Eddie Turnbull

[johnrebus]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

[jacomo]

All of this was before my time, so I really appreciate this interesting perspective on ET's time as boss at Hibs.

It makes you wonder what could have been if Hibs had fulfilled their potential back then.

RIP Eddie.

[FranckSuzy]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

Great post. I was too young to remember any of this but have heard all about the great teams and games. Can I just ask though, re the part in bold, how did this attitude not affect Brian Clough and his teams? By all accounts he was all of the above used to describe Ned and more :greengrin

[johnrebus]

Great post. I was too young to remember any of this but have heard all about the great teams and games. Can I just ask though, re the part in bold, how did this attitude not affect Brian Clough and his teams? By all accounts he was all of the above used to describe Ned and more :greengrin



Peter Taylor.


PS

Watch the film 'The Damned United'
You'll get the idea.

[Sammy7nil]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

Very Good Post :top marks:top marks

[superfurryhibby]

Interesting post.

I believe Eddie's attitude towards not signing Catholics stood in his way of being offered the Rangers job.

I believe quite a few of the Tornado's have also commented on Eddie's "man management" skills as being a factor in that team not achieving the success it should have. Pat Stanton certainly does so in "The Quiet Man". Another major factor in the underachievement was that Eddie broke the team up too early. O'Rourke and then Gordon were released when they both had a lot to ofer Hibs. There was also the failure to sign a top quality centre half, instead Eddie signed Harper. Given that the team had been scoring freely this seems a strange signing, even from a thirty seven year on perspective.

Perhaps more than anything however, was the fact that Celtic were still a top European side. They had reached the final of the Eurpoean Cup in 1970 and were still regular visitors to the latter stages throughout the golden years of the tornado's. This was a huge obstacle to greater success. The rangers side of that era were not to shoddy either, winning the Cup Winners Cup in 1972-73(ish).

[heretoday]

It was great following Hibs in those days. You always felt we had a chance at winning something. It was just a pleasure to watch the team playing such attractive football.

Trouble is it didn't last long and the final haul of one LC and 2 Dryboroughs was pretty thin at the end of the day.

[McD]

Interesting post.

I believe Eddie's attitude towards not signing Catholics stood in his way of being offered the Rangers job.

I believe quite a few of the Tornado's have also commented on Eddie's "man management" skills as being a factor in that team not achieving the success it should have. Pat Stanton certainly does so in "The Quiet Man". Another major factor in the underachievement was that Eddie broke the team up too early. O'Rourke and then Gordon were released when they both had a lot to ofer Hibs. There was also the failure to sign a top quality centre half, instead Eddie signed Harper. Given that the team had been scoring freely this seems a strange signing, even from a thirty seven year on perspective.

Perhaps more than anything however, was the fact that Celtic were still a top European side. They had reached the final of the Eurpoean Cup in 1970 and were still regular visitors to the latter stages throughout the golden years of the tornado's. This was a huge obstacle to greater success. The rangers side of that era were not to shoddy either, winning the Cup Winners Cup in 1972-73(ish).

I wasn't alive at the time, but my old man said the same virtually word for word just a few days before Eddie passed away.

[DaveF]

What a great OP and while not one I can challenge directly as I wasn't around during ET's tenure as manager, it's a very open and honest apprasial from a fan who was there to see it.

Be interesting to see if any other fans of your vintage share your sentiments.

Well written and a good read :aok:

[johnrebus]

Interesting post.

I believe Eddie's attitude towards not signing Catholics stood in his way of being offered the Rangers job.

I believe quite a few of the Tornado's have also commented on Eddie's "man management" skills as being a factor in that team not achieving the success it should have. Pat Stanton certainly does so in "The Quiet Man". Another major factor in the underachievement was that Eddie broke the team up too early. O'Rourke and then Gordon were released when they both had a lot to ofer Hibs. There was also the failure to sign a top quality centre half, instead Eddie signed Harper. Given that the team had been scoring freely this seems a strange signing, even from a thirty seven year on perspective.

Perhaps more than anything however, was the fact that Celtic were still a top European side. They had reached the final of the Eurpoean Cup in 1970 and were still regular visitors to the latter stages throughout the golden years of the tornado's. This was a huge obstacle to greater success. The rangers side of that era were not to shoddy either, winning the Cup Winners Cup in 1972-73(ish).

Spot on.

That, and the failure to sign a top class goalkeeper. Heriot may have been a character, but he was also the other weak link.

:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

I think this is about the post I've read on the site. It tells more than the balanced story of Ned, more even than the missed opportunities for Hibs, but its also the tale of the tragedy that is Scottish football.

Had Hibs in 60's and 70's taken their chances of greatness, like Hearts in the 80's, the Scottish game would be more balanced now and not in the moribund mess it is.

[heretoday]

As said above Hibs went for Harper when the sum of £120,000 could have secured a couple of defenders.

All through the Tornado era Hibs defence was often caught square, particularly by Celtic.

Blackley had a lot of class but speed was not his forte and I can recall him getting pelters from the enclosure for giving the ball away doing fancy dan stuff.

[KWJ]

Great read, thanks for posting your insights which must have been a little difficult with a fear of backlash.

As my age shows I'm too young to have seen the Tornadoes in the flesh and to have lived through such a golden era of our clubs fine history but I have heard many a story, read up and watched the matches and interviews. The Turnbull's Tornadoes video certainly is interesting with regards to the Harper signing and the 72/73 season where Stanton regrets Turnbull's decision to work the players harder in training after the New Year.

Turnbull's answers for the Harper signing do make sense, on paper he did very well. It seems very apparent however that it caused much friction on and off the pitch in the Hibernian family.

What might have been? Perhaps but as others have mentioned we were up against the greatest Scottish football team there's ever been.

I was unaware that we had been on the verge of signing Hanson & Strachan, when was this? If we'd been able to carry on with our high league finishes and perhaps won a few more trophies then success could have bred more success and we'd possibly be a very different force to what we are now and have been over the past 30 years. Then again, the poor away support and even home support was no match to the Old Firm so most likely not.

Better to have loved and lost never to have loved at all as they say.

I can only really relate to the glory days of Latapy, Sauzee and co and for that brief time of Mowbray's babes but those two teams within about 10 season tickets and matches spanning from a 1989 cup match v Alloa and the last derby are well worth treasuring for what they were.

[stanton_4]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

Excellent post and if Eddie had realised his short comings then we may have had the success you talk of. If only he had a Peter Taylor to offset his difficulty in man management. There's no doubt he did break up a wonderful team too early but I've often wondered how much of that was down to him and how much of it was down to the changing climate in football in general. Player loyalty was all but gone and instead of sticking around they went in search of better opportunities elsewhere... be it silverware or money... or regular first team football for that matter. Eddie was a great manager but he was stuck in his ways and I don't think he adapted to these changes. He was forced to replace true talent with players that simply weren't good enough. Having said that it wasn't just down to him. The club as a whole didn't move with the times. I loved the fact that George Best came to us but just imagine if that money had been spent on wages or transfers of more long term solutions. This after all was what Eddie would have preferred. I went along yesterday to bid farewell to a man who had given me my best times as a Hibs supporter. Total respect.

[johnrebus]

Great read, thanks for posting your insights which must have been a little difficult with a fear of backlash.

As my age shows I'm too young to have seen the Tornadoes in the flesh and to have lived through such a golden era of our clubs fine history but I have heard many a story, read up and watched the matches and interviews. The Turnbull's Tornadoes video certainly is interesting with regards to the Harper signing and the 72/73 season where Stanton regrets Turnbull's decision to work the players harder in training after the New Year.

Turnbull's answers for the Harper signing do make sense, on paper he did very well. It seems very apparent however that it caused much friction on and off the pitch in the Hibernian family.

What might have been? Perhaps but as others have mentioned we were up against the greatest Scottish football team there's ever been.

I was unaware that we had been on the verge of signing Hanson & Strachan, when was this? If we'd been able to carry on with our high league finishes and perhaps won a few more trophies then success could have bred more success and we'd possibly be a very different force to what we are now and have been over the past 30 years. Then again, the poor away support and even home support was no match to the Old Firm so most likely not.

Better to have loved and lost never to have loved at all as they say.

I can only really relate to the glory days of Latapy, Sauzee and co and for that brief time of Mowbray's babes but those two teams within about 10 season tickets and matches spanning from a 1989 cup match v Alloa and the last derby are well worth treasuring for what they were.


As youngsters.

Strachan signed for Dundee instead. Hansen joined his brother at Partick Thistle.

[stu in nottingham]

Great post. I was too young to remember any of this but have heard all about the great teams and games. Can I just ask though, re the part in bold, how did this attitude not affect Brian Clough and his teams? By all accounts he was all of the above used to describe Ned and more :greengrin


Peter Taylor.


PS

Watch the film 'The Damned United'
You'll get the idea.

First of all, terrific opening post. As has been said, an honest and fair appraisal of the great man's strengths and weaknesses.

I'm always interested in the comparison between Ned and Brian Clough and I think it's a very appropriate one. Regarding the latter, it's very true to say that Peter Taylor was the man who would build up the players' confidence after the Clough 'treatment', there were far more levels to it than that though maybe. Clough had a way of making his players believe themselves to be world beaters, players like winger John Robertson would tell you that they absolutely lived for a simple 'thumbs up' from Brian in the dugout when they had done something well.

It is also true to say that Clough attitude did affect his club (Forest) negatively in some ways too. As much as we have heard of the likes of Hearts' John Robertson not signing for Hibs due to Eddie's attitude, the very same thing happened more than once with Clough - notably with Gary McAllister who refused to sign for Forest when just reaching his peak years after a slight from Clough. The rest of his career with Leeds, Scotland et al speaks for itself at that miss. There were other issues with other talented internationalist players such as Asa Hartford and John Sheridan who played little under Clough before being shown the door.

Regarding Eddie, like many, I agree that when his patience ran out with the Tornadoes he made a grave error in wanting to change things too quickly, with the benefit of hindsight. That doesn't for me take away fantastic memories of the team that he built though. I know that we all agree too that very few - if any - have contributed to the Hibernian cause in the way he has.

[bawheid]

I may be wrong, but I thought the reason that John Robertson didn't sign for Hibs was because the then chairman (Tom Hart?) demanded he sign there and then.

Robertson wanted to speak to his brother before signing for anyone and so refused. He was told if he didn't sign then, he wouldn't sign. He didn't sign and the rest is history.

What was Turnbull's input?

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Agree with most of the op. It should also be remembered that Turnbull had the good fortune to inherit a team of great players coming into their peak- Brownlie, Schaedler, Stanton, Blackley. O'Rourke, Cropley and Duncan IIRC. Of course he got the best out of them for a while and added Gordon and Edwards but it does appear his man management skills let him down.

[Jonnyboy]

Great post by the OP :agree:

I also watched Hibs all through the Turnbull years and there's no doubt that Eddie didn't always get it right. Just as well there weren't messageboards in those days :greengrin

He wasn't perfect but he still produced the best Hibs team I've ever seen or am ever likely to see in however many years I have left. Thinking back on those days brings with it mixed emotions. I loved the way we played and the quality we had in our team but conversely it leads me to think just how low we have sunk, with little or no prospect of getting back to that level.

The penalty I pay for being a Hibby I guess :greengrin

[HibbyDave]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.




Yep, I was there in the 70's.
One poignant memory was getting Alan Gordons autograph on the way to Deveronvale for Des Bremner testimonial match (met AG in the Gateside Inn Fife), then meeting ET at the match and asking for his signature.....he saw Alan's autograph then promptly turned the page over and signed....... after asking me where I had met Alan!

miss you Ned!

[The Harp]

I may be wrong, but I thought the reason that John Robertson didn't sign for Hibs was because the then chairman (Tom Hart?) demanded he sign there and then.

Robertson wanted to speak to his brother before signing for anyone and so refused. He was told if he didn't sign then, he wouldn't sign. He didn't sign and the rest is history.

What was Turnbull's input?

That's what I've heard lay behind us missing out on JR, couldn't say for sure though and I've no idea how close Hansen was to signing for us.
Very good OP, though IMHO the main reason the Tornadoes didn't win as much silverware as they should've was because of the quality of the Celtic side at the time. Had it not been for them our long wait for the 'Scottish' could well have ended.

[cabbageandribs1875]

it was only jock steins sellick that stopped a rake of leagues/cups coming to ER :agree:

[BSEJVT]

Some excellent posts on this thread, mostly IMO bang on the mark.

I dont think anyone whoever watched the Tornadoes will ever have seen anything like it is Scottish Football since and much to the pity is ever likely to again.

My late father knew Eddie and with hindsight Eddie admitted to him that he had lost patience with the Tornadoes and broken up that team to early.

My own perspective is that a rule of fear can last only so long and after that loses some of its effect.

Eddie however deserves to be held on as a high a pedestal as any Hibs Legend past or future.

Somewhere in my minds eye I will always be able to conjure up memories of watching them at their peak. Truly Truly magnificent.

I remember my dad telling me that he felt sorry for me as I had never seen the Famous Five.

I have often told my son the same about the Tornadoes and whilst Sauzee, Latapy et all were very good and Mowbray & Collins's team briefly flickered
the Tornadoes were light years ahead of either.

Can you imagine 3 Hibs players scoring over a 100 goals in one season between them?

RIP Eddie

GGTTH

[johnrebus]

it was only jock steins sellick that stopped a rake of leagues/cups coming to ER :agree:

Its difficult to argue with that, Celtic were an exceptional side.

However, they were on the slide after 1970 and they could be vulnerable. But the thing is, we were on a par with and often better than them. We had players at least as good, with a couple of glaring weak links unfortunately, but what we lacked was an edge to the side. Eddie Turnbull did try to put this right by signing Roy Barry, but he was well past his best by then and it was too late. I think if we could have got someone like him in three or fours years earlier, we would be discussing a whole different legacy right now.

Someone mentioned earlier that Rangers were a great side at this time too, winning the European Cup Winners Cup.

I can well recall the next competive match the Huns played that year.

It was a Drybrough Cup semi final at Easter Road and we beat them 3-0 going on nine. I remember thinking that if that lot can win a European trophy, then what can we achieve?

:flag:

[Hamish]

As said above Hibs went for Harper when the sum of £120,000 could have secured a couple of defenders.

All through the Tornado era Hibs defence was often caught square, particularly by Celtic.

Blackley had a lot of class but speed was not his forte and I can recall him getting pelters from the enclosure for giving the ball away doing fancy dan stuff.

Sloop wasn't the only one who got pelters. As Jonnyboy says if the messageboard had been around then :greengrin

[Dan Sarf]

Fascinating read.

Not sure the comparison with Clough is accurate though.

I never met Eddie though I watched him play with the Famous Four (Bobby had gone by the time I started going to Easter Road) and his power and drive was awesome both at inside left and later as our midfield dynamo.

Years later, I saw Brian Clough at work behind the scenes at Forest - I'd written a TV commercial featuring him and the team - and spent the day at the Forest ground. (We travelled up from London in a helicopter and landed on the pitch. Clough came striding out to meet us. His first words were, "Typical bloody admen, pissing your money away." Abrasive but true!)

It was fascinating to witness the team's attitude to Clough - this was in the days of Des Walker and Gary Birtles. Basically, he was like their dad. They clearly loved and respected him and listened carefully to every word he said. Gary Birtles was not long back from Manchester United and told me hated it there, "Ron Atkinson was a horrible man, he was always moaning, always on your back."

As is well known, Clough could also be a tyrant but I think he had brilliant management skills. Unlike our much-missed Ned.

[Forza Fred]

I followed the Tornadoes, and hence why I shake my head these days with what's on offer..but I digress.

There is no doubt that ET broke the team up too early..the signing of Harper and transfer of Jimmy O'rourke has already been covered.

Jimmy is as big a Hibby as any on here, and if anybody could hold a grudge against ET it should be Jimmy, but I once asked him what he thought about ET and far from lashing him with vitriol, his answer was... that ET had made him a better player.

So while ET would never get a job as a politician, he obviously DID know his stuff when it came to fitba.

Maybe its the sgng of a bygone era too..when players could obviously accept that the manager may be a bit of a tyrant, but they simply buckled down and got on with it.

[Baker9]

Great post by the OP :agree:

I also watched Hibs all through the Turnbull years and there's no doubt that Eddie didn't always get it right. Just as well there weren't messageboards in those days :greengrin

He wasn't perfect but he still produced the best Hibs team I've ever seen or am ever likely to see in however many years I have left. Thinking back on those days brings with it mixed emotions. I loved the way we played and the quality we had in our team but conversely it leads me to think just how low we have sunk, with little or no prospect of getting back to that level.The penalty I pay for being a Hibby I guess :greengrin

I hope and prefer to believe that we have 'little prospect' rather than 'no prospect'. We are attempting a mini ManU 'kids' revolution. It is a risky strategy but I have to believe that CC is the man to do it. Good luck to us and there is hope.:thumbsup:

Eddie Turnbull, warts and all, is a complete legend twice over, as a great player and one of our best ever managers. May he rest in peace and may there be no messageboards to make him angry wherever he is!

[Boris]

Excellent OP - hits the mark & summarises the position without being disrespectful.

Can recall a function in the Hibs Club about 4 or 5 years ago & Eddie was on stage for a sort of fans question & answer thing. All was going well, Eddie as blunt & honest in his answers & opinions as ever, & clearly emjoying himself. Then one lad stood up & asked Eddie if he regretted breaking up the Tornadoes side too quickly by signing Joe Harper. A fair enough question you might say but Eddie went ballistic & was going to walk off stage before calming down - it was a sight to behold!

What came across that night was that the catalyst for breaking up the side was the defeat in Hajduk Split & Eddie clearly felt that some players bottled it that night & that he felt they were good enough to actually win the trophy.

[Bostonhibby]

Have waited until after the great man's funeral is past to post my thoughts on him.

Its normal at times like these to concentrate on all the good things - and rightly so, but I really have pretty mixed feelings about Eddie Turnbull and his time as manager at Hibernian Football club.

I travelled home and away to every game back in the late sixties and seventies, usually be public transport and have many great memories of watching the Tornadoes. But even back then as a daft teenager, it was always in the back if my mine that this team should be achieving far, far more than it was.

Ronnie Allen, the English manager of Sporting Lisbon, described the 6-1 Uefa Cup match at Easter Road, as being the greatest display of attacking football he had ever seen anywhere in all his time in the game. Tellingly, former Scotland manager Ally McLeod, once said Hibs should have won the league at least twice in the early seventies, but were let down by a poor away support, whereas the Old Firm had a great advantage in this respect.

There is no doubt that Turnbull should have been much more revered as the innovative coach and tactical expert that he was. He was head and shoulders above everyone else, including Jock Stein, in that respect

That he did not work in England or with the Old Firm will have much to do with that, but the main reason for what has to be described as under achievement was down to his complete lack of man management skills.

People laugh and joke about this now. About how Ned did not suffer fools at all, never mind gladly. Hard but fair, curmadgeonly and all the rest of it, but his lack of tact and any form of diplomacy harmed his own reputation and held back real progress for his beloved Hibernian.

Over the years, stories have emerged about how things were back in the early seventies with Ned. He was almost unaproachable with the players. Pat Stanton in particular has not been glowing in his description of Turnbulls methods, and Pat is not a man to be uncharitable about anyone.

But the saddest thing of all for me, is that we missed out on players of the calibre of Gordon Strachan, Alan Hansen and John Robertson to name but three, who were all on the verge of signing for the club, before changing their minds as a direct result of the managers attitude.

With the garbage we had had to watch on the park recently, it is easy to drift back and remember how it was back then. The League Cup Final, the sevin nil game, scoring goals for fun. Jimmy O'Rourke bagging six hat tricks inside three months, Alex Cropley running along the touchline at Bayview with the ball balanced on his head, Alan Gordons gracefull leaps to nod the ball into the back of the neck, Erichs long throw ins, Sloop, 'doing' John Greig in front of his own fans at Ibrox........, We thumped the Huns so often, we should have got to keep them. But all these memories remain tinged with sadness, because there should have been more, so much more.


I did not go to see the great man off yesterday.

I had planned to, but at the last minute I couldn't face it. The sight of a sad middle aged git standing with tears running down his face for a man he didn't even know is probably not an edifying sight.


Despite all this, Eddie Turnbulls name should be up there with Stein, Shankly, Ferguson and the rest of them.

He never had hundreds of thousands to spend on players, but still managed to produce a brand of football it was worth walking miles to see.

RIP Eddie.

:not worth


PS

If Shades is up there, tell him he still owes me a fiver.

From one wi very very similar views and memories / thoughts thanks for a simply brilliant post for me. Identify with all of it.

[johnrebus]

Excellent OP - hits the mark & summarises the position without being disrespectful.

Can recall a function in the Hibs Club about 4 or 5 years ago & Eddie was on stage for a sort of fans question & answer thing. All was going well, Eddie as blunt & honest in his answers & opinions as ever, & clearly emjoying himself. Then one lad stood up & asked Eddie if he regretted breaking up the Tornadoes side too quickly by signing Joe Harper. A fair enough question you might say but Eddie went ballistic & was going to walk off stage before calming down - it was a sight to behold!

What came across that night was that the catalyst for breaking up the side was the defeat in Hajduk Split & Eddie clearly felt that some players bottled it that night & that he felt they were good enough to actually win the trophy.


After thrashing Sporting Lisbon and Besa of Albania, we were joint favourites with Leeds United to win the trophy.

:agree: