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Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 08:23 AM
Hearing that CC is wanting to have a 20 man squad next season.....

Is this his own idea, or are the Board telling him this....

When you look at our current numbers, with a couple of possible players leaving, it leaves about 3 new players to come in.....

Are we really going to go into the new campaign with only 3 more players and relying heavily on youth? Time for the whole Club to wake up and rethink their strategy or more depressing results await next season I fear....

Purehibee_MYB
12-05-2011, 08:32 AM
I would really hope it's more than 3 new faces...otherwise next season will go a lot like the last :rolleyes:

Baker9
12-05-2011, 08:43 AM
Hearing that CC is wanting to have a 20 man squad next season.....

Is this his own idea, or are the Board telling him this....When you look at our current numbers, with a couple of possible players leaving, it leaves about 3 new players to come in.....

Are we really going to go into the new campaign with only 3 more players and relying heavily on youth? Time for the whole Club to wake up and rethink their strategy or more depressing results await next season I fear....

I suspect it is a bit of both. As a strategy it really makes sense. The extent of our ambition over the last decade has been to finish third and how often have we heard fans, players and management talk about that as if it is an achievement.

We have to break the financial mould and change how we have been trying to get a really good team on the field. I suspect that CC has said he can do this with the backing of the board and the fans and it involves fewer players ultimately better paid, and build your own youngsters. If 3 new players is the likely intake then hopefully at least 2 will be significantly experienced.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 08:43 AM
1 point out of the last five games against bottom six clubs....

1 win in 9 matches....

Startling stats indeed.....

AlbertK86
12-05-2011, 08:44 AM
i agree one hundred percent. Anybody at easter road that thinks three more signings can drag us up is deluded... Especially if they are the names being banded about from first division. I honestly don't believe the names mentioned would be the managers first pick. More a case of the board telling him that is the wages we can afford. I know he would have been told we had little money when he came to us but i'll bet he didn't reckon on it being this tight. Cheap options all the way. Why else keep players like stevenson who is a good lad but unfortunately never going to make the grade at this level. He hardly got a game until he signed new contract

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 08:54 AM
The way I interpreted it was 20 players mixed of first teamers, and squad players, with a focus on less quantity with more quality, with the addition to youth players like we say yesterday. Assuming those that havent signed as yet arent staying:

Meaning:

GK: Divis, Brown

DR: Hart,
DL: Booth, Stevenson
DC: Hanlon
DC: Stephens

MR: Wotherspoon, De Graff
CM: Thornhill, Murray
CM: Palsson, Scott
LM: Galbraith

ST: Sodje
ST:

Thats 15, which would leave room for 5 signings, and I have serious doubts that Hart or De Graff will still be here despite their contracts, which would allow 7.

From the list above, it is obvious that in terms of the first XI, we need

- a new Dominant Cb
- a right back, would like Towell
- a pacey winger, would like Aluko
- a pacey goalscoring forward to partner Sodje, would like Rooney or Griffiths (on loan)

all of which are reasonable both financially and realistically IMO

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 08:56 AM
i agree one hundred percent. Anybody at easter road that thinks three more signings can drag us up is deluded... Especially if they are the names being banded about from first division. I honestly don't believe the names mentioned would be the managers first pick. More a case of the board telling him that is the wages we can afford. I know he would have been told we had little money when he came to us but i'll bet he didn't reckon on it being this tight. Cheap options all the way. Why else keep players like stevenson who is a good lad but unfortunately never going to make the grade at this level. He hardly got a game until he signed new contract

Yet the Board keeping saying that they don't lack ambition???????

number9dream
12-05-2011, 08:58 AM
If you add Dickoh, Towell, Horner, Taggart & Sproule to that list, you've got 20. Gulp!

smurf
12-05-2011, 09:02 AM
IMHO too many of us are incorrectly believing that this summer will see an influx of quality...

The money quite obviously isn't there. The board are fast running out of ideas and money.

Though its not their responsibility is it?

Dirkster23
12-05-2011, 09:09 AM
IMHO too many of us are incorrectly believing that this summer will see an influx of quality...

The money quite obviously isn't there. The board are fast running out of ideas and money.

Though its not their responsibility is it?#

How do you know that? Have you any real idea what CC's budget is in the summer?

The board have always backed their manager, what makes you so confident they won't this time?

smurf
12-05-2011, 09:18 AM
#

How do you know that? Have you any real idea what CC's budget is in the summer?

The board have always backed their manager, what makes you so confident they won't this time?

The board have always backed the manager?

Much much more quality has gone out the door than in the door. Surely this is a point of view that can't be disputed?

No arguement from me on selling the quality for excellent fees. No arguement from me that we didn't reinvest all the fees. That unfortunately is unrealistic and ridiculous.

However, the key question is did we really try to sensibly reinvest the fees to a realistic level in order to get further return on investment?

Brian Kerr replaced Scott Brown. And we didn't even attempt to replace David Murphy...

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 09:19 AM
The board have always backed the manager?

Much much more quality has gone out the door than in the door. Surely this is a point of view that can't be disputed?

No arguement from me on selling the quality for excellent fees. No arguement from me that we didn't reinvest all the fees. That unfortunately is unrealistic and ridiculous.

However, the key question is did we really try to sensibly reinvest the fees to a realistic level in order to get further return on investment?

Brian Kerr replaced Scott Brown. And we didn't even attempt to replace David Murphy...

Akin to selling a BMW and replacing it with a lada.....

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 09:22 AM
IMHO too many of us are incorrectly believing that this summer will see an influx of quality...

The money quite obviously isn't there. The board are fast running out of ideas and money.

Though its not their responsibility is it?

Although I cannot remember when, im pretty sure that there has been some form of confirmation over the wage budget staying the same for next year, but with turnover hoping to be raised in order to lower the TO to wage %.

If this is the case, then with the amount of unquestionable high earners that have left since the beginning of last summer:

- Stokes, Zemmama, Bamba, Miller, Riordan

along with the squad players that would have been on a decent wage:

- Stack, Smith, Dickoh, Thicot, Rankin, McBride, Grounds, Nish, Duffy, Trakys etc

theres been a huge downturn in that wage budget, with perhaps Palsson, De Graff and Hart coming in with a sizeable wage, and as previously mentioned, I have my doubts of the latter two's future.

With this in mind, I think its fair to expect a decent amount of quality to be coming into the club in the summer, especially enough to compete for 3rd in the league, because although we'll never have a comparable budget to the OF or Hearts, we are in a much better position than anyone else. A prime example of this is going to be Utd's inability to replace Bauben, Gomis, Goodwillie and Conway, Killie's with Sammon and Eremenko, etc etc.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 09:22 AM
The way I interpreted it was 20 players mixed of first teamers, and squad players, with a focus on less quantity with more quality, with the addition to youth players like we say yesterday. Assuming those that havent signed as yet arent staying:

Meaning:

GK: Divis, Brown

DR: Hart,
DL: Booth, Stevenson
DC: Hanlon
DC: Stephens

MR: Wotherspoon, De Graff
CM: Thornhill, Murray
CM: Palsson, Scott
LM: Galbraith

ST: Sodje
ST:

Thats 15, which would leave room for 5 signings, and I have serious doubts that Hart or De Graff will still be here despite their contracts, which would allow 7.

From the list above, it is obvious that in terms of the first XI, we need

- a new Dominant Cb
- a right back, would like Towell
- a pacey winger, would like Aluko
- a pacey goalscoring forward to partner Sodje, would like Rooney or Griffiths (on loan)

all of which are reasonable both financially and realistically IMO

This will also include Crawford, Handling, Taggart and Smith...Also contracts have been offered to Dickoh and Miller which are currently being negotiated...

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 09:24 AM
This will also include Crawford, Handling, Taggart and Smith...Also contracts have been offered to Dickoh and Miller which are currently being negotiated...

As i said in that post, I dont think the youngsters will be included in the 20 man squad of first teamers, they will be on the outside competing to get in. Id be very happy if Miller stayed, and although I cant say the same for Dickoh, he'd make a decent enough squad player.

Off topic, but any news on Sean Welsh's contract status?

down the slope
12-05-2011, 09:25 AM
Yet the Board keeping saying that they don't lack ambition???????

Depends what their ambition is !, i think they lack brains.

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 09:35 AM
The board have always backed the manager?

Much much more quality has gone out the door than in the door. Surely this is a point of view that can't be disputed?

No arguement from me on selling the quality for excellent fees. No arguement from me that we didn't reinvest all the fees. That unfortunately is unrealistic and ridiculous.

However, the key question is did we really try to sensibly reinvest the fees to a realistic level in order to get further return on investment?

Brian Kerr replaced Scott Brown. And we didn't even attempt to replace David Murphy...

Or you could argue, that although not immediate, they signed Liam Miller, who certainly had the CV to fill the void in the team

Or Stokes for Fletcher

smurf
12-05-2011, 09:42 AM
Or you could argue, that although not immediate, they signed Liam Miller, who certainly had the CV to fill the void in the team

Or Stokes for Fletcher

Then Trakys and Duffy for Stokes.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 09:46 AM
As i said in that post, I dont think the youngsters will be included in the 20 man squad of first teamers, they will be on the outside competing to get in. Id be very happy if Miller stayed, and although I cant say the same for Dickoh, he'd make a decent enough squad player.

Off topic, but any news on Sean Welsh's contract status?

Not sure Rhys

stokesmessiah
12-05-2011, 09:47 AM
The board have always backed the manager?

Much much more quality has gone out the door than in the door. Surely this is a point of view that can't be disputed?

No arguement from me on selling the quality for excellent fees. No arguement from me that we didn't reinvest all the fees. That unfortunately is unrealistic and ridiculous.

However, the key question is did we really try to sensibly reinvest the fees to a realistic level in order to get further return on investment?

Brian Kerr replaced Scott Brown. And we didn't even attempt to replace David Murphy...


Smurf in sack the board shocker !!!

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 09:47 AM
Depends what their ambition is !, i think they lack brains.

:agree::agree::greengrin

smurf
12-05-2011, 10:12 AM
Smurf in sack the board shocker !!!

Not what I said or have ever said.

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 10:28 AM
Akin to selling a BMW and replacing it with a lada.....

Thats true for every club though, even the obvious 3. Can you name me a club from the rest, who have sold a player/s probably their best player/s, and replaced them with better?

How is it Hibs can have up to 3 times more spending power than some of the teams above us, spend that money yet still be poorer than those clubs?

If you think thats down to the board then we will disagree, i think its down to who they appoint as manager, and thats down to the board.

Stevie Reid
12-05-2011, 10:33 AM
Thats true for every club though, even the obvious 3. Can you name me a club from the rest, who have sold a player/s probably their best player/s, and replaced them with better?

How is it Hibs can have up to 3 times more spending power than some of the teams above us, spend that money yet still be poorer than those clubs?

If you think thats down to the board then we will disagree, i think its down to who they appoint as manager, and thats down to the board.

Man Utd sold Ronaldo for £70M, largely put that fee towards their debts and got Chicarito for £6M. I appreciate that it is an extreme example and that £6M is still a lot of money and that Man Utd have a worldwide scouting network - but we can do similar at the level we are at.

The poor quality of our signings in the last 4 years has not been down to poor wages - the wages on offer since 2007 would have been much bigger than what Mowbray had to play with. They have just been poor signings.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Thats true for every club though, even the obvious 3. Can you name me a club from the rest, who have sold a player/s probably their best player/s, and replaced them with better?

How is it Hibs can have up to 3 times more spending power than some of the teams above us, spend that money yet still be poorer than those clubs?

If you think thats down to the board then we will disagree, i think its down to who they appoint as manager, and thats down to the board.

The Board's record of bringing in the right man for the job is appalling, you only have to count how many managers we have had in the last ten years.....

As for players being brought in that is down to both Manager and the Board...Was Akpo Sodje CC's fisrt choice, no more like 4th or 5th, why is that? I would hazard a guess at the contracts being offered

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Man Utd sold Ronaldo for £70M, largely put that fee towards their debts and got Chicarito for £6M. I appreciate that it is an extreme example and that £6M is still a lot of money and that Man Utd have a worldwide scouting network - but we can do similar at the level we are at.

The poor quality of our signings in the last 4 years has not been down to poor wages - the wages on offer since 2007 would have been much bigger than what Mowbray had to play with. They have just been poor signings.

Yip spot on, get a manager who knows what he's doing and he will deliver.

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 11:03 AM
Then Trakys and Duffy for Stokes.

Both of which were signed with days remaining of the window, IMO we cant judge the board for replacing those that leave with people that somewhat fill that void without a proper window to do so, January is far too much of an emergency window, with inflated fees.

smurf
12-05-2011, 11:46 AM
Both of which were signed with days remaining of the window, IMO we cant judge the board for replacing those that leave with people that somewhat fill that void without a proper window to do so, January is far too much of an emergency window, with inflated fees.

It was pretty much known on here and elsewhere Stokes was off to Celtc last summer yet no provisions were made for his loss of goals.. It was pretty much known on here and elsewhere that Hughes was a complete disaster...

The board have ultimate responsibility.

If the Government mucks up in a big way where does responsibility ultimately fall? Never the Prime/First Minister?

Need to remember that one...

Franck is God
12-05-2011, 11:59 AM
GK: Divis, Brown

DR: Hart,
DL: Booth, Stevenson
DC: Hanlon
DC: Stephens

MR: Wotherspoon, De Graff
CM: Thornhill, Murray
CM: Palsson, Scott
LM: Galbraith

ST: Sodje
ST:




CC will be looking for 20 players capable of holding down a first team place, he's already shown that he is not afraid to leave players out or even discard them completely if they're not good enough.

I think he'll happily allow Murray, Hart & De Graff leave in the summer should any kind of offer come in but even if they are here next season its not the end of the world.

He's already expressed an interest in keeping Towell and Dickoh, maybe he feels that if they are still at ER next season we have enough cover at the back using players from the youth team and the likes of Murray, Palsson and Stevenson covering when needed.

Other than that I only see forwards arriving, guys with pace and strength that can play left and right.

BEEJ
12-05-2011, 12:12 PM
As i said in that post, I dont think the youngsters will be included in the 20 man squad of first teamers, they will be on the outside competing to get in. Id be very happy if Miller stayed, and although I cant say the same for Dickoh, he'd make a decent enough squad player.

Off topic, but any news on Sean Welsh's contract status?
These youngsetrs are listed on the official site as first team squad members. They have graduated from the U-19s and now have contracts confirming their senior status.

It would be reassuring to know that CC has a different definition of 'first team squad' and that he was not including these younger lads in his 'around 20' statement; but until we know for sure we have to assume that they are part of the picture.

If indeed they are then 3 or 4 new faces is about right, the position only improving if players such as De Graaf and Hart choose to move on.

(And on the subject of younger lads, I'm hopeful that Welsh gets a new contract. But that won't help the above figures!)

Jamesie
12-05-2011, 12:35 PM
How much do you think the average yearly salary out of those 20 players would be?

Let's say it is £70k - multiplied by 20 gives a wage bill (excluding bonuses etc) of £1,400,000.

Say 6500 season tickets at £400 a pop (OK, maybe a bit high given many will be kids) - £2,600,000 - minus VAT - £2,080,000.

So still a surplus there I think - of course, overheads, mortgage, non playing salaries etc needs to be taken into account - would be interesting to see how much advertising, merchandise etc balance off against that and what our accounts will look like next year...

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 01:32 PM
How much do you think the average yearly salary out of those 20 players would be?

Let's say it is £70k - multiplied by 20 gives a wage bill (excluding bonuses etc) of £1,400,000.

Say 6500 season tickets at £400 a pop (OK, maybe a bit high given many will be kids) - £2,600,000 - minus VAT - £2,080,000.

So still a surplus there I think - of course, overheads, mortgage, non playing salaries etc needs to be taken into account - would be interesting to see how much advertising, merchandise etc balance off against that and what our accounts will look like next year...

Current wage to turnover ratio is 67%

smurf
12-05-2011, 01:44 PM
Current wage to turnover ratio is 67%

Players only?:wink:

Spike Mandela
12-05-2011, 02:25 PM
#

How do you know that? Have you any real idea what CC's budget is in the summer?

The board have always backed their manager, what makes you so confident they won't this time?

The old corporate speak ' board have always backed the manager'. Every board at every club in the country will say they backed the manager, it's the level of backing that's important.

One thing I can say for certain in recent years is large income has come in for players going out and a small fraction of that has been spent on the team. The downward spiral of quality in playing staff has been proportional to that and is due to bottom out shortly I would expect.

I seriously fear a few more years of desperate stuff on offer along the lines of the demise of Aberdeen as a football team.

It really is time for a change in direction and possibly ownership at ER but with that understandably not going to happen I really see no hope for optimism for next season or beyond.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 02:28 PM
The old corporate speak ' board have always backed the manager'. Every board at every club in the country will say they backed the manager, it's the level of backing that's important.

One thing I can say for certain in recent years is large income has come in for players going out and a small fraction of that has been spent on the team. The downward spiral of quality in playing staff has been proportional to that and is due to bottom out shortly I would expect.

I seriously fear a few more years of desperate stuff on offer along the lines of the demise of Aberdeen as a football team.

It really is time for a change in direction and possibly ownership at ER but with that understandably not going to happen I really see no hope for optimism for next season or beyond.

Spot on Spike

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 02:35 PM
The Board's record of bringing in the right man for the job is appalling, you only have to count how many managers we have had in the last ten years.....

As for players being brought in that is down to both Manager and the Board...Was Akpo Sodje CC's fisrt choice, no more like 4th or 5th, why is that? I would hazard a guess at the contracts being offered

I have no idea just what choice Sodje was, but i'd imagine all clubs have targets they miss out on. I'd also say we spend much more than St johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness Kilmarnock and even Dundee Utd.

Do these clubs get their first choice picks, or do they miss out and get 4th 5th or 6th choice?

The manager is employed to get the best players to easter road within our budget. If that budget is 2 sometimes 3 times more than those who are above us in the league, how is that the boards fault, other than who they appointed as manager?

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 02:52 PM
I have no idea just what choice Sodje was, but i'd imagine all clubs have targets they miss out on. I'd also say we spend much more than St johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness Kilmarnock and even Dundee Utd.

Do these clubs get their first choice picks, or do they miss out and get 4th 5th or 6th choice?

The manager is employed to get the best players to easter road within our budget. If that budget is 2 sometimes 3 times more than those who are above us in the league, how is that the boards fault, other than who they appointed as manager?

So are you happy with the level of investment the Board make for playing staff?

Hamish
12-05-2011, 03:00 PM
Most clubs in the SPL will have to 'downsize' next season, probably including the residents of EH11. You can see by the numbers of players released by Championship and First Div. clubs in England that they are also feeling the pinch and I would think with his knowledge of the English scene CC will already have, with the 'help' of some agents, sounded out a handful of these lads to see if they are interested in coming up here.
Thomson at Burnley was mentioned to me a few weeks back as a possible, but I would have thought wages would have been a problem, plus he has had a season blighted with injuries.
I would think maximum we would see is 4 new signings, perhaps 5 if we include Ivan - a CB, a RB, a creative midfielder and a striker.

SouthamptonHibs
12-05-2011, 03:01 PM
The way I interpreted it was 20 players mixed of first teamers, and squad players, with a focus on less quantity with more quality, with the addition to youth players like we say yesterday. Assuming those that havent signed as yet arent staying:

Meaning:

GK: Divis, Brown

DR: Hart,
DL: Booth, Stevenson
DC: Hanlon
DC: Stephens

MR: Wotherspoon, De Graff
CM: Thornhill, Murray
CM: Palsson, Scott
LM: Galbraith

ST: Sodje
ST:

Thats 15, which would leave room for 5 signings, and I have serious doubts that Hart or De Graff will still be here despite their contracts, which would allow 7.

From the list above, it is obvious that in terms of the first XI, we need

- a new Dominant Cb
- a right back, would like Towell
- a pacey winger, would like Aluko
- a pacey goalscoring forward to partner Sodje, would like Rooney or Griffiths (on loan)

all of which are reasonable both financially and realistically IMO


If we keep those players stated above and only sign another 5 we'll need them to be EPL class players not bottom 6 class players in SPL!!
That squad is ubber garbage...we need to shift most of these guys out! Galbraith, Stevenson, Hart and De Graff! Murray can't get in the current team is he finished, hope not but CC's not playing him?
When's Hanlon going to become good? i've been waiting 4 years and i'm still no inspired (no big clubs have come in for him yet) and Wotherspoon needs a big season, he's not played a decent game all season. Our young pups ain't as good as previous crops in past seasons...our signing strategy only works if we produce quality young players.
On a plus note Booth looks exciting and has potential to be a great player...more players like him required

hail hail

Stevie Reid
12-05-2011, 03:16 PM
When's Hanlon going to become good? i've been waiting 4 years and i'm still no inspired (no big clubs have come in for him yet)

Easy, Hanlon has not long turned 21, has played around 65 games for Hibs and rarely let us down. Whilst I'm not convinced he'll make us millions, I'm pretty sure that he's good enough to be our centre half for his best years at least.

The board get slaughtered by many on here for selling all of our best players, yet you're dismissing Hanlon because no one's put in a bid for him at the age of 21.

Cocaine&Caviar
12-05-2011, 03:26 PM
When's Hanlon going to become good? i've been waiting 4 years and i'm still no inspired (no big clubs have come in for him yet)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jan/14/liverpool-paul-hanlon-st-johnstone-transfer-window

:greengrin

SouthamptonHibs
12-05-2011, 03:28 PM
Easy, Hanlon has not long turned 21, has played around 65 games for Hibs and rarely let us down. Whilst I'm not convinced he'll make us millions, I'm pretty sure that he's good enough to be our centre half for his best years at least.

The board get slaughtered by many on here for selling all of our best players, yet you're dismissing Hanlon because no one's put in a bid for him at the age of 21.

Happy the club show commitment to the young players, but i'd suggest that was more to do with the club hope to flog him on as he's not attracted any interest from the "big boys". Trust me if Rodders could make money out of him he'd be off...
I'm just not overly inspired by him he seems to have been around for a while, maybe he's looking worse due to this poor young team we have time will tell. He's defo not the man to be leading a backline who are all around 20 year old (stephens, Divis, Towell, Booth etc). How we've got a backline that young with no decent experienced players in there to help them out will need addressed i think.

Stevie Reid
12-05-2011, 03:31 PM
Happy the club show commitment to the young players, but i'd suggest that was more to do with the club hope to flog him on as he's not attracted any interest from the "big boys". Trust me if Rodders could make money out of him he'd be off...
I'm just not overly inspired by him he seems to have been around for a while, maybe he's looking worse due to this poor young team we have time will tell. He's defo not the man to be leading a backline who are all around 20 year old (stephens, Divis, Towell, Booth etc). How we've got a backline that young with no decent experienced players in there to help them out will need addressed i think.

I'm under no illusions that he'll be sold if a good offer comes in, 5 year deal should be good business on that front.

He needs help but there are good signs with Hanlon.

Mikey
12-05-2011, 03:32 PM
For those who have forgotten it again. Already.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?209265-Sponsors-Night

SouthamptonHibs
12-05-2011, 03:33 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jan/14/liverpool-paul-hanlon-st-johnstone-transfer-window

:greengrin

Cheers forgot about that article from 2009
2011 he's still a Hibby

Hail Hail

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 03:33 PM
So are you happy with the level of investment the Board make for playing staff?

I am happy to spend twice or three times what a lot of our competitors do.If we were spending the same as all those clubs above us bar the top3 i'd want to know why? How much more should we be spending before its the manmagers fault we are underachieving?

Stevie Reid
12-05-2011, 03:35 PM
I am happy to spend twice or three times what a lot of our competitors do.If we were spending the same as all those clubs above us bar the top3 i'd want to know why? How much more should we be spending before its the manmagers fault we are underachieving?

If the league table simply broke down by who spends the most, we'd be comfortably in the top 6.

Mikey
12-05-2011, 03:43 PM
If the league table simply broke down by who spends the most, we'd be comfortably in the top 6.

And would have for some time.

We really should be consistently higher up the league and getting further in the cups than we have been.

Hopefully now the infrastructure is in place....................

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 04:27 PM
If the league table simply broke down by who spends the most, we'd be comfortably in the top 6.

Exactly, we have been spending way more than a lot of our competitors, yet those who are asking for more cant tell us how much more we should be spending to finish above these teams?

Getting the right manager would help.

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 04:36 PM
Exactly, we have been spending way more than a lot of our competitors, yet those who are asking for more cant tell us how much more we should be spending to finish above these teams?

Getting the right manager would help.

So have you written off CC already?

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 05:45 PM
So have you written off CC already?

I dont think he's anything special, although thats deflecting away from what you were asking earlier. You want the club to invest more money, if we are spending twice and 3 times more than clubs who are finishing above us, just how much more should we spend, and where is this money coming from?

sahib
12-05-2011, 06:33 PM
I am happy to spend twice or three times what a lot of our competitors do.If we were spending the same as all those clubs above us bar the top3 i'd want to know why? How much more should we be spending before its the manmagers fault we are underachieving?

We may be spending more but perhaps we are still in the same band and we need to spend a far greater amount to increase the probablity of an improvment in the quality. A sort of quantum approach.:wink:

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 06:38 PM
We may be spending more but perhaps we are still in the same band and we need to spend a far greater amount to increase the probablity of an improvment in the quality. A sort of quantum approach.:wink:

:greengrin or we just might be employing managers who dont know their arse from their elbows?:wink:

Baldy Foghorn
12-05-2011, 06:42 PM
I dont think he's anything special, although thats deflecting away from what you were asking earlier. You want the club to invest more money, if we are spending twice and 3 times more than clubs who are finishing above us, just how much more should we spend, and where is this money coming from?

I am asking for a relatively small investment, but one which will entice fans back through the gates.....Say the spend half a million on 3 quality players at 2.5k per week.....There is money there, we need to be less frugal than we are

Cameron1875
12-05-2011, 07:03 PM
Then Trakys and Duffy for Stokes.


Or you could argue, that although not immediate, they signed Liam Miller, who certainly had the CV to fill the void in the team

Or Stokes for Fletcher

Another one was Whittaker who wasnt replaced as Collins felt Kevin mccann was good enough. Whether he was instructed by the board to tell the fans this remains to be seen.

blackpoolhibs
12-05-2011, 09:57 PM
I am asking for a relatively small investment, but one which will entice fans back through the gates.....Say the spend half a million on 3 quality players at 2.5k per week.....There is money there, we need to be less frugal than we are

Have we not already done this, O'brien Miller and Riordan Maka Stokes? I cant imagine Palsson and thornhill have come cheap either. The crowds fairly rushed back when they signed. How is it lesser teams in terms of spending are outplaying us?

This money you say is there, how much is it and who should we sign that would do as you say?

And what happens if its not the roaring success you envisage? Is it another new manager and we start the progress all over again?

matty_f
12-05-2011, 10:26 PM
Have we not already done this, O'brien Miller and Riordan Maka Stokes? I cant imagine Palsson and thornhill have come cheap either. The crowds fairly rushed back when they signed. How is it lesser teams in terms of spending are outplaying us?

This money you say is there, how much is it and who should we sign that would do as you say?

And what happens if its not the roaring success you envisage? Is it another new manager and we start the progress all over again?

This one has been done to death. There is no more money! Without player sales we'd have hit a loss. It's not as easy as going to the bank and asking for a million pound overdraft - banks are very reluctant to lend to football clubs, especially I'd imagine, those with virtually no disposable income annually.

We brought in the players you mentioned, yet that gets roundly ignored by those that don't want to acknowledge it. We spend more than other teams that perform better than us, and we spend to the extent that if we didn't sell players we're losing money.

Unless we get a big cash injection from somewhere, more spending ain't going to happen, simply because the money isn't there!

The Tubs
12-05-2011, 10:33 PM
This one has been done to death. There is no more money! Without player sales we'd have hit a loss. It's not as easy as going to the bank and asking for a million pound overdraft - banks are very reluctant to lend to football clubs, especially I'd imagine, those with virtually no disposable income annually.

We brought in the players you mentioned, yet that gets roundly ignored by those that don't want to acknowledge it. We spend more than other teams that perform better than us, and we spend to the extent that if we didn't sell players we're losing money.

Unless we get a big cash injection from somewhere, more spending ain't going to happen, simply because the money isn't there!

No offence, but ****** the money. Even if season tickets sales fall dramatically, let's use that 7,000 who would always commit to build a solid base. Fitba' in Scotland needs some baws.

matty_f
12-05-2011, 10:53 PM
No offence, but ****** the money. Even if season tickets sales fall dramatically, let's use that 7,000 who would always commit to build a solid base. Fitba' in Scotland needs some baws.

No offence, but that just doesn't make sense.

How far are 7k season tickets going to get us? Nowhere, is the answer. We need far more than 7k fans to build a solid base, with the best will in the world it would be great if we could but between 9-10k season ticket holders got us the team we've been watching the last few years, take 3000 times 400-odd quid away from that and look at the players we could get. :bitchy:

The Tubs
12-05-2011, 11:04 PM
No offence, but that just doesn't make sense.

How far are 7k season tickets going to get us? Nowhere, is the answer. We need far more than 7k fans to build a solid base, with the best will in the world it would be great if we could but between 9-10k season ticket holders got us the team we've been watching the last few years, take 3000 times 400-odd quid away from that and look at the players we could get. :bitchy:

It's more than most spl teams. Ultimately it's all about fans' expectations. I would love a john majoresque back to basics approach: **** the salaries and let's play for th jersey. Rip it up.

D.I.R.E.C.T F.R.O.M C.LO.U.D C.O.C.O.L.A.ND.

matty_f
12-05-2011, 11:31 PM
It's more than most spl teams. Ultimately it's all about fans' expectations. I would love a john majoresque back to basics approach:**** the salaries and let's play for th jersey. Rip it up.

D.I.R.E.C.T F.R.O.M C.LO.U.D C.O.C.O.L.A.ND.

Would love to see that too, to be fair.:agree:

Spike Mandela
13-05-2011, 10:02 AM
This one has been done to death. There is no more money! Without player sales we'd have hit a loss. It's not as easy as going to the bank and asking for a million pound overdraft - banks are very reluctant to lend to football clubs, especially I'd imagine, those with virtually no disposable income annually.

We brought in the players you mentioned, yet that gets roundly ignored by those that don't want to acknowledge it. We spend more than other teams that perform better than us, and we spend to the extent that if we didn't sell players we're losing money.

Unless we get a big cash injection from somewhere, more spending ain't going to happen, simply because the money isn't there!

So why do we bother Matty or mores to the point why should we bother?

Why invest our time and money in something that ain't going to improve or provide any entertainment?

blackpoolhibs
13-05-2011, 10:05 AM
So why do we bother Matty or mores to the point why should we bother.

Why invest our time and money in something that ain't going to improve or provide any entertainment?

Why does anyone bother, there's only 2 teams that can win the league?

What part of paying 2 and 3 times more than most of our competitors cant folk understand, yet we still flounder behind them?

How much more should we be spending than we can afford?

Spike Mandela
13-05-2011, 10:23 AM
Why does anyone bother, there's only 2 teams that can win the league?

What part of paying 2 and 3 times more than most of our competitors cant folk understand, yet we still flounder behind them?

How much more should we be spending than we can afford?

We all understand it, it's been done to death for god knows how many years. WE HAVE NO MONEY!

So what is the lure that HFC puts out for fans to attend? Here's Rod's sales pitch..........

"We have no money, we don't play attractive football, we don't challenge in any competition, we will only sign Bosmans, we will not pay a high wage for a star player, if we rear a good player we will sell as soon as his value peaks, we will let other teams pass us off the park, our manager lacks any kind of infectious charisma, we will change our manager every 18 months, we will contrive to lose to our bitter rivals as often as possible, we will keep comments from the board to a minimum and generally strive to make Hibernian football club the most BORING on the planet......now give us your £400"

Stevie Reid
13-05-2011, 10:30 AM
We all understand it, it's been done to death for god knows how many years. WE HAVE NO MONEY!

So what is the lure that HFC puts out for fans to attend? Here's Rod's sales pitch..........

"We have no money, we don't play attractive football, we don't challenge in any competition, we will only sign Bosmans, we will not pay a high wage for a star player, if we rear a good player we will sell as soon as his value peaks, we will let other teams pass us off the park, our manager lacks any kind of infectious charisma, we will change our manager every 18 months, we will contrive to lose to our bitter rivals as often as possible, we will keep comments from the board to a minimum and generally strive to make Hibernian football club the most BORING on the planet......now give us your £400"

Signing a player on a Bosman does not indicate a lack of quality, loads of players let their contracts run down as they're more likely to get an attractive offer and bigger signing on fee from a club if there's no transfer fee involved. Some of the best players in the world have moved on Bosman transfers.

Incidentally, we have paid fees for a few players in the last few years.

Spike Mandela
13-05-2011, 10:38 AM
We all understand it, it's been done to death for god knows how many years. WE HAVE NO MONEY!

So what is the lure that HFC puts out for fans to attend? Here's Rod's sales pitch..........

"We have no money, we don't play attractive football, we don't challenge in any competition, we will generally only sign Bosmans unless we can negotiate 150 k deals or less to get a player, we will not pay a high wage for a star player, if we rear a good player we will sell as soon as his value peaks, we will let other teams pass us off the park, our manager lacks any kind of infectious charisma, we will change our manager every 18 months, we will contrive to lose to our bitter rivals as often as possible, we will keep comments from the board to a minimum and generally strive to make Hibernian football club the most BORING on the planet......now give us your £400"

Fixed it for you Steve:wink:

Stevie Reid
13-05-2011, 10:48 AM
Fixed it for you Steve:wink:

Ha. Let's be honest, thank **** we didn't pay much more for Makalamby and O'Brien! (Although I always believe the figure to be a quarter of a million for each)

Whilst I'm certainly not denying that a big money transfer would generate excitement and most likely more ST sales, lots have teams have been stung by expensive transfers in the past, and I have no problem with Hibs being reluctant to do it. I'd rather my ST money was spent securing good Bosmans.

blackpoolhibs
13-05-2011, 10:53 AM
We all understand it, it's been done to death for god knows how many years. WE HAVE NO MONEY! So what is the lure that HFC puts out for fans to attend? Here's Rod's sales pitch..........

"We have no money, we don't play attractive football, we don't challenge in any competition, we will only sign Bosmans, we will not pay a high wage for a star player, if we rear a good player we will sell as soon as his value peaks, we will let other teams pass us off the park, our manager lacks any kind of infectious charisma, we will change our manager every 18 months, we will contrive to lose to our bitter rivals as often as possible, we will keep comments from the board to a minimum and generally strive to make Hibernian football club the most BORING on the planet......now give us your £400"

Thats a myth, we do have money. We spend it each season, 2 or 3 times more than teams above us spend. How do these teams finish above us?

Spike Mandela
13-05-2011, 11:02 AM
Thats a myth, we do have money. We spend it each season, 2 or 3 times more than teams above us spend. How do these teams finish above us?

2 or 3 times zero is zero. 2 or 3 times very little is still very little!

League placings will always fluctuate, we are unlikely to always finish 3rd but surely for the money we spend we should expect an exciting game every now and again.

Arch Stanton
13-05-2011, 11:06 AM
2 or 3 times zero is zero. 2 or 3 times very little is still very little!

League placings will always fluctuate, we are unlikely to always finish 3rd but surely for the money we spend we should expect an exciting game every now and again.

So we're agreed then - money isn't the answer. :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
13-05-2011, 11:13 AM
2 or 3 times zero is zero. 2 or 3 times very little is still very little!

League placings will always fluctuate, we are unlikely to always finish 3rd but surely for the money we spend we should expect an exciting game every now and again.

Ah so those players on £500 a week are just as good as those on £1500. And those on £1k a week are just as good as those on £3k a week. Why are we paying over the odds for players, thats a question i'd like answered?

Are St Johnstone or Inverness getting any exciting games, or are Motherwell fans not excited about their upcoming cup final?

Spike Mandela
13-05-2011, 11:17 AM
Ah so those players on £500 a week are just as good as those on £1500. And those on £1k a week are just as good as those on £3k a week. Why are we paying over the odds for players, thats a question i'd like answered?

Are St Johnstone or Inverness getting any exciting games, or are Motherwell fans not excited about their upcoming cup final?

Point is BH, irrespective of the reason why Hibs are crap, why do you , I or anybody else bother going to see this team that is withering on the vine?

blackpoolhibs
13-05-2011, 11:34 AM
Point is BH, irrespective of the reason why Hibs are crap, why do you , I or anybody else bother going to see this team that is withering on the vine?

I go because its in the blood, i'd imagine thats why a lot of us go. Irrespective of why we go, we want excitement good football and a winning team. What more can the club do but spend what they bring in?

Do any of us want to get further in debt, and how much?

We can all point the fingers at who's responsible for the position we find ourselves in. We can all say we shouldnt have built the stand or the training centre.

The thing is they have been built, we cant demolish them and get our money back, its done we look forward not back.

The board appoint the manager, its down to him how we do. He has more money to spend than 8 other clubs, a lot more than some. Its down to him to make us better.

If he cant and he's another dumpling, then the board have to look at themselves as to why they are employing duff managers.

If there's another way, could someone explain it to me please?

Stevie Reid
13-05-2011, 11:38 AM
I go because its in the blood, i'd imagine thats why a lot of us go. Irrespective of why we go, we want excitement good football and a winning team. What more can the club do but spend what they bring in?

Do any of us want to get further in debt, and how much?

We can all point the fingers at who's responsible for the position we find ourselves in. We can all say we shouldnt have built the stand or the training centre.

The thing is they have been built, we cant demolish them and get our money back, its done we look forward not back.

The board appoint the manager, its down to him how we do. He has more money to spend than 8 other clubs, a lot more than some. Its down to him to make us better.

If he cant and he's another dumpling, then the board have to look at themselves as to why they are employing duff managers.

If there's another way, could someone explain it to me please?

:agree:

The board are entirely culpable if Calderwood turns out to be another poor appointment, but they cannot be accused of not giving all of these managers the tools to do their job properly. Some managers would kill for the kind of resources and infrastructure on offer at Hibs.

down the slope
13-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I go because its in the blood, i'd imagine thats why a lot of us go. Irrespective of why we go, we want excitement good football and a winning team. What more can the club do but spend what they bring in?

Do any of us want to get further in debt, and how much?

We can all point the fingers at who's responsible for the position we find ourselves in. We can all say we shouldnt have built the stand or the training centre.

The thing is they have been built, we cant demolish them and get our money back, its done we look forward not back.

The board appoint the manager, its down to him how we do. He has more money to spend than 8 other clubs, a lot more than some. Its down to him to make us better.

If he cant and he's another dumpling, then the board have to look at themselves as to why they are employing duff managers.

If there's another way, could someone explain it to me please?

Spot on that man from Lancashire , even the most loyal of board supporters on here must admit that they have appointed a few duds in their time. I don't know if it's because the board are always looking for a bargain in who they appoint or that they just know nowt about football but worst of all in my view a combination of them both. I had hoped that Calderwood would have shown by know even with the level of player that we have that he had some sort of tactical plan and could induce a fighting spirit which other teams seem to manage with less resources than us. Sadly it all looks the same old stuff that we have had for years and the spiral is forever downwards and i think we are at the level of a bad 1st division side or am i being to high in my estimation ?.

matty_f
14-05-2011, 12:30 AM
I go because its in the blood, i'd imagine thats why a lot of us go. Irrespective of why we go, we want excitement good football and a winning team. What more can the club do but spend what they bring in?

Do any of us want to get further in debt, and how much?

We can all point the fingers at who's responsible for the position we find ourselves in. We can all say we shouldnt have built the stand or the training centre.

The thing is they have been built, we cant demolish them and get our money back, its done we look forward not back.

The board appoint the manager, its down to him how we do. He has more money to spend than 8 other clubs, a lot more than some. Its down to him to make us better.

If he cant and he's another dumpling, then the board have to look at themselves as to why they are employing duff managers.

If there's another way, could someone explain it to me please?

:top marks

new malkyhib
14-05-2011, 11:09 AM
Both of which were signed with days remaining of the window, IMO we cant judge the board for replacing those that leave with people that somewhat fill that void without a proper window to do so, January is far too much of an emergency window, with inflated fees.

How can we not judge them on that? Bamba, the first choice CH, was sold on Jan 1, soon as the window opened and on the morning of the Derby. A blind man could've seen that Stokes was going to end up at Celtic - so they had the whole of January to bring in an adequate replacement to fill a void of a guy that had scored 23 goals the previous season.

Who did we get in in their place?

No replacement CH and Trakys and Duffy who have got more clubs on their CV than career goals - inculding a big fat ZERO in the goals scored column for us. Two total waste of wages - yet Petrie's beyond reporach for that?

sesoim
14-05-2011, 07:32 PM
IMHO too many of us are incorrectly believing that this summer will see an influx of quality...

The money quite obviously isn't there. The board are fast running out of ideas and money.

Though its not their responsibility is it?


We are still the 4th best supported club in the league, so surely we should be able to afford the 4th best squad?