PDA

View Full Version : Reasonable expectation level for coming season



Keith_M
20-05-2011, 07:45 PM
What are your expectations for season 2011/12?

I don't mean what you think will happen, rather what you think would be a reasonable level of expectation for Hibs this season, e.g. final league positions, etc, that would make you feel come the end of the season, "yep, that was a decent season".




Mine relates to derby games but I'll leave that till later.

Mon Dieu4
20-05-2011, 07:50 PM
It is reasonable to hope that Hibs with the finances at their desposal and their facilities should be in the hunt along with the Yams for 3rd place every single season.

For whatever reason, we seem unable to do this except every 5 years or so, it's not good enough really in my opinion.

Sir David Gray
20-05-2011, 07:54 PM
Getting into the top six should be the bare minimum, finishing in the bottom six for the second year in a row would just be totally unacceptable.

I'd also like to see us getting to Hampden in at least one of the cups.

Jim44
20-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Getting into the top six should be the bare minimum, finishing in the bottom six for the second year in a row would just be totally unacceptable.

I'd also like to see us getting to Hampden in at least one of the cups.

After the shocker we've had and the uncertainty about who's going and who might come in, I'd say a 'best of the bottom 6' would be a reasonable expectation.

NORTHERNHIBBY
20-05-2011, 08:01 PM
Bottom of the top six, and no cup exits to teams that are not in the SPL.

hibee92
20-05-2011, 08:10 PM
top six and hampden once (starting to forget what the place looks like).

SkintHibby
20-05-2011, 08:13 PM
Avoiding relegation is a reasonable expectation.

R'Albin
20-05-2011, 08:13 PM
Top six and. Hampden for me, pretty much same as everyone else. Or I would go as far as finishing 11th and winning the Scottish cup:greengrin

Dalianwanda
20-05-2011, 08:17 PM
Need to see who we sign...At the moment just top 6

Andy74
20-05-2011, 08:26 PM
We got 4th with crap players and a crap manager. I expect third now we have the right manager and his choice of new players.

Mikeystewart
20-05-2011, 08:29 PM
more the 37 points

James70
20-05-2011, 08:29 PM
Anything better than this season and a better standard of entertainment because without the crowds returning we will struggle.

IberianHibernian
20-05-2011, 08:38 PM
However we do resultwise , it`d be good to see a big improvement in play and level of entertainment but unless there are several big signings I can`t see that happening - more likely a safe but boring top 6 and little else . If we don`t finish in top 4 and entertain I`ll consider it another bad year though a cup final or two would help .

AlbertK86
20-05-2011, 08:44 PM
If Riordan and Miller leave a reasonable expectation would be at least 8 good signings -not all from SFL - will accept 1 poss 2 from there!! - 2 experienced no nonsense CHs, RB, another winger, creative midfielder and 3 strikers

If and that is a massive if that were to happen I would expect minimum of top six but no reason why third should be outwith our reach.

If we go down the route of the names suggested - IE Raith and Ross Co boys - as being targets expectation will be to avoid relegation.

Expectation in reality - Rod not to loosen strings and we are hanging on for dear life - especially if it ends up 3 teams being relegated.

ROD PROVE ME WRONG

HibsMax
20-05-2011, 08:44 PM
I'll answer this without looking at other people's threads so I don't get biased.

For me, a very reasonable expectation for next season is definitely Top Six. I know that seems like a low target but it's an improvement over this year and whether you like it or now, it's undeniably progress. It's difficult to say much more since we have no idea who the team is, but I will continue anyway....

The following are what I consider reasonable expectations from top to bottom.

The Board : The board gives the management team a nice wedge of cash for new players. How much is a nice wedge though?

Scouting : 80% of all new blood make a positive impact on the team, excluding players brought in for long-term development.

Management : Consistency. It's good to rotate players now and again but once the core is found, stick with it!

Results : Wins/Draws/Losses for 2010 = 10/7/21 (10th, 37 points). Let's try and win at least half our games e.g., 19/7/12 (3rd, 64 points). (based on 2010's final standings).

Goals : -22 goal difference. That's appalling. We need to get that back into the black.



So while I think that finishing Top Six is realistic, I hope for much more and I honestly don't think I'm being that unrealistic given the changes that are coming. My hope is that these changes will be for the good and that we catch other teams sleeping. Last season should be confined to the archives, never to be repeated for the foreseeable future.

2012/2013 - Splitting the Old Firm. :wink:

Lofarl
20-05-2011, 08:50 PM
I expect a treble at the very least. Anything else is a bonus.

HibsMax
20-05-2011, 08:52 PM
I expect a treble at the very least. Anything else is a bonus.

vodka? whisky? tequila?

hibbymark
20-05-2011, 09:13 PM
We could finish anywhere from 3rd ~ 10th. Motherwell, Dun utd, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen are in exactly the same boat . The teams other than Celtic and Rangers are so inconsistant from one season to the next that very few times over the years has a club regularly improved their league position yearly for any period of time. I think one of the main reasons for this is if Motherwell for example were to have a good season and finish 3/4 they would probably have to sell the players who had got them there like Dun utd and kilmarnock this year or indeed ourselves in previous years. With our budget/crowds I think the expectation should be top 6 every year challenging for europe and competing in the later stages of the cup competitions . Even with the season we have just had due to the standard of the league we should be expecting to do this imo.

erin go bragh
20-05-2011, 09:18 PM
Top four with a trip to hampden and a couple of wins against the pink mob :agree:
ggtth

PeterboroHibee
20-05-2011, 09:30 PM
After this season my expectations arent very high.

Rather than focusing on a certain postion, Id rather see actually improvement in areas of the team, that would allow us to then go for a certain target eg top 6.

Would like to see us have some stability, where we know our best 11 and things arent getting changed drastically nearly every week (especially the keeper, is ridiculous). Would like us to stop conceding daft goals through shocking defending, and feel confident that if we are maybe 1-0 up we can see the game out. Id like to see players who actually have some passion and fight, who arent going to get outplayed by teams who lets face it, we should be beating more often than not. Id like to see some real leadership in the team, someone who is going to organise and get in players faces if they arent pulling their weight.

Im also sick of seeing us getting put out of cups in the first round so thats something that needs to be looked at!

SaulGoodman
20-05-2011, 10:29 PM
Finishing Top


















Of the bottom 3 :wink:

essexhibee
20-05-2011, 10:37 PM
I think we will finish third from bottom this season. We lack any creativity and any real goal threat. Will be just about better than st mirren and better than dunfy who will go down for me. Wouldn't surprise me if we didn't beat the old firm all season with the current crop!!

HibeeSince85
20-05-2011, 10:37 PM
Every season should be top 4 and quarters of the cup for the size of club Hibs are.

We always underachieve though!

Don Giovanni
20-05-2011, 10:42 PM
With the 4th largest budget in the league we should be aiming for top 6 minimum & see how we go from there. Anything less is failure.

Calderwood has the enviable position of being able to dump most of the deadwood from previous regimes & trim a bloated squad. The majority of the squad going into next season should be his signings (plus youth team players). Over to you Colin...

skipster7
20-05-2011, 10:46 PM
top 6 but mostly a bit better football and actually looking like a team, not being rolled over by every opponent we meet.2 derby wins as well.

Andy74
20-05-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm thinking people don't rate CC. His team, no excuses though hardly anyone sees things changing. Interesting!

sleeping giant
21-05-2011, 12:11 AM
I expect at least 4th place next season. I will be starting the season looking to win it but i could settle for 4th if i could see we could push on from there.

Keith_M
21-05-2011, 06:45 AM
Top four with a trip to hampden and a couple of wins against the pink mob :agree:
ggtth



:thumbsup:

Make one of those wins in the SC Final and you're on!




Realistically, it sounds like I'm pretty much in line with everyone else. Top Six, don't get put out the Cup by a lower league team, couple of wins against Hearts and not too much eye bleeding football. Maybe even looking like we're at least challenging for a cup/europe in the latter stages of the season.

The Falcon
21-05-2011, 06:48 AM
It is reasonable to hope that Hibs with the finances at their desposal and their facilities should be in the hunt along with the Yams for 3rd place every single season.

For whatever reason, we seem unable to do this except every 5 years or so, it's not good enough really in my opinion.

What finances is that? Hearts spend double what we do so how does that equate?

Spike Mandela
21-05-2011, 06:49 AM
We appear to be on a downward spiral so hopefully 11th and not 12th.:hnet:

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 06:52 AM
We got 4th with crap players and a crap manager. I expect third now we have the right manager and his choice of new players.

Jesus Andy you're not going to let that go are you :greengrin

Realistically I would be happy if we made the top six and had a half decent run in one of the cups. Progress of any type really.

Season after that I would be looking to be pressing top four.

Keith_M
21-05-2011, 07:46 AM
We got 4th with crap players and a crap manager. I expect third now we have the right manager and his choice of new players.


That's great you've finally gotten over your fixation with Yogi and are now fully behind CC!



Well done :thumbsup:

NAE NOOKIE
21-05-2011, 10:36 AM
A top 4 finish.

At least a LC or SC semi final.

Two home wins against the Yams and at least one home win agains an OF team.

And a set of players who care as much about Hibs winning matches as we do.

If thats too high a standard to set we might as well pack it in.

GGTTH

:flag:

smurf
21-05-2011, 10:39 AM
I expect mid table mediocrity. This season we couldn't even achieve that....

Gatecrasher
21-05-2011, 10:50 AM
Top six and a good cup run

houston1875
21-05-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm thinking people don't rate CC. His team, no excuses though hardly anyone sees things changing. Interesting!

I don't rate him at all.

hibiedude
21-05-2011, 11:50 AM
As Fans we should expect a top 6 finish every season and a decent run in the cup games.

We have the Support- Stadium- Training ground to attract good players but the problem has alway been the wage cap.

If we want to be the 3rd force in Scottish football then the board have to play their part.

silverhibee
21-05-2011, 12:15 PM
We got 4th with crap players and a crap manager. I expect third now we have the right manager and his choice of new players.


Boring Boring Boring. Give it a rest eh. Yogi has gone get over it. :rolleyes:

Andy74
21-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Boring Boring Boring. Give it a rest eh. Yogi has gone get over it. :rolleyes:

Eh? Just setting out the expectation. We will have got rid of all the supposed problems so no reason at all this board should expect anything less than top four.

silverhibee
21-05-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm thinking people don't rate CC. His team, no excuses though hardly anyone sees things changing. Interesting!

Once again. BORING BORING BORING. :aok:

Beefster
21-05-2011, 12:23 PM
Eh? Just setting out the expectation. We will have got rid of all the supposed problems so no reason at all this board should expect anything less than top four.

Posting the same thing but using different words to do it is very clever, I'm sure, but pointless. Not that it will matter to you but, to me, you've gone from one of the posters who I used to enjoy reading, irrespective of whether I agreed or not, to one that I skim read as I scroll because I know what you'll be saying anyway.

Andy74
21-05-2011, 12:24 PM
Once again. BORING BORING BORING. :aok:

Want to point out where I am wrong then? Better manager, getting rid of crap players, a manager that can bring on his own team. Which part of that doesn't mean everyone's complaints havent been addressed and sorted?

What are the reasons we'd be less than fourth?

Andy74
21-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Posting the same thing but using different words to do it is very clever, I'm sure, but pointless. Not that it will matter to you but, to me, you've gone from one of the posters who I used to enjoy reading, irrespective of whether I agreed or not, to one that I skim read as I scroll because I know what you'll be saying anyway.
Are you only meant to hold or repeat you view if everyone agrees with it?

Okay. I may have misread this place for the last year.

We have a new manager and we will have a new team. Why no confidence that this will actually change things? Serious question.

silverhibee
21-05-2011, 12:30 PM
Eh? Just setting out the expectation. We will have got rid of all the supposed problems so no reason at all this board should expect anything less than top four.


How many times do you have to make the point though Andy, obviously you are not happy with JH losing his job, and unhappy that CC is the manager just now, lets see what happens over the summer and see who the new manager brings in for the new season ahead and give him our support. :aok:

cad
21-05-2011, 02:13 PM
As Fans we should expect a top 6 finish every season and a decent run in the cup games.

We have the Support- Stadium- Training ground to attract good players but the problem has alway been the wage cap.

If we want to be the 3rd force in Scottish football then the board have to play their part.




If the 3rd force in Scottish football costs money we wont climb that high
we didn't do particularly well last season ,transitional or not .
.

We are still a few Million pounds in debt ,the guy in charge cant / wont spend
,so its down to Colin and whatever magic he can work with the smaller squad and the new players ,watching from the East Stand last season he didn't impress me at all , so going on last years performances a top 6 finish would be a great achievement


If people see 3rd or 4th as a possibility I would loved to know what prompts such optimism .

hibiedude
21-05-2011, 02:48 PM
If the 3rd force in Scottish football costs money we wont climb that high
we didn't do particularly well last season ,transitional or not .
.

We are still a few Million pounds in debt ,the guy in charge cant / wont spend
,so its down to Colin and whatever magic he can work with the smaller squad and the new players ,watching from the East Stand last season he didn't impress me at all , so going on last years performances a top 6 finish would be a great achievement


If people see 3rd or 4th as a possibility I would loved to know what prompts such optimism .

We haven’t done particularly well over the few season, and building the new stand to increase the capacity was meant to bring in more revenue for the club.

The only thing that will bring in more revenue is if the product on the park is worth watching which at the moment isn’t worth the price of the ticket, if you’re being honest.

My opinion regarding reasonable expectations is expressed in my original reply- which is always to finish in the top 6 and have a decent run in Cup games.

And why has my username changed in your reply?

Beefster
21-05-2011, 02:48 PM
Are you only meant to hold or repeat you view if everyone agrees with it?

Okay. I may have misread this place for the last year.

We have a new manager and we will have a new team. Why no confidence that this will actually change things? Serious question.

I believe that Calderwood will improve the team. How fast that happens will depend on to what extent he has the backing of the board, finances-wise.

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 03:58 PM
I believe that Calderwood will improve the team. How fast that happens will depend on to what extent he has the backing of the board, finances-wise.

We keep coming back to this when we dont have any money. CC (i agree with you I believe he will improve the team) will get the same backing as other managers have had. He took the job on those conditions.

Invest, speculate to accumulate, build it and they will come, put a team on the park and they will come, call it what you will. If only it were that easy. Where's the money coming from? There is no such thing as a sure thing and its always a gamble. We have gambled on managers who claimed they could do it but, ultimately, couldnt and they gambled their budgets on players whose agents said they were the greatest, but weren't.

As a result we are £4m in debt and the only way out that is suggested, it would seem, is spend more money.

Everybody in football is trying the same thing and very very very (copyright Eastymeter) few have any modicum of success.

Beefster
21-05-2011, 04:01 PM
We keep coming back to this when we dont have any money. CC (i agree with you I believe he will improve the team) will get the same backing as other managers have had. He took the job on those conditions.

Invest, speculate to accumulate, build it and they will come, put a team on the park and they will come, call it what you will. If only it were that easy. Where's the money coming from? There is no such thing as a sure thing and its always a gamble. We have gambled on managers who claimed they could do it but, ultimately, couldnt and they gambled their budgets on players whose agents said they were the greatest, but weren't.

As a result we are £4m in debt and the only way out that is suggested, it would seem, is spend more money.

Everybody in football is trying the same thing and very very very (copyright Eastymeter) few have any modicum of success.

You've taken my post in completely the wrong way but if it let you get a few things off your chest, good stuff.

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 04:05 PM
You've taken my post in completely the wrong way.

I am actually of agreeing with you in my own useless way, but referring to other posts over the past wee while that are calling for money to be spent, and seeing conspiracies everywhere.

I apologise but in my defence I would say I used to play rugby as a prop and got punched on the head a lot. Probably explains everything actually.

Beefster
21-05-2011, 04:10 PM
I am actually of agreeing with you in my own useless way, but referring to other posts over the past wee while that are calling for money to be spent, and seeing conspiracies everywhere.

I apologise but in my defence I would say I used to play rugby as a prop and got punched on the head a lot. Probably explains everything actually.

My apologies for assuming that you were jumping on me!

Elephant Stone
21-05-2011, 04:12 PM
3rd or 4th and at least one trip to Hampden.

cad
21-05-2011, 05:00 PM
We haven’t done particularly well over the few season, and building the new stand to increase the capacity was meant to bring in more revenue for the club.

The only thing that will bring in more revenue is if the product on the park is worth watching which at the moment isn’t worth the price of the ticket, if you’re being honest.

My opinion regarding reasonable expectations is expressed in my original reply- which is always to finish in the top 6 and have a decent run in Cup games.

And why has my username changed in your reply?


Dont know whats happened with your user name hibiedude sorted it

IWasThere2016
21-05-2011, 05:35 PM
We got 4th with crap players and a crap manager. I expect third now we have the right manager and his choice of new players.

:faf:

Yogi - why weren't we 3rd when you left? :bye:

hibee1994
21-05-2011, 05:59 PM
With the amount of profit this club makes each year and it's stature, it's not un-reasonable to say that Hibernian should be the team to challenge the old firm. With the money we have, we should be mounting a challenge for third but instead we sell our best players and wait for new talent to arive so we can sell them.

We should be challenging for third every season and we should be challenging for atleast one cup a season but we arn't. Only time will tell if Calderwood can change our fortunes but we really need to have a manager for more than a year and if CC doesn't work out, i hope the board take a long time before making the decision on who to put in his place and don't get me wrong, my full support is with Calderwood.

HibeeMackenzie
21-05-2011, 06:01 PM
top six , in the semis of both cups, winning at least one - preferably the scottish

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 06:06 PM
With the amount of profit this club makes each year and it's stature, it's not un-reasonable to say that Hibernian should be the team to challenge the old firm. With the money we have, we should be mounting a challenge for third but instead we sell our best players and wait for new talent to arive so we can sell them.

We should be challenging for third every season and we should be challenging for atleast one cup a season but we arn't. Only time will tell if Calderwood can change our fortunes but we really need to have a manager for more than a year and if CC doesn't work out, i hope the board take a long time before making the decision on who to put in his place and don't get me wrong, my full support is with Calderwood.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? Seriously?

hibeesjoe
21-05-2011, 06:11 PM
Top 4 and a good cup run should be expected since it will be CC's team from next season

hibee1994
21-05-2011, 06:17 PM
Have you any idea what you are talking about? Seriously?

Well i'm quite young so probably not but i'm just saying that with the money we have, we should be able to get quality in but we can't. Im not saying we will challenge for third, infact bottom of top six is more reasonable but i think we ought to be challenging for that third place every year as i still consider us a bigger club than dundee united or motherwell.

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Well i'm quite young so probably not but i'm just saying that with the money we have, we should be able to get quality in but we can't. Im not saying we will challenge for third, infact bottom of top six is more reasonable but i think we ought to be challenging for that third place every year as i still consider us a bigger club than dundee united or motherwell.

The point is we dont have any money. We spend more money than we bring in.

hibee1994
21-05-2011, 06:34 PM
The point is we dont have any money. We spend more money than we bring in.

http://www.hibernian-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/hibs_announce_financial_report_for_200910_556385/index.shtml

according to this, hibernian FC had 4.1 million debt and 2.2 million in the bank last year not including the sale of Anthony Stokes and we still made profit although this is again last years report and i'm not sure whether the east stand's cost is figured in to balance or not.

cad
21-05-2011, 07:18 PM
With the amount of profit this club makes each year and it's stature, it's not un-reasonable to say that Hibernian should be the team to challenge the old firm. With the money we have, we should be mounting a challenge for third but instead we sell our best players and wait for new talent to arive so we can sell them.

We should be challenging for third every season and we should be challenging for atleast one cup a season but we arn't. Only time will tell if Calderwood can change our fortunes but we really need to have a manager for more than a year and if CC doesn't work out, i hope the board take a long time before making the decision on who to put in his place and don't get me wrong, my full support is with Calderwood.


Hibs are between a rock and a hard place financially still in debt to the the tune of £7 Mill I think ,no player worth a toss to sell ,cup runs cost us mega last year plus the Yogi pay off , off the amount Im not sure ,all in all we lost money left right and centre ,
"your money / profit the club makes baffles TBH "

Financially we dont have a pot to piss in ,survival and make do will be around us for years that and our wage cap .
We will get the odd bit of sugar to keep the fans happy Deek out Ivan etc ,
but I think the fans are wise to that ploy now Rod ,
Some of the players we have signed to carry us through have been not very good and no amount of encouragement and singing from the 12th man is going to resurrect most of those footballing careers .

Andy74
21-05-2011, 08:03 PM
How many times do you have to make the point though Andy, obviously you are not happy with JH losing his job, and unhappy that CC is the manager just now, lets see what happens over the summer and see who the new manager brings in for the new season ahead and give him our support. :aok:

I've said time and again CC has my support. Can't quite figure out what this place is thinking though. Strange that players and manager will have changed but people's expectations haven't.

It's not about harping back to Hughes. Honestly couldn't care less about him. It's about what we really want or expect and whether we as fans are actually improving things with our demands to change everything or ensuring we continue to underperform.

You'd think given the previous stances on here about managers and players that given they will all have gone the whole outlook should have changed.

Nando™
21-05-2011, 08:07 PM
Hampden was a home game not so long ago..

Resources etc should see us in the hunt for 3rd every year. Hearts, with their free money, should be our only challenger for this.

Top 6 next season would be a good upgrade from the ***** we're in now.

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 10:41 PM
http://www.hibernian-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/hibs_announce_financial_report_for_200910_556385/index.shtml

according to this, hibernian FC had 4.1 million debt and 2.2 million in the bank last year not including the sale of Anthony Stokes and we still made profit although this is again last years report and i'm not sure whether the east stand's cost is figured in to balance or not.


Yes we had £4m debt which is half our annual turnover. How high would you like that debt to go?

On average we make, before player sales, an operating loss of around £2m per season. Considering the season we have had I do not expect that debt to have reduced any this season.

Kaiser1962
21-05-2011, 10:44 PM
Hampden was a home game not so long ago..

Resources etc should see us in the hunt for 3rd every year. Hearts, with their free money, should be our only challenger for this.

Top 6 next season would be a good upgrade from the ***** we're in now.

Hearts spend more than double what we do, if thats the measure you are using. Celtic spend 9 times more than us and Rangers 8 times.

TPAKA
21-05-2011, 11:47 PM
After the shocker we've had and the uncertainty about who's going and who might come in, I'd say a 'best of the bottom 6' would be a reasonable expectation.

Ditto. I don't think the current squad have the guile and steel required to win games on a consistent basis and don't believe we have the necessary finances to get in any decent "quality" as such that would enable us to push on as required. Bottom six again and back to the agony the season brings and the apathy towards turning up to see the team.

I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong though. :agree:

Andy74
22-05-2011, 07:48 AM
Ditto. I don't think the current squad have the guile and steel required to win games on a consistent basis and don't believe we have the necessary finances to get in any decent "quality" as such that would enable us to push on as required. Bottom six again and back to the agony the season brings and the apathy towards turning up to see the team.

I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong though. :agree:

But our budget will still be fourth biggest and we have leeway to bring in the managers choices. If the wasters are away and we have a capable manager in why would it not be better?

We went from flying in third to some really poor form. We pretty quickly changed manager and have the opportunity to change the players. Surely flying in third again us what should happen next?

That's not a piss take, thats my expectation from what we've done in terms if our changes.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 08:34 AM
But our budget will still be fourth biggest and we have leeway to bring in the managers choices. If the wasters are away and we have a capable manager in why would it not be better?

We went from flying in third to some really poor form. We pretty quickly changed manager and have the opportunity to change the players. Surely flying in third again us what should happen next?

That's not a piss take, thats my expectation from what we've done in terms if our changes.

I think we're fifth Andy.

down the slope
22-05-2011, 09:07 AM
Yes we had £4m debt which is half our annual turnover. How high would you like that debt to go?

On average we make, before player sales, an operating loss of around £2m per season. Considering the season we have had I do not expect that debt to have reduced any this season.

So who's fault is it for the position that we are now in ?, i have done my bit for fifty years and as a team we are not a jot further on. The balloons in charge have a lot to answer for as they have had how many chances to get it right recently ?, i bet you not one of them ever paid to get into a hibs game and a few had ever been to any game before they took over. Accountants know nothing about football ,time for them to step aside.

Beefster
22-05-2011, 09:12 AM
But our budget will still be fourth biggest and we have leeway to bring in the managers choices. If the wasters are away and we have a capable manager in why would it not be better?

We went from flying in third to some really poor form. We pretty quickly changed manager and have the opportunity to change the players. Surely flying in third again us what should happen next?

That's not a piss take, thats my expectation from what we've done in terms if our changes.

Using your logic, the same team should win the league every single season, even if they sell all their players and buy a new team - as long as the budget is still the same. Sir Alex Ferguson should have been sacked ages ago for failing to win the Premiership one year.

It's like reading an eight year old's ramblings sometimes. "We were good, then we got rubbish, but now we've got rid of the rubbish players, we should definitely for sure be good again and if we don't get good again, we should definitely have kept the rubbish manager from that time before when we were still rubbish.".

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 09:31 AM
So who's fault is it for the position that we are now in ?, i have done my bit for fifty years and as a team we are not a jot further on. The balloons in charge have a lot to answer for as they have had how many chances to get it right recently ?, i bet you not one of them ever paid to get into a hibs game and a few had ever been to any game before they took over. Accountants know nothing about football ,time for them to step aside.

Step aside for who? How many clubs in Scotland, by your reckoning, are successful then?

As you said you have done your bit for fifty years but we "not a jot further on" so what makes you think its this boards fault? They havent been there for fifty years.

Its sixty years since we won the league and 110 since we won the scottish cup. We have won three league cups, two in the last twenty so you could argue that this is the most successful board in sixty years. We are going through a purple patch. No?

hibeedonald
22-05-2011, 09:35 AM
If the board put the effort in and bring in some good players, ill get put my effort in and get a season ticket. If not ill pick and choose my games again.

KeithTheHibby
22-05-2011, 09:43 AM
Anything less than top 6 is a massive fail in my book.

Please can we also have a decent cup run, so miss the trips to Hampden!

Hibby Kay-Yay
22-05-2011, 09:49 AM
I reasonably expect us to be competitive and try and win every game we play.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:05 AM
If the board put the effort in and bring in some good players, ill get put my effort in and get a season ticket. If not ill pick and choose my games again.

Does the manager not bring in the players? Who would you define as "good"?

new malkyhib
22-05-2011, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2809635]Step aside for who? How many clubs in Scotland, by your reckoning, are successful then?

As you said you have done your bit for fifty years but we "not a jot further on" so what makes you think its this boards fault? They havent been there for fifty years.

No, it just seems that way. Other clubs have already brought players in - we've re-signed Ivan and as much as I like Ivan's spirit, teams had worked out how to play him prior to him moving down south. We're crying out for some positive news to come out of Easter Road in the tangible form of 2 or 3 decent signings...

I honestly think there's some on this forum who would stick up for the Board even if we got relegated.

Revenues will be down because the last 4 seasons have been dire - one qualification for Europe nothwithstanding - although that's not the Board's fault though eh?

We have an owner who by his own admission, is not a football fan. We have accountants on the Board including a CEO who wasn't a football fan prior to coming to Easter Road.

We need a balance between the balance sheet and someone who understands the aspirations and mindset of the fans. This current crop don't.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:22 AM
What about my other points about three league cups in sixty years? Can you change that? If you can you get my vote.

The owner who dosent care and the CEO who isnt a football fan have won two national trophys on their shift. You have to go back to the fifties for better.

The Falcon
22-05-2011, 10:24 AM
You obviously know exactly what your doing then. Why dont you buy out the owner then you can do as you like and we would be enormously successful rule Europe.

Have I heard that before somewhere?


[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2809635]Step aside for who? How many clubs in Scotland, by your reckoning, are successful then?

As you said you have done your bit for fifty years but we "not a jot further on" so what makes you think its this boards fault? They havent been there for fifty years.

No, it just seems that way. Other clubs have already brought players in - we've re-signed Ivan and as much as I like Ivan's spirit, teams had worked out how to play him prior to him moving down south. We're crying out for some positive news to come out of Easter Road in the tangible form of 2 or 3 decent signings...

I honestly think there's some on this forum who would stick up for the Board even if we got relegated.

Revenues will be down because the last 4 seasons have been dire - one qualification for Europe nothwithstanding - although that's not the Board's fault though eh?

We have an owner who by his own admission, is not a football fan. We have accountants on the Board including a CEO who wasn't a football fan prior to coming to Easter Road.

We need a balance between the balance sheet and someone who understands the aspirations and mindset of the fans. This current crop don't.

J-C
22-05-2011, 10:26 AM
I expect to at least be pushing for 3rd/4th without to many problems, a few reasonable performances against the old firm and better results at home, making ER a harder place for opposition to came to.

In this day and age we can't expect to buy players of the calibre we would obviously like but lets hope CC has a very good scouting system and can unearth a few good gems for the prices we can afford. Wages are obviously the main problem to getting players in, we have a strict wage structure and as such this has been holding us back, I don't want us to go stupid with wages but a few extra quid on better quality wouldn't go amiss.

new malkyhib
22-05-2011, 10:27 AM
What about my other points about three league cups in sixty years? Can you change that? If you can you get my vote.

The owner who dosent care and the CEO who isnt a football fan have won two national trophys on their shift. You have to go back to the fifties for better.

I never said he "doesn't care" - I said he's not a football fan - or are you disputing that Kaiser?

new malkyhib
22-05-2011, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=The Falcon;2809680]You obviously know exactly what your doing then. Why dont you buy out the owner then you can do as you like and we would be enormously successful rule Europe.

Have I heard that before somewhere?

I don't know if you've heard it before - but the paragraph above the line in bold seems to be your fallback position every time, so i've definitely heard that line from you before - or do you think the Hibs Board should be above scrutiny?

Craig_in_Prague
22-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Reasonable expectations:

from the 1st match in July to the last game in May, every single player given their all for the jersey. No 'we're out of form and are working hard in training, we just need to take it on to the pitch' quotes.

Make ER a place teams do not want to come.

Compete in away games, manage to get some points at Killie, the PBS, Inverness and in Perth etc.

Lose few soft goals.

Murder the odd side at ER. 3+ goals.

Decent cup runs, no defeats to lower league sides.

Win, lose or draw, the fans can have a pint after the match and feel comferted at least by the effort of the side.
A fit and energetic side that we look forward to watching.

Less apathy all round.

End of season: Top 5 finish, at least 1 cup semi.

The Falcon
22-05-2011, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=The Falcon;2809680]You obviously know exactly what your doing then. Why dont you buy out the owner then you can do as you like and we would be enormously successful rule Europe.

Have I heard that before somewhere?

I don't know if you've heard it before - but the paragraph above the line in bold seems to be your fallback position every time, so i've definitely heard that line from you before - or do you think the Hibs Board should be above scrutiny?

Absolutely not. No-one would argue that things have been good or they should not be scrutinised but they are doing what they can within the constraints of the club. The time and place to ask questions is at the AGM.

Unless someone throws ridiculous money at it, or the rules about debt change, this is how it it is. If you want to change it then it would take someone to buy out the owner.

The bit in bold was that not Vlad?

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:37 AM
I never said he "doesn't care" - I said he's not a football fan - or are you disputing that Kaiser?

No you didnt and I stand corrected. Do you think they care or just have no idea what they are doing?


What about the point about national trophy's?

Mikey
22-05-2011, 10:44 AM
If the board put the effort in and bring in some good players, ill get put my effort in and get a season ticket. If not ill pick and choose my games again.

The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:49 AM
We have an owner who by his own admission, is not a football fan. We have accountants on the Board including a CEO who wasn't a football fan prior to coming to Easter Road.


Were David Duff and Jim Gray not "football fans"?

Baldy Foghorn
22-05-2011, 10:50 AM
The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.

Therein lies the problem.........After releasing so many players and Adams now away, there must be savings made which can be utilised. By using up the freed income, and making a signing which excites, maybe the waverers will buy a season ticket....

Baldy Foghorn
22-05-2011, 10:51 AM
Were David Duff and Jim Gray not "football fans"?

Maybe should have said football minded?

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:51 AM
Therein lies the problem.........After releasing so many players and Adams now away, there must be savings made which can be utilised. By using up the freed income, and making a signing which excites, maybe the waverers will buy a season ticket....

And without the season ticket money maybe they cant afford said signing :greengrin

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Maybe should have said football minded?

And we're back to Pat Nevin are we not :greengrin

I love this place BF :greengrin

Baldy Foghorn
22-05-2011, 10:54 AM
And we're back to Pat Nevin are we not :greengrin

I love this place BF :greengrin

Your a menace Kaiser:wink:

BEEJ
22-05-2011, 11:06 AM
The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.
Even if season ticket sales are down, will the Board not factor into their numbers the likelihood of much increased walk-up ticket sales through the season now that the ground capacity has been increased?

If they insist on playing the game of "who blinks first" there can only be one outcome, unfortunately.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 11:12 AM
What about my other points about three league cups in sixty years? Can you change that? If you can you get my vote.

The owner who dosent care and the CEO who isnt a football fan have won two national trophys on their shift. You have to go back to the fifties for better.

The team that won the league cup in 1972, done so at a time that the standard of Scottish football was so much higher. We were up against a Celtic team that regularly challenged the top European teams in the foremost competition at the time & Rangers were current holders of the Cup Winners Cup.

Hibs at that time mixed it with Europe's top teams [we were rated as the 5/6th best team in Europe], the following two years Hibs finished second in the league & third the next year, scoring almost at will & with the exception of Alex Cropley, [who lasted another couple of years] a bulk of the outstanding prospects that populated that team, was still there in the mid seventies.

The cup apart, the comparison's are miles apart.

PS And the cost to get in to a game was around 30p.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 11:27 AM
The team that won the league cup in 1972, done so at a time that the standard of Scottish football was so much higher. We were up against a Celtic team that regularly challenged the top European teams in the foremost competition at the time & Rangers were current holders of the Cup Winners Cup.

Hibs at that time mixed it with Europe's top teams [we were rated as the 5/6th best team in Europe], the following two years Hibs finished second in the league & third the next year, scoring almost at will & with the exception of Alex Cropley, [who lasted another couple of years] a bulk of the outstanding prospects that populated that team, was still there in the mid seventies.

The cup apart, the comparison's are miles apart.

PS And the cost to get in to a game was around 30p.

I used to get a "lift over". I would defy anyone to it now!


Thats fair points Ray but everything is relative to the period. At the time we could buy an English top flight striker and break records doing it. We cant now.

The game has changed beyond all recognition, mainly due to TV, and Scotland has been left behind. That said the Famous Five tems never won either cup and they did win Championships so to say that TT's were up against Stein's Celtic dosent do it for me.

How long would any of those players be here now? Not because of the board or the manager but more to do with geography and economics. We would have about two seasons of Stanton et all. If that. Players who arent fit to lace their boots make in a day what those guys made in a year.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 11:33 AM
The team that won the league cup in 1972, done so at a time that the standard of Scottish football was so much higher. We were up against a Celtic team that regularly challenged the top European teams in the foremost competition at the time & Rangers were current holders of the Cup Winners Cup.

Hibs at that time mixed it with Europe's top teams [we were rated as the 5/6th best team in Europe], the following two years Hibs finished second in the league & third the next year, scoring almost at will & with the exception of Alex Cropley, [who lasted another couple of years] a bulk of the outstanding prospects that populated that team, was still there in the mid seventies.

The cup apart, the comparison's are miles apart.

PS And the cost to get in to a game was around 30p.

I used to get a "lift over". I would defy anyone to it now!


Thats fair points Ray but everything is relative to the period. At the time we could buy an English top flight striker and break records doing it. We cant now.

The game has changed beyond all recognition, mainly due to TV, and Scotland has been left behind. That said the Famous Five tems never won either cup and they did win Championships so to say that TT's were up against Stein's Celtic dosent do it for me.

How long would any of those players be here now? Not because of the board or the manager but more to do with geography and economics. We would have about two seasons of Stanton et all. If that. Players who arent fit to lace their boots make in a day what those guys made in a year.

We had a chairman who paid for that player & brought in the best manager around and the entertainment was first class, give me that any day over what we have seen over the last twenty years.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the people in charge then would have made far more of an effort to build a team, rather than sell it, as in today's occupants.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 11:42 AM
[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2809761]

We also had a chairman who brought in the best manager around and the entertainment was first class, give me that any day over what we have seen over the last twenty years.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the people in charge then would have made far more of an effort to build a team, rather than sell it, than today's occupants.

How long would Turbull (player or manager) have been at Hibs these days. He would have moved on probably within a season certainly no more than two, and rightly so. The "best manager" around also, sadly, got relegated.

Thats the whole point though. Things have changed. We cant afford the going rate for class anymore.

Celtic and Rangers, while huge fish in Scotland, cant either and as soon as the EPL come knocking their players are gone as well. How many of our so called top players have we lost to anywhere other than the OF or England?

Scunthorpe and Doncaster can out bid us comfortably these days. Breaks my heart.

smurf
22-05-2011, 11:50 AM
The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.

Says it all.

However, in seasons past when selling players for millions they would rather have spent on any capital infrastructure rather than players.

The board have ran out of ideas.

Beyond selling players and us buying season tickets they are stumped.

Maybe they need a gentle reminder that us prudently investing in players, generates season ticket sales, and also a vehicle to develop they players and sell on at a profit.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 01:38 PM
Says it all.

However, in seasons past when selling players for millions they would rather have spent on any capital infrastructure rather than players.

The board have ran out of ideas.

Beyond selling players and us buying season tickets they are stumped.

Maybe they need a gentle reminder that us prudently investing in players, generates season ticket sales, and also a vehicle to develop they players and sell on at a profit.


Does gate money (including ST sales) only account for about 55% if income?

Dashing Bob S
22-05-2011, 01:49 PM
My expectations for next season: I think Calderwood has the savvy to keep us from a relegation dogfight. In fact, I think we'll improve to the extent of challenging for a top six place next year, and will probably progress further than the first knockout round of at least one of the two domestic trophies.

Would this progress be acceptable?

Andy74
22-05-2011, 01:50 PM
Using your logic, the same team should win the league every single season, even if they sell all their players and buy a new team - as long as the budget is still the same. Sir Alex Ferguson should have been sacked ages ago for failing to win the Premiership one year.

It's like reading an eight year old's ramblings sometimes. "We were good, then we got rubbish, but now we've got rid of the rubbish players, we should definitely for sure be good again and if we don't get good again, we should definitely have kept the rubbish manager from that time before when we were still rubbish.".

I'm just repeating the logic used for changing the manager and emptying the players. That's all sorted so we should be more optimistic.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=Ray-in-ireland;2809763]

How long would Turbull (player or manager) have been at Hibs these days. He would have moved on probably within a season certainly no more than two, and rightly so. The "best manager" around also, sadly, got relegated.

Thats the whole point though. Things have changed. We cant afford the going rate for class anymore.

Celtic and Rangers, while huge fish in Scotland, cant either and as soon as the EPL come knocking their players are gone as well. How many of our so called top players have we lost to anywhere other than the OF or England?

Scunthorpe and Doncaster can out bid us comfortably these days. Breaks my heart.

My answers were related to the quote

"The owner who dosent care and the CEO who isnt a football fan have won two national trophys on their shift. You have to go back to the fifties for better."

What I'm suggesting was you don't have to go back to the fifties as, IMHO, football wise, the early seventies were considerably better than two league cup wins & that those years were better than the last twenty.

Eddie Turnbull, while with Aberdeen, knocked back Rangers & Pat Stanton and others could have gone South, perhaps money wasn't the God then, to some, the way it is today. Never mind today, Hibs couldn't afford the 132k [including tax] in 1974, for Joe Harper, as you mention, a record amount for a Scottish club, that's why the chairman paid the cheque.

As for the relegation, I doubt the ET who joined Hibs in 1971 would have had a team relegated, sadly, I believe, illness had its effect.

snooky
22-05-2011, 02:03 PM
Says it all.

However, in seasons past when selling players for millions they would rather have spent on any capital infrastructure rather than players.

The board have ran out of ideas.

Beyond selling players and us buying season tickets they are stumped.

Maybe they need a gentle reminder that us prudently investing in players, generates season ticket sales, and also a vehicle to develop they players and sell on at a profit.

Old adage: "Speculate to accumulate" :cool2:

silverhibee
22-05-2011, 02:08 PM
The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.


Unless its on a new stand. :greengrin

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 02:12 PM
[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2809769]

My answers were related to the quote

"The owner who dosent care and the CEO who isnt a football fan have won two national trophys on their shift. You have to go back to the fifties for better."

What I'm suggesting was you don't have to go back to the fifties as, IMHO, football wise, the early seventies were considerably better than two league cup wins & that those years were better than the last twenty.

Eddie Turnbull, while with Aberdeen, knocked back Rangers & Pat Stanton and others could have gone South, perhaps money wasn't the God then, to some, the way it is today. Never mind today, Hibs couldn't afford the 132k [including tax] in 1974, for Joe Harper, as you mention, a record amount for a Scottish club, that's why the chairman paid the cheque.

As for the relegation, I doubt the ET who joined Hibs in 1971 would have had a team relegated, sadly, I believe, illness had its effect.


You may well be right but then how do you measure success if not on trophys against your contempories. The standard is lower, no argument, but thats national. The record books show we won one national trophy at a time when Hibs were amongst the highest payers in Scotland. My point remains that Stanton today could command £100k (at least) a week and would not stay at Hibs for £5k and does anybody think he would? We couldnt hold those players now.

We're comparing apples and oranges I suppose but my overall point is that those days are gone and for purely financial reasons it is highly unlikely they will return. We may get a good day out every five years or so but that will be it.

Overall I think thats where we've been for the last 60 years.

hibeedonald
22-05-2011, 02:21 PM
The club won't spend money they don't have. The players won't come in until the season tickets are bought.

That's true but i'm 17 and a £170 plus at least a tenner for each time I go Easter road as I live in Stirling is alot of money. This season was the first i have not had a season ticket since i was 13, personally glad i didn't buy one, and if there's a chance that next season will be a repeat of this then i wont be renewing.

Cropley10
22-05-2011, 03:26 PM
A reasonable expectation would be to finish the season with the manager we started it with.

If we don't then Mr Petrie will need to prove to us once again he knows how to appoint a Hibs manager. Given enough chances I'm convinced he can get it right.:aok:

Cropley10
22-05-2011, 03:30 PM
Says it all.

However, in seasons past when selling players for millions they would rather have spent on any capital infrastructure rather than players.

The board have ran out of ideas.

Beyond selling players and us buying season tickets they are stumped.

Maybe they need a gentle reminder that us prudently investing in players, generates season ticket sales, and also a vehicle to develop they players and sell on at a profit.

But now there's no more infrastructure to buy then what else is there to spend the money on??

The idea that players will be bought AFTER ST's have been bought is real lowest common denominator thinking. I still struggle to understand what every other club in the SPL apart from Hertz and the OF manage to attract players.

col02
22-05-2011, 03:35 PM
I have not seen anything to suggest we will improve next season with regards to league placings so I envisage us finishing roughly in the same position as this season in the league.

Baldy Foghorn
22-05-2011, 03:43 PM
A reasonable expectation would be to finish the season with the manager we started it with.

If we don't then Mr Petrie will need to prove to us once again he knows how to appoint a Hibs manager. Given enough chances I'm convinced he can get it right.:aok:

How many managers do the Board nned to go through before we get the right one? Board have to take responsibility on this issue as they are 100% culpable for hiring managers

Ray_
22-05-2011, 05:50 PM
[QUOTE=Ray-in-ireland;2809853]


You may well be right but then how do you measure success if not on trophys against your contempories. The standard is lower, no argument, but thats national. The record books show we won one national trophy at a time when Hibs were amongst the highest payers in Scotland. My point remains that Stanton today could command £100k (at least) a week and would not stay at Hibs for £5k and does anybody think he would? We couldnt hold those players now.

We're comparing apples and oranges I suppose but my overall point is that those days are gone and for purely financial reasons it is highly unlikely they will return. We may get a good day out every five years or so but that will be it.

Overall I think thats where we've been for the last 60 years.

There is not a shadow of doubt that I would measure the TT's success i.e. one league cup, two Drybrough Cup's, league position and European adventures, above two league cups in twenty years.

I would also measure the regard a team has with the fans as a measurement of success & in that respect, there is no contest, the teams of the last three years are about as attractive as a visit to the dentists.

I said I believed that the board of the early seventies would have made more of an effort to have built a team than the current board & your reply of a weekly 100k for Stanton doesn't change that view.

The current board have done well with the infrastructure, but football is about entertainment & following football today is hugely costly, over the piece the board has failed miserably in making the club attractive, despite two cups in two decades.

Golden Bear
22-05-2011, 05:57 PM
I have not seen anything to suggest we will improve next season with regards to league placings so I envisage us finishing roughly in the same position as this season in the league.

I sincerely hope that you are wrong but unfortunately I think your opinion is spot on.

new malkyhib
22-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Old adage: "Speculate to accumulate" :cool2:

...but if they fail to even countenance "speculating" a wee bit, then they'll accumulate what they "accumulated" this season - a poor team, a disillusioned support and a 1/3rd full stadium.

As someone said on another thread, just this once, the Board will need to "blink first" in regard to the recruitment of decent players.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 06:29 PM
No argument that Turnbull's team was better and remains the best I have seen but, illness or not, Hibs fans were screaming for him to go at the end. I even remember fans screaming abuse at him when Celtic came back from three down in the first Drybrough Cup. I remember being embarassed at the abuse Willie Ormond got after a home defeat to Dumbarton.

In the last 60 years we have finished second three times, twice with Turnbull's side. Won three league cups one with Turnbull and Turnbull won two Drybrough Cups, which was only open to eight teams. (The four highest scoring in Div 1 and the same from Div 2)

I think sometimes we look back through rose tinted glasses.




[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2809863]
There is not a shadow of doubt that I would measure the TT's success i.e. one league cup, two Drybrough Cup's, league position and European adventures, above two league cups in twenty years.

I would also measure the regard a team has with the fans as a measurement of success & in that respect, there is no contest, the teams of the last three years are about as attractive as a visit to the dentists.

I said I believed that the board of the early seventies would have made more of an effort to have built a team than the current board & your reply of a weekly 100k for Stanton doesn't change that view.

The current board have done well with the infrastructure, but football is about entertainment & following football today is hugely costly, over the piece the board has failed miserably in making the club attractive, despite two cups in two decades.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 07:33 PM
No argument that Turnbull's team was better and remains the best I have seen but, illness or not, Hibs fans were screaming for him to go at the end. I even remember fans screaming abuse at him when Celtic came back from three down in the first Drybrough Cup. I remember being embarassed at the abuse Willie Ormond got after a home defeat to Dumbarton.

In the last 60 years we have finished second three times, twice with Turnbull's side. Won three league cups one with Turnbull and Turnbull won two Drybrough Cups, which was only open to eight teams. (The four highest scoring in Div 1 and the same from Div 2)

I think sometimes we look back through rose tinted glasses.




Yes its all pretty grim, thankfully I never heard any abuse coming ET's way during the 5-3 game, really sad reading that, short memories, as no doubt three days earlier the same clowns were cheering him in the 3-0 semi win over Rangers.

It was as you said, only 8 teams, however, to win it on both occasions, we had to beat Rangers & Celtic, which is usually the way no matter what competition it is in Scotland.

No rose tinted glasses here, the latter part of the seventies, after his illness, was poor, but ET's team during the earlier part of that decade was still far better than anything in Scottish football today.

The point I'm making is that for a third of that 60 years dire years, we have been governed by the present guardians. In that time, the cost of following football has risen massively out of proportion and in football terms, during that period, so called smaller teams have regularly done considerably better than us.

ancient hibee
22-05-2011, 07:43 PM
Surely it was easier to build a team 40 years ago because the club had the players for life if they wanted.Now a good player at a non OF club knows he just has to wait if he wants to move on.The club then can't be blamed for cashing in early.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 08:01 PM
I was very young during the 5-3 game but I remember the vitriol aimed at ET like it was yesterday. Was in the middle of the old South Stand (spookily a year later we were in the pigeon loft that was the North stand) and I had heard nothing like it. I still maintain that Jimmy Johnstone's 2nd half performance was probably the best I have seen when you take it the he was up against a good Hibs team.

We are lying 6th in the overall table for the SPL 21 points behind the 4th placed team (which is Killie) BUT we have played a season less. We are 4th highest goalscorers (despite the season less) and 4th highest on a goals scored per game average. We also have the 4th best goal difference.

As Ancient Hibbee says, very pertinently, that players back then could not leave if they were unhappy. If they didn't sign a club could freeze them out the game for good.

Its different times. I am not happy with the way things have went but, as the table suggests , we are by no means as bad as we think.



[B]
Yes its all pretty grim, thankfully I never heard any abuse coming ET's way during the 5-3 game, really sad reading that, short memories, as no doubt three days earlier the same clowns were cheering him in the 3-0 semi win over Rangers.

It was as you said, only 8 teams, however, to win it on both occasions, we had to beat Rangers & Celtic, which is usually the way no matter what competition it is in Scotland.

No rose tinted glasses here, the latter part of the seventies, after his illness, was poor, but ET's team during the earlier part of that decade was still far better than anything in Scottish football today.

The point I'm making is that for a third of that 60 years dire years, we have been governed by the present guardians. In that time, the cost of following football has risen massively out of proportion and in football terms, during that period, so called smaller teams have regularly done considerably better than us.

Kaiser1962
22-05-2011, 08:16 PM
A correction to the above is that we are actually third (not 4th as I said) on an average of goals scored per game played and 4th overall on points per game.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 09:53 PM
I was very young during the 5-3 game but I remember the vitriol aimed at ET like it was yesterday. Was in the middle of the old South Stand (spookily a year later we were in the pigeon loft that was the North stand) and I had heard nothing like it. I still maintain that Jimmy Johnstone's 2nd half performance was probably the best I have seen when you take it the he was up against a good Hibs team.

We are lying 6th in the overall table for the SPL 21 points behind the 4th placed team (which is Killie) BUT we have played a season less. We are 4th highest goalscorers (despite the season less) and 4th highest on a goals scored per game average. We also have the 4th best goal difference.

As Ancient Hibbee says, very pertinently, that players back then could not leave if they were unhappy. If they didn't sign a club could freeze them out the game for good.

Its different times. I am not happy with the way things have went but, as the table suggests , we are by no means as bad as we think.

The fact we are behind Killie at all is pretty grim & that includes the fact we are a season behind them, due to us being relegated no doubt. Killie did win the big cup though, as did the other so called lesser lights ST Mirren, Motherwell & Dundee Utd, therefore I do think we are have done as bad as I think. :greengrin

I respect that its different times & appreciate ancient hibee's contribution, however I still think we are too quick to sell & I don't believe the board we had when ET joined would have been so willing.

Ray_
22-05-2011, 10:11 PM
I was very young during the 5-3 game but I remember the vitriol aimed at ET like it was yesterday. Was in the middle of the old South Stand (spookily a year later we were in the pigeon loft that was the North stand) and I had heard nothing like it. I still maintain that Jimmy Johnstone's 2nd half performance was probably the best I have seen when you take it the he was up against a good Hibs team.



Jimmy Johnstone was something else & considering they had other players like McGrain, Hay, Connolly, Macari, Dalglish, Deans, Murdoch & Lennox, to beat them well, it shows the level that Hibs team was at.

I was in the covered enclosure, what was traditionally called the Rangers end. The Celtic fans were caught in the middle of two banks of Hibs fans & I suppose avoiding the bottles was uppermost in most people's mind, in that section of the ground.

Celtic had caught Hibs fans in the middle during the Scottish in May & they were throwing bottles on to the roof, which shattered and rained down on the Hibs fans, the next two finals that year, the Hibs fans reversed it.

As for second half performances, in the league cup final Pat Stanton was immense & ran the game, Celtic started with Johnson on to the left wing, Stein wanted to pre-occupy John Brownlie, it never worked, as JJ spent most of the game in Onion's wake, as he drove forward.

sesoim
23-05-2011, 01:19 AM
We have the 4th biggest budget, and lots of wages available because of all the players that have left, so 4th pace should be our aim. I'd accept a lower position if we win the Scottish Cup. Either way, with five European places available, we should be aiming to get one of them.

DrSpaceMonkey
23-05-2011, 04:18 AM
Surley winning the league is a resonable expectation? If not why bother playing?

steakbake
23-05-2011, 04:38 AM
We came 10th for a reason and that is because we were unacceptably poor for most of the season. However, I think most Hibbys had written this season off by New Year and given at how things were going at one stage, avoiding a relegation fight in the closing games of the season was the best we could have hoped for. We were safe from that with some weeks to go.

On the resources and types of players within our reach, I think a reasonable general expectation level is to be in competition for European qualification on a more or less annual basis. Those years in which we don't qualify, I would have thought that being safely within the top 6 is not unreasonable to think as our lowest expectations.

A bottom 6 finish in our league is not at all satisfactory and in most ordinary years, should lead the board to question the abilities of the manager and players. This year is different in that CC has not had the whole year and picked up from where Hughes left off.

In terms of the expectation levels of the kind of players we should have, I think some folk have very unrealistic expectations. No club in the SPL outside of the OF has the money to regularly buy in above average quality UK and foreign talent. The fact of the matter is that a "successful" season in the SPL relies on half the squad being good players, with decent skill and fitness levels who consistently play to their abilities with the remainder a mixture of inexperienced youth and average ability squad players.

As for winning the league, we'd need several seasons of consistently being best of the rest outside of the OF before we could realistically hope to mount a sustained challenge for either 2nd or 1st. The gulf between the OF and the rest of the league in terms of wages, access to skilled/experienced players etc is not insurmountable but it is massive.

Calvin
23-05-2011, 05:37 AM
The problem for next year is that we don't have many good players.

The good teams (OF excepted) are built by improving season upon season, by buying a couple of players each year and gradually growing the team. There is no way that we can replace Bamba, Zemmama and Riordan with equal quality in one transfer window. In fact, we'd be fortunate to get a player as good as Bamba at all now! This is particularly concerning for the season ahead as we need to improve the outgoing quality all in one transfer window, which means signing probably eight good players. In one transfer window? It just can't happen, even with a reasonable budget.

I think that when the team got as poor as it was this season, it was time to switch to a long term strategy of gradual improvement to end up at a very good level, as opposed to trying to get to a merely 'acceptable' level in the space of one season.

Kaiser1962
23-05-2011, 06:40 AM
We have the 4th biggest budget, and lots of wages available because of all the players that have left, so 4th pace should be our aim. I'd accept a lower position if we win the Scottish Cup. Either way, with five European places available, we should be aiming to get one of them.


Contrary to popular opinion we dont. From the figures available in the last five years Aberdeen have spent £30.2m and Hibs £23.7m. A difference of over a million a season.

And they think we're underachievers?

Kaiser1962
23-05-2011, 06:51 AM
The fact we are behind Killie at all is pretty grim & that includes the fact we are a season behind them, due to us being relegated no doubt. Killie did win the big cup though, as did the other so called lesser lights ST Mirren, Motherwell & Dundee Utd, therefore I do think we are have done as bad as I think. :greengrin

I respect that its different times & appreciate ancient hibee's contribution, however I still think we are too quick to sell & I don't believe the board we had when ET joined would have been so willing.

Very true we are behind Killie but, as you say, thats cos we got relegated. Assuming we would get 21 points in a season we would have been above them, like we are in every other meaningful category.

What can i say about the big cup other than both the Five andTT's failed there as well. This is the only regard in which today's lot compare.

I dont think we are too quick to sell but it's a matter of opinion. Of course I would like to hold on to class players but the riches on offer elsewhere mean there is not a chance we can. The best we can do is what happened with Fletch in that we knock back an offer but speak to the guy and agree when something comes up he will be made aware and discuss it. We COULD hold them to their contract but where does that get you other than an unhappy or unmotivated player. We've seen some of those recently.

The days of Jim MacLean holding players registrations are gone, and rightly so, and it's the job of those in charge to get the best deal for Hibs.

Beefster
23-05-2011, 08:27 AM
Contrary to popular opinion we dont. From the figures available in the last five years Aberdeen have spent £30.2m and Hibs £23.7m. A difference of over a million a season.

And they think we're underachievers?

That doesn't mean that we don't have a bigger budget for next season.

mon the cabbage
23-05-2011, 08:31 AM
top six and hampden once (starting to forget what the place looks like).


Do you not go to any scotland games

Kaiser1962
23-05-2011, 08:59 AM
That doesn't mean that we don't have a bigger budget for next season.

No it dosent but, while the budget has increased year on year, do you think thats likely? Cant see where it would be coming from myself.

Kaiser1962
23-05-2011, 08:59 AM
Do you not go to any scotland games

It was on the telly on Saturday :greengrin