Hindsight - Mixu leaving 2 years ago

[The Sea-gull]

Maybe I have forgotten what it was like during his tenure but when Mixu left we were a top 6 club.

OK, the football and some results were not great but I've always felt we parted ways with him a wee bit too soon. I said this at the time and not on the back of his recent success at Killie. Him staying would have at least given stability.

We are now stuck with someone who, while he deserves a chance, isn't inspiring great confidence amoung fans and I've got a feeling he won's see Xmas at ER. He might not even see the leaves turning brown!

To be honest, the rot sank in years ago and the board has to take a large share of the blame for this as managers have come and gone, as have players but they remain a constant.

Truth is, Mowbray built up a team over a two year period between and then was the time to invest. The lack of funds given to TM meant that by his third season we were slipping to being a lower top 6 team and aside from a couple of good short term runs under Collins, Mixu and Yogi, we have never been able to achieve consistency and have been on the slide ever since.

Big summer coming up as if it doesn't work out for CC and he doesn't hit the ground running, the crowds will plumment very quickly at the start of the season.

[hibs0666]

Good to see Mixu getting the Manager of the season award last night.

He is definitely one that got away.

[smurf]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

[marinello59]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.
:agree:

[Gus Fring]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

Thirded

[basehibby]

Maybe I have forgotten what it was like during his tenure but when Mixu left we were a top 6 club.

OK, the football and some results were not great but I've always felt we parted ways with him a wee bit too soon. I said this at the time and not on the back of his recent success at Killie. Him staying would have at least given stability.

We are now stuck with someone who, while he deserves a chance, isn't inspiring great confidence amoung fans and I've got a feeling he won's see Xmas at ER. He might not even see the leaves turning brown!

To be honest, the rot sank in years ago and the board has to take a large share of the blame for this as managers have come and gone, as have players but they remain a constant.

Truth is, Mowbray built up a team over a two year period between and then was the time to invest. The lack of funds given to TM meant that by his third season we were slipping to being a lower top 6 team and aside from a couple of good short term runs under Collins, Mixu and Yogi, we have never been able to achieve consistency and have been on the slide ever since.

Big summer coming up as if it doesn't work out for CC and he doesn't hit the ground running, the crowds will plumment very quickly at the start of the season.

Therein lies the rub (the bit in bold). We have not given any of our managers since Mowbray sufficient time and/or financial backing to reap the rewards which we desire.
We can argue the toss all day and night about their relative qualities but the fact remains that Collins, Mixu and Yogi shared only 4 or 5 (?) seasons between them.
I think the board obviously has to bear a burden of responsibility for this as it is they who select the manager and set his budgets.
However, I also believe that the fans must shoulder their share of the balme - many have chucked their toys out the pram at the first sign of trouble, resulting in EVERY manager being under pressure from some elements of the support when their feet have barely touched the ground.
I think this attitude has become prevalent already with Calderwood. Of course I understand that the last 5 or 6 results were pish poor, but I also understand that they have been used to experiment with the team and try youngsters out as well as other players who's futures may have been in doubt.
I just hope that all those fans who have been venting their spleen about Calderwood can use the summer as an opportunity to calm down and come back prepared to give the guy a clean sheet and a decent crack at the whip in the new season.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

Agreed

[vanNISHtelroy]

Mixu's success was down to the style of football that he had us playing and probably three (maybe four) players.

Managing to turn round Conor Sammon's career and change his confidence etc
Managing to get Eremenko on loan - would have had an effect on any club (and for the wages that he did)
Getting Ben Gordon on loan, really missed him since Chelsea didn't send him back
Having Sissoko on loan as well.

He also managed to get some good performances out of the rest of the squad at times.

[Mikey]

The polls on here consistently ran at around 90% in favour of him getting the boot.

[easty]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

I'm happy to jump on this bandwagon.

[hibsbollah]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

Agree 100%. I almost stopped going under Mixu. its baad now i admit but at least its not the 5-0-5 Hoofball formation.

[Dinkydoo]

Berating officials, his stubborn nature, 433 formation and the "wee terrier" Chisholm were all indicative that he had to go when he did IMO.

[Phil D. Rolls]

After Hibs, Mixu took a year our. What he gained from having the pressure off was time to think about how he could be a better manager. He would never have had that opportunity at Hibs.

[jiggerman]

I think its unbelievable people think Collins was the 'one that got away'.

I thought the way he was taking the team, in terms of quality of player was terrible.

[Ritchie]

sacking mixu was the best thing that could have ever happened for mixu.

he said himself when appointed as killie manager that he took time out to study football and work out where he got it wrong at hibs.

if he had stayed as hibs manager he wouldnt have turned it round like he did at killie.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Therein lies the rub (the bit in bold). We have not given any of our managers since Mowbray sufficient time and/or financial backing to reap the rewards which we desire.

We can argue the toss all day and night about their relative qualities but the fact remains that Collins, Mixu and Yogi shared only 4 or 5 (?) seasons between them.

I think the board obviously has to bear a burden of responsibility for this as it is they who select the manager and set his budgets.

However, I also believe that the fans must shoulder their share of the balme - many have chucked their toys out the pram at the first sign of trouble, resulting in EVERY manager being under pressure from some elements of the support when their feet have barely touched the ground.

I think this attitude has become prevalent already with Calderwood. Of course I understand that the last 5 or 6 results were pish poor, but I also understand that they have been used to experiment with the team and try youngsters out as well as other players who's futures may have been in doubt.

I just hope that all those fans who have been venting their spleen about Calderwood can use the summer as an opportunity to calm down and come back prepared to give the guy a clean sheet and a decent crack at the whip in the new season.

This.

[hibs0666]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

Two players do not make a team.

No club has even sniffed at Collins since he walked out of the Belgian club after walking out on Hibs. Surely someone would have recognised his management genius by now?

[Kaiser1962]

We can argue the toss all day and night about their relative qualities but the fact remains that Collins, Mixu and Yogi shared only 4 or 5 (?) seasons between them.
I think the board obviously has to bear a burden of responsibility for this as it is they who select the manager and set his budgets.


But surely the manager knows their budget and tells the board they can do the job within that? Otherwise why take it?

[Sir David Gray]

I think its unbelievable people think Collins was the 'one that got away'.

I thought the way he was taking the team, in terms of quality of player was terrible.

:agree:

Thomas Sowunmi-Garbage
Yves Makalambay-Not great
Alan O'Brien-Woeful
Clayton Donaldson-Awful
Thierry Gathuessi-Scary
Brian Kerr-Crap
Filipe Morais-Horrendous
Mickael Antoine Curier-Terrible

With signings like this, we were only going to get worse.

Collins has hardly had the glittering managerial career in the 3 and a half years since he left Hibs that would make me think he was the "one who got away".

He only lasted 6 months at Charleroi and hasn't had a managerial position for two years.

I will be forever grateful to him for being the manager that gave me the best day of my life so far but overall, I'm not convinced by his managerial credentials.

[BEEJ]

Mixu inferred strongly in an interview last Autumn that he had more flexibility to operate in the transfer market when at Killie than when he had managed Hibs.

Make of that what you will; but the inference is that the likes of an Eremenko might not have been able to be accommodated at ER had the opportunity emerged during Mixu's tenure with us.

[easty]

Two players do not make a team.

No club has even sniffed at Collins since he walked out of the Belgian club after walking out on Hibs. Surely someone would have recognised his management genius by now?

Two players can make a team.

Take Eremenko out of the equation for Killie this season, they'd have been nothing.

Put him in our team for this season, we'd have been much better. Not just the talent he possesses but as he makes things happen it improves the confidence in the players around him no end.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The time for Mixu coming to Hibs would be correct now, after leaving Killie rather than when he did come. Difficult to look back and try not to pick out individual mistakes, but Joe Keenan was a howler and Fletch in midfield was a real headscratcher. I often felt that he was on a downward slope after that string of scuddings in the preseason friendlies and the pitifull showings in the Inter-two-bob. It was always going to come right tomorrow, and he could always see what we couldn't.

[Hakim Sar]

Disagree entirely that John Collins was the one that got away. He was rank and signed very dodgy players.

[soproni1]

No Mixu going was right. The Killie 'success' this year IMHO was all to do with one or two very good players.

The one that got away was John Collins.

Poor decision not to back him the way Hughes was

[Pretty Boy]

I think its unbelievable people think Collins was the 'one that got away'.

I thought the way he was taking the team, in terms of quality of player was terrible.

This.

People have short memories about just how bad we were under Collins by the time he jumped ship. There was regular 'Collin GTF' threads on here and elsewhere.

[matty_f]

I think its unbelievable people think Collins was the 'one that got away'.

I thought the way he was taking the team, in terms of quality of player was terrible.

I agree completely, one of the worst managers we've had since Duffy in terms of being able to work the transfer market. He alienated the players, sold other players unnecessarily, and brought utter garbage to the club.

We played brilliantly in the 07 cup final, and in a handul (if that) of other games - Motherwell away springs to mind - but we were horrendous by the time he left. I think the infamous game where he played McCann at centre-half against the sheep the stats had something like 30-odd shots at goal from the sheep, such was their superiority.

[hstn747]

It's all about the players at the Manager's disposal. Collins was getting found out and he knew it - that's why he jumped ship.

Mowbray inherited the most talented bunch of youngsters this country has seen in years, supplemented with a couple of great buys - Jones & Murphy.

Collins then inherited them after they'd matured a bit more and won a cup but should have won two. Those young guys would have cost millions to buy in and would have commanded massive wages - hence the reason we took in so much for them.

Mixu only had Fletcher left of the golden crop.

Hughes didn't have any of them to work with.

Calderwood may have a couple of good youngsters on his hands.

The only way we are going to be good without going into massive debt is to rear our own or buy them at 18 or 19 like Stephens and Palsson and hope they turn out good.

The most important people at Hibs are the Scouts.
Some stability is what we need.

[Pretty Boy]

I agree completely, one of the worst managers we've had since Duffy in terms of being able to work the transfer market. He alienated the players, sold other players unnecessarily, and brought utter garbage to the club.
We played brilliantly in the 07 cup final, and in a handul (if that) of other games - Motherwell away springs to mind - but we were horrendous by the time he left. I think the infamous game where he played McCann at centre-half against the sheep the stats had something like 30-odd shots at goal from the sheep, such was their superiority.

Key point in bold for me.

People always state that Rod Petrie backed the players over Collins. I'm not so sure that's the case. The summer after the revolt saw Collins rip apart a cup winning squad and the only player that was sold from over his head was Scott Brown. Decent players like Steven Whittaker, Michael Stewart, Ivan Sproule etc were either sold or let go on Collins say so as he attempted to 'clean up' the dressing room.

He chose to waste the majority of his budget on a young, unproven goalkeeper, an anonymous midfielder from Motherwell and a winger from Newcastle reserves, the latter two on the say so of Tommy Craig. Some of the other players he brought in were a joke and his tactics at time were baffling.

The one that got away? A lucky escape i'd say.

[matty_f]

Key point in bold for me.

People always state that Rod Petrie backed the players over Collins. I'm not so sure that's the case. The summer after the revolt saw Collins rip apart a cup winning squad and the only player that was sold from over his head was Scott Brown. Decent players like Steven Whittaker, Michael Stewart, Ivan Sproule etc were either sold or let go on Collins say so as he attempted to 'clean up' the dressing room.

He chose to waste the majority of his budget on a young, unproven goalkeeper, an anonymous midfielder from Motherwell and a winger from Newcastle reserves, the latter two on the say so of Tommy Craig. Some of the other players he brought in were a joke and his tactics at time were baffling.

The one that got away? A lucky escape i'd say.

You are right, Petrie told the players that Collins was the manager and they had to accept his ways. This is something that gets missed a lot when people refer back to that meeting.

Totally agree with your post.:agree:

[Bishop Hibee]

Out of Mixu, Collins and Yogi, Mixu was definitely the better manager. He inherited a load of duds bought by Collins and got the best out of the threadbare squad we had given the sale of the 'golden generation'.

I wasn't happy with his negative tactics at the time e.g. the 0-0 draws at home to rantic but with players like Chisholm and Thicot, in retrospect he did really well. It was the drastic fall in ST sales that was the nail in Mixu's coffin and look who we ended up with. Our worst manager since Duff Jimmy.

Jury out on CC.

[matty_f]

Out of Mixu, Collins and Yogi, Mixu was definitely the better manager. He inherited a load of duds bought by Collins and got the best out of the threadbare squad we had given the sale of the 'golden generation'.

I wasn't happy with his negative tactics at the time e.g. the 0-0 draws at home to rantic but with players like Chisholm and Thicot, in retrospect he did really well. It was the drastic fall in ST sales that was the nail in Mixu's coffin and look who we ended up with. Our worst manager since Duff Jimmy.

Jury out on CC.

Agree with your view on Mixu. The football was chronic but we managed to dig out a fair few results and were usually hard to beat.

It was painful to watch though, as we pretty much did without a midfield for the majority of games.

[J-C]

Mixu himself admitted he made a lot of mistakes when at ER, he became a better manager due to learning from these mistakes, just a pity it was at Hibs where he had to make these mistakes.

[RIP]

Board and fans with no backbone - that's the problem :greengrin

Rebuilding every business takes time. You need to be willing to go down a snake to come back up a ladder

Hibs fans can't see that and therefore we reap what we sow. I think that if any one of JC, Mixu or Yogi had been given 2 or 3 years they would have had us doing better than as present

Our squad building strategy has been a shambles since Mowbray. A non-football board and ever changing coaching team has seen to that

[Winston Ingram]

Maybe I have forgotten what it was like during his tenure but when Mixu left we were a top 6 club.

OK, the football and some results were not great but I've always felt we parted ways with him a wee bit too soon. I said this at the time and not on the back of his recent success at Killie. Him staying would have at least given stability.

We are now stuck with someone who, while he deserves a chance, isn't inspiring great confidence amoung fans and I've got a feeling he won's see Xmas at ER. He might not even see the leaves turning brown!

To be honest, the rot sank in years ago and the board has to take a large share of the blame for this as managers have come and gone, as have players but they remain a constant.

Truth is, Mowbray built up a team over a two year period between and then was the time to invest. The lack of funds given to TM meant that by his third season we were slipping to being a lower top 6 team and aside from a couple of good short term runs under Collins, Mixu and Yogi, we have never been able to achieve consistency and have been on the slide ever since.

Big summer coming up as if it doesn't work out for CC and he doesn't hit the ground running, the crowds will plumment very quickly at the start of the season.

Mixu was the worst Manager I've ever seen bar none. His decision making was appalling. That was when he made a decision. Usually he'd pick a team and no matter how bad it got he'd still do nowt.

[Purple & Green]

I think the infamous game where he played McCann at centre-half against the sheep the stats had something like 30-odd shots at goal from the sheep, such was their superiority.

We were seventh when Collins took over - after that Aberdeen game you mention we were third.

That's statistics for you.

[zlatan]

I also reckon Mixu learnt from his mistakes from his time at Hibs, took the time out to travel Europe and make himself the success he has just now. Nothing but respect and admiration for the man for doing so, but it was right he left when he did.

In my opinion we haven't made a decent managerial appointment since Mowbray (and the man before him was a none to braw decision). Collins took us 10 steps back with his atrocious use of a reasonable budget which has lead to, what will be, the current slump in ST sales and rumoured smaller budget as a consequence.

[BEEJ]

We were seventh when Collins took over - after that Aberdeen game you mention we were third.

That's statistics for you.
Then 5th by the time JC left four games later towards the end of December 2007; and then 8th by the time Mixu arrived in January.

[lucky]

Mixu was awful when he was hibs boss. The tactics were embarrassing. He had to go. Yogi was even worse, totally clueless. With JC we won a trophy but his ego was the problem. It's interesting that Yogi has not worked since. JC got 6 months at a lowly Belgium club. Mixu never worked for a year. Learned his trade and did well at Killie. So all 3 were the wrong appointments. Time will judge CC but so far its not been good. I'm willing to give him another season to allow him to build a team or at least show some improvement.

[Winston Ingram]

We were seventh when Collins took over - after that Aberdeen game you mention we were third.

That's statistics for you.

Considering the level of contempt the Hibs players had for Collins, Petrie himself could have taken over and dramatically improved our form. After his honeymoon period was over the whacking great holes that appeared in everything he did soon appeared

[Andy74]

Poor decision not to back him the way Hughes was

Who, Collins? Who received over 500k in transfer fee money which he spent on O'Brien and Maka?

He also walked before discussing the budget with the Board.

[Andy74]

Board and fans with no backbone - that's the problem :greengrin

Rebuilding every business takes time. You need to be willing to go down a snake to come back up a ladder

Hibs fans can't see that and therefore we reap what we sow. I think that if any one of JC, Mixu or Yogi had been given 2 or 3 years they would have had us doing better than as present

Our squad building strategy has been a shambles since Mowbray. A non-football board and ever changing coaching team has seen to that

It means allowing people to work through long periods when things aren't going right but it's what should happen.

[BEEJ]

It means allowing people to work through long periods when things aren't going right but it's what should happen.
Obviously five and a half months of things not going right under Yogi in 2010 was just run of the mill, then? Not long enough for you. :wink:

I guess everyone has different tolerance levels.

[hibs0666]

Mixu was awful when he was hibs boss. The tactics were embarrassing. He had to go. Yogi was even worse, totally clueless. With JC we won a trophy but his ego was the problem. It's interesting that Yogi has not worked since. JC got 6 months at a lowly Belgium club. Mixu never worked for a year. Learned his trade and did well at Killie. So all 3 were the wrong appointments. Time will judge CC but so far its not been good. I'm willing to give him another season to allow him to build a team or at least show some improvement.

Mixu was the right appointment. It's just a shame that we as 'supporters' do not allow our managers the chance to develop their trade.

[Winston Ingram]

Mixu was the right appointment. It's just a shame that we as 'supporters' do not allow our managers the chance to develop their trade.

Mixu was horrific.

I can't believe how short peoples memories are. He would have got time if he'd even shown an inkling of ability but how much time do you give someone who every single week would leave nearly a whole stadium utterly baffled and then follow it up with the biggest pile of pish in the post match press conference which actually left you thinking he was not only clueless but also a bit mad:confused:

He probably got longer than he deserved as was in charge for 18 months.We only made the top 6 only because Motherwell ****ed up a home game v St Mirren

[Andy74]

Obviously five and a half months of things not going right under Yogi in 2010 was just run of the mill, then? Not long enough for you. :wink:

I guess everyone has different tolerance levels.

It's not fixed now though is it?

My point is that if you let the same guy work through it you are probably going to get out of it at the other end a wee bit quicker and with better long term results with less change.

[hibs0666]

Mixu was horrific.

I can't believe how short peoples memories are. He would have got time if he'd even shown an inkling of ability but how much time do you give someone who every single week would leave nearly a whole stadium utterly baffled and then follow it up with the biggest pile of pish in the post match press conference which actually left you thinking he was not only clueless but also a bit mad:confused:

He probably got longer than he deserved as was in charge for 18 months.We only made the top 6 only because Motherwell ****ed up a home game v St Mirren

Is this the Scottish manager of the year you are talking about?

[Winston Ingram]

Is this the Scottish manager of the year you are talking about?

The current one yes and credit to him for that. Hopefully he gave the trophy to Eremenko as a thank you or to the SPL for voting for it February:agree:

[hibs0666]

The current one yes and credit to him for that. Hopefully he gave the trophy to Eremenko as a thank you or to the SPL for voting for it February:agree:

Yup, one if his strengths is picking good players.

[BEEJ]

It's not fixed now though is it?

My point is that if you let the same guy work through it you are probably going to get out of it at the other end a wee bit quicker and with better long term results with less change.
Let's consider then the scenario where Yogi was in fact kept on last Autumn, following which every result in this last season went exactly the same way, with Hibs finishing 10th.

Would you have entrusted Yogi with another summer transfer window after him having royally c0cked up the last one?

How much longer would you have given Yogi at the helm to sink or swim? (Bear in mind, by this point under him we would have endured over 15 months of crap football and even worse results.)

When, in your view, has a Manager used up all his chances? What indicators of progress would you consider? And where would you draw the line?

[Winston Ingram]

Yup, one if his strengths is picking good players.

Aye. Real strength. He's got a great track record of that as well and he brought loads of them here.

Obviously Eremenko was down to his eagle eye for a talent and nowt to do with the fact he was his mate:wink:

[Andy74]

Let's consider then the scenario where Yogi was in fact kept on last Autumn, following which every result in this last season went exactly the same way, with Hibs finishing 10th.

Would you have entrusted Yogi with another summer transfer window after him having royally c0cked up the last one?

How much longer would you have given Yogi at the helm to sink or swim? (Bear in mind, by this point under him we would have endured over 15 months of crap football and even worse results.)

When, in your view, has a Manager used up all his chances? What indicators of progress would you consider? And where would you draw the line?

If Hughes had seen out the rest of the season, brought in a further seven players as we did in January and ended up with the same results then it would be nearer time to consider him going, yes.

We won't know either way but I think we could have picked up and gathered more points than we ultimately did.