10 team SPL breakaway [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

HibbyDave

06-05-2011, 09:22 AM

Secret phone calls to put pressure on chairmen according to Steve Thomson at Dundee Utd. If this is how the chairmen of the supposed bigger clubs think is anacceptable way to "sway" the rebelious clubs then clearly the goalposts are being moved/toys out of pram etc etc.

The Dundee Utd chairman should now start naming and shaming the people who are calling him to put the pressure on. It's the only way fans will get to know what their club stands for.

Just say NO to a ten team league. Not Posturing.....Just fed up with the whole system and determined not to give in. No season ticket renewal is THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE MESSAGE THROUGH.

one day maybe...

06-05-2011, 09:43 AM

I wish everyone would stop posturing and that includes the fans. by and large people would return to watch on tv or otherwise whether 10 or 12.
Unfortunately they have us by the short and curlies.

I hardly go to the football these days as its gash and I mean GASH. 10 or12 or even a 16 team league doesnt matter for me right know, as for watching Scottish football on TV, aye right! Its murder, empty stadiums, no atmosphere.
I wish there was no live football, apart from major tournaments (World, European) and European & Domestic Cup finals, then maybe people would go back to football and it wouldn't be about the fat cats and their greed, but it will never happen I know that.

I pick and choose matches that I feel I may get value for money for or entertainment, and throw in the added value of a day out with old mates (probably the best part of the day).
I loved going to the games in the mid eighties, yes there was bother, yes we had not beat Hearts for years (but I still went with hope), we had standing at the games and somehow the crowd seemed to generate an atmosphere, on occassions a hostile one, though I would not like to return to the days of darts and golfballs being thrown by sections of the home and away supports. The last time I felt really good at the football was the game in Essen, beer, a good crack and standing, it was a day out and a terrific day at that, we could learn a lot from the way the Germans do things at the football, it wasn't just about the football it was about the whole day. Unfortunately in Scotland we seem to have lost sight of the most important thing, us the customer
I get hardly any enjoyment out of folowing Hibs these days, on the odd occasion yes. Maybe its an age thing, family committements who knows. What I do know is that I will always be a Hibby and will always want them to win even if they are playing tiiddlywinks, but what the current SPL set up gives us is a predictable outcome every season, I for one am totally fed up of it. Who cares which part of the OF are going to win the league, we all know for sure that one of them will and will continue to do so for the very foreseeable future.
I wish that it wasn't that way, but until the powers that be try to level the playing field, all we are ever going to have is OF dominance and dwindling attendances. :boo hoo:

Kojock

06-05-2011, 09:52 AM

New tactic from Doncaster....... presumably supported by Petrie

Thomson says "I have not been cornered in a boardroom so far but there has been a few threats to those who haven't agreed to this package that has been put in front of us.

That explains why I saw Rod and his heavies hanging about Tannadice armed with baseball bats. I remember thinking at the time that Rod had never mentioned he played baseball. :confused:

alexedwards

06-05-2011, 10:37 AM

They will stop at nothing to get their way.
Let's balloon this west-coast mob into orbit and go for a 10-team East of Scotland Premier League - the ESPL.
Following teams to start; Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee United, St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers, Livingston & Inverness.
Play-offs versus West Scotland Sectarian League - the WSSL for euro places at season-end. Atmospheres, attendances would increase if the above clubs thought they might win silverware - no doubt about that.
There are thousands of non OF supporters who don't go any more because of sectarianism, bias and constant benefits aimed at OF.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 10:49 AM

marinello59

06-05-2011, 10:51 AM

Hermit Crab

06-05-2011, 10:54 AM

Until the SFA listen to the fans and stop worrying about lining their already bulging pockets then we will always have to play 2nd fiddle to what the old firm want. Sad but true.

Clubs need to grow a pair and stand up to them. Weve been dictated to for years by the OF and it has to stop. Maybe a mass boycott is the answer as a poster above points out.

down the slope

06-05-2011, 11:14 AM

So you are against a ten team league and your alternative proposal is a weakened ten team league? :confused:
Is it just the Old Firm you are against then rather than the concept of a ten team SPL?

I bet you must love repeats on the telly ?, why not make it a six team league and play each other eight times then you could see all your "better teams" as much as you like. Why do you have this love affair with the OF ?, if you want to see them so much why don't you just toddle along the M8 every week and stop being their mouthpiece on here.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 11:19 AM

I bet you must love repeats on the telly ?, why not make it a six team league and play each other eight times then you could see all your "better teams" as much as you like. Why do you have this love affair with the OF ?, if you want to see them so much why don't you just toddle along the M8 every week and stop being their mouthpiece on here.

:confused:
It's the poster I quoted who proposed a ten team league. I favour an 18 team league but don't think we can go straight to that.
What love afair with the Old firm? I think I can safely say they are the two strongest teams in the league without claiming any affection for them. Can't I?
Mouthpiece for the Old Firm? If you are so sure of your ground then why not stick to the issues rather than getting personal?

down the slope

06-05-2011, 11:42 AM

:confused:
It's the poster I quoted who proposed a ten team league. I favour an 18 team league but don't think we can go straight to that.
What love afair with the Old firm? I think I can safely say they are the two strongest teams in the league without claiming any affection for them. Can't I?
Mouthpiece for the Old Firm? If you are so sure of your ground then why not stick to the issues rather than getting personal?

Ok maybe i went over the top there but myself and a good few others on here want to see less of the OF rather than more. Football in this country is dying on it's feet and by making the league smaller and more repetitive is not the answer. I think fans in general across the country are fed up with being cannon fodder for the OF and we need to see a much more level playing field in respect of finances than we have at the moment-remember the OF are nothing without the likes of us who provide a platform to showcase their "talents" nearly every week !.
As for the threat of a breakaway league i think that is nonsense and i hope Thompson names and shames the people who were involved in this , i hope that no one from our club would ever do such a thing !.

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 12:05 PM

I am unsure as to whether I am in favour of a 10 team league or not. I am confused in some ways though;

People complain about the crowds - yet the only games we get a decent crowd for are Rangers, Celtic and hearts, surely playing them more times in a season will achieve the goal of better crowds?

There has also been a lot of chat recently about investing heavily in the playing squad, again surely the better attendances we have the more money we get, alas the more we can invest in the team, this would again therefore seem to achieve the goal of a better 11 for Hibs?

I understand the debate around variety, however, I dont think variety is what drives a Hibs support, I cant see fans queuing up to get in to see us play Raith Rovers, Dunfermline and Falkirk like they would Rangers, Celtic and hearts.

SRHibs

06-05-2011, 12:10 PM

Ok maybe i went over the top there but myself and a good few others on here want to see less of the OF rather than more. Football in this country is dying on it's feet and by making the league smaller and more repetitive is not the answer. I think fans in general across the country are fed up with being cannon fodder for the OF and we need to see a much more level playing field in respect of finances than we have at the moment-remember the OF are nothing without the likes of us who provide a platform to showcase their "talents" nearly every week !.
As for the threat of a breakaway league i think that is nonsense and i hope Thompson names and shames the people who were involved in this , i hope that no one from our club would ever do such a thing !.

Your post referred to the fact that a smaller league was suggested, and inferred that it was boring idea. But now you're saying you wouldn't mind a smaller league, just not one containing the Old Firm? Well, you must be a fan of repeats then, eh...? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I'd much rather we played Celtic 4 times a season than a team like Dunfermline, to be quite honest. And is anyone really surprised that we're siding with the Old Firm on this thing? We all know that we're run as a business, and that Rod Petrie loves to maximise any potential profits. It's no different here...

Mikey

06-05-2011, 12:23 PM

presumably supported by Petrie

Why's that then?

But IF it does come to a break away i will never attend another SPL game again.

I still don't get why Hibs fans are willing to turn their back on their own club because they don't like the size of the league.

down the slope

06-05-2011, 12:28 PM

Your post referred to the fact that a smaller league was suggested, and inferred that it was boring idea. But now you're saying you wouldn't mind a smaller league, just not one containing the Old Firm? Well, you must be a fan of repeats then, eh...? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I'd much rather we played Celtic 4 times a season than a team like Dunfermline, to be quite honest. And is anyone really surprised that we're siding with the Old Firm on this thing? We all know that we're run as a business, and that Rod Petrie loves to maximise any potential profits. It's no different here...

I never said i wanted a smaller league 16 would be my preference but i would rather stay with what we have than go to a ten. Maximising profits is not why i go to watch the Hibs for , as i have said on here before most fans do not buy a ST drooling at the thought of who our opponents might be , most fans want us to win playing attractive football against whoever it be it Dunfermline or Celtic. I noticed you said WE are siding with the OF on this thing , i think the likes of you and the board are in the minority when it comes to this.

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 12:33 PM

Why's that then?

I still don't get why Hibs fans are willing to turn their back on their own club because they don't like the size of the league.

horrid nasty accusation retracted

alexedwards

06-05-2011, 12:33 PM

So you are against a ten team league and your alternative proposal is a weakened ten team league? :confused:
Is it just the Old Firm you are against then rather than the concept of a ten team SPL?

Please keep up with the game told you before it was not about the size of the league. You're getting there though - it might just be about the OF.

bawheid

06-05-2011, 12:36 PM

I still don't get why Hibs fans are willing to turn their back on their own club because they don't like the size of the league.

Think it's to do with the standard of the product Mikey, and what we're asked to pay for it. It's becoming poorer value for money each year.

The SPL is rubbish. The old ten team Premier League was even worse.

Some are saying they'd rather watch Celtic twice at home than Raith Rovers once. That's fair enough. It's also fair to say that an attendance for a game versus Partick Thistle would be poor if we were having a dodgy season.

For me though, a 16 or 18 team league with more evenly distributed wealth would be much more entertaining were Hibs to get it right on the park. We'd have a fair chance of beating most of the teams bar the OF, which would make those games against Rangers and Celtic far more exciting, because we'd likely be within striking distance of them rather than 15 points back.

PaulSmith

06-05-2011, 12:38 PM

I still don't get why Hibs fans are willing to turn their back on their own club because they don't like the size of the league.

Me neither, as if by magic having a 16 team with less revenue will make the product on the park better overnight.

bawheid

06-05-2011, 12:43 PM

Me neither, as if by magic having a 16 team with less revenue will make the product on the park better overnight.

Suppose it depends on what you define as "the product". I personally think the product would be better if we weren't watching St Mirren 4/5 times a season.

The way forward for clubs like Hibs is bringing through youth players, whether that's in a 10 team league or an 18 team league. If we don't have the revenue to sign guys like Vaz Te and Dickoh then I wouldn't be too fussed.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 12:43 PM

Please keep up with the game told you before it was not about the size of the league. You're getting there though - it might just be about the OF.

Sorry , I forgot. You were the conspiracy theorist weren't you. :rolleyes:

SRHibs

06-05-2011, 12:45 PM

I never said i wanted a smaller league 16 would be my preference but i would rather stay with what we have than go to a ten. Maximising profits is not why i go to watch the Hibs for , as i have said on here before most fans do not buy a ST drooling at the thought of who our opponents might be , most fans want us to win playing attractive football against whoever it be it Dunfermline or Celtic. I noticed you said WE are siding with the OF on this thing , i think the likes of you and the board are in the minority when it comes to this.

By 'we', I meant Hibs.

As for the 16 team league, well, I just don't see it working. We don't have enough to play for to make it viable. If we had more European places, then maybe, but we could end up with nothing to play for halfway through the season. Attendances would plummet, which, when coupled with the fact that we'd be playing less games - as well as halving the amount of lucrative games we play - it just wouldn't be good for the club.

I think most of us are seeking a better standard of football in the division. A 16 team league is not the way to go about achieving this IMO.

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 12:45 PM

marinello59

06-05-2011, 12:48 PM

Not sure when we develeloped this arrogance that we are above playing against such minnows. Like we are so much better than them?

Has somebody said that? That would be totally different from suggesting that they would not be the most attractive looking fixtures on any list.

SRHibs

06-05-2011, 12:52 PM

Not sure when we develeloped this arrogance that we are above playing against such minnows. Like we are so much better than them?

How did you take that as arrogance? He was simply saying that compared to the Hearts, Celtic and Rangers games, those fixtures just aren't anywhere near as lucrative - which is true, no? We are a bigger club than the 3 mentioned anyway.

Mikey

06-05-2011, 12:56 PM

Also, we need to start talking up Scottish football and stop knocking what we have up here.

Can you tell that to the fans too Stephen?

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 12:56 PM

Has somebody said that? That would be totally different from suggesting that they would not be the most attractive looking fixtures on any list.

The best advice you were given today was to toddle off along the M8

marinello59

06-05-2011, 01:02 PM

The best advice you were given today was to toddle off along the M8
:greengrin
Why not answer the question instead of throwing out snidey remarks?

SRHibs

06-05-2011, 01:03 PM

The best advice you were given today was to toddle off along the M8

Why did you even create this thread if you're seemingly unwilling to contribute? Well, unless posting sarcy remarks can be classed as a contribution. :rolleyes:

:greengrin
Why not answer the question instead of throwing out snidey remarks?

Got there before me. :agree:

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 01:03 PM

Think it's to do with the standard of the product Mikey, and what we're asked to pay for it. It's becoming poorer value for money each year.

The SPL is rubbish. The old ten team Premier League was even worse.

Some are saying they'd rather watch Celtic twice at home than Raith Rovers once. That's fair enough. It's also fair to say that an attendance for a game versus Partick Thistle would be poor if we were having a dodgy season.

For me though, a 16 or 18 team league with more evenly distributed wealth would be much more entertaining were Hibs to get it right on the park. We'd have a fair chance of beating most of the teams bar the OF, which would make those games against Rangers and Celtic far more exciting, because we'd likely be within striking distance of them rather than 15 points back.

First point in bold - I think even if we were having the best season we have had in the last 10 years we would not get 18,000 or thereby to a game like that.

Second point in bold - I dont think this is the case. I think we have seen that our fan basis can shrink by 50% between a pre-top six game and post. Whilst the split may disappear I dont think the fan attendance would be any different to now. If anything worse, therefore there is no way the wealth would be more evenly distrubuted - clubs like rangers, celtic and hearts will always get a better crowd than us. Given the crowd numbers and more lower revenue games I do not see how we could possibly even maintain the current wage bill, which means these clubs would end up further away from us.

May be I am looking at this too finaincially, but I guess the money is what determines everything in the game now, from playing staff right through the club. I just see no way in the world that folk will be jumping out of there bed and getting excited about a game with Raith like they would with Rangers - we would end up with far more crowds like last week, rather than the crowd against rangers at the start of the season.

The one thing I would be insisting on if the league is to change is getting shot of shugging sunday games!

Not sure when we develeloped this arrogance that we are above playing against such minnows. Like we are so much better than them?

I have not developed anything, but you seem to have missed the point. We are not above playing any teams, recent results have shown that. What recent/long running crowd figures have shown is that without a doubt we will get a crowd circa 100% the size of Saturdays if we are playing the likes of rangers, celtic or hearts. That is not even up for debate.

alexedwards

06-05-2011, 01:06 PM

Sorry , I forgot. You were the conspiracy theorist weren't you. :rolleyes:

Looks confirmed from the latest report.

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 01:11 PM

:greengrin
Why not answer the question instead of throwing out snidey remarks?

When you have answered all the questions asked to you (in this thread) I will answer. Gless hooses

marinello59

06-05-2011, 01:13 PM

Looks confirmed from the latest report.

Who do you think are involved then and what are their aims?
If this is true then it's a pretty disatasteful way to behave towards Dundee United but conspiracy? I don't buy in to club chairman doing anything other than act in the interests of their own clubs as they see it.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 01:17 PM

New tactic from Doncaster....... presumably supported by Petrie

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Dundee-United-chair-reveals-SPL.6763364.jp

That would be total madness. It's not even a convincing bluff.

horrid nasty accusation retracted

Not sure when we develeloped this arrogance that we are above playing against such minnows. Like we are so much better than them?

Has somebody said that? That would be totally different from suggesting that they would not be the most attractive looking fixtures on any list.

The best advice you were given today was to toddle off along the M8

:greengrin
Why not answer the question instead of throwing out snidey remarks?

When you have answered all the questions asked to you (in this thread) I will answer. Gless hooses

Please point out your questions. I'll happily try and respond to anything constructive you post up.

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 01:22 PM

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 01:28 PM

Please point out your questions. I'll happily try and respond to anything constructive you post up.

I never said they were my questions. You also told me before not to get invloved with your debated points with others but seems you are allowed to do it with mine. I may be you are a wee touch of a hypocrit

marinello59

06-05-2011, 01:33 PM

I never said they were my questions. You also told me before not to get invloved with your debated points with others but seems you are allowed to do it with mine. I may be you are a wee touch of a hypocrit

No. I didn't. You have just made that up. Isn't the assumption on here that any post is up for discussion? :confused:
Drop the personal stuff please. There really is no need.

You could maybe help me out by pointing out the questions directed at myself that I have missed.

bawheid

06-05-2011, 01:38 PM

Can you tell that to the fans too Stephen?

Scottish football can be good again, at the moment though, it's very very poor. There's no denying it.

We've not qualified for a major tournament for 13 years, our teams regularly get emptied from European competition in July, and no club outside the OF has won the top division since 1985.

Something needs to change, and on the face of it the decline started when we started making our top division smaller. The proposal is to do the same again.

First point in bold - I think even if we were having the best season we have had in the last 10 years we would not get 18,000 or thereby to a game like that.

It depends. If we're 5 points behind the league leaders with 6 games to go I think there would be quite an interest in most games, even Partick Thistle at home.

A bigger league needs to go hand in hand with a fairer distribution of wealth in the game. This would probably be the sticking point though.

Second point in bold - I dont think this is the case. I think we have seen that our fan basis can shrink by 50% between a pre-top six game and post. Whilst the split may disappear I dont think the fan attendance would be any different to now. If anything worse, therefore there is no way the wealth would be more evenly distrubuted - clubs like rangers, celtic and hearts will always get a better crowd than us. Given the crowd numbers and more lower revenue games I do not see how we could possibly even maintain the current wage bill, which means these clubs would end up further away from us.

May be I am looking at this too finaincially, but I guess the money is what determines everything in the game now, from playing staff right through the club. I just see no way in the world that folk will be jumping out of there bed and getting excited about a game with Raith like they would with Rangers - we would end up with far more crowds like last week, rather than the crowd against rangers at the start of the season.

The one thing I would be insisting on if the league is to change is getting shot of shugging sunday games!

I think we are focusing too much on the finances. We need to find our level financially rather than chasing the Old Firm, who are chasing the Champions League. Celtic and Rangers obsession with grabbing as much money as they can in an attempt to challenge in Europe is not doing them any favours - they're miles off. This in turn is harming Scottish football.

An entertaining league with affordable ticket prices and a supporter-friendly TV deal is the only way to increase attendances IMO. I could do without the TV deal actually.

So we wouldn't be able to afford to pay Edwin de Graff his £4k per week? So what? We'd still be able to provide a platform for Scott Brown or Kevin Thomson or Callum Booth to make it in the game - far more entertaining, in my view.

Luna_Asylum

06-05-2011, 01:42 PM

No. I didn't. You have just made that up. Isn't the assumption on here that any post is up for discussion? :confused:
Drop the personal stuff please. There really is no need.

You could maybe help me out by pointing out the questions directed at myself that I have missed.

Capital H

matty_f

06-05-2011, 01:45 PM

Capital H

Why not just debate the points? :dunno:

alexedwards

06-05-2011, 01:45 PM

Who do you think are involved then and what are their aims?
If this is true then it's a pretty disatasteful way to behave towards Dundee United but conspiracy? I don't buy in to club chairman doing anything other than act in the interests of their own clubs as they see it.

Conspiracy theory was your words. Last time out on this particular debate we established that I used the words "smokescreen".
Now the smokescreen appears to be clearing and we find an SPL chairman is suggesting he feels threatened by other members into accepting a 10-team league or his club will be ousted from the league.
The smokescreen didn't work because Doncaster and his buddies tried to railroad the 10-team league and certain others said "wait a minute - not sure about this - can we have accurate information please to back-up your proposal." It seems that was not required in the eyes of Mr. Doncaster and that everyone should just accept his plan. Behind the plan are Celtic/Rangers/Sky who have advised the other clubs if you don't back us (due to our 4 matches per year) your league ain't worth a bolt and people like Petrie/Milne run with this idea. "Hang on" on say other clubs "let's have a closer look at this." But apparently they're not allowed to have a closer look now or they will be threatened with expulsion.
At the start I said I am not here to convince you and have taken valuable time to answer your queries which now must stop as you will never believe that tic/gers /sky are manipulating this position from behind the scenes. I spoke with the journalist Jardine (think 1st name Peter) from the daily mail and immediately he advised me the media will decide on the structure of the SPL. Bad choice of direction - look around the grounds at where ther media have taken us. Stadia at Killie, Inverness, Well are barely quarter full, and continue down this route and there will hundreds rattling around in SPL stadia built for 15,000 or more. (Eventually the media will walk away and say nobody's here - why are we here?) Why? because fans don't want this. What do fans want? ask the near 12,000 that turned up for Dunfermline v Raith. The supporters are there and Hibs could fill that stadium under the right conditions but the OF/media bring us to our knees and we lose our appetite due to the fact that we are propping up the OF - and that is where Scottish football is dead. For the record I support a 16-team league if the OF "must" be in it (and i am sure they will be), however, I would actively campaign for an East of Scotland FA / League if I thought for 1 minute it would rid us of sectarian clubs and the corruption they bring while broadcasters sell this as "Scotland".

SRHibs

06-05-2011, 01:47 PM

Why not just debate the points? :dunno:

Obviously doesn't have anything worthwhile to say, so just resorts to antagonistic pish.

bawheid

06-05-2011, 01:48 PM

Obviously doesn't have anything worthwhile to say, so just resorts to antagonistic pish.

Has done it before, will do it again.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 02:06 PM

Conspiracy theory was your words. Last time out on this particular debate we established that I used the words "smokescreen".
Now the smokescreen appears to be clearing and we find an SPL chairman is suggesting he feels threatened by other members into accepting a 10-team league or his club will be ousted from the league.
The smokescreen didn't work because Doncaster and his buddies tried to railroad the 10-team league and certain others said "wait a minute - not sure about this - can we have accurate information please to back-up your proposal." It seems that was not required in the eyes of Mr. Doncaster and that everyone should just accept his plan. Behind the plan are Celtic/Rangers/Sky who have advised the other clubs if you don't back us (due to our 4 matches per year) your league ain't worth a bolt and people like Petrie/Milne run with this idea. "Hang on" on say other clubs "let's have a closer look at this." But apparently they're not allowed to have a closer look now or they will be threatened with expulsion.
At the start I said I am not here to convince you and have taken valuable time to answer your queries which now must stop as you will never believe that tic/gers /sky are manipulating this position from behind the scenes. I spoke with the journalist Jardine (think 1st name Peter) from the daily mail and immediately he advised me the media will decide on the structure of the SPL. Bad choice of direction - look around the grounds at where ther media have taken us. Stadia at Killie, Inverness, Well are barely quarter full, and continue down this route and there will hundreds rattling around in SPL stadia built for 15,000 or more. (Eventually the media will walk away and say nobody's here - why are we here?) Why? because fans don't want this. What do fans want? ask the near 12,000 that turned up for Dunfermline v Raith. The supporters are there and Hibs could fill that stadium under the right conditions but the OF/media bring us to our knees and we lose our appetite due to the fact that we are propping up the OF - and that is where Scottish football is dead. For the record I support a 16-team league if the OF "must" be in it (and i am sure they will be), however, I would actively campaign for an East of Scotland FA / League if I thought for 1 minute it would rid us of sectarian clubs and the corruption they bring while broadcasters sell this as "Scotland".

Thanks for the reply. I will continue to draw different conclusions from the same information though. :greengrin

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 02:09 PM

It depends. If we're 5 points behind the league leaders with 6 games to go I think there would be quite an interest in most games, even Partick Thistle at home.

A bigger league needs to go hand in hand with a fairer distribution of wealth in the game. This would probably be the sticking point though.

I think we are focusing too much on the finances. We need to find our level financially rather than chasing the Old Firm, who are chasing the Champions League. Celtic and Rangers obsession with grabbing as much money as they can in an attempt to challenge in Europe is not doing them any favours - they're miles off. This in turn is harming Scottish football.

An entertaining league with affordable ticket prices and a supporter-friendly TV deal is the only way to increase attendances IMO. I could do without the TV deal actually.

So we wouldn't be able to afford to pay Edwin de Graff his £4k per week? So what? We'd still be able to provide a platform for Scott Brown or Kevin Thomson or Callum Booth to make it in the game - far more entertaining, in my view.

I dont think we can assume we will be 5 point behind anyone in a title challange so we have to be realistic and say that attendances would on a middle of the season game for rangers be miles and miles and miles ahead of Partick, Raith etc.

I think ticket prices, tv deals can be seen to be irrelevant going on current crowds i.e. more people turn up to TV rangers, celtic, hearts than non tv games against any other league team.

It has been shown that we cant rely on youth, so many thought that this under 19's team was going to be the best about and would take over, the gap has been shown as far too large for so many of them. Whilst I would never want to give up on bringing in our own young players we have to be realistic we are never going to have a team of them.

Dashing Bob S

06-05-2011, 02:09 PM

First point in bold - I think even if we were having the best season we have had in the last 10 years we would not get 18,000 or thereby to a game like that.

Second point in bold - I dont think this is the case. I think we have seen that our fan basis can shrink by 50% between a pre-top six game and post. Whilst the split may disappear I dont think the fan attendance would be any different to now. If anything worse, therefore there is no way the wealth would be more evenly distrubuted - clubs like rangers, celtic and hearts will always get a better crowd than us. Given the crowd numbers and more lower revenue games I do not see how we could possibly even maintain the current wage bill, which means these clubs would end up further away from us.

May be I am looking at this too finaincially, but I guess the money is what determines everything in the game now, from playing staff right through the club. I just see no way in the world that folk will be jumping out of there bed and getting excited about a game with Raith like they would with Rangers - we would end up with far more crowds like last week, rather than the crowd against rangers at the start of the season.

The one thing I would be insisting on if the league is to change is getting shot of shugging sunday games!

I have not developed anything, but you seem to have missed the point. We are not above playing any teams, recent results have shown that. What recent/long running crowd figures have shown is that without a doubt we will get a crowd circa 100% the size of Saturdays if we are playing the likes of rangers, celtic or hearts. That is not even up for debate.

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

alexedwards

06-05-2011, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the reply. I will continue to draw different conclusions from the same information though. :greengrin

I take your lack of feedback as an absolute compliment.

marinello59

06-05-2011, 02:15 PM

I take your lack of feedback as an absolute compliment.

I think we have covered it all the previous (weekly) league reconstruction threads.
:greengrin

bawheid

06-05-2011, 02:16 PM

I dont think we can assume we will be 5 point behind anyone in a title challange so we have to be realistic and say that attendances would on a middle of the season game for rangers be miles and miles and miles ahead of Partick, Raith etc.

I think ticket prices, tv deals can be seen to be irrelevant going on current crowds i.e. more people turn up to TV rangers, celtic, hearts than non tv games against any other league team.

It has been shown that we cant rely on youth, so many thought that this under 19's team was going to be the best about and would take over, the gap has been shown as far too large for so many of them. Whilst I would never want to give up on bringing in our own young players we have to be realistic we are never going to have a team of them.

Middle of the season games against Rangers when they're already 30 points ahead is what's so boring about the SPL at the moment. The gap needs to come down somehow, and giving the OF an even larger slice of the pie is not the way to do it.

As for the part in bold, maybe if we weren't paying so much of our precious revenue on relatively poor foreign imports, our U-19 team would have got more of a chance. How were the great sides of the past built? Young players and good signings from smaller Scottish sides. All of the best Hibs sides (apart from McLeish's team) were put together on a small budget using young Scottish players.

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 02:38 PM

Middle of the season games against Rangers when they're already 30 points ahead is what's so boring about the SPL at the moment. The gap needs to come down somehow, and giving the OF an even larger slice of the pie is not the way to do it.

As for the part in bold, maybe if we weren't paying so much of our precious revenue on relatively poor foreign imports, our U-19 team would have got more of a chance. How were the great sides of the past built? Young players and good signings from smaller Scottish sides. All of the best Hibs sides (apart from McLeish's team) were put together on a small budget using young Scottish players.

The fact that there is better players in front of our younger hopefuls is irrelevant - if anything it is surely better for them. The likes of Murray, Riordan, O'Conner, Thompson, Brown and perhaps Fletcher all broke into teams that we often refer to as containing some of our most recent greats.

The reality is if these guys are not good enough to get into the team now, they never will be. It has nothing to do with the players in front of them, we cant blame them for the fact these kids, simply put, were not good enough - if they were they would still be here/playing, they are not, because they are not!

The reality is that even in your senario of rangers being 30 points ahead, more fans come to the games to watch. I appreciate that may not be to your liking, but the facts would show that the majority do not feel the same.

I dont however, understand how you think that by making the league any bigger hibs will be better, yet rangers and celtic will be worse - alas closing the gap?

I would state I totally respect your view, the above is more my view / questions on how people think it will be better or worse.

Albion Hibs

06-05-2011, 02:39 PM

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

I dont understand what you think is so funny?

bawheid

06-05-2011, 02:50 PM

The fact that there is better players in front of our younger hopefuls is irrelevant - if anything it is surely better for them. The likes of Murray, Riordan, O'Conner, Thompson, Brown and perhaps Fletcher all broke into teams that we often refer to as containing some of our most recent greats.

The reality is if these guys are not good enough to get into the team now, they never will be. It has nothing to do with the players in front of them, we cant blame them for the fact these kids, simply put, were not good enough - if they were they would still be here/playing, they are not, because they are not!

The reality is that even in your senario of rangers being 30 points ahead, more fans come to the games to watch. I appreciate that may not be to your liking, but the facts would show that the majority do not feel the same.

I dont however, understand how you think that by making the league any bigger hibs will be better, yet rangers and celtic will be worse - alas closing the gap?

I would state I totally respect your view, the above is more my view / questions on how people think it will be better or worse.

I take your point about the young players that broke through over recent years. I do think some managers are often scared to play their young prospects and instead stick with the tried and tested SPL journeymen though. Bobby Williamson was forced to play youngsters eventually, and the longterm results were astonishing. The more kids get the chance in the first team, the more will go on to make it.

I appreciate that many fans do not feel the same as me - I'm cool with that. I just want to see a competitive league. I don't particularly fancy continuing to buy season tickets to watch a competition I know we have zero chance of winning.

Re the bit of your post in bold. If we could find a way of redistributing television and ticket money throughout the league rather than the top two taking the vast majority, things might improve. It's also my view that if Hibs were to put together an excellent young side, then only having to play Rangers or Celtic twice a season would result in the gap being smaller.

Gatecrasher

06-05-2011, 02:55 PM

Why's that then?

I still don't get why Hibs fans are willing to turn their back on their own club because they don't like the size of the league.

my statement wasnt about the size of the league and more to do with the alleged threats to the non compliant clubs, which i think is waaay out of order imo

HibbyDave

06-05-2011, 03:06 PM

Imagine a ten team league where the top two positions will inevitably be the OF. Then consider that the bottom two places are likely to be relegated. How many of the mid table teams would be willing to gamble on their future by "blooding" younger players? Remember there is no reserve league thanks to the OF.
No new players introduced= boredom, boredom, boredom, lower crowds following automatically unless you are really into the cut and thrust of maintaing a safe mid table position with a healthy balance sheet etc etc etc Oh yes, a fantastic training facility too!

dangermouse

06-05-2011, 03:16 PM

I dont think we can assume we will be 5 point behind anyone in a title challange so we have to be realistic and say that attendances would on a middle of the season game for rangers be miles and miles and miles ahead of Partick, Raith etc.

I think ticket prices, tv deals can be seen to be irrelevant going on current crowds i.e. more people turn up to TV rangers, celtic, hearts than non tv games against any other league team.

It has been shown that we cant rely on youth, so many thought that this under 19's team was going to be the best about and would take over, the gap has been shown as far too large for so many of them. Whilst I would never want to give up on bringing in our own young players we have to be realistic we are never going to have a team of them.

Not always the case.

26/01/2011 V Rangers 11,696 (a Wednesday night live on Sky)
12/02/2011 V Killie 11,802 (Saturday 3 PM)

A slightly smaller crowd against Killie but around 3000 more Hibs fans than at the Rangers game.