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View Full Version : Hibs Under 13's.. AC Milan ..0..Hibernian..1 ..FT/Italian Tournament Updates



Tam
21-04-2011, 11:31 AM
Just an update, Hibs under 13's are playing in the prestigious Milan tornanent with there first game kicking off today at lunch time. Final score was AC Milan 0 Hibernian 1.

sleeping giant
21-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Outstanding:thumbsup:


Great result for them. One they will remember forever:thumbsup:

MSK
21-04-2011, 11:38 AM
Just an update, Hibs under 13's are playing in the prestigious Milan tornanent with there first game kicking off today at lunch time. Final score was AC Milan 0 Hibernian 1.What a result !! thanks for the update Tam ..:thumbsup:

sleeping giant
21-04-2011, 11:39 AM
Who scored ?

Any team news ?

What the weather like in Milan :greengrin

easty
21-04-2011, 11:40 AM
Who scored ?

Any team news ?

What the weather like in Milan :greengrin

Lewis Stevenson scored, the wee man can still pass for a 12 year old.

Sean1875
21-04-2011, 11:41 AM
brilliant news! the futures bright! :not worth

sleeping giant
21-04-2011, 11:44 AM
Hibs have previous in this tourny.

We won it a couple of years ago .

Nae pressure lads :greengrin

sleeping giant
21-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Still trying to find the scorer. Lets get his name on a thread title:greengrin
Great stuff. They all must be chuffed to bits.

Great wee feel good story :thumbsup:

Phil MaGlass
21-04-2011, 11:50 AM
Mibbe change the words from barcelona, Real Madrid song and try to fit AC.Milan somewhere:greengrin

HibbyAndy
21-04-2011, 11:53 AM
Outstanding result :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Tam
21-04-2011, 11:55 AM
No this is a different tornament from previous years.
Hibs have previous in this tourny.

We won it a couple of years ago .

Nae pressure lads :greengrin

Tam
21-04-2011, 12:00 PM
Goalscorer Anthony O'Kane with Hibs goalkeeper Quinn saving a penalty. Next game this afternoon v Cremonesse at 4pm

MSK
21-04-2011, 12:12 PM
Goalscorer Anthony O'Kane with Hibs goalkeeper Quinn saving a penalty. Next game this afternoon v Cremonesse at 4pmMon the wee cabbage's ...:thumbsup: :flag:

Sodje_18
21-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Outstanding result :thumbsup:
Wishing them all the best for the rest of the tournament :flag:

ChilliEater
21-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Mon the wee cabbage's ...:thumbsup: :flag:

The Sprouts? :greengrin

ItalianHibee
21-04-2011, 12:31 PM
well done kids!

hibee92
21-04-2011, 12:33 PM
great news :thumbsup: get them in the first team :greengrin

Seanair
21-04-2011, 12:58 PM
We seem to be able to compete with bigger countries at these early ages, but then the Andy Roxburgh/SFA coaching methods kick in and we're c**p at senior level!:grr:

easty
21-04-2011, 01:03 PM
We seem to be able to compete with bigger countries at these early ages, but then the Andy Roxburgh/SFA coaching methods kick in and we're c**p at senior level!:grr:

It would be really interesting to find out why this happens.

I do get the impression, with a lot of young players who make it into SPL sides, that they think they've now 'made it' as footballers. Maybe young Scottish lads need to try a lot harder between, say, 17 and 21 to become as good as they can. Rather than be content to be part of an SPL first team, come in to training early, stay late, get as fit as possible, try to be as good a footballer as you possibly can, don't just be as good as you need to be to play in SPL.

Though I have been known to talk a lot of baws....what do I know!

Leishy1995
21-04-2011, 01:53 PM
Good result, go on the mini hibees

Barney McGrew
21-04-2011, 03:29 PM
Next game this afternoon v Cremonesse at 4pm

I've just heard it was Cremonese 1 Hibs 0 FT.

The goal was apparently a mile offside and the Hibs team played well enough to get a draw.

That might be duff info though :greengrin

Hank Schrader
21-04-2011, 03:38 PM
Is this not the tournament the Hibs laddies won a few years back and that pr*ck Levien bumped his gums because it knocked Hearts off the back page of the Evening News. Apparantly the fact the plums had opened their (rented) football academy was a bigger story and he made his views public on that matter.

Good luck to the U13's, doing the club proud.

Barney McGrew
21-04-2011, 03:40 PM
Is this not the tournament the Hibs laddies won a few years back and that pr*ck Levien bumped his gums because it knocked Hearts off the back page of the Evening News

I believe that it's a more prestigious competition they've been invited to this time because of our showings in previous tournaments at that level.

Either way, it's good news :thumbsup:

Next game tomorrow is now a must win, against Padova Calcio at 10am.

Hibby Bairn
21-04-2011, 03:52 PM
We seem to be able to compete with bigger countries at these early ages, but then the Andy Roxburgh/SFA coaching methods kick in and we're c**p at senior level!:grr:


It would be really interesting to find out why this happens.

:agree: Been like this for years. Something not right in the later teen years and indeed into early 20's.

moredun
21-04-2011, 06:21 PM
It would be really interesting to find out why this happens.

I do get the impression, with a lot of young players who make it into SPL sides, that they think they've now 'made it' as footballers. Maybe young Scottish lads need to try a lot harder between, say, 17 and 21 to become as good as they can. Rather than be content to be part of an SPL first team, come in to training early, stay late, get as fit as possible, try to be as good a footballer as you possibly can, don't just be as good as you need to be to play in SPL.

Though I have been known to talk a lot of baws....what do I know!


I agree, and the next step, or sorry maybe it should be the first step, get out of Scotland

truehibernian
21-04-2011, 06:57 PM
:agree: Been like this for years. Something not right in the later teen years and indeed into early 20's.

From personal experience I would say that it is the "fault" of clubs like Hutchison Vale, Salveson, Tynecastle etc over the years.

Yes, admittedly, they are top juvenile clubs to play for and the chance of being scouted is far greater. However the coaching is very much based on the physical aspect of the game IMHO and not the basic skill levels and working with the football. The emphasis is also far too heavy on "win, win, win".........a defeat for clubs like that is treated in the same manner as a defeat for a pro club.

It's all very well encouraging a winning mentality and a real hunger to win football matches. But the wee medals from Emslie's really mean nothing for me......it's what a player can do with the ball, the way he can dribble, trap, control and turn. His height and physique should not matter if he has the correct way of treating the football. In any case, if you make the ball do the work, a bigger, slower, more physical player shouldn't get near you.

Yes you need your solid, physical players in a side. But for me, Scottish football in particular, doesn't spend half as much time with the actual football as other countries, nor does it encourage skill. Watch and listen to a Scottish coach if a wee trick or a touch in an U15's game doesn't come off.........its met with criticism rather than encouragement for having the courage to try.

Coaching needs to change completely in our game. There are loads of Wotherspoon's, Murphy's, Templeton's and Goodwillie's out there, however a mixture of poor coaching, poor scouting, nepotism, bad education on and off the field and bad associations/peer groups mean we are letting hundreds slip through the net IMHO. Far too many folk out there far too interested in getting their wee medals and trophies engraved and treating the juvenile leagues as the "careers" they never had themselves.

I remember years ago playing in tournaments in both Germany and Holland. We did incredibly well against teams that were very skilful, yet a lot weaker physically. We had good, good players ourselves (some still in the pro game now......just :greengrin).....but we competed in the Scottish way, tearing into tackles and getting "in about them". What struck me at the time was the conduct of the coaches and parents......they encourage skill and a defeat was more of a "hard lines son" approach than "what the **** are you playing at" type approach that our coaches had with us. Their players were also very good on the ball, just hadn't grown into their bodies as quickly as we had. That is just physiology and maturity at the end of the day........doesn't (or shouldn't) affect natural talent with a football......for me that never leaves you. The other factor was facilities. At that time the synthetic pitches had just come in and were all over both Holland and Germany......for everyone to use in the community. We are only seeing them appear now if we are being brutally honest......Spartans being an excellent, but way too late, example.

Just my opinion of course.

Speedway
21-04-2011, 07:32 PM
If we'd put our first team out against AC Milans under 13s, I wouldn't have been confident of a 0-1 away win.

Haymaker
21-04-2011, 07:40 PM
Just my opinion of course.

And a good one. I work in youth football and the attitude of "top" small clubs is terrible across the whole UK.

The whole system needs a shake up.

half.time.draw.
21-04-2011, 07:50 PM
From personal experience I would say that it is the "fault" of clubs like Hutchison Vale, Salveson, Tynecastle etc over the years.

Yes, admittedly, they are top juvenile clubs to play for and the chance of being scouted is far greater. However the coaching is very much based on the physical aspect of the game IMHO and not the basic skill levels and working with the football. The emphasis is also far too heavy on "win, win, win".........a defeat for clubs like that is treated in the same manner as a defeat for a pro club.

It's all very well encouraging a winning mentality and a real hunger to win football matches. But the wee medals from Emslie's really mean nothing for me......it's what a player can do with the ball, the way he can dribble, trap, control and turn. His height and physique should not matter if he has the correct way of treating the football. In any case, if you make the ball do the work, a bigger, slower, more physical player shouldn't get near you.

Yes you need your solid, physical players in a side. But for me, Scottish football in particular, doesn't spend half as much time with the actual football as other countries, nor does it encourage skill. Watch and listen to a Scottish coach if a wee trick or a touch in an U15's game doesn't come off.........its met with criticism rather than encouragement for having the courage to try.

Coaching needs to change completely in our game. There are loads of Wotherspoon's, Murphy's, Templeton's and Goodwillie's out there, however a mixture of poor coaching, poor scouting, nepotism, bad education on and off the field and bad associations/peer groups mean we are letting hundreds slip through the net IMHO. Far too many folk out there far too interested in getting their wee medals and trophies engraved and treating the juvenile leagues as the "careers" they never had themselves.

I remember years ago playing in tournaments in both Germany and Holland. We did incredibly well against teams that were very skilful, yet a lot weaker physically. We had good, good players ourselves (some still in the pro game now......just :greengrin).....but we competed in the Scottish way, tearing into tackles and getting "in about them". What struck me at the time was the conduct of the coaches and parents......they encourage skill and a defeat was more of a "hard lines son" approach than "what the **** are you playing at" type approach that our coaches had with us. Their players were also very good on the ball, just hadn't grown into their bodies as quickly as we had. That is just physiology and maturity at the end of the day........doesn't (or shouldn't) affect natural talent with a football......for me that never leaves you. The other factor was facilities. At that time the synthetic pitches had just come in and were all over both Holland and Germany......for everyone to use in the community. We are only seeing them appear now if we are being brutally honest......Spartans being an excellent, but way too late, example.

Just my opinion of course.


Glad it's only your opinion, what about the players that have came from these clubs, I watch my boy at tynecastle every week and it's not about winning all the time it's about being winners.

truehibernian
21-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Glad it's only your opinion, what about the players that have came from these clubs, I watch my boy at tynecastle every week and it's not about winning all the time it's about being winners.

And I hope your lad does really well and if he gets scouted and it's what you want for him, fantastic.

Yes, there are countless examples of good players from the clubs.....Derek, Garry, KT etc in recent times. However I played at that level for a long time and trust me, there were better players who slipped through the net for a variety of reasons, some down to size......didn't matter that they were the most skilful. They sat on the subs bench because a "coach" saw it that he didn't play.......IMHO every player should get time on the pitch at youth level, under the age of 17......it's that simple.

I was also lucky enough to play in tournaments that included Rangers and Celtic and saw players such as John Spencer close up.......a terrific player and one of the only players out his side that progressed. He had skill in abundance and it was natural. Yet he was the smallest and slightest in the side.

I am also going on my experiences of playing at that level abroad mate and the coaching is way different and for the better, again, only my opinion.

I do wish your boy all the best......should have gone to Hutchie though :wink::greengrin

half.time.draw.
21-04-2011, 08:08 PM
He has been at hearts rangers celtic and I just pulled him out of pro youth contract at the pars, believe me tynecastle is a better option, he is only eleven.

truehibernian
21-04-2011, 08:24 PM
He has been at hearts rangers celtic and I just pulled him out of pro youth contract at the pars, believe me tynecastle is a better option, he is only eleven.

Good to hear mate. As long as he enjoys his football and has his old man looking out for him that's the best he can get. Sadly there are not as many dad's out there that take a keen interest as you have rightly done.......some are determined to have their boys sign for a pro club thinking it is the be all and end all.

My point was really that in Scotland there is a plethora of coaches at youth level who seem intent on playing out careers they never had themselves.....trying to be a "super coach" when really their main aim is to progress young Scottish talent, regardless of winning as many trophies as they can.

I witnessed great players at Hutchie sit on the sidelines for half a season because the coach's son was in the side, or a certain player was training with Hearts so "he must be good"......you have to be (as you will know) very careful how you handle young players. The enthusiasm goes if they turn up for training on a Wednesday night in the pouring rain, do their best, yet never get a game on a Saturday/Sunday. Then they drift out the game which is a travesty. Especially if they have all the natural talent yet are deemed "too small".......ask Gordon Strachan......he very nearly never made it due to a coach thinking that about him. You need a wee bit luck yes, but you also need great coaching and encouragement rather than criticism.

I was talking to a guy who is doing a little bit of scouting for Oldham on behalf of Paul Dickov. He has seen a few really good young players and when asking them to go down and visit Oldham he is always met with "nah mate....Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs are in for him".........no one wants to take a wee chance and see what they have to offer.

Sincerely hope your boy does well though bud.......what position is he and does he have pace :greengrin Hibs could do with that at present.

We visited a German pro club when we were

truehibernian
21-04-2011, 08:28 PM
was about to also say we visited a German pro club and one of their training sessions for kids was as simple as "keepy uppies" but adding elements of skill and control......also "football tennis" and improvised games involving the football. Here it is about physique, running, press ups and bleep tests from an early age. That surely comes later in a young person's training ??

son of haggart
21-04-2011, 08:47 PM
was about to also say we visited a German pro club and one of their training sessions for kids was as simple as "keepy uppies" but adding elements of skill and control......also "football tennis" and improvised games involving the football. Here it is about physique, running, press ups and bleep tests from an early age. That surely comes later in a young person's training ??

My younger brother's 10 year old plays for a german side - fantastic skills. My older brother's (also 11 years old and at Tynie) seems to play more games but less ball skills training so I would back that observation. parental expectations seem to be differentover here too.

R'Albin
22-04-2011, 05:46 AM
Glad it's only your opinion, what about the players that have came from these clubs, I watch my boy at tynecastle every week and it's not about winning all the time it's about being winners.

Played against Tynecastle 15s this season in the sc, they humped us 7-0:greengrin

Barney McGrew
22-04-2011, 10:02 AM
Hibs team drew their game with Padova 0-0 this morning meaning they finished third.

It will have been a great experience for them all though no doubt :thumbsup:

Barney McGrew
22-04-2011, 03:28 PM
They've dropped into the consolation cup side of the competition now and have beaten a South African team, Olympia FC, 4-0 in the semi :thumbsup:

Still a chance of a cup :greengrin

PaulSmith
22-04-2011, 03:45 PM
I was talking to a guy who is doing a little bit of scouting for Oldham on behalf of Paul Dickov. He has seen a few really good young players and when asking them to go down and visit Oldham he is always met with "nah mate....Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs are in for him".........no one wants to take a wee chance and see what they have to offer.

Disagree there and without going into too much detail it's now becoming almost impossible for Hibs to lure the better players from Hutchie and Tynie as they prefer to see the kids go down south as they are well compensated (so I'm led to believe.)

There are 2 or 3 outstanding players at present at 13's level, one in particular that is head and shoulders above anything that I have seen in a good few years, and the clubs are actively telling the kids parents that they should go down to the likes of Ipswich rather than Hibs or Hearts.

Sad day when we have two of the top youth clubs in the UK who fail to promote their own players to clubs in their own city IMO.

half.time.draw.
22-04-2011, 04:22 PM
Good to hear mate. As long as he enjoys his football and has his old man looking out for him that's the best he can get. Sadly there are not as many dad's out there that take a keen interest as you have rightly done.......some are determined to have their boys sign for a pro club thinking it is the be all and end all.

My point was really that in Scotland there is a plethora of coaches at youth level who seem intent on playing out careers they never had themselves.....trying to be a "super coach" when really their main aim is to progress young Scottish talent, regardless of winning as many trophies as they can.

I witnessed great players at Hutchie sit on the sidelines for half a season because the coach's son was in the side, or a certain player was training with Hearts so "he must be good"......you have to be (as you will know) very careful how you handle young players. The enthusiasm goes if they turn up for training on a Wednesday night in the pouring rain, do their best, yet never get a game on a Saturday/Sunday. Then they drift out the game which is a travesty. Especially if they have all the natural talent yet are deemed "too small".......ask Gordon Strachan......he very nearly never made it due to a coach thinking that about him. You need a wee bit luck yes, but you also need great coaching and encouragement rather than criticism.

I was talking to a guy who is doing a little bit of scouting for Oldham on behalf of Paul Dickov. He has seen a few really good young players and when asking them to go down and visit Oldham he is always met with "nah mate....Rangers/Celtic/Hearts/Hibs are in for him".........no one wants to take a wee chance and see what they have to offer.

Sincerely hope your boy does well though bud.......what position is he and does he have pace :greengrin Hibs could do with that at present.

We visited a German pro club when we were

He was stuck at left back, as no one els could play there (at the pars) 3 left footed players out of a squad of 20 joke.
Then we move back to tynie, and he is playing left mid and CH, he is a big lad and is now being used as he should have been.

Thanks for your interest:agree:

I think parents should not be allowed in a hundred miles of their own kids teams, it puts pressure on them.

You seem to know your stuff all the best.

matty_f
22-04-2011, 04:26 PM
Boy's' football clubs have the mentality all wrong. I coach a 2003 team, and our policy is that if the boys come to training, then they'll get a game on saturday.
We played a team recently and lost because we had to keep changing the shape to give everyone a run out. At the end, the opposition coach said that they don't bother trying to play everyone, they just want the win..

Teams don't even get points at this level ffs!

half.time.draw.
22-04-2011, 04:32 PM
Boy's' football clubs have the mentality all wrong. I coach a 2003 team, and our policy is that if the boys come to training, then they'll get a game on saturday.
We played a team recently and lost because we had to keep changing the shape to give everyone a run out. At the end, the opposition coach said that they don't bother trying to play everyone, they just want the win..

Teams don't even get points at this level ffs!

To be fair, if a team at that age is in the PELE league, they should not have players in that league who are not good enough, the should be in the Maradonna or Beckham, but a lot of clubs are guilty of taking the monthly direct debate as long as they get cash through they dont care about the kids.

Haymaker
22-04-2011, 05:06 PM
I think parents should not be allowed in a hundred miles of their own kids teams, it puts pressure on them.



:top marks I coach youth football and the parents are the biggest problem. When I took over a team a few years back some parents were always raging at me for not playing their son yet they never turned up for training. The worst parents are the ones who take their children to training, make sure they are early, hang around to watch, shout from the sidelines yet their son or daughter obviously has no interest in playing football.

It maybe that the child is disinterested in football because of the parents over enthusiastic approach but I have had one child tell me they just were not interested in playing football but their dad was forcing him to training and to games. Was quite sad.

It must also be said that some coaches are to blame. While I would say I am a progressive and forward thinking coach in terms of youth development some of the coaches above me are absolute *******s and they wonder why the kids arent enthusiastic for their sessions yet turn up in droves for mine, even bringing other kids along from other clubs!

truehibernian
22-04-2011, 05:44 PM
One of the classic nepotism cases involving Hibernian was Alex Miller signing and playing both his son's Graeme and Greg.

I knew both and have to say an absolute credit to their dad the way they turned out both as men and academically. Lovely guys and had a real soft spot for Hibs. But neither were particularly good footballers. Greg was the better of the two, but if anyone tells me he was better than the rest (in juvenile terms) they clearly don't watch a lot of football. Graeme sadly was just never a pro footballer in a million years.......but again, who was he keeping out of football because of nepotism ? Countless examples of managers giving their son's pro contracts and to be frank, they are simply not good enough and it's unfair. Darren Ferguson, Blair Sturrock, Gavin Strachan........list is endless. So if it can happen at that level of football it's bound to happen at the lower reaches too. When I played there was a son of a very famous ex Hearts and Everton striker who got signed by Hearts.......he was okay, but never ever a top striker and it was so obvious to everyone he wouldn't make it. But that means that a good, better, young player is potentially lost or drifts away. What made it f****** worse was that one of the only goals he ever scored was against Hibs at Easter Road as well, not for Hearts I may add :boo hoo:

PaulSmith
22-04-2011, 05:58 PM
One of the classic nepotism cases involving Hibernian was Alex Miller signing and playing both his son's Graeme and Greg.

I knew both and have to say an absolute credit to their dad the way they turned out both as men and academically. Lovely guys and had a real soft spot for Hibs. But neither were particularly good footballers. Greg was the better of the two, but if anyone tells me he was better than the rest (in juvenile terms) they clearly don't watch a lot of football. Graeme sadly was just never a pro footballer in a million years.......but again, who was he keeping out of football because of nepotism ? Countless examples of managers giving their son's pro contracts and to be frank, they are simply not good enough and it's unfair. Darren Ferguson, Blair Sturrock, Gavin Strachan........list is endless. So if it can happen at that level of football it's bound to happen at the lower reaches too. When I played there was a son of a very famous ex Hearts and Everton striker who got signed by Hearts.......he was okay, but never ever a top striker and it was so obvious to everyone he wouldn't make it. But that means that a good, better, young player is potentially lost or drifts away. What made it f****** worse was that one of the only goals he ever scored was against Hibs at Easter Road as well, not for Hearts I may add :boo hoo:

THE Stranraer game....?

truehibernian
22-04-2011, 06:14 PM
THE Stranraer game....?


Indeed :agree:

fatbloke
22-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Just to say my 9year old took part in the Green Shoots thing at EM this week. Kids were dropped off at 10.45 each day and parents etc were banned from hanging around. By all accounts kids had a great time.

gogsy
22-04-2011, 10:18 PM
Mon the wee cabbage's ...:thumbsup: :flag:

The Sprouts?

whiskyhibby
23-04-2011, 11:14 AM
The Sprouts?


:faf::faf:

aberhibsfc
23-04-2011, 11:17 AM
Hibs have previous in this tourny.

We won it a couple of years ago .

Nae pressure lads :greengrin

Yeah, I'm sure it involve Juventus, or was it Inter.

I am sure the player of the tournament was a young Hibby.

aberhibsfc
23-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Boy's' football clubs have the mentality all wrong. I coach a 2003 team, and our policy is that if the boys come to training, then they'll get a game on saturday.
We played a team recently and lost because we had to keep changing the shape to give everyone a run out. At the end, the opposition coach said that they don't bother trying to play everyone, they just want the win..

Teams don't even get points at this level ffs!

I appreciate anyones desire to win, even kids but at that level it's not about the winning, it's about the learning. And no, I'm not some Political do-gooder whom agreed with banning competitive sports at schools.

Thankfully not everyone shares the winning is everything at youth level, take Ajax for example, they bring in talented young players whom the play regularly in various positions over a number of years. They don't cut players regularly because they all develop at different times. Some will develop quickly at start then fade and some will be poor first few years then come on. They decide approx 5 - 6 years after they have joined the club. If it was not for this approach Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars would never have attained professional status. If they had been anywhere else they would have been discarded within their 1st few seasons. They had talent but bloomed towards the end of their time in the Ajax youths.

Not everyone can afford to follow this philosophy, but it does demonstrate that winning at kids level, is not everything.

half.time.draw.
23-04-2011, 12:08 PM
I appreciate anyones desire to win, even kids but at that level it's not about the winning, it's about the learning. And no, I'm not some Political do-gooder whom agreed with banning competitive sports at schools.

Thankfully not everyone shares the winning is everything at youth level, take Ajax for example, they bring in talented young players whom the play regularly in various positions over a number of years. They don't cut players regularly because they all develop at different times. Some will develop quickly at start then fade and some will be poor first few years then come on. They decide approx 5 - 6 years after they have joined the club. If it was not for this approach Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars would never have attained professional status. If they had been anywhere else they would have been discarded within their 1st few seasons. They had talent but bloomed towards the end of their time in the Ajax youths.

Not everyone can afford to follow this philosophy, but it does demonstrate that winning at kids level, is not everything.


Yep spot on, but they do need to develope a winning mentality, so they enjoy the football and stick at it, before the birds n booze kick in.:agree:

ScottB
23-04-2011, 12:37 PM
I appreciate anyones desire to win, even kids but at that level it's not about the winning, it's about the learning. And no, I'm not some Political do-gooder whom agreed with banning competitive sports at schools.

Thankfully not everyone shares the winning is everything at youth level, take Ajax for example, they bring in talented young players whom the play regularly in various positions over a number of years. They don't cut players regularly because they all develop at different times. Some will develop quickly at start then fade and some will be poor first few years then come on. They decide approx 5 - 6 years after they have joined the club. If it was not for this approach Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars would never have attained professional status. If they had been anywhere else they would have been discarded within their 1st few seasons. They had talent but bloomed towards the end of their time in the Ajax youths.

Not everyone can afford to follow this philosophy, but it does demonstrate that winning at kids level, is not everything.

Indeed.

Look at the way Spain have done it, and how France produced their World Cup winning sides, it's no mystery how to do it, folk just need to accept change here. Which of course will never happen and we'll be continued to be stuck with generations of big, physical, unskilled players who are more interested in getting boozed up than being athletes.

Tam
23-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Well done the young Hibees on picking up the fair play award Not forgetting that famous result. AC Milan 0 - Hibernian 1.

matty_f
23-04-2011, 10:20 PM
I appreciate anyones desire to win, even kids but at that level it's not about the winning, it's about the learning. And no, I'm not some Political do-gooder whom agreed with banning competitive sports at schools.

Thankfully not everyone shares the winning is everything at youth level, take Ajax for example, they bring in talented young players whom the play regularly in various positions over a number of years. They don't cut players regularly because they all develop at different times. Some will develop quickly at start then fade and some will be poor first few years then come on. They decide approx 5 - 6 years after they have joined the club. If it was not for this approach Dennis Bergkamp and Marc Overmars would never have attained professional status. If they had been anywhere else they would have been discarded within their 1st few seasons. They had talent but bloomed towards the end of their time in the Ajax youths.

Not everyone can afford to follow this philosophy, but it does demonstrate that winning at kids level, is not everything.

Totally agree.:agree:

McKenzie
23-04-2011, 10:55 PM
From personal experience I would say that it is the "fault" of clubs like Hutchison Vale, Salveson, Tynecastle etc over the years.

Yes, admittedly, they are top juvenile clubs to play for and the chance of being scouted is far greater. However the coaching is very much based on the physical aspect of the game IMHO and not the basic skill levels and working with the football. The emphasis is also far too heavy on "win, win, win".........a defeat for clubs like that is treated in the same manner as a defeat for a pro club.

It's all very well encouraging a winning mentality and a real hunger to win football matches. But the wee medals from Emslie's really mean nothing for me......it's what a player can do with the ball, the way he can dribble, trap, control and turn. His height and physique should not matter if he has the correct way of treating the football. In any case, if you make the ball do the work, a bigger, slower, more physical player shouldn't get near you.

Yes you need your solid, physical players in a side. But for me, Scottish football in particular, doesn't spend half as much time with the actual football as other countries, nor does it encourage skill. Watch and listen to a Scottish coach if a wee trick or a touch in an U15's game doesn't come off.........its met with criticism rather than encouragement for having the courage to try.

Coaching needs to change completely in our game. There are loads of Wotherspoon's, Murphy's, Templeton's and Goodwillie's out there, however a mixture of poor coaching, poor scouting, nepotism, bad education on and off the field and bad associations/peer groups mean we are letting hundreds slip through the net IMHO. Far too many folk out there far too interested in getting their wee medals and trophies engraved and treating the juvenile leagues as the "careers" they never had themselves.

I remember years ago playing in tournaments in both Germany and Holland. We did incredibly well against teams that were very skilful, yet a lot weaker physically. We had good, good players ourselves (some still in the pro game now......just :greengrin).....but we competed in the Scottish way, tearing into tackles and getting "in about them". What struck me at the time was the conduct of the coaches and parents......they encourage skill and a defeat was more of a "hard lines son" approach than "what the **** are you playing at" type approach that our coaches had with us. Their players were also very good on the ball, just hadn't grown into their bodies as quickly as we had. That is just physiology and maturity at the end of the day........doesn't (or shouldn't) affect natural talent with a football......for me that never leaves you. The other factor was facilities. At that time the synthetic pitches had just come in and were all over both Holland and Germany......for everyone to use in the community. We are only seeing them appear now if we are being brutally honest......Spartans being an excellent, but way too late, example.

Just my opinion of course.
spot on :top marks far too many players left kicking their heels on the bench, just because they might get 10 minutes in a cup final

Andy Bee
23-04-2011, 10:59 PM
Boy's' football clubs have the mentality all wrong. I coach a 2003 team, and our policy is that if the boys come to training, then they'll get a game on saturday.
We played a team recently and lost because we had to keep changing the shape to give everyone a run out. At the end, the opposition coach said that they don't bother trying to play everyone, they just want the win..

Teams don't even get points at this level ffs!



Sadly if you stick 7 kids on a field against an opposing 7 then it's all out war there's no way of changing that. The format needs changed, kids know enough about the game via Sky etc that if you score more than the opposition you win and that's what they want regardless of league points. Take the competitivness out the game completely

I've watched a few games recently that if a team scores they're not allowed to again until the opposing team evens it up, that way there's no winners but both teams learn as much about defence as attack and more importantly no kids confidence needs be affected.

Finally the issue about parents getting peeved about their son/daughter not getting a game, no kid should be sidelined for the full match, what's the point of having kids waiting on the sideline when they want to play, it's plain stupid, if you have to then you've too many in the team.

Finally, finally, coaches need to learn that some parents want their kids to play simply for the fact it teaches teamwork,respect, discipline and not to mention keeping them off the streets/playing consoles, it's not about trying to raise the next Messi. Scottish youth football isn't all about bringing the next World Cup home, it's far more important than that.

matty_f
24-04-2011, 12:19 AM
Sadly if you stick 7 kids on a field against an opposing 7 then it's all out war there's no way of changing that. The format needs changed, kids know enough about the game via Sky etc that if you score more than the opposition you win and that's what they want regardless of league points. Take the competitivness out the game completely

I've watched a few games recently that if a team scores they're not allowed to again until the opposing team evens it up, that way there's no winners but both teams learn as much about defence as attack and more importantly no kids confidence needs be affected.

Finally the issue about parents getting peeved about their son/daughter not getting a game, no kid should be sidelined for the full match, what's the point of having kids waiting on the sideline when they want to play, it's plain stupid, if you have to then you've too many in the team.

Finally, finally, coaches need to learn that some parents want their kids to play simply for the fact it teaches teamwork,respect, discipline and not to mention keeping them off the streets/playing consoles, it's not about trying to raise the next Messi. Scottish youth football isn't all about bringing the next World Cup home, it's far more important than that.

Agree with that, too.:agree:

We play so that if a team goes three in front, the losing team can chuck another player on.

I really like the philosophy of my team, in that it's just about fun for the boys and we genuinely make a point of giving all the kids a game.

half.time.draw.
24-04-2011, 08:46 AM
Agree with that, too.:agree:

We play so that if a team goes three in front, the losing team can chuck another player on.

I really like the philosophy of my team, in that it's just about fun for the boys and we genuinely make a point of giving all the kids a game.


You are talking about fun, not developing talent, thats why ESSDA have 4 levels of league, so that players can develop along side players at similar levels, then move up or down if they struggle.
It is about development, however I think the coaches in scotland are way out of their depth, too many parents involved with SFA knowledge of the game, an example is a Bonnyrigg Rose coach telling his team "if they get the ball kick it up the park WTF"

The way forward is to raise the standard of coaching qualifications/knowledge before they are allowed to teach young kids absolute bollocks.

DaveF
24-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Finally, finally, coaches need to learn that some parents want their kids to play simply for the fact it teaches teamwork,respect, discipline and not to mention keeping them off the streets/playing consoles, it's not about trying to raise the next Messi. Scottish youth football isn't all about bringing the next World Cup home, it's far more important than that.

Totally agree, but it is a difficult situation. I'm a coach of a team (in my last year now thankfully) but I'm just an ordinary Dad with nothing more than a simple certificate and a willingness to help which marks me out as 'the coach'.

The difficulty I allude to, is that all through my (extremely average!) footballing days, I was a winner and I hated losing. I do control myself at games, but that underlying will to win is always there and I fight that monster every week when I take the team, as I want the boys to enjoy to it, but I also want them to do well.

Personally, I don't like the current 'league' setups we have. Teams as early as U10 are introduced to the competition element by having Pele, Maradona, Beckham leagues with the best teams in the 'top' leagues and a drop in ability as you go down the leagues.

I'd rather we didn't hide behind this non competitive rubbish (as it's very competitive) and have the good teams with the good players in the current setup of leagues and then had some genuine fun, non competitive groups of teams with kids of low or average ability having a run out (with plenty of game time) and enjoying the game.

Of course I do realise that there are teams out there who run their teams without any winning pressure - though to be honest I've not seen too many of these. It does, largely seem to be all about the winning (and I'm just as guilty as anyone else I guess) and I wonder just how many boys \ girls miss out on the real enjoyment football can bring when played without any worry about the final score.

DaveF
24-04-2011, 09:11 AM
You are talking about fun, not developing talent, thats why ESSDA have 4 levels of league, so that players can develop along side players at similar levels, then move up or down if they struggle.
It is about development, however I think the coaches in scotland are way out of their depth, too many parents involved with SFA knowledge of the game, an example is a Bonnyrigg Rose coach telling his team "if they get the ball kick it up the park WTF"

The way forward is to raise the standard of coaching qualifications/knowledge before they are allowed to teach young kids absolute bollocks.

I resemble that remark and agree totally :greengrin

However, in my defence no one else stepped forward to take the original bunch of kids and I'm pretty much convinced that the 4 teams running in this area now would not be going.

matty_f
24-04-2011, 09:36 AM
You are talking about fun, not developing talent, thats why ESSDA have 4 levels of league, so that players can develop along side players at similar levels, then move up or down if they struggle.
It is about development, however I think the coaches in scotland are way out of their depth, too many parents involved with SFA knowledge of the game, an example is a Bonnyrigg Rose coach telling his team "if they get the ball kick it up the park WTF"

The way forward is to raise the standard of coaching qualifications/knowledge before they are allowed to teach young kids absolute bollocks.

The developing talent comes with the fun, though - they're not mutually exclusive. You give the kids an environment where they can learn without pressure. The kids have a natural desire to win and be competitive, the coaches don't need to drill that into them. What we work on is their technique, skills, ability etc, while giving them the confidence to try things knowing that if it doesn't work out they're not getting bollocked for it.

sleeping giant
24-04-2011, 11:36 AM
We have a good set up in Broxburn.

Anyone who joins will get a game.
We have 4 teams at 2000's age group. There are 2 teams who are fairly equal in skill a third team where players have came up to the top two teams and a forth team for players who still need that wee bit development.

Its all about getting match time for Broxburn. No player will be turned away.

I have seen players who were pretty hurt when they were dropped down to the third team only to come straight back up within 6 weeks looking like a completely different player.

For me , its all about keeping my boy occupied and off the Xbox.
I do not see him as my pension fund like some other parents:greengrin

We've seen a few players leave us to go pro youth with Dunfermline and East Fife.

I loved every minute watching them all develop into confident players.
Some were tripping over the ball when they first joined , some were painfully shy. Its great to see them now.

My boy does not score that many but when he does , the look of sheer joy on his face leaves me with a lump in my throat.

bob12345
24-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Our wee review of the tournament...

http://youthfootballscotland.co.uk/clubs/south-east-region-clubs/south-east-region-news/1429-hibernian-fc-news/2293-young-hibees-defeat-ac-milan-their-own-back-yard

half.time.draw.
24-04-2011, 06:53 PM
We have a good set up in Broxburn.

Anyone who joins will get a game.
We have 4 teams at 2000's age group. There are 2 teams who are fairly equal in skill a third team where players have came up to the top two teams and a forth team for players who still need that wee bit development.

Its all about getting match time for Broxburn. No player will be turned away.

I have seen players who were pretty hurt when they were dropped down to the third team only to come straight back up within 6 weeks looking like a completely different player.

For me , its all about keeping my boy occupied and off the Xbox.
I do not see him as my pension fund like some other parents:greengrin

We've seen a few players leave us to go pro youth with Dunfermline and East Fife.

I loved every minute watching them all develop into confident players.
Some were tripping over the ball when they first joined , some were painfully shy. Its great to see them now.

My boy does not score that many but when he does , the look of sheer joy on his face leaves me with a lump in my throat.


My boy PARS 2000 played against Broxburn 1999 a few months ago and Gubbed a team a year older than them, remember the PARS are an embaresment to youth development.
No disrespect mate, but through experience, keep away from that pile o *****.
As for game time, thats is not going to help players who are out of there depth, at lower league levels you can try and develope players who may have a talent, but anyone who thinks youth football is about giving crap players game time in a developing team is wrong, thats why we are, where we are.
Oh by the way my son scored against Hearts and it was like him winning the world cup, (for me) but he asked to leave to go back to tynecastle as he was sick of getting pumped every week.
He is 11 but played from 6, i have seen enough of kids non competitive football to know I am not far off the money.

Cheers all the best

DaveF
24-04-2011, 07:40 PM
We have a good set up in Broxburn

Yep, it's amazing what a million quid development can do for a club, eh :greengrin


Its all about getting match time for Broxburn. No player will be turned away.

Good to hear it, but Brox are also not shy at attempting to pinch players from other clubs - even at 7s level. I've had 1st hand experience of this.

bob12345
24-04-2011, 10:10 PM
As for game time, thats is not going to help players who are out of there depth, at lower league levels you can try and develope players who may have a talent,

Completely disagree, especially for nine year olds (as it appears your team is).

Players need to be put in an environment where they can learn from their own mistakes and coaches give them the freedom to play - but put in place a proper season plan to cover all skills & techniques progressively.

If somebody is out of their depth they shouldn't be in that team. Problems can arise when players want to play with their friends, I completely get that. But as a coach it's responsible to hook that player up with a more appropriate level side (ideally you have a setup like the one mentioned at Broxburn, with different teams within the club at the given age group). Hopefully they'll get the confidence boost they need and work their way back up.

At the end of the day, if you can marry the kids enjoying themselves, working hard and taking in coaching points, they'll develop as a player.

sleeping giant
24-04-2011, 10:32 PM
Yep, it's amazing what a million quid development can do for a club, eh :greengrin



Good to hear it, but Brox are also not shy at attempting to pinch players from other clubs - even at 7s level. I've had 1st hand experience of this.

I'm surprised that they have been trying to pinch players.
I only know the coaches who work with the 2000's though and they don't seem to work like that.
What age group are you talking about ?

sleeping giant
24-04-2011, 10:35 PM
My boy PARS 2000 played against Broxburn 1999 a few months ago and Gubbed a team a year older than them, remember the PARS are an embaresment to youth development.
No disrespect mate, but through experience, keep away from that pile o *****.
As for game time, thats is not going to help players who are out of there depth, at lower league levels you can try and develope players who may have a talent, but anyone who thinks youth football is about giving crap players game time in a developing team is wrong, thats why we are, where we are.
Oh by the way my son scored against Hearts and it was like him winning the world cup, (for me) but he asked to leave to go back to tynecastle as he was sick of getting pumped every week.
He is 11 but played from 6, i have seen enough of kids non competitive football to know I am not far off the money.

Cheers all the best

We played Dunfermlines 2000's (2 teams) about 18 months ago and drew 5-5 and lost 5-4 then they pinched our 2 best players.

half.time.draw.
25-04-2011, 05:55 AM
We played Dunfermlines 2000's (2 teams) about 18 months ago and drew 5-5 and lost 5-4 then they pinched our 2 best players.

There are only about 6 good players out of 20 there, very poor team.:agree: