Experience / Cheating

[Hibs Giant]

These words are somewhat interchangable in football, I find. Which ever you choose though Hearts are better than Hibs at using it / doing it.
It didn't quite come off for Zaliukas yesterday, but I haven't heard anyone mention Webster leading with his arm to impede Murray for their second goal. Hearts have always known how and when to foul. Sometimes it's spotted and punished, but so often not.

[TRC]

Pressley springs to mind when i read this always seemed to get away with murder especially at ER

[BoltonHibee]

These words are somewhat interchangable in football, I find. Which ever you choose though Hearts are better than Hibs at using it / doing it.
It didn't quite come off for Zaliukas yesterday, but I haven't heard anyone mention Webster leading with his arm to impede Murray for their second goal. Hearts have always known how and when to foul. Sometimes it's spotted and punished, but so often not.

Ian Murray was definately fouled as he rose to meet the ball. Websters arm on the back of his neck and then the nudge.

[3pm]

I think that, as a team, we have been naïve for years! We never seem to be as 'streetwise' as the pinkies.

[darwenhibby]

or is it we struggle to stay organised.
Murray was trying to mark two of theirs yesterday at the set peice.
If he was fouled which I didn't think so, why does he not go down?

[blackpoolhibs]

Ian Murray was definately fouled as he rose to meet the ball. Websters arm on the back of his neck and then the nudge.

Murray as usual was jumping from a standing start. Weak in the jump and even if fouled (and i have my doubts) nowhere near strong enough. He's a waste of space in a Hibs shirt these days, slower than a week in saughton and as for ability to pass a ball, its laughable. He's finished.

[easty]

Regardless of what Webster did, Murray should have shown more experience (cheated) by backing well into Webster long before the ball got anywhere near them. Markings not just about getting to the ball first, you stop the man you're marking from getting there as well.

If Murray had used his experience then the ball goes right out for a goal-kick.

[darwenhibby]

Murray as usual was jumping from a standing start. Weak in the jump and even if fouled (and i have my doubts) nowhere near strong enough. He's a waste of space in a Hibs shirt these days, slower than a week in saughton and as for ability to pass a ball, its laughable. He's finished.

Gary Neville knew when his time was up at Man United and bowed out gracefully.
I would put IM in the same mould as the Kano's Keiths Weirs Stantons whohave given everything for a Hibs jersey.

I think Ian Murray's contribution would be better utilised in the coaching staff.

[BoltonHibee]

Murray as usual was jumping from a standing start. Weak in the jump and even if fouled (and i have my doubts) nowhere near strong enough. He's a waste of space in a Hibs shirt these days, slower than a week in saughton and as for ability to pass a ball, its laughable. He's finished.

So what if it was a standing start, he was defending a free kick. A foul is a foul regardless of a standing start. He was clearly impeded. I know you have watched the game again, you must've seen that or is your dislike for Ian Murray these days clouding any sensibility?

[BoltonHibee]

or is it we struggle to stay organised.
Murray was trying to mark two of theirs yesterday at the set peice.
If he was fouled which I didn't think so, why does he not go down?

Because he was jumping at the time, he was immediately appealing to the referee when he landed on the ground. The ref must have witnessed the arm in the neck but chose to ignore it for whatever reason

[BoltonHibee]

Gary Neville knew when his time was up at Man United and bowed out gracefully.
I would put IM in the same mould as the Kano's Keiths Weirs Stantons whohave given everything for a Hibs jersey.

I think Ian Murray's contribution would be better utilised in the coaching staff.

Why?

Is he a good coach? Or did you have another role for him in mind?

[blackpoolhibs]

So what if it was a standing start, he was defending a free kick. A foul is a foul regardless of a standing start. He was clearly impeded. I know you have watched the game again, you must've seen that or is your dislike for Ian Murray these days clouding any sensibility?

Nah, Webster was just stronger and wanted it more. Murray could have backed in as someone else said, impeded him if you like. We see it going on all the time. But no, he was like a piece of wet lettuce.

You are right about me not liking him, although i dont know him as a person i do know him as a Hibs player, and yes you are quite correct, i dont like him when he pulls that famous green and white strip on. He's not worthy of it now.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why?

Is he a good coach? Or did you have another role for him in mind?

Driver? :dunno:

[BoltonHibee]

Nah, Webster was just stronger and wanted it more. Murray could have backed in as someone else said, impeded him if you like. We see it going on all the time. But no, he was like a piece of wet lettuce.

You are right about me not liking him, although i dont know him as a person i do know him as a Hibs player, and yes you are quite correct, i dont like him when he pulls that famous green and white strip on. He's not worthy of it now.

And if he'd given away a penalty at that point, he would have been castigated, and hung out to dry by you and no doubt others.

He was fouled, the ref didn't give it...have a go at him instead. The original free kick was never a foul, again have a go at the ref. Or is Ian Murray on your to do list every time he makes an appearance?

To blame Murray for that goal is ludicrous

[darwenhibby]

Why?

Is he a good coach? Or did you have another role for him in mind?

I think he would make a very good hibs coach possibly even a manager for the future. Ian Murray is to me the modern Mr Hibs.

Can you see Man United just saying to Ryan Giggs thanks for the service now good bye.

There will be a role for him at the club, just like there should always be for someone like Ian Murray at Easter Road.

[easty]

And if he'd given away a penalty at that point, he would have been castigated, and hung out to dry by you and no doubt others.

He was fouled, the ref didn't give it...have a go at him instead. The original free kick was never a foul, again have a go at the ref. Or is Ian Murray on your to do list every time he makes an appearance?

To blame Murray for that goal is ludicrous

It wasnt the refs fault Webster won the header, it was Ian Murrays. I bet Murray knows he should have done better, he'll be hurting for that, and so he should be.

There was no need for Murray to do anything that could have caused a penalty, stopping Webster getting to the ball would have been as simple as taking 1 or 2 steps back and being stronger. No grabbing, no pulling, just being a good defender.

[blackpoolhibs]

And if he'd given away a penalty at that point, he would have been castigated, and hung out to dry by you and no doubt others.

He was fouled, the ref didn't give it...have a go at him instead. The original free kick was never a foul, again have a go at the ref. Or is Ian Murray on your to do list every time he makes an appearance?

To blame Murray for that goal is ludicrous

I am not blaming him for the goal, although he played his part. There was a few things that went wrong leading up to it. Never a foul, murrays lettuce impression and marking in the 6 yard box. Murray is just finished, cannae run cannae pass the bloody thing, is sssssooooooooooo slow and Calderwood has thankfully replaced him, he will be way further down the pecking order next season.

[BoltonHibee]

I think he would make a very good hibs coach possibly even a manager for the future. Ian Murray is to me the modern Mr Hibs.

Can you see Man United just saying to Ryan Giggs thanks for the service now good bye.

There will be a role for him at the club, just like there should always be for someone like Ian Murray at Easter Road.

Our budget for all things football is slighly different to that of Manchester Utd's. I am not saying you are wrong about a role on the coaching staff, just wondering what you are basing this on. I am guessing you haven't got a clue really.

[easty]

I think he would make a very good hibs coach possibly even a manager for the future. Ian Murray is to me the modern Mr Hibs.

Can you see Man United just saying to Ryan Giggs thanks for the service now good bye.

There will be a role for him at the club, just like there should always be for someone like Ian Murray at Easter Road.

Enough with the comparisons Darwen, what do Giggs and Murray have in common? Apart from the fact neither of them will ever play at a World Cup, nowt.

[blackpoolhibs]

It wasnt the refs fault Webster won the header, it was Ian Murrays. I bet Murray knows he should have done better, he'll be hurting for that, and so he should be.

There was no need for Murray to do anything that could have caused a penalty, stopping Webster getting to the ball would have been as simple as taking 1 or 2 steps back and being stronger. No grabbing, no pulling, just being a good defender.

100% Spot on. :agree:

[BoltonHibee]

It wasnt the refs fault Webster won the header, it was Ian Murrays. I bet Murray knows he should have done better, he'll be hurting for that, and so he should be.

There was no need for Murray to do anything that could have caused a penalty, stopping Webster getting to the ball would have been as simple as taking 1 or 2 steps back and being stronger. No grabbing, no pulling, just being a good defender.

I go back to the point, he was fouled. He jumped for a header and had an arm thrust into the back of his neck and pushed. It was a free kick, I have watched this play 5 times now.

[easty]

I go back to the point, he was fouled. He jumped for a header and had an arm thrust into the back of his neck and pushed. It was a free kick, I have watched this play 5 times now.

So you don't believe he defended amateurishly for that set-piece then?

[darwenhibby]

Enough with the comparisons Darwen, what do Giggs and Murray have in common? Apart from the fact neither of them will ever play at a World Cup, nowt.

The fact is that both can make massive contributions to their clubs in the future now that both are in the twilight of their careers.

Giggs will not be disposed by Man United as Ian Murray should not be at Hibs.

Ian Murray has still a lot to offer Hibs.

At this moment he will be hurting more than anyone on here that we did not see the game out.

[blackpoolhibs]

Our budget for all things football is slighly different to that of Manchester Utd's. I am not saying you are wrong about a role on the coaching staff, just wondering what you are basing this on. I am guessing you haven't got a clue really.

:faf:

[BoltonHibee]

So you don't believe he defended amateurishly for that set-piece then?

No, not really. I think he was fouled and how the referee has not blown for the free kick I do not know.

[darwenhibby]

Our budget for all things football is slighly different to that of Manchester Utd's. I am not saying you are wrong about a role on the coaching staff, just wondering what you are basing this on. I am guessing you haven't got a clue really.

Haven't got a clue? perhaps right, just looking for a natural progression for a player who at the moment has more passion for the club than other s on the playing staff.

Hibs budget is different, but Ian Murrays demands will not be as high as say a Ryan Giggs.

Although his best days are behind him, I think it would be wrong to fully dispose of his services.

[blackpoolhibs]

No, not really. I think he was fouled and how the referee has not blown for the free kick I do not know.

He should have been stronger, ask dave if you can borrow that credit card thing you used to read the menu on Saturday. Watch the incident again for a 6th time. Then come back with the apology.

[BoltonHibee]

He should have been stronger, ask dave if you can borrow that credit card thing you used to read the menu on Saturday. Watch the incident again for a 6th time. Then come back with the apology.


I'm watching it now, still a foul all day long!

[darwenhibby]

I'm watching it now, still a foul all day long!

Foul or no foul, I do not think he should have been out muscled.

Do you think a Carrick or Darren Fletcher players of similar physique being out muscled like Murray was?

Time has just caught up with Ian Murray a little quicker than others.

[Hibs Giant]

I think the fact that even Hibs fans are doubting that it was a foul is when you might call it experience. Making Murray look weak. It's cheating, but cheating so well that it almost becomes fair. How he positions his arm, where on Murray's neck he places his elbow, everything. Hibs don't have that. I'm not saying I want Hibs to cheat, but I think it's part of the puzzle as to why our record against them is so poor.

..that, and perhaps an extra £5m a year on playing staff.

[brog]

The whole Hibs team was naive at the free kick. Yams had one earlier from slightly further out & hit exactly same delivery. Webster also won that one but VT ( I think ) challenged him sufficiently to prevent Webster getting on target. We all knew where the kick was going & should have been sufficiently street wise to prevent Webster getting effectively a free header.
PS, Glad to see Zaliaukas get his comeuppence even if 4 years late. Remember the League Cup presentation game where he continually fouled Rob Jones & somehow remained on the park to score the winner!

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think he would make a very good hibs coach possibly even a manager for the future. Ian Murray is to me the modern Mr Hibs.

Can you see Man United just saying to Ryan Giggs thanks for the service now good bye.

There will be a role for him at the club, just like there should always be for someone like Ian Murray at Easter Road.

I don't understand this.

Not everybody makes a good coach, it takes certain attributes to coach. Motivation, psychological knowledge, elements of man management etc etc.

I would love Ian to be kept on but we don't owe him anything, he is paid to do a job for us and in my opinion he is the one who has given 100% the most often on average. Every player should give this so Ian has been doing his job for the past few years putting in a few above average performances along the way.

The sooner we disregard sentiment, the sooner we may get somewhere!!!

[darwenhibby]

I don't understand this.

Not everybody makes a good coach, it takes certain attributes to coach. Motivation, psychological knowledge, elements of man management etc etc.

I would love Ian to be kept on but we don't owe him anything, he is paid to do a job for us and in my opinion he is the one who has given 100% the most often on average. Every player should give this so Ian has been doing his job for the past few years putting in a few above average performances along the way.

The sooner we disregard sentiment, the sooner we may get somewhere!!!

Motivation he has and would not be club captain if he did not have elements of man management.
Is he doing his coaching badges? Iam not sure. The only thing I do not know is if he has psychological knowledge. Two out of three aint bad to start with, lets see if he has got the other.

I would not be asking for every player to be retained in some capacity, just Ian Murray.

I thinks he has a lot to offer Hibs in the future just my opinion.

Gary Neville is another example as well as Giggs, however I am not sure about Paul Scholes.

At Hibs Ian Murray has something to offer but I don't think say Deeks or Nish have.

As I say just an opinion.

[TRC]

Motivation he has and would not be club captain if he did not have elements of man management.
Is he doing his coaching badges? Iam not sure. The only thing I do not know is if he has psychological knowledge. Two out of three aint bad to start with, lets see if he has got the other.

I would not be asking for every player to be retained in some capacity, just Ian Murray.

I thinks he has a lot to offer Hibs in the future just my opinion.

Gary Neville is another example as well as Giggs, however I am not sure about Paul Scholes.

At Hibs Ian Murray has something to offer but I don't think say Deeks or Nish have.

As I say just an opinion.

He has started his coaching badges and is doing coaching at a junior club can't remember which one however.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

Motivation he has and would not be club captain if he did not have elements of man management.
Is he doing his coaching badges? Iam not sure. The only thing I do not know is if he has psychological knowledge. Two out of three aint bad to start with, lets see if he has got the other.

I would not be asking for every player to be retained in some capacity, just Ian Murray.

I thinks he has a lot to offer Hibs in the future just my opinion.

Gary Neville is another example as well as Giggs, however I am not sure about Paul Scholes.

At Hibs Ian Murray has something to offer but I don't think say Deeks or Nish have.

As I say just an opinion.

Aye, thats a start then. I like Ian so in some cases it does help to have guys stay on who care for the club (as long as they have the tools).

Using the sentiment card is dangerous in football, its ****ed with us in previous seasons and has proved detrimental to tons of clubs.

Would be interesting to hear of many success stories of 'sentimental' appointments in coaching or management.

I am gonna start by stating Alan Shearer at Newcastle?

[The Falcon]

He has started his coaching badges and is doing coaching at a junior club can't remember which one however.

He's at Spartans.

[Future17]

Motivation he has and would not be club captain if he did not have elements of man management.
Is he doing his coaching badges? Iam not sure. The only thing I do not know is if he has psychological knowledge. Two out of three aint bad to start with, lets see if he has got the other.

I think 99% of people might agree with you but the other 3% aren't sure. :greengrin