Hun chairman speaks - NOT an April Fool

[JeMeSouviens]

Oh, yes please. :thumbsup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12932160.stm

[Stevie Reid]

How the **** can a club who has just won the league (not to mention one that has so many supporters and is in such financial dire straits) suffer a decline in season ticket sales?!

[Stevie Reid]

How the **** can a club who has just won the league (not to mention one that has so many supporters and is in such financial dire straits) suffer a decline in season ticket sales?!

PS - are Hearts still being investigated regarding the same methods of paying (or not paying) taxes?

[Pretty Boy]

Oh, yes please. :thumbsup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12932160.stm

:pray:

Please, please let this happen.

[Pretty Boy]

PS - are Hearts still being investigated regarding the same use of paying (or not paying) taxes?

Na na mate you've got this all wrong. Thats all part of Vlads business strategy if you don't make a profit and stay in debt the you don't have to pay taxes. It's very clever or so i read on kickback anyway.

[IanM]

I would emphasise that no allegations have been made to suggest any illegal activity and tax vehicles of this type have been used by a number of companies throughout the country," he said.
"We continue to vigorously contest HMRC's challenge on the taxation treatment of the trust and, in doing so, continue to receive reassuring opinion from tax, accounting and legal specialists."

HMRC may not have made any 'allegations' but they have surely unearthed something..

[Beefster]

This is the campaign beginning for Rangers to be treated leniently. The Sun and the Record will be right on this like flies on *****.

Thankfully, HMRC are one of the few organisations who don't really give two hoots about any pressure or guilt trips directed at them.

[greenginger]

PS - are Hearts still being investigated regarding the same methods of paying (or not paying) taxes?


Yep, according to their last set of accounts. Page 24, at the date of sign off, 8th April 2010 the club was subject of an ongoing investigation by HMRC.

Their 2010 accounts are not published yet, 2 months overdue whats new, but if there had been a settlement I'm sure they would have told everyone of their 400,000 fans. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

There's no way Rangers are going to go bust. This is just an attempt to put pressure on the authorities.

Poor wee Rangers, picked on by the HMRC and, if it all goes mammaries skyward, it's not their fault at all.... etc, etc.

The truth is they lived beyond their means and used questionable tax practices to get players to sign for them. The chances of anyone at Rangers admitting any of that is nill.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is the campaign beginning for Rangers to be treated leniently. The Sun and the Record will be right on this like flies on *****.

Thankfully, HMRC are one of the few organisations who don't really give two hoots about any pressure or guilt trips directed at them.

Actually, this may have been true of them a few years back. It annoyed the hell out of me when they took the "blood out of a stone" approach and pursued taxpayers into oblivion, thereby throwing people out of work and costing the State more.

Recently, however, they seem to have adopted a more sensible and commercial approach, and use a much more pragmatic head when they negotiate settlements. High time, IMO.

So... expect a negotiated settlement. Sadly.:greengrin

[robinp]

Just my 2pence worth, but I would presume if HMRC found against Rangers and the other clubs who have paid their players by means of offshore arrangements, they would have done so on the advice of their tax advisors/accountants.

Normally when bad advice is provided, the company would make a claim against the indemnity or insurance or such like of the advisor/accountant which would then foot the bill.

[Stevie Reid]

Yep, according to their last set of accounts. Page 24, at the date of sign off, 8th April 2010 the club was subject of an ongoing investigation by HMRC.

Their 2010 accounts are not published yet, 2 months overdue whats new, but if there had been a settlement I'm sure they would have told everyone of their 400,000 fans. :greengrin

Cheers:thumbsup:

[Hibs Class]

I would emphasise that no allegations have been made to suggest any illegal activity and tax vehicles of this type have been used by a number of companies throughout the country," he said.
"We continue to vigorously contest HMRC's challenge on the taxation treatment of the trust and, in doing so, continue to receive reassuring opinion from tax, accounting and legal specialists."

HMRC may not have made any 'allegations' but they have surely unearthed something..

Typical official Hun statement - they're never going to win any trophies for using plain English.

[Hank Schrader]

Yep, according to their last set of accounts. Page 24, at the date of sign off, 8th April 2010 the club was subject of an ongoing investigation by HMRC.

Their 2010 accounts are not published yet, 2 months overdue whats new, but if there had been a settlement I'm sure they would have told everyone of their 400,000 fans. :greengrin

Yep, two months overdue and the same happened last year. As both the 2009 and 2010 accounts fall under the new Companies Act 2006 they will be liable to double penalties this year, a new legislation brought in for repeat offenders. No doubt the hold up is due to the auditors having a nightmare trying to get valid answers to balances in the financial statements. I can imagine Hearts financial affairs being a convoluted nightmare.

[Mikey]

If Rangers are hit with a big tax bill for this then you can be sure that Hearts will be close behind as they're trying to get round the tax in the same way.

There's a common denominator here and he's right at the top of Scottish football. Campbell Ogilvie.

[CropleyWasGod]

If Rangers are hit with a big tax bill for this then you can be sure that Hearts will be close behind as they're trying to get round the tax in the same way.

There's a common denominator here and he's right at the top of Scottish football. Campbell Ogilvie.

Is the Hearts' investigation about offshore trusts as well? I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

[Bishop Hibee]

Sadly there is no chance of the huns going bust. Too many friends in high places.

A few years of relative penury and getting humped in Europe at the first hurdle would be welcome though.

[PaulSmith]

Oh, yes please. :thumbsup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/12932160.stm


Quite simply the chairman is using the same scare tactic and pressure to force the biggest creditors and the only credible buyer to sell.buy

[hibeeleicester]

IF, and that's a BIG IF, Rangers were to go bust, would you welcome their Edinburgh contingent along to Easter Road?

[Pretty Boy]

IF, and that's a BIG IF, Rangers were to go bust, would you welcome their Edinburgh contingent along to Easter Road?

Why would Hearts supporters want to come to ER?:wink:

[Dunbar Hibee]

IF, and that's a BIG IF, Rangers were to go bust, would you welcome their Edinburgh contingent along to Easter Road?

No.

[Mark79]

Looks like a non story to distract from the inevitable purchase going through sadly. Surely this guy who is buying rangers knows that the dept needs repaying and that there is a potential amount due to the HMRC, this would be the main areas to fully understand before signing on the dotted. If the sale falls through then yes it potentially could happen, but we all know about the secret handshake type world the huns live in.

As for the mini huns they are *****d if a claim comes in from HMRC. Happy days.

[iwasthere1972]

No way will the huns go bust and out of business.

It would however be good if their budget for players and wages was cut dramatically and at the same time they had to offload what half decent players they have.

We would then see how good Super Ally is at this management game.

[Sergey]

Is the Hearts' investigation about offshore trusts as well? I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

There was a handful of clubs being investigated by HMRC regarding offshore accounting and UK tax avoidance. IIRC, Portsmouth and Blackburn were high-fliers in the EPL and Hartlepool were also implicated. Man City was another but they've since been taken over.

There was two from Scotland, those being Rangers and Hearts.

The original article first appeared in The Times.....but they've went subscription only and I can't pull it from my bookmarks.

[CropleyWasGod]

There was a handful of clubs being investigated by HMRC regarding offshore accounting and UK tax avoidance. IIRC, Portsmouth and Blackburn were high-fliers in the EPL and Hartlepool were also implicated. Man City was another but they've since been taken over.

There was two from Scotland, those being Rangers and Hearts.

The original article first appeared in The Times.....but they've went subscription only and I can't pull it from my bookmarks.

Ok, cheers.

Being in the tax agent profession itself, I am always a bit sceptical about these kind of stories. In order to appear, they do need someone to break confidentiality barriers... and the source might be someone either with a grudge or wanting to be seen as some kind of whistleblower; in other words, not necessarily independent or telling the full story.

I don't doubt that HMRC are investigating HMFC.... that fact was in their accounts... was just a bit unconvinced about the basis of the enquiry.

[Sergey]

Ok, cheers.

Being in the tax agent profession itself, I am always a bit sceptical about these kind of stories. In order to appear, they do need someone to break confidentiality barriers... and the source might be someone either with a grudge or wanting to be seen as some kind of whistleblower; in other words, not necessarily independent or telling the full story.

I don't doubt that HMRC are investigating HMFC.... that fact was in their accounts... was just a bit unconvinced about the basis of the enquiry.

Not the exact story as it ran, but this is what I've managed to find on the WWW.

http://www.international-adviser.com/article/threequarters-of-uk-football-clubs-are-offshore

As I said, in the original article, it was Rangers and Hertz that were mentioned.

[ElginHibbie]

Why would Hearts supporters want to come to ER?:wink:

:top marks

[CropleyWasGod]

Not the exact story as it ran, but this is what I've managed to find on the WWW.

http://www.international-adviser.com/article/threequarters-of-uk-football-clubs-are-offshore

As I said, in the original article, it was Rangers and Hertz that were mentioned.

Okay, thanks. That's the first time I have seen anything in print. How I read it is that the Christian Aid guy decided that HMFC were domiciled offshore. What it doesn't say is that they are being investigated by HMRC for that reason.

Of course, HMRC will have read the article and that may well have prompted an enquiry along those lines. Indeed, they would have been irresponsible not to have. However, HMRC and good sense don't always go together, and the investigation may well have centred on completely different things.

Whatever the reason, it is unusual for a company to disclose such a matter in their accounts. To me, that means that it is serious and potentially very expensive.

[Sir David Gray]

There was a handful of clubs being investigated by HMRC regarding offshore accounting and UK tax avoidance. IIRC, Portsmouth and Blackburn were high-fliers in the EPL and Hartlepool were also implicated. Man City was another but they've since been taken over.

There was two from Scotland, those being Rangers and Hearts.

The original article first appeared in The Times.....but they've went subscription only and I can't pull it from my bookmarks.

This what you're looking for? :dunno:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7127776.ece

[Sergey]

This what you're looking for? :dunno:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7127776.ece

Bullseye :thumbsup:

Not sure if that was the exact article that I read (as Rangers were definitely mentioned) but it'll suffice for discussion purposes.

[JeMeSouviens]

Apparently it's all to do with an "Employee Benefits Trust" that der Hun used to try and dodge paying tax to some of their high earners. Lots of financial chat mixed with schadenfreude from a Tim who's either on the inside of HMRC or very imaginative here ...

http://rangerstaxcase.com/

[adhibs]

IF, and that's a BIG IF, Rangers were to go bust, would you welcome their Edinburgh contingent along to Easter Road?

haha honestly? Theyl never go out of business. I'd find it too hard to explain how happy id be if it did happen though

[ScottB]

Looks like a non story to distract from the inevitable purchase going through sadly. Surely this guy who is buying rangers knows that the dept needs repaying and that there is a potential amount due to the HMRC, this would be the main areas to fully understand before signing on the dotted. If the sale falls through then yes it potentially could happen, but we all know about the secret handshake type world the huns live in.

As for the mini huns they are *****d if a claim comes in from HMRC. Happy days.

I believe the hold up is partly the new buyers wanting Murray to retain responsibility for any such HMRC penalties...

[ginger_rice]

Love this bit:

"The real concern for Rangers is the judgement they await from Her Majesty's Revenue"

Remember how they threatened to boycott the bank wonder if they'll now boycott Lizzie?

[7Hero]

I wouldn't get too excited, profit before tax of 9million pretty viable business still

[ancient hibee]

Apparently it's all to do with an "Employee Benefits Trust" that der Hun used to try and dodge paying tax to some of their high earners. Lots of financial chat mixed with schadenfreude from a Tim who's either on the inside of HMRC or very imaginative here ...

http://rangerstaxcase.com/
I think you're a wee bit mixed up-the idea is to pay high earners offshore so that the earner doesn't pay full tax.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think you're a wee bit mixed up-the idea is to pay high earners offshore so that the earner doesn't pay full tax.

... and RFC pay less NI than they would otherwise.

[Antifa Hibs]

How the **** can a club who has just won the league (not to mention one that has so many supporters and is in such financial dire straits) suffer a decline in season ticket sales?!

Probably 'cos all the gloryhunters who used to swell the attendences of of the glesga two are fed up of watching dross like Kirk Broadfoot and Davey Weir and now go off to the pub to watch 'their teams' such as Man U, Chelsea, Barca etc.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think you're a wee bit mixed up-the idea is to pay high earners offshore so that the earner doesn't pay full tax.

Not according to the mole/fantasist* ...

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/29/lies-damned-lies-and-scottish-football-journalism/


* delete as takes your fancy.

[banchoryhibs]

Not according to the mole/fantasist* ...

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/29/lies-damned-lies-and-scottish-football-journalism/


* delete as takes your fancy.

This guy appears to know what he is talking about and this is much the same detail as other internet searches about EBTs.

Der Hun may well be in deep ***** - I guess that time will tell :greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Not according to the mole/fantasist* ...

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/

http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/29/lies-damned-lies-and-scottish-football-journalism/


* delete as takes your fancy.
What you said originally was that Rangers were trying to dodge paying tax to their high earners.Well obviously they don't pay tax to any employees.What they are doing is paying their employees without deducting tax.These employees are due the tax-an argument might be that it is not Rangers who are due the tax but the employees.

[CropleyWasGod]

What you said originally was that Rangers were trying to dodge paying tax to their high earners.Well obviously they don't pay tax to any employees.What they are doing is paying their employees without deducting tax.These employees are due the tax-an argument might be that it is not Rangers who are due the tax but the employees.

HMRC's view in cases where tax has not been deducted properly (as is alleged here) is that the employer then becomes liable for it. The wages actually paid are "grossed-up", and the PAYE and NI calculated on that gross figure.

So, yes, RFC would be held liable.

[ancient hibee]

HMRC's view in cases where tax has not been deducted properly (as is alleged here) is that the employer then becomes liable for it. The wages actually paid are "grossed-up", and the PAYE and NI calculated on that gross figure.

So, yes, RFC would be held liable.
Goodie.

[Halifaxhibby]

I think the huns season ticket sales will fall next season as the government is really tightening up the rules on benefit payments, I hear they're no longer paying out incapacity benefit on the principle you dodge soap!!.:greengrin

[7Hero]

have to say though as i run a business and have quarterly vat returns and yearly tax payments to make it is quite noticeable how determined hmrc are to get monies in these days. If it were to happen and they didn't make der hun pay like all other businesses now are expected it would be an outrage !!

[NAE NOOKIE]

If it turns out the Huns were able to afford a better standard of player than they should have been by dodging taxes, does this mean that any trophies they have won since this scam started should be stripped from them.

After all ..... In football where money is a big factor in success, surely breaking the law to attract better players is CHEATING !!!

:greengrin