Census

[CRAZYHIBBY]

What are you doing with yours? should i fill it in or bin it?:confused:

[Pretty Boy]

What are you doing with yours? should i fill it in or bin it?:confused:

Fill it in, it doesn't take much time (especially if you do it online) and it's far less hassle in the long run.

[ArabHibee]

What are you doing with yours? should i fill it in or bin it?:confused:

Bin it.














(If you fancy a week in the pokey :greengrin)

[Sir David Gray]

If you've got a spare £1000 lying around to pay for a fine for not filling it in, then shove it in the bin.

[Killiehibbie]

Fill it in, it doesn't take much time (especially if you do it online) and it's far less hassle in the long run.Don't know about the less hassle, just tried to enter access code and was told 3 times it did not match my post code and i'm now locked out. Phoned helpline and they said it happens because it's too busy. Paper copy getting filled in.

[lapsedhibee]

If you've got a spare £1000 lying around to pay for a fine for not filling it in, then shove it in the bin.

Bin it, then bin the £1000 fine as well. :agree:

[Removed]

Bin it, then bin the £1000 fine as well. :agree:

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Bin it, then bin the £1000 fine as well. :agree:

I wouldn't try dodging a court fine unless you want your wages arrested or a stint in prison.

[lapsedhibee]

I wouldn't try dodging a court fine unless you want your wages arrested

Bin the census, bin the fine and then bin the arrest warrant. :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Bin the census, bin the fine and then bin the arrest warrant. :agree:

Might work.

I think i'll start doing that with all the inconveniences and irritants in my life, just stick them in the bin.

Bills? In the bin
Internal mail at work? In the bin
Hearts supporting cousin? In a skip

[lapsedhibee]

Might work.

I think i'll start doing that with all the inconveniences and irritants in my life, just stick them in the bin.

Bills? In the bin
Internal mail at work? In the bin
Hearts supporting cousin? In a skip

:agree: Got to be careful with the last one though, skip hirers are getting fussy about what's acceptable in a skip now. EU toxicity regulations and that.

[hibbytam]

Fill it in. Then a history student in 200 years time might read your entry.

[Sylar]

Interesting to read that the printing and collection of results for the census is being conducted by US defense contractor, Lockheed Martin.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2008/0828_lmuk-2011-census.html

As an American company, bound by American laws, does this not make our census data vulnerable, particularly considering the potentialities of our US Patriot act.

It has been discussed in the media already, citing parliamentary discussions about this very topic, yet the most solid answer was that "[MP's] are "fairly confident" there would be robust safeguards on the data".

Interesting to hear what the usual "anti-West" contingent on here make of this and if they feel they should be able to avoid completing it on moral grounds, seeing as Lockheed Martin provide most of the arsenal used for the US military.

[Jack]

IIRC with the £1000 fine would be a court order to complete the form. Not filling it in then is much more serious - judges get right humpty when folk dont do what they tell them.

[lapsedhibee]

IIRC with the £1000 fine would be a court order to complete the form. Not filling it in then is much more serious - judges get right humpty when folk dont do what they tell them.

Bin the form, the fine, the court order and the sheriff if he/she comes round.

[Beefster]

Interesting to read that the printing and collection of results for the census is being conducted by US defense contractor, Lockheed Martin.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2008/0828_lmuk-2011-census.html

As an American company, bound by American laws, does this not make our census data vulnerable, particularly considering the potentialities of our US Patriot act.

It has been discussed in the media already, citing parliamentary discussions about this very topic, yet the most solid answer was that "[MP's] are "fairly confident" there would be robust safeguards on the data".

Interesting to hear what the usual "anti-West" contingent on here make of this and if they feel they should be able to avoid completing it on moral grounds, seeing as Lockheed Martin provide most of the arsenal used for the US military.

That article doesn't mention Scotland so any idea who is doing ours?

[Removed]

That article doesn't mention Scotland so any idea who is doing ours?

http://www.caci.co.uk/212.aspx

[Betty Boop]

That article doesn't mention Scotland so any idea who is doing ours?

http://www.caci.co.uk/212.aspx

[Beefster]

http://www.caci.co.uk/212.aspx


http://www.caci.co.uk/212.aspx

Thanks. Not much better, to be honest. There must have been some way of keeping some of the business within Scotland.

[Jack]

Thanks. Not much better, to be honest. There must have been some way of keeping some of the business within Scotland.

With a contract that big government agencies must abide by European competition guidelines/laws. The reverse, of course, is also true when Scottish companies compete for European business.

[RyeSloan]

Thanks. Not much better, to be honest. There must have been some way of keeping some of the business within Scotland.

Why? Surely cost and efficiency is the key driver here.

Maybe a much more relevant a statement would be that surely there is some way of creating the correct business envirnment so Scottish companies can compete and win such contracts.

[Big Ed]

Why? Surely cost and efficiency is the key driver here.

Maybe a much more relevant a statement would be that surely there is some way of creating the correct business envirnment so Scottish companies can compete and win such contracts.

Any suggestions?

[CropleyWasGod]

Any suggestions?

Fiscal autonomy and lowering corporate tax rates?

[steve75]

everyone just remember to put jedi as ur religion!

we must be heard :wink:

[The_Exile]

everyone just remember to put jedi as ur religion!

we must be heard :wink:


http://www.yourenotajedi.com/

[hibbytam]

http://www.yourenotajedi.com/

That raises the question, where are the Jedi schools, or academies, as I believe they prefer to be called, temples and other paraphernalia of a religion. Surely they're in need of some serious government investment, because I can't think of one in the whole of the UK.

[RyeSloan]

Any suggestions?

Plenty....I've bored people with them on here plenty times over plenty of topics but in summary until we break the cycle of tax more/spend more/borrow more/waste more/government must do more/profit is bad/rich are bad we will continue to fail to produce enough world class companies to drive real and tangible wealth creation in this country.

The real answer to the Census though is to scrap it completely. There is much more effective and cheaper ways of getting this information without reverting to a 10 year snap shot largely completed by paper and pen.

[Jack]

Plenty....I've bored people with them on here plenty times over plenty of topics but in summary until we break the cycle of tax more/spend more/borrow more/waste more/government must do more/profit is bad/rich are bad we will continue to fail to produce enough world class companies to drive real and tangible wealth creation in this country.

The real answer to the Census though is to scrap it completely. There is much more effective and cheaper ways of getting this information without reverting to a 10 year snap shot largely completed by paper and pen.

What are these more effective and cheaper ways? I’m sure this tight fisted, and previous tight fisted, governments would be delighted to hear about them, so would other governments around the world. As I have said earlier the exchange of personal information between government departments is generally not allowed.

As for the paper … there is now the option to complete the form on line for those with internet access and for a large number of reasons not everyone has access, or chooses not to access the internet so paper is the only option for them.

[RyeSloan]

What are these more effective and cheaper ways? I’m sure this tight fisted, and previous tight fisted, governments would be delighted to hear about them, so would other governments around the world. As I have said earlier the exchange of personal information between government departments is generally not allowed.

As for the paper … there is now the option to complete the form on line for those with internet access and for a large number of reasons not everyone has access, or chooses not to access the internet so paper is the only option for them.

Effectively it's data mining the information that already exists across govermental and other organisations databases.

It's already used effectively in a number of countries (Sweden was one iirc) and provides much more up to date information that tends to be more accurate (not so many Jedi's) at a much lower cost.

Edit: Some more detail from an article published in The Economist:

A basic question facing any government is just how many people it is in charge of. Every tenth year since 1801 (with the exception of wartime 1941), the British state has set out to count its residents. The forms for the 2011 census began thudding onto the nation’s doormats on March 8th. Yet a combination of rising costs, increasing complexity and decreasing relevance mean that this year’s count may be the last.

The first censuses did little more than tick off the number of people living in a particular house. As the state’s responsibilities have expanded, however, so has its appetite for data, and each new census form is bulkier than the last.

Choosing which questions to ask is a delicate business. In theory, the better informed a government is, the better it can do its job. Census answers inform almost every aspect of government policy, from projecting population growth and writing budgets to planning road extensions and new towns.

But the government’s statisticians are acutely aware that people may not respond to questions that are seen as too intrusive—or may deliberately falsify their answers. An estimated 3m people failed to complete the 2001 census. Hundreds of thousands of others sabotaged a voluntary question about religion by claiming that they were Jedi, the bathrobe-wearing superheroes of the Star Wars films. This time around, a question asking immigrants how long they intend to remain has been criticised for sounding unwelcoming. In theory, falsifying information or ignoring the form carries a £1,000 fine, but in practice almost no one has to pay it.

There are other problems with the decennial count. Britain is an increasingly footloose place, which means that census data goes stale faster than ever. Local councils, whose budgets are based partly on census data, have long complained that a decade of high immigration has stretched services mercilessly as newcomers move in without extra funding for them from Whitehall.

That mix of public wariness and the decreasing lifespan of the information could spell doom for the traditional headcount. The rise of big, computerised databases means that it is possible to have a continuously-running “virtual census”, automatically sucking information from things like school enrolment, the electoral roll, tax records and perhaps even commercial transactions, all buttressed by limited, specific polling.

Not everyone welcomes the idea. Genealogists mourn the passing of a favourite source of data. Privacy advocates say that the decennial theatre of a census is a useful way to help define exactly how much the state has a right to know about its citizens.

But three powerful advantages commend the new approach (which was pioneered in Scandinavia) to governments. One is cost: the 2011 census is expected to cost around £480m, whereas a virtual census could be conducted for far less. A continuously running count will be more up to date than a once-a-decade snapshot. And a more subtle approach to information-gathering may irritate people less—and therefore yield more accurate data.

[Sudds_1]

I've not even had mine through the letterbox yet..........

........wonder if it's coz I'm in a brand new house and they don't know we exist. :confused:

[Jay]

I just got mine today - a woman came to the door. I needed to fill it in online as there are 6 of us and the forms only cater for 5. It took about 10 to 15 mins easy as pie.

[Jack]

Effectively it's data mining the information that already exists across govermental and other organisations databases.

It's already used effectively in a number of countries (Sweden was one iirc) and provides much more up to date information that tends to be more accurate (not so many Jedi's) at a much lower cost.

Edit: Some more detail from an article published in The Economist:

A basic question facing any government is just how many people it is in charge of. Every tenth year since 1801 (with the exception of wartime 1941), the British state has set out to count its residents. The forms for the 2011 census began thudding onto the nation’s doormats on March 8th. Yet a combination of rising costs, increasing complexity and decreasing relevance mean that this year’s count may be the last.

The first censuses did little more than tick off the number of people living in a particular house. As the state’s responsibilities have expanded, however, so has its appetite for data, and each new census form is bulkier than the last.

Choosing which questions to ask is a delicate business. In theory, the better informed a government is, the better it can do its job. Census answers inform almost every aspect of government policy, from projecting population growth and writing budgets to planning road extensions and new towns.

But the government’s statisticians are acutely aware that people may not respond to questions that are seen as too intrusive—or may deliberately falsify their answers. An estimated 3m people failed to complete the 2001 census. Hundreds of thousands of others sabotaged a voluntary question about religion by claiming that they were Jedi, the bathrobe-wearing superheroes of the Star Wars films. This time around, a question asking immigrants how long they intend to remain has been criticised for sounding unwelcoming. In theory, falsifying information or ignoring the form carries a £1,000 fine, but in practice almost no one has to pay it.

There are other problems with the decennial count. Britain is an increasingly footloose place, which means that census data goes stale faster than ever. Local councils, whose budgets are based partly on census data, have long complained that a decade of high immigration has stretched services mercilessly as newcomers move in without extra funding for them from Whitehall.

That mix of public wariness and the decreasing lifespan of the information could spell doom for the traditional headcount. The rise of big, computerised databases means that it is possible to have a continuously-running “virtual census”, automatically sucking information from things like school enrolment, the electoral roll, tax records and perhaps even commercial transactions, all buttressed by limited, specific polling.

Not everyone welcomes the idea. Genealogists mourn the passing of a favourite source of data. Privacy advocates say that the decennial theatre of a census is a useful way to help define exactly how much the state has a right to know about its citizens.

But three powerful advantages commend the new approach (which was pioneered in Scandinavia) to governments. One is cost: the 2011 census is expected to cost around £480m, whereas a virtual census could be conducted for far less. A continuously running count will be more up to date than a once-a-decade snapshot. And a more subtle approach to information-gathering may irritate people less—and therefore yield more accurate data.

TBF there's not a lot I would disagree with in that, a lot of it makes sense.

I have however, despite working for government, been at the receiving end of some other government departments refusal to share even the most basic of information.

Maybe Sweden is different in the way its privacy laws have been formed over the years but the privacy advocates, to use the term in your quote, would make it almost impossible to achieve the free(ish) flow of personal data between departments here in the UK. It would take a step change in policy, and I suspect a very long time, before data extraction of similar material to that which is being gathered at the moment could be achieved.

I’m not sure if the £480m quoted is for the UK or just possibly England; even if its England it works out at less than 70p per person, per year; one major hospital every 30 years and I’m not sure how many census could be held for the price of a nuclear deterrent. Doesn’t sound that much???

[Greentinted]

I just got mine today - a woman came to the door. I needed to fill it in online as there are 6 of us and the forms only cater for 5. It took about 10 to 15 mins easy as pie.

How would this pan out if a family of 6 (or more) had no internet access? Would they march you down to the local library or something similar? :confused:

Serious question and not a personal slight on you Mrs S.

[richard_pitts]

How would this pan out if a family of 6 (or more) had no internet access? Would they march you down to the local library or something similar? :confused:

Serious question and not a personal slight on you Mrs S.

The enumerator (I am one - I need a job), gets an additional person(s) form and you fill that out too. Less hassle to do it online though :agree:

[Jay]

How would this pan out if a family of 6 (or more) had no internet access? Would they march you down to the local library or something similar? :confused:

Serious question and not a personal slight on you Mrs S.

:greengrin Cant see that poor wee auld woman marching me and my boys anywhere. As richard_pitts said there was another form I would have been given if I didnt have internet access.

[steakbake]

Had a skim through it. It's very easy. All you need is a pen, half a wit and an idea of what your name is and what you do for a living and you're set.

[Removed]

Had a skim through it. It's very easy. All you need is a pen, half a wit and an idea of what your name is and what you do for a living and you're set.

Unfortunately that's a fair proportion of population ****ed then :agree:

[New Corrie]

A dear friend of mine has been out delivering the census forms and has really had her eyes opened as to how much trash there actually is in Edinburgh. She thought this job would be ideal to help towards a family holiday, but wishes she'd never got involved. The amount of aggression/abuse that she's been met with on door step just confirms what most of us already know..........we are getting taken over by the chav classes! Drink/Drug fuelled nasal scroungers with devil dogs and all the usual add ons, shouting abuse at some poor soul out trying to earn an extra few bob.

As for those wanting to bin the census, bin away, it's not as if in a criminal friendly country like Scotland they are going to do anything about it.

Is there anyone left out there who still actually cares?

[steakbake]

A dear friend of mine has been out delivering the census forms and has really had her eyes opened as to how much trash there actually is in Edinburgh. She thought this job would be ideal to help towards a family holiday, but wishes she'd never got involved. The amount of aggression/abuse that she's been met with on door step just confirms what most of us already know..........we are getting taken over by the chav classes! Drink/Drug fuelled nasal scroungers with devil dogs and all the usual add ons, shouting abuse at some poor soul out trying to earn an extra few bob.

As for those wanting to bin the census, bin away, it's not as if in a criminal friendly country like Scotland they are going to do anything about it.

Is there anyone left out there who still actually cares?

Cheer up, Corrie. The clocks go forward next week.

[HibeeB]

Cheer up, Corrie. The clocks go back next week.

Forward.

The clocks go forward this month.

That'll really put NC on a downer after getting his hopes up :rolleyes:

[New Corrie]

Cheer up, Corrie. The clocks go back next week.

Even more daylight to witness the "Death of Scotland":greengrin

I must cheer up
I must cheer up

[Greentinted]

The enumerator (I am one - I need a job), gets an additional person(s) form and you fill that out too. Less hassle to do it online though :agree:


:greengrin Cant see that poor wee auld woman marching me and my boys anywhere. As richard_pitts said there was another form I would have been given if I didnt have internet access.

:thumbsup: Learn something new every day. Cheers.

[richard_pitts]

A dear friend of mine has been out delivering the census forms and has really had her eyes opened as to how much trash there actually is in Edinburgh. She thought this job would be ideal to help towards a family holiday, but wishes she'd never got involved. The amount of aggression/abuse that she's been met with on door step just confirms what most of us already know..........we are getting taken over by the chav classes! Drink/Drug fuelled nasal scroungers with devil dogs and all the usual add ons, shouting abuse at some poor soul out trying to earn an extra few bob.

As for those wanting to bin the census, bin away, it's not as if in a criminal friendly country like Scotland they are going to do anything about it.

Is there anyone left out there who still actually cares?

I've been doing rural Perthshire. Worst I got was an angry goose (pecked lumps out my car's bumper, they are vicious little bu**ers) and miles of farm roads - took me three hours to do ten farms :greengrin Also met Colin Montgomerie's wife and a couple of Lords. I think I got the better territory Corrie :aok:

[Beefster]

I've been doing rural Perthshire. Worst I got was an angry goose (pecked lumps out my car's bumper, they are vicious little bu**ers) and miles of farm roads - took me three hours to do ten farms :greengrin Also met Colin Montgomerie's wife and a couple of Lords. I think I got the better territory Corrie :aok:

My uncle used to keep 2 geese to guard a pigeon coop. Vicious ****ers and way more effective than any guard dog.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Do these things not just get sent out by royal mail??

[heretoday]

Do these things not just get sent out by royal mail??

We were given our one at the door by an enumerator. The form took about ten minutes to fill in.

I was a census enumerator back in 1981 and I recall I had to go round and physically collect the completed forms from all the households/businesses in Albert St - my "beat".

I had to help fill in the questionaire of quite a few citizens myself as it was a wee bit trickier than the current one.

UK life hasn't got a lot better since 1981 so I don't see the point of the thing really.

[New Corrie]

I've been doing rural Perthshire. Worst I got was an angry goose (pecked lumps out my car's bumper, they are vicious little bu**ers) and miles of farm roads - took me three hours to do ten farms :greengrin Also met Colin Montgomerie's wife and a couple of Lords. I think I got the better territory Corrie :aok:


Sounds quite a good number Richard, especially in this weather. I wonder if the poor sod doing Ardrossan in the rain gets paid the same!

[Flynn]

I plan on filling it in and making lots of accidental errors so these forms can't be scanned and must be filled in manually causing Lockheed Martin expense and grief. I can't believe our government gave this contract for collecting census data to one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. WTF. I implore everyone to read this link, making errors is fun:

http://www.peacenewslog.info/2011/03/how-to-fill-in-your-census-form-without-lockheed-martin-profiting-long-version/

Power to the people! ;-) :agree:

[Removed]

I plan on filling it in and making lots of accidental errors so these forms can't be scanned and must be filled in manually causing Lockheed Martin expense and grief. I can't believe our government gave this contract for collecting census data to one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. WTF. I implore everyone to read this link, making errors is fun:

I don't think that Lockheed Martin have anything to do with the Scottish census

[Nuitdelune]

Just done it online and no bother at all unless you have all your relatives living with you. Remember to put in Jedi though

[snooky]

Bin the census, bin the fine and then bin the arrest warrant. :agree:

Then everybody will be after you cause you're Bin Laden :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

Then everybody will be after you cause you're Bin Laden :wink:

Who's still at large, proving conclusively that the strategy works. :agree:

[GhostofBolivar]

I don't think that Lockheed Martin have anything to do with the Scottish census

Do it anyway. Best to be on the safe side.

[Jones28]

Fill it in :agree:

Less hassle and, may I ask, why not fill it in?

[Removed]

Do it anyway. Best to be on the safe side.

And why is that relevant to my post :confused:

[GhostofBolivar]

I don't think that Lockheed Martin have anything to do with the Scottish census

Nope. They don't. Ours is being administered by CACI International - who are a different US defence contractor who provided 'interrogation services' for the US military at Abu Ghraib.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're not nice people.

http://www.sacc.org.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=605&catid=29

[ForeverHibs93]

Who's still at large, proving conclusively that the strategy works. :agree:
:faf:
If you can put Jedi surely you could put Hibs as your religion:greengrin?

[lapsedhibee]

Less hassle and, may I ask, why not fill it in?

I object to one or two of the questions, not because they're intrusive, but because they seem to have been devised by tumshies. For example, the one about whether you speak/read/write Scots. Whae kens how to answer that? Just because I know a handful of Scots words, does that qualify me as a speaker/reader/writer? I'd say no, because when I'm in the company of genuine Scots speakers, they're hard to follow. I don't see why I should have to ca' canny like this merely filling in a government form, so binning remains an option. :wink:

[Greentinted]

Fill it in :agree:

Less hassle and, may I ask, why not fill it in?

Not being deliberately abstruse but some people get a tad aggrieved at having their lives intruded on to collect and record personal details which can go anywhere? We should have the choice as to whom we surrender any of our personal information. Just because the government say do it, we should do it? Nah, think not!

[Jack]

Not being deliberately abstruse but some people get a tad aggrieved at having their lives intruded on to collect and record personal details which can go anywhere? We should have the choice as to whom we surrender any of our personal information. Just because the government say do it, we should do it? Nah, think not!

Personal details go nowhere. All stats are amalgamated so that no individual can be identified when the results are published.

[Greentinted]

Personal details go nowhere. All stats are amalgamated so that no individual can be identified when the results are published.

I hear that Jack and fair play, but how do I KNOW that?
Its not like any information (highly guarded while it may well have been) has been misplaced before.
Maybe I'm just an old cynic, but no one has the right, under any circumstances, in a so-called democracy to DEMAND anybody surrender personal information under pain of a large financial sanction. Maybe they should get on with dealing with the real issues.

[Jack]

I hear that Jack and fair play, but how do I KNOW that?
Its not like any information (highly guarded while it may well have been) has been misplaced before.
Maybe I'm just an old cynic, but no one has the right, under any circumstances, in a so-called democracy to DEMAND anybody surrender personal information under pain of a large financial sanction. Maybe they should get on with dealing with the real issues.

Cause I’ve just telt ye! :na na: :greengrin

I was very involved with the Census in 1991. All I can say relates to then but I was impressed by the security. If then has been upgraded to today’s equivalent, and it will have, then I have absolutely no qualms about personal information.

As for the other I wont try and explain that, because I don't know how best to, beyond what has already been said.

[Greentinted]

Cause I’ve just telt ye! :na na: :greengrin

I was very involved with the Census in 1991. All I can say relates to then but I was impressed by the security. If then has been upgraded to today’s equivalent, and it will have, then I have absolutely no qualms about personal information.

As for the other I wont try and explain that, because I don't know how best to, beyond what has already been said.

Fair enough, thats me telt (and I did send it off guv, honest...:whistle:) :greengrin

[Jack]

Fair enough, thats me telt (and I did send it off guv, honest...:whistle:) :greengrin

Well done. :-)

[Beefster]

Suggestions that the UK Census data has been taken by hackers and will be available online soon. Presumably Scotland is not affected seeing as Lockheed Martin didn't do ours.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/uk_census_lost/

Disaster, if LulzSec aren't bull****ting.

[Wembley67]

Suggestions that the UK Census data has been taken by hackers and will be available online soon. Presumably Scotland is not affected seeing as Lockheed Martin didn't do ours.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/uk_census_lost/

Disaster, if LulzSec aren't bull****ting.

That would be up there with one of the ultimate **** ups of all time! And as you say and absolute disaster.

I think they are just telling a porkie though.