What would you do?

[heretoday]

Leaving Tesco earlier I noticed a BMW parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge on the dash. A guy was walking towards it with a bag of shopping which he put in the back. He then drove off. There was no passenger in the car.

I chanced to walk past him again in a traffic queue up the road. He had removed the badge from the dash. I got his reg number. What do I do?

When my mum was alive I used to have a helluva job getting her plus wheelchair in and out of car parks, stores etc due to the selfishness of others. You wouldn't believe the disdain we sometimes received. I've mellowed since but today the old feelings returned. What would you do?

[Sylar]

Edit: Found this - perhaps a phone call to the Blue Badge advice line:

Blue Badge advice line

The Blue Badge advice line can offer general information and advice.
Telephone: 020 7944 2914 or 0161 367 0009
Email: [email protected]

Misuse of the Blue Badge

Blue Badges are the property of local councils, who can take them away if they are misused.
The Blue Badge is for your use only, it is an offence to allow other people to use the Blue Badge to:


do something on your behalf such as shopping whilst you stay at home
allow friends or family to park for free even if they are visiting you
let non-disabled people take advantage of the benefits while you sit in the car

It is not illegal for a Blue Badge holder, or non-badge holder waiting for the Blue Badge holder to return, to remain in the vehicle with the badge displayed. However, you should consider using a car park whenever possible.
The maximum fine for someone convicted is £1,000 plus any additional penalty for the related parking offence.
If you think that a Blue Badge is being misused you should:


get as many details as possible from the badge on display
report the matter to your local council, who will investigate and take action



The Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) Regulations 2000 - Office of Public Sector Information website Opens new window (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20000682.htm)



The Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) (Amendments) Regulations 2007 - Office of Public Sector Information website Opens new window (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072531_en_1)



Road Traffic Act 1991 - Office of Public Sector Information website Opens new window (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/contents)


Useful contacts



Motoring and transport contacts for disabled people (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/DisabledPeopleContacts/OrganisationsAndCharities/DG_10014890)



Transport government contacts (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/DisabledPeopleContacts/GovernmentContacts/DG_10014920)

[stevie-bee]

it really hate when this happens also when you get lazy ****s parking in the parent/child spaces.
Stores should have wardens to check these spaces.

[col02]

How do you know the guy does not have MS or something similiar that entitles him to a disabled badge? As far as I am aware you do not need to be restricted to using a wheelchair to entitle you to use these bays!

[Beefster]

How do you know the guy does not have MS or something similiar that entitles him to a disabled badge? As far as I am aware you do not need to be restricted to using a wheelchair to entitle you to use these bays!

Obviously, people without an obvious disability can have a blue badge. However, there are folk who abuse the spaces and/or the badges. At my ex-employers, there was a girl who was brazen about using her [dead] Grandparent's badge to get free parking in the New Town every day.

There's no harm in reporting it to the appropriate authorities. If it's legit, all will be fine. If not, the guy in question may get his comeuppance.

This is the email address for Edinburgh btw - [email protected]

[Woody1985]

How do you know the guy does not have MS or something similiar that entitles him to a disabled badge? As far as I am aware you do not need to be restricted to using a wheelchair to entitle you to use these bays!

That was my first thought.

I think the rules on the disabled person needing to travel when they are used is silly. If someone is performing a duty on behalf of someone disabled why do they have to be there?

I know that leaves it open to misuse but you either give it to people deserving or you don't.

[Hibbyradge]

Leaving Tesco earlier I noticed a BMW parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge on the dash. A guy was walking towards it with a bag of shopping which he put in the back. He then drove off. There was no passenger in the car.

I chanced to walk past him again in a traffic queue up the road. He had removed the badge from the dash. I got his reg number. What do I do?

When my mum was alive I used to have a helluva job getting her plus wheelchair in and out of car parks, stores etc due to the selfishness of others. You wouldn't believe the disdain we sometimes received. I've mellowed since but today the old feelings returned. What would you do?

Good for you.

He should be reported. :agree:

[sleeping giant]

it really hate when this happens also when you get lazy ****s parking in the parent/child spaces.
Stores should have wardens to check these spaces.

Whats the age limit for the child in parent and child parking ?
I parked in one yesterday but i had my child with me :greengrin

[Removed]

Whats the age limit for the child in parent and child parking ?
I parked in one yesterday but i had my child with me :greengrin

I always use them when I'm with my dad :agree:

[sleeping giant]

I always use them when I'm with my dad :agree:

:hilarious

[ArabHibee]

Leaving Tesco earlier I noticed a BMW parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge on the dash. A guy was walking towards it with a bag of shopping which he put in the back. He then drove off. There was no passenger in the car.

I chanced to walk past him again in a traffic queue up the road. He had removed the badge from the dash. I got his reg number. What do I do?

When my mum was alive I used to have a helluva job getting her plus wheelchair in and out of car parks, stores etc due to the selfishness of others. You wouldn't believe the disdain we sometimes received. I've mellowed since but today the old feelings returned. What would you do?

Whilst I totally agree with you and get really cheesed off with people flouting the use of blue badges, I doubt there is much you can do about this instance. I know you got the car registration but its really the blue badge number you would require to report this to the appropriate authorities, as the blue badge can be used in any vehicle, it is not limited to the vehicle that the disabled person may own.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but at least you'll know for the next time.


it really hate when this happens also when you get lazy ****s parking in the parent/child spaces.
Stores should have wardens to check these spaces.

Do your legs stop working or something when you have kids that means you have to park closer to the store? Never really understood the point in these spaces and they're fair game imo.

[Hibs Class]

That was my first thought.

I think the rules on the disabled person needing to travel when they are used is silly. If someone is performing a duty on behalf of someone disabled why do they have to be there?

I know that leaves it open to misuse but you either give it to people deserving or you don't.

Badges are given to people who qualify rather than who deserve them. It isn't just at supermarkets that they can be used. There was a lad who worked at bank of scotland in fountainbridge who used his mum's blue badge so he could park in grove street each day for free. That was clearly an abuse. (As it happens he was caught, prosecuted and convicted.)

[Removed]

Do your legs stop working or something when you have kids that means you have to park closer to the store? Never really understood the point in these spaces and they're fair game imo.

It's about the space needed to get a child into a car seat. That's why they have spaces with bigger gaps between cars. In my experience they are not often the closest to the door but in a place that's safer if you have a buggy or pram.

[ArabHibee]

It's about the space needed to get a child into a car seat. That's why they have spaces with bigger gaps between cars. In my experience they are not often the closest to the door but in a place that's safer if you have a buggy or pram.

Nonsense. They are as close to the front doors of a store as some disabled spaces. Whilst I agree that you need a large width of space to remove babies/children from car seats, these spaces could easily be at the far end of the car park, where it would definitely be more safer if you have a buggy or pram.

[vein]

Do your legs stop working or something when you have kids that means you have to park closer to the store? Never really understood the point in these spaces and they're fair game imo.


It's about the space needed to get a child into a car seat. That's why they have spaces with bigger gaps between cars. In my experience they are not often the closest to the door but in a place that's safer if you have a buggy or pram.

:agree:

Babies car seats are pretty bulky things. Given that there are so many ignorant drivers these days that will park right up at your car hardly allowing room for an adult to squeeze in there would be no chance of squeezing a car seat into the car.

If I'm out on my own I can hardly leave my daughter alone in her pram as I reverse the car out of the space so I have enough room to get the door open.

Theres also the point that mine or anyone elses little darlings may not be so thoughtful as to not push their door open into the car next to them. As much as I tell my wee lad to be careful there have been times when he has almost created a nice big dent in the car next door.

Hopefully that clears it up and shows why parent and child spaces should not be treated as 'fair game' :aok:

[marinello59]

Nonsense. They are as close to the front doors of a store as some disabled spaces. Whilst I agree that you need a large width of space to remove babies/children from car seats, these spaces could easily be at the far end of the car park, where it would definitely be more safer if you have a buggy or pram.

You might feel differently if you had to contend with a demanding toddler whilst loading your weeks shop in to the car. it ain't fun. The supermarkets know what they are doing, they are simply looking after those who spend the most dosh in their stores.

[vein]

Nonsense. They are as close to the front doors of a store as some disabled spaces. Whilst I agree that you need a large width of space to remove babies/children from car seats, these spaces could easily be at the far end of the car park, where it would definitely be more safer if you have a buggy or pram.

What about toddler big brother or sister, is it safer for them to walk the length of a supermarket car park?

[ArabHibee]

:agree:

Babies car seats are pretty bulky things. Given that there are so many ignorant drivers these days that will park right up at your car hardly allowing room for an adult to squeeze in there would be no chance of squeezing a car seat into the car.

If I'm out on my own I can hardly leave my daughter alone in her pram as I reverse the car out of the space so I have enough room to get the door open.

Theres also the point that mine or anyone elses little darlings may not be so thoughtful as to not push their door open into the car next to them. As much as I tell my wee lad to be careful there have been times when he has almost created a nice big dent in the car next door.

Hopefully that clears it up and shows why parent and child spaces should not be treated as 'fair game' :aok:

We were both posting at the same time. See my post above. Your points are completely valid but I still don't agree with them being right next to the store's entrance.

[ArabHibee]

You might feel differently if you had to contend with a demanding toddler whilst loading your weeks shop in to the car. it ain't fun. The supermarkets know what they are doing, they are simply looking after those who spend the most dosh in their stores.
Hence the reason for online shopping and delivery.


What about toddler big brother or sister, is it safer for them to walk the length of a supermarket car park?
It's hardly a marathon is it?

[lapsedhibee]

I think the rules on the disabled person needing to travel when they are used is silly. If someone is performing a duty on behalf of someone disabled why do they have to be there?
Because performing a duty for a disabled person is different from being disabled? :dunno:

[vein]

We were both posting at the same time. See my post above. Your points are completely valid but I still don't agree with them being right next to the store's entrance.

Fair enough but my next again post still stands. Too many idiots race about supermarket car parks making them unsafe for wee kids to walk the length of the car park.

Much safer for adults without kids to park that little bit further away.

[marinello59]

Hence the reason for online shopping and delivery.



Is this your caring sharing demeanour kicking in again? :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

This is an issue very close to my heart and it really angers me to see things like this go on.

For me, the blue badge should be two-tiered. One type of badge should be issued for wheelchair users and the people who hold these badges should be the only ones who are allowed to park in wide parking bays, to allow the person's chair to go up the side of the car when they are getting in and out.

The second type of badge should be issued to people with health problems that severely restricts their mobility. This type of badge would entitle those who hold them to park in normal sized bays that are close to the shop that they are going to.

There is nothing more frustrating for myself as a wheelchair user than to be looking for a space only to find that the last one has been taken by someone with a limp. OK, they may require a space close to the shop as they might not be able to walk too far but they do not require extra space to get in and out of their car.

Issuing the badge for wheelchair users should be easy enough to handle but the second one needs to be monitored closely as it's those who fall into that category who are causing the problems at the moment. GPs also need to take more care when taking the decision on whether a person should be eligible for a blue badge or not.

My grandparents (who are both well into their 70s) have their own car and have several health problems between them that would probably entitle them to a blue badge, if they were to apply for one. However they don't have one, nor do they want one.

Anyway, their next door neighbours do have a blue badge, in fact the man and wife have one each, they do not use wheelchairs and they do not even need a stick to get around. One day last year, the man came over to my grandparents and offered them one of their blue badges, an offer which was quickly turned down. The guy replied by saying that if they ever needed it in the future, they just had to ask.

It makes me sick to learn that the sheer number of badge cheats has now meant that a charge is to be brought in for anyone being issued with a blue badge. People confined to a wheelchair are absolutely reliant on a blue badge and parking in town centres is practically impossible without one.

On the other hand, whilst we have a charge being brought in for blue badges, the bus pass continues to be free right across the board for every single person over the age of 60, people who have their own car and even multi millionaires are entitled to one for absolutely nothing.

I might be about to shame some people on here (or not as the case may be) but the problem also arises at Hibs games with people who quite clearly have granny's badge for the day parking in the designated disabled parking area on St Clair Street.

For 3pm kick offs, if you're not at St Clair Street before 1.30, you can generally forget trying to get a space so that means I've got to leave Falkirk nearly 3 hours before kick off, just so I can guarantee getting a space. I often sit in the car for about half an hour and I watch people get out of car after car and a large number of them have absolutely nothing wrong with them. I'm talking about men in their 30's and 40's taking along the two young kids and the lot of them sprint up the hill towards Easter Road without any shame. The parking attendants are absolutely useless because as long as they see a badge displayed, they won't challenge anyone.

These people ought to actually try being in a wheelchair for a couple of weeks and see how they get on. I bet most of them wouldn't even manage to get past the first day before bailing out.

My final point is that I have never understood why the badgeholder's picture is displayed on the back of the badge and is therefore not visible when it is put on a dashboard. It would be far easier for parking attendants and traffic wardens to challenge someone when they drive up. They could look at the picture on the badge, check the occupants of the car and if they don't match up, they can tell the driver to beat it.

[ArabHibee]

Fair enough but my next again post still stands. Too many idiots race about supermarket car parks making them unsafe for wee kids to walk the length of the car park.

Much safer for adults without kids to park that little bit further away.

You're talking to the converted. I normally park away from the store for the reasons you gave about banging doors against doors but its normally adults doing the banging rather than kids. Well from what I've seen anyway.

[ArabHibee]

Is this your caring sharing demeanour kicking in again? :greengrin

Not at all. :greengrin
The point is the parent and child spaces, as far as I'm aware, are complimentary spaces and anyone can park in them. Hence the reason why they don't have attendants crawling over the car park checking. Not sure if Tesco still do the orange 'parent & toddler' badge which you used to have to display if you were parking in one of these spaces but they were very easy to get. You just went into customer services and asked for one. Didn't even have to prove you had any children. Pretty pointless imo.

[vein]

You're talking to the converted. I normally park away from the store for the reasons you gave about banging doors against doors but its normally adults doing the banging rather than kids. Well from what I've seen anyway.

I actually agree with that, far too many selfish people who when challenged give it "its only a car".

Although a lot of the kids dont get a chance to do it now as they are always in the nice wide parent and child spaces :greengrin

Anyway I'm stepping out off this one as its gone a bit off track now and dont want to :hijack:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Do your legs stop working or something when you have kids that means you have to park closer to the store? Never really understood the point in these spaces and they're fair game imo.

As has been said the spaces between the bays are wider so you can get the kids out easier.

What I don't get is why there are so many disabled spaces and so few parent & child spaces in comparison - there must be more folk with kids than there are disabled folk?

Is there a regulation that means companies have to provide a certain number of disabled spaces per sqare metre or something?

[marinello59]

Not at all. :greengrin
The point is the parent and child spaces, as far as I'm aware, are complimentary spaces and anyone can park in them. Hence the reason why they don't have attendants crawling over the car park checking. Not sure if Tesco still do the organ 'parent & toddler' badge which you used to have to display if you were parking in one of these spaces but they were very easy to get. You just went into customer services and asked for one. Didn't even have to prove you had any children. Pretty pointless imo.

You didn't? :faf:

[Removed]

You didn't? :faf:

I bet she did. My organs are bigger than your organs :tee hee:

[The Green Goblin]

Leaving Tesco earlier I noticed a BMW parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge on the dash. A guy was walking towards it with a bag of shopping which he put in the back. He then drove off. There was no passenger in the car.

I chanced to walk past him again in a traffic queue up the road. He had removed the badge from the dash. I got his reg number. What do I do?

When my mum was alive I used to have a helluva job getting her plus wheelchair in and out of car parks, stores etc due to the selfishness of others. You wouldn't believe the disdain we sometimes received. I've mellowed since but today the old feelings returned. What would you do?


As you didn`t mention anything about the way the guy was walking or what age he was or anything like that, and based on your post, your suspicion is due to the fact that the guy wasn`t displaying his blue badge after he drove off.

The thing is, he doesn`t have to display it when he is driving, only when he is parking. My old man has one. He keeps the badge in the pull-down driver`s mirror above his head - displays it when he needs to and removes it after he gets back into the car.

Did you see the picture on the badge? and was it of the person you saw? Blue badges have large, clear photos of the person who is entitled to use it. I, for example, could not "use" my father`s badge, not would I wish to, obviously.

The guy might well have been misusing the badge, I don`t know, but I think your reason for reporting needs to be better than the one you gave.

GG

[ArabHibee]

You didn't? :faf:
:whistle:



I bet she did. My organs are bigger than your organs :tee hee:

Ok. I spelt it wrong in my haste to post. :na na:

Oh, and for what it's worth FH, I totally agree with your post. The amount of folk that have blue badges and have hee haw wrong with them or they are abusing someone else's blue badge is unbelievable. Time the government tightened up on this.

[Beefster]

It's hardly a marathon is it?

So why are you moaning about having to walk a wee bit further than a two year old?

[The Green Goblin]

:whistle:




Ok. I spelt it wrong in my haste to post. :na na:

Oh, and for what it's worth FH, I totally agree with your post. The amount of folk that have blue badges and have hee haw wrong with them or they are abusing someone else's blue badge is unbelievable. Time the government tightened up on this.


I can tell you from personal experience (see my other post) that it`s a fairly rigorous process to apply for a blue badge, the application process takes some time to be analysed and considered and it can not be granted without specific medical evidence and the testimony of a GP or specialist.

Abusing them, no doubt some people are, but the bit in bold - what is that comment based on? Heresay? Popular gossip? Or have you personally lost count of the hundreds of people you know for certain don`t need or deserve them. How do you know this? Can you tell by looking at someone if they have MS or a disability of some kind? It`s so easy to judge and generalise, and it doesn`t help anyone.

GG

[ArabHibee]

I can tell you from personal experience (see my other post) that it`s a fairly rigorous process to apply for a blue badge, the application process takes some time to be analysed and considered and it can not be granted without specific medical evidence and the testimony of a GP or specialist.

Abusing them, no doubt some people are, but the bit in bold - what is that comment based on? Heresay? Popular gossip? Or have you personally lost count of the hundreds of people you know for certain don`t need or deserve them. How do you know this? Can you tell by looking at someone if they have MS or a disability of some kind? It`s so easy to judge and generalise, and it doesn`t help anyone.

GG

My comment is based on personal experience. I'll PM you more details if you wish but I can't say much more than this on a public forum.

[speedy_gonzales]

Supermarkets- In Scotland, blue badge spaces and P&C spaces are not enforced by any laws/fines etc. They rely on public decency to keep these spaces for those that require them.
Last year in England, some local authorities were taking a tougher stance on blue badge mis-use, they started actively policing the disabled bays on street and in shoppers car parks. Not sure if they will get away with that here as we have differing laws on illegal parking/clamping etc.


The stores themselves aren't interested in policing them, they have to have them to get past planning for the store, they mark 'x' amount with a wheelchair and 'x' amount with an adult/child, that's it, job done.

Someone asked about the age for P&C, Tesco's do hand out stickers and on their literature the spaces are for parents that have children 5 years or younger.

[MyJo]

FWIW parent and child spaces are designed to allow parents to get thier kids in and out of car seats & buggy's/prams without damaging other cars or themselves and the kids due to not having any space to maneuver. Thier position is decided to avoid having kids walking across a dangerous & busy car park rather than anything to do with not having to walk further.

It says more about the ignorant, selfish halfwits without kids that decide to use these spaces to park their peugeot 107's and fiat 500's in to save walking an extra 15 or 20 yards than it does about parents having these spaces made available to them when they have a genuine need for the space and safety it affords them.

I include blue badge holders in that as well, many many times i have seen someone with a blue badge decide to use a parent and child space rather than use one of several disabled spaces that are available but would result in them taking 6 or 7 more steps to get to the door.

[heretoday]

As you didn`t mention anything about the way the guy was walking or what age he was or anything like that, and based on your post, your suspicion is due to the fact that the guy wasn`t displaying his blue badge after he drove off.

The thing is, he doesn`t have to display it when he is driving, only when he is parking. My old man has one. He keeps the badge in the pull-down driver`s mirror above his head - displays it when he needs to and removes it after he gets back into the car.

Did you see the picture on the badge? and was it of the person you saw? Blue badges have large, clear photos of the person who is entitled to use it. I, for example, could not "use" my father`s badge, not would I wish to, obviously.

The guy might well have been misusing the badge, I don`t know, but I think your reason for reporting needs to be better than the one you gave.

GG
I think you're right. My bloke is not exactly bang to rights. I didn't see the photo on the badge after all and my annoyance was mainly sparked by the fact that he appeared perfectly fit and was driving a BMW M3! Not your typical blue badge user in my experience!

So I'm just going to seeth quietly - a familiar feeling nowadays.

He was at it though wasn't he? Oh yes he was!

[Removed]

I think you're right. My bloke is not exactly bang to rights. I didn't see the photo on the badge after all and my annoyance was mainly sparked by the fact that he appeared perfectly fit and was driving a BMW M3! Not your typical blue badge user in my experience!

So I'm just going to seeth quietly - a familiar feeling nowadays.

He was at it though wasn't he? Oh yes he was!

:agree: report him

Not content with abusing the system he's causing global warming as well. Selfish bassa :agree:

[matty_f]

Not at all. :greengrin
The point is the parent and child spaces, as far as I'm aware, are complimentary spaces and anyone can park in them. Hence the reason why they don't have attendants crawling over the car park checking. Not sure if Tesco still do the orange 'parent & toddler' badge which you used to have to display if you were parking in one of these spaces but they were very easy to get. You just went into customer services and asked for one. Didn't even have to prove you had any children. Pretty pointless imo.

Sure it's been said already, but the parent and child spaces are wider spaced.

As it happens, if the parent and child spaces are full at the Tesco near me, I'll park as far away as I can, as I know it's pretty likely that I'll not have anyone parked next to me when I come out, so getting the kids back in will be easy.

Don't know how it fits with other stores, but the parent and child bays are by the zebra crossing at the front of the store, which makes life easier as well as it's then the only road we need to cross.

[matty_f]

FWIW parent and child spaces are designed to allow parents to get thier kids in and out of car seats & buggy's/prams without damaging other cars or themselves and the kids due to not having any space to maneuver. Thier position is decided to avoid having kids walking across a dangerous & busy car park rather than anything to do with not having to walk further.

It says more about the ignorant, selfish halfwits without kids that decide to use these spaces to park their peugeot 107's and fiat 500's in to save walking an extra 15 or 20 yards than it does about parents having these spaces made available to them when they have a genuine need for the space and safety it affords them.

I include blue badge holders in that as well, many many times i have seen someone with a blue badge decide to use a parent and child space rather than use one of several disabled spaces that are available but would result in them taking 6 or 7 more steps to get to the door.

:top marks

[Woody1985]

Badges are given to people who qualify rather than who deserve them. It isn't just at supermarkets that they can be used. There was a lad who worked at bank of scotland in fountainbridge who used his mum's blue badge so he could park in grove street each day for free. That was clearly an abuse. (As it happens he was caught, prosecuted and convicted.)

Semantics. That's what I meant.

[Jack]

You're all too late! There was a consultation late last year, the consultation document can be found here http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/07/12102032/0 (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/07/12102032/0)

Someone might still want to get in touch with them to see what's happening.


Obviously, people without an obvious disability can have a blue badge. However, there are folk who abuse the spaces and/or the badges. At my ex-employers, there was a girl who was brazen about using her [dead] Grandparent's badge to get free parking in the New Town every day.

There's no harm in reporting it to the appropriate authorities. If it's legit, all will be fine. If not, the guy in question may get his comeuppance.

This is the email address for Edinburgh btw - [email protected]

I’ve met the guy at the end of that email a few times. He’s really passionate about what he’s doing and if anyone can make a difference he can. If there's anyone out there who wants to complain about the misuse of a badge you can be assured he’s the man – for Edinburgh.


This is an issue very close to my heart and it really angers me to see things like this go on.

For me, the blue badge should be two-tiered. One type of badge should be issued for wheelchair users and the people who hold these badges should be the only ones who are allowed to park in wide parking bays, to allow the person's chair to go up the side of the car when they are getting in and out.

The second type of badge should be issued to people with health problems that severely restricts their mobility. This type of badge would entitle those who hold them to park in normal sized bays that are close to the shop that they are going to.

There is nothing more frustrating for myself as a wheelchair user than to be looking for a space only to find that the last one has been taken by someone with a limp. OK, they may require a space close to the shop as they might not be able to walk too far but they do not require extra space to get in and out of their car.

Issuing the badge for wheelchair users should be easy enough to handle but the second one needs to be monitored closely as it's those who fall into that category who are causing the problems at the moment. GPs also need to take more care when taking the decision on whether a person should be eligible for a blue badge or not.

My grandparents (who are both well into their 70s) have their own car and have several health problems between them that would probably entitle them to a blue badge, if they were to apply for one. However they don't have one, nor do they want one.

Anyway, their next door neighbours do have a blue badge, in fact the man and wife have one each, they do not use wheelchairs and they do not even need a stick to get around. One day last year, the man came over to my grandparents and offered them one of their blue badges, an offer which was quickly turned down. The guy replied by saying that if they ever needed it in the future, they just had to ask.

It makes me sick to learn that the sheer number of badge cheats has now meant that a charge is to be brought in for anyone being issued with a blue badge. People confined to a wheelchair are absolutely reliant on a blue badge and parking in town centres is practically impossible without one.

On the other hand, whilst we have a charge being brought in for blue badges, the bus pass continues to be free right across the board for every single person over the age of 60, people who have their own car and even multi millionaires are entitled to one for absolutely nothing.

I might be about to shame some people on here (or not as the case may be) but the problem also arises at Hibs games with people who quite clearly have granny's badge for the day parking in the designated disabled parking area on St Clair Street.

For 3pm kick offs, if you're not at St Clair Street before 1.30, you can generally forget trying to get a space so that means I've got to leave Falkirk nearly 3 hours before kick off, just so I can guarantee getting a space. I often sit in the car for about half an hour and I watch people get out of car after car and a large number of them have absolutely nothing wrong with them. I'm talking about men in their 30's and 40's taking along the two young kids and the lot of them sprint up the hill towards Easter Road without any shame. The parking attendants are absolutely useless because as long as they see a badge displayed, they won't challenge anyone.

These people ought to actually try being in a wheelchair for a couple of weeks and see how they get on. I bet most of them wouldn't even manage to get past the first day before bailing out.

My final point is that I have never understood why the badgeholder's picture is displayed on the back of the badge and is therefore not visible when it is put on a dashboard. It would be far easier for parking attendants and traffic wardens to challenge someone when they drive up. They could look at the picture on the badge, check the occupants of the car and if they don't match up, they can tell the driver to beat it.


Photographs are not for display for safety reasons of the BB holder. Some authorities have tried using simple codes incorporated into the badge number with limited success.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the consultation, noted above.

[Woody1985]

Because performing a duty for a disabled person is different from being disabled? :dunno:

Yes, but if someone is performing a duty for someone and clearly going out their way to help someone less fortunate why should they be penalised?

Why inconvenience someone who is disabled and finds mobility difficult by making them travel when the person they are with will ultimately be performing a duty on their behalf.

[ArabHibee]

Yes, but if someone is performing a duty for someone and clearly going out their way to help someone less fortunate why should they be penalised?

Why inconvenience someone who is disabled and finds mobility difficult by making them travel when the person they are with will ultimately be performing a duty on their behalf.

I think the simple answer to that is that it would just be too hard to police.

Traffic Warden: You are parked in a disabled space and that disabled badge doesn't belong to you.
Car driver: Aye, but I was just nipping to the shops for them.
TF: Nae bother, on your way.

It actually turns slightly farcical that you can sit in the car displaying the blue badge whilst the person who the badge belongs to goes about their business, shopping etc but the badge holder cannot sit in the car whilst you do their business for them. That's mad.

[Beefster]

Yes, but if someone is performing a duty for someone and clearly going out their way to help someone less fortunate why should they be penalised?

Why inconvenience someone who is disabled and finds mobility difficult by making them travel when the person they are with will ultimately be performing a duty on their behalf.

Because an able-bodied person would be using up a space that someone with a genuine need could use.

It's not penalising anyone able-bodied either. They just have to park somewhere that they would have if they were doing an errand of their own.

[Removed]

I've got a booster seat spare. If anyone could use it drop me a pm :wink:

[Hibs Class]

I've got a booster seat spare. If anyone could use it drop me a pm :wink:

Shhhhh!

[Speedy]

As you didn`t mention anything about the way the guy was walking or what age he was or anything like that, and based on your post, your suspicion is due to the fact that the guy wasn`t displaying his blue badge after he drove off.

The thing is, he doesn`t have to display it when he is driving, only when he is parking. My old man has one. He keeps the badge in the pull-down driver`s mirror above his head - displays it when he needs to and removes it after he gets back into the car.

Did you see the picture on the badge? and was it of the person you saw? Blue badges have large, clear photos of the person who is entitled to use it. I, for example, could not "use" my father`s badge, not would I wish to, obviously.

The guy might well have been misusing the badge, I don`t know, but I think your reason for reporting needs to be better than the one you gave.

GG

The photos are on the back so they are not visible.

[Allant1981]

A wee bit off topic but why are cars with these badges allowed to park on double yellow lines?

[lapsedhibee]

Because an able-bodied person would be using up a space that someone with a genuine need could use.

It's not penalising anyone able-bodied either. They just have to park somewhere that they would have if they were doing an errand of their own.

:agree: It's a bonkers idea imo that you should be able to assume the characteristics of a disabled person (eg by parking in a disabled space) simply because you're doing an errand for him/her. Using this logic, if you're driving an errand for your GF you should be allowed to wander all over the road looking at yourself in the mirror; if you're going to the butcher's shop for a Hun mate you should be allowed to just lean over the counter and sink your teeth into the grub as a means of selecting your purchase, rather than wait for an assistant to weigh and wrap it; etc etc etc.

[ArabHibee]

A wee bit off topic but why are cars with these badges allowed to park on double yellow lines?

From this website: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/blue-badge-scheme/where-to-park

Badge holders may usually park on single or double yellow lines in Scotland without any time limit, except where there is a ban on loading or unloading. It is preferable if Blue Badge holders park in disabled persons parking places, marked by the appropriate Blue Badge signs, rather than on yellow lines if a space is available in a convenient location.

So what it's saying is that they should use a parking bay wherever possible but can park on single or double yellows if no space available.

[Removed]

From this website: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/blue-badge-scheme/where-to-park

Badge holders may usually park on single or double yellow lines in Scotland without any time limit, except where there is a ban on loading or unloading. It is preferable if Blue Badge holders park in disabled persons parking places, marked by the appropriate Blue Badge signs, rather than on yellow lines if a space is available in a convenient location.

So what it's saying is that they should use a parking bay wherever possible but can park on single or double yellows if no space available.

Not looked at the link but surely they can't just park on any double yellow. What if its dangerous to park?

[ArabHibee]

Not looked at the link but surely they can't just park on any double yellow. What if its dangerous to park?

Lazy barsteward. :grr: Here's what you are looking for:

Always check roadside signs showing times of operation for loading bays, etc. Restrictions will always be indicated on a post-mounted sign. If you park where it would cause an obstruction or danger to other road users your vehicle could be removed by the police. You could also be prosecuted and have your badge withdrawn.

[Removed]

Lazy barsteward. :grr: Here's what you are looking for:

Always check roadside signs showing times of operation for loading bays, etc. Restrictions will always be indicated on a post-mounted sign. If you park where it would cause an obstruction or danger to other road users your vehicle could be removed by the police. You could also be prosecuted and have your badge withdrawn.

:greengrin don't you realise motd is on but I suppose you won't be watching it :faf:

:thumbsup: for the paste. That makes sense

[Woody1985]

Because an able-bodied person would be using up a space that someone with a genuine need could use.

It's not penalising anyone able-bodied either. They just have to park somewhere that they would have if they were doing an errand of their own.

I meant in general and not just the blue badge spaces. They can park on yellows etc.

They should be inconvenienced as little as possible

[ArabHibee]

:greengrin don't you realise motd is on but I suppose you won't be watching it :faf:


:rolleyes: Kuyt would be an apt name for him if one of the letters was changed.

[Removed]

:rolleyes: Kuyt would be an apt name for him if one of the letters was changed.

And nani :wink:

Mon the Gooners :thumbsup:

[Beefster]

I meant in general and not just the blue badge spaces. They can park on yellows etc.

They should be inconvenienced as little as possible

I'm not being obtuse but I'm still not sure why me finding a normal space and walking an extra 50 yards would be inconvenience. My mother has a blue badge. If I do her a favour, why should I, a fully mobile man, be able to just pull up and park on double yellows because I'm doing the favour for my Mother rather than my Gran?

The badges are there to stop people registered disabled from having to travel long distances, not as a handy wee perk for anyone that knows them.

As someone has already said, aside from the justification for it, it would be impossible to police and just raise a green flag for unchecked abuse of the scheme.

[Woody1985]

I'm not being obtuse but I'm still not sure why me finding a normal space and walking an extra 50 yards would be inconvenience. My mother has a blue badge. If I do her a favour, why should I, a fully mobile man, be able to just pull up and park on double yellows because I'm doing the favour for my Mother rather than my Gran?

The badges are there to stop people registered disabled from having to travel long distances, not as a handy wee perk for anyone that knows them.

As someone has already said, aside from the justification for it, it would be impossible to police and just raise a green flag for unchecked abuse of the scheme.

I agree with the policing aspect but when city centre parking limits are at a premium people are asked to pay extortionate rates. Fair enough for car parks etc where it's all free.

I like FH's idea of a two tiered system but knowing the council it'd cost them 50 million to implement.

[steakbake]

Sure it's been said already, but the parent and child spaces are wider spaced.

As it happens, if the parent and child spaces are full at the Tesco near me, I'll park as far away as I can, as I know it's pretty likely that I'll not have anyone parked next to me when I come out, so getting the kids back in will be easy.

Don't know how it fits with other stores, but the parent and child bays are by the zebra crossing at the front of the store, which makes life easier as well as it's then the only road we need to cross.

I often use these because I am claustrophobic and also very careless with opening my doors. I feel like I could use the extra space. :aok:

[J-C]

Leaving Tesco earlier I noticed a BMW parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge on the dash. A guy was walking towards it with a bag of shopping which he put in the back. He then drove off. There was no passenger in the car.

I chanced to walk past him again in a traffic queue up the road. He had removed the badge from the dash. I got his reg number. What do I do?

When my mum was alive I used to have a helluva job getting her plus wheelchair in and out of car parks, stores etc due to the selfishness of others. You wouldn't believe the disdain we sometimes received. I've mellowed since but today the old feelings returned. What would you do?


As another poster said, you don't need to show the badge when driving, just parking. Also, you don't have to be old or infirm to have a blue badge, the guy might have a serious heart complaint or any other similar health problems that can't be seen from with the naked eye.

[SlickShoes]

it really hate when this happens also when you get lazy ****s parking in the parent/child spaces.
Stores should have wardens to check these spaces.

How on earth can you tell by looking at a car if someone has a child with them or not?

Parent and child spaces are a joke.

[Danderhall Hibs]

How on earth can you tell by looking at a car if someone has a child with them or not?

Parent and child spaces are a joke.

Big, massive, muckle child seat(s) in the back? Most kids under 4 will still have the big Brittax effort plugged in.

Not that having a car seat in the back means the bairn's with you at the shops mind you.

What about these drop-off spaces at Tesco and M&S and that - surely if it's a drop-off or collection space someone should be in the car?!

[Lucius Apuleius]

Never had special spaces when I were a lad!!! Wait a minute, they never had bloody supermarkets!!!

[ArabHibee]

Never had special spaces when I were a lad!!! Wait a minute, they never had bloody supermarkets!!!
So where did you park the horse and cart? :tee hee:

[Lucius Apuleius]

So where did you park the horse and cart? :tee hee:

The missus was the only one who drove then :greengrin

[heretoday]

As another poster said, you don't need to show the badge when driving, just parking. Also, you don't have to be old or infirm to have a blue badge, the guy might have a serious heart complaint or any other similar health problems that can't be seen from with the naked eye.

I don't think he'd be driving a high performance motor like that if he was a heart risk! I take your point though.

[steakbake]

As another poster said, you don't need to show the badge when driving, just parking. Also, you don't have to be old or infirm to have a blue badge, the guy might have a serious heart complaint or any other similar health problems that can't be seen from with the naked eye.

Definitely. Not all disabilities are visible. Take MS for example. For a large number of people, they don't necessarily need a wheelchair or even assistance with walking such as sticks for short distances etc. However, they might be totally incapable of walking a long distance or the walk from a car parked at some distance to the door might be a major consideration. A short walk from the door into the supermarket, conserving energy to actually go shopping is preferable.

Folk like to get hot under the collar about these things, but from my experience of my dad trying to get one, a blue badge application is not a walk in the park - even if the park in question is fully kitted out with disability friendly ramps and has a disabled parking bay near the duck pond.

It does annoy me that other family members might misuse someone's blue badge - that's not what it's there for. But equally, I think that to complain about someone because they did not seem visibly disabled says something about the way that we look at disabilities and arrange our "sympathies" accordingly as a society.

[speedy_gonzales]

Definitely. Not all disabilities are visible.
<snip>

It does annoy me that other family members might misuse someone's blue badge - that's not what it's there for. .
Cannot disagree with anything you say, but can I suggest the reason some lash out at 'walking' blue badge holders is because of the perceived fraud and misuse of blue badges that seems all too prevalent these days?!?
Personally I'd admit to being sceptical when I see a car pull up, park on single yellows, display a blue badge and the the sole occupant of the car leaps out like a spring lamb! Off course this person could well be legit but odds are, in my experience, they aren't.
I actually know of a regular blue badge abuser. The blue badge is for an elderly relative. This lowlife actually hands the badge out to his employees to allow them to run his business 'better'. Really sad thing is he's a hibby, and a relatively well known one too!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why don't we extend this to everyone who is claiming privileges and benefits for something they are not entitled to? I used to question why some people had a taxi card when there was nothing I could see wrong with them.

As for mobility cars - don't get me started, the guy across the road is driving around in a flashy new motor, which his mother claimed due to her disability. It's taxed and insured by you and I by the way.

At the end of the day though, bloody chancers will always get away with it, and the people who are too weak to stand up for themselves (pun not intended) are the ones that suffer.

[Speedy]

By the way, did anyone else think of this when they saw the thread title?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FBIoOJOhg

[Beefster]

Why don't we extend this to everyone who is claiming privileges and benefits for something they are not entitled to? I used to question why some people had a taxi card when there was nothing I could see wrong with them.

As for mobility cars - don't get me started, the guy across the road is driving around in a flashy new motor, which his mother claimed due to her disability. It's taxed and insured by you and I by the way.

At the end of the day though, bloody chancers will always get away with it, and the people who are too weak to stand up for themselves (pun not intended) are the ones that suffer.

Nonsense. Motability may be a subsidised scheme but there is a monthly payment paid by the 'owner' which is to cover the hire, insurance, tax, tyres, breakdown and more.

[speedy_gonzales]

Nonsense. Motability may be a subsidised scheme but there is a monthly payment paid by the 'owner' which is to cover the hire, insurance, tax, tyres, breakdown and more.
Some or all of their disability payments(DLA) may be sacrificed, they can also top up with their own money.
The vast majority of motability vehicles are paid for by the users DLA, so in a way, FR is correct?!?

[Beefster]

Some or all of their disability payments(DLA) may be sacrificed, they can also top up with their own money.
The vast majority of motability vehicles are paid for by the users DLA, so in a way, FR is correct?!?

Using that logic, I pay for pretty much everything from part of your train fare to your LRT bus to your bin being emptied.

The fact that the person using Motability means a use of disposable income (wherever it comes from) means that the insurance and road tax isn't free, which is what FR was implying.

[Killiehibbie]

Using that logic, I pay for pretty much everything from part of your train fare to your LRT bus to your bin being emptied.

The fact that the person using Motability means a use of disposable income (wherever it comes from) means that the insurance and road tax isn't free, which is what FR was implying.
Compared to the real cost of buying and running a car Mobility is a bargain for the chancers that abuse it.

[ArabHibee]

Using that logic, I pay for pretty much everything from part of your train fare to your LRT bus to your bin being emptied.
The fact that the person using Motability means a use of disposable income (wherever it comes from) means that the insurance and road tax isn't free, which is what FR was implying.

I suppose "the guy" that FR refers to is technically getting it free though, as he isn't the one with the disability.
And I would happily forfeit £200 a month DLA to receive a brand new motor with the insurance and road tax thrown in, not to mention servicing, tyres and breakdown insurance.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with folk being entitled to this if they have mobility issues. It's the chancers who flout the laws behind this payment that get my goat.

[Removed]

I suppose "the guy" that FR refers to is technically getting it free though, as he isn't the one with the disability.

And I would happily forfeit £200 a month DLA to receive a brand new motor with the insurance and road tax thrown in, not to mention servicing, tyres and breakdown insurance.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with folk being entitled to this if they have mobility issues. It's the chancers who flout the laws behind this payment that get my goat.

So this DLA payment, how much do they actually get if they can afford to chuck an extra £200 to get a better disability car :confused: or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[speedy_gonzales]

The fact that the person using Motability means a use of disposable income (wherever it comes from) means that the insurance and road tax isn't free, which is what FR was implying.
Benefits, regardless of type, are not and should not be classed as disposable income. This is one of the reasons why the Daily Mail readers shout 'Broken Britain' from the rooftops!
My brother has alleged medical issues, he recently got an increase to his considerable benefits of just under £50 a week. This was classed as DLA(carers portion, not mobility). It's intended purpose was so he could pay for a home help type person to do some basic chores. BUT, as the money is paid direct into my brothers account he spends it as he sees fit(drink and other not so legal drugs). There is no accountability from either him or or those that hand the money over.
So, benefits=disposable income? Maybe in this case but that does not make it right!

[speedy_gonzales]

So this DLA payment, how much do they actually get if they can afford to chuck an extra £200 to get a better disability car :confused: or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

THIS LINK (http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/whatis/whatisdla.asp) may help with that one.

Benefits are a bit of a complicated beast. Those who wish to take advantage of the motability scheme have to sacrifice part or all of their DLA(made up of 2 parts).
Bearing in mind, just because you get DLA, doesn't mean you can't work. Disability as a whole is a very emotive subject but I have to ask, is it right that a family friend that suffers from an illness they have had since birth gets enough DLA to pay for a brand new Mercededes(B), fully taxed & insured for them, partner +1, breakdown cover & tyres, even though they live in a large modern house and hold down a better paid than average full time job?

Food for thought!

[Beefster]

Compared to the real cost of buying and running a car Mobility is a bargain for the chancers that abuse it.

I'm not defending those who abuse it. I was challenging the claim that it's 'free'.

Is it really abused though or do folk in receipt of DLA sometimes use it to give their primary carer/taxi service the use of a better car? If a disabled person can't drive, why would the car only be used if they were in it?


I suppose "the guy" that FR refers to is technically getting it free though, as he isn't the one with the disability.
And I would happily forfeit £200 a month DLA to receive a brand new motor with the insurance and road tax thrown in, not to mention servicing, tyres and breakdown insurance.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with folk being entitled to this if they have mobility issues. It's the chancers who flout the laws behind this payment that get my goat.

DLA is one of the few benefits that I have very little issue with. It's there to help those less fortunate than us pay for care and/or assistance in getting about.

If you were able to get DLA, I'd think that getting a car a wee bit cheaper than the norm wouldn't make up for the **** that you'd have to put up.

[ArabHibee]

Thought I'd seen it all until 2 days ago when I saw a disability badge on a motorcycle and I'm not talking about a moped here, I'm talking about a sooped up sports bike!

[Lucius Apuleius]

Thought I'd seen it all until 2 days ago when I saw a disability badge on a motorcycle and I'm not talking about a moped here, I'm talking about a sooped up sports bike!

Billy's:confused:






:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Do your legs stop working or something when you have kids that means you have to park closer to the store? Never really understood the point in these spaces and they're fair game imo.

Dear oh dear.

If you can't understand why parents with young kids may need wider spaces and ones that are closer to the store and actively think they are 'fair game' then you really are missing something I would say.

That something might, among other things, be basic common sense, understanding of child road safety, comprehension of the difficulties of transporting children safely and human empathy towards others.

[ArabHibee]

Dear oh dear.
If you can't understand why parents with young kids may need wider spaces and ones that are closer to the store and actively think they are 'fair game' then you really are missing something I would say.
That something might, among other things, be basic common sense, understanding of child road safety, comprehension of the difficulties of transporting children safely and human empathy towards others.

Um, where have you been?

[RyeSloan]

Um, where have you been?

Believe it or not I've been busy doing other things...I only read this thread today...apologies if I missed it but didn't see anywhere on this thread you showing any deeper understanding of the value these type of spaces have for parents and their children and the reason why they shouldn't be 'fair game' to be used and abused by others.

[Andy74]

Believe it or not I've been busy doing other things...I only read this thread today...apologies if I missed it but didn't see anywhere on this thread you showing any deeper understanding of the value these type of spaces have for parents and their children and the reason why they shouldn't be 'fair game' to be used and abused by others.

Same here, just read this and it's pathetic!

Still, I see them being used all the time by people who don't need to and it's sad that there are so many people out there who genuinely don't give a toss what they are doing.

[ArabHibee]

Believe it or not I've been busy doing other things...I only read this thread today...apologies if I missed it but didn't see anywhere on this thread you showing any deeper understanding of the value these type of spaces have for parents and their children and the reason why they shouldn't be 'fair game' to be used and abused by others.
:yawn:
So you just thought you'd type what other folk have already said. Bit like answering a question that's already been answered 10 posts before. Whatever floats your boat. And my point still stands, no requirement for these spaces to be right next to the shop front door.

[RyeSloan]

:yawn:
So you just thought you'd type what other folk have already said. Bit like answering a question that's already been answered 10 posts before. Whatever floats your boat. And my point still stands, no requirement for these spaces to be right next to the shop front door.

So you decide when I want to make a point. Don't think so.

It wasn't an answer to a question it was expressing that I found your attitude rather incredulous as the value of these types of spaces would seem obvious to most, even those without children.

Your point still stands in that you have made it and have now clarified you stand by it, part of the reason I posted as it was unclear if any of the responses to date had changed you viewpoint

My point still stands in that if you still believe there to be no requirement to assist parents in keeping children safe in an evironment where cars can be in very close proximity where they can often be going too fast or reversing (how easy is it to see a toddler in your rear view?) and that you actively use these spaces despite not having children and therefore possibly deny their use to those that have indicates you are missing a few fundamentals.

[Mibbes Aye]

:yawn:
So you just thought you'd type what other folk have already said. Bit like answering a question that's already been answered 10 posts before. Whatever floats your boat. And my point still stands, no requirement for these spaces to be right next to the shop front door.

You don't have children, do you?

The reason those spaces are close to the door is because they are positioned adjacent to pavement, which tends to run around the store.

The reason they are adjacent to pavement is to lessen the need to cross the car park with children, thereby reducing the danger.

It's not difficult to imagine why trying to get across a carpark with a trolley and children is potentially dangerous.

[Andy74]

:yawn:
So you just thought you'd type what other folk have already said. Bit like answering a question that's already been answered 10 posts before. Whatever floats your boat. And my point still stands, no requirement for these spaces to be right next to the shop front door.

What effect does it have on you being near a door? You've said they are fair game - why do you need to be near the door?

Many of the ones I've seen aren't near the front at all, they just happen to be wider spaces.

As has been noted above, most of the time they are to provide safe passage through whatever the car park layout is.

There are plenty other spaces out there and normally just a handful of these and it's extreme ignorance to use ones allocated for this purpose.

[ArabHibee]

Re the last 3 posts. Have you said anything different to the posts before?
Answer: No.
Like I said, its all been said before, didn't realise I was supposed to come back on here to re evaluate my way of thinking. Bad me. As long as I'm not parking in a disabled space then I'm not worried if its a child and parent space.

[johnbc70]

Re the last 3 posts. Have you said anything different to the posts before?
Answer: No.
Like I said, its all been said before, didn't realise I was supposed to come back on here to re evaluate my way of thinking. Bad me. As long as I'm not parking in a disabled space then I'm not worried if its a child and parent space.

That is your decision, a very selfish decision right enough.

Do you have kids? I am assuming not because until you do then you will not know what lengths you would go to so that they are safe and protected, and if that means me or my wife not having to walk a further 50/100 yards (assuming the space is next to the supermarket which the majority are) through a busy car park with a 3 year old and a 6 month old baby then I do not see why I should have to do that because you are in the child and parent space. You even seem to take some perverse pride in the fact that you would do this, not something I would be happy to tell people about. All in my opinion though, you are entitled to yours.

[matty_f]

That is your decision, a very selfish decision right enough.

Do you have kids? I am assuming not because until you do then you will not know what lengths you would go to so that they are safe and protected, and if that means me or my wife not having to walk a further 50/100 yards (assuming the space is next to the supermarket which the majority are) through a busy car park with a 3 year old and a 6 month old baby then I do not see why I should have to do that because you are in the child and parent space. You even seem to take some perverse pride in the fact that you would do this, not something I would be happy to tell people about. All in my opinion though, you are entitled to yours.
:agree:

[Allant1981]

That is your decision, a very selfish decision right enough.

Do you have kids? I am assuming not because until you do then you will not know what lengths you would go to so that they are safe and protected, and if that means me or my wife not having to walk a further 50/100 yards (assuming the space is next to the supermarket which the majority are) through a busy car park with a 3 year old and a 6 month old baby then I do not see why I should have to do that because you are in the child and parent space. You even seem to take some perverse pride in the fact that you would do this, not something I would be happy to tell people about. All in my opinion though, you are entitled to yours.


What would you do if all the spaces were taken up? Would you just not go your shopping?

[Danderhall Hibs]

What would you do if all the spaces were taken up? Would you just not go your shopping?

I reckon he'd still go. He's just doing a bit risk mitigation - seems sensible to me.

[Beefster]

The bitterness shown by some folk on here towards wee bairns having their risks reduced and other car owners having their body/paint work protected is amazing.

Let's hope that if a toddler ever gets hit by a car because you've been a selfish ****hole and made them walk through a busy car-park, you can live with yourself afterwards.

[johnbc70]

The bitterness shown by some folk on here towards wee bairns having their risks reduced and other car owners having their body/paint work protected is amazing.

Let's hope that if a toddler ever gets hit by a car because you've been a selfish ****hole and made them walk through a busy car-park, you can live with yourself afterwards.

:agree: When it comes children then I just cannot understand why some folk would even contemplate putting them in danger, no matter how small the chances of anything happening. Yes 99.99% of the time I am sure everything will be fine, but even if having to park 100 yards away and having to walk through a busy car park with 2/3 kids adds a 0.00001% chance of being in an acident then that is not a chance I want to take because someone has been selfish and parked in the spaces for parent/children.

[Andy74]

Re the last 3 posts. Have you said anything different to the posts before?
Answer: No.
Like I said, its all been said before, didn't realise I was supposed to come back on here to re evaluate my way of thinking. Bad me. As long as I'm not parking in a disabled space then I'm not worried if its a child and parent space.

You made a pont on a public forum, expect to get a bit of a response, and if the responses are all the same then that should indicate how the public feel about tbis.

Bad you? Yes.
Selfish. Yes.
Bitter, probably.
Good for you about not worrying about kids safety and actually just a bit of common decency. What a hero.

[lapsedhibee]

:agree: When it comes children then I just cannot understand why some folk would even contemplate putting them in danger, no matter how small the chances of anything happening. Yes 99.99% of the time I am sure everything will be fine, but even if having to park 100 yards away and having to walk through a busy car park with 2/3 kids adds a 0.00001% chance of being in an acident then that is not a chance I want to take because someone has been selfish and parked in the spaces for parent/children.

Hard to disagree with your sentiment, but there's a problem with your statistical/probabilistic argument. If it's always right to minimise the risk to children, then you shouldn't take them shopping to the supermarket at all - you should get the supermarket to deliver. Developing this line of thinking, people who park in Parent & Child spaces with children may be accused of being selfish and inconsiderate, to their own children.

[ArabHibee]

You made a pont on a public forum, expect to get a bit of a response, and if the responses are all the same then that should indicate how the public feel about tbis.

Bad you? Yes.
Selfish. Yes.
Bitter, probably.
Good for you about not worrying about kids safety and actually just a bit of common decency. What a hero.

Bad me? :agree:
Selfish? :agree:
Bitter? :faf:

For what its worth, I don't purposely look for a child and parent space, I do park elsewhere but if I'm only nipping into the money machine or for something quick then I'll use them.

[hibee_girl]

The bitterness shown by some folk on here towards wee bairns having their risks reduced and other car owners having their body/paint work protected is amazing.

Let's hope that if a toddler ever gets hit by a car because you've been a selfish ****hole and made them walk through a busy car-park, you can live with yourself afterwards.

:top marks

[marinello59]

Bad me? :agree:
Selfish? :agree:
Bitter? :faf:

For what its worth, I don't purposely look for a child and parent space, I do park elsewhere but if I'm only nipping into the money machine or for something quick then I'll use them.

Accidentally? :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Accidentally? :greengrin

Aye, very good.:greengrin
You know what I mean. Some folk on here are carrying on like I trawl Waitrose car park looking for a parent/child space just for the satisfaction of parking in it and giving a GIRUY to parents with children. They're also carrying on like its the crime of the century. Far worse to park in a disabled space imo. Which was the point of the OP in the first place.

[marinello59]

Aye, very good.:greengrin
You know what I mean. Some folk on here are carrying on like I trawl Waitrose car park looking for a parent/child space just for the satisfaction of parking in it and giving a GIRUY to parents with children. They're also carrying on like its the crime of the century. Far worse to park in a disabled space imo. Which was the point of the OP in the first place.

Waitrose? Why didn't you say you shopped at Waitrose. When one shops at Waitrose one should be able to park wherever one bally well likes.:agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Far worse to park in a disabled space imo.

Why?

[Sir David Gray]

Why?

As a wheelchair user, I can answer that question fairly easily.

However before I begin, let me make it quite clear that I'm not condoning people parking in parent & toddler spaces who are not entitled to park there.

Although I accept that the wider bays and spaces closer to the shop may make it easier for a parent to get their toddler/small child to and from the shop safely, it is still possible for a parent to take their toddler to the shops and park in a normal parking space, if the wider and closer bays were all taken up. I understand that it may make the whole experience a bit more inconvenient and more difficult but it does remain possible to continue with your plans for a day's shopping with your child.

However, if the wide disabled parking spaces are all taken up by people who are not disabled, people like myself just simply do not have the option of saying "oh look, there's a normal space there, I'll just take that". I absolutely could not get my wheelchair in the space between my car door and the car next to me if I was parked up in a normal bay and therefore I would be completely unable to get to the shops.

The provision of parent/toddler spaces are all about convenience added in with an element of safety, whereas disabled spaces are provided as a matter of necessity.

As I say, I accept that parent/toddler spaces have their place but in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion parking in one of those spaces, if you're not supposed to, doesn't even come close to being as bad as parking in a disabled space without a valid blue badge.

[lapsedhibee]

As a wheelchair user, I can answer that question fairly easily.

However before I begin, let me make it quite clear that I'm not condoning people parking in parent & toddler spaces who are not entitled to park there.

Although I accept that the wider bays and spaces closer to the shop may make it easier for a parent to get their toddler/small child to and from the shop safely, it is still possible for a parent to take their toddler to the shops and park in a normal parking space, if the wider and closer bays were all taken up. I understand that it may make the whole experience a bit more inconvenient and more difficult but it does remain possible to continue with your plans for a day's shopping with your child.

However, if the wide disabled parking spaces are all taken up by people who are not disabled, people like myself just simply do not have the option of saying "oh look, there's a normal space there, I'll just take that". I absolutely could not get my wheelchair in the space between my car door and the car next to me if I was parked up in a normal bay and therefore I would be completely unable to get to the shops.

The provision of parent/toddler spaces are all about convenience added in with an element of safety, whereas disabled spaces are provided as a matter of necessity.

As I say, I accept that parent/toddler spaces have their place but in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion parking in one of those spaces, if you're not supposed to, doesn't even come close to being as bad as parking in a disabled space without a valid blue badge.

Falkirk, if I can ask a slightly related question, what proportion of valid blue badge holders are also wheelchair users, would you say? High or low? :dunno:

[Andy74]

As a wheelchair user, I can answer that question fairly easily.

However before I begin, let me make it quite clear that I'm not condoning people parking in parent & toddler spaces who are not entitled to park there.

Although I accept that the wider bays and spaces closer to the shop may make it easier for a parent to get their toddler/small child to and from the shop safely, it is still possible for a parent to take their toddler to the shops and park in a normal parking space, if the wider and closer bays were all taken up. I understand that it may make the whole experience a bit more inconvenient and more difficult but it does remain possible to continue with your plans for a day's shopping with your child.

However, if the wide disabled parking spaces are all taken up by people who are not disabled, people like myself just simply do not have the option of saying "oh look, there's a normal space there, I'll just take that". I absolutely could not get my wheelchair in the space between my car door and the car next to me if I was parked up in a normal bay and therefore I would be completely unable to get to the shops.

The provision of parent/toddler spaces are all about convenience added in with an element of safety, whereas disabled spaces are provided as a matter of necessity.

As I say, I accept that parent/toddler spaces have their place but in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion parking in one of those spaces, if you're not supposed to, doesn't even come close to being as bad as parking in a disabled space without a valid blue badge.

I agree that one is more necessary than the other.

However, I don't agree that there is any distinction between using either if you don't fall into the category.

It takes exactly the same level of ignorance, arrogance and lack of any common or moral decency to park somewhere that has been created to meet the need of someone else.

[lapsedhibee]

I agree that one is more necessary than the other.

However, I don't agree that there is any distinction between using either if you don't fall into the category.

It takes exactly the same level of ignorance, arrogance and lack of any common or moral decency to park somewhere that has been created to meet the need of someone else.

Does that mean, then, if the blue badge holders' spaces are all used up, and there are plenty of free Child and Parent spaces, and Falkirk parks in one of them, that he is ignorant, arrogant and lacks decency? :dunno:

[Scouse Hibee]

Disabled/Blue Badge Spaces = If you abuse them you're lowlife IMO

Parent/Child Spaces = A convenience to be respected but we could do without them IMO.

Elderly/Infirm Spaces = Non existant and required, there are plenty of people in this catergory that don't have Blue badges but struggle or have mobility isues. Far more needy than young fit children and parents.

[Twa Cairpets]

Bottom line is that for both of these types of spaces you can either be a part of a civilised community and watch out for each other by respecting facilties designed for those who need extra help, or you can be a selfish, arrogant tool. It's fairly black and white.

A parent with a toddler, a buggy and a trolley of shopping is not like a regular, adult shopper. They have more things to think about and be concerned about. Any able-bodied adult who begrudges those in that situation a reduced walk of maybe 30 yards without the need to cross a road is seriously so far up there own @rse as to be almost beyond belief.

[bawheid]

Bottom line is that for both of these types of spaces you can either be a part of a civilised community and watch out for each other by respecting facilties designed for those who need extra help, or you can be a selfish, arrogant tool. It's fairly black and white.

A parent with a toddler, a buggy and a trolley of shopping is not like a regular, adult shopper. They have more things to think about and be concerned about. Any able-bodied adult who begrudges those in that situation a reduced walk of maybe 30 yards without the need to cross a road is seriously so far up there own @rse as to be almost beyond belief.

Yep. :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Bottom line is that for both of these types of spaces you can either be a part of a civilised community and watch out for each other by respecting facilties designed for those who need extra help, or you can be a selfish, arrogant tool. It's fairly black and white.

A parent with a toddler, a buggy and a trolley of shopping is not like a regular, adult shopper. They have more things to think about and be concerned about. Any able-bodied adult who begrudges those in that situation a reduced walk of maybe 30 yards without the need to cross a road is seriously so far up there own @rse as to be almost beyond belief.

Would like to lump in to the selfish arrogant tool category all those folk who don't bother centring their vehicles in ordinary parking spaces, so that, for the whole duration of their visit on a busy day, streams of other vehicles approach a perceived space and then have to drive away thwarted. Very frustrating, and very ungreen in a carbonfootprinty sort of a way. Lazy *******s! :grr:

[ArabHibee]

Why?

Why? I can't believe you even have to ask that.
Having children is a lifestyle choice.
Being disabled isn't.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Falkirk, if I can ask a slightly related question, what proportion of valid blue badge holders are also wheelchair users, would you say? High or low? :dunno:

That was going to be my question - I hardly ever see folk in wheelchairs burling round Tesco. I see loads of kids though.


Why? I can't believe you even have to ask that.
Having children is a lifestyle choice.
Being disabled isn't.

I think you're getting yourself confused. If not you're definitely confusing me.

[Killiehibbie]

Would like to lump in to the selfish arrogant tool category all those folk who don't bother centring their vehicles in ordinary parking spaces, so that, for the whole duration of their visit on a busy day, streams of other vehicles approach a perceived space and then have to drive away thwarted. Very frustrating, and very ungreen in a carbonfootprinty sort of a way. Lazy *******s! :grr:Nothing to do with being lazy. Some of them do it on purpose and others just can't get their car in between the lines even after several attempts.

[lapsedhibee]

Nothing to do with being lazy. Some of them do it on purpose and others just can't get their car in between the lines even after several attempts.

If their physical ability's that limited shouldn't they be in the wider blue badge spaces? :dunno:

[hibsbollah]

Would like to lump in to the selfish arrogant tool category all those folk who don't bother centring their vehicles in ordinary parking spaces, so that, for the whole duration of their visit on a busy day, streams of other vehicles approach a perceived space and then have to drive away thwarted. Very frustrating, and very ungreen in a carbonfootprinty sort of a way. Lazy *******s! :grr:

I do that. I also park up on the pavement on easter road on matchdays.

[Twa Cairpets]

Why? I can't believe you even have to ask that.
Having children is a lifestyle choice.
Being disabled isn't.

Ye Gods.

What an entirely bizarre comparison to make.

So you decide to have kids (assuming of course that every kid is the product of an actively positive choice). Or maybe you have twins (emphatically not a choice). Because someone decied to make this "choice" you decide they don't have the right to convey their babies/toddlers to a shopping centre or supermarket in a safe way because you object to not being able to park a few yards closer to the entrance or have to cross a road?

Truly jaw-dropping selfishness.

[Removed]

Waitrose? Why didn't you say you shopped at Waitrose. When one shops at Waitrose one should be able to park wherever one bally well likes.:agree:

Doubt it. A Waitrose in Dundee or Coupar Angus :faf:

[Scouse Hibee]

Would like to lump in to the selfish arrogant tool category all those folk who don't bother centring their vehicles in ordinary parking spaces, so that, for the whole duration of their visit on a busy day, streams of other vehicles approach a perceived space and then have to drive away thwarted. Very frustrating, and very ungreen in a carbonfootprinty sort of a way. Lazy *******s! :grr:

Only takes one though and the rest of us have to follow suit to park next to them and so on :greengrin

[speedy_gonzales]

Said it before, disabled and P&C bays are not enforceable in Scotland (though they are in some boroughs in England).
However, they are required to be installed to get planning permission, numbers based on square footage of the store.
There is no will from the stores to manage these and it has been highlighted in the past that the numbers of these spaces are not proportional to the shopping public (1 small store had 20% of it's bays painted with a wheelchair, no mention of blue badge).
However, before I get slaughtered, I obviously agree that spaces should be made available for shoppers that have such requirements, and if we have such spaces, then they are enforced by the stores, I'd make that part of their planning permission.
FWIW, I live 2 minutes walk from a Tesco extra and ALWAYS walk there, even if I am doing a 'Big Shop', crack out the rucksack!

[Removed]

Ye Gods.

What an entirely bizarre comparison to make.

So you decide to have kids (assuming of course that every kid is the product of an actively positive choice). Or maybe you have twins (emphatically not a choice). Because someone decied to make this "choice" you decide they don't have the right to convey their babies/toddlers to a shopping centre or supermarket in a safe way because you object to not being able to park a few yards closer to the entrance or have to cross a road?

Truly jaw-dropping selfishness.

I'll quote you so she can see it :wink:

[matty_f]

Why? I can't believe you even have to ask that.
Having children is a lifestyle choice.
Being disabled isn't.

I'm not sure if you're just fishing/trolling or if you've actually made that as an attempt at a serious point.

[lapsedhibee]

Only takes one though and the rest of us have to follow suit to park next to them and so on :greengrin

Sheep! :grr:

[Removed]

I'm not sure if you're just fishing/trolling or if you've actually made that as an attempt at a serious point.

I think that some folk keep on having bairns every few years so they can continue to park their people carriers near the front door of Tesco. Lazy bassas :agree:

[matty_f]

I think that some folk keep on having bairns every few years so they can continue to park their people carriers near the front door of Tesco. Lazy bassas :agree:

It was the only reason we had our third.:agree:

[ArabHibee]

I'm not sure if you're just fishing/trolling or if you've actually made that as an attempt at a serious point.

An attempt? Aye, whatever Matty. Colin's asking me why is it worse to park in a disabled parking space than a parent child one. Why don't you ask him if he's fishing/trolling because if he doesn't know the answer to that question then I'll be very surprised.

[Andy Bee]

I cruised into a Tesco car park for my lunch today (salad pick n mix) in me truck, probably took up 6/7 parent and child spaces although I could of got away with around 4 if it weren't for the yummy mummy I had to catch in my reversing cam :agree::greengrin.
Funny thing is I think I only squashed around four families getting to my parking space so a good day all round :agree:

[matty_f]

An attempt? Aye, whatever Matty. Colin's asking me why is it worse to park in a disabled parking space than a parent child one. Why don't you ask him if he's fishing/trolling because if he doesn't know the answer to that question then I'll be very surprised.

Colin's question was fair enough, IMHO. Both are designated spaces for specific groups, if there are standard spaces available (for those that have made the lifestyle choice to not have kids and that), then it's reasonable enough to suggest that inconsiderately parking in either type of designated space is just as bad as the other.

[Pretty Boy]

Having read this whole thread from start to finish i am just totally shocked that someone would choose to park in a space that has been set aside for parent and child parking.

Even if i'm just nipping in for a pint of milk or going to the bank machine or whatever i wouldn't even think about taking a parent/child space or a disabled space. It's just common decency as there is no reason for me to have to park right at the entrance to a store as i'm perfectly capable of walking 50 yards with little or no risk to my personal safety, i'd argue there is a far higher risk to a mother or father walking that same distance in a busy car park with a toddler or young child.

I don't have kids but i'd imagine taking a couple of young children to the shops is a pretty stressful experience. If i do ever have children i'd like to think most people would have the decency and selflesness to make it a little bit easier by leaving the designated parking bays free for their intended purpose.

[Removed]

Having read this whole thread from start to finish i am just totally shocked that someone would choose to park in a space that has been set aside for parent and child parking.

Even if i'm just nipping in for a pint of milk or going to the bank machine or whatever i wouldn't even think about taking a parent/child space or a disabled space. It's just common decency as there is no reason for me to have to park right at the entrance to a store as i'm perfectly capable of walking 50 yards with little or no risk to my personal safety, i'd argue there is a far higher risk to a mother or father walking that same distance in a busy car park with a toddler or young child.

I don't have kids but i'd imagine taking a couple of young children to the shops is a pretty stressful experience. If i do ever have children i'd like to think most people would have the decency and selflesness to make it a little bit easier by leaving the designated parking bays free for their intended purpose.

Totally shocked. Really :faf:

You only have to go to any shopping centre car park and sit and watch and you'll see it happening.

I hope you don't watch the news on the tv. Really bad stuff gets reported on there. I can't sleep some nights :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Totally shocked. Really :faf:

You only have to go to any shopping centre car park and sit and watch and you'll see it happening.

I hope you don't watch the news on the tv. Really bad stuff gets reported on there. I can't sleep some nights :agree:

Aye very good.

Yes, shocked. Maybe not so much that it happens, it would take a certain naivety to think it didn't, but shocked that someone would seem almost proud of doing it.

Might give this news business a try sometime though.

[Allant1981]

Totally shocked. Really :faf:

You only have to go to any shopping centre car park and sit and watch and you'll see it happening.

I hope you don't watch the news on the tv. Really bad stuff gets reported on there. I can't sleep some nights :agree:


Some folk might think thats a bit weird

[matty_f]

Totally shocked. Really :faf:

You only have to go to any shopping centre car park and sit and watch and you'll see it happening.

I hope you don't watch the news on the tv. Really bad stuff gets reported on there. I can't sleep some nights :agree:

To be fair, I was shocked at Arab's point of view on it (and I mean shocked in the context of this thread, not on a level of shockedness that I'd experience if say, I ever saw a badger driving a tractor, or a squirrel taking it's family on a holiday to Centre Parks, just for the swimming likes).

I can't fathom how someone could think it's not a 'bad' thing to do (again, bad in this context, not comparable with murder (or if you're American 'moidah'), burglary, drug dealing, or pigeon fancying.).

[Removed]

Some folk might think thats a bit weird

That's why I bought these (http://blog.promomachine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/binoculars-coupon.jpg) :angelic:

[SRHibs]

Don't see the issue with parking in either the disabled spaces, or the parent and child spaces, provided there's plenty of spaces available. Obviously if there were very limited disabled spaces and a disabled person was unable to park because you had taken their space, that'd be wrong. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth getting worked up about.

Kind of like priority seats on the bus really.

[Allant1981]

That's why I bought these (http://blog.promomachine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/binoculars-coupon.jpg) :angelic:


bargain at 75c, think ill need to invest in a pair!

[ArabHibee]

Colin's question was fair enough, IMHO. Both are designated spaces for specific groups, if there are standard spaces available (for those that have made the lifestyle choice to not have kids and that), then it's reasonable enough to suggest that inconsiderately parking in either type of designated space is just as bad as the other.

Sorry, I don't agree that its just as bad. As someone has already said (possibly Falkirkhibee) if there are no disabled spaces available then that restricts some disabled folks from being able to do their shopping. There not being any parent child spaces does not restrict parents as they can quite easily use one of the narrower spaces.
To park in a parent child space is inconsiderate, I'll give you that, but bad? Nah.

[matty_f]

Sorry, I don't agree that its just as bad. As someone has already said (possibly Falkirkhibee) if there are no disabled spaces available then that restricts some disabled folks from being able to do their shopping. There not being any parent child spaces does not restrict parents as they can quite easily use one of the narrower spaces.
To park in a parent child space is inconsiderate, I'll give you that, but bad? Nah.
I wouln't say it was inconsiderate, because you have considered the potential impact but decided to do it anyway, so I'd say it was selfish. Either way, both selfishness and being inconsiderate are both what I'd class as bad traits.

[johnbc70]

Sorry, I don't agree that its just as bad. As someone has already said (possibly Falkirkhibee) if there are no disabled spaces available then that restricts some disabled folks from being able to do their shopping. There not being any parent child spaces does not restrict parents as they can quite easily use one of the narrower spaces.
To park in a parent child space is inconsiderate, I'll give you that, but bad? Nah.

Is it bad if because of you parking in that space a family have to park 100 yards away and a toddler is involved in an accident and gets hit by a car and gets badly injured or worse? Or maybe it was just inconsiderate? If for some reason the family of the injured child find out you were in a designated space for parents and children and that because of this they had to park 100 yards away will they just say how inconsiderate of you?

[Don-hibee]

]Said it before, disabled and P&C bays are not enforceable in Scotland [/B](though they are in some boroughs in England).
However, they are required to be installed to get planning permission, numbers based on square footage of the store.
There is no will from the stores to manage these and it has been highlighted in the past that the numbers of these spaces are not proportional to the shopping public (1 small store had 20% of it's bays painted with a wheelchair, no mention of blue badge).
However, before I get slaughtered, I obviously agree that spaces should be made available for shoppers that have such requirements, and if we have such spaces, then they are enforced by the stores, I'd make that part of their planning permission.
FWIW, I live 2 minutes walk from a Tesco extra and ALWAYS walk there, even if I am doing a 'Big Shop', crack out the rucksack!


Think you better read this

http://news.scotsman.com/politics/60-fine-for-parking-in.5022571.jp

[Killiehibbie]

If their physical ability's that limited shouldn't they be in the wider blue badge spaces? :dunno:No, they should get made to resit their test.

[Andy Bee]

I wouln't say it was inconsiderate, because you have considered the potential impact but decided to do it anyway, so I'd say it was selfish. Either way, both selfishness and being inconsiderate are both what I'd class as bad traits.

Consider the scenario.......What if I parked in a parent and child space but then left my car to help a really, really old lady put her shopping in her boot then run to the shop door to hold it open for 35 members of the women's guild who'd been in having their weekly lunch meeting in the Tesco canteen and then made a sizeable contribution into a charity bucket to help the starving little kids in Africa followed on by buying chocolate and flowers for a checkout girl just because she looked really sad and finished off by telling every lady in the shop that their bums don't look big at all in them jeans, would I still be selfish and/or inconsiderate? :dunno:

[Twa Cairpets]

Consider the scenario.......What if I parked in a parent and child space but then left my car to help a really, really old lady put her shopping in her boot then run to the shop door to hold it open for 35 members of the women's guild who'd been in having their weekly lunch meeting in the Tesco canteen and then made a sizeable contribution into a charity bucket to help the starving little kids in Africa followed on by buying chocolate and flowers for a checkout girl just because she looked really sad and finished off by telling every lady in the shop that their bums don't look big at all in them jeans, would I still be selfish and/or inconsiderate? :dunno:

Yes. And a little creepy.

[Andy Bee]

Yes. And a little creepy.

:greengrin That's that cleared up then

[johnbc70]

Consider the scenario.......What if I parked in a parent and child space but then left my car to help a really, really old lady put her shopping in her boot then run to the shop door to hold it open for 35 members of the women's guild who'd been in having their weekly lunch meeting in the Tesco canteen and then made a sizeable contribution into a charity bucket to help the starving little kids in Africa followed on by buying chocolate and flowers for a checkout girl just because she looked really sad and finished off by telling every lady in the shop that their bums don't look big at all in them jeans, would I still be selfish and/or inconsiderate? :dunno:

Ask the women/man with kids who had to park 100 yards away because you were in the space, sure they would say a big yes that you were being inconsiderate and selfish for taking the space when you never needed it. Do you think different?

[easty]

Does anyone have any actual figures for 'number of injuries caused by selfish bassas parking in bays for people with children, resulting in a longer walk for the parent/child, and where the child has been injured but wouldn't have been if they had been able to park in the designated parent/child parking space'? Last years figures, anyone? :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Is it bad if because of you parking in that space a family have to park 100 yards away and a toddler is involved in an accident and gets hit by a car and gets badly injured or worse? Or maybe it was just inconsiderate? If for some reason the family of the injured child find out you were in a designated space for parents and children and that because of this they had to park 100 yards away will they just say how inconsiderate of you?
Probably not, they'll be too busy explaining to the police about their unsupervised child being knocked over in a car park.

[Peevemor]

P&C spaces aren't just about proximity to the shop, but also the size of the space. Anyone that's put a baby or a toddler into his/her seat with the door a third open will know what I'm speaking about.

[Mibbes Aye]

P&C spaces aren't just about proximity to the shop, but also the size of the space. Anyone that's put a baby or a toddler into his/her seat with the door a third open will know what I'm speaking about.

Real parent folk ken whut's gawn oan :agree:

[Woody1985]

Is it bad if because of you parking in that space a family have to park 100 yards away and a toddler is involved in an accident and gets hit by a car and gets badly injured or worse? Or maybe it was just inconsiderate? If for some reason the family of the injured child find out you were in a designated space for parents and children and that because of this they had to park 100 yards away will they just say how inconsiderate of you?

Whilst I see your point it would only be one small contributing factor to an accident. Perhaps the parent and car drivers in this hypothetical situation should look at themselves before seeking to blame someone for parking in the wrong space.

How do parents manage to go into anywhere built up with kids? There's no parent and child spaces in multistories etc.

Yes, it's an inconvenience but hardly the end of the world if someone uses the space.

I Don't park in them though.

[Peevemor]

Whilst I see your point it would only be one small contributing factor to an accident. Perhaps the parent and car drivers in this hypothetical situation should look at themselves before seeking to blame someone for parking in the wrong space.

How do parents manage to go into anywhere built up with kids? There's no parent and child spaces in multistories etc.

Yes, it's an inconvenience but hardly the end of the world if someone uses the space.

I Don't park in them though.

Often there are no pavements in supermarket carparks - you have to walk on the 'road', looking out for tha cars that are circulating as well as those reversing out of spaces. Also a parent with say a trolley, a baby in the trolley and 2 young kids only has so many hands.

[matty_f]

P&C spaces aren't just about proximity to the shop, but also the size of the space. Anyone that's put a baby or a toddler into his/her seat with the door a third open will know what I'm speaking about.

:agree: It can be a nightmare if someone parks too close to your car, and you have to try and squeeze a child into their seat and then manage their harnesses so that they're secured in their seats.

[matty_f]

Probably not, they'll be too busy explaining to the police about their unsupervised child being knocked over in a car park.

It's ok, the police usually aren't morons and can understand that not every kid does what it's told every second of the day, and that most parents don't have the physical capability to be in a position to see all their kids at once, assess the hazards in the area, and put kids into a car all at the same time.

They also appreciate that kids, no matter how well behaved they are, have moments where they have a rush of blood to the head and go running about.

[johnbc70]

Whilst I see your point it would only be one small contributing factor to an accident. Perhaps the parent and car drivers in this hypothetical situation should look at themselves before seeking to blame someone for parking in the wrong space.

How do parents manage to go into anywhere built up with kids? There's no parent and child spaces in multistories etc.

Yes, it's an inconvenience but hardly the end of the world if someone uses the space.

I Don't park in them though.

Yes I agree it will probably be a small contributing factor, but does that make it any better? Of course children are at risk everyday as they go to school, play with their friends etc and they have to go about their daily life. But what we are talking about here is someone deliberatly (not an accident) being selfish and inconsiderate that could lead to something happening. It may be a tiny contributing factor, but why take that chance? That is what I just do not understand. I guess it comes down to personal morals, as a parent I would never dream of parking in these spaces if I never had my kids with me. If people are happy to do so and think its OK then that is their choice, just something I and you would not do.

[marinello59]

Whilst I see your point it would only be one small contributing factor to an accident. Perhaps the parent and car drivers in this hypothetical situation should look at themselves before seeking to blame someone for parking in the wrong space.

How do parents manage to go into anywhere built up with kids? There's no parent and child spaces in multistories etc.

Yes, it's an inconvenience but hardly the end of the world if someone uses the space.

I Don't park in them though.

:agree:
The vast majority of people will respect that they are provided for the convenience of a group of people and not park in them. The tiny majority who stick their fingers up at the rest of us and park in them regardless can take some consolation from the fact they are so deeply unattractive to the decent majority, the chance of them having children themselves is pretty small.

[matty_f]

Yes I agree it will probably be a small contributing factor, but does that make it any better? Of course children are at risk everyday as they go to school, play with their friends etc and they have to go about their daily life. But what we are talking about here is someone deliberatly (not an accident) being selfish and inconsiderate that could lead to something happening. It may be a tiny contributing factor, but why take that chance? That is what I just do not understand. I guess it comes down to personal morals, as a parent I would never dream of parking in these spaces if I never had my kids with me. If people are happy to do so and think its OK then that is their choice, just something I and you would not do.

:agree: It's minimising the risks, there's scope to make the shopping experience easier and safer for parents through parent and child parking spaces. You can't wrap kids in cotton wool, but where there have been steps taken to make things safer and easier, it should be respected IMHO.

[Removed]

How do parents manage to go into anywhere built up with kids? There's no parent and child spaces in multistories etc.


You've obviously never been to Macarthur Glen then. Lots of P&C spaces and painted walkways for safe passage to the doors.

[ArabHibee]

:agree:
The vast majority of people will respect that they are provided for the convenience of a group of people and not park in them. The tiny majority who stick their fingers up at the rest of us and park in them regardless can take some consolation from the fact they are so deeply unattractive to the decent majority, the chance of them having children themselves is pretty small.
:faf:
What a load of keek.
Working on that conclusion would that mean folk who deliberately park in disabled spaces will never become disabled? :dunno:

[matty_f]

:faf:
What a load of keek.
Working on that conclusion would that mean folk who deliberately park in disabled spaces will never become disabled? :dunno:

Not unless being a munter decreases your chances of becoming disabled.

[marinello59]

:faf:
What a load of keek.
Working on that conclusion would that mean folk who deliberately park in disabled spaces will never become disabled? :dunno:

Whoosh.

[ArabHibee]

Not unless being a munter decreases your chances of becoming disabled.

You'll need to ask Marinello the answer to that question.

[marinello59]

You'll need to ask Marinello the answer to that question.

I can confirm that being an ugly wee git has no relevance to my physical capabilities.:greengrin

[Removed]

I'm at the Frankie and Benny's at the Gyle with my boys the now and I parked in a parent and child space :devil:

I might even be totally reckless tonight and have a pudding later.

[ArabHibee]

I can confirm that being an ugly wee git has no relevance to my physical capabilities.:greengrin

:doh: Accept my apologies because that certainly wasn't the reason I asked Matty to ask you. It was more for you to explain your statement that you would be a munter if you park in a P&C space.

And just out of interest (this question is not just for Marinello), how old would your kids have to be before its unacceptable to still park in a P&C place?

[Removed]

And just out of interest (this question is not just for Marinello), how old would your kids have to be before its unacceptable to still park in a P&C place?

Or a cut off time. Wee bairns should be at home in their beds now :agree:

[marinello59]

:doh: Accept my apologies because that certainly wasn't the reason I asked Matty to ask you. It was more for you to explain your statement that you would be a munter if you park in a P&C space.

And just out of interest (this question is not just for Marinello), how old would your kids have to be before its unacceptable to still park in a P&C place?

Awwww. I actually thought that was one of your funnier responses. :greengrin

I didn't say parking in a P and C space made you a munter. Rather my point was that extreme selfishness was a deeply unattractive characteristic.

How old before it is unacceptable to park in a parent and child space? I stopped using them when we didn't have to cart the buggy about anymore and therefore didn't really need it. I only had the one kid to worry about though.

[ArabHibee]

Awwww. I actually thought that was one of your funnier responses. :greengrin
I'm afraid I'm not that funny.


I didn't say parking in a P and C space made you a munter. Rather my point was that extreme selfishness was a deeply unattractive characteristic.
I hardly think it's "extremely selfish" to park in a P&C space. Selfish? Yes. Extremely? No.


How old before it is unacceptable to park in a parent and child space? I stopped using them when we didn't have to cart the buggy about anymore and therefore didn't really need it. I only had the one kid to worry about though.
Thanks for that. Question for 65bd. Do your kids still use buggys?

[Removed]

Thanks for that. Question for 65bd. Do your kids still use buggys?

Aye

[ArabHibee]

Aye

:fibber:
Watch yer nose doesn't get in the way of your Frankie & Bennys pudding!!

[Removed]

:fibber:
Watch yer nose doesn't get in the way of your Frankie & Bennys pudding!!

Ask a daft question you get a daft answer :na na:

[ArabHibee]

Ask a daft question you get a daft answer :na na:

Well I hope you realise that you are extremely selfish by using a P&C space when there was no reason for you to do so.

7291

[Removed]

Well I hope you realise that you are extremely selfish by using a P&C space when there was no reason for you to do so.

7291

I didn't want to get my new car damaged.......and there were loads of big spaces free.

[marinello59]

I'm afraid I'm not that funny.

Fair enough.:greengrin



I hardly think it's "extremely selfish" to park in a P&C space. Selfish? Yes. Extremely? No.

OK, we can disagree on the degree of selfishness.

[Beefster]

And just out of interest (this question is not just for Marinello), how old would your kids have to be before its unacceptable to still park in a P&C place?

Thirty two.

[Jack]

Having read this whole thread from start to finish i am just totally shocked that someone would choose to park in a space that has been set aside for parent and child parking.

Even if i'm just nipping in for a pint of milk or going to the bank machine or whatever i wouldn't even think about taking a parent/child space or a disabled space. It's just common decency as there is no reason for me to have to park right at the entrance to a store as i'm perfectly capable of walking 50 yards with little or no risk to my personal safety, i'd argue there is a far higher risk to a mother or father walking that same distance in a busy car park with a toddler or young child.

I don't have kids but i'd imagine taking a couple of young children to the shops is a pretty stressful experience. If i do ever have children i'd like to think most people would have the decency and selflesness to make it a little bit easier by leaving the designated parking bays free for their intended purpose.

Like common sense it seems common decency isn’t as common as we’d like to think.


Don't see the issue with parking in either the disabled spaces, or the parent and child spaces, provided there's plenty of spaces available. Obviously if there were very limited disabled spaces and a disabled person was unable to park because you had taken their space, that'd be wrong. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth getting worked up about.

Kind of like priority seats on the bus really.

The problem with that is you don't know what's going to happen, as far as disabled or P/C needs are going to be, while you're in the shop. You can see a disabled person getting on the bus and move if you're in a priority seat.

[Woody1985]

You've obviously never been to Macarthur Glen then. Lots of P&C spaces and painted walkways for safe passage to the doors.

You're right,I've not. Plus I've not had a car for about a year.:LOL:

[MyJo]

Bottom line is that for both of these types of spaces you can either be a part of a civilised community and watch out for each other by respecting facilties designed for those who need extra help, or you can be a selfish, arrogant tool. It's fairly black and white.

A parent with a toddler, a buggy and a trolley of shopping is not like a regular, adult shopper. They have more things to think about and be concerned about. Any able-bodied adult who begrudges those in that situation a reduced walk of maybe 30 yards without the need to cross a road is seriously so far up there own @rse as to be almost beyond belief.

:thumbsup:


And just out of interest (this question is not just for Marinello), how old would your kids have to be before its unacceptable to still park in a P&C place?

Most supermarkets have a pre-school age limit on P&C spaces because kids under the age of 5 are the ones with the bulky car seats and buggies and are most likely to go wandering off into the road given a moments opportunity.

[sleeping giant]

I parked in a parent and child parking space last week when i had my 11 year old with me. I only done this as i had a baby seat in the back :greengrin

I'll also have to admit to parking in one of these spaces when i was on my own and i had a child seat in the back.

I also parked in a disabled space at my local gym. There were five a sides on and no other parking spaces. I parked in the disabled space as there is 6 and they are never used. I've never seen someone in a wheelchair in that gym so i took my chances. I know folk who use wheelchairs do go to the gym but i have never seen a wheelchair user in there.


Also , these folk who use the parent and child spaces without any sign of a child seat do my head in.

At least i feel guilty about it :greengrin

[Woody1985]

Let's see if you get the level of abuse Arab does.:greengrin

[marinello59]

Let's see if you get the level of abuse Arab does.:greengrin

Several people have expressed the view that anybody parking in the Parent and Child spaces when they really don't have to are behaving selfishly. Which Arab actually agreed with. Where's the abuse?

[ArabHibee]

Several people have expressed the view that anybody parking in the Parent and Child spaces when they really don't have to are behaving selfishly. Which Arab actually agreed with. Where's the abuse?

I think "behaving selfishly" is putting it mildly. Some folk on here have been carrying on like I'm the devil incarnate for parking in a p&c space even when other folk have come on and said the same or worse (imo) bragged about parking in disabled spaces. That's where woody is coming from.

[marinello59]

I think "behaving selfishly" is putting it mildly. Some folk on here have been carrying on like I'm the devil incarnate for parking in a p&c space even when other folk have come on and said the same or worse (imo) bragged about parking in disabled spaces. That's where woody is coming from.
If you feel you are being victimised then report the abusive posts.

[ArabHibee]

If you feel you are being victimised then report the abusive posts.

Nah, I'm a big girl, I've got thick skin and I don't get myself upset with keyboard warriors on an internet forum.:greengrin

[marinello59]

Nah, I'm a big girl, I've got thick skin and I don't get myself upset with keyboard warriors on an internet forum.:greengrin

Perhaps if you were a bit more combative yourself rather than being so shy and retiring it would help. :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Perhaps if you were a bit more combative yourself rather than being so shy and retiring it would help. :greengrin

I know, I'm currently signed up for assertiveness classes but can't bring myself to go along.
:wink:

[Woody1985]

Perhaps if you were a bit more combative yourself rather than being so shy and retiring it would help. :greengrin

:tee hee:

[Jones28]

How do you know the guy does not have MS or something similiar that entitles him to a disabled badge? As far as I am aware you do not need to be restricted to using a wheelchair to entitle you to use these bays!

If the guy genuinely had MS then why would he remove the badge?

[Woody1985]

If the guy genuinely had MS then why would he remove the badge?

Stop it falling off the dash?

[ArabHibee]

If the guy genuinely had MS then why would he remove the badge?
I think someone has already answered that question but you only display the disabled parking badge when you are actually parked and not when driving.

[Removed]

I parked my new motor in a parent & child space today (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2306568969_d9a3d42923.jpg) :thumbsup: :na na:

[matty_f]

I parked my new motor in a parent & child space today (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2306568969_d9a3d42923.jpg) :thumbsup: :na na:

Saw a motor just like that at the Pitz at Sighthill on Tuesday night. Not in a parent and child space, mind you.

[Removed]

Saw a motor just like that at the Pitz at Sighthill on Tuesday night. Not in a parent and child space, mind you.

Post your joke and I'll let you drive it :wink:

[Sir David Gray]

Falkirk, if I can ask a slightly related question, what proportion of valid blue badge holders are also wheelchair users, would you say? High or low? :dunno:

Apologies for the time it's taken to reply to this question. I was away last weekend and I've only just revisited this thread tonight.

I don't have access to any reliable figures on this issue but based on my experiences and observations, I would say that most blue badge holders are not wheelchair users.

Which is quite ironic really, since the symbol on the front of a blue badge is a person in a wheelchair.