The jokers are gone. Or are they?

[SneakersO'Toole]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?

[Hermit Crab]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?


Holiday mode already :greengrin

[Andy74]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?

Presumably the fact Hughes, who had seven good months and five or six bad months, has gone will still be the main thing for most.

CC has had one good month so we will see if things really change next year. Maybe we could even reach fourth and all this will have been worth it.

To think the likes of a 3-0 win against St Johnstone used to be used against him! I'm sure next year every game will be won convincingly and with sufficient stlye.

[blackpoolhibs]

Presumably the fact Hughes, who had seven good months and five or six bad months, has gone will still be the main thing for most.

CC has had one good month so we will see if things really change next year. Maybe we could even reach fourth and all this will have been worth it.

To think the likes of a 3-0 win against St Johnstone used to be used against him! I'm sure next year every game will be won convincingly and with sufficient stlye.

:tee hee:

[Arch Stanton]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?

When CC came here his remit was obviously to stop the rot and his approach was to shuffle players about to identify who was worth keeping and who wasn't - you did understand that's what happened don't you because there were a good few who assumed it was just rubbish management.

Now, if you believe that CC's priority is to get maximum points from the remaining games then clearly he is doing poorly. I mean to say, taking off our main threat after about 70 mins - what could that possibly be about?

On the other hand, if you believe that his priority is to get things working well next season then there is nothing to make excuses for - no?

[Dirkster23]

Presumably the fact Hughes, who had seven good months and five or six bad months, has gone will still be the main thing for most.

CC has had one good month so we will see if things really change next year. Maybe we could even reach fourth and all this will have been worth it.

To think the likes of a 3-0 win against St Johnstone used to be used against him! I'm sure next year every game will be won convincingly and with sufficient stlye.

Your right Andy, we should have kept Yogi :agree: It would have been a nice change playing teams like Raith, Dundee and Cowdenbeath.

We're a poor team at the moment, there's no doubt about that, but by your own admission the winter transfer windows a very difficult time to do business. Lets see how the team looks at the start of next season.

[matty_f]

I think I might petition the spl to see if we can finish the season now and just forfeit the points for the last games. Will save everyone a lot of bother and disappointment.

[Andy74]

Your right Andy, we should have kept Yogi :agree: It would have been a nice change playing teams like Raith, Dundee and Cowdenbeath.

We're a poor team at the moment, there's no doubt about that, but by your own admission the winter transfer windows a very difficult time to do business. Lets see how the team looks at the start of next season.
When did it look likely we might go down?

[Littlest Hobo]

Still think we are a soft touch at the back. We could do with couple of good solid experienced pros at the back. It wouldn't solve all our problems but it would certainly go a long way to amking us hard to beat again.

[paxtonhibby]

When did it look likely we might go down?

Just before we signed palsson scott and sodje maybe.

[Broken Gnome]

When did it look likely we might go down?

Andy, you can make all these Hughes references time and time again, doesn't change the fact Hibs were woeful at the tail end of his reign and he knew it. His continued absence at the club might not have ended in relegation, but it would have left us largely in limbo with the dwindling fanbase (as we have now admittedly, just far earlier) and a man who has shown zero sign of instigating a change for the better, let alone one that was rapidly alientating the vast majority of the support. Us having too high expectations etc etc. He had to go, and while Hibs are hugely disappointing right now, it was time and still is for a new man to try and change things for the better.

[IWasThere2016]

Didnae the apologist long .. WORST HOME RECORD .. EVER! :bye:

[Dirkster23]

When did it look likely we might go down?

If Yogi had stayed on as manager there's every chance we could have gone down this year IMO.

When he left, we'd won something like 4 games in our last 28. I think even you would have to concede that's relegation form.

If CC brings in his players and goes on a run like that i'd imagine the board will take the same decision.

[sahib]

When did it look likely we might go down?

If Yogi had managed to sign Sodjie instead of Trakys, or anyone half decent, or even just lucky in front of goal, then we might have had a better season.

[Speedway]

I think I might petition the spl to see if we can finish the season now and just forfeit the points for the last games. Will save everyone a lot of bother and disappointment.

Just petition to end the SPL now, Matty, for good.

[hibsbollah]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?

We shouldnt expect to automatically turn up and win every game? Rome wasnt built in a day? Both sound fair enough to me.

[rubber mal]

When CC came here his remit was obviously to stop the rot and his approach was to shuffle players about to identify who was worth keeping and who wasn't - you did understand that's what happened don't you because there were a good few who assumed it was just rubbish management.

Now, if you believe that CC's priority is to get maximum points from the remaining games then clearly he is doing poorly. I mean to say, taking off our main threat after about 70 mins - what could that possibly be about?

On the other hand, if you believe that his priority is to get things working well next season then there is nothing to make excuses for - no?

Exactly. CC kept us up, and in the process has gained a wealth of knowledge about the playing staff he inherited. That's all he was required to do in a season that was practically written off before he arrived. He should be judged from the start of next season onwards.

[down the slope]

The jokers are the one/ ones who run our club !, year after year they ask us to stump up with no improvement whatsoever . until we change small minds that run our club nothing will ever change.

[jacomo]

Holiday mode already :greengrin

The good news is that these have been fairly meaningless fixtures for us... we're safe and the planning for next season has already started.

I remain unsure about Calderwood, although maybe he really does have the right plan.

The ceaseless and contradictory nonsense pouring from Yogi's mouth, however, had convinced me that he didn't.

I think I feel more confident for next season with CC in charge, rather than JH.

[Baldy Foghorn]

The likes of Hogg, Nish and Rankin have been banished from the team for weeks yet we have just accumulated 1pt from 3 home games against supposedly the 3 worst teams in the league.

What's our excuse going to be this time?

Too many imposters and wage thiefs remain.....

[BEEJ]

Presumably the fact Hughes, who had seven good months and five or six bad months, has gone will still be the main thing for most.

CC has had one good month so we will see if things really change next year. Maybe we could even reach fourth and all this will have been worth it.

To think the likes of a 3-0 win against St Johnstone used to be used against him! I'm sure next year every game will be won convincingly and with sufficient stlye.
:greengrin Amazing that you're still banging this drum for your hero, Yogi. Which club is he managing now?

Presumably if we still had De Graaf in the squad rather than having farmed him out on loan, he would have got us rocketing back up the league table as well?

[Beefster]

When did it look likely we might go down?

Our form from February until Hughes' sacking would have relegated us in the vast majority of seasons, if rolled up to 38 games. Calderwood's form since his appointment wouldn't.

You need to get over Hughes and move on.

[Andy74]

Our form from February until Hughes' sacking would have relegated us in the vast majority of seasons, if rolled up to 38 games. Calderwood's form since his appointment wouldn't.

You need to get over Hughes and move on.
Just find it interesting the lengths that people are going to give CC leeway. Leeway that wasn't given to someone who had given us seven good months.

CC has given us one month so far. One point from last three home games is as poor as we had for some time.

Hughes got abuse for a lucky 3-0 win over that lot!

If people weren't happy then why will it be different if CC has us grinding out wins next year?

Anyway, the fans asked for change, they got it, maybe soon we can get back to the form that an alleged total idiot with terrible players had us in for seven months.

[BEEJ]

Just find it interesting the lengths that people are going to give CC leeway. Leeway that wasn't given to someone who had given us seven good months.
If you don't give new managers leeway then you're guilty of judging them based on a few months at the helm and with just one January transfer window in which to deal with the squad.

Yogi had enjoyed two summer transfer windows in his time and we were going downhill rapidly.


CC has given us one month so far. One point from last three home games is as poor as we had for some time.
Indeed. Appalling form.


Hughes got abuse for a lucky 3-0 win over that lot!
Two goals from Stokes, as I recall, secured for us an unlikely victory.

That was when Stokes was in his prime with us and not seeking a transfer along the M8.



If people weren't happy then why will it be different if CC has us grinding out wins next year?
It may not be different. Let's see if it is though.


Anyway, the fans asked for change, they got it, maybe soon we can get back to the form that an alleged total idiot with terrible players had us in for seven months.
I'm just very grateful that our transfer dealings this summer will not be left to the 'alleged' total idiot who made De Graaf and Hart our signature signings last summer.

Ultimately that was the most significant part in Yogi's undoing.

[Baldy Foghorn]

We shouldnt expect to automatically turn up and win every game? Rome wasnt built in a day? Both sound fair enough to me.

No that is true, but what we expect is every player to put a shift in, give their all, come off the park knowing they gave their all, and put in the effort for the fans who have paid good money to watch them..... These jokers get there weekly pay irrespective of the result or peformances, and too many are ready to accept mediocre performances, they don't bleed green or take pride in our famous club.................

[Hibstrooper]

Just find it interesting the lengths that people are going to give CC leeway. Leeway that wasn't given to someone who had given us seven good months.

CC has given us one month so far. One point from last three home games is as poor as we had for some time.

Hughes got abuse for a lucky 3-0 win over that lot!

If people weren't happy then why will it be different if CC has us grinding out wins next year?

Anyway, the fans asked for change, they got it, maybe soon we can get back to the form that an alleged total idiot with terrible players had us in for seven months.

So what would you have us do? Hound out another manager? Do you think that is the best thing for us to do just now?

Or perhaps the club would benefit from the fans giving a manager a bit more leeway for once, I think there is a realisation amongst the fans that the continuing revolving door of managers has to stop!

So instead of moaning about your pal Hughes getting a rough deal why not focus on giving the current manager your full backing to help turnaround our ailing club?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just find it interesting the lengths that people are going to give CC leeway. Leeway that wasn't given to someone who had given us seven good months.

CC has given us one month so far. One point from last three home games is as poor as we had for some time.

Hughes got abuse for a lucky 3-0 win over that lot!

If people weren't happy then why will it be different if CC has us grinding out wins next year?

Anyway, the fans asked for change, they got it, maybe soon we can get back to the form that an alleged total idiot with terrible players had us in for seven months.

Jeez Andy, you must be the only one he thought Yogi was doing alright.... He was totally inept and clueless.......We will be a stronger and hopefully a more resolute team to beat under CC next season. Wait until the Summer signings are in, he has already made great inroads to clear out the deadwood.....

[SneakersO'Toole]

No that is true, but what we expect is every player to put a shift in, give their all, come off the park knowing they gave their all, and put in the effort for the fans who have paid good money to watch them..... These jokers get there weekly pay irrespective of the result or peformances, and too many are ready to accept mediocre performances, they don't bleed green or take pride in our famous club.................

Spot on.

The playing squad has no leadership whatsoever. No model professional who take pride in their work so to speak.

I'm no professional sportsman but when I play 5's at the pitts, or squash or whatever - I want to win everytime. If I don't I get annoyed and frustrated.

It just seems to me that too many of our players treat losing as water off a ducks back. There is zero professional pride amongst them.

I hope CC has some culture shocks in store for next season and brings players who have a desire to win EVERYTIME. I hate to say it Hearts currently are a team that have players with character and desire. They have a never say die attitute as opposed to our "I hope we don't lose another goal". Its a young school boys mentality that we have instead of men who fight tooth and nail for each other, the manager and more importantly the club in general.

[IWasThere2016]

Jeez Andy, you must be the only one he thought Yogi was doing alright.... He was totally inept and clueless.......We will be a stronger and hopefully a more resolute team to beat under CC next season. Wait until the Summer signings are in, he has already made great inroads to clear out the deadwood.....

Don't forget O'Brien - up there with Hughes in Andy's mind :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

I feel CC deserves a close season and probably till Christmas to get get his team together and ideas across. But if we're sitting in the wrong half of this piss-poor league at the end of the year, then he very clearly isn't the man for the job.

It's easy to lay all our current problems at the door of Hughes (who got us into Europe) or, for that matter Mixu (who is doing a great job on nothing at Killie) or Collins (who won us a trophy) but Calderwood's record at ER already stands comparison with the above during their worst spells.

[Westie1875]

Just find it interesting the lengths that people are going to give CC leeway. Leeway that wasn't given to someone who had given us seven good months.

CC has given us one month so far. One point from last three home games is as poor as we had for some time.

Hughes got abuse for a lucky 3-0 win over that lot!

If people weren't happy then why will it be different if CC has us grinding out wins next year?

Anyway, the fans asked for change, they got it, maybe soon we can get back to the form that an alleged total idiot with terrible players had us in for seven months.

And what about after that? :rolleyes:

You really need to get over the fact that Yogi is gone, droning on about him and using anything CC gets wrong as justification for it looks really petty IMO.

[IWasThere2016]

I feel CC deserves a close season and probably till Christmas to get get his team together and ideas across. But if we're sitting in the wrong half of this piss-poor league at the end of the year, then he very clearly isn't the man for the job.

It's easy to lay all our current problems at the door of Hughes (who got us into Europe) or, for that matter Mixu (who is doing a great job on nothing at Killie) or Collins (who won us a trophy) but Calderwood's record at ER already stands comparison with the above during their worst spells.

Like your posts Bob - but that above is nonsense IMHO.

By that - very flawed - logic we shouldve have stuck with Blobby as he's had a few good results with Uganda!

Count the signings and respective transfer windows... and a take a moment to reconsider.

[Beefster]

I feel CC deserves a close season and probably till Christmas to get get his team together and ideas across. But if we're sitting in the wrong half of this piss-poor league at the end of the year, then he very clearly isn't the man for the job.

It's easy to lay all our current problems at the door of Hughes (who got us into Europe) or, for that matter Mixu (who is doing a great job on nothing at Killie) or Collins (who won us a trophy) but Calderwood's record at ER already stands comparison with the above during their worst spells.

Some of your points are just plain false anyway (Hughes took us on a record-breaking run of losses IIRC) but not one of those managers inherited the mess that Calderwood has so the comparisons don't make sense. I do get the sense that some folk are absolutely desperate to see Calderwood fail though.

Mixu left Kilmarnock about a month ago, by the way.

[JimBHibees]

The last few games have been disappointing however CC has shown to me enough in his signings that he has what it takes to put out a well organised team next season. His signings have to me been good and given more leeway with out of contract players leaving and bringing in more of his own players in the summer will improve the team again.

[Stevie Reid]

My season ticket for next year is already bought, and I will be as patient as I have been with every other Hibs manager in my lifetime. He has a fantastic opportunity to overhaul the squad in the summer, and I believe that there is a chance that he could have us challenging for Europe again (though maybe not next season).

However, since Calderwood was appointed in October, his record has been as follows: -

P 29 W 8 D 5 L 16

The equivalent to one point per game (though 2 of the games were Ayr Utd in the cup), and twice as many losses as wins - pretty appalling really, who would genuinely have said that they would find that an acceptable performance from October to May? His signings at first looked good and seemed to make a difference, but we had a great run of games during our best spell, which cannot be underestimated, and recent performances have suggested that the new signings may not actually take us to the next level - but I am prepared to be patient with them also.

I will wait and see with interest but there are many on here who will convince you that Yogi was the devil incarnate whilst CC is the man regardless of his woeful record. The time was right for Yogi to go, and hopefully CC will be the man, but the excuse that Hughes ruined us for Calderwood will run out this summer.

I did not see the 3-0 win at Ibrox, but in Calderwood's 8 months I have seen one genuinely good 90 minute performance, against ICT at ER on Green Day. It has been a dire, dire season, and Hughes and Calderwood are both responsible for that.

[Speedway]

My season ticket for next year is already bought, and I will be as patient as I have been with every other Hibs manager in my lifetime. He has a fantastic opportunity to overhaul the squad in the summer, and I believe that there is a chance that he could have us challenging for Europe again (though maybe not next season).

However, since Calderwood was appointed in October, his record has been as follows: -

P 29 W 8 D 5 L 16

The equivalent to one point per game (though 2 of the games were Ayr Utd in the cup), and twice as many losses as wins - pretty appalling really, who would genuinely have said that they would find that an acceptable performance from October to May? His signings at first looked good and seemed to make a difference, but we had a great run of games during our best spell, which cannot be underestimated, and recent performances have suggested that the new signings may not actually take us to the next level - but I am prepared to be patient with them also.

I will wait and see with interest but there are many on here who will convince you that Yogi was the devil incarnate whilst CC is the man regardless of his woeful record. The time was right for Yogi to go, and hopefully CC will be the man, but the excuse that Hughes ruined us for Calderwood will run out this summer.

I did not see the 3-0 win at Ibrox, but in Calderwood's 8 months I have seen one genuinely good 90 minute performance, against ICT at ER on Green Day. It has been a dire, dire season, and Hughes and Calderwood are both responsible for that.

What is CC's record since he could play players he signed?

[Stevie Reid]

What is CC's record since he could play players he signed?

It's been not too bad certainly: -

P 13 W 6 D 3 L 4

He has done well to get us from where we were, but he was culpable for us being there is the first place. There is lots I like about Calderwood, but the lack of heart in the last 2 games has been horrendous - regardless of the fact that the games are meaningless. in fact, thinking back we have lacked heart and fight in many of the defeats under CC, let's hope that we see a new attitude next season after he has had a full pre-season with his own team.

[Speedway]

It's been not too bad certainly: -

P 13 W 6 D 3 L 4

He has done well to get us from where we were, but he was culpable for us being there is the first place. There is lots I like about Calderwood, but the lack of heart in the last 2 games has been horrendous - regardless of the fact that the games are meaningless. in fact, thinking back we have lacked heart and fight in many of the defeats under CC, let's hope that we see a new attitude next season after he has had a full pre-season with his own team.

So he's currently got Mowbray's win record as things stand.

I think the last two games are write offs and CC will take action accordingly. I'll be surprised if Hart and EDG are contracted to us next season and we'll see other currently contracted regulars become contracted subs until they can be punted.

The damage was already done when CC took over and it took a long time to get anything out of this team. In fact only when CC brought players in did it change.

Naiively, I remain very hopeful for next season.

[Stevie Reid]

So he's currently got Mowbray's win record as things stand.

I think the last two games are write offs and CC will take action accordingly. I'll be surprised if Hart and EDG are contracted to us next season and we'll see other currently contracted regulars become contracted subs until they can be punted.

The damage was already done when CC took over and it took a long time to get anything out of this team. In fact only when CC brought players in did it change.

Naiively, I remain very hopeful for next season.

I remain hopeful also, despite my concerns - I've stated that in my previous posts in this thread. I will never accept that Yogi alone is responsible for this disasterous season, but do believe that Calderwood could be a very good Hibs manager.

[Speedway]

I remain hopeful also, despite my concerns - I've stated that in my previous posts in this thread. I will never accept that Yogi alone is responsible for this disasterous season, but do believe that Calderwood could be a very good Hibs manager.

There's got to come a point, if CC fails, where you question what manager is going to make a difference in the long term. McLeish, Mowbray and Collins' Hibs teams were all on the slide before they left and all three managers knew why.

[Andy74]

Some of your points are just plain false anyway (Hughes took us on a record-breaking run of losses IIRC) but not one of those managers inherited the mess that Calderwood has so the comparisons don't make sense. I do get the sense that some folk are absolutely desperate to see Calderwood fail though.

Mixu left Kilmarnock about a month ago, by the way.

Hughes took over the team from Mixu, and we were never in contention at the top end of the league during Mixu's time.

Hughes had one transfer window and took that team straight away on a great run for seven months. Forget all this stuff about being lucky or not playing well. The football was miles ahead of even our recent run of wins.

We had the best defensive record in decades up to December at least and we had Stokes as one of the top scoreres in the league and Riordan getting 15 or so from left midfield.

Of course we had a bad run from mid February. But was it really Hughes' own fault? The worst SPL pitches I can recall and a team set up to play football, Easter road was one of the worst and we had the East Stand torn down which changed the stadium atmosphere.

We also had McBride, Stack, Zemmama injured, all key players for us during the run and Bamba away with Ivory Coast and coming back a different player.

No, Hart and De Graaf didn't turn out that well, though I'd argue De Graaf was better than given credit for and could have done with some support instead of writing him off. Stokes being sold was a key issue, particulalry with Duffy then getting injured.

There's enough all there that I'm not buying the Hughes was a disaster and left Calderwood with a mess that couldn't be sorted nonsense.

Hughes was sacked as we were in danger of falling out of a European chase, that quickly turned into relegation trouble but if you believe the reasons given on here against Hughes at the time it was all down to tactics, formations, not playing Galbraith, mis-using Wotherspoon, being a bully, being to pally, talking crap etc etc and so CC should have been able to get some reaction.

He didn't at all, we got worse, we got pumped out the cup by Ayr and whe he got some players in they did well for a month before we have returned to performances worse than we had seen under most of the previous managers.

I don't want CC sacked, I think he'll do okay in due course, I just find it amusing that his very poor record since he joined, one month excepted, seems to have given people an indicatation that he is doing far better than someone who's record was execellent for seven months, after one window as well mainly.

Sorry, I'm not seeing it and the black and white approach to Hughes and his time and now CC and his time so far is pretty pathetic. I'll bet if CC's team go on a run like Hughes' team did then it will all be deserved and winning ugly will just be accepted.

I thought when Hughes was being hounded that if we did get change we'd probably end up back where we started again soon enough. So far we've had no benefit and we'll see long term, but in the meantime I don't think there is any back up to those who suggest CC is somehow the man.

I really hope he is, but I'm not enjoying anything I'm seeing right now. I'd quite like to be going mental about a 6-6 draw away from home against fellow European hopefuls at this stage.

As a support we need to stop going to extremes with people's personalities or methods and accept that even for lengthy periods people can't always get things working but that they need to be allowed to get on with long term or we will just consistently go round and round the same way.

[easty]

not playing Galbraith,



Not playing Galbraith is one of the few things on which I agree with Hughes 100%.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

There's a fine line but for me, the deciding factor is that Calderwood will appear in front of a microphone after the game and deliver a post-match summary that is far more accurate than what Yogi could ever provide.

Most of us thought Mixu was watching a different game to us most of the time, Yogi was watching a different sport taking into account his analysis of another gutless, disorganised and tepid performance.

Whilst Yogi was prowling up and down the technical area like a grizzly bear with an erection, smashing inanimate items and abusing anyone near him, Calderwood stands at the edge of the area facing the play, taking everything in and you can actually see the calm, composed state of mind he's in just by looking at him.

He's been brought into arrest what looked like a terminal slide to the Irn-Bru league and he's achieved that. His next mission is to rid this club of the malaise that has engulfed it for nigh on a decade now and actually apply the "culture" that Yogi banged on about in a correct and dignified manner without resorting to bullying or issuing dreadful soundbites whenever he sniffed a journalist.

And for the record, I was a supporter of Yogi for a long, long time until just before he was sacked. I was desperate for him to do well. When he joined us he said all the right things and just before he left us he was still saying the right things........the only difference is that in between that period, he showed absolutely nothing in terms of creating and maintaining the ethos he so often spoke of.

Calderwood, whilst having patchy results sandwiched in between a good run of form, has done more in the past few months in terms of personnel changes than the last three managers combined. The time to judge Calderwood will be around Christmas time and like every other manager before him, I hope and pray he comes good.

[Andy74]

There's a fine line but for me, the deciding factor is that Calderwood will appear in front of a microphone after the game and deliver a post-match summary that is far more accurate than what Yogi could ever provide.

Most of us thought Mixu was watching a different game to us most of the time, Yogi was watching a different sport taking into account his analysis of another gutless, disorganised and tepid performance.

Whilst Yogi was prowling up and down the technical area like a grizzly bear with an erection, smashing inanimate items and abusing anyone near him, Calderwood stands at the edge of the area facing the play, taking everything in and you can actually see the calm, composed state of mind he's in just by looking at him.

He's been brought into arrest what looked like a terminal slide to the Irn-Bru league and he's achieved that. His next mission is to rid this club of the malaise that has engulfed it for nigh on a decade now and actually apply the "culture" that Yogi banged on about in a correct and dignified manner without resorting to bullying or issuing dreadful soundbites whenever he sniffed a journalist.

And for the record, I was a supporter of Yogi for a long, long time until just before he was sacked. I was desperate for him to do well. When he joined us he said all the right things and just before he left us he was still saying the right things........the only difference is that in between that period, he showed absolutely nothing in terms of creating and maintaining the ethos he so often spoke of.

Calderwood, whilst having patchy results sandwiched in between a good run of form, has done more in the past few months in terms of personnel changes than the last three managers combined. The time to judge Calderwood will be around Christmas time and like every other manager before him, I hope and pray he comes good.

I get what you are saying on those things but I think the slant given to them depnds on what's happening at the time and what people want to take from it.

Some of the stuff hughes was criticised for was getting a bit daft and it's that sort of extrme here that just puzzles me to be honest.

For example CC was talking after the game at the weekend about how we should have been able to hold on for a point and that we would have deserved it.

If that was Hughes he would more than likely have been slated for talking about trying to get a point at home to St Johnstone and the fact we were leading until just a few minutes from time when we collapsed.

There will come a time when CC's demeanour is turned around to be uninspiring, dispassionate and part of the problem and his analysis is just a dour stating of the obvious.

[Stevie Reid]

There's got to come a point, if CC fails, where you question what manager is going to make a difference in the long term. McLeish, Mowbray and Collins' Hibs teams were all on the slide before they left and all three managers knew why.

What has stunned me about every manager since Mowbray is the level of vitriol that has been levelled at each of them - sure they had their flaws and I wasn't sad when any of them left, but given that Collins, Hughes and Paatelainen had all been great servants to Hibs, the shear abuse that they got and in Hughes' case is still receiving, was pretty disgusting. Ok, you may not rate someone but there's absolutely no need for much of what has been said on here much of the time.

JC was the most bizarre, with him, being one of the top 3 players I've seen at Hibs in my lifetime, and the rarest of all things - a trophy winning Hibs manager. We won a national cup final 5-1 in front of 40,000 Hibs fans against a team that finished above us in the SPL - yet a few months later there were fans who barely had a good word to say about him, some even worse than that.

Paatelainen's brand of football with us was awful, but again the level of abuse to a guy who had legendary status in many people's eyes was depressing. Now, 8 months after his departure, Yogi is still a figure of abuse on here for much of the time, despite being "one of our own".

The appetite amongst a lot of the support (on this board) to rip our managers to shreds is unbelievable, and as Andy says, it's surely only a matter of time before every single personality trait of CC's is attacked and pulled apart.

I have raised concerns about Calderwood, but he still has my full backing and patience is required over the next few months.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I get what you are saying on those things but I think the slant given to them depnds on what's happening at the time and what people want to take from it.

Some of the stuff hughes was criticised for was getting a bit daft and it's that sort of extrme here that just puzzles me to be honest.

For example CC was talking after the game at the weekend about how we should have been able to hold on for a point and that we would have deserved it.

If that was Hughes he would more than likely have been slated for talking about trying to get a point at home to St Johnstone and the fact we were leading until just a few minutes from time when we collapsed.

There will come a time when CC's demeanour is turned around to be uninspiring, dispassionate and part of the problem and his analysis is just a dour stating of the obvious.

Agreed, but on this site it'll be hard to find someone with an objectionable point of view I suppose.

I agree that Hughes was being slated for incidents that were outwith his control however I feel the events and occurrences which he was culpable for made him more of a target for such criticism.

Calderwood of course is not without criticism himself, I think he has made a few errors but so far he's in credit at the moment when you weigh up his goods to his bads so to speak.

This season is a write-off, it pretty much has been since September. It's what Calderwood does in the pre-season and the first half of next season which he should, in my opinion, be judged on.

If at Xmas we're sitting where Yogi had us sitting at that time then I suspect Calderwood will be getting blamed and hung out to dry like Yogi was, including for things that are outwith his control.