Vanity Project Back On. (Tram Content)

[Greentinted]

Disgrace. (http://news.stv.tv/scotland/east-central/248712-controversial-545m-edinburgh-tram-project-is-back-on-track/)

[steakbake]

What an outrage and waste of money.

[Jones28]

Will it get any more embarrassing? Seriously, it wont even go to Princes Street, the roads around the tracks are cracking, disputes with the Contractors. :blah:

[Removed]

What a total shambles.

[bighairyfaeleith]

So before the trams have even started we have to close a road for months to repair the road. Apparently the damage has been caused by buses driving over the tracks.

It surely doesn't take a genius to work out the flaws in this whole system does it??

Scrap the whole project now before we waste anymore money

[Removed]

So before the trams have even started we have to close a road for months to repair the road. Apparently the damage has been caused by buses driving over the tracks.

It surely doesn't take a genius to work out the flaws in this whole system does it??

Scrap the whole project now before we waste anymore money

:agree:

[The_Exile]

Read something recently about the city and tramworks etc, think it was a guy going on about how Edinburgh was changing and growing, being recognised as an urban force in europe or something, never read so much bollox in my entire life. Mentioned something along the lines of "Edinburgh has trams and the waterfront, big changes to modernise"..........No, we don't have the trams, we have big ****ing holes in the road and listed buildings being demolished, ambulances delayed at junctions because of rank traffic management, businesses crippled and shutting up shop, and if you like the waterfront so much, then go bloody live there yourself, there's an adequate bus service, you'll never wait more than 5 minutes for a 22.

Don't get me started on the Scottish Parliament, how much money have we wasted in this country on utter rubbish in the past few years? how many millions? billions? and for example....we're sitting with tens of thousands of families on council house waiting lists living on bread and water working in jobs that are paying less and less as the pay increases are frozen and the inflation is rising, for all that money we've wasted we could have built a couple of hundred thousand council houses, bang, one of this countrys biggest problems gone, and that's just one situation we could have sorted amongst many more........

Scottish Parliament £414.4 million
Trams £440 million spent to date, £545 million entire budget (that number WILL increase MASSIVELY)

There's almost a billion quid spent on 2 things we didn't need (Am I correct in saying we could have used the old Royal High School for the Parliament? Sure the Holyrood Inquiry will be available online to read but can't be ersed.)

[Phil D. Rolls]

What a total shambles.

I hope the people responsible for drawing up the brief and awarding the contract are taken to task. The last thing we need is a repeat of the parliament fiasco where no-one was to blame.

Was Donald Anderson not head of the council at the time?

[One Day Soon]

I hope the people responsible for drawing up the brief and awarding the contract are taken to task. The last thing we need is a repeat of the parliament fiasco where no-one was to blame.

Was Donald Anderson not head of the council at the time?

I too hope they are taken to task.

[hibsbollah]

I think im the only person in Edinburgh who thinks its a good thing that the trams are actually going to get finished now so much money has been sunk into them?:tin hat:

[The_Todd]

There should be a city referendum to decide the future of this project. That's twice now that the work on Princes St has needed remedial work and a single tram hasn't run down there yet.I dread to think what state it will get into when the lines actually get used.

[Bishop Hibee]

I think im the only person in Edinburgh who thinks its a good thing that the trams are actually going to get finished now so much money has been sunk into them?:tin hat:

Problem is it looks like the furthest the trams will get from the airport is St Andrew Square so they won't be "finished". Tax payers and businesses of Leith shafted :grr:

Tin hat on but I think the project needs to be completed in its entirety with financial input from the new SNP administration and new management of the project by proper professionals, not just seconded council workers.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think im the only person in Edinburgh who thinks its a good thing that the trams are actually going to get finished now so much money has been sunk into them?:tin hat:

No you're not. I was one of the few who actually thought the original plans didn't go far enough.

It's been a monumental cock-up, yes, but IMO the logic was always sound. The network will grow over the next generation, and in time we will wonder why there was so much resistance.

[Jack]

No you're not. I was one of the few who actually thought the original plans didn't go far enough.

It's been a monumental cock-up, yes, but IMO the logic was always sound. The network will grow over the next generation, and in time we will wonder why there was so much resistance.

The current situation is why there was so much resistance. Everyone but the folk that were spending OUR cash saw it for what it was always going to be - Edinburgh's 21st century disgrace. At least folk didn't loose their livelihoods with the last one.

[steakbake]

When will we know? Its such a daft wee antiquated idea. I don't care how much has been spent. It's falling apart already. It will cost a fortune over the years. Once it's scrapped, there must be a full inquiry.

[col02]

No you're not. I was one of the few who actually thought the original plans didn't go far enough.

It's been a monumental cock-up, yes, but IMO the logic was always sound. The network will grow over the next generation, and in time we will wonder why there was so much resistance.

Is this the next generation who will have seen some nurseries and schools closed due to a lack of funding from the council who try cover up how much money they wasted on this project?

Whatever money is left in the pot should be spent on hybrid buses that will bring emissions down by about 30% which is a decent enough start to tackling pollution in the city. I still believe that congestion charging should have gone ahead too as people who live in nicer houses for less money in the outlying regions should be forced to pay for the deterioration they contribute to our crumbling road network.

[One Day Soon]

I hope the people responsible for drawing up the brief and awarding the contract are taken to task. The last thing we need is a repeat of the parliament fiasco where no-one was to blame.

Was Donald Anderson not head of the council at the time?

Actually it was Jenny Dawe who was head of the council at the time.

[Dashing Bob S]

No you're not. I was one of the few who actually thought the original plans didn't go far enough.

It's been a monumental cock-up, yes, but IMO the logic was always sound. The network will grow over the next generation, and in time we will wonder why there was so much resistance.

Agree totally. No time for the shivering band of jakey's who want to shuffle onto to one of those, slow, twisting, smelly, bumpy second rate buses. It's obscene that a city which calls itself a capital has no modern rapid transit system when rat-traps like...well, I won't name the towns because I'm a gentlemen and I'm sure they mean a lot to the unfortunates who live in them.

Yes, the project has been chronically mismanaged, but every single large-scale capital project in the UK which has been undertaken in my lifetime (with the exception of the Welsh national stadium in Cardiff) has suffered the same fate.

[Beefster]

I've just read this morning that, with the trams continuing, the only way that they will be able to make a profit is by going to St Andrew's Square. However, that profit will only be £2m per annum. This appears to suggest that it will be 375 years, without worrying about inflation etc, before they pay for themselves.

Am I missing something?

[Woody1985]

You're not thinking big enough. Just think how much extra tourism and people it will bring to the city centre.

On each of my five trips to Amsterdam the trams were in the forefront of my mind. I got on them once.

[Steve-O]

I think im the only person in Edinburgh who thinks its a good thing that the trams are actually going to get finished now so much money has been sunk into them?:tin hat:

I agree.

The whole thing has been a farce and a shambles BUT scrapping it for 730million quid to have been spent on NOTHING would just be the final insult!

[heretoday]

You're not thinking big enough. Just think how much extra tourism and people it will bring to the city centre.

On each of my five trips to Amsterdam the trams were in the forefront of my mind. I got on them once.


That's right. We don't have enough tourists in Edinburgh, especially in the summer months. Trams will make all the difference.

I got on a tram in Amsterdam once too. And I got off it without paying.

[khib70]

Agree totally. No time for the shivering band of jakey's who want to shuffle onto to one of those, slow, twisting, smelly, bumpy second rate buses. It's obscene that a city which calls itself a capital has no modern rapid transit system when rat-traps like...well, I won't name the towns because I'm a gentlemen and I'm sure they mean a lot to the unfortunates who live in them.

Yes, the project has been chronically mismanaged, but every single large-scale capital project in the UK which has been undertaken in my lifetime (with the exception of the Welsh national stadium in Cardiff) has suffered the same fate.
It's abundantly clear that you have spent far too much time lolling the hand-tooled leather upholstery of your Bentley, Bob. Your description of our current bus system is only mildly accurate as a description of Edinburgh Corporation Transport sometime in the mid sixties.

Lothian Buses have one of the largest and most modern bus fleets in the country, are efficient, cheap and have excellent coverage. They have won a number of awards as Britain's best bus company.

And anyway, your point is irrelevant, as the farcical tram "system" will not even now replace the no22 bus, far less all the rest. It will only possibly replace the already excellent Airlink 100 service, which has some of the newest and best-appointed vehicles in the country.

At the end of the day the trams will only reach about 15% of the indigenous population. 100% however will be paying for it, as will their grandchildren.

[Jack]

I doubt the line to Newhaven will be completed in my lifetime. The silence has been absolutely deafening from anyone in authority about this part of the line for a good many months. The spin has been that the tram will go from the airport to Haymarket / St Andrews Square. Not once have I heard mention that the line from there to Newhaven has been cancelled / abandoned. I think it shows the true colours of what this tram lark was all about. It was never intended for the people of Edinburgh and Leith its all about the councils top priority of taking care of tourists – turning Edinburgh into a resort and using Leith as a dumping ground!

I was poo pood when I mentioned at the outset of this misguided project that on a personal level the work on Leith Walk was costing me an extra half hour or so travel every day for 18 months. For what we’re getting now its £200M extra.
However what has never been costed is the time wasted by the 10s of thousands of people like me; and businesses; and fuel wasted; and carbon flung in the air by the diversions and delays the works have caused.

At least I still have my job, unlike the many whose businesses went tits up … and spare a thought for those whose businesses were already struggling with the recession et al who had the extra whammy of this failed Disney ride to contend with.

They should mount a tram on the Parthenon on Calton Hill (photoshop opportunity there for someone) the jail the ****ers that were responsible.


90+ days late already.

[--------]

Read something recently about the city and tramworks etc, think it was a guy going on about how Edinburgh was changing and growing, being recognised as an urban force in europe or something, never read so much bollox in my entire life. Mentioned something along the lines of "Edinburgh has trams and the waterfront, big changes to modernise"..........No, we don't have the trams, we have big ****ing holes in the road and listed buildings being demolished, ambulances delayed at junctions because of rank traffic management, businesses crippled and shutting up shop, and if you like the waterfront so much, then go bloody live there yourself, there's an adequate bus service, you'll never wait more than 5 minutes for a 22.

Don't get me started on the Scottish Parliament, how much money have we wasted in this country on utter rubbish in the past few years? how many millions? billions? and for example....we're sitting with tens of thousands of families on council house waiting lists living on bread and water working in jobs that are paying less and less as the pay increases are frozen and the inflation is rising, for all that money we've wasted we could have built a couple of hundred thousand council houses, bang, one of this countrys biggest problems gone, and that's just one situation we could have sorted amongst many more........

Scottish Parliament £414.4 million
Trams £440 million spent to date, £545 million entire budget (that number WILL increase MASSIVELY)

There's almost a billion quid spent on 2 things we didn't need (Am I correct in saying we could have used the old Royal High School for the Parliament? Sure the Holyrood Inquiry will be available online to read but can't be ersed.)




Totally agree.

By the end of it, over £1 billion will have been spent on those two projects needlessly. The RHS building would have been perfectly acceptable as a Parliament building - not to mention the fact that it looks a hell of a lot better than the monstrosity Dewar and his cronies finally settled on), and the tram projects has been an embarrassment and a fiasco from start to wherever we are now (certainly nowhere near the finish).

To make a point - £960 million has already been spent/committed to these projects. Our local hospice, St Andrew's, which is run by the Sisters of Charity who have to raise £2.5 million annually to make up the shortfall between need and funding.

Politicians like Dewar and McConnell who push through vanity projects like these - and the ones like the Edinburgh councillors who have been using the trams as a nice wee gravy-train for the past few years should be locked up; they're a bloody disgrace, all of them.

[One Day Soon]

Totally agree.

By the end of it, over £1 billion will have been spent on those two projects needlessly. The RHS building would have been perfectly acceptable as a Parliament building - not to mention the fact that it looks a hell of a lot better than the monstrosity Dewar and his cronies finally settled on), and the tram projects has been an embarrassment and a fiasco from start to wherever we are now (certainly nowhere near the finish).

To make a point - £960 million has already been spent/committed to these projects. Our local hospice, St Andrew's, which is run by the Sisters of Charity who have to raise £2.5 million annually to make up the shortfall between need and funding.

Politicians like Dewar and McConnell who push through vanity projects like these - and the ones like the Edinburgh councillors who have been using the trams as a nice wee gravy-train for the past few years should be locked up; they're a bloody disgrace, all of them.

I have many criticisms of the tram project management. But what do you mean by the point above?

[Antifa Hibs]

Fitba grounds, paraliament buildings, bridges, tunnels etc all go over budget. Dunno why anyone thought this would be any different.

Having used the Manchester trams last weekend, I say bring on the trams. Quality wee service :agree:

[GlesgaeHibby]

Is this the next generation who will have seen some nurseries and schools closed due to a lack of funding from the council who try cover up how much money they wasted on this project?

Whatever money is left in the pot should be spent on hybrid buses that will bring emissions down by about 30% which is a decent enough start to tackling pollution in the city. I still believe that congestion charging should have gone ahead too as people who live in nicer houses for less money in the outlying regions should be forced to pay for the deterioration they contribute to our crumbling road network.

They do, Fuel Duty and Road Tax. I'm probably paying about £1000/year in Duty and Road tax. Most of that money isn't spent on our roads of course, but that is an entirely different debate.

The tram project has been a total farce, but I think it would be mad to cancel it now having already thrown so much money at it. Once complete it will be a great service, being able to get to the airport in around 20mins from the city centre.

[Cropley10]

They do, Fuel Duty and Road Tax. I'm probably paying about £1000/year in Duty and Road tax. Most of that money isn't spent on our roads of course, but that is an entirely different debate.

The tram project has been a total farce, but I think it would be mad to cancel it now having already thrown so much money at it. Once complete it will be a great service, being able to get to the airport in around 20mins from the city centre.

20 mins to get to Gogar terminus, then it'll be a short hop on the courtesy bus to the terminal building itself :wink:

If we wanted a fast, quick service to the airport, why didn't we build a railway station at the airport, the line is at the end of the runway after all.

The whole thing is bonkers. Don't get me started on it's green claims :grrr:

[GlesgaeHibby]

20 mins to get to Gogar terminus, then it'll be a short hop on the courtesy bus to the terminal building itself :wink:

If we wanted a fast, quick service to the airport, why didn't we build a railway station at the airport, the line is at the end of the runway after all.

The whole thing is bonkers. Don't get me started on it's green claims :grrr:

Totally agree.

[Hibbyradge]

I think im the only person in Edinburgh who thinks its a good thing that the trams are actually going to get finished now so much money has been sunk into them?:tin hat:

I'm with you.

I've supported the trams from the outset and I'll be delighted when they're up and running.

The project has been managed horribly, but the trams will be good for the city.

[LancashireHibby]

If we wanted a fast, quick service to the airport, why didn't we build a railway station at the airport, the line is at the end of the runway after all.

The idea seems to be catching on as GMPTE have announced plans for a Metrolink station at Manchester Airport, despite already having a railway station with direct trains even as far as Edinburgh. Oh, and extending the Metrolink to the likes of Oldham, Rochdale and Ashton-under-Lyne that already have rail links to Manchester while completely ignoring the other side of the city in favour of some stupid 'guided busway' plans at twice the cost!

[Dashing Bob S]

I'm with you.

I've supported the trams from the outset and I'll be delighted when they're up and running.

The project has been managed horribly, but the trams will be good for the city.

And me. Always said that trams were a high end premium form of transport becoming a supposedly capital city. These shoogly wee buses are an embarrassment, used only by jakeys and old people. Leave them to the Falkirk's, Dundee's and Glescas of this world.

Lets develop a modern urban transit system and hang the expense. Nuthin too good for Bobby's town, no siree.

[hibsbollah]

And me. Always said that trams were a high end premium form of transport becoming a supposedly capital city. These shoogly wee buses are an embarrassment, used only by jakeys and old people. Leave them to the Falkirk's, Dundee's and Glescas of this world.

Lets develop a modern urban transit system and hang the expense. Nuthin too good for Bobby's town, no siree.

Couldnt agree more. I think when the trams finish we should start work on an elevated monorail, possibly a hovertrain, and a squad of mini hovercraft-taxis up and down the water of leith. Build it and they will come.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm with you.

I've supported the trams from the outset and I'll be delighted when they're up and running.

The project has been managed horribly, but the trams will be good for the city.

:agree:


Couldnt agree more. I think when the trams finish we should start work on an elevated monorail, possibly a hovertrain, and a squad of mini hovercraft-taxis up and down the water of leith. Build it and they will come.

And a fleet of Johnny Cabs for the town centre as well - time to unlock Edinburgh's potential :thumbsup:

[Dashing Bob S]

Couldnt agree more. I think when the trams finish we should start work on an elevated monorail, possibly a hovertrain, and a squad of mini hovercraft-taxis up and down the water of leith. Build it and they will come.

Couldn't agree more. Let's get an underground railway dug from Waverley Station to Leith, right under the Forth to Kirkcaldy. A bit like the Bay Area Transit System in San Francisco. (BART). We could call it the Forth Area Transit System.

[hibsbollah]

Its all about thinking big. Much of the funding and building materials could be accessed through demolishing Gorgie/Dalry, constructing a new Nor Loch in its place and charging €5 a time for pedalo boat rides. The Forth Area Regional Transit System could be self funding and improve Edinburgh to boot. Vote for DBS, you know it makes sense.

[Mibbes Aye]

Its all about thinking big. Much of the funding and building materials could be accessed through demolishing Gorgie/Dalry, constructing a new Nor Loch in its place and charging €5 a time for pedalo boat rides. The Forth Area Regional Transit System could be self funding and improve Edinburgh to boot. Vote for DBS, you know it makes sense.

It is about thinking big and also not being scared of innovation.

In future years we will need to look beyond South-East Scotland as we colonise the distant galaxies and stars. It strikes me that this subterranean rail link between Edinburgh and the Kingdom could serve a second purpose, namely as a bespoke training environment for the next generation of astronauts.

'Forth Area Regional Transit System in a Spacesuit' as a tentative name for the project:dunno:

[One Day Soon]

Pah. We cannot be constrained by such parochial thinking.

There's a whole North Sea rim community to be linked up and developed. We should be digging under water to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Belgium and Holland.

The logical and economically irrefutable case is to create a community of Nordic under sea common transport interest. This can then develops into an Arc of Related Sea Entities by collectively tunneling first to Iceland, then Greenland and finally North America.

The crowning glory will be the finalised artery which will be known as the Canada Under-Nautical Transport System.

[Dashing Bob S]

Its all about thinking big. Much of the funding and building materials could be accessed through demolishing Gorgie/Dalry, constructing a new Nor Loch in its place and charging €5 a time for pedo boat rides. The Forth Area Regional Transit System could be self funding and improve Edinburgh to boot. Vote for DBS, you know it makes sense.

As they say, fixed it for you.