How many defeats is this guy allowed then? (MERGED)

[new malkyhib]

We're heading for one point from fifteen against the worst other 5 teams in the league. Two of these defeats against the (now relegated) Hamilton. No derby wins.

No wins against any of the OF at home.

ONE notable victory (away to Rangers) all season.

Other teams talking about their signing targets already - St Johnstone signing Robertson from Dun Utd, a guy who would walk into the Hibs team.

What is going on at OUR club - why the culture of mediocrity pervading the place?

[greenlex]

We're heading for one point from fifteen against the worst other 5 teams in the league. Two of these defeats against the (now relegated) Hamilton. No derby wins.

No wins against any of the OF at home.

ONE notable victory (away to Rangers) all season.

Other teams talking about their signing targets already - St Johnstone signing Robertson from Dun Utd, a guy who would walk into the Hibs team.

What is going on at OUR club - why the culture of mediocrity pervading the place? :rolleyes:

[jws1875]

Why should most of the players try? most of them are getting the boot at the end of the season hence the reason we're getting beat :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

We're heading for one point from fifteen against the worst other 5 teams in the league. Two of these defeats against the (now relegated) Hamilton. No derby wins.

No wins against any of the OF at home.

ONE notable victory (away to Rangers) all season.

Other teams talking about their signing targets already - St Johnstone signing Robertson from Dun Utd, a guy who would walk into the Hibs team.

What is going on at OUR club - why the culture of mediocrity pervading the place?

My take is people have accepted it's all Hughes fault anyway so he's getting the benefit.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Careful what you wish for - we could end up like Aberdeen.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why should most of the players try? most of them are getting the boot at the end of the season hence the reason we're getting beat :rolleyes:


hows about professional pride just to start with ? i imagine they are getting a wage as well

[new malkyhib]

:rolleyes:


:rolleyes: yourself...you happy with the Hibs just now are you?

Or are we just misunderstanding the "grand plan and vision" at Easter Road?

[MWHIBBIES]

Did Mowbray never lose away on a wednesday night in Inverness?

Give him a chance to sign his own players in the summer.

[Gatecrasher]

aye lets sack another manager and start over again because that policy has been working a treat the last few years , how about we get some settled management at the club?

[seven nowt]

What a f****** depressing team to watch. Even when we won 5 games in a row, I never rated Calderwood although I must admit, I saw better than this.

Taggart starting, is it not already depressing enough watching Hibs?

[matty_f]

aye lets sack another manager and start over again because that policy has been working a treat the last few years , how about we get some settled management at the club?

:top marks:

[greenlex]

:rolleyes: yourself...you happy with the Hibs just now are you?

Or are we just misunderstanding the "grand plan and vision" at Easter Road?
Delighted :agree:
Calderwood should be judged after next season. If there is no improvement his position should be looked at not before unless we are in deep relegation trouble. Either that or we could just bullet him and get in who?
Hughes again? No thanks we were heading one way under him.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

I agree CC has to have a chance to completely rebuild the side but it does still worry me that he seems unable to motivate a Hibs team to perform against other teams who have no more to play for, in theory, than us.

[DaveF]

What worries me is that is now becoming the norm to accept, nay expect defeat.

It's a habit and a bad one to get into and while I accept we are perhaps blooding some youngsters and trying different formations, should we not be trying to end the season on a high note with some positivity in mind for the new season?

Whatever way you want to dress it up, 1 point from 15 against the crap of the league is not pretty.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Why should most of the players try? most of them are getting the boot at the end of the season hence the reason we're getting beat :rolleyes:

I presume they're not wanting a job with anyone else either, then!

[bingo70]

We're heading for one point from fifteen against the worst other 5 teams in the league. Two of these defeats against the (now relegated) Hamilton. No derby wins.

No wins against any of the OF at home.

ONE notable victory (away to Rangers) all season.

Other teams talking about their signing targets already - St Johnstone signing Robertson from Dun Utd, a guy who would walk into the Hibs team.

What is going on at OUR club - why the culture of mediocrity pervading the place?

When he took over i'd pretty much written off this season, i never thought we were going to go down so all i wanted from this season was for him to get to know the club, the players and get to the root of the problems because there's something not right here, obviously i'd have prefered us to get good results and performances but as long as he sorts it out for next season then i'll be happy enough.

If it turns out to be a complete failure next season then so be it but nows not the time to be chanigng manager IMO when he's just had the last 6 months or so assessing what needs done.

He's shown in his previous jobs he's not daft and knows the game, i just think we need some more quality in so with a good summer i'm confident things will be a lot better next season.

[ozzie]

i agree, i will judging him on next seasons performances. as of the start of next season it will be cc's team lets see what he does then.

[blackpoolhibs]

Come on, this is all Yogi's fault. How can we expect our new manager to manage someone elses dross?:rolleyes:

[heretoday]

What's happening now with Hibs is not good. Getting beaten every game is not good, even at the end of the season.

The thing is you have to trust the manager to strengthen the side in the summer and start anew.

There is no alternative.

[Andy74]

When he took over i'd pretty much written off this season, i never thought we were going to go down so all i wanted from this season was for him to get to know the club, the players and get to the root of the problems because there's something not right here, obviously i'd have prefered us to get good results and performances but as long as he sorts it out for next season then i'll be happy enough.

If it turns out to be a complete failure next season then so be it but nows not the time to be chanigng manager IMO when he's just had the last 6 months or so assessing what needs done.

He's shown in his previous jobs he's not daft and knows the game, i just think we need some more quality in so with a good summer i'm confident things will be a lot better next season.

We had only played seven games when he arrived and we had been a bit unlucky in those.

I suspect Hughes was sacked due to not having that set of players closer to the European places. Seven new players later and seven months or so later we are picking points up at the same rate we were.

It's not really been a change that has worked.

[HibsMax]

aye lets sack another manager and start over again because that policy has been working a treat the last few years , how about we get some settled management at the club?

No, no, no. That's no good. We need to sack the board and bring someone in who has a proven track record of signing quality managers. LOL.

Joking aside, I'm not in love with Calderwood but I do want him (or whomever else happens to be in charge) to get a fair crack of the whip to build his own team which I personally will define as at least the summer transfer window.

There is no way to sugarcoat the pill, results have been woeful. My head is definitely not in the sand. Different people just have different opinions on how they would handle the same situation.

When my employer identifies a person who is failing to perform, they don't reach for the pink slip (assuming the person is not breaking any rules), they do what they can to help that person, and their team, succeed. It seems that by reading some posts on here that people don't want to take that approach. Any sign of weakness should be met with the harshest possible repercussions. I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to the revolving door mentality. Again, I'm not saying that CC is the man for the job but, IMO, we haven't given him the opportunity to show us what he can do. If results are still the same after, hmmmmm, say the first 10 or so games of the new season, then I will re-evaluate.

But I'm not saying anything I haven't before so rather than bore you any longer.

See ya! :na na:

[Littlest Hobo]

I think the board need to take note of all the empty seats of late at ER. If they don't do some serious work by investing in a few quality players then I think those attendances will become the norm I'm affraid.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was young players we were giving a chance to but all I've witnessed is experienced journey men coming and going who have no feeling for the club whatsoever!

[Gatecrasher]

No, no, no. That's no good. We need to sack the board and bring someone in who has a proven track record of signing quality managers. LOL.

Joking aside, I'm not in love with Calderwood but I do want him (or whomever else happens to be in charge) to get a fair crack of the whip to build his own team which I personally will define as at least the summer transfer window.

There is no way to sugarcoat the pill, results have been woeful. My hand is definitely not in the sand. Different people just have different opinions on how they would handle the same situation.

When my employer identifies a person who is failing to perform, they don't reach for the pink slip (assuming the person is not breaking any rules), they do what they can to help that person, and their team, succeed. It seems that by reading some posts on here that people don't want to take that approach. Any sign of weakness should be met with the harshest possible repercussions. I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to the revolving door mentality. Again, I'm not saying that CC is the man for the job but, IMO, we haven't given him the opportunity to show us what he can do. If results are still the same after, hmmmmm, say the first 10 or so games of the new season, then I will re-evaluate.

But I'm not saying anything I haven't before so rather than bore you any longer.

See ya! :na na:

I agree with most of that I would say longer than 10 games into the new season.

[bingo70]

We had only played seven games when he arrived and we had been a bit unlucky in those.

I suspect Hughes was sacked due to not having that set of players closer to the European places. Seven new players later and seven months or so later we are picking points up at the same rate we were.

It's not really been a change that has worked.

Hughes wasn't sacked because of the start to the season, it was because it was a continuation from last season and there was no indication it was going to get any better, we were a bit unlucky for the first couple of games but as they went on we were getting worse and something had to give.

Either way, regardless of what you thought about Hughes he left a long time ago, it's time to get over that, surely you agree changing a manager 3 days before the end of the season isn't the way to go? He's here now so we need to give him a summer and start to the season (like Hughes got BTW)

[random sub]

Agree, there have to be question marks over Calderwood. All wearing a bit thin and we are in a sorry state. It may take more than a few summer signings to sort this mess.

[HibsMax]

I agree with most of that I would say longer than 10 games into the new season.
I'm not talking about punting him after 10 games, what I mean is that I think he needs at least that time to show us some positive signs. Truth be told, if the signs are positive, even if not every results is, I would give him a full season.

[Winston Ingram]

ffs, lets sack the boy for his team no performing in utterly meaningless games.

Genius:agree:

[Gatecrasher]

I'm not talking about punting him after 10 games, what I mean is that I think he needs at least that time to show us some positive signs. Truth be told, if the signs are positive, even if not every results is, I would give him a full season.

nice one, great minds are thinking alike then :aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

A ****in shambles. Calderwood is no better than what we had, 7 players signed and not one bit of progress. Why should he get anymore money to waste?

[matty_f]

When he took over i'd pretty much written off this season, i never thought we were going to go down so all i wanted from this season was for him to get to know the club, the players and get to the root of the problems because there's something not right here, obviously i'd have prefered us to get good results and performances but as long as he sorts it out for next season then i'll be happy enough.

If it turns out to be a complete failure next season then so be it but nows not the time to be chanigng manager IMO when he's just had the last 6 months or so assessing what needs done.

He's shown in his previous jobs he's not daft and knows the game, i just think we need some more quality in so with a good summer i'm confident things will be a lot better next season.

Good post, bingo.

[HibsMax]

nice one, great minds are thinking alike then :aok:

"Fools seldom differ" is another way of putting it....

:wink:

[Andy74]

Hughes wasn't sacked because of the start to the season, it was because it was a continuation from last season and there was no indication it was going to get any better, we were a bit unlucky for the first couple of games but as they went on we were getting worse and something had to give.

Either way, regardless of what you thought about Hughes he left a long time ago, it's time to get over that, surely you agree changing a manager 3 days before the end of the season isn't the way to go? He's here now so we need to give him a summer and start to the season (like Hughes got BTW)

I'm only saying nothing has changed. Same rate of points gained, only 2 Hughes signings playing tonight.

The criticism is valid now. He's had nearly 8 months and seven new players.

[Winston Ingram]

wtf do people over react like this:confused:

[Dirkster23]

We had only played seven games when he arrived and we had been a bit unlucky in those.

I suspect Hughes was sacked due to not having that set of players closer to the European places. Seven new players later and seven months or so later we are picking points up at the same rate we were.

It's not really been a change that has worked.

I'm getting confused Andy! People are talking rubbish if they suggest we carried luck on Yogi's good run, but you saying he was a bit unlucky at the end :confused:

[HibsMax]

I'm only saying nothing has changed. Same rate of points gained, only 2 Hughes signings playing tonight.

The criticism is valid now. He's had nearly 8 months and seven new players.
So.....

2 players are Yogi's and 7 new players have been brought in. Even if they were ALL playing, which they're not, that would only mean we're fielding 9 players!! Any wonder we're getting pasted! LOL.

Seriously, he inherited a crappy group of players of which SOME were Yogi's signings, not all of them. Matters little, they were still here when CC arrived.

[Andy74]

wtf do people over react like this:confused:

Was it an over reaction when Hughes was being criticised after 4 bad months last year? In fact it started when we were 3rd and winning most weeks.

People wanted change, I wonder if they think it's achieved anything?

[Bishop Hibee]

He'll get until November, a bit longer into the season than the last clown we had as manager. If we are in relegation trouble he'll be punted and we'll be back to square 1.

What would constitute progress though? Given the magnitude of the task CC has, I'll be happy if we've a chance of top 6 at that point of the season. This wouldn't be enough for many on here though.

[blackpoolhibs]

wtf do people over react like this:confused:

Over react????????? Are we not a shambles, did he not sign 7 players? Where is the progress, even the slightest progress?:confused:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

The man needs time. I've seen enough of him to suggest he knows what he's doing.

[Andy74]

I'm getting confused Andy! People are talking rubbish if they suggest we carried luck on Yogi's good run, but you saying he was a bit unlucky at the end :confused:

I was never convinced we had good luck for seven months.

[HibsMax]

Maybe if your employer realised that thousands less people were paying to come along to watch your colleague carry out their duties their attitude would differ!

Yeah, you're probably right. :rolleyes:

I think you're missing my point which is the solution does not always have to be YOU'RE FIRED. There are other ways.

My employer has BILLIONS of dollars in revenue, I think they take this sort of thing seriously but I'll pass on your comments for their consideration.

[Westie1875]

Anyone else really tired of Hughes being brought up every time someone directs a bit of criticism at CC? We get it, you don't think he should have been mutually terminated but is it not time to get over it and stop droning on like a broken record? :grr:

We can't continue to sack managers every 5 minutes and expect anything to improve, someone needs to be given time to build a team. Hughes wasn't that person, he had lost the respect of most of his squad (not to mention the fans) and this as well as the abysmal run of results cost him the job.

I was chatting to an ex spl player (who shall remain nameless) a few weeks ago in the pub and he stated that "Hibs fans are unreasonable and impatient when it comes to giving managers and players a chance to prove themselves". I'm inclined to agree with this at times tbh.

[Andy74]

So.....

2 players are Yogi's and 7 new players have been brought in. Even if they were ALL playing, which they're not, that would only mean we're fielding 9 players!! Any wonder we're getting pasted! LOL.

Seriously, he inherited a crappy group of players of which SOME were Yogi's signings, not all of them. Matters little, they were still here when CC arrived.
He was brought in to manage them better surely?

[HibsMax]

Over react????????? Are we not a shambles, did he not sign 7 players? Where is the progress, even the slightest progress?:confused:

The slightest progress was for all to see in February. Short memory.

I don't know what the hell happened since then but we DID see progress.

Probably just luck though....

[Judas Iscariot]

wtf do people over react like this:confused:

It's not a over reaction, it's spot on!

At least under Hughes we tried to attack teams rather than playing 1 man upfront against utter dross..

That kind of football will have the fans running AWAY in droves instead of running BACK!!

[Mikeystewart]

Can we have a rule that we don't talk about manager sackings until he is at least 12 months into this job, its like removed ground hog day with the people on this board. :brickwall

[Andy74]

Anyone else really tired of Hughes being brought up every time someone directs a bit of criticism at CC? We get it, you don't think he should have been mutually terminated but is it not time to get over it and stop droning on like a broken record? :grr:

We can't continue to sack managers every 5 minutes and expect anything to improve, someone needs to be given time to build a team. Hughes wasn't that person, he had lost the respect of most of his squad (not to mention the fans) and this as well as the abysmal run of results cost him the job.

I was chatting to an ex spl player (who shall remain nameless) a few weeks ago in the pub and he stated that "Hibs fans are unreasonable and impatient when it comes to giving managers and players a chance to prove themselves". I'm inclined to agree with this at times tbh.

It's quite relevant as it's being used as CCs excuse.

[HibsMax]

He was brought in to manage them better surely?
You're comment implies that the team of players we have ARE good enough, they're just being mismanaged. Is that what you're saying?

[HibsMax]

It's not a over reaction, it's spot on!

At least under Hughes we tried to attack teams rather than playing 1 man upfront against utter dross..

That kind of football will have the fans running AWAY in droves instead of running BACK!!

If I had one question for Calderwood it would be why do we only go with one upfront? Bit of a baffler that one.

[blackpoolhibs]

It's not a over reaction, it's spot on!

At least under Hughes we tried to attack teams rather than playing 1 man upfront against utter dross..

That kind of football will have the fans running AWAY in droves instead of running BACK!!

:agree:Hughes was rightly sacked, Calderwood was brought in to improve us. Well 7 signings and 7 months later we are as bad if not worse. He's rightly being questioned.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

i posted a thread last week re CC, i wont change what i said.

Goes from disaster to disaster. Our team seem to be good at that. Thank god Accies had a bad start to the season.

Freefall, BIG TIME.

[Winston Ingram]

Over react????????? Are we not a shambles, did he not sign 7 players? Where is the progress, even the slightest progress?:confused:

He had a pile of imposters filling his squad when he took over. He signed 7 players and all of a sudden went on a great run getting rid of all relegation fears by the end of Feb and got us in contention of making the top 6. When it was confirmed that we weren't going to make the top 6 and were faced wi pointless meaningless games we've slumped. It's human nature to let your motivation drop if you have nothing to aim for.

I see no point in p!ssing my pants over us not performing in a few meaningless bottom 6 games.

[HibsMax]

Maybe we should just reread the countless other threads about Calderwood rather than wasting bandwidth spouting the same arguments over and over again? LOL.

"I'm not listening to you and you're not listening to me." (comment aimed at absolutely noone in particular)

[NYHibby]

Can we have a rule that we don't talk about manager sackings until he is at least 12 months into this job, its like removed ground hog day with the people on this board. :brickwall

I think this team has been like groundhog's day recently.

[bingo70]

I'm only saying nothing has changed. Same rate of points gained, only 2 Hughes signings playing tonight.

The criticism is valid now. He's had nearly 8 months and seven new players.

I'm not disputing that he's made mistakes, for example i think all that pissing about with goalies was a nonsense, however i think that in the bigger scheme of things if he's learning things about the squad as he goes along with next season in mind then i can deal with this season being a write off.

If there's no improvement next season then i'll be a lot more vocal in my criticism.

[Dirkster23]

I was never convinced we had good luck for seven months.

You can't have it both ways!

[Andy74]

You're comment implies that the team of players we have ARE good enough, they're just being mismanaged. Is that what you're saying?

That's why you change the manager is it not? Otherwise you get the one you have to change the players.

[loanheadhibby]

ffs, lets sack the boy for his team no performing in utterly meaningless games.

Genius:agree:

Aye let's stick with him. Defeat after defeat is the way forward for our shambles of a club.

[HibsMax]

:agree:Hughes was rightly sacked, Calderwood was brought in to improve us. Well 7 signings and 7 months later we are as bad if not worse. He's rightly being questioned.

It's not as if these 7 signings are all regulars, is it? I think you're manipulating the numbers to suit your own agenda. :wink:

[Bishop Hibee]

A ****in shambles. Calderwood is no better than what we had, 7 players signed and not one bit of progress. Why should he get anymore money to waste?

He brought in players to keep us up which they have done. Make no mistake, we were rank rotten and at least the mid-season run kept us up. There are NO gettable candidates from any Scottish team I'd take as Manager.

I'm prepared to give him the close-season and 10 games. The alternative is to play manager roulette until we stumble on a Mowbray who inherited the best crop of youngsters since the Tornadoes. A very expensive game which the board wouldn't look at. The season does feel horribly like 96/97, the season before we went down. A saving grace will probably be the weakening of our rivals.

[Winston Ingram]

It's not a over reaction, it's spot on!

At least under Hughes we tried to attack teams rather than playing 1 man upfront against utter dross..

That kind of football will have the fans running AWAY in droves instead of running BACK!!

Did we? All I remember in nearly a full calender year was a whole load of talentless twats performing like a poor pub team. We had 4 good months out of Hughes.

Saying that it wasn't exactly champagne football

[Andy74]

You can't have it both ways!

I can say we were a bit unlucky over just a handful of games. We were.

Suggesting we were lucky to go seven months in 3rd place with the best defensive record for decades and Stokes and Riordan amongst the top scorers in the SPL is perhaps pushing it.

[blackpoolhibs]

He had a pile of imposters filling his squad when he took over. He signed 7 players and all of a sudden went on a great run getting rid of all relegation fears by the end of Feb and got us in contention of making the top 6. When it was confirmed that we weren't going to make the top 6 and were faced wi pointless meaningless games we've slumped. It's human nature to let your motivation drop if you have nothing to aim for.

I see no point in p!ssing my pants over us not performing in a few meaningless bottom 6 games.

I thought we were a little lucky in those games, not so much so now?

[HibsMax]

That's why you change the manager is it not? Otherwise you get the one you have to change the players.
I sort of agree. But not totally. Replacing the manager is a two-stage process.
1. you identify that you need a new manager - either because he's pants or because he wants to go somewhere else.
2. you identify a replacement.

Obviously Hibs thought that Yogi was taking us nowhere so they identified ONE need. But a new manager is / was not the ONLY need. We can only address so many issues at once.

New Manager - check!
New Players - in progress

[Ollie Reed]

Can we have a rule that we don't talk about manager sackings until he is at least 12 months into this job, its like ground hog day with the people on this board. :brickwall

Quite true, the guy does need at least a year in the job and then see how it goes. Not convinced he's the man either, but that's irrelevant. He needs time and a chance to get things going.

[Westie1875]

It's quite relevant as it's being used as CCs excuse.

The two situations are not comparable IMO, Hughes had 3 transfer windows to build his team, CC has had only 1 under difficult circumstances - are you suggesting he should be sacked?

[Mikeystewart]

with the money in the game in Scotland at the moment or lack there of, we would need a manager of such calibre to get us to our desired position within 7 months the likes the world has never seen, and would be signing for Real Madrid in the summer if such a man existed.

I think we are just going to have to put up with the egg method of signings, if you keep throwing eggs at a wall eventually one will stick.

[new malkyhib]

I was prepared to give the guy a chance - but he sounds chillingly like a certain Alex Miller did after matches, and his team plays like Blobby's did. All in, not a good combo.

I keep looking for new managers (because we've had plenty to choose from thanks to our untouchable Board) to at least inject some FIGHT and professional pride into the team but we're still looking - still there's no winners on the field, but then there's no winners at the club at any level so why should we expect better?

We've now got some on here proclaiming they'd be happy with just making the top 6 next season while we look up to the giants of St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Motherwell?

Expectations?:confused:

[Andy74]

The two situations are not comparable IMO, Hughes had 3 transfer windows to build his team, CC has had only 1 under difficult circumstances - are you suggesting he should be sacked?

I think the people who were saying Hughes should have been sacked should be asking for it.

Hughes had one window and took the team on a seven month good run. CC had one window and had a good month.

[Judas Iscariot]

Did we? All I remember in nearly a full calender year was a whole load of talentless twats performing like a poor pub team. We had 4 good months out of Hughes.

Saying that it wasn't exactly champagne football

Ahh, a "full calender year" so the end of the season/pre season counts even though no games were played?!

I remember having a forward pairing who scored over 30 goals between them, scoring more than 2 goals a game on quite a number of occasions but I do also remember some terrible performances..

With CC though I've never witnessed a great performance, I wasn't at Ibrox when we won 3-0 but that was, now in hindsight, an utter fluke!!

All i've experienced from CC is a snore fest of a team with 1 man up front, ZERO creativity or direction and a SHED load of defeats from team we should be pumping!

Oh aye..

And no beating the might Ayr United at 2 attempts :rolleyes:

Plenty progress and scope to improve though right enough :faf:

[Sir David Gray]

Why should most of the players try? most of them are getting the boot at the end of the season hence the reason we're getting beat :rolleyes:

Out of the starting XI tonight, only 3 (possibly 4, not sure about Taggart) are out of contract this summer.

The really worrying thing is that most of the players who have played the last few weeks are actually going to form the nucleus of the squad next season and beyond.

[Westie1875]

I think the people who were saying Hughes should have been sacked should be asking for it.

Hughes had one window and took the team on a seven month good run. CC had one window and had a good month.

What about everything that happened after that? You can't ignore that, of course Hughes shouldn't have been sacked after his first 7 months, but sacking him at the time we did was the right thing to do.

Also, you're comparing a summer window and a January window - not a fair comparison IMO.

[sahib]

A ****in shambles. Calderwood is no better than what we had, 7 players signed and not one bit of progress. Why should he get anymore money to waste?

This has been the pishiest season in a good long while. Possibly the crapiest one I can remember with out relegation.

[Westie1875]

Out of the starting XI tonight, only 3 (possibly 4, not sure about Taggart) are out of contract this summer.

The really worrying thing is that most of the players who have played the last few weeks are actually going to form the nucleus of the squad next season and beyond.


I don't think so, I reckon we'll see at least 5 or 6 players coming in over the summer.

[The_Sauz]

That's why you change the manager is it not? Otherwise you get the one you have to change the players.
Is that not what he is trying to do :confused:
He has had one window to work with, and even that is a hard one to do anything in.
I can never understand Hibs fans on here! One minute they start screaming to give the young ones a try? So he (CC) makes a statement that come the finale 5 game he will be giving some of the U19's a run out and will be trying some new things to see how the players respond, yet here we are screaming for the guy's head :bitchy:

[IWasThere2016]

Hughes wasn't sacked because of the start to the season, it was because it was a continuation from last season and there was no indication it was going to get any better, we were a bit unlucky for the first couple of games but as they went on we were getting worse and something had to give.

Either way, regardless of what you thought about Hughes he left a long time ago, it's time to get over that, surely you agree changing a manager 3 days before the end of the season isn't the way to go? He's here now so we need to give him a summer and start to the season (like Hughes got BTW)

:agree: And if CC is a failure, Petrie better pack his bags as well!

[Winston Ingram]

I thought we were a little lucky in those games, not so much so now?

We may have had luck and our opposition had luck. He certainly had none prior to Jan

He did bring in 7 players when we probably could have done with 15. He had a month to do it and of the players he signed he did quite well with what he's got.

When we got them in we started performing and blew away all relegation fears.

Losing a few 'friendlies' is hardly a reason to call for a change as drastic as you are suggesting

[Dirkster23]

I can say we were a bit unlucky over just a handful of games. We were.

Suggesting we were lucky to go seven months in 3rd place with the best defensive record for decades and Stokes and Riordan amongst the top scorers in the SPL is perhaps pushing it.

Just as people can say we carried luck through that period. Nobody has ever suggested we were lucky for that entire time.

Why would RP go to the expense of paying off Yogi if there was any sign he was capable of turning things around?

[sahib]

I don't think so, I reckon we'll see at least 5 or 6 players coming in over the summer.

After such a poor season, with income down and no begger left worth selling, I suspect we are skint and that the quality of player coming in will be similar to those in January. I think this smaller squad with higher quality, just means a smaller squad come what may.

[down the slope]

:agree: And if CC is a failure, Petrie better pack his bags as well!

We should be so lucky !, he will never leave the gravy train of 80k plus car and pension.

[Liam89]

I'm sick of all these posters crawling out of their holes now that we are losing. Give CC a chance to re-build the squad and compete next season, starting almost afresh. Just write this season off and look forward to next season as there is not much we can do about the players lack of motivation in these meaningless games.

[joebakerforever]

Over recent years, our Board's performance in appointing a Manager is as good as those in charge of the Edinburgh Trams Project :******:

[HibsMax]

We've now got some on here proclaiming they'd be happy with just making the top 6 next season while we look up to the giants of St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Motherwell?

Expectations?:confused:

Top 6 next season would be an improvement over this season. Why is that so confusing?

Again we have these expectations that we can maneuver like a speed boat but really we're more like a tanker.

Personally speaking, I would rather that we improved steadily over time and built a team for the ages instead of going for too much all at once.

[The_Sauz]

I think the people who were saying Hughes should have been sacked should be asking for it.

Hughes had one window and took the team on a seven month good run. CC had one window and had a good month.
Look John...you can't include the end of a season break as being undefeated!!!

PLEASE tell me the seven months in which JH had a great run:confused:

[Kaiser1962]

I think a good point was made the other day when we were told Hibs fans, at the time, were giving Eddie Turnbull abuse as a player(little did they know then what the next 50 years would bring!) Then some twenty odd years later, as a manager and shouting for him to get out.

It seems to be rife with us I'm afraid and if its not Yogi, its CC, and if not him then then its probably Petrie, or maybe even Farmer.

What a set of whining girls blouses support this club.

[Removed]

I'm sick of all these posters crawling out of their holes now that we are losing. Give CC a chance to re-build the squad and compete next season, starting almost afresh. Just write this season off and look forward to next season as there is not much we can do about the players lack of motivation in these meaningless games.

I am dreading next season at the moment let alone looking forward too it

[The_Sauz]

I think a good point was made the other day when we were told Hibs fans, at the time, were giving Eddie Turnbull abuse as a player(little did they know then what the next 50 years would bring!) Then some twenty odd years later, as a manager and shouting for him to get out.

It seems to be rife with us I'm afraid and if its not Yogi, its CC, and if not him then then its probably Petrie, or maybe even Farmer.

What a set of whining girls blouses support this club.
:top marks

[new malkyhib]

I think a good point was made the other day when we were told Hibs fans, at the time, were giving Eddie Turnbull abuse as a player(little did they know then what the next 50 years would bring!) Then some twenty odd years later, as a manager and shouting for him to get out.

It seems to be rife with us I'm afraid and if its not Yogi, its CC, and if not him then then its probably Petrie, or maybe even Farmer.

What a set of whining girls blouses support this club.

Or subservient forelock tuggers who cannot see when a club is being mismanaged from the top down.

[Alfred E Newman]

I'm sick of all these posters crawling out of their holes now that we are losing. Give CC a chance to re-build the squad and compete next season, starting almost afresh. Just write this season off and look forward to next season as there is not much we can do about the players lack of motivation in these meaningless games.

You are right in some respects but what worries me is the fact that the rebuilding started in Jan yet there does not appear to be any nucleus of a side for next season. To suggest that a winning side will suddenly be assembled over the summer is pie in the sky.

[HibsMax]

What a set of whining girls blouses support this club.



Or subservient forelock tuggers who cannot see when a club is being mismanaged from the top down.

Only took 3 pages before we got to the name calling. What a mature bunch we are.....

[Hibstrooper]

Is anyone else fed up about folk having the same arguments about John Hughes all the time?

He got sacked, the fans wanted him gone and now a big chunk have realised we can't go changing the manager all the time so have decided the best thing to do is back Calderwood.

I wish some folk would just learn to deal with that and move on from John Hughes

[Kaiser1962]

[/B]

Or subservient forelock tuggers who cannot see when a club is being mismanaged from the top down.

Trust me I am subservient to no one. I am not clinically stupid either.

[Winston Ingram]

I think the people who were saying Hughes should have been sacked should be asking for it.

Hughes had one window and took the team on a seven month good run. CC had one window and had a good month.

7 months? August 2009 to Dec 2009 :confused:

You may need to get yer Abacus out there mate:agree:

[The_Sauz]

We should be so lucky !, he will never leave the gravy train of 80k plus car and pension.
And you know this how!!!!

[Westie1875]

Is anyone else fed up about folk having the same arguments about John Hughes all the time?

He got sacked, the fans wanted him gone and now a big chunk have realised we can't go changing the manager all the time so have decided the best thing to do is back Calderwood.

I wish some folk would just learn to deal with that and move on from John Hughes

:agree: Agree 100%

[Kaiser1962]

:agree: And if CC is a failure, Petrie better pack his bags as well!

Why would he? He's the second biggest shareholder. If people want him out then they should buy him out. Or better still if they buy Farmer out they can sack Petrie. Thats what they should do.

[new malkyhib]

Trust me I am subservient to no one. I am not clinically stupid either.

We could do with a "clinical" finisher at Easter Road though.

[Kaiser1962]

We could do with a "clinical" finisher at Easter Road though.

On that we are in agreement.

[Sammy7nil]

I think a good point was made the other day when we were told Hibs fans, at the time, were giving Eddie Turnbull abuse as a player(little did they know then what the next 50 years would bring!) Then some twenty odd years later, as a manager and shouting for him to get out.

It seems to be rife with us I'm afraid and if its not Yogi, its CC, and if not him then then its probably Petrie, or maybe even Farmer.

What a set of whining girls blouses support this club.

And so are our players

[marleyhib]

Judge him on next season, if he fails he goes and petrie should step aside.

[Kaiser1962]

And so are our players

No argument from me on that one.

[new malkyhib]

On that we are in agreement.

Do you think your mate Petrie would sanction the signing though?

[Kaiser1962]

Do you think your mate Petrie would sanction the signing though?

With money we dont have? No.

As long as its in budget I have no doubt he would.

[sleeping giant]

Judge him on next season, if he fails he goes and petrie should step aside.

Agreed.

Any confidence i had is slowly ebbing away though.

[BEEJ]

7 months? August 2009 to Dec 2009 :confused:

You may need to get yer Abacus out there mate:agree:
The run ended in February 2010 when we hit a brick wall - and we've been trying to reassemble a team ever since.

So August 2009 to February 2010 is near enough seven months. Six and a half months for the pedants among us.

[marleyhib]

Agreed.

Any confidence i had is slowly ebbing away though.

Yea mine too and a hell of a lot of other supporters

[The_Sauz]

I presume they're not wanting a job with anyone else either, then!
Players don't care how they perform when their contract is about to run out, because their agents use stats to sell their players to other clubs :agree:

I've seen many posters on here making a point about players being professionals, and that the should be trying no matter what, well they are not really pro's, more like agencies workers, and if anybody has dealt with them, will know that 80% of them don't give a ****.....at any time :wink:

[HibsMax]

Yea mine too and a hell of a lot of other supporters

I would think that EVERYONE's confidence is in tatters at this point. Lack of self belief is crippling and if we feel it then you can be sure that the players feel it too (unless you believe they really don't give a crap - might be true but I can't say for certain so will steer away from supposition).

There are many people on here saying they can't wait for the season to be over. I'm sure the players feel the same way, professionals or not. It's human nature. I'm not saying EVERYONE will feel that way but it affects us all.

[Kaiser1962]

Players don't care how they perform when their contract is about to run out, because their agents use stats to sell their players to other clubs :agree:

I've seen many posters on here making a point about players being professionals, and that the should be trying no matter what, well they are not really pro's, more like agencies workers, and if anybody has dealt with them, will know that 80% of them don't give a ****.....at any time :wink:

:agree:

And the players about to be emptied are unlikely to risk injury.

[jdships]

Judge him on next season, if he fails he goes and petrie should step aside.


At last a common sense post on this thread :top marks

[IWasThere2016]

Why would he? He's the second biggest shareholder. If people want him out then they should buy him out. Or better still if they buy Farmer out they can sack Petrie. Thats what they should do.

He's a minority shareholder - shares he did not pay for - so why should be necessarily run the business?

And what if CC is another poor appointment - just how many is RP allowed on his watch?

We're in a mess as a business - no cash, poor and deteriorating trading position, falling customer base etc - just what added value does RP bring for a part-time role that costs the club > £100k per annum?

[Kaiser1962]

He's a minority shareholder - shares he did not pay for - so why should be necessarily run the business?

And what if CC is another poor appointment - just how many is RP allowed on his watch?

We're in a mess as a business - no cash, poor and deteriorating trading position, falling customer base etc - just what added value does RP bring for a part-time role that costs the club > £100k per annum?

Farmer wants him there and he's allowed to do this until Farmer thinks otherwise, or he gets fed up. People can moan all they want but thats the reality.

Whether he paid for his shares or not is immaterial as he now owns 10% (which is the second biggest shareholding) and these were given to him by the majority (by a long long way)shareholder.

[IWasThere2016]

Farmer wants him there and he's allowed to do this until Farmer thinks otherwise, or he gets fed up. People can moan all they want but thats the reality.

Whether he paid for his shares or not is immaterial as he now owns 10% (which is the second biggest shareholding) and these were given to him by the majority (by a long long way)shareholder.

That is correct - of course it is - but 'STF wants' and Hibs need or RP merits > £100k are very different things IMHO.

[joe breezy]

I think Sir Alex Ferguson is right when he says managers need time.

In saying that in any other job there is a 3 month probation period in most other jobs, usually to fail that though an employee has to demonstrate incompetence rather than just not being great.

Hibs need a great manager more than ever because we have little money and play in a poor league.

There's quite a bit of luck in managing a successful team of Hibs standard, good young players coming through, the availability of a bargain player from overseas etc.

Sacking Calderwood now would seem a bit knee jerk and costly - some managers do great at some clubs and not do good at others.

I think it's down to a lot more than just one man, hopefully we get big improvement next season.

[Captain Trips]

I think it is fair to judge him when he has signed his own players if he had only been in charge for 4 or 5 matches, I think it is safe to judge him on what has done thus far also not to judge his future but to give you idea.

Once a manager has his own team then there is no hiding place and CC hasnt got his own team however what is important and key also in a managers ability is coming in and working with what you have and looking to improve it, IMO he has failed to motivate or really change much and it could be argued we are worse off. I cannot just dismiss most of last season because he didnt sign most of the team, fresh ideas different tactics and styles but I feel I could have been watching previous managers team.

CC might go on to be great he might go on to be shocking, but IMO based on what I have seen no matter who's players it is or was I have not seen anything thus far to suggest we will go on to better things. As I said yeah you can judge him when he has his own players but I simply cannot ignore 7 or 8 months just like that it has to be a marker in what might lie ahead.

[greenlex]

Quite true, the guy does need at least a year in the job and then see how it goes. Not convinced he's the man either, but that's irrelevant. He needs time and a chance to get things going.

Absolutely spot on Ollie. I have not seen much to make me think Calderwood will be the answer but he would be given the whole of next season unless we are rooted at the bottom of the table and struggling. Time will tell.

[IWasThere2016]

Absolutely spot on Ollie. I have not seen much to make me think Calderwood will be the answer but he would be given the whole of next season unless we are rooted at the bottom of the table and struggling. Time will tell.

:agree: Yogi got 3 windows and we were heading in the wrong direction. CC should get the same as that is enough time IMO to show progress and change a team. If there is no tangible signs of progress then it is ta-ta.

[Kaiser1962]

That is correct - of course it is - but 'STF wants' and Hibs need or RP merits > £100k are very different things IMHO.


But there is a balance to be struck between wants and needs. As in life we get what we can afford but want lots more.

You'll not be surprised that I disagree about Petrie and feel he's worth every penny. Lawell got about £900k and Bain £600k. Ogilvie at the yams got about £400k if I recall correctly. We moan when we cant match other clubs salaries for players perhaps the problem is we need to spend more on the board? :devil:

[Andy74]

Look John...you can't include the end of a season break as being undefeated!!!

PLEASE tell me the seven months in which JH had a great run:confused:

That would be from when he got the job in the summer until mid February. Forgot that?

[IWasThere2016]

But there is a balance to be struck between wants and needs. As in life we get what we can afford but want lots more.

You'll not be surprised that I disagree about Petrie and feel he's worth every penny. Lawell got about £900k and Bain £600k. Ogilvie at the yams got about £400k if I recall correctly. We moan when we cant match other clubs salaries for players perhaps the problem is we need to spend more on the board? :devil:

I'm not concerned about elsewhere - our Board remnueration:income is unnecessary IMHO.

If RP's worth every penny, I look forward to a remarkable and swift turnaround. I would recommend no one holds their breath.

[Kaiser1962]

I'm not concerned about elsewhere - our Board remnueration:income is unnecessary IMHO.

If RP's worth every penny, I look forward to a remarkable and swift turnaround. I would recommend no one holds their breath.

But when some folk are saying that our board are overpaid what are they comparing it to except what happens elsewhere.

And we all know that our board all have jobs and some others, admittedly at other clubs, have non directors in key posts. If you look at some of Farmer's business' then I think you will find similar in that key personnel are also directors.

Again if people want to change that then they know what to do.


PS Can someone tell me if the apostrophe is ok here?

[IWasThere2016]

But when some folk are saying that our board are overpaid what are they comparing it to except what happens elsewhere.
And we all know that our board all have jobs and some others, admittedly at other clubs, have non directors in key posts. If you look at some of Farmer's business' then I think you will find similar in that key personnel are also directors.

Again if people want to change that then they know what to do.

PS Can someone tell me if the apostrophe is ok here?

Been promised comparisons but they have never been forthcoming :wink: .. so I'll stick with my view that Board remuneration:income is too high as a very valid opinion.

If the apostrophe is on business' then no - I think you means businesses (eg plural)

[Kaiser1962]

Been promised comparisons but they have never been forthcoming :wink: .. so I'll stick with my view that Board remuneration:income is too high as a very valid opinion.

If the apostrophe is on business' then no - I think you means businesses (eg plural)

I am unsure what you are looking for but the overall picture of health appears to be generally accepted as the wages to turnover ratio, which in our case is creeping up but overall accepted as ok. If you want to break that down on an individual level then why not publish everyones salaries and then we can determine who is worth what. I feel we would be in for a few surprises.

As already said STF signs everything off and picks up the tab so in reality its his shout.



I do feel I should perhaps have made greater use of the apostrophe in that statement but, going back to my prvious post I thought the use of the apostrophe in the word business' was correct as I feel I am using the word as a plural noun as opposed to merely a plural. But I await, and anticipate, correction on the subject :greengrin

[NAE NOOKIE]

We cant keep sacking managers. IMO CC should get at least next season to sort out this shambles.

Having said that, since he took over there has been no sign of a change in the way the team has performed since Yogi was in charge. The lack of any creativity in midfield is depressing, no width, no pace, no urgency. At times we have come close to playing Yam type hoofball which I could live with if we were winning, but we aint.

Forget about budgets and inherited players and all that. The least I would expect from a new manager is to re invigorate the exsisting squad and to show that he has some tactical nouse.

So far the only obvious change was going to the PBS and playing like a 2nd division team in the cup at Ibrox or Parkhead. If the best he can come up with is packing the 18 yard box in the hope of getting a 0 - 0 draw ( something I never ever want to see us do in a derby ever again ) then I will do his job for half the money.

Yes he should get a fair chance ....... But FFS CC throw us a bloody bone mate.

:flag:

[Joe Baker II]

I think it is fair to judge him when he has signed his own players if he had only been in charge for 4 or 5 matches, I think it is safe to judge him on what has done thus far also not to judge his future but to give you idea.

Once a manager has his own team then there is no hiding place and CC hasnt got his own team however what is important and key also in a managers ability is coming in and working with what you have and looking to improve it, IMO he has failed to motivate or really change much and it could be argued we are worse off. I cannot just dismiss most of last season because he didnt sign most of the team, fresh ideas different tactics and styles but I feel I could have been watching previous managers team.

CC might go on to be great he might go on to be shocking, but IMO based on what I have seen no matter who's players it is or was I have not seen anything thus far to suggest we will go on to better things. As I said yeah you can judge him when he has his own players but I simply cannot ignore 7 or 8 months just like that it has to be a marker in what might lie ahead.

Totally agree and fact he has made little difference to an existing team suggests he is pretty unexceptional manager altohugh not neccesarily a dud.

Only reason I would say not change now is that I cannot identify anyone better (Strachan possibly) who would be interested - therefore only reason for a change would be to boost season ticket sales if a new appointment likely to have this effect.

[Hibs90]

I have to admit his record is terrible. We can't just keep sacking managers though as people have said. A bit of stability is what we need. CC needs time (3 years minimum IMO), money and the fans backing and he will get it right eventually. I'd be willing to suffer 3 years of ***** like this season if in the end he gets it right and we have a top 4 SPL side. Better than changing managers every year and watching them try and fail.

[IWasThere2016]

I do feel I should perhaps have made greater use of the apostrophe in that statement but, going back to my prvious post I thought the use of the apostrophe in the word business' was correct as I feel I am using the word as a plural noun as opposed to merely a plural. But I await, and anticipate, correction on the subject :greengrin

An apostrophe after an s eg s' is used to imply belonging to a noun when plural eg

students' - means belong to more than one student.

student's - means belonging to one student.

I think you use of the apostrophe is as wrong as the rest of your post :devil: :wink:

[Kaiser1962]

An apostrophe after an s eg s' is used to imply belonging to a noun when plural eg

students' - means belong to more than one student.

student's - means belonging to one student.

I think you use of the apostrophe is as wrong as the rest of your post :devil: :wink:

I really must take issue with this and refer you to this link

http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuationandmechanics/tp/GuideApostrophe.htm


Which in this case is suggesting the plural as in a business, and that they are all owned by one man where if there was more than one owner your diction may prove to be correct.
:greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

I really must take issue with this and refer you to this link

http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuationandmechanics/tp/GuideApostrophe.htm


Which in this case is suggesting the plural as in a business, and that they are all owned by one man where if there was more than one owner your diction may prove to be correct.
:greengrin

You are wrong - and I am doubting if you read your link properly and understood it :devil:

The apostrophe is required on Farmer but not business. The plural is businesses - you are presenting a plural as a possessive you do not need an apostrophe after the s in business. Trust me :wink:

[soproni1]

FFS let's give the guy a bit of time. These results are meaningless so why are we getting so up tight about them. if we can bring in a couple of quality players (to the level of Stokes and Miller at their best) then we will be a vastly improved outfit next season.

Hanlon
Booth
Palsson
Thornhill
Miller (if signed)
Sodje

Decent SPL core

Spoony
Galbraith
Stevenson
Vaz Te (if he signs)
Scott
Sproule (if he signs)

Good players who can win games on their day

Taggart
Stephens

Young Players who may make an impact

IMO if we can add some players to this then things will be looking up and the feeling of negativity around the place may disappear for a while

[basehibby]

I agree CC has to have a chance to completely rebuild the side but it does still worry me that he seems unable to motivate a Hibs team to perform against other teams who have no more to play for, in theory, than us.

:agree: The results and performances against the bottom 6 have been utterly disgraceful and a total embarassment - you've got to wonder whether any of these jokers masquerading as footballers have any professional pride at all - or are they actually trying a leg but are just a bunch of imposters who are really not fit for SPL football???
Our season may well have finished when we failed to make the top 6, but so did the seasons of Inverness and St Johnstone - both of whom have recently beaten us.
And Hamilton and St Mirren, while they may have been fighting for their SPL lives, are at the bottom of the table for a reason.
The Hibs fans that have bothered attending ER recently have paid good money and deserve to see committed performances rather than the bland capitulations that have been in evidence.
I see no point in passing judgement on CC at this stage and will watch with interest his movements in the transfer market - however, I share the concerns of the OP about recent non-performances which have shown an utter contempt rather than any pride for the jersey and haven't been helped IMO by negative formations utilised at home against opposition we should be looking to beat every time.

[3pm]

What a mess to get in.

I posted when Hughes was in charge that a half decent manager would be able to take the SAME group of players and make them more organised. Calderwood has had the luxury to sign his own players and had a reasonable time to shape them into an organised unit and show he is capable of making progress.

He's failed. I want him out.

[blackpoolhibs]

What a mess to get in.

I posted when Hughes was in charge that a half decent manager would be able to take the SAME group of players and make them more organised. Calderwood has had the luxury to sign his own players and had a reasonable time to shape them into an organised unit and show he is capable of making progress.

He's failed. I want him out.

Get yer tin hat on. :faf:

[basehibby]

I think the board need to take note of all the empty seats of late at ER. If they don't do some serious work by investing in a few quality players then I think those attendances will become the norm I'm affraid.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was young players we were giving a chance to but all I've witnessed is experienced journey men coming and going who have no feeling for the club whatsoever!

:agree: Re the bit in bold - I could not agree more.

When CC was signed as manager there was the opportunity to give the fans a real shot in the arm by signing a highly rated young manager in Steve Clark - I don't know how the sums added up but after the publicity surrounding Clark, CCs appointment was distinctly underwhelming.
I sincerely hope that history will show that the board were absolutely right in appointing CC on the basis of the qualities he demonstrated to them, but at the time my feeling was that they settled for the cheaper option.
And that for the most part has been the Hibs approach to signings for most of the last decade IMO, and the end result which we are witnessing is a mediocre team and a growing apathy in the stands borne of years of dashed hopes and disappointments.
This needs urgently to be addressed in the summer or I'm afraid we will be on the brink of a downward spiral whereby 4 figure crowds will become the norm rather than the exception at ER. I don't know what's in the pot, but it needs to be spent wisely and in a way that will give us hope for a brighter season in prospect and put bums on seats in that shiny new east stand.

[Kaiser1962]

You are wrong - and I am doubting if you read your link properly and understood it :devil:

The apostrophe is required on Farmer but not business. The plural is businesses - you are presenting a plural as a possessive you do not need an apostrophe after the s in business. Trust me :wink:

The link I posted was not the link I read as I looked at a number so I will find the one I looked at and post it. :greengrin

Its important we get the detail right. :wink:

[Craig_in_Prague]

:agree: Re the bit in bold - I could not agree more.

When CC was signed as manager there was the opportunity to give the fans a real shot in the arm by signing a highly rated young manager in Steve Clark - I don't know how the sums added up but after the publicity surrounding Clark, CCs appointment was distinctly underwhelming.
I sincerely hope that history will show that the board were absolutely right in appointing CC on the basis of the qualities he demonstrated to them, but at the time my feeling was that they settled for the cheaper option.
And that for the most part has been the Hibs approach to signings for most of the last decade IMO, and the end result which we are witnessing is a mediocre team and a growing apathy in the stands borne of years of dashed hopes and disappointments.
This needs urgently to be addressed in the summer or I'm afraid we will be on the brink of a downward spiral whereby 4 figure crowds will become the norm rather than the exception at ER. I don't know what's in the pot, but it needs to be spent wisely and in a way that will give us hope for a brighter season in prospect and put bums on seats in that shiny new east stand.

agree with your post 100%.

However re bit in bold, we have been for more than 3 years already.

[IWasThere2016]

The link I posted was not the link I read as I looked at a number so I will find the one I looked at and post it. :greengrin

Its important we get the detail right. :wink:

Yer still wrang :wink:

[HibsMax]

What a mess to get in.

I posted when Hughes was in charge that a half decent manager would be able to take the SAME group of players and make them more organised. Calderwood has had the luxury to sign his own players and had a reasonable time to shape them into an organised unit and show he is capable of making progress.

He's failed. I want him out.
The "luxury" of a single winter transfer window. Yeah, he's been blessed with an embarrassment of riches right enough.

Less than one season is long enough? How long should a capable manager be given to rebuild a team, in your opinion?

He DID show us some progress, in February, but people seem to attribute that to luck for some reason....or discount it for some other reason. :confused: Yes, it would have been amazing to continue that form until the end of the season but we didn't. It's a little too convenient, IMO, to ignore a whole month and an unbeaten run just so you can say we've made no progress. I think a more accurate assessment would be that we DID make progress but then subsequently regressed.

The current Hibs team have ended this season with a whimper, of that there can be NO doubt and I doubt you will have anyone arguing with you over that. But there were signs of hope and I personally believe you are being biased if you choose to ignore them.

[HibsMax]

When CC was signed as manager there was the opportunity to give the fans a real shot in the arm by signing a highly rated young manager in Steve Clark - I don't know how the sums added up but after the publicity surrounding Clark, CCs appointment was distinctly underwhelming.
We have no idea how successful or unsuccessful Clark would have been if he was appointed. We can speculate but at the end of the day, that's all it is - speculation. You might hear things like, "He couldn't have been any worse!", but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know. Hell, if Yogi stayed on maybe he WOULD have turned things around. But we don't know. Comparing a known with an unknown (unknown in terms of ability to manage Hibs) is not a solid base for any argument.

[Captain Trips]

I have to admit his record is terrible. We can't just keep sacking managers though as people have said. A bit of stability is what we need. CC needs time (3 years minimum IMO), money and the fans backing and he will get it right eventually. I'd be willing to suffer 3 years of ***** like this season if in the end he gets it right and we have a top 4 SPL side. Better than changing managers every year and watching them try and fail.

The problem is Meeko we were saying we will get it right in 3 or 4 years roughly 3 or 4 years ago and same before and before that. The ship has sailed on this for me, Hibs with all the infrastucture that has been in place for a few years which IMO is far superior to 8 or 9 other SPL clubs should have already been consistantly being 4th/3rd, this goes above CC now.

If Hibs are not 4th/3rd next season then I think it is time for board members to step aside as this IMO is a failing on the football running of club.

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=basehibby;2800298]
When CC was signed as manager there was the opportunity to give the fans a real shot in the arm by signing a highly rated young manager in Steve Clark - I don't know how the sums added up but after the publicity surrounding Clark, CCs appointment was distinctly underwhelming.
I sincerely hope that history will show that the board were absolutely right in appointing CC on the basis of the qualities he demonstrated to them, but at the time my feeling was that they settled for the cheaper option.QUOTE]

Highly rated by who? He's never managed anybody in his puff, still hasnt, so how do we know that?


I thought the general consensus was that we should have another rookie :confused:

So now we should emply a rookie?

[Broken Gnome]

:agree: Re the bit in bold - I could not agree more.

When CC was signed as manager there was the opportunity to give the fans a real shot in the arm by signing a highly rated young manager in Steve Clark - I don't know how the sums added up but after the publicity surrounding Clark, CCs appointment was distinctly underwhelming.
I sincerely hope that history will show that the board were absolutely right in appointing CC on the basis of the qualities he demonstrated to them, but at the time my feeling was that they settled for the cheaper option.
And that for the most part has been the Hibs approach to signings for most of the last decade IMO, and the end result which we are witnessing is a mediocre team and a growing apathy in the stands borne of years of dashed hopes and disappointments.
This needs urgently to be addressed in the summer or I'm afraid we will be on the brink of a downward spiral whereby 4 figure crowds will become the norm rather than the exception at ER. I don't know what's in the pot, but it needs to be spent wisely and in a way that will give us hope for a brighter season in prospect and put bums on seats in that shiny new east stand.

The board do realise that though. Even if they don't know football, which is a constant criticism, they'll be worried that their main form of income is disappearing rapidly if next season starts badly.

Mixu created apathy, so did Yogi. Both were turning away supporters, and the board acted. Calderwood's blessed by the fact he's automatically got a chance to put this right, but if there's zero sign of progress or hope and four figure crowds dropping ever further by September or October, he's gone. Certainly not before then.

[down the slope]

The problem is Meeko we were saying we will get it right in 3 or 4 years roughly 3 or 4 years ago and same before and before that. The ship has sailed on this for me, Hibs with all the infrastucture that has been in place for a few years which IMO is far superior to 8 or 9 other SPL clubs should have already been consistantly being 4th/3rd, this goes above CC now.

If Hibs are not 4th/3rd next season then I think it is time for board members to step aside as this IMO is a failing on the football running of club.

Spot on , i wonder if Petrie and the rest were ever at a football game in their lives before they arrived at E R. If they were running anything but a football club they would have been given their jotters long ago.

[Kaiser1962]

Been promised comparisons but they have never been forthcoming :wink: .. so I'll stick with my view that Board remuneration:income is too high as a very valid opinion.

If the apostrophe is on business' then no - I think you means businesses (eg plural)

Is there not an apostrophe there? Or perhaps not an 's'?

[IWasThere2016]

Is there not an apostrophe there? Or perhaps not an 's'?

No - never in the sense you meant. You should give up :wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Spot on , i wonder if Petrie and the rest were ever at a football game in their lives before they arrived at E R. If they were running anything but a football club they would have been given their jotters long ago.

:agree: 3 ac*****ants on a board/senior management team - what a nonsense.

[Dr Jimmy]

Spot on , i wonder if Petrie and the rest were ever at a football game in their lives before they arrived at E R. If they were running anything but a football club they would have been given their jotters long ago.

I am far from a fan of the board, but Gary O'hagan is a Hibby born and bread, who went to Hibs games home and away.
Just thot folks might like to know that :-)

[sesoim]

Why should most of the players try? most of them are getting the boot at the end of the season hence the reason we're getting beat :rolleyes:


Imagine if everybody took that attitude in life? I hope my lifesaving heart surgeon isn't coming to the end of his contract!

Only kidding - but you get my point - there is no excuse for them to be lazy, especially when they are doing such a relatively easy and enjoyable job. If that is their attitude, I hope they all end up on the dole.

[sesoim]

aye lets sack another manager and start over again because that policy has been working a treat the last few years , how about we get some settled management at the club?


It's not the sacking that hasn't worked - it's the poor appointments.

[sesoim]

ffs, lets sack the boy for his team no performing in utterly meaningless games.

Genius:agree:


Yes, true genius. By the way, have you ever wondered why Hibs always lose even though the game is meaningless for the other team as well? Doesn't that make you think?

Thank f*** those games against Ayr were so meaningless btw, I can't wait to see us when we have an important game under CC.

[sesoim]

Was it an over reaction when Hughes was being criticised after 4 bad months last year? In fact it started when we were 3rd and winning most weeks.

People wanted change, I wonder if they think it's achieved anything?


I wanted change, but I didn't want (Colin) Calderwood. I have lost any faith in Petrie's judgement.

[Wellbankhibby]

I see very little or no improvement in the team. I am not one for calling for the managers head and I never have been but the team is a disgrace just now. In all my years supporting Hibs I have always tried to remain optimistic and felt that on our day we could beat any team in the SPL. Im being realistic now and im expecting us to lose matches. I dont think CC is the man for the job but Im prepared to wait and see what signings come into ER and what connections CC has down south. I was sorry to see Yogi go he said the team required major surgery and rebuilding and it would take until the Summer, whatever you think of him he was right on the button.
There is no hiding for us just now we are useless and a laughing stock. Some of you state that the last few games are meaningless this is absolute rubbish when these players pull on the Green jersey they should be bursting with pride for themselves the fans and for the honour of Playing for The Best Club in the Land.:flag:

[IWasThere2016]

I see very little or no improvement in the team. I am not one for calling for the managers head and I never have been but the team is a disgrace just now. In all my years supporting Hibs I have always tried to remain optimistic and felt that on our day we could beat any team in the SPL. Im being realistic now and im expecting us to lose matches. I dont think CC is the man for the job but Im prepared to wait and see what signings come into ER and what connections CC has down south. I was sorry to see Yogi go he said the team required major surgery and rebuilding and it would take until the Summer, whatever you think of him he was right on the button.
There is no hiding for us just now we are useless and a laughing stock. Some of you state that the last few games are meaningless this is absolute rubbish when these players pull on the Green jersey they should be bursting with pride for themselves the fans and for the honour of Playing for The Best Club in the Land.:flag:

Don't agree with all of that but good sign off 'neighbour' :thumbsup:

[PaulSmith]

I see very little or no improvement in the team. I am not one for calling for the managers head and I never have been but the team is a disgrace just now. In all my years supporting Hibs I have always tried to remain optimistic and felt that on our day we could beat any team in the SPL. Im being realistic now and im expecting us to lose matches. I dont think CC is the man for the job but Im prepared to wait and see what signings come into ER and what connections CC has down south. I was sorry to see Yogi go he said the team required major surgery and rebuilding and it would take until the Summer, whatever you think of him he was right on the button.
There is no hiding for us just now we are useless and a laughing stock. Some of you state that the last few games are meaningless this is absolute rubbish when these players pull on the Green jersey they should be bursting with pride for themselves the fans and for the honour of Playing for The Best Club in the Land.:flag:

You've put into words better than I could've done but spot on.

[Criswell]

Calderwood may or may not get the sack in the foreseeable future, however, there is another alternative possibility: he may walk! I, for one am not wholly convinced he is here for the long run. He just does not strike me as having the necessary drive and passion needed to turn this current shambles around.

I may be wrong of course, just hae ma doots!

[HFC 0-7]

He had a pile of imposters filling his squad when he took over. He signed 7 players and all of a sudden went on a great run getting rid of all relegation fears by the end of Feb and got us in contention of making the top 6. When it was confirmed that we weren't going to make the top 6 and were faced wi pointless meaningless games we've slumped. It's human nature to let your motivation drop if you have nothing to aim for.

I see no point in p!ssing my pants over us not performing in a few meaningless bottom 6 games.

I dont for one minute think that CC should be sacked, however, saying that because we never made the top 6 and thus making all the games meaningless, getting beat and not performing should be expected, afterall St Johnstone and ICT are in the same boat as us. CC should be drawing criticism IMO, we shouldnt be calling for his head though. performances have been well below par and he is the man in charge. He doesnt make things easier for himself when he praises his team in the wake of defeats, Hibs fans have had enough of that with past managers.

I do however see why people are calling for his head, Hibs run the whole thing as a business. If the business is underperforming whoever is in charge makes changes in an attempt to improve. Targets will be set, in this instance avoid relegation would have been number 1, however no business should allow its progress to stop and then fall backwards again once its achieved. Many fans, who have been pumping money into hibs for the last few seasons will view this as a bad return for their money and will probably not be prepared to accept dross for many months with no guarantee of improvement in the end.

Many Fans will expect to see, and rightly so, progress to be made on the pitch in the form of results no matter how small. What they dont expect to see, and many wont tolerate is backwards progress in terms of results.

[Andy74]

Why do we keep saying CCs brief was to avoid relegation? We had played around 8 games and I am fairly sure he was brought here to regain touch at the top end.

[Captain Trips]

Why do we keep saying CCs brief was to avoid relegation? We had played around 8 games and I am fairly sure he was brought here to regain touch at the top end.

Indeed I would have thought target discussions would have involved the top ends of league rather than the bottom.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why do we keep saying CCs brief was to avoid relegation? We had played around 8 games and I am fairly sure he was brought here to regain touch at the top end.


Indeed I would have thought target discussions would have involved the top ends of league rather than the bottom.

When Yogi was sacked, everyone to a man said all we needed was a manager who could manage properly, we had the players it was the manager that was picking the wrong ones, or playing them in the wrong positions and he had no plan B. He also spoke funny and was either too pally with the players or bullying them.

Thank god we managed to get rid of him, and brought in someone who's made the changes the fans wanted. :faf:

[Craig_in_Prague]

When Yogi was sacked, everyone to a man said all we needed was a manager who could manage properly, we had the players it was the manager that was picking the wrong ones, or playing them in the wrong positions and he had no plan B. He also spoke funny and was either too pally with the players or bullying them.

Thank god we managed to get rid of him, and brought in someone who's made the changes the fans wanted. :faf:

CC is doing a cracking job on this downward spiral.

[Captain Trips]

When Yogi was sacked, everyone to a man said all we needed was a manager who could manage properly, we had the players it was the manager that was picking the wrong ones, or playing them in the wrong positions and he had no plan B. He also spoke funny and was either too pally with the players or bullying them.

Thank god we managed to get rid of him, and brought in someone who's made the changes the fans wanted. :faf:

I never really thought we had the players but I nver really thought and still think that CC was the right way to go, I couldnt see what he offered that Hughes didnt, it is guesswork but I dont think we would be doing better or worse if Hughes stayed. A major change was needed it was time for Hibs to go out and get a manager whom had experience of clearing out teams and had some elements of success on CV and if that cost a lot of money then so be it.

[TornadoHibby]

One of the biggest problems here is that the paying customers of Hibs (the fans) like in any business must be retained year on year as the cost of bringing in new customers in terms of marketing costs alone is considerably more that the retention of an existing one! To do that the customer has to be "brought into" a feeling of being part of the product being sold and not only to enjoy it regularly but, if possible, to become part of it thereby making the giving of regular support to the product very easy for the customer.

Now at Hibs, our saleable product is the team and the manner in which it plays week on week and if it is not entertaining the fans and winning regularly, customers will begin to get unhappy and will gradually disassociate themselves from supporting the team and/or attending matches and become negative rather than positive about it generating a ripple effect amongst others whom they speak to about it!

With a MB like this as well as similar others, it doesn't take long before we have a situation such as we have now at Hibs with continuing reluctance of many to invest in ST for next season and continual calling for CC to be replaced by a person presently unknown! With ST income down probably down again on last season and an apparent reluctance (of the Board) to rely upon debt for the necessary investment in new players NOW to improve the quality and prospects of and for the team going forward, we definately have a recipe for another poor season coming up and if that trend is not reversed quickly, the Club could possibly go into decline relatively easily despite the excellent financial management over the past few years!

Something needs to be done and very soon to prevent this from happening IMO but whether this involves CC or not will depend upon how well he does in getting decent quality players on board for the start of next season and how well he can get them to gel quickly as a team!

I believe that the Board really does need to get behind their manager solidly over the next few months and give him the opportunity to get such players into the club and to build that good winning team that we all want at Hibs.

Only time will tell if that will happen at this stage I fear!

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

One of the biggest problems here is that the paying customers of Hibs (the fans) like in any business must be retained year on year as the cost of bringing in new customers in terms of marketing costs alone is considerably more that the retention of an existing one! To do that the customer has to be "brought into" a feeling of being part of the product being sold and not only to enjoy it regularly but, if possible, to become part of it thereby making the giving of regular support to the product very easy for the customer.

Now at Hibs, our saleable product is the team and the manner in which it plays week on week and if it is not entertaining the fans and winning regularly, customers will begin to get unhappy and will gradually disassociate themselves from supporting the team and/or attending matches and become negative rather than positive about it generating a ripple effect amongst others whom they speak to about it!

With a MB like this as well as similar others, it doesn't take long before we have a situation such as we have now at Hibs with continuing reluctance of many to invest in ST for next season and continual calling for CC to be replaced by a person presently unknown! With ST income down probably down again on last season and an apparent reluctance (of the Board) to rely upon debt for the necessary investment in new players NOW to improve the quality and prospects of and for the team going forward, we definately have a recipe for another poor season coming up and if that trend is not reversed quickly, the Club could possibly go into decline relatively easily despite the excellent financial management over the past few years!

Something needs to be done and very soon to prevent this from happening IMO but whether this involves CC or not will depend upon how well he does in getting decent quality players on board for the start of next season and how well he can get them to gel quickly as a team!

I believe that the Board really does need to get behind their manager solidly over the next few months and give him the opportunity to get such players into the club and to build that good winning team that we all want at Hibs.Only time will tell if that will happen at this stage I fear!

I agree although the only problem with that is the supporters need to invest in order for the board to support the manager. Catch 22 eh!

For what it's worth I believe that CC is a good manager and he will improve the squad over the summer. I read things like meaningless games, try the youth, experiment with the team... This is what CC has been doing and yet he gets pelters for it. Hibs are not like the other teams in the bottom six as we have a whole raft of players coming to the end of their contracts, players already told they can leave, some in contract limbo and youngsters trying to overly impress to stake a claim in an unsettled team.

For these reasons we see a dip in form, performance and understandably a reaction from fans. Everyone is entitled to their opinions so all I'm saying is, IMO, I believe that we will be stronger next season, under a manager who will have shaped his own team, utilising the top youth within the club, getting a better culture within the players and hopefully this thread will be dragged back up after the first quarter of next season to measure just how different (if any) we are as a club.

[Captain Trips]

I agree although the only problem with that is the supporters need to invest in order for the board to support the manager. Catch 22 eh!

For what it's worth I believe that CC is a good manager and he will improve the squad over the summer. I read things like meaningless games, try the youth, experiment with the team... This is what CC has been doing and yet he gets pelters for it. Hibs are not like the other teams in the bottom six as we have a whole raft of players coming to the end of their contracts, players already told they can leave, some in contract limbo and youngsters trying to overly impress to stake a claim in an unsettled team.

For these reasons we see a dip in form, performance and understandably a reaction from fans. Everyone is entitled to their opinions so all I'm saying is, IMO, I believe that we will be stronger next season, under a manager who will have shaped his own team, utilising the top youth within the club, getting a better culture within the players and hopefully this thread will be dragged back up after the first quarter of next season to measure just how different (if any) we are as a club.

I would say without needing to drag up anything 8 months on from the start of his tenure we are really in a poor position, he has had months to get better cultures, bring in youth and change the way we play and I find it alarming the lack of anything positive after that time.

Absolutley the key thing is transfers and him having his own players for that to have effect he needs at least 6 new players and I am not keen on next season with 6,7 or 8 of this lot starting. I think he had a poor team to work with but watch a Mixu match a Hughes match and a CC match and you will struggle to know who is in charge and that is what worries me and I cannot ignore 8months of basically by and large very poor fair. If Hibs are taking any games as meaningless then he isnt doing job correctly.

[ahibby]

Over react????????? Are we not a shambles, did he not sign 7 players? Where is the progress, even the slightest progress?:confused:

I think the progress has been securing SPL status with several matches remaining in which he can try things and young players out. A luxury which might not have been afforded under Yogi who lost at home to Hamilton when relegation was still a possibility compared to CC who lost when a place in the SPL was secured.

[Stevie Reid]

I think the progress has been securing SPL status with several matches remaining in which he can try things and young players out. A luxury which might not have been afforded under Yogi who lost at home to Hamilton when relegation was still a possibility compared to CC who lost when a place in the SPL was secured.

We didn't lose at home to Hamilton under Hughes, we beat them 5-1 last season and this season we drew 1-1 - which, if you're playing your game, is a better result than CC. But when were we under threat of relegation under Yogi anyway?

Also, progress has been securing our SPL status when last season we finished 4th? Right then. This season, with one game remaining, we are 17 points worse off, have scored 20 less goals and conceded 13 more - we have also lost only one game less than the team that has been relegated. The fact that we remain in the SPL is not progress in any way, shape or form, and simply staying in the league was NEVER Calderwood's remit.

But, since you insist that we have made progress, can you tell me what areas we are now stronger in under CC?

[Captain Trips]

If the board are handing our remits to avoid relegation with some of the other clubs in this league then it's time to step aside.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the progress has been securing SPL status with several matches remaining in which he can try things and young players out. A luxury which might not have been afforded under Yogi who lost at home to Hamilton when relegation was still a possibility compared to CC who lost when a place in the SPL was secured.

Aye because securing our SPL status was his job when he was appointed?????????????:confused:

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Aye because securing our SPL status was his job when he was appointed?????????????:confused:

Well I'm sure it was one part of it, not the only thing

[blackpoolhibs]

Well I'm sure it was one part of it, not the only thing


There's a lot of rewriting history going on here? When the last manager was sacked to a man this board said we had the players. The reason he was sacked was because he couldnt motivate them, he couldnt pick players in the right position, was playing a system they did not think was possible with the players we had. And he was to pally or bullying. He spoke silly too.

Nobody thought we'd go down with a new manager, in fact all the new man had to do was get the basics right, and we'd climb the table.

Well what happened?:confused:

[Captain Trips]

There's a lot of rewriting history going on here? When the last manager was sacked to a man this board said we had the players. The reason he was sacked was because he couldnt motivate them, he couldnt pick players in the right position, was playing a system they did not think was possible with the players we had. And he was to pally or bullying. He spoke silly too.

Nobody thought we'd go down with a new manager, in fact all the new man had to do was get the basics right, and we'd climb the table.

Well what happened?:confused:


Indeed, there was no shot in the arm you get with a new manager but sure you dont always get that, there was no real gameplay change, there was and still is no real result change or attitude change that I can see.

I never expected to see trees getting pulled up but I thought in changing the manager there might be something and now we are all in the hope he can sign decent players and play a good system, and it remains hope only as CC has showen nothing to suggest we can do much better. An odd good performance is the exception over last 8 months and that has not got me interested in what the next 12 will bring.

[3pm]

Get yer tin hat on. :faf:

Not quite as controversial as you thought! :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Not quite as controversial as you thought! :greengrin

:agree: and that suprised me. Maybe you are not in the minority? :wink:

[3pm]

:agree: and that suprised me. Maybe you are not in the minority? :wink:

No point messing around!! :greengrin

If he does stay, he has put himself under real pressure for the beginning of the new season. He better hope the fixture list is favourable!

[Cabbage1875]

blackpoolhibs and Andy74. I wonder if you'll ever let Yogi go.

The right decision at the time was to get rid of him, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Everyone could see the direction we were headed with him in charge (after the initial superb run we went on - I will not begrudge the man that before you say :wink:)

The main thing that had to happen was that the board has to get the right man in. I am far from convinced that Calderwood is that man - the proof is in the second half of the season pudding. One month does not a good manager make.

I am very interested to see how we buy in the summer as in my eyes it is probably one of the most important pre seasons in my lifetime as a Hibee. I really feel that with the current malaise and acceptance (even EXPECTANCE) of defeat we are in very real danger of spending another season in the depths of this league, and there might not be a Hamilton to detach itself next season to guarantee us safety.

A good start for CC is absolutely imperative next season or we could be looking at another managerial change - which would surely leave the board in a rather precarious position with us, the lifeblood of the club.

[joe breezy]

I read that not taking Derek Riordan was an 'experiment' by Calderwood.

i think that it's a disgrace for someone to not take every game seriously.

The place for experiments is the training ground, not where some Hibs fans have spent a lot of time and money to get to.

[RickyS]

I read that not taking Derek Riordan was an 'experiment' by Calderwood.

i think that it's a disgrace for someone to not take every game seriously.

The place for experiments is the training ground, not where some Hibs fans have spent a lot of time and money to get to.

spot on! friendlies is fine but league games you have to take seriously and try to win. he was aware of the monkey on our back that is Caley away and to treat it as a "who cares" game and its alright cos a few teenagers got a game is not acceptable. these games are opportunities to sell season tickets!

[blackpoolhibs]

blackpoolhibs and Andy74. I wonder if you'll ever let Yogi go.

The right decision at the time was to get rid of him, there is absolutely no doubt about that. Everyone could see the direction we were headed with him in charge (after the initial superb run we went on - I will not begrudge the man that before you say :wink:)

The main thing that had to happen was that the board has to get the right man in. I am far from convinced that Calderwood is that man - the proof is in the second half of the season pudding. One month does not a good manager make.

I am very interested to see how we buy in the summer as in my eyes it is probably one of the most important pre seasons in my lifetime as a Hibee. I really feel that with the current malaise and acceptance (even EXPECTANCE) of defeat we are in very real danger of spending another season in the depths of this league, and there might not be a Hamilton to detach itself next season to guarantee us safety.

A good start for CC is absolutely imperative next season or we could be looking at another managerial change - which would surely leave the board in a rather precarious position with us, the lifeblood of the club.

I'm happy Hughes has gone, i said he needed to be given a chance to rectify what was wrong. Given what he did achieve in his first season, i felt that was only fair.

Now Calderwood was employed to rectify Yogi's faults, as we all read on here it was all down to him we were struggling.

Remember the reasons, no plan B, no idea how to set a team up, formations were stupid, no width no idea, bullying too friendly, the players hated him, they loved him. At no time was there mention of the players were crap, we had a team full of crap, no it was Yogi's fault 100%.

And all that was needed was a new manager, hell some thought they could do better.

Now we have this new man, results are no better, we are losing to the 1 team thats relegated home and away, and the players dont seem to be trying a leg. What was calderwoods job description when he arrived, as i cant see what he brings to the table, its pretty much the exact same as before?

If the last man can get questioned for players lack of commitment, no plan B and shocking results, then this one certainly can too.

[matty_f]

There's a lot of rewriting history going on here? When the last manager was sacked to a man this board said we had the players. The reason he was sacked was because he couldnt motivate them, he couldnt pick players in the right position, was playing a system they did not think was possible with the players we had. And he was to pally or bullying. He spoke silly too.

Nobody thought we'd go down with a new manager, in fact all the new man had to do was get the basics right, and we'd climb the table.

Well what happened?:confused:

I'll argue the point about the players, I said for a long, long time that they were not good enough.

[Jim44]

I read that not taking Derek Riordan was an 'experiment' by Calderwood.
i think that it's a disgrace for someone to not take every game seriously.

The place for experiments is the training ground, not where some Hibs fans have spent a lot of time and money to get to.

Is that 'manager' talk for there's a problem with Riordan and Hibs/Calderwood. There's definitely something going on or not going on with Riordan. All will have to be revealed soon.

[matty_f]

Is that 'manager' talk for there's a problem with Riordan and Hibs/Calderwood. There's definitely something going on or not going on with Riordan. All will have to be revealed soon.

Riordan's going to start tomorrow. CC didn't see the point in taking him all that way for a seat on the bench.

[J-C]

Unfortunately I don't think we all expected so many of the squad left by Yogi to turn into the biggst bunch of wage thieves ever to be assembled by Hibs. When you have a bunch of players rotten to the core and without a care in the world, no manager would've got the results needed. CC realised this quickly and the cull began, getting rid of imposters, troublemakers etc was his first duty, then having the Jan window to get in some players capable of getting out of the mire.

Now we all know the Jan window is crap for getting decent players, unless you have a few bob to spend, so our options were limited, lets hope the summer is a better time for CC to use any contacts he's made and bring in the quality required for the start of the season.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'll argue the point about the players, I said for a long, long time that they were not good enough.

Matty you know as well as i do, that he did a fantastic job getting those players into a 4th place finish. Where he went wrong was not bringing in better quality last summer, and selling our best goalscorer.

There were a few you and me included who said many times our players are not that good, but had done very well achieving what they did. Yogi failed in the summer with his signings, was given the chance to rectify what was wrong, didnt and was sacked.

That does not get away from the vast majority of this board and they know who they are, wanting a new manager, as Hughes was the devil, no plan B blah blah blah.

Their argument has now changed to the players are crap, funny that eh?

Well the new guy has had 7 new signings, and have lost twice to the team thats just been relegated. And we now have a team with the least amount of fight and passion seen at easter road for a long long time. It was great we had a fantastic February, we have not seen one of them in a while, but progress, even slight progress? Not in my opinion.

[matty_f]

Matty you know as well as i do, that he did a fantastic job getting those players into a 4th place finish. Where he went wrong was not bringing in better quality last summer, and selling our best goalscorer.

There were a few you and me included who said many times our players are not that good, but had done very well achieving what they did. Yogi failed in the summer with his signings, was given the chance to rectify what was wrong, didnt and was sacked.

That does not get away from the vast majority of this board and they know who they are, wanting a new manager, as Hughes was the devil, no plan B blah blah blah.

Their argument has now changed to the players are crap, funny that eh?

Well the new guy has had 7 new signings, and have lost twice to the team thats just been relegated. And we now have a team with the least amount of fight and passion seen at easter road for a long long time. It was great we had a fantastic February, we have not seen one of them in a while, but progress, even slight progress? Not in my opinion.

Don't argue with much there, BH. I've posted on another thread about Yogi's signings being the turning point for me as well.

[J-C]

Is that 'manager' talk for there's a problem with Riordan and Hibs/Calderwood. There's definitely something going on or not going on with Riordan. All will have to be revealed soon.



Probably the fact that he knows exactly what Riordan can do, so lets give the other guys a chance to show what they can bring to the table, re Vaz Te etc.