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Sylar
06-03-2011, 10:43 PM
I despise Celtc with every ounce of my being, but what a breath of fresh air this guy has been for them.

2 great finishes yesterday, can find a pass, has pace and can beat a player.

I never used to think he was that good in a Scotland shirt, but he's certainly going to be an important player for the national side in years to come.

Another absolute peach of a finish yesterday :agree:

Here's hoping he moves on from Celtic as quickly as he arrived.

iwasthere1972
06-03-2011, 10:50 PM
I despise Celtc with every ounce of my being, but what a breath of fresh air this guy has been for them.

2 great finishes yesterday, can find a pass, has pace and can beat a player.

I never used to think he was that good in a Scotland shirt, but he's certainly going to be an important player for the national side in years to come.

Another absolute peach of a finish yesterday :agree:

Here's hoping he moves on from Celtic as quickly as he arrived.

Always thought that he was a good player at Derby and was surprised that he wasn't snapped up by an EPL side. Not necessarily by one of the top four clubs (whoever they may be nowadays) but certainly has the ability to make it in that league.

One thing for certain now that he has signed for Celtic is that he will be an automatic choice for the Scotland team.

Agree hope he doesn't stay too long at Celtic.

H18sry
07-03-2011, 05:01 PM
Always thought that he was a good player at Derby and was surprised that he wasn't snapped up by an EPL side. Not necessarily by one of the top four clubs (whoever they may be nowadays) but certainly has the ability to make it in that league.

One thing for certain now that he has signed for Celtic is that he will be an automatic choice for the Scotland team.

Agree hope he doesn't stay too long at Celtic.

What other Celtc players are 1st choice for Scotland?

Ritchie
07-03-2011, 05:07 PM
What other Celtc players are 1st choice for Scotland?

Scott Brown, Shaun Maloney (when not injured) :greengrin

H18sry
07-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Scott Brown, Shaun Maloney (when not injured) :greengrin

Maloney has never been a first choice, and who is better than Brown?

(((Fergus)))
07-03-2011, 05:27 PM
What other Celtc players are 1st choice for Scotland?

They don't have too many Scots in/near the first team. Brown, Commons and Maloney should make every Scotland squad when fit. Wilson and Mulgrew are improving rapidly by all accounts so wouldn't be surprised if they are on the fringes. Forrest is still a bit young.

Cocaine&Caviar
07-03-2011, 05:45 PM
English!

H18sry
07-03-2011, 05:47 PM
They don't have too many Scots in/near the first team. Brown, Commons and Maloney should make every Scotland squad when fit. Wilson and Mulgrew are improving rapidly by all accounts so wouldn't be surprised if they are on the fringes. Forrest is still a bit young.

:tumble: That was my point the only certain starter is Scott Brown, Commons has always been in the squad before he moved North so no reason it will change now :wink:

(((Fergus)))
07-03-2011, 06:03 PM
:tumble: That was my point the only certain starter is Scott Brown, Commons has always been in the squad before he moved North so no reason it will change now :wink:

Well Maloney has always been there or thereabouts while Mulgrew and Wilson are still establishing themselves in the Celtic first team. Other than them there's just Forrest and another young lad (IIRC) who are Scottish.

.Sean.
07-03-2011, 06:42 PM
English!Indeed mate.

He's English so shouldn't be in the squad, nevermind be looked upon as a first pick.

HibeeMcGinn1
07-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Indeed mate.

He's English so shouldn't be in the squad, nevermind be looked upon as a first pick.

In what way does he qualify? If it's through his parents I don't see any problem but through his grandparents is just pathetic.

Dunbar Hibee
07-03-2011, 11:08 PM
Sadly that is the way of international football these days though. English or not, he is a quality player and will play a big part for Scotland.

.Sean.
08-03-2011, 08:14 AM
In what way does he qualify? If it's through his parents I don't see any problem but through his grandparents is just pathetic.His granny tried haggis.

NORTHERNHIBBY
08-03-2011, 09:14 AM
International football is going the same way as the EPL with the richest and the biggest coming out on top. Give it a few years, and the residency rule could mean that England line up full of foreigners with so many of them coming across to ply their trade in the best league in the world.

May2116
08-03-2011, 09:21 AM
In what way does he qualify? If it's through his parents I don't see any problem but through his grandparents is just pathetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Commons

"Despite being born in England, Commons qualifies to play for Scotland through his Scottish grandparents"

As you said if you Scottish your Scottish.. If your English your English.. I wouldn't care if we could have the best 11 players on the planet playing for us meaning we won.. it would not be a Scottish team!

Petrie's Tache
08-03-2011, 09:39 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Commons

"Despite being born in England, Commons qualifies to play for Scotland through his Scottish grandparents"

As you said if you Scottish your Scottish.. If your English your English.. I wouldn't care if we could have the best 11 players on the planet playing for us meaning we won.. it would not be a Scottish team!

Yet Zidane was Algerian was he not....?

(((Fergus)))
08-03-2011, 09:46 AM
Yet Zidane was Algerian was he not....?

Born in France but could have played for Algeria

humins
08-03-2011, 09:50 AM
Yet Zidane was Algerian was he not....?


According to wiki:

Zidane's parents emigrated to Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris) in 1968 from the village of Aguemone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguemone) in the Kabylie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabylie) region of Algeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria). They moved to Marseille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille) a few years later, where Zidane was born.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane#cite_note-hebdo-5)
Zidane joined a local club in the La Castellane district of Marseille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille)

It comes down to what nationality you consider yourself: Goram Yorkshireman or Scot? (hun fud is another question)
Club football is so full of mercenaries these days that unfortunately it is only a matter of time before international squads follow suit, but i would like to think players with a genuine connection to their team (club or international) give a bit extra on the park.

Gus
08-03-2011, 12:56 PM
International football is going the same way as the EPL with the richest and the biggest coming out on top. Give it a few years, and the residency rule could mean that England line up full of foreigners with so many of them coming across to ply their trade in the best league in the world.

:confused:

I cannae think of any players that England have used that have not been born in England (I might be wrong)

England - quite rightly would want to use the best players & quite frankly the best players are not going to ply their trade in the best league in the world - nothing to do with clubs but the tax implications of being a high earner.

Also if the player is good enough for their nation - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina etc then I fully expect them to play for thier country of birth - if they are not good enough then they may go down the residency, great great great great grandparents rule

Scotland can keep

Commons
Morrison
Quashie :na na:

marinello59
08-03-2011, 12:59 PM
:confused:

I cannae think of any players that England have used that have not been born in England (I might be wrong)

England - quite rightly would want to use the best players & quite frankly the best players are not going to ply their trade in the best league in the world - nothing to do with clubs but the tax implications of being a high earner.

Also if the player is good enough for their nation - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina etc then I fully expect them to play for thier country of birth - if they are not good enough then they may go down the residency, great great great great grandparents rule

Scotland can keep

Commons
Morrison
Quashie :na na:

John Barnes.
Owen Hargreaves.

Pretty Boy
08-03-2011, 01:03 PM
:confused:

I cannae think of any players that England have used that have not been born in England (I might be wrong)

England - quite rightly would want to use the best players & quite frankly the best players are not going to ply their trade in the best league in the world - nothing to do with clubs but the tax implications of being a high earner.

Also if the player is good enough for their nation - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina etc then I fully expect them to play for thier country of birth - if they are not good enough then they may go down the residency, great great great great grandparents rule

Scotland can keep

Commons
Morrison
Quashie :na na:

John Barnes was born in Jamaica, Owen Hargreaves was born in Canada, Matt Le Tissier in Guernsey, Graeme Le Saux in Jersey, Terry Buthcer in Singapore...

As for player playing for countries based on parents, grandparents or whatever, so what? If they are commited and do a job for the country they choose to play for who cares were they were born?

Gus
08-03-2011, 01:07 PM
John Barnes was born in Jamaica.

As for player playing for countries based on parents, grandparents or whatever, so what? If they are commited and do a job for the country they choose to play for who cares were they were born?

John Barnes - fair enough
Owen hargreaves - good one - forgot about him as he hasn't played in about 3 years

I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just personally don't agree with it. Fair enough your parents, but after that..........no

Wotherspiniesta
08-03-2011, 01:08 PM
Yet Zidane was Algerian was he not....?

Weren't the majority of the French world cup winning squad from another country?

Sir David Gray
08-03-2011, 01:24 PM
John Barnes was born in Jamaica.

As for player playing for countries based on parents, grandparents or whatever, so what? If they are commited and do a job for the country they choose to play for who cares were they were born?

But that's the whole point of international football.

I can understand someone qualifying to play for a nation that they weren't born in, if one or both of their parents come from that country. The parents could have been abroad on holiday when the baby arrived early so obviously it makes sense that the son is still eligible to play for Scotland under those circumstances, even although he was born in the Seychelles.

That's where I would draw the line though and I do think grandparents is stretching things a bit and the five year schooling rule is just ridiculous.

At the end of the day, each person who has the option of playing for another country other than Scotland should answer the following question;

"If nation X were to offer you a call-up at the same time as Scotland, which nation would you choose to represent?"

If the answer is nation X then they shouldn't be representing Scotland. James Morrison comes into that category. He said a few years ago that he chose to play for Scotland because he felt that his opportunities with England would be limited.

He should have been politely informed, "thanks, but no thanks."

Graham Alexander, on the other hand, is completely different. He qualified through his father and he said a few years ago that, as far back as he can remember, he has supported Scotland and had always wanted to play for them.

I just feel that all this grandparents and schooling business makes a mockery of international football.

Petrie's Tache
08-03-2011, 02:15 PM
Weren't the majority of the French world cup winning squad from another country?
My entire point.

Speedway
08-03-2011, 02:18 PM
Would we have been happy to do without South African born Richard Gough?

Sir David Gray
08-03-2011, 02:21 PM
Would we have been happy to do without South African born Richard Gough?

Gough grew up in South Africa, he was born in Sweden.

His father was Scottish though so I've no problem with him playing for Scotland.

aberhibsfc
08-03-2011, 02:28 PM
Agree with original poster.

I think initially, this deal was more about gazzumping Rangers, but it transpires that he's a decent player and is contributing significantly to their cause and also a breath of fresh air to the league.

Many Scotland fans will be aware of his ability, but I'll bet even they have had their heads turned a bit by him recently. He looks the part which is just as well for him and his Scotland status. The Scottish midfield has got strength and depth now. Fullbacks not too bad, goalkeeping sorted, strikers to pick from though it would be good, now the initial strike and impact is over, Fletcher could come back into the fold. For me, the central defence is our biggest concern at a national level now.

What a midfield, Dorrans, Fletcher, Commons, Morrison, McArthur, Snodgrass, Brown, the list goes on. Still annoyed with those wee Celtc loving [email protected] McArthy and McGeadie, wish them ever failure.

Just shows that the Championship is a decent level. I'll go onto say that while English leagues are bouyed by satelite tv money, the championship being the 4th worlds richest, the SPL is losing top Scottish players hand over fist, however our continued perseverance having to recruit young replacements has provided a conveyor belt of talent for the national team. Wilshire aside, the English national team whilst the show piece of a larger populated region is not bringing through talent of a high level nor at a necessary level. Following Gerrard, Lampard etc retirals, I think we'll be due England a whipping here and there over the coming years. Bet Agbonlahor isn't so excited about his England caps now given he could have been regularly for us. Carrols another knob that chose them over his Scottish roots but they can get on with it.

Speedway
08-03-2011, 02:31 PM
Gough grew up in South Africa, he was born in Sweden.

His father was Scottish though so I've no problem with him playing for Scotland.

Aaahh but his dad was conceived in Brighton.

MWHIBBIES
08-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Weren't the majority of the French world cup winning squad from another country?There was only 4 they were Thuram, Vieira, Desailly and Karembeu.

easty
08-03-2011, 02:35 PM
I'd rather the only people that played for Scotland were Scottish. That'd be my only eliminating factor, if you're not Scottish you don't play.

I don't think you have to be born here to say you're Scottish and I do think it's hard to implement any rules as to who can play for what country.

You could have two Scottish parents and be born in Edinburgh, but move to London when you're 1 years old, grow up there and class yourself as English (though I don't know why anyone would want to do that). Or you could be born in London to two English parents, move to Edinburgh when you're 1 and live there the rest of your life and class yourself as Scottish. For me, the latter IS a Scot, while the former is eligible to play for us but I wouldn't want him.

Petrie's Tache
08-03-2011, 02:37 PM
There was only 4 they were Thuram, Vieira, Desailly and Karembeu.
Such an important few players to.

MWHIBBIES
08-03-2011, 02:41 PM
Such an important few players to.Yeh suppose but i wouldn't mind scotland winning the world cup with 1 Nigerian 1 Englishman 1 Welshman and 1 Postman in the squad.:greengrin

aberhibsfc
08-03-2011, 03:17 PM
France were famous for capping any decent African players.

Portugal had a bash at capping Brazilians best example Deco.

Italy have done it too, with an Argentinian who's name escapes me for now.

Croatia included players such as the ex Arsenal striker.

England have also done it as pointed out earlier.

Best example at the moment are Germany.

The German machine had a change of policy following WC 2006 - WC 2010 it's publicly acknowledged that their policy changed to encompass all their citizens, actively scouring their country and encouraging the inclusion of promising youth players irrespective of family history.

Podolski, Klos and another Pole can't remember his name, the Turks:- Ozil, Gomes and another again who's name escapes me, Ghanian:- LB? What's going on, early alzheimers?

The funny thing is anyone who holds a UK passport can play for any of the home nations, however there is a gentlemans agreement whereby players should be selected per birth, parent or grandparent and players are snapped up on a 1st come first adopted basis. It has caused some controversy as some players with the least relationship eg grandparent opt to play for example Scotland as opposed to England due to opportunity of game time eg Commons, Morrison, Sullivan, P Boyd, Hutchison (good player though), and that Leicester defender which true to form name escapes me. We used to lose players to Rep Ireland as they couldn't get a game for Scotland eg T Coyne (apparently despite his league goal form it was considered he couldn't make the step-up ala Roxburgh and Brown) Coyle who scored goals for most teams in the SPL etc etc. It's went against the grain recently because of the wee Celtc fudderies McArthy and McGeadie attempt to ingratiate themsleves to the unwashed Celtc paranoid hoardes.

In effect players considered naturalised citizens eg those who have resided in the UK for several years and can apply for uK citizenship eg Arteta, Novo et al, whilst England think they can take 1st dibs and would probably get Arteta due to their status in world football, he can in fact be capped by any of the home nations as he would hold a UK passport as there is no other kind.

Do I subscribe to this, well in an ideal world no, whilst I wouldn't want to cap players because they've ate some short bread or heard of Rabbie Burns, I'd like us to give ourselves the best opportunity for success. Never qualify for a World Cup with commitment to Scottish thoroughbreds or taste some success with a blend our best and the rest available to us, it's not so black and white. Yet some might still see it this way.

At the end of the day, whoever the Scottish incumbent may be, they will continue to scour any potential Scotland caps but I think the UK as a whole are resistant to the likes of naturalising the likes of Arteta.

MWHIBBIES
08-03-2011, 03:47 PM
France were famous for capping any decent African players.

Portugal had a bash at capping Brazilians best example Deco.

Italy have done it too, with an Argentinian who's name escapes me for now.

Croatia included players such as the ex Arsenal striker.

England have also done it as pointed out earlier.

Best example at the moment are Germany.

The German machine had a change of policy following WC 2006 - WC 2010 it's publicly acknowledged that their policy changed to encompass all their citizens, actively scouring their country and encouraging the inclusion of promising youth players irrespective of family history.

Podolski, Klos and another Pole can't remember his name, the Turks:- Ozil, Gomes and another again who's name escapes me, Ghanian:- LB? What's going on, early alzheimers?

The funny thing is anyone who holds a UK passport can play for any of the home nations, however there is a gentlemans agreement whereby players should be selected per birth, parent or grandparent and players are snapped up on a 1st come first adopted basis. It has caused some controversy as some players with the least relationship eg grandparent opt to play for example Scotland as opposed to England due to opportunity of game time eg Commons, Morrison, Sullivan, P Boyd, Hutchison (good player though), and that Leicester defender which true to form name escapes me. We used to lose players to Rep Ireland as they couldn't get a game for Scotland eg T Coyne (apparently despite his league goal form it was considered he couldn't make the step-up ala Roxburgh and Brown) Coyle who scored goals for most teams in the SPL etc etc. It's went against the grain recently because of the wee Celtc fudderies McArthy and McGeadie attempt to ingratiate themsleves to the unwashed Celtc paranoid hoardes.

In effect players considered naturalised citizens eg those who have resided in the UK for several years and can apply for uK citizenship eg Arteta, Novo et al, whilst England think they can take 1st dibs and would probably get Arteta due to their status in world football, he can in fact be capped by any of the home nations as he would hold a UK passport as there is no other kind.

Do I subscribe to this, well in an ideal world no, whilst I wouldn't want to cap players because they've ate some short bread or heard of Rabbie Burns, I'd like us to give ourselves the best opportunity for success. Never qualify for a World Cup with commitment to Scottish thoroughbreds or taste some success with a blend our best and the rest available to us, it's not so black and white. Yet some might still see it this way.

At the end of the day, whoever the Scottish incumbent may be, they will continue to scour any potential Scotland caps but I think the UK as a whole are resistant to the likes of naturalising the likes of Arteta.Think some of the names you are missing are Mauro Camoranesi,Eduardo and Jerome Boateng.

Stevie Reid
08-03-2011, 04:23 PM
France were famous for capping any decent African players.

Portugal had a bash at capping Brazilians best example Deco.

Italy have done it too, with an Argentinian who's name escapes me for now.

Croatia included players such as the ex Arsenal striker.

England have also done it as pointed out earlier.

Best example at the moment are Germany.

The German machine had a change of policy following WC 2006 - WC 2010 it's publicly acknowledged that their policy changed to encompass all their citizens, actively scouring their country and encouraging the inclusion of promising youth players irrespective of family history.

Podolski, Klos and another Pole can't remember his name, the Turks:- Ozil, Gomes and another again who's name escapes me, Ghanian:- LB? What's going on, early alzheimers?

The funny thing is anyone who holds a UK passport can play for any of the home nations, however there is a gentlemans agreement whereby players should be selected per birth, parent or grandparent and players are snapped up on a 1st come first adopted basis. It has caused some controversy as some players with the least relationship eg grandparent opt to play for example Scotland as opposed to England due to opportunity of game time eg Commons, Morrison, Sullivan, P Boyd, Hutchison (good player though), and that Leicester defender which true to form name escapes me. We used to lose players to Rep Ireland as they couldn't get a game for Scotland eg T Coyne (apparently despite his league goal form it was considered he couldn't make the step-up ala Roxburgh and Brown) Coyle who scored goals for most teams in the SPL etc etc. It's went against the grain recently because of the wee Celtc fudderies McArthy and McGeadie attempt to ingratiate themsleves to the unwashed Celtc paranoid hoardes.

In effect players considered naturalised citizens eg those who have resided in the UK for several years and can apply for uK citizenship eg Arteta, Novo et al, whilst England think they can take 1st dibs and would probably get Arteta due to their status in world football, he can in fact be capped by any of the home nations as he would hold a UK passport as there is no other kind.

Do I subscribe to this, well in an ideal world no, whilst I wouldn't want to cap players because they've ate some short bread or heard of Rabbie Burns, I'd like us to give ourselves the best opportunity for success. Never qualify for a World Cup with commitment to Scottish thoroughbreds or taste some success with a blend our best and the rest available to us, it's not so black and white. Yet some might still see it this way.

At the end of the day, whoever the Scottish incumbent may be, they will continue to scour any potential Scotland caps but I think the UK as a whole are resistant to the likes of naturalising the likes of Arteta.

Losing Ray Houghton to the Republic of Ireland is an unwanted legacy of Andy Roxburgh's - absoultely criminal. Tommy Coyne should also have been capped before Ireland stepped in, as should Owen Coyle.

Gus
08-03-2011, 04:33 PM
The Boateng brothers is an interesting one -

one players for Germany & the other Ghana, same dad I believe also

aberhibsfc
08-03-2011, 04:36 PM
Think some of the names you are missing are Mauro Camoranesi,Eduardo and Jerome Boateng.

Thank you :aok:

aberhibsfc
08-03-2011, 04:45 PM
Losing Ray Houghton to the Republic of Ireland is an unwanted legacy of Andy Roxburgh's - absoultely criminal. Tommy Coyne should also have been capped before Ireland stepped in, as should Owen Coyle.

Bernie Slaven also.

Houghton, Coyne and Coyle as you say, truely criminal. Unlike the two Mac's, these guys wanted to play for their country, not deemed good enough and never given the chance. Roxburgh, the original Mourinho, pity he wasn't as good or successful. He brought Scotland from the greats to the blackboard, his and Brown's perseverance playing 30+'s languishing in the EPL reserves maintained an ageing and created Scotland's lost generations. Whilst both will proclaim their stats will stand up with the best and our ranking. We seen flourishes of improvement under Smith and McLeish, despite Levien's distaste of all things Hibs and his 6-4-0 formation. We may now begin to witness an upsurge in quality and desire in the national team with a young exuberant team as demonstrated v N Ireland. Levien and his youngsters have to continue to grow and prove themselves, but the national sides future is beginning to glow a little brighter.