Jambos in same situation as rangers re tax

[The Gorf]

Interesting read and sorry about the length. Didn't look as good summarised.

THIS WAS FOUND ON RANGERSTAXCASE.COM

Campbell Ogilvie (http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/04/14/campbell-ogilvie/)

14/04/2011 by rangerstaxcase (http://rangerstaxcase.com/author/rangerstaxcase/) Leave a Comment (http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/04/14/campbell-ogilvie/#respond)

Campbell Ogilvie is a man of quite some distinction. His list of accomplishments might be about to become a bit longer. It appears that he has sat on the board of directors of not just one SPL club entangled in highly dubious tax schemes, but two. Heart of Midlothian FC look likely to be the next shoe to drop as football’s culture of thinking that it is above paying taxes starts to unwind.
Ogilvie, the current SFA Vice-President and heir apparent to George Peat’s job of President, is going to have quite the CV by the time he hangs up his pinstripes. Not only was he a director of Rangers FC when the EBT scam was first introduced, but he was also the company secretary. This latter role gave him additional responsibility for ensuring statutory compliance for The Rangers Football Club plc. So while some Rangers directors, like John Greig, might have a claim that their position was symbolic, and they did not understand what was happening or what their responsibilities as a director are, it will be difficult for Mr. Ogilvie to do likewise. As a man with substantial experience and training in the legal responsibilities of directors, he will find it difficult to claim that he did not know or understand what was happening. (He may try anyway).
However, Ogilvie seems likely to find himself in the unique position of being at the center of yet another tax avoidance/evasion storm. On leaving Rangers, Ogilvie joined the board of Heart of Midlothian FC, and in 2008 became managing director of the Edinburgh club. An unimpeachable source tells me that the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (SPFA) has made a complaint about employment practices at Hearts. I am told that at least one foreign player at Hearts had not been registered for UK tax and did not have even have a national insurance number. (The player appears to have innocently divulged this information when interfacing with an official body). The SPFA would obviously have concerns that Scottish players will appear expensive in an era of 50% marginal tax rates compared to low-tax (or no-tax?) foreign players. The scale of the Hearts problem is not yet fully known. If this has been standard practice over an extended number of years, then the bills, interest, and penalties could also be of a magnitude that could put the existence of Hearts at risk unless Mr. Romanov decides to dig deep into his personal reserves.
Once could be just a mistake. Twice looks very careless.
Scottish football supporters, as well as SFA member clubs, have a right to know “what did Campbell Ogilvie know, and when did he know it?”
It appears that one of two situations must exist: either Campbell Ogilvie knew of, and approved of, two high-risk / illegal tax strategies or he has failed in his responsibilities as a company director at two major Scottish football clubs. Does Mr. Ogilvie have a casual disregard for the law or is he just an ignorant puppet dancing on the strings of charismatic impresarios? Either way, it would be a matter of major concern to all those with an interest in Scottish football if either is true. If there is another explanation for why he has had such a knack of being on the wrong boards at the wrong times, then Scottish football supporters need to be told.
Did Ogilvie bring dubious practices to Hearts from Rangers or was he an innocent bystander at both clubs?
Did Rangers register all of their overseas players for UK tax?
In light of his unique experience with two of the three largest football clubs in Scotland sliding to the edge of darkness, perhaps Celtic supporters should not be so concerned about Ogilvie inheriting the job of SFA President. Given recent statements about the need to ‘pull down the walls’ and to rebuild the SFA from the ground up, who would be better qualified to at least bring about the first part?


Filed under General (http://en.wordpress.com/tag/general/)

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think that might have been written by a Celtic supporter. As we all know, their club is a bastion of morality and fair play.

[MacBean]

From what i have read this guy has not been wrong with things in the past.

:bye:Jambos

[Heraghty's]

This is the key bit:

An unimpeachable source tells me that the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (SPFA) has made a complaint about employment practices at Hearts. I am told that at least one foreign player at Hearts had not been registered for UK tax and did not have even have a national insurance number. (The player appears to have innocently divulged this information when interfacing with an official body).
The SPFA would obviously have concerns that Scottish players will appear expensive in an era of 50% marginal tax rates compared to low-tax (or no-tax?) foreign players.
The scale of the Hearts problem is not yet fully known.
If this has been standard practice over an extended number of years, then the bills, interest, and penalties could also be of a magnitude that could put the existence of Hearts at risk unless Mr. Romanov decides to dig deep into his personal reserves.
:greengrin

[Mikey]

I've been saying for some time that Campbell Ogilvie had a hand in both of these issues. And he's right at the top of the tree in Scottish Football.

Rangers are the test case. There are several who will follow if they lose it.

[AllyT]

I personally know someone with a Lithuianian passport, who worked for Hearts for 3 years and was never registered for UK Tax and National Insurance. He is no longer employed and cannot claim UK benefits because he wasn't registered!

[MacBean]

I personally know someone with a Lithuianian passport, who worked for Hearts for 3 years and was never registered for UK Tax and National Insurance. He is no longer employed and cannot claim UK benefits because he wasn't registered!

Only long(ish) serving Liths I can think of that are no longer there are Mikolounaus and Cesnaukis??

[cabbageandribs1875]

Only long(ish) serving Liths I can think of that are no longer there are Mikolounaus and Cesnaukis??

i dont think he means a player

[AllyT]

No, not a player, backroom staff

[PaulSmith]

I've been saying for some time that Campbell Ogilvie had a hand in both of these issues. And he's right at the top of the tree in Scottish Football.

Rangers are the test case. There are several who will follow if they lose it.

Indeed you have Mikey and I do also believe that the self procliamed ' best football administrator in Europe' is really up to his eyes in it.

[Mikey]

I personally know someone with a Lithuianian passport, who worked for Hearts for 3 years and was never registered for UK Tax and National Insurance. He is no longer employed and cannot claim UK benefits because he wasn't registered!

Shouldn't you be helping the Revenue with their enquiries? :greengrin



Indeed you have Mikey and I do also believe that the self procliamed ' best football administrator in Europe' is really up to his eyes in it.

At least it'll give them a scapegoat when the Revenue does hit them with a tax bill. It's always someone else's fault dontcha know :wink:

[Jack]

There's been various rumours of potential hearts signing being put off at the last minute, or when they found out their wages would be paid into an overseas bank account – cant think of which bank it was now or country :faf:

[greenlex]

Indeed you have Mikey and I do also believe that the self procliamed ' best football administrator in Europe' is really up to his knees in it.

Fixed that for you Paul. :greengrin

[ozzie]

someone told me it was on keeckback that rp hadnt paid hibs tax bill and we were to be the next pulled up over it. anybody here think rp would be that stupid?

[MrSmith]

someone told me it was on keeckback that rp hadnt paid hibs tax bill and we were to be the next pulled up over it. anybody here think rp would be that stupid?

Nope!

[marinello59]

someone told me it was on keeckback that rp hadnt paid hibs tax bill and we were to be the next pulled up over it. anybody here think rp would be that stupid?

If you had read it on Kickback yourself I would have been really really really worried.

[steakbake]

Fixed that for you Paul. :greengrin

:top marks

[Jack]

someone told me it was on keeckback that rp hadnt paid hibs tax bill and we were to be the next pulled up over it. anybody here think rp would be that stupid?

He’s probably negotiated a deal where they pay us :greengrin

[AllyT]

[QUOTE=Mikey;2779859]Shouldn't you be helping the Revenue with their enquiries? :greengrin

I would be delighted to if they asked :wink:

[JT Fae The Toon]

This is the key bit:

An unimpeachable source tells me that the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (SPFA) has made a complaint about employment practices at Hearts. I am told that at least one foreign player at Hearts had not been registered for UK tax and did not have even have a national insurance number. (The player appears to have innocently divulged this information when interfacing with an official body).
The SPFA would obviously have concerns that Scottish players will appear expensive in an era of 50% marginal tax rates compared to low-tax (or no-tax?) foreign players.
The scale of the Hearts problem is not yet fully known.
If this has been standard practice over an extended number of years, then the bills, interest, and penalties could also be of a magnitude that could put the existence of Hearts at risk unless Mr. Romanov decides to dig deep into his personal reserves.
:greengrin

This is what's on that site now, can you spot the difference? Looks like his "source" is no longer unimpeachable.

A source has contacted me with the story the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (SPFA) has made a complaint about employment practices at Hearts. This came to light when a Hearts player applied for a mortgage. When presenting his salary advice, it was clear that he was on a rate close to the UK minimum wage. The player naively explained that he had lots of money, but that it was all paid overseas. The SPFA would obviously have concerns that Scottish players will appear expensive in an era of 50% marginal tax rates compared to low-tax (or no-tax?) foreign players. This raises a few questions: How many players are involved? How long have such practices been in effect? Are there players who have not been registered for tax at all in the UK? The scale of the Hearts problem is not yet fully known. If this has been standard practice over an extended number of years, then the bills, interest, and penalties could also be of a magnitude that could put the existence of Hearts at risk unless Mr. Romanov decides to dig deep into his personal reserves.

[ozzie]

If you had read it on Kickback yourself I would have been really really really worried.

strangly enough i haven't registered for it . i rely on the believers in my work to keep me informed ;-)

[hibs0666]

This is what's on that site now, can you spot the difference? Looks like his "source" is no longer unimpeachable.

A source has contacted me with the story the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (SPFA) has made a complaint about employment practices at Hearts. This came to light when a Hearts player applied for a mortgage. When presenting his salary advice, it was clear that he was on a rate close to the UK minimum wage. The player naively explained that he had lots of money, but that it was all paid overseas. The SPFA would obviously have concerns that Scottish players will appear expensive in an era of 50% marginal tax rates compared to low-tax (or no-tax?) foreign players. This raises a few questions: How many players are involved? How long have such practices been in effect? Are there players who have not been registered for tax at all in the UK? The scale of the Hearts problem is not yet fully known. If this has been standard practice over an extended number of years, then the bills, interest, and penalties could also be of a magnitude that could put the existence of Hearts at risk unless Mr. Romanov decides to dig deep into his personal reserves.

The response...

The source remains unimpeachable.

The source did contact me to clarify some wording I had used as not fully representing what he had said. Nothing more sinister than that.

You know deep down the deep deep trouble your club is in.

[Hank Schrader]

The response...

The source remains unimpeachable.

The source did contact me to clarify some wording I had used as not fully representing what he had said. Nothing more sinister than that.

You know deep down the deep deep trouble your club is in.

IF HMRC win the case against Rangers and are due tens of millions in tax from them then Hearts, if found guilty of the same offence, could be liable for many millions too.

My guess is that any payments made to players in offshore accounts will be treated as "net" and then grossed up for PAYE, employee NI and employers NI. With Hearts inflated wage bills since 2005 this could amount to an enormous amount of money adding more millions to their already huge debt.

It's all ifs though just now, need to wait until Rangers case is heard.

[SloopJB]

Ithought the question of avoidance or evasion was what had to be answered? this article puts the two together.

[JT Fae The Toon]

The response...

The source remains unimpeachable.

The source did contact me to clarify some wording I had used as not fully representing what he had said. Nothing more sinister than that.

You know deep down the deep deep trouble your club is in.

You hope! :greengrin

Having read the blog and all of the comments, this looks more like a personal attack against Campbell Ogilvie by a paranoid Celtic fan who doesn't want another "Rangers Man" at a position of power at the SFA.

This is my favourite comment:

Paulsatim says:
14/04/2011 at 12:26 pm
And from a man with two surnames, whoulda thunk it

I believe his initials are actually R C Ogilvie. For obvious reasons he declines to use these on any correspondence. I know this has nothing to do with the tax case or this blog but it’s interesting that a man who is so paranoid about his initials might become the President of the SFA – now what road could that lead us down in the future.
Boab says:
14/04/2011 at 9:03 pm

As an aside, with apologies to the blogger.

The head of the civil service is called Gus O’Donnell. He signs his memos GOD.

True Story

[ballengeich]

My guess is that any payments made to players in offshore accounts will be treated as "net" and then grossed up for PAYE, employee NI and employers NI. With Hearts inflated wage bills since 2005 this could amount to an enormous amount of money adding more millions to their already huge debt.


Potentially it's finally something they can't say they owe to themselves.

[Kato]

Rangers tribunal re-commences next month.

[bighairyfaeleith]

You hope! :greengrin

Having read the blog and all of the comments, this looks more like a personal attack against Campbell Ogilvie by a paranoid Celtic fan who doesn't want another "Rangers Man" at a position of power at the SFA.

This is my favourite comment:

Paulsatim says:
14/04/2011 at 12:26 pm
And from a man with two surnames, whoulda thunk it

I believe his initials are actually R C Ogilvie. For obvious reasons he declines to use these on any correspondence. I know this has nothing to do with the tax case or this blog but it’s interesting that a man who is so paranoid about his initials might become the President of the SFA – now what road could that lead us down in the future.
Boab says:
14/04/2011 at 9:03 pm

As an aside, with apologies to the blogger.

The head of the civil service is called Gus O’Donnell. He signs his memos GOD.

True Story



I see your accounts are late again:wink:

[GloryGlory]

IF HMRC win the case against Rangers and are due tens of millions in tax from them then Hearts, if found guilty of the same offence, could be liable for many millions too.

My guess is that any payments made to players in offshore accounts will be treated as "net" and then grossed up for PAYE, employee NI and employers NI. With Hearts inflated wage bills since 2005 this could amount to an enormous amount of money adding more millions to their already huge debt.

It's all ifs though just now, need to wait until Rangers case is heard.

Particularly when you add on late payment penalties and interest! :greengrin

[AllyT]

You hope! :greengrin

Having read the blog and all of the comments, this looks more like a personal attack against Campbell Ogilvie by a paranoid Celtic fan who doesn't want another "Rangers Man" at a position of power at the SFA.

This is my favourite comment:

Paulsatim says:
14/04/2011 at 12:26 pm
And from a man with two surnames, whoulda thunk it

I believe his initials are actually R C Ogilvie. For obvious reasons he declines to use these on any correspondence. I know this has nothing to do with the tax case or this blog but it’s interesting that a man who is so paranoid about his initials might become the President of the SFA – now what road could that lead us down in the future.
Boab says:
14/04/2011 at 9:03 pm

As an aside, with apologies to the blogger.

The head of the civil service is called Gus O’Donnell. He signs his memos GOD.

True Story



What I said earlier about them not paying Tax or National Insurance for the guy I know is absolutely 100% true..

[hibs0666]

You hope! :greengrin


I expect. :na na:

Your club is one step from liquidation. If HMRC were to have a go, or were vlad to take the huff, then you're gubbed. No two ways about it, and you know it.

[Hank Schrader]

Potentially it's finally something they can't say they owe to themselves.

:greengrin

The "we only owe money to ourselves" line is nothing more than ignorant bullsh*t by Hearts fans who know hee haw about their financial situation.

Interestingly, if Hearts/Vlad etc DID owe the money to themselves, then why did they recently secure the entire grounds and stadium at Tynecastle against the current and future debts due to UBIG? Surely there wouldnt be any need for such an agreement if the money was just going from one pocket into the other?

:wink:

[greenginger]

:greengrin

The "we only owe money to ourselves" line is nothing more than ignorant bullsh*t by Hearts fans who know hee haw about their financial situation.

Interestingly, if Hearts/Vlad etc DID owe the money to themselves, then why did they recently secure the entire grounds and stadium at Tynecastle against the current and future debts due to UBIG? Surely there wouldnt be any need for such an agreement if the money was just going from one pocket into the other?

:wink:

I love the conditions of the floating charge brought on Hearts and their assets by UBIG
" ___________ _ _ _ _ and so that interest shall be computed and compounded according the usual rates and practice of the Lender _ _ etc.

Can't pay ? first its cut off your fingers , then leg, then we sell your children.

Then we start to get serious.:greengrin

[Kato]

Interestingly, if Hearts/Vlad etc DID owe the money to themselves, then why did they recently secure the entire grounds and stadium at Tynecastle against the current and future debts due to UBIG?

All big clubs do that silly. We wouldn't know about such things as we are caravan dwelling, peg-selling, sc......etc etc.

[Hank Schrader]

I love the conditions of the floating charge brought on Hearts and their assets by UBIG
" ___________ _ _ _ _ and so that interest shall be computed and compounded according the usual rates and practice of the Lender _ _ etc.

Can't pay ? first its cut off your fingers , then leg, then we sell your children.

Then we start to get serious.:greengrin

The most recent charge has changed it from a "floating charge" to a "standard security". And the document goes into great detail as to what is being secured, with ironic mentions of sections of the stadium area plans highlighted in pink :greengrin

I thought all of it was pink :confused::wink: