Out of contract players

[Diclonius]

Here's the current status of the out of contract players we had at the start of the season or have now, be good to keep it updated.

Sol Bamba - sold
Kurtis Byrne - contract not renewed
Lee Currie - released
Francis Dickoh
Darryl Duffy - not offered permenant contract
Thomas Flynn - contract not renewed
Danny Galbraith - new deal until 2013
Chris Hogg - released
Kevin McBride - contract not renewed
Kevin McCann - contract not renewed
Liam Miller - moved on free transfer
Ewan Moyes - contract not renewed
Colin Nish - contract not renewed
John Rankin - contract not renewed
Derek Riordan
Graeme Smith - released
Graham Stack - new deal until 2012
Lewis Stevenson - new deal until 2012
Steven Thicot - contract not renewed
Richie Towell
Valdas Trakys - contract not renewed
Ricardo Vaz Te
Sean Welsh - new deal until 2012
Merouane Zemmama - sold

[easty]

Galbraith signed a new deal didnt he?

[Diclonius]

Galbraith signed a new deal didnt he?

So he has, was out of the country at the time so missed that completely. :rolleyes:

[Jones28]

Would be surprised if Stack, Nish, Duffy and Trakys werent in red by the end of the season

[matty_f]

Here's the current status of the out of contract players we had at the start of the season or have now, be good to keep it updated.

Sol Bamba - sold
Kurtis Byrne
Lee Currie - released
Francis Dickoh
Darryl Duffy
Danny Galbraith - new deal until 2013
Chris Hogg - released
Kevin McBride - released
Kevin McCann
Liam Miller - been offered a 2 year deal, IIRC, yet to accept.
Ewan Moyes - told he can leave
Colin Nish
John Rankin - told he can leave
Derek Riordan
Graeme Smith
Graham Stack
Lewis Stevenson
Steven Thicot
Richie Towell
Valdas Trakys
Ricardo Vaz Te
Sean Welsh
Merouane Zemmama - sold

Updated Liam Miller.

[Wotherspiniesta]

So who do we think will be the next for the boot?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smith, Thicot, Trakys, McCann and Nish were all to leave to be honest.

[matty_f]

So who do we think will be the next for the boot?

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smith, Thicot, Trakys, McCann and Nish were all to leave to be honest.

I think we'll see all of them go, to be honest, as well as Duffy.

I'd have been happy to see Stevenson go pre-Calderwood, however he's been good (as opposed to just being 'not bad') in his last few games and hasn't let anyone down. So, I've revised my opinion to put Lewis in the "wouldn't mind if he stayed" category. Probably still not actively hoping he'll stay, right enough, but heading that way!:greengrin

[Mikeystewart]

Would be surprised if Stack, Nish, Duffy and Trakys werent in red by the end of the season

from what I've heard through the grape vine this might well be the case, unfortunately.

[HibeeUnderwood]

from what I've heard through the grape vine this might well be the case, unfortunately.

I don't get it though. In the games we played with Stack in goal, we did very well as did he, and its unfortunate that he is once again on the sidelines, but I still think he did enough in those games to earn a new deal. So the only reason I can think of for him not getting one is that CC doesn't like how injury prone he seems to be, which I think is a tad harsh. He can easily compete with Brown next season for the keepers jersey as I believe/hope Smith won't be here next season, and if CC wants to bring in someone else to replace him, then so be it.

[SRHibs]

Here's the current status of the out of contract players we had at the start of the season or have now, be good to keep it updated.

Sol Bamba - sold
Kurtis Byrne
Lee Currie - released
Francis Dickoh
Darryl Duffy
Danny Galbraith - new deal until 2013
Chris Hogg - released
Kevin McBride - released
Kevin McCann
Liam Miller
Ewan Moyes - told he can leave
Colin Nish
John Rankin - told he can leave
Derek Riordan
Graeme Smith
Graham Stack
Lewis Stevenson
Steven Thicot
Richie Towell
Valdas Trakys
Ricardo Vaz Te
Sean Welsh
Merouane Zemmama - sold

Would keep the emboldened ones.

[Dashing Bob S]

Would keep the emboldened ones.

Agreed 100%.

[BEEJ]

So he has, was out of the country at the time so missed that completely. :rolleyes:
If you add the name of Thomas Flynn, the list in your OP will be complete.

In summary, the contracts of 18 out of the current squad of 35 players end this season; and we are told that Rankin and Moyes have already been advised they can leave.

[Stevie Reid]

Would keep the emboldened ones.


I think we'll see all of them go, to be honest, as well as Duffy.

I'd have been happy to see Stevenson go pre-Calderwood, however he's been good (as opposed to just being 'not bad') in his last few games and hasn't let anyone down. So, I've revised my opinion to put Lewis in the "wouldn't mind if he stayed" category. Probably still not actively hoping he'll stay, right enough, but heading that way!:greengrin

Agree with both of these.

[matty_f]

If you add the name of Thomas Flynn, the list in your OP will be complete.

In summary, the contracts of 18 out of the current squad of 35 players end this season; and we are told that Rankin and Moyes have already been advised they can leave.

Don't think there are many arguments about the ones who have left already either. We have been quite fortunate that calderwood has had the scope to move these players on at very little, or no, cost to the club. Great to see that some of the names on that list are still contributing as well, even with uncertain futures.

I wonder if people still think that it was such an outrageous situation to be in.

[Stevie Reid]

Don't think there are many arguments about the ones who have left already either. We have been quite fortunate that calderwood has had the scope to move these players on at very little, or no, cost to the club. Great to see that some of the names on that list are still contributing as well, even with uncertain futures.

I wonder if people still think that it was such an outrageous situation to be in.

I've often argued that this is a situation that should have benefitted us greatly, and it certainly wasn't enough of a reason to excuse the performances that we were subjected to earlier in the season. CC obviously didn't feel it should be a hindrance given that he told McBride that he was definitely going, and then played him in the next 4 games.

[IWasThere2016]

If you add the name of Thomas Flynn, the list in your OP will be complete.

In summary, the contracts of 18 out of the current squad of 35 players end this season; and we are told that Rankin and Moyes have already been advised they can leave.

Nish also? :confused: I thought it read that somewhere - might have just been wishful dreaming though ..

[matty_f]

I've often argued that this is a situation that should have benefitted us greatly, and it certainly wasn't enough of a reason to excuse the performances that we were subjected to earlier in the season. CC obviously didn't feel it should be a hindrance given that he told McBride that he was definitely going, and then played him in the next 4 games.

Same here, given how poor the level of player we've had over the last season and a bit, I was delighted that there was scope to move them on.

[BEEJ]

Don't think there are many arguments about the ones who have left already either. We have been quite fortunate that calderwood has had the scope to move these players on at very little, or no, cost to the club. Great to see that some of the names on that list are still contributing as well, even with uncertain futures.

I wonder if people still think that it was such an outrageous situation to be in.
I do - for reasons that I have detailed on here before.

If there are players in the squad who have no long-term future in their key position, you either loan them out, adapt them to play in another role in the team or come to some arrangement to release them from their contract. You can carry a few soon-to-be-out-of-contract squad players through a season, but not around 20!

To muddle along for so long with two thirds of the squad having no longer-term affinity with the club was utter folly. An experiment that I hope we will never try again.

[--------]

Don't think there are many arguments about the ones who have left already either. We have been quite fortunate that calderwood has had the scope to move these players on at very little, or no, cost to the club. Great to see that some of the names on that list are still contributing as well, even with uncertain futures.

I wonder if people still think that it was such an outrageous situation to be in.


It was always going to cause problems, IMO.

So many first-team players with no long-term interest in the club's standing or league position was bound to result in questions of their morale and commitment.

The ones who were assured of a place at a new club would be liable to detach from Hibs - basically not bother themselves, since they were sure they were moving on.

Those who didn't have that assurance MIGHT try harder; alternatively, they might just give up entirely. I would say that the manager would have to be right on the ball to keep a squad going in those circumstances.

I would say CC has done well to move on the players he has; has made good use of the younger players like Booth and Hanlon and Witherspoon; has done well to revive Lewis's form (all credit to Lewis too); and has brought in a good number of useful players (no useless ones as far as I can see). He's also in process of identifying the younger players he wants to promote, while giving the others good warning so that they (like young Moyes) can get busy looking for another club now.

I would expect another fairly busy window in the summer, and a few more younger players promoted through the course of next season.

But imagine of Hughes had managed to hang on past January before leaving - think of the nightmare facing the new guy THEN. IMO we really don't want more than half-a-dozen guys going out of contract each season at most.

[matty_f]

I do - for reasons that I have detailed on here before.

If there are players in the squad who have no long-term future in their key position, you either loan them out, adapt them to play in another role in the team or come to some arrangement to release them from their contract. You can carry a few soon-to-be-out-of-contract squad players through a season, but not around 20!

To muddle along for so long with two thirds of the squad having no longer-term affinity with the club was utter folly. An experiment that I hope we will never try again.


It was always going to cause problems, IMO.

So many first-team players with no long-term interest in the club's standing or league position was bound to result in questions of their morale and commitment.

The ones who were assured of a place at a new club would be liable to detach from Hibs - basically not bother themselves, since they were sure they were moving on.

Those who didn't have that assurance MIGHT try harder; alternatively, they might just give up entirely. I would say that the manager would have to be right on the ball to keep a squad going in those circumstances.

I would say CC has done well to move on the players he has; has made good use of the younger players like Booth and Hanlon and Witherspoon; has done well to revive Lewis's form (all credit to Lewis too); and has brought in a good number of useful players (no useless ones as far as I can see). He's also in process of identifying the younger players he wants to promote, while giving the others good warning so that they (like young Moyes) can get busy looking for another club now.

I would expect another fairly busy window in the summer, and a few more younger players promoted through the course of next season.

But imagine of Hughes had managed to hang on past January before leaving - think of the nightmare facing the new guy THEN. IMO we really don't want more than half-a-dozen guys going out of contract each season at most.

Given that we brought players to the club in January, I'm off the opinion that we would have done that regardless of who the manager was, and that we'd be seeing the same or similar situation we have now, where those that are on their way out playing less and less of a role in the first 11 and slowly, steadily, and economically drifting away from the club.

I would 100% much rather be facing a position where we can loose some of the deadwood around the squad without it having any adverse effect on CC's budget for improving the squad, than have had even a handful of the players given year-long extensions that would have either required to be paid off, or have the players in the team because we couldn't afford to replace them.

[BEEJ]

Given that we brought players to the club in January, I'm off the opinion that we would have done that regardless of who the manager was, and that we'd be seeing the same or similar situation we have now, where those that are on their way out playing less and less of a role in the first 11 and slowly, steadily, and economically drifting away from the club.
The transfer activity in January was given a certain edge and urgency by our predicament of being on a dismal run of results, having been ousted from the Scottish Cup by a lower division side and flirting alarmingly with an end of season relegation struggle.

The fact that we currently have a squad numbering 35 players, a record in recent seasons by some margin, suggests that the club has had to move well beyond the norm in order to back the Manager and ensure SPL survival.

Also, if well-paid senior players are kept on to see out their contracts but remain permanently on the fringes of the squad and seldom see first-team action, I can't see that as them "economically drifting away from the club".


I would 100% much rather be facing a position where we can loose some of the deadwood around the squad without it having any adverse effect on CC's budget for improving the squad, than have had even a handful of the players given year-long extensions that would have either required to be paid off, or have the players in the team because we couldn't afford to replace them.
As stated above, the playing budget looks like it's had to be exceeded this season in any event. Having the 'deadwood' on our books hasn't really done us any favours, in so many ways.

There is no doubt that now the spectre of a relegation battle looks like it has moved on, the opportunity for an end of season clear-out marks a great opportunity.

But I for one cannot forget quite so easily what we've had to endure during this season. And in my view a key reason for many of those poor results and accompanying dismal performances was down to the contract situation.

[GordonHFC]

Nish also? :confused: I thought it read that somewhere - might have just been wishful dreaming though ..
He has. Apparently 2 SPL clubs interested.

[mjhibby]

I would think cc and adams will want to keep,dickoh,riordan,millar,vaz te,towell and probably stack and stevenson.Im afraid i cant see any others being offered terms which means a lot of bodies in this summer.Whether riordan or miller stay is anydoys guess but if they do go then we are looking at recruiting virtually a full squad of players.As has been said before this is a ridiculous situation to be in and both hughes and petrie must shoulder the blame although had the players that had been signed done the business on the park we wouldnt be moaning.
I feel as good about hibs now as i have done since collins was in charge and can see ccs pragmatism and eye for the right type of player leading us to top 5 next season and hopefully europe the season after that.

[matty_f]

The transfer activity in January was given a certain edge and urgency by our predicament of being on a dismal run of results, having been ousted from the Scottish Cup by a lower division side and flirting alarmingly with an end of season relegation struggle.

The fact that we currently have a squad numbering 35 players, a record in recent seasons by some margin, suggests that the club has had to move well beyond the norm in order to back the Manager and ensure SPL survival.

Also, if well-paid senior players are kept on to see out their contracts but remain permanently on the fringes of the squad and seldom see first-team action, I can't see that as them "economically drifting away from the club".


As stated above, the playing budget looks like it's had to be exceeded this season in any event. Having the 'deadwood' on our books hasn't really done us any favours, in so many ways.

There is no doubt that now the spectre of a relegation battle looks like it has moved on, the opportunity for an end of season clear-out marks a great opportunity.

But I for one cannot forget quite so easily what we've had to endure during this season. And in my view a key reason for many of those poor results and accompanying dismal performances was down to the contract situation.

I suspect we'd have seen a similar amount of players in through the January window regardless, because we know the wage bill and squad size will be in a very manageable position come the summer. IIRC, Yogi said from early on that he'd rather be working with a smaller squad and had aimed to reduce the size of it. I very much expect CC to reduce the squad size significantly as well.


I would think cc and adams will want to keep,dickoh,riordan,millar,vaz te,towell and probably stack and stevenson.Im afraid i cant see any others being offered terms which means a lot of bodies in this summer.Whether riordan or miller stay is anydoys guess but if they do go then we are looking at recruiting virtually a full squad of players.As has been said before this is a ridiculous situation to be in and both hughes and petrie must shoulder the blame although had the players that had been signed done the business on the park we wouldnt be moaning.
I feel as good about hibs now as i have done since collins was in charge and can see ccs pragmatism and eye for the right type of player leading us to top 5 next season and hopefully europe the season after that.

Would you rather have players who were taking the club down fast (under two different managers), or would you rather the club decided to take action and let their contracts run down? I know which I prefer.

[BEEJ]

I suspect we'd have seen a similar amount of players in through the January window regardless, because we know the wage bill and squad size will be in a very manageable position come the summer. IIRC, Yogi said from early on that he'd rather be working with a smaller squad and had aimed to reduce the size of it. I very much expect CC to reduce the squad size significantly as well.
The point is, you're reflecting on where we are now rather than where we have been this season.

The true test is whether, in light of the misery we have endured this season on the field of play, one would commit the club to similar contract circumstances again in future. I hope we've learned our lesson!


Would you rather have players who were taking the club down fast (under two different managers), or would you rather the club decided to take action and let their contracts run down? I know which I prefer.
'Taking action' would be coming to an arrangement to release them early; not letting large numbers of them hang around knowing that they're unlikely to have a future at the club.

Cutting one's losses and recognising past recruitment failures in that way can be an expensive business and RP has certainly shunned that approach in the last 18 months.

Instead this season we have the expense of early cup exits and a likely bottom six finish to reflect on.

[Beefster]

Here's the current status of the out of contract players we had at the start of the season or have now, be good to keep it updated.

Sol Bamba - sold
Kurtis Byrne
Lee Currie - released
Francis Dickoh
Darryl Duffy
Danny Galbraith - new deal until 2013
Chris Hogg - released
Kevin McBride - released
Kevin McCann
Liam Miller
Ewan Moyes - told he can leave
Colin Nish
John Rankin - told he can leave
Derek Riordan
Graeme Smith
Graham Stack
Lewis Stevenson
Steven Thicot
Richie Towell
Valdas Trakys
Ricardo Vaz Te
Sean Welsh
Merouane Zemmama - sold

The vast majority of those left could be replaced by better easily so I won't lose any sleep if any of them leave. I'd like to see Miller and Riordan stay but only on Hibs' terms. I'm not sure either of them offer enough, often enough to justify a 'break the bank' offer.

[matty_f]

The point is, you're reflecting on where we are now rather than where we have been this season.

The true test is whether, in light of the misery we have endured this season on the field of play, one would commit the club to similar contract circumstances again in future. I hope we've learned our lesson!


'Taking action' would be coming to an arrangement to release them early; not letting large numbers of them hang around knowing that they're unlikely to have a future at the club.

Cutting one's losses and recognising past recruitment failures in that way can be an expensive business and RP has certainly shunned that approach in the last 18 months.

Instead this season we have the expense of early cup exits and a likely bottom six finish to reflect on.

I think it's better to take stock now, having been through the worst of it (I hope!) and reflect on whether there was weight behind the various arguments for and against a number of points. IMHO, we have already got players in place to replace some of those departing, and we did what I thought we should do (which was to spend on bringing players in knowing that the hit on the finances would be short term until the departing players departed.)

These players are still hanging around the squad (or have been), McBride has featured, Rankin has featured, Stevenson has featured, the keepers have featured and yet we've won games and safeguarded our SPL status. If it was the contract situation that was the issue, we'd still be donald ducked because these players would be killing the club and moping about.

Hibs tried to take action in releasing/coming to an arrangement with some of the players, who weren't up for it (which is their right, under contract.) I think the Board were also reluctant to spend more on releasing players given that we have terminated early a number of contracts over the last few seasons.

That theory has been proven wrong, IMHO.

I would hope we're never in a position where we have to look at doing that again, because I hope that the quality of the squad never plumbs the depths that it has this season.

[BEEJ]

These players are still hanging around the squad (or have been), McBride has featured, Rankin has featured, Stevenson has featured, the keepers have featured and yet we've won games and safeguarded our SPL status.

If it was the contract situation that was the issue, we'd still be donald ducked because these players would be killing the club and moping about.
Our January transfer activity transformed the position radically in so far as it affected the teams taking the field.

Instead of a team of 11 players, 7 or 8 of whom were destined for the exit door by June 11, we were actually fielding teams with 7 or 8 players who had futures with the club beyond that point.

A very significant turnaround in terms of motivation and team dynamics.

[matty_f]

Our January transfer activity transformed the position radically in so far as it affected the teams taking the field.

Instead of a team of 11 players, 7 or 8 of whom were destined for the exit door by June 11, we were actually fielding teams with 7 or 8 players who had futures with the club beyond that point.

A very significant turnaround in terms of motivation and team dynamics.

Yep, and we were able to bring them in because we knew we were getting rid of x amount of players without taking a financial hit for it.

[BEEJ]

Yep, and we were able to bring them in because we knew we were getting rid of x amount of players without taking a financial hit for it.
No. The plan had been to muddle through with what we had.

You're not surely suggesting that it was always part of the great long-term plan for this season that we would have 35 players in our squad as we faced the final 9 or 10 SPL fixtures.

You're more wise than that.

[matty_f]

No. The plan had been to muddle through with what we had.

You're not surely suggesting that it was always part of the great long-term plan for this season that we would have 35 players in our squad as we faced the final 9 or 10 SPL fixtures.

You're more wise than that.

Neither you npr I can say with any degree of authority whether it was always the plan to middle through or not, what I would say is that calderwood had ample opportunity to remedy the situation if he felt it was unworkable but chose not to, instead bringing in new faces.

I think there was most certainly a thought that we would, if needed, have a point in the season where we were over-subscribed with players as the cross over period happened.

I can only point to what has actually happened at the club as the basis for my conclusion, and the facts are that calderwood appears to have been just as happy with the situation as yogi was to such a degree that he has atoll only offered a small number of contracts, and that the club do have the number of players that we have.

The evidence would appear to favour my theory.

[BEEJ]

Neither you npr I can say with any degree of authority whether it was always the plan to middle through or not, what I would say is that calderwood had ample opportunity to remedy the situation if he felt it was unworkable but chose not to, instead bringing in new faces.
:greengrin Just what were CC's other options if he felt that many of the players available to him prior to January were not up to the job?


I think there was most certainly a thought that we would, if needed, have a point in the season where we were over-subscribed with players as the cross over period happened.
:hmmm:

OK. So last May / June Yogi took RP to one side and said, "I've got this cunning plan!.....:blah::blah:..... but at the end of the day it will mean that I will need to go well over my player budget for the season as we inevitably flirt with relegation-type form as we move into 2011."

"Sounds like a good plan." said RP.

:no way: Doubt it.

I can only point to what has actually happened at the club as the basis for my conclusion, and the facts are that calderwood appears to have been just as happy with the situation as yogi was to such a degree that he has atoll only offered a small number of contracts, and that the club do have the number of players that we have.

The evidence would appear to favour my theory.
Matty, CC has only offered a small number of new contracts because he was already pushing beyond the player budget for the season with what he had brought in.

In my view anyone who would sanction this season's contractual scenario as a glowing success story has all too readily swept the dross and misery of what we have had to endure under the carpet and is guilty of remarkably swift revisionism.

All just in my opinion, mind. :wink:

[matty_f]

:greengrin Just what were CC's other options if he felt that many of the players available to him prior to January were not up to the job?

The same as Yogi's - to let their contracts run down and then empty them.



:hmmm:

OK. So last May / June Yogi took RP to one side and said, "I've got this cunning plan!.....:blah::blah:..... but at the end of the day it will mean that I will need to go well over my player budget for the season as we inevitably flirt with relegation-type form as we move into 2011."

"Sounds like a good plan." said RP.

:no way: Doubt it.

Yogi said that he'd been in discussion with Petrie about the situation and they both knew what needed to happen. I doubt very much that he expected such a dramatic slide in performance, given that most of the same players had taken him to a 4th place finish the season before. IMHO, Yogi believed he could repeat that level this year, sadly neither he nor his players were up to it.




Matty, CC has only offered a small number of new contracts because he was already pushing beyond the player budget for the season with what he had brought in.

In my view anyone who would sanction this season's contractual scenario as a glowing success story has all too readily swept the dross and misery of what we have had to endure under the carpet and is guilty of remarkably swift revisionism.

All just in my opinion, mind. :wink:

I don't think anyone's saying it is a glowing success, however I am saying that it was/is the right thing to do.

Calderwood could have (and has) offered contracts to players he wanted to keep longer term. That he hasn't offered more is a strong indicator that he is relaxed about the situation, and still expects a level of performance from his players while they are on the payroll of Hibernian F.C.

One of the biggest points against the idea that it was a deliberate course of action, or to support the line that it was the wrong course of action, was that having so many people out of contract was destabilising the club and was leading to a number of players not being arsed while they played for us, yet McBride featured after being told he could leave, Nish was told he could leave in January and even trialled for another team, yet he's still featured. Rankin's been in the team, Stevenson, Stack, Smith, Miller, Riordan... why are they not destabilising things now?

The reason we were on such a slide had (IMHO) nothing to do with the contract situation, and everything to do with having a sub-standard squad of players.

We have brought in some better players, and CC has gotten better performances out of some players already here. That is what has turned fortunes, there are still a significant number of players due to leave, yet now this situation isn't impacting the team? I'd have thought it would have gotten worse as we neared the season's end because the players would be becoming increasingly anxious about their futures.

[mjhibby]

I suspect we'd have seen a similar amount of players in through the January window regardless, because we know the wage bill and squad size will be in a very manageable position come the summer. IIRC, Yogi said from early on that he'd rather be working with a smaller squad and had aimed to reduce the size of it. I very much expect CC to reduce the squad size significantly as well.



Would you rather have players who were taking the club down fast (under two different managers), or would you rather the club decided to take action and let their contracts run down? I know which I prefer.

Surely though the issue is that we should never have been in the position we were with so many out of contract at the same time.I think the effect that the loss of stokes has had has been underestimated and it looks like we sold stokes,bamba and zemmamma to cover this seasons inevitable losses.Lets be kind and put it down to experience but it was obvious from the turn of last year we were struggling big time and nobody at the club was able to arrest the slide.The sale of stokes only heightened how bad things were.
Its over with now and i for one is looking forward to the summer transfer window and next season with a clean slate and a great deal of anticipation.Hertz seem to be doing what we did and are coming back to the pack and well and inverness are struggling.Killie have done fantastic but whether mixu will be there is anybodys guess and i would think cc will definete expect top 6 next season and possibly top 4 if we get a good start.Thats always the good thing after a poor season in that you fully expect a better season next season and all the indications it certainly will be.
Hopefully this season will have given us realistic expectations for next season but another wee cup run would be nice colin.

[Westie1875]

We have brought in some better players, and CC has gotten better performances out of some players already here. That is what has turned fortunes, there are still a significant number of players due to leave, yet now this situation isn't impacting the team? I'd have thought it would have gotten worse as we neared the season's end because the players would be becoming increasingly anxious about their futures.

Because the majority of them aren't playing every week anymore.

[aberhibsfc]

Would keep the emboldened ones.
:agree:

[BEEJ]

The same as Yogi's - to let their contracts run down and then empty them.
That is not CC's decision to take. Neither was it Yogi's. It's RP's. So it was not another option to the Manager.


Yogi said that he'd been in discussion with Petrie about the situation and they both knew what needed to happen. I doubt very much that he expected such a dramatic slide in performance, given that most of the same players had taken him to a 4th place finish the season before. IMHO, Yogi believed he could repeat that level this year, sadly neither he nor his players were up to it.
By definition in the previous season most of these same players were staying with the club.


I don't think anyone's saying it is a glowing success, however I am saying that it was/is the right thing to do.
Despite what we've witnessed and had to endure as a club this year you would be happy for the club to repeat this season's contractual situation in another future season?

Instead I think the club should learn from its mistakes and not allow the same set of circumstances to arise again.


One of the biggest points to support the line that it was the wrong course of action, was that having so many people out of contract was destabilising the club and was leading to a number of players not being arsed while they played for us, yet McBride featured after being told he could leave, Nish was told he could leave in January and even trialled for another team, yet he's still featured. Rankin's been in the team, Stevenson, Stack, Smith, Miller, Riordan... why are they not destabilising things now?
How soon you forget. :greengrin

A team in an appalling run of form needs to pull together and fight for one another, recognising the common danger of relegation that they all face if they allow that slide to continue. Often its that spirit that marks the difference between a team performance and a display from a group of individuals who happen to be wearing the same strip.

There were times towards the end of 2010 when our first 11 that took to the field comprised as many as 7 players who had no future at the club beyond the end of this season. Not just one or two players, which would be the norm, but more than half the team.

You can argue about professionalism etc but if the bulk of a team have no apparent future with the club beyond the end of the season then they identify less and less with that club's predicament and focus all the more as individuals on their own particular circumstances. Due to the latter you might get an occasional cameo performance from a few but you will not get consistent team performances - such as the ones that we witnessed during the month of February.


The reason we were on such a slide had (IMHO) nothing to do with the contract situation, and everything to do with having a sub-standard squad of players.
I disagree. Obviously. :greengrin


We have brought in some better players, and CC has gotten better performances out of some players already here. That is what has turned fortunes,

there are still a significant number of players due to leave, yet now this situation isn't impacting the team? I'd have thought it would have gotten worse as we neared the season's end because the players would be becoming increasingly anxious about their futures.
The balance of the team now has been restored to one where the majority of the first 11 that takes to the field actually have a future with the club beyond June 2011. They have much more of a vested interest in ensuring our SPL survival.

As I say, it's about team dynamics.

I trust that the club has learned the lesson and we never venture this way again.

[matty_f]

That is not CC's decision to take. Neither was it Yogi's. It's RP's. So it was not another option to the Manager.

If CC chose to offer contracts, the Board would have done it.


By definition in the previous season most of these same players were staying with the club.

They were playing poorly from February, still with a season and a half on their contracts.

However, Yogi thought (I presume) that with the addition of Dickoh, De Graaf, and Hart (hope I never missed anyone) he'd be able to manage the situation and achieve a 4th place finish again. I certainly don't think he expected what he saw as a slump become the norm.



Despite what we've witnessed and had to endure as a club this year you would be happy for the club to repeat this season's contractual situation in another future season?

No, as stated before I hope we never find ourselves with such a poor squad again.


Instead I think the club should learn from its mistakes and not allow the same set of circumstances to arise again.


How soon you forget. :greengrin

A team in an appalling run of form needs to pull together and fight for one another, recognising the common danger of relegation that they all face if they allow that slide to continue. Often its that spirit that marks the difference between a team performance and a display from a group of individuals who happen to be wearing the same strip.

There were times towards the end of 2010 when our first 11 that took to the field comprised as many as 7 players who had no future at the club beyond the end of this season. Not just one or two players, which would be the norm, but more than half the team.
So what was the reason for the lack of performance from early last year, when players wouldn't have been expecting to have had contract talks yet?


You can argue about professionalism etc but if the bulk of a team have no apparent future with the club beyond the end of the season then they identify less and less with that club's predicament and focus all the more as individuals on their own particular circumstances. Due to the latter you might get an occasional cameo performance from a few but you will not get consistent team performances - such as the ones that we witnessed during the month of February.

As above. Motherwell away, finished 6-6 at the back of last season and saw one of the most abject displays of teamwork as we surrendered a huge lead, yet all the players knew they were lining up for Hibs next season, in fact, they had a tangible goal at that point - securing Europe and 4th place, yet we nearly chucked it.



I disagree. Obviously. :greengrin


The balance of the team now has been restored to one where the majority of the first 11 that takes to the field actually have a future with the club beyond June 2011. They have much more of a vested interest in ensuring our SPL survival.

As I say, it's about team dynamics.

I trust that the club has learned the lesson and we never venture this way again.

The club were always, always going to have the opportunity to redress the balance in the team in January. It wasn't as if someone dropped that transfer window in at the last minute and surprised us. We knew we could (and did) bolster the squad if need be.

[BEEJ]

They were playing poorly from February, still with a season and a half on their contracts.

However, Yogi thought (I presume) that with the addition of Dickoh, De Graaf, and Hart (hope I never missed anyone) he'd be able to manage the situation and achieve a 4th place finish again. I certainly don't think he expected what he saw as a slump become the norm.
I'm saying that the contract situation has been a major factor, NOT the only factor. :greengrin

You have to have a fairly inadequate squad to be on a poor run of form to begin with.


No, as stated before I hope we never find ourselves with such a poor squad again.

So what was the reason for the lack of performance from early last year, when players wouldn't have been expecting to have had contract talks yet?
As above.


The club were always, always going to have the opportunity to redress the balance in the team in January. It wasn't as if someone dropped that transfer window in at the last minute and surprised us. We knew we could (and did) bolster the squad if need be.
Indeed. But I cannot imagine for a minute that it was ever part of the plan for this season that we would amass a first team squad of 35 players (36 until just last week). Only by necessity has that position developed.

And think back to the state we were in mid-January. The players being brought in at that stage were to a large extent the last throw of the dice for this season. Much depended on those new recruits. Had we got that wrong the club could have been in serious difficulty.

An unduly risky strategy to adopt, all in all.

[matty_f]

I'm saying that the contract situation has been a major factor, NOT the only factor. :greengrin

You have to have a fairly inadequate squad to be on a poor run of form to begin with.


As above.


Indeed. But I cannot imagine for a minute that it was ever part of the plan for this season that we would amass a first team squad of 35 players (36 until just last week). Only by necessity has that position developed.

And think back to the state we were in mid-January. The players being brought in at that stage were to a large extent the last throw of the dice for this season. Much depended on those new recruits. Had we got that wrong the club could have been in serious difficulty.

An unduly risky strategy to adopt, all in all.

You don't think Yogi intended to strengthen in January? I think the club would have preferred not to have had to bring in the number of players that we did, with the view that we had good enough players to maintain top 6 this season (based on their standing from the season before). However, I think the contingency was always in place that if we needed to bring in more we could, knowing for definite (i.e. not relying on other clubs wanting to buy, or players accepting pay-offs) that we'd be cutting the squad size right back down a few months later.

IMHO, that wasn't a risky situation. The impact (on the performances and results) of having a number of players out of contract has only been hypothesised about on here, as far as I'm aware. Neither Calderwood or Yogi pointed to it as a factor in our performances, nor have the players (real fitbaw people ken what's gawn on etc :greengrin).

There is a very strong argument to suggest that having a number of players wanting to win new contracts should have led to improved performances (see accusations levelled at Liam Millar that his performances have improved as it's renewal time as support to that statement). Individually, you would reasonably expect any player hoping to stay at the club to be doing all they could to earn an extension - or at the very least put themselves in a favourable position in the eyes of potential new clubs - by putting in extra effort in training and games.

You certainly wouldn't expect (in large numbers, as well) the players to give up from February of the season before their contracts expired, and to continue with that attitude throughout the next season. Maybe one or two players you could understand, especially if they had something else lined up, but all of them? No, for me it's nonsense.

We hit such a low ebb because we had a squad filled by and large by ineffective players and a massive lack of character in the squad. We've signed (or brought back from loan) better players, and brought in better character and that's resulted in improved performances and results.

IMHO, we could have had all the squad (pre-January signings) on contracts to 2013, and we'd have been in the same position.

[BEEJ]

You don't think Yogi intended to strengthen in January? I think the club would have preferred not to have had to bring in the number of players that we did, with the view that we had good enough players to maintain top 6 this season (based on their standing from the season before).
Correct.


However, I think the contingency was always in place that if we needed to bring in more we could, knowing for definite (i.e. not relying on other clubs wanting to buy, or players accepting pay-offs) that we'd be cutting the squad size right back down a few months later.
The contingency to overspend is always there. Once you've done so it represents failure, certainly in RP's thinking.


IMHO, that wasn't a risky situation. The impact (on the performances and results) of having a number of players out of contract has only been hypothesised about on here, as far as I'm aware. Neither Calderwood or Yogi pointed to it as a factor in our performances, nor have the players (real fitbaw people ken what's gawn on etc :greengrin).
Well, of course, Yogi, wouldn't. He was apparently the chief architect of the contract situation so he'd be the last person to highlight it. And in order to highlight it he'd have to recognise it first! :greengrin

CC doesn't discuss these kinds of things, full stop.


Individually, you would reasonably expect any player hoping to stay at the club to be doing all they could to earn an extension - or at the very least put themselves in a favourable position in the eyes of potential new clubs - by putting in extra effort in training and games.
You summed it up in the first word. Individuals. Playing for themselves. Doing their utmost to the best of their ability to prove themselves worthy of another contract or whatever. But playing as individuals and less and less as a team.


You certainly wouldn't expect (in large numbers, as well) the players to give up from February of the season before their contracts expired, and to continue with that attitude throughout the next season. Maybe one or two players you could understand, especially if they had something else lined up, but all of them? No, for me it's nonsense.
It's not a question of 'giving up'. Anyone who's ever played in a team for a prolonged period of time, through bad times as well as good, will have the capacity to understand this point.

Matty, way, way back on post #14 you asked this question about the contract situation this season:


I wonder if people still think that it was such an outrageous situation to be in.

We're all feeling a bit happier about our lot compared to where we were in January. And most of us will be looking forward to seeing how the squad is reshaped in the summer.

But we have to learn from the experience of the route that we've taken this season. Not to do so would be folly. And, to me, that means we cannot allow the same set of contract circumstances to develop again.

We'll just have to agree to differ on this point. :wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Anyone who listened to the slavering erse that is/was Yogi needs certified. Forget the loser! :agree:

CC's the man! :thumbsup:

[Diclonius]

List updated.

[Hibernian Verse]

I'm sure I read that Duffy has been told he won't be kept on. Not sure if the guy that posted was reliable or not though as I can't remember who it was.

[Hibernian Verse]

Also, on the Raith Rovers website it says that McBride is only on loan?

[Diclonius]

The list of departures gets longer..

[Badge]

The list of departures gets longer..

??

[R'Albin]

The list of departures gets longer..

Why who else has left ?

[Diclonius]

Why who else has left ?

Smith and Trakys.

[Speedway]

It's a sad indictment of where we've been recently when you look at that list and think 'I don't mind if they all leave'

[brydekirk]

:agree:
I suspect we'd have seen a similar amount of players in through the January window regardless, because we know the wage bill and squad size will be in a very manageable position come the summer. IIRC, Yogi said from early on that he'd rather be working with a smaller squad and had aimed to reduce the size of it. I very much expect CC to reduce the squad size significantly as well.



Would you rather have players who were taking the club down fast (under two different managers), or would you rather the club decided to take action and let their contracts run down? I know which I prefer.

[IWasThere2016]

Yogi didnae know what he was doing - this 'plan' was an after thought (along with all his other havering pish) post emptying him IMHO. God, the thought of those interviews gi'es me the shakes!

Onwards and upwards with a proper manager - highly regarded and respected by players and Board alike :agree:

CC's the man! :thumbsup:

[R'Albin]

Was Dickoh told he can leave:confused:

[AllyF]

Was Dickoh told he can leave:confused:

I hope so.

I've always found him a bit of a liability, and his attempt to stop Hasselbaink on Sunday highlighted this.

If we search hard enough I think we could find a much stronger centre back, which should, in my opinion, be one of our top priorities.

[Hibernian Verse]

I hope so.

I've always found him a bit of a liability, and his attempt to stop Hasselbaink on Sunday highlighted this.

If we search hard enough I think we could find a much stronger centre back, which should, in my opinion, be one of our top priorities.

I reckon it depends what kind of wage he's on. I like him personally, and would like to keep him unless he's on 3k plus a week. If he is, then we can probably get someone better in. Can't see him going IMO, until we have someone else signed because CC won't want to be left with only Stephens to partner Hanlon. Not this season at least.

[Spike Mandela]

It will be a MASSIVE job to sign virtually a whole new squad and get them to gel and function as a team especially the level of players we are likely to be signing on our budget.

I know many players were performing poorly but Aberdeen had to sign virtually a whole new team last season and it hasn't been a roaring success and ultimately cost them their manager. Even Granpaw Broon han't really turned them around.

Hopefully CC has his main targets sorted out, approached early and brought on board quicly instead of us grasping about in the bargain bucket come the start of the next season.

[J-C]

It will be a MASSIVE job to sign virtually a whole new squad and get them to gel and function as a team especially the level of players we are likely to be signing on our budget.

I know many players were performing poorly but Aberdeen had to sign virtually a whole new team last season and it hasn't been a roaring success and ultimately cost them their manager. Even Granpaw Broon han't really turned them around.

Hopefully CC has his main targets sorted out, approached early and brought on board quicly instead of us grasping about in the bargain bucket come the start of the next season.

I don't think we're talking a whole team here, more like 5-6 players and a playing squad of around 20.

[Spike Mandela]

I don't think we're talking a whole team here, more like 5-6 players and a playing squad of around 20.

We probably brought in about 5 or 6 players last August surely the changes are more wholesale this time:confused:

[Speedway]

We probably brought in about 5 or 6 players last August surely the changes are more wholesale this time:confused:

Not when you'll be carrying far fewer players.

[WindyMiller]

It's a sad indictment of where we've been recently when you look at that list and think 'I don't mind if they all leave'


:agree:

It wouldn't bother me if CC cleared the lot, there's not one player I rate highly enough to care if they went.

[sahib]

Not when you'll be carrying far fewer players.

It is a bigger change when the total number is smaller.

[Spike Mandela]

I think it will be exciting to see so many new faces come in but think there is a real danger of ending up with a team of underperforming, erratic individual performers with little or no commitment to the cause like the charlatans at Aberdeen. Star man Hartley, surely, flop of the season.

However if CC gets the blend right it could be a great springboard to success for future years.

Interesting times.

[Big90inOz]

so many changes in one window will either be a disaster or the spring board we really require, if CC is the man for the job we could be in for exciting times :agree:

I really think a clear out is the only way forward, too many under achievers have been carried for far too long.

[Diclonius]

List updated.

[R'Albin]

List updated.
Didn't Byrne also get told he can leave?

Also I'm surprised cc hasn't made a decision on thicot yet, IMO he's not good enough.

[The_Sauz]

Steven Thicot........no new contract!
And I think we can say good bye to Stack & Windy too.

[The_Sauz]

From the BBC



Hibernian will allow top scorer Derek Riordan to leave Easter Road for nothing in the summer after the Scotland forward failed to agree a new contract. (Daily Express)
Bristol City winger Ivan Sproule says he and his agent will be talking with a number of clubs and hopes that former club Hibernian will be one of his options. (the Scotsman)
On-loan Bristol Rovers striker Darryl Duffy has been told he will not be offered a contract by Hibernian, while Steven Thicot, Colin Nish, Kevin McBride, John Rankin and Valdas Trakys will be released. (Daily Express)
Hibernian manager Colin Calderwood has given striker Ricardo Vaz Te and goalkeeper Jakub Divis four games to prove they are worth keeping at Easter Road next season. (the Sun)
Liam Miller and Hibernian are some way off agreeing a new contract for the midfielder, while manager Colin Calderwood still has to make a decision over injury-plagued goalkeeper Graham Stack. (Daily Express)
Hibernian are in signing talks with Kilmarnock midfielder Jamie Hamill, who is out of contract in the summer. (Daily Express)

[stokesmessiah]

From the BBC



Hibernian will allow top scorer Derek Riordan to leave Easter Road for nothing in the summer after the Scotland forward failed to agree a new contract. (Daily Express)
Bristol City winger Ivan Sproule says he and his agent will be talking with a number of clubs and hopes that former club Hibernian will be one of his options. (the Scotsman)
On-loan Bristol Rovers striker Darryl Duffy has been told he will not be offered a contract by Hibernian, while Steven Thicot, Colin Nish, Kevin McBride, John Rankin and Valdas Trakys will be released. (Daily Express)
Hibernian manager Colin Calderwood has given striker Ricardo Vaz Te and goalkeeper Jakub Divis four games to prove they are worth keeping at Easter Road next season. (the Sun)
Liam Miller and Hibernian are some way off agreeing a new contract for the midfielder, while manager Colin Calderwood still has to make a decision over injury-plagued goalkeeper Graham Stack. (Daily Express)
Hibernian are in signing talks with Kilmarnock midfielder Jamie Hamill, who is out of contract in the summer. (Daily Express)

Midfield academy now??

[millarco]

Duffy, Flynn, Bryne, Thicot, Rankin, McCann, Moyes, McBride, Nish and Trakys all confirmed as leaving.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110429/player-update_2262950_2349670

[R'Albin]

Midfield academy now??

He can also play right back I think ?

[Twiglet]

Duffy, Flynn, Bryne, Thicot, Rankin, McCann, Moyes, McBride, Nish and Trakys all confirmed as leaving.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110429/player-update_2262950_2349670

I notice Dickoh's not on the list.

[GreenCastle]

Here's the current status of the out of contract players we had at the start of the season or have now, be good to keep it updated.

Sol Bamba - sold
Kurtis Byrne
Lee Currie - released
Francis Dickoh
Darryl Duffy
Thomas Flynn - contract not renewed
Danny Galbraith - new deal until 2013
Chris Hogg - released
Kevin McBride - contract not renewed
Kevin McCann
Liam Miller
Ewan Moyes - contract not renewed
Colin Nish - contract not renewed
John Rankin - contract not renewed
Derek Riordan
Graeme Smith - released
Graham Stack
Lewis Stevenson - new deal till 2012
Steven Thicot
Richie Towell
Valdas Trakys - contract not renewed
Ricardo Vaz Te
Sean Welsh
Merouane Zemmama - sold

Needs another update :wink:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110429/player-update_2262950_2349670

[stokesmessiah]

Duffy, Flynn, Bryne, Thicot, Rankin, McCann, Moyes, McBride, Nish and Trakys all confirmed as leaving.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110429/player-update_2262950_2349670

Its going to make for an interesting transfer window seeing who is coming in???

[SneakersO'Toole]

Anyone else find it worrying that Graeme Smith isn't on that list of released players from the official site when according to the media he has been told he can go?

Surely he would be on the list if it were true?

[millarco]

Anyone else find it worrying that Graeme Smith isn't on that list of released players from the official site when according to the media he has been told he can go?

Surely he would be on the list if it were true?

Fear not, he had his own personal send-off a week or so ago.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110419/player-update_2262950_2342343

[Twiglet]

Anyone else find it worrying that Graeme Smith isn't on that list of released players from the official site when according to the media he has been told he can go?

Surely he would be on the list if it were true?

It was on the hibs site last week. Don't think there has been any official word on the people listed before now, apart from maybe McBride.

[scoopyboy]

It was on the hibs site last week. Don't think there has been any official word on the people listed before now, apart from maybe McBride.

The ten announced today plus Smith must be saving us in the region of £10000 a week.

If Deek and Miller go then probably £15000 a week.

Five players at £3000 a week would surely improve us no end or say four players at approaching £4000.

[At The Edge]

The ten announced today plus Smith must be saving us in the region of £10000 a week.

If Deek and Miller go then probably £15000 a week.

Five players at £3000 a week would surely improve us no end or say four players at approaching £4000.


:agree:

i was just out with the dog and thought to myself even if the Hibs players released were on a grand each thats 10000 a week, shirley we could get a couple of decent players in on that between them.

[Diclonius]

Needs another update :wink:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20110429/player-update_2262950_2349670

Done. :wink:

[Twiglet]

The ten announced today plus Smith must be saving us in the region of £10000 a week.

If Deek and Miller go then probably £15000 a week.

Five players at £3000 a week would surely improve us no end or say four players at approaching £4000.


That would be good, either way with or without Deeks and Miller.
If it's true that CC prefers a smaller squad, then hopefully he'll get in a few quality players rather than have the mantra of previous players which seemed to be get as many players in as possible, sometimes.

[scoopyboy]

Done. :wink:

Good thread this, congratulations squire.

[scoopyboy]

Done. :wink:

15 gone and although unlikely it could rise to 22.

[TrinityHibs]

Who is left? Either on loan or contract?

[scoopyboy]

Who is left? Either on loan or contract?

Go to first page of this thread for updated comprehensive list.

[GreenCastle]

Can someone put together the list of who is LEFT in our squad.

Miler, Vaz Te, Dickoh all have 4 games to prove themselves.

Riordan - don't think has been given a deal and will see what happens come summer - better or same offer then he may be gone.

Stack - think CC will wait until he is better - can't see anyone going for him when injured.

Towell - all depends on what the great unwashed say - but have a feeling he will be back :agree:

[Sir David Gray]

Can someone put together the list of who is LEFT in our squad.

Miler, Vaz Te, Dickoh all have 4 games to prove themselves.

Riordan - don't think has been given a deal and will see what happens come summer - better or same offer then he may be gone.

Stack - think CC will wait until he is better - can't see anyone going for him when injured.

Towell - all depends on what the great unwashed say - but have a feeling he will be back :agree:

Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sodje
Stack
Dickoh
Miller
Riordan
Vaz Te

If all the "maybes" stay then that would be 19 first team players for next season. If Calderwood sticks to his plans of having a squad of about 20, then we're only looking at around two or three new arrivals in the summer. If a couple of them leave then we're probably going to need four or five new players.

[scoopyboy]

Does anyone know if Sean Welsh has been offered a new deal?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sodje
Stack
Dickoh
Miller
Riordan
Vaz Te

If all the "maybes" stay then that would be 19 first team players for next season. If Calderwood sticks to his plans of having a squad of about 20, then we're only looking at around two or three new arrivals in the summer. If a couple of them leave then we're probably going to need four or five new players.

Dickoh wont be here next season as he "can't settle"

[Sir David Gray]

Dickoh wont be here next season as he "can't settle"

Ah right, ok.

I wasn't sure as he wasn't mentioned by Hibs as definitely leaving and he also wasn't mentioned at all on the BBC article from earlier tonight.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Ah right, ok.

I wasn't sure as he wasn't mentioned by Hibs as definitely leaving and he also wasn't mentioned at all on the BBC article from earlier tonight.

Think I read it somewhere recently, or was told..... Don't understand why he is being selected ahead of Stephens given he is offski:confused:

[Twiglet]

Think I read it somewhere recently, or was told..... Don't understand why he is being selected ahead of Stephens given he is offski:confused:


Maybe CC's hoping he can convince him to stay?

[GreenCastle]

Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sodje
Stack
Dickoh
Miller
Riordan
Vaz Te

If all the "maybes" stay then that would be 19 first team players for next season. If Calderwood sticks to his plans of having a squad of about 20, then we're only looking at around two or three new arrivals in the summer. If a couple of them leave then we're probably going to need four or five new players.

Thanks :thumbsup:

Looking at that list - CC will bring in a few players to make it 2 players in each position.

1 or 2 new GK's if Stack / Divis aren't up to it - looks like Brown stays.

If Towell stays then no right back - but he will bring in a left back to cover for Booth.

A central defender - hopefully with some experience to help the young guys - Dodds has been mentioned ?!!

A wide midfielder - I can think of only Galbriath at the moment we have - Sproule maybe plus another?

He needs to add some fire power up top - Depedning if Vaz Te stays or not he needs to get another goalscorer - are we still interested in Rooney ?

Players like Stevenson / Murray will be fine coming off the bench but we need some more quality in the starting 11 - some pace and some leadership.

[BEEJ]

Thanks for the list, Falkirk. There are a few extra players in the mix (added in red) ...


Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sodje
Stephens
Horner
Taggart
Smith
Crawford

Stack
Dickoh
Miller
Riordan
Vaz Te
Welsh


So already 19 players under contract for next season, with the futures of another six (seven if you include Towell) yet to be determined.

A few of the younger players may be farmed out on loan, thereby reducing squad numbers a bit. But if, say, three of the seven remaining 'question marks' sign contract extensions, it's hard to see more than three new signings coming in if that previously quoted squad size of CC's is to be believed.

Of course, there may be a few more youngsters to be promoted from this year's U-19s? Then again a few of the current 19 senior players under contract may find other clubs in the summer.

Time will tell.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Looking at the squad of players that are left for next season, for me it is going to take 2 or 3 genuine quality to get this squad challenging for 3rd.

We have some decent pro's (Brown, Sodje) and some exciting youth (Booth, Hanlon) but certainly no match winners or anyone that can turn a game.

I hope CC has some good players in mind because we need them if we want to avoid a repeat of this season.

[Speedway]

I notice Dickoh's not on the list.

Neither is Arpignon,!!! How does that guy do it?


:agree:

i was just out with the dog and thought to myself even if the Hibs players released were on a grand each thats 10000 a week, shirley we could get a couple of decent players in on that between them.

Unless the zero cup revenue, low crowds and zero player sales this summer means that CC ain't getting any cashback.

[Jim44]

Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sodje
Stack
Dickoh
Miller
Riordan
Vaz Te

If all the "maybes" stay then that would be 19 first team players for next season. If Calderwood sticks to his plans of having a squad of about 20, then we're only looking at around two or three new arrivals in the summer. If a couple of them leave then we're probably going to need four or five new players.

The thought of that list including the 'maybes' and the addition of only a couple of players is terrifying.:shocked:

[jacomo]

The thought of that list including the 'maybes' and the addition of only a couple of players is terrifying.:shocked:

:agree:

Can Hart or De Graaf really turn it around next season? If not, they need to go and direct (but more capable) replacements found.

We desperatey need some creativity too.

[Diclonius]

Updated the list again.

[Diclonius]

Another player gone, only four contracts left to sort out now.

[BEEJ]

Another player gone, only four contracts left to sort out now.
Only three contracts really. Towell is once again a Celtic player and a transfer target.

:wink:

[Sir David Gray]

Players definitely and/or possibly here next season (players in bold have a contract beyond this summer);

Divis
Brown
Stack
Hanlon
Booth
Hart
Stephens
Murray
Galbraith
Stevenson
Welsh
de Graaf
Wotherspoon
Thornhill
Scott
Palsson
Sproule
Sodje
Dickoh
Riordan
Vaz Te

If all the "maybes" stay then that would be 21 first team players for next season. If Calderwood sticks to his plans of having a squad of about 20, then we're only looking at around two or three new arrivals in the summer. If a couple of them leave then we're probably going to need four or five new players.

I've put Sean Welsh in the list of players who have a contract for next season and Liam Miller has been taken out. Graham Stack has been put in bold after he signed a new deal.

That means that we have 18 first team players who will definitely be under contract when the new season kicks off and it could possibly still be 21 with three players still to have their futures sorted out, one way or another.

[Spike Mandela]

I've put Sean Welsh in the list of players who have a contract for next season and Liam Miller has been taken out. Graham Stack has been put in bold after he signed a new deal.

That means that we have 17 first team players who will definitely be under contract when the new season kicks off and it could possibly still be 20.

Ehhhhhhhhhh Sproule:greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Ehhhhhhhhhh Sproule:greengrin

Woops. :hide:

How did I miss him out!? :confused:

Now amended!

[lucky]

Woops. :hide:

How did I miss him out!? :confused:

You were probably watch gay tv again

[Sir David Gray]

You were probably watch gay tv again

Yeah that'll be it. :agree:

[R'Albin]

You were probably watch gay tv again

What is this all about ? Is this a thing you and hibbyandy do together?:greengrin

[BEEJ]

I've put Sean Welsh in the list of players who have a contract for next season and Liam Miller has been taken out. Graham Stack has been put in bold after he signed a new deal.

That means that we have 18 first team players who will definitely be under contract when the new season kicks off and it could possibly still be 21 with three players still to have their futures sorted out, one way or another.
Still missing Horner, Taggart and Smith from that list (in addition to Sproule as pointed out above).

So we're currently sitting at 22, with the position of three more players remaining undetermined and with CC's stated ideal squad size as '24'.

[Sir David Gray]

Still missing Horner, Taggart and Smith from that list (in addition to Sproule as pointed out above).

So we're currently sitting at 22, with the position of three more players remaining undetermined and with CC's stated ideal squad size as '24'.

Yes but didn't Calderwood speak about having a squad of 20 available for selection and having a few of the younger players out on loan at other clubs?

I would imagine that the likes of Horner, Taggart and Smith will be the kind of players who will be going out on loan for a spell or two next year.

I think Sean Welsh will probably be staying with the club next season as part of the first team squad.

I believe we have 18 players who will be part of the squad next season, possibly 21 if Vaz Te, Riordan and Dickoh sign new deals and a further three younger players out on loan at lower league clubs.

[BEEJ]

Yes but didn't Calderwood speak about having a squad of 20 available for selection and having a few of the younger players out on loan at other clubs?

I would imagine that the likes of Horner, Taggart and Smith will be the kind of players who will be going out on loan for a spell or two next year.
Indeed.

Not for the first time, the difference between us lies in how the facts are presented. :greengrin