League Re-Construction Postponed

[woodythehibee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12970538.stm

[R'Albin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12970538.stm

Or how about changing the voting system so that there is an actually chance of something being changed?

[greenlex]

With a bit of luck a 14 team league will win the day.

[PaulSmith]

Not read the link does that mean all the protesters will now stop their boycott of buying season tickets?

[Golden Bear]

I hope we all realise that the SPL proposal is not wrong - they simply need more time to educate the non-believers and those wretched cynics.

:rolleyes:

[PaulSmith]

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=10146

maybe deserves a thread of its own

[Saorsa]

proposing the creation of a league that puts fans first :hilarious

[Gatecrasher]

:hilarious

the guy is an utter fanny :agree:

[PaulSmith]

the guy is an utter fanny :agree:

Interested to hear reasons why, seriously he has proposed massive and much needed changes to Scottish football and is probably getting pissed off at the clubs themselves refusing to make any change to the current predicament that the SPL find themselves in.

Do I hear the "get all the games at 3pm Saturday cry"..yeah like the attendances at Easter Road for the majority of these game are fantastic eh?

It's people, exactly like yourself, who moan when change is mooted and moan like hell about the status quo that has held the game back for decades.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Interested to hear reasons why, seriously he has proposed massive and much needed changes to Scottish football and is probably getting pissed off at the clubs themselves refusing to make any change to the current predicament that the SPL find themselves in.

Do I hear the "get all the games at 3pm Saturday cry"..yeah like the attendances at Easter Road for the majority of these game are fantastic eh?

It's people, exactly like yourself, who moan when change is mooted and moan like hell about the status quo that has held the game back for decades.

Alright then, why not implement all of the main proposals except changing the size of the league? As far as I can see they are all sensible ideas, but it is the SPL board that is insisting that it is an all-or-nothing package. I don't understand why the other proposals (SPL-SFL merger, colt teams, additional playoff place, non-SPL member on the board) are contingent on reducing the top tier to 10 teams.

[DH1875]

Quite right. The sooner they realize a 10 team league is a joke the better. Like I've said before, bring in Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk and Raith and you got your 16 team league. It's no brain surgery.

[ancient hibee]

Quite right. The sooner they realize a 10 team league is a joke the better. Like I've said before, bring in Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk and Raith and you got your 16 team league. It's no brain surgery.
Might it be-fewer home games and smaller gates aganst Dunfermline,Dundee,Falkirk and Raith than Hearts and the OF.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why not vote on each proposal individually??


The creation a pyramid structure in Scottish football YES
Permitted, one-off, short-term opt-outs from the SPL's stadia criteria YES
A merging of the SPL with the SFL by inviting all 30 SLF member clubs to join a 42-club league under one umbrella banner YES but have they forgotten there was a single structure before the SPL got gready
The creation of a 10-team SPL league, with a 12-team Championship and two lower divisions NO, not any better than 12 (IMHO)
The creation of an extra relegation place in the SPL through play-offs between the top two divisions YES
A redistribution of money away from the top two positions in the league and reallocating it to the other eight clubs YES DEFINATELY
An obligation on all Premier League and Championship clubs to become part of the SFA Youth Initiative YES the future
An earlier start to the season and a return of the winter shutdown Undecided

[Gatecrasher]

Interested to hear reasons why, seriously he has proposed massive and much needed changes to Scottish football and is probably getting pissed off at the clubs themselves refusing to make any change to the current predicament that the SPL find themselves in.

Do I hear the "get all the games at 3pm Saturday cry"..yeah like the attendances at Easter Road for the majority of these game are fantastic eh?

It's people, exactly like yourself, who moan when change is mooted and moan like hell about the status quo that has held the game back for decades.

no he hasn't proposed massive change at all, for the SPL he is proposing a tried and failed short term fix.

i personally would prefer a 16 to a 10 team league, but having attended the fans forum at ER with hibs i can see the thinking behind it and see where the clubs are coming from. That being said i think its very short sighted and will probably make the scottish league less productive. Ok in the short term the finances might not be viable but in the long term i think it will benefit the game more to see more clubs in the SPL.


It looks like a if we cant push it through just now we'll try again in a few months scenario going on - who ever is stopping it from going through, well done :aok:

[BoltonHibee]

Did I just hear Doncaster say that they polled Scottish Football fans and only 2% wanted to stay with the current SPL format?

Have they polled fans on a 10 team league set up?

[Saorsa]

Did I just hear Doncaster say that they polled Scottish Football fans and only 2% wanted to stay with the current SPL format?

Have they polled fans on a 10 team league set up?They did do a poll with all the choices of 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 and the last I saw of it it was heading in much the same way as all the others as far as the 10 team set up was concerned, odd that we've never seen the final result (and never will, at least the real one) of that poll. He may have said that only 2% want tae stay with they current set up, he's no telt us how many telt them where tae ram the 10 team set up.

[BoltonHibee]

They did do a poll with all the choices of 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 and the last I saw of it it was heading in much the same way as all the others as far as the 10 team set up was concerned, odd that we've never seen the final result (and never will, at least the real one) of that poll. He may have said that only 2% want tae stay with they current set up, he's no telt us how many telt them where tae ram the 10 team set up.

Thanks for that DD.

I guess the reason we haven't seen the results of the poll is that the results don't follow in line with the set up Doncaster and some of the other SPL clubs want.

[Purple & Green]

Scrap the under 21 rule and allow the possibility of relegating two teams from 10. Hibs would be stark raving bonkers to vote for this, both in self interest and for the betterment of Scottish football generally.

[Saorsa]

Thanks for that DD.

I guess the reason we haven't seen the results of the poll is that the results don't follow in line with the set up Doncaster and some of the other SPL clubs want.:agree:

That'll be exactly it IMO, that'll probably be the only bit of (true) data we'll likely see from that poll because that's all that suits them, my guess would be that it was a similar % that voted for the 10 team set up and an overwhelming majority in favour of the larger leagues of 14, 16 or 18

[Keith_M]

OK, I can't find any link on the SPL site other than 'enquiries@scotprem.com', so I've just sent an E-Mail to them at that address:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
I have been following with interest the ongoing debate on league reconstuction. I have just read Mr Doncaster's 'Blog' on the importance of change in Scottish Football. In his Blog, Mr Doncaster mentions that a survey was done of 15,000 fans on their view of what they would like the league sizes to be. As only one statistic was quoted, that only 2% are in favour of the status quo, it would be helpful if the full results of the survey were released, so that the public are kept fully informed of the actual views given. The reason I consider this important is that, surely, without the customer there would be no SPL. With that in mind, could I please request a copy of the full results of the survey, detailing what numbers and/or percentages were in favour of each of the options.


Thank You and Best Regards,

[My Name],

SPL Customer."

[down the slope]

I think you will find he is being "economical with the truth" , this guy is a joke and you have to wonder what his motives are for trying to force things through. If you receive any feedback from him could you share it on here but i would not hold my breath on that one.

[dangermouse]

I see from the premier league site that 6 colt teams may be introduced increasing the number of teams from 42 to 48 so why not 4 leagues of 12 but get rid of the split nonsense.

2 automatically relegated from premier league, championship and league one with the champions of the championship, league one and league two being promoted with the next four in play off's for other promotion spot.

Another thing, why use the English league names, can we not be more inventive. :brickwall

[Saorsa]

OK, I can't find any link on the SPL site other than 'enquiries@scotprem.com', so I've just sent an E-Mail to them at that address:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
I have been following with interest the ongoing debate on league reconstuction. I have just read Mr Doncaster's 'Blog' on the importance of change in Scottish Football. In his Blog, Mr Doncaster mentions that a survey was done of 15,000 fans on their view of what they would like the league sizes to be. As only one statistic was quoted, that only 2% are in favour of the status quo, it would be helpful if the full results of the survey were released, so that the public are kept fully informed of the actual views given. The reason I consider this important is that, surely, without the customer there would be no SPL. With that in mind, could I please request a copy of the full results of the survey, detailing what numbers and/or percentages were in favour of each of the options.


Thank You and Best Regards,

[My Name],

SPL Customer."Good luck with getting the truth. Don't you think that if the result had gone the way they wanted it that they wouldnae now have been crowing about it considering it was done some time ago. The 2% is the only figure mentioned IMO because it's probably the only one that remotely suits their position, i.e. a move away from the current set up but I'd bet the result wisnae in favour of the way they were wanting tae move.

[Keith_M]

I think you will find he is being "economical with the truth" , this guy is a joke and you have to wonder what his motives are for trying to force things through. If you receive any feedback from him could you share it on here but i would not hold my breath on that one.


Will do.

If I don't hear anything, the next request is going to the club. I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally am fed up being taken for granted and being the least important part of any of their decisions.

[Saorsa]

Will do.

If I don't hear anything, the next request is going to the club. I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally am fed up being taken for granted and being the least important part of any of their decisions.but don't you know they are


proposing the creation of a league that puts fans first :hilarious

[carlos70]

Did I just hear Doncaster say that they polled Scottish Football fans and only 2% wanted to stay with the current SPL format?

Have they polled fans on a 10 team league set up?

87% against the 10 team league was the figure mentioned by Richard Gordon on Radio Scotland at half time during the Huns game yesterday, while chuckling over the 2% stat that Mr Doncaster felt was more relevant.

[ancient hibee]

I see from the premier league site that 6 colt teams may be introduced increasing the number of teams from 42 to 48 so why not 4 leagues of 12 but get rid of the split nonsense.

2 automatically relegated from premier league, championship and league one with the champions of the championship, league one and league two being promoted with the next four in play off's for other promotion spot.

Another thing, why use the English league names, can we not be more inventive. :brickwall
So do you want 22 games or 44 games in the SPL?

[H18sry]

The creation of a Strategic Plan for Scottish football has been long in the making. A process that started in early 2010 has resulted in a draft plan that will be tabled at the next general meeting of all 12 SPL clubs, on 18th April. So will that meeting see a plan approved by all 12 clubs? Or will the process of creating a coherent plan for the whole of Scottish professional football take a little longer to come to fruition?

This blog attempts to set out where we are with the process of pulling together a Strategic Plan to take the game forward.

The issues
Much of the debate in the Press and on the message boards has centred on the league structure. But this is just one aspect of the draft plan. Building on the work of the SFA and Henry McLeish, the plan has five key aims:

• Supporters: to create an exciting, dynamic league that delivers entertaining football for fans
• Performance: to address the declining UEFA and FIFA coefficients
• Player development: to ensure a more effective production line of players for the Scotland national team and to address the ‘development gap’ between the under19s and the first team
• Structural: to create the best league structure for Scottish professional football at all levels of the game
• Commercial and financial: to increase interest in and excitement surrounding the game, to maximise the money coming into the game and to address the financial gap between the bottom of the SPL and the top of the SFL

The Strategic Plan is about improving the long term health of the game in Scotland, for the benefit of all 42 professional clubs and all supporters. It is not about looking after the elite clubs to the exclusion of all others.

Process
The process of putting together a Strategic Plan has been led by the SPL Board (which, over the last two years has included directors from Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibernian, Motherwell, Rangers and St Mirren). But it has also involved a huge amount of other consultation. In addition to many formal and informal discussions with all 12 SPL clubs, we have met with and listened to SPL managers, supporter groups from all 12 SPL clubs, Supporters Direct and all 30 SFL clubs. The 12 SPL clubs discussed the plan collectively at all-club meetings in January and February and will next do so again on April 18th.

Recommendations
The plan covers over 100 pages. To try and do justice to the plan within a few hundred words is therefore difficult. But the key recommendations of the plan are these:

Overall structure of Scottish football
• Work with the SFA and with clubs at the bottom of the SFL to deliver a consensus solution to the current impasse on creating a pyramid structure within Scottish football
• Introduce a new system of permitted, one-off, short-term derogation from stadia criteria and other membership criteria set by the SPL

Overall league structure
• Merge the SPL with the SFL by inviting all 30 members of the SFL to become members of a new, 42-club league on the following basis:

o the existing four divisions become the responsibility of one enlarged league (referred to below as the ‘Premier League’, the ‘Championship’, ‘League One’ and ‘League Two’) as part of a future pyramid incorporating the South of Scotland League, the East of Scotland League, the Highland League and the Juniors

o the net revenues available for distribution from the newly enlarged league be split in the ratio 80 : 15 : 5 between Premier League : Championship : League One & League Two combined. On current revenues, this would result in £3.7million being given to the clubs outwith the Clydesdale Bank Premier League – more than double that at present. It would also mean that the club at the top of the second tier would receive around £500,000 in league distributions, against less than a sixth of that at present

League format
• Move to a 10-team format for the Premier League and 12 teams within the Championship
• Create an extra potential relegation place in the Premier League (and therefore an extra potential promotion place in the Championship) through the creation of play-offs between the top two divisions
• Mirror the German and Spanish leagues by allowing six under-23 Premier League ‘Colt’ teams to play in League Two
• Create a more even distribution mechanism within the Premier League, by redistributing money away from the top two positions in the league and reallocating it to the other eight clubs

Youth development
• Adopt a new ‘player pathway’, with a new Elite tier within the SFA Youth Initiative being created to ensure that the ‘best play the best’ and the SFA rewarding clubs for youth development based on results
• Oblige all Premier League and Championship clubs to be part of the SFA Youth Initiative at either Elite or Performance levels
• Scrap the current under-21 rule from the SPL’s senior competition
• Lobby the SFA to pay Scottish clubs for each Scottish player away on international duty

Calendar
• Start the league season earlier than at present
• Include a two-weekend post-New Year winter break

League organisation
• Replace one of the current four SPL club-representative directors on the Board with one representative from a club below the Premier League, whose remit it would be to represent the interests of all clubs outwith the Premier League
• Appoint two independent non-executive directors in order to create an eight-man Board comprising four club representatives and four independent directors (including the independent chairman and chief executive)
• Create an Operational Board with an equal number of Premier League and non-Premier League club representatives

Concerns
Most commentators understand that by moving to a larger top league, we would be doing nothing to bridge the financial gap between the top two divisions – indeed it might even exacerbate the situation. It would also cost Scottish football many millions of pounds if we adopted any league system that led to clubs playing each other just once at home and once away each season.

One of the key concerns that has been expressed publicly over the plans for a 10-team top league is that football would become very negative. But this is not borne out by the facts: between 1997 and 2000, when a 10-team set up was last used, the proportion of matches that were drawn was on average 27% - the same as last season within a 12-team format.

Relegation from the Clydesdale Bank Premier League currently spells financial Armageddon for the 12th-placed club each season. Undoubtedly the move to a 10-team Premier League and the possibility of the 8th placed team being relegated via the play-offs will add to the nervousness of club directors. But it will also create far more drama and excitement for supporters, both at the bottom of the Premier League and at the top of the Championship. And, when combined with the larger distributions to the Championship and bigger parachute payments for relegated clubs, should ensure that there is a far better chance of relegated clubs not having to lay off swathes of staff upon dropping down a division.

The plan would undoubtedly lead to much greater financial stability for Premier League clubs. Financially though, the big winners from the plan are those clubs within the second tier – as the plan attempts to bridge the huge financial gap that currently exists between the top two divisions.

Summary
The plan before clubs is one that looks after all 42 SPL and SFL clubs – and not just the elite. By moving to a flatter distribution of income within the Clydesdale Bank Premier League and by doubling the money given to SFL clubs, the plan addresses the financial gap between clubs. By moving to an earlier season start date, we give ourselves the best possible chance of bringing more fans through the turnstiles and attracting greater interest from the broadcasters – as well as giving our teams in Europe the best possible chance to progress, and reducing fixture congestion. By focussing on the development of young players through the Colt team system, we should ensure that the Scotland manager has more and better players to choose from in future. By bringing the SPL and SFL together, we establish a more efficient and effective administration. By adopting a pyramid for Scottish football, we would create an incentive for the most ambitious clubs within the Highland League, East of Scotland and South of Scotland Leagues and the Juniors to progress.

However, any meaningful progress can only be achieved if 11 out of the 12 Premier Clubs approve a package of change. The SPL Board has worked alongside Scotland’s clubs and supporter bodies to put a plan together that will take the whole of Scottish professional football forward. Now it’s time for the clubs to decide on what they want.

The meeting on 18th April will enable all 12 top tier clubs to set out their vision of change. When we surveyed 15,000 supporters last year, just 2% favoured sticking with the current 12-team set-up. Hardly anyone sees the status quo as a viable proposition. But for us to move beyond the status quo will require everyone involved in Scottish football to move beyond narrow, short term self-interest and to embrace a better future for the whole of professional football in this country. To do that, we need 11 clubs to agree on a way forward.

The SPL clubs will meet on 18th April to discuss the plan for the fourth time, and I do hope that we see clubs moving towards a consensus as to a coherent vision for the game in Scotland and get closer to the stage where a formal vote can be taken. The status quo is not an option.

Neil Doncaster
Chief Executive, Scottish Premier League

[marinello59]

I think you will find he is being "economical with the truth" , this guy is a joke and you have to wonder what his motives are for trying to force things through. If you receive any feedback from him could you share it on here but i would not hold my breath on that one.

His motives are to change Scottish football, a job he was told needed doing as the clubs wanted it. He probably totally underestimated how much resistance he would actually face from the multitude of conflicting self interests of the clubs themselves and the overwhelmingly conservative nature of football fans up here. I actually feel a bit sorry for him and wouldn't be surprised to see him pack it in soon. No doubt that will lead to outbreaks of joy on here. Meanwhile we will still be left with the substandard top level football we have at the moment. And we'll deserve it.

[dangermouse]

So do you want 22 games or 44 games in the SPL?

44. We have done it before and it is a tad too many games IMHO but it was better than the split. Personally I'd rather see a 16 team league but I expect to be long gone before that comes about.

In England they manage to fit in 46 games in some leagues.

[down the slope]

So do you want 22 games or 44 games in the SPL?

30. as it was when Hibs last won the league !.

[ancient hibee]

30. as it was when Hibs last won the league !.
Can't have that with 12 teams unfortunately which was why I asked the question.

[down the slope]

Can't have that with 12 teams unfortunately which was why I asked the question.

Ok , he wants 12 i want sixteen. There is more chance of both of these than the ten which now looks dead in the water , people are now a bit wiser to Doncasters tactics of misleading the public.

[ancient hibee]

Ok , he wants 12 i want sixteen. There is more chance of both of these than the ten which now looks dead in the water , people are now a bit wiser to Doncasters tactics of misleading the public.
It'll be 10.