to antagonistic levels.

I think that both sides have to look closely at why they haven't been able to integrate. I agree that much of the Celtic folklore is maudlin, sentimental garbage. They love to sing songs about tragedies - like they are the only people who have ever suffered.


:agree:

Excellent post and accurate too.

I also know a couple of jumbos and for whatever reason have gone down the same route.

For me it's all about education and sadly it seems you were let down but thankfully had the strength to see the bigger picture.

Kids from Glasgow in particular are not allowed to peep over the fence and see a different side to religion/Scotland, I'm lucky I've travelled all over Europe but without doubt we have some of the most beautiful landscapes, stunning culture, wonderful food, distilleries etc etc.

Unfortunately, we also have a rather bitter, rude and sectarian element which at times is just embarrassing.

These folk would get a nose bleed if they travelled beyond their local roundabout or Gretna Green/Berwick Upon Tweed, it's not until you are outside looking in you begin to see the problems.

Born in Scotland with Irish/English/Spanish ancestry (apparently) maybe I see things differently but we need strong leadership in Scotland but somehow I don't think Alex Salmond will be our saviour.

I think it's more about small towns that have lost their status. A generation ago, a lot of these banana republics could take pride in the fact that they had a working pit. Now they have nothing, and desperately want to cling to something that they see as being worthy of self esteem.