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View Full Version : Duke of York's pal was going to buy the cabbage! (Rowland)



Dan Sarf
13-03-2011, 01:10 AM
From an article about the Prince's latest financial shenanigans in today's Sunday Telegraph...

Mr Rowland, who is worth £730 million, making him Britain’s 25th richest person, was due to become Tory Party treasurer last year but quit before he took up the post after damaging disclosures about his business affairs.
The 65 year-old was once accused of “looting” millions of dollars from a US company he had bought and which should have been spent on an environmental clear-up operation. Mr Rowland’s representatives said such claims were “false and unsubstantiated”.
He was accused of being “shady” in Parliament after a deal to buy Hibernian football club in Scotland turned sour.




:confused: I don't remember that! Did we know about it? (Apologies if I'm the only one who missed the story at the time.)

Dan Sarf
13-03-2011, 01:12 AM
I meant the Duke of PORK'S pal, obviously. Damn this cheap Chianti, it's stronger than you think.

Shrekko
13-03-2011, 02:42 AM
I meant the Duke of PORK'S pal, obviously. Damn this cheap Chianti, it's stronger than you think.

He loaned David Duff money to buy Hibs and part of the deal was that he received a big chunk of the shares in Hibs. He wanted to sell them to Mercer when he tried to take us over.

givescotlandfreedom
13-03-2011, 05:28 AM
Aa typical poisonous Tory. Thank God we avoided his sort or we'd be well dead.

Hal Jordan
13-03-2011, 07:42 AM
As I recall, he received a ****load of shares in the club in lieu of the loan to Duff, and as part of that deal saddled us with a bunch of loss-making hotels in the south of England, which Duff tried to imply was an investment that would bring cash into the club like nobody's business.
At the time of the Mercer bid, Rowland's ex-wife refused to sell her shares to spite him, which effectively saved us, as well as David Duff and Jim Gray showing a bit of integrity (just in time) by doing the same. Then along came Sir Tom.:not worth
:flag:

Dan Sarf
13-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Thanks for the updates.

And thank you, Sir Tom :hibees

Phil D. Rolls
13-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Aa typical poisonous Tory. Thank God we avoided his sort or we'd be well dead.

If only we had avoided him. We were nearly dead, and it's a lesson on who we should trust with the club in future. (Anti Petrie brigade take note).

basehibby
13-03-2011, 12:01 PM
From an article about the Prince's latest financial shenanigans in today's Sunday Telegraph...

Mr Rowland, who is worth £730 million, making him Britain’s 25th richest person, was due to become Tory Party treasurer last year but quit before he took up the post after damaging disclosures about his business affairs.
The 65 year-old was once accused of “looting” millions of dollars from a US company he had bought and which should have been spent on an environmental clear-up operation. Mr Rowland’s representatives said such claims were “false and unsubstantiated”.
He was accused of being “shady” in Parliament after a deal to buy Hibernian football club in Scotland turned sour.




:confused: I don't remember that! Did we know about it? (Apologies if I'm the only one who missed the story at the time.)

I remember clearly that Rowland was every bit as much a villain of the piece as anyone else - the greedy **** would have been quite happy to sell our club into oblivion just so as he could make a nice wee profit on his shares.
If he'd succeeded I would have wanted him dead every bit as much as Mercer. Duff and Grey to their credit refused to sell and were sued by Rowland as a result IIRC - about the only thing they could hold their heads up for during the whole sorry episode.

Keith_M
13-03-2011, 01:22 PM
I'm glad this was brought up because I'd like to remind all those who sing the Mercer song that Rowland was the real villian in the piece.

Mercer was a Bawbag, but was doing what he did in his own club's interests (however misguided). Rowland, IMHO, was even worse as he was only ever interested in making yet more money.

Highest contributor to the Tory Party AND total crook. Makes you think...

sleeping giant
13-03-2011, 01:50 PM
The team that wouldn't die :not worth

Phil D. Rolls
13-03-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm glad this was brought up because I'd like to remind all those who sing the Mercer song that Rowland was the real villian in the piece.

Mercer was a Bawbag, but was doing what he did in his own club's interests (however misguided). Rowland, IMHO, was even worse as he was only ever interested in making yet more money.

Highest contributor to the Tory Party AND total crook. Makes you think...

I see it differently. Mercer was an egotistical little toley, who had no love for football, other than the fact that it made him into somebody people took notice of. He loved to play the pantomime villain, yet his idea of fun actually hurt other people badly.

His number plate was XX1 (double cross). Anybody who thinks it is funny to cheat other people is beneath contempt.

Rowlands, on the other hand, never claimed to have a love for football. He was only in it for the money. Yes, he was a shyster, but people who are taken in by a shyster have to look hard at themselves.

--------
13-03-2011, 04:54 PM
As I recall, he received a ****load of shares in the club in lieu of the loan to Duff, and as part of that deal saddled us with a bunch of loss-making hotels in the south of England, which Duff tried to imply was an investment that would bring cash into the club like nobody's business.
At the time of the Mercer bid, Rowland's ex-wife refused to sell her shares to spite him, which effectively saved us, as well as David Duff and Jim Gray showing a bit of integrity (just in time) by doing the same. Then along came Sir Tom.:not worth
:flag:


I don't think iot was "showing integrity" as much as "realising they were dead men" if they sold out.

The lynch-mob was getting bigger and angrier by the minute, IIRC.

blackpoolhibs
13-03-2011, 05:02 PM
I'm glad this was brought up because I'd like to remind all those who sing the Mercer song that Rowland was the real villian in the piece.

Mercer was a Bawbag, but was doing what he did in his own club's interests (however misguided). Rowland, IMHO, was even worse as he was only ever interested in making yet more money.

Highest contributor to the Tory Party AND total crook. Makes you think...

Without mercer there was no takeover. I find him fully responsible, Rowlands had no idea what he was getting into. Mercer did. He's in the best place for **** like him.

Phil D. Rolls
13-03-2011, 05:10 PM
I don't think iot was "showing integrity" as much as "realising they were dead men" if they sold out.

The lynch-mob was getting bigger and angrier by the minute, IIRC.

Indeed, the events surrounding that take-over bid would surely make compelling drama. Life would have been very difficult for Duff and Gray. It certainly was for Mercer, and I reckon he spent the rest of his days watching his back.

ancient hibee
13-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Mercer of course actually kept us alive-if he hadn't come in on a takeover we would have imploded and disappear.He helped rally support against him which showed he was nowhere near the top businessman he thought he was.If he'd done nothing he would have achieved his objective.

New Corrie
13-03-2011, 09:51 PM
Aa typical poisonous Tory. Thank God we avoided his sort or we'd be well dead.


And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

johnrebus
14-03-2011, 08:58 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

Please explain the bit in bold?

:dunno:

Phil D. Rolls
14-03-2011, 10:33 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

Yeah, Farmer and Mercer are just the same. :rolleyes:

basehibby
14-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Without mercer there was no takeover. I find him fully responsible, Rowlands had no idea what he was getting into. Mercer did. He's in the best place for **** like him.

That bit in bold is nonsense - Rowland knew exactly what he was doing and showed an utter contempt for all us Hibees which was beyond belief - Mercer was known to be an unfriendly power so to speak where as Rowland as partial owner of Hibs was in a position of trust which he was just desparate to betray for the sake of lining his pockets - an utterly amoral beast of an individual - sooner he joins Wallet 6 feet under the better IMO - hopefully in a slow and painful manner.

blackpoolhibs
14-03-2011, 01:59 PM
That bit in bold is nonsense - Rowland knew exactly what he was doing and showed an utter contempt for all us Hibees which was beyond belief - Mercer was known to be an unfriendly power so to speak where as Rowland as partial owner of Hibs was in a position of trust which he was just desparate to betray for the sake of lining his pockets - an utterly amoral beast of an individual - sooner he joins Wallet 6 feet under the better IMO - hopefully in a slow and painful manner.

I'm not so sure he did. I dont for one minute think he knew how we would react as a support? He would have bought and sold shares in all sorts of things, none that would create a backlash like Hibs fc would.

I agree all he wanted was to line his pockets, but he'd have been just as desperate if it was chocolate or bin bags.

So again, I don't think he knew what he was getting into and what the repercussions would be?

camhibby1
14-03-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm not so sure he did. I dont for one minute think he knew how we would react as a support? He would have bought and sold shares in all sorts of things, none that would create a backlash like Hibs fc would.

I agree all he wanted was to line his pockets, but he'd have been just as desperate if it was chocolate or bin bags.

So again, I don't think he knew what he was getting into and what the repercussions would be?

Don't you believe it - Rowland knew precisely what he was doing - I worked in the Stock Exchange in both Glasgow and London in the late 60's until 1979 and the man's name was poison. Time and again he hoodwinked good honest people and had he not fled the country when he did he might well have ended up in you know where. Totally odious and untrustworthy. He knew alright.

blackpoolhibs
14-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Don't you believe it - Rowland knew precisely what he was doing - I worked in the Stock Exchange in both Glasgow and London in the late 60's until 1979 and the man's name was poison. Time and again he hoodwinked good honest people and had he not fled the country when he did he might well have ended up in you know where. Totally odious and untrustworthy. He knew alright.

I understand he is a nasty piece of work, and he did not care one jot who he screwed. i just wonder how committed he'd have been, had he found a bomb under his car, or was attacked in the street. As that would have happened had this gone through.

thebakerboy
14-03-2011, 06:23 PM
At the time of the Rowland business I was considering buying some shares in the deal that was on offer. A few weeks before the offer closed I was going on holiday and in the pocket on the plane someone had left a copy of the Financial Times open at an article about Rowland. After reading it I told my wife to pick a watch in the duty free and I did the same and never bought the shares and have never regretted it.:hibees

Diclonius
14-03-2011, 06:30 PM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

Isn't Farmer SNP?

fatbloke
15-03-2011, 12:44 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

IMHO - One of the most ill informed posts I have seen for a very long time on here, what a crock o 5hit. Do us a favour stay away from the keyboard for chrissakes. Posts like yours hurt my eyes.:rolleyes:

DarlingtonHibee
15-03-2011, 07:59 AM
IMHO - One of the most ill informed posts I have seen for a very long time on here, what a crock o 5hit. Do us a favour stay away from the keyboard for chrissakes. Posts like yours hurt my eyes.:rolleyes:

:top marks

The Falcon
15-03-2011, 08:08 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?


There's some nonsense posted on here. There's some utter pash posted on here. But congratulations are in order New Corrie as you have just taken it to a whole new level. :applause:

basehibby
15-03-2011, 08:33 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

Do you really need an explanation??? :doh:

In case it escaped your attention Rowland was desparate to sell out to Mercer and thus deliver Hibs into extinction.

Farmer on the other hand saved the club from oblivion and has overseen it's transformation from a ramshackle club on the verge of liquidation to a viable business that can stand on it's own two feet.

The difference is stark and blindingly obvious - one is a lowlife who would happilly sell his granny into prostitution - the other a man of principal who has seen through his promises to us with skill and dedication to leave the club in as good shape as it has ever been.

Even if Farmer HAD made shed loads of cash out of Hibs (something I am quite sceptical about), well, it would be a price worth paying for what he has delivered.

I still can't believe the contention in your dumb assed post that there's no difference between Farmer and Rowland - you deserve another shedload of these... :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:.......

Phil D. Rolls
15-03-2011, 08:37 AM
That bit in bold is nonsense - Rowland knew exactly what he was doing and showed an utter contempt for all us Hibees which was beyond belief - Mercer was known to be an unfriendly power so to speak where as Rowland as partial owner of Hibs was in a position of trust which he was just desparate to betray for the sake of lining his pockets - an utterly amoral beast of an individual - sooner he joins Wallet 6 feet under the better IMO - hopefully in a slow and painful manner.

I think that's in pretty poor taste.

bighairyfaeleith
15-03-2011, 08:45 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

If anyone else posted that I would be surprised, possibly shocked. However.....

basehibby
15-03-2011, 09:45 AM
I think that's in pretty poor taste.

Very fitting of the man it was aimed at then

New Corrie
15-03-2011, 10:26 AM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

Twa Cairpets
15-03-2011, 10:34 AM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

Even if there were - and my recollection suggests that what you've typed is largely steaming keech - the bit in bold above is the important point.

The takeover was incredibly close to going through, and your revisionist history is baffling, pointless and wrong.

basehibby
15-03-2011, 10:39 AM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

Kenny Waugh had his chance and took the club nowhere - Farmer has made a real difference and given the club a platform to build on into the future - something he promised to do from the start and has delivered on in impressive style.

Anyway - noone is trying to make out Farmer to be a Saint (papal knight will do fine thanks :wink:) - it's YOU who is spouting drivel by asserting that he is no better than the pondlife that is David Rowland - being a businessman does not necessitate being an amoral shyster any more than being a soldier makes you a war criminal - it's a matter of individual choice.

Farmer has taken Hibs forward during his ownership while Rowland wanted to send us to hell in a handcart - to me there's no comparison, but then there's none so blind as those that refuse to see.

DarlingtonHibee
15-03-2011, 10:54 AM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

What money has STF made from Hibs ?

Phil D. Rolls
15-03-2011, 10:56 AM
[B][B]

What money has STF made from Hibs ?

*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

DarlingtonHibee
15-03-2011, 11:17 AM
*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

He SAVED our club - I have no issue with him making any profit, but let me assure you its been more hassle to STF than profit.

--------
15-03-2011, 11:32 AM
And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?

Th club's still in existence, for one thing. It would have disappeared for good if Rowland and Mercer had had their way.

The club is also financially sound; long-term plans for a new stadium are now complete; we have the training-ground at East Mains and we're in no danger of going to the wall - unlike a few other SPL teams I could mention...

IIRC Sir Tom's last few political contributions have been to the SNP, and I have to agree with one or two other posters that to compare STF to the likes of Rowland and Mercer is absolute rubbish.

STF made promises and formulated plans for the future - all of which he's fulfilled. What value would you place on Smirker's word? Or Rowland's?

Andy74
15-03-2011, 11:46 AM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

Being a bigot doesn't half have some funny side effects. If Sir Tom was a proddie there may be a slightly different slant to your view eh?

Phil D. Rolls
15-03-2011, 11:55 AM
He SAVED our club - I have no issue with him making any profit, but let me assure you its been more hassle to STF than profit.

I'm sure that's true. I always think of Liam Gallacher telling the Man City fans to bolt when they wanted him to invest in the team. "What and have scallies putting my windows in when the results go badly?"


Being a bigot doesn't half have some funny side effects. If Sir Tom was a proddie there may be a slightly different slant to your view eh?

A sad diversion in an already pointless argument.

Peevemor
15-03-2011, 12:19 PM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

You seem to be quite good at this "ill informed" stuff. Kenny Waugh snr would never have got the backing of the bank carry out the redevelopment that's taken place. STF has also made numerous, personal interest free loans to the club over the years to keep things ticking over. Yes he has made money - on paper, in that Easter Road together with East Mains is worth something, but that depends on whether he wants to sell and if their is someone willing to pay.

The construction of the East stand, for example, cost the club, what £4m?, but it didn't increase it's value - the land's worth what the land's worth, with or without the shiny new stands.




[B][B]

What money has STF made from Hibs ?


*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

:confused: STF tried to buy the butterfly to carry out a development which would have funded the new East stand. The Council sold the land, which was advertised as unsuitable for housing, to a housing development company which then fell apart before a spade was lifted in anger. Nothing whatsiever to do with Hibs or Sir Tom.

sahib
15-03-2011, 01:16 PM
You seem to be quite good at this "ill informed" stuff. Kenny Waugh snr would never have got the backing of the bank carry out the redevelopment that's taken place. STF has also made numerous, personal interest free loans to the club over the years to keep things ticking over. Yes he has made money - on paper, in that Easter Road together with East Mains is worth something, but that depends on whether he wants to sell and if their is someone willing to pay.

The construction of the East stand, for example, cost the club, what £4m?, but it didn't increase it's value - the land's worth what the land's worth, with or without the shiny new stands.







:confused: STF tried to buy the butterfly to carry out a development which would have funded the new East stand. The Council sold the land, which was advertised as unsuitable for housing, to a housing development company which then fell apart before a spade was lifted in anger. Nothing whatsiever to do with Hibs or Sir Tom.

When I saw the headlines about the "butterfly" at the time, I half thought the proposed development land was the habitat of some rare species of butterfly ( native to Lochend). I assumed that was why the new stadium development was stymied. True :greengrin :confused:

Stonewall
15-03-2011, 04:29 PM
*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

Certainly not my understanding and I suspect he will have actually lost money in the subsequent unsuccessful Court Case with the council.

Please explain.

WindyMiller
15-03-2011, 04:40 PM
*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

* cough*http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CB0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.scotsman.com%2Ffreedomofinfo rmation%2FHibs-owner-in-demand-for.3344665.jp&ei=JJZ_TcGrLs2BhQeClMCfBw&usg=AFQjCNFu6DiRc_EV3Dm3EeGUt-byFi5e-g *cough*

Beefster
15-03-2011, 05:43 PM
Everyone seems to like to jump on New Corrie (including myself sometimes) but wasn't he only pointing out the hypocrisy of saying 'typical poisonous tory' about Rowland when Sir Tom Farmer has donated to the Conservatives in the past and was likely a Tory at the time of the takeover?

New Corrie didn't appear to be saying that Rowland and Farmer were equally loathsome individuals.

We could apply the stereotypes to anyone though. John Reid, Celtic chairman and paranoid champion extraordinaire - typical Labour.

basehibby
15-03-2011, 06:31 PM
Everyone seems to like to jump on New Corrie (including myself sometimes) but wasn't he only pointing out the hypocrisy of saying 'typical poisonous tory' about Rowland when Sir Tom Farmer has donated to the Conservatives in the past and was likely a Tory at the time of the takeover?

New Corrie didn't appear to be saying that Rowland and Farmer were equally loathsome individuals.

We could apply the stereotypes to anyone though. John Reid, Celtic chairman and paranoid champion extraordinaire - typical Labour.

NO - here's his original post....

"And got another sort of Tory:confused: Our current owner, a ruthless businessman who has contributed to the Conservative party and made shedloads out of Hibs. I must be missing something, please explain the lucky escape?"

The clear insinuation is that Farmer is no better than the odious Rowland - an insinuation that is trashed by all the evidence to hand. Being a Tory is by the by as far as I'm concerned.

ginger_rice
15-03-2011, 06:46 PM
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1297279/The-shady-City-past-friendship-Air-Miles-Andy-new-Tory-treasurer.html

Makes interesting reading, and shows some of the worst excesses of the capitalist system IMHO. Wasn't there also some other "offshore financier" involved at the time, the name Muldoon springs to mind.

As to STF after he had managed to stave off the take over the company Forth Investments was placed in receivership after a VAT bill went unpaid, the banks however never foreclosed simply owing to Tom Farmer being on board, so as far as I'm aware he should be thanked just for that. Kenny Waugh did indeed put in a bid to take control of the club after it went bust but Farmers consortium was the preferred bidder of the receivers. That's how I remember it anyway.

Paisley Hibby
15-03-2011, 07:41 PM
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1297279/The-shady-City-past-friendship-Air-Miles-Andy-new-Tory-treasurer.html

Makes interesting reading, and shows some of the worst excesses of the capitalist system IMHO. Wasn't there also some other "offshore financier" involved at the time, the name Muldoon springs to mind.

As to STF after he had managed to stave off the take over the company Forth Investments was placed in receivership after a VAT bill went unpaid, the banks however never foreclosed simply owing to Tom Farmer being on board, so as far as I'm aware he should be thanked just for that. Kenny Waugh did indeed put in a bid to take control of the club after it went bust but Farmers consortium was the preferred bidder of the receivers. That's how I remember it anyway.

That's how I remember it too. Here's what the Sunday Times said about it a few years ago

It was in June 1990 that Wallace Mercer, then Hearts chairman, made a £6.1m takeover bid for Hibernian. Mercer needed to increase his holding of Hibernian’s share capital to 76% to be able to carry through his plans. Two Hibernian directors, David Rowland and Jeremy James, pledged their 29.9% stake to Mercer and, in total, Hearts won support from an astonishing 66% of shareholders. The lasting memory of that period is the Hands off Hibs campaign, including a rally attended by thousands of supporters and a number of first-team players, but the often forgotten truth is that the majority of the club’s shareholders voted for the bid.

Mercer fell 10% short because of the efforts of three businessmen, Kenny Waugh, Tom Harrison and Farmer, to buy up sufficient stakes in the club to supplement the 13% owned by David Duff, then Hibernian chairman. In June 1991, Farmer eventually won control of Hibernian with a £2m bid. The club, owing its creditors £7m, had gone into receivership after Rowland rejected Farmer’s consortium’s initial offer. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article1144477.ece

ginger_rice
15-03-2011, 08:35 PM
T Hearts won support from an astonishing 66% of shareholders.<snip> the often forgotten truth is that the majority of the club’s shareholders voted for the bid.



True, however by the time Rowland, James and co had finished the bulk of the shares were held by offshore corporations who couldn't give a damn about Hibernian, and saw a neat parcel of real estate very close to the centre of Scotland's capital city.

tamsonsbairn
15-03-2011, 09:11 PM
I seem to remember rowland the rotter's wife Sheila seemed to have some influence in the outcome of this,(in Hibs favour if I recall).

fatbloke
15-03-2011, 09:20 PM
I seem to remember rowland the rotter's wife Sheila seemed to have some influence in the outcome of this,(in Hibs favour if I recall).

Correct Sheila Rowland Mr R's ex did not sell neither did a lot of Hibbies - myself included - still have my 1000 shares and naebody's getting them.

Peevemor
15-03-2011, 09:26 PM
... but the often forgotten truth is that the majority of the club’s shareholders voted for the bid.

Not quite. It was the holders of the majority of the shares. :nerd:

The Falcon
15-03-2011, 09:43 PM
*cough* Lochend Butterfly *cough*

Seriously?

He tried really hard, even went to court, trying not to sell (our part) of it.

How much did he make again? Pocketed the lot did he?

The Falcon
15-03-2011, 09:45 PM
The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.


Your on the wind up surely?

The Falcon
15-03-2011, 09:59 PM
Forth Investments was placed in receivership after a VAT bill went unpaid, the banks however never foreclosed simply owing to Tom Farmer being on board[/B], so as far as I'm aware he should be thanked just for that. Kenny Waugh did indeed put in a bid to take control of the club after it went bust but Farmers consortium was the preferred bidder of the receivers. That's how I remember it anyway.


Rowland wouldnt sell his shares to Farmer who then said he would take the club into administration rendering the shares worthless, Rowland didnt believe his so Farmer did just that. Does anybody think he couldnt pay the VAT bill? He had no intention of while Rowland remained a major shareholder.
In order to come out of administration a deal had to be done between the major shareholders (now Farmer and Rowland), to the satisfaction of the recievers, and only then did Rowland deal with Farmer.

Kaiser1962
15-03-2011, 10:11 PM
Correct Sheila Rowland Mr R's ex did not sell neither did a lot of Hibbies - myself included - still have my 1000 shares and naebody's getting them.

When even the guys wife ( ex or not he did put her on the board to represent him) votes against him, well that pretty much says all we need to know about David Rowland.

New Corrie
15-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Everyone seems to like to jump on New Corrie (including myself sometimes) but wasn't he only pointing out the hypocrisy of saying 'typical poisonous tory' about Rowland when Sir Tom Farmer has donated to the Conservatives in the past and was likely a Tory at the time of the takeover?

New Corrie didn't appear to be saying that Rowland and Farmer were equally loathsome individuals.

We could apply the stereotypes to anyone though. John Reid, Celtic chairman and paranoid champion extraordinaire - typical Labour.


Thank you, That's exactly what I was trying to do.

--------
16-03-2011, 09:50 AM
That's how I remember it too. Here's what the Sunday Times said about it a few years ago

It was in June 1990 that Wallace Mercer, then Hearts chairman, made a £6.1m takeover bid for Hibernian. Mercer needed to increase his holding of Hibernian’s share capital to 76% to be able to carry through his plans. Two Hibernian directors, David Rowland and Jeremy James, pledged their 29.9% stake to Mercer and, in total, Hearts won support from an astonishing 66% of shareholders. The lasting memory of that period is the Hands off Hibs campaign, including a rally attended by thousands of supporters and a number of first-team players, but the often forgotten truth is that the majority of the club’s shareholders voted for the bid.

Mercer fell 10% short because of the efforts of three businessmen, Kenny Waugh, Tom Harrison and Farmer, to buy up sufficient stakes in the club to supplement the 13% owned by David Duff, then Hibernian chairman. In June 1991, Farmer eventually won control of Hibernian with a £2m bid. The club, owing its creditors £7m, had gone into receivership after Rowland rejected Farmer’s consortium’s initial offer. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article1144477.ece


I thin it would be more accurate to say that the shareholders holding the majority of the shares voted for the bid - Mercer and Rowlands being at the forefront. A larger number of smaller shareholders opposed it, IIRC. (I could be wrong, of course. perhaps someone could confirm or correct this?)

My remembrance is that what KW, TH, and STF did by coming in as quickly as they did was to provide an alternative way forward for the club. If the only bid on the table had been the Mercer/Rowlands one, Hibs would have gone to the wall.

I appreciate that STF has contributed to the Tories in the past, and that he's a businessman in business to make profits, but I do feel that he really does NOT deserve to be compared to the likes of sewer-life like Mercer and Rowlands.

We have a great deal to be grateful for to STF. he may have his faults - we all do - but he (and Kenny Maclean and the rest of HoH people, and Kenny Waugh and Tom Harrison and others) saved the club at a time when it seemed there was no hope of survival.

--------
16-03-2011, 09:58 AM
I seem to remember rowland the rotter's wife Sheila seemed to have some influence in the outcome of this,(in Hibs favour if I recall).

Yup. She was his ex-wife by then, and that may have been why she declined to vote with him in favour of the takeover.

Rowland's a venture cap[italist, and venture capitalists are only interested in the botttom line of the balance sheet and the profit accruing to their personal accounts. I don't suppose he bore Hibs as a football club any malice at all - all in the day's plunder for him.

Mercer was the guy who acted with premeditated malice IMO.

Green_one
16-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Guys trying to re-write history and economics here again.

Rowland was a wee **** who was involved in the near disappearance of this club. Do you get it? Or do you prefer the full Hearts fantasy version. All those great pubs in Bath to invest in.

According to some geniuses on this board Farmer has somehow made shed loads out of Hibs. Well please tell us how, when the whole of Scottish football is a financial disaster and has been for the last 25 year plus. There were no significant land sales pocketed by Farmer that I know about and any idea of Hibs FC producing the cash is so laughable as to be insane. Consider the cash he has divied up in the past and we must be significantly in his debt. But hey, he is just like Rowand then :dummytit::rolleyes:

Peevemor
16-03-2011, 02:28 PM
Thank you, That's exactly what I was trying to do.

Utter keech!


The ill informed nonsense is the deluded nature of posters thinking that Sir Tom hasn't made a lot of money out of Hibs. He is of couse perfectly entitled to, as it's his baby. I don't grudge him making money out of Hibs, but suggesting that he's some charitable Knight in shining armour is as myhthical as the "flair" football stuff. Peoples recollections of the "Mercer takeover" have become somewhat hysterical and clouded over the last twenty years. Those in the know (of which there are plenty on here) should remember that other parties were also standing by to save the day (including previous owner Kenny Waugh). It didn't take a substantial amount of money to stop the takeover.

You made no mention of funding the tories or any other political party. You imply that STF didn't save Hibs with the Edinburgh/Leith community in mind, but mainly to make money.

ancient hibee
16-03-2011, 06:34 PM
Everyone seems to like to jump on New Corrie (including myself sometimes) but wasn't he only pointing out the hypocrisy of saying 'typical poisonous tory' about Rowland when Sir Tom Farmer has donated to the Conservatives in the past and was likely a Tory at the time of the takeover?

New Corrie didn't appear to be saying that Rowland and Farmer were equally loathsome individuals.

We could apply the stereotypes to anyone though. John Reid, Celtic chairman and paranoid champion extraordinaire - typical Labour.
Tell me when Farmer ever contributed to the Tory party.Let's have your proof about him likely being a Tory at the time of the takeover and even if he was he would be a typically non poisonous tory like many of them.

Phil D. Rolls
16-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Seriously?

He tried really hard, even went to court, trying not to sell (our part) of it.

How much did he make again? Pocketed the lot did he? (et al.)

OK, I am now convinced that Tom Farmer has gained nothing from his involvement in Hibs. Even though he has been absolutely entitled to.

Jeez, this fawning at STF (who I think is an ethical businessman) is as bad as the Yams do with Mr Romaonov.

Personally, I think both parties have done well out of the arrangement, and anyone who believes it was inspired 100% by charitable motives, is being naive. Read Simon Pia's pieces on Farmer's involvement.

This is why football fans get shafted by the likes of Rowland. They want to believe that businessmen share their blind passion for the sport and their team. Businessmen are calculating people, and it is our luck that we got one like Tom Farmer, and not the likes of Brian Kennedy, or the Marr Brothers etc

Part/Time Supporter
16-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Tell me when Farmer ever contributed to the Tory party.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/SNP-celebrates-record-donation.2817001.jp


SIR Tom Farmer is worth an estimated £118 million - and his donations have helped a long list of charities and other organisations.

Only this August it emerged that the devout Catholic had put up about £400,000 to buy a derelict Edinburgh church as an "inter-faith" centre for Christian nuns and Buddhist monks. Other donations include £500,000 towards refurbishment of the National Galleries on the Mound in Edinburgh and at least £5,000 a year for the city's King's and Festival theatres.

Sir Tom founded Kwik-Fit in 1971 and sold the business to Ford in 1999 for £1.2 billion.

The SNP donation is not his first political gift. In 1998, he was named as one of a number of business leaders who had given the Conservative Party undisclosed sums of more than £5,000.

Beefster
16-03-2011, 07:57 PM
Tell me when Farmer ever contributed to the Tory party.Let's have your proof about him likely being a Tory at the time of the takeover and even if he was he would be a typically non poisonous tory like many of them.

It's well documented that he was a Tory and donated to them. Try Google.

I agree that the 'poisonous Tory' line is pish though.

Edit: You won't even need to bother with Google because PTS has done you a favour.

Kaiser1962
17-03-2011, 07:11 AM
I dont think we are "fawning" over Farmer FR but I have to say that I dont believe he got involved to make money as is often suggested on here. He didnt get involved to lose money either but thats not the same thing. I have been listening to a lot of "carpetbagger" stories surrounding Farmer for twenty years now and that, while he may be an excellent businessman, as an assett stripper he's pretty 5hite.

To group him with both Romanov and Rowland is a tad unkind.

He may make money when he eventuallty sells up but I think people tend to overlook the fact that the stadium, any stadium, is only worth the land it sits on to any potential purchaser unless the potential purchaser is actually looking for a sports stadium.

In the past he has contributed to many parties and causes but I do believe that one of his "contrbutions" to the Tory party was for the sole reason he feltthat they were about to be wiped out in Scotland and that that was unhealthy for the overall political situtaion in Scotland (this was prior to Devolution).

Tom Farmer appears to have upset Simon Pia in a previous life.


(et al.)

OK, I am now convinced that Tom Farmer has gained nothing from his involvement in Hibs. Even though he has been absolutely entitled to.

Jeez, this fawning at STF (who I think is an ethical businessman) is as bad as the Yams do with Mr Romaonov.

Personally, I think both parties have done well out of the arrangement, and anyone who believes it was inspired 100% by charitable motives, is being naive. Read Simon Pia's pieces on Farmer's involvement.

This is why football fans get shafted by the likes of Rowland. They want to believe that businessmen share their blind passion for the sport and their team. Businessmen are calculating people, and it is our luck that we got one like Tom Farmer, and not the likes of Brian Kennedy, or the Marr Brothers etc

basehibby
17-03-2011, 10:45 AM
(et al.)

OK, I am now convinced that Tom Farmer has gained nothing from his involvement in Hibs. Even though he has been absolutely entitled to.

Jeez, this fawning at STF (who I think is an ethical businessman) is as bad as the Yams do with Mr Romaonov.

Personally, I think both parties have done well out of the arrangement, and anyone who believes it was inspired 100% by charitable motives, is being naive. Read Simon Pia's pieces on Farmer's involvement.

This is why football fans get shafted by the likes of Rowland. They want to believe that businessmen share their blind passion for the sport and their team. Businessmen are calculating people, and it is our luck that we got one like Tom Farmer, and not the likes of Brian Kennedy, or the Marr Brothers etc

I don't think anyone's fawning over Farmer here - merely sticking up for him like most people would stick up for Winston Churchill if some holocaust denier was to say he was no better than Hitler. Churchills's career was hardly unblemished by controversy but he looks like an angel when held up next to the nazi demagogue.

Similarly, Tom Farmer is a businessman first and foremost and has made his decisions concerning Hibs from that perspective. In so doing he has seemed to favour infrastructure improvement and bottom line over football matters - and has been criticised from some quarters for doing so. But he has also consistently aimed to move the club FORWARD as a business as opposed to the slash and burn asset stripping for a fast buck which David Rowland would have been all too happy to have been a part of.

The two approaches are like chalk and cheese and so, unsurprisingly, most are not hesitating to stick up for Farmer as oposed to the odious underhand runt that is Rowland.

Phil D. Rolls
17-03-2011, 12:30 PM
I dont think we are "fawning" over Farmer FR but I have to say that I dont believe he got involved to make money as is often suggested on here. He didnt get involved to lose money either but thats not the same thing. I have been listening to a lot of "carpetbagger" stories surrounding Farmer for twenty years now and that, while he may be an excellent businessman, as an assett stripper he's pretty 5hite.

To group him with both Romanov and Rowland is a tad unkind.

He may make money when he eventuallty sells up but I think people tend to overlook the fact that the stadium, any stadium, is only worth the land it sits on to any potential purchaser unless the potential purchaser is actually looking for a sports stadium.

In the past he has contributed to many parties and causes but I do believe that one of his "contrbutions" to the Tory party was for the sole reason he feltthat they were about to be wiped out in Scotland and that that was unhealthy for the overall political situtaion in Scotland (this was prior to Devolution).

Tom Farmer appears to have upset Simon Pia in a previous life.

I grouped him with Rowland and Mercer in the broadest sense possible. I am 100% behind what Farmer has done for Hibs. If he has made money out of it, or gained extra influence for personal or business reasons good luck to him.

One story I can tell about Tom Farmer, the man, is that he has an amazing memory for people's names. I know this because someone I know, used to take a friend on annual pilgrimiges to Lourdes. Farmer knew everyone in that group by name, and if we passed in the street, he would always say hello to her.

Mercer struck me as a man who only knew one name - his own. An odious little reptile of a man seeking the attention he thought he deserved, at the expense of other people. (IMO of course).

ancient hibee
17-03-2011, 07:56 PM
Mercer was OK but was significantly less clever than he thought he was.

mal
16-11-2021, 12:36 PM
The charming Mr. Rowland is back in the news.

Prince Andrew’s Bank Loan of $2 Million Repaid in Full by Businessman Friend - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-16/prince-andrew-s-2-million-loan-paid-off-by-top-political-donor)

Hibiza
16-11-2021, 03:39 PM
I grouped him with Rowland and Mercer in the broadest sense possible. I am 100% behind what Farmer has done for Hibs. If he has made money out of it, or gained extra influence for personal or business reasons good luck to him.

One story I can tell about Tom Farmer, the man, is that he has an amazing memory for people's names. I know this because someone I know, used to take a friend on annual pilgrimiges to Lourdes. Farmer knew everyone in that group by name, and if we passed in the street, he would always say hello to her.

Mercer struck me as a man who only knew one name - his own. An odious little reptile of a man seeking the attention he thought he deserved, at the expense of other people. (IMO of course).

10/10

jacomo
16-11-2021, 07:13 PM
This thread is an amazing repository of people who no longer post on Hibs.net.

Imagine wanting to be in Prince Andrew’s social circle though?! Puke.

cabbageandribs1875
16-11-2021, 07:15 PM
bring back Phil D

beg him if necessary


and Speedway

cabbageandribs1875
16-11-2021, 07:17 PM
This thread is an amazing repository of people who no longer post on Hibs.net.

Imagine wanting to be in Prince Andrew’s social circle though?! Puke.



can open new doors for some



the ones that go clink when closing