Life in the Universe

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Interested to know what other people think about the possibility of life outwith the Earth.

Personally, someone who is quite interested in this kind of topic, I reckon there must be, if nothing else simply due to numbers. More than 100 billion stars in our own Milky Way Galaxy, and with roughly 100 billion galaxies with maybe on averge 100 billion stars each , surely there has to be life somewhere out there?

Whether ET has actually visited Earth, I'm not so sure given the vast distances involved, but that does not mean there isn't intelligent life out there.

Just by watching the very interesting programmes about the Universe by the History/Geography Channell and by listening to people who are far more intelligent than myself who believe there is life out there, I myself beleives there surely has to be. What do you think?

I just cannot believe that Earth is the only planet in the Universe with intelligent life.

[clerriehibs]

Interested to know what other people think about the possibility of life outwith the Earth.

Personally, someone who is quite interested in this kind of topic, I reckon there must be, if nothing else simply due to numbers. More than 100 billion stars in our own Milky Way Galaxy, and with roughly 100 billion galaxies with maybe on averge 100 billion stars each , surely there has to be life somewhere out there?

Whether ET has actually visited Earth, I'm not so sure given the vast distances involved, but that does not mean there isn't intelligent life out there.

Just by watching the very interesting programmes about the Universe by the History/Geography Channell and by listening to people who are far more intelligent than myself who believe there is life out there, I myself beleives there surely has to be. What do you think?

I just cannot believe that Earth is the only planet in the Universe with intelligent life.

I agree, for all the reasons you give.

But nothing close by (any definition of close you want).

And because there's nothing close by, I don't think humankind will ever meet other sentient alien life. Because of the vast numbers of everything involved, I think there will be further advanced life out there, and lots of it. Some might be good, bad, passive, interfering, but there'll be all sorts.

If some method of interstellar travel at reasoanble time spans had been discovered, I think WE'D have been discovered by now. That might have been by some passive species who have just come along for a look, but I think the nasties would also have found us by now ... and we'd have known about it for all the wrong reasons.

So, the universe might be buzzing with life ... but to all intents and purposes, we're very alone and I think we always will be.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I reckon we are just a tiny molecule In a world we will never comprend. In fact we are probably little better than a virus

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

QUOTE=clerriehibs;2752336]I agree, for all the reasons you give.

But nothing close by (any definition of close you want).

And because there's nothing close by, I don't think humankind will ever meet other sentient alien life. Because of the vast numbers of everything involved, I think there will be further advanced life out there, and lots of it. Some might be good, bad, passive, interfering, but there'll be all sorts.

If some method of interstellar travel at reasoanble time spans had been discovered, I think WE'D have been discovered by now. That might have been by some passive species who have just come along for a look, but I think the nasties would also have found us by now ... and we'd have known about it for all the wrong reasons.

So, the universe might be buzzing with life ... but to all intents and purposes, we're very alone and I think we always will be[ [/QUOTE]

Maybe it's better we never find out the other worlds

Probably better we live in our own wee world until it is probably crushed by an asterioid in a few thousand/million years time and we are replaced by another world and so on.

[Dashing Bob S]

Interested to know what other people think about the possibility of life outwith the Earth.

Personally, someone who is quite interested in this kind of topic, I reckon there must be, if nothing else simply due to numbers. More than 100 billion stars in our own Milky Way Galaxy, and with roughly 100 billion galaxies with maybe on averge 100 billion stars each , surely there has to be life somewhere out there?

Whether ET has actually visited Earth, I'm not so sure given the vast distances involved, but that does not mean there isn't intelligent life out there.

Just by watching the very interesting programmes about the Universe by the History/Geography Channell and by listening to people who are far more intelligent than myself who believe there is life out there, I myself beleives there surely has to be. What do you think?

I just cannot believe that Earth is the only planet in the Universe with intelligent life.

Driving through Gorgie yesterday, Earth as containing intelligent life was not an easy concept to swallow.

Sorry about the thread hijack - I just resist having a yamdig.

[SRHibs]

Was just reading this before I saw this thread - http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal.

Quite a good read.

[Beefster]

It's almost a statistical certainty that there is life elsewhere in the universe. I reckon (from an ignoramuses viewpoint) that the entire universe is probably teeming with life. Even in our own Solar System, we've found several candidates for possible current/past life (where it could feasibly have been supported).

I don't believe that any intelligent alien life has visited Earth though. If any did, they would communicate properly rather than surreptitiously kidnapping some hill-billies and doing lovely light shows with their craft for a few randoms.

[Twa Cairpets]

I agree, for all the reasons you give.

But nothing close by (any definition of close you want).

And because there's nothing close by, I don't think humankind will ever meet other sentient alien life. Because of the vast numbers of everything involved, I think there will be further advanced life out there, and lots of it. Some might be good, bad, passive, interfering, but there'll be all sorts.

If some method of interstellar travel at reasoanble time spans had been discovered, I think WE'D have been discovered by now. That might have been by some passive species who have just come along for a look, but I think the nasties would also have found us by now ... and we'd have known about it for all the wrong reasons.

So, the universe might be buzzing with life ... but to all intents and purposes, we're very alone and I think we always will be.

Pretty much spot on I think.

[SkintHibby]

I think our galaxy and our universe is absolutely teeming with life and a small percentage of this is intelligent - still thousands upon thousands of intelligent civilisations.

I also believe that we should look away from distances as we see it. Time and space must be looked at differently. I believe intelligent civilisations can traverse the universe 'instantly'.

I also believe aliens are taking an active interest in our technology - especially our nuclear weapons.

I believe we are being visited regularly.

[heretoday]

A parallel world to ours. Stands to reason really. Maybe there are millions of them.

[matty_f]

I've seen the star wars documentaries, and they clearly depict alien life from some time back, in a galaxy quite a bit away from our own.
So, on the basis of that, I'd say it is daft to suggest that there isn't any alien life form.

[ArabHibee]

I've seen the star wars documentaries, and they clearly depict alien life from some time back, in a galaxy quite a bit away from our own.
So, on the basis of that, I'd say it is daft to suggest that there isn't any alien life form.

:hilarious

[Removed]

:hilarious

I'm sure the capital must feel like another world compared to Dundee :agree:

[ArabHibee]

I'm sure the capital must feel like another world compared to Dundee :agree:

It certainly does! The amount of alien life forms in the CAPITAL take my breath away. I mean, look at my staff canteen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRwzP23ifI

[Twa Cairpets]

...I also believe that we should look away from distances as we see it. Time and space must be looked at differently. I believe intelligent civilisations can traverse the universe 'instantly'.

I also believe aliens are taking an active interest in our technology - especially our nuclear weapons.

I believe we are being visited regularly.

What makes you believe these things?

[ArabHibee]

What makes you believe these things?

A spiritualist told him so. :agree::wink:

[Removed]

It certainly does! The amount of alien life forms in the CAPITAL take my breath away. I mean, look at my staff canteen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRwzP23ifI

Which one is Broxburn Hibee then :greengrin

[The_Exile]

Billions of galaxies with Billions of stars with an infinite number of planets in the goldilocks zone, it's just a matter of time I guess before it's confirmed, a good series starts tonight on BBC2 at 9pm called "Wonders of the Universe" brilliant series with some cracking cinematography (sp?).

[gringojoe]

This proves beyond doubt that there is other life forms in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6CoIwcJ-E

[Saorsa]

This proves beyond doubt that there is other life forms in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6CoIwcJ-E:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Removed]

This proves beyond doubt that there is other life forms in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6CoIwcJ-E

:faf:

[Bishop Hibee]

This proves beyond doubt that there is other life forms in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6CoIwcJ-E

With Oliver Postgate as the creator :not worth

[steakbake]

To use a hibs.netism, I was underwhelmed by Wonders of the Universe last night.

It seems to be another documentary in the mould in which a charismatic presenter lists facts in an awestruck voice, while sweeping cinematography and CGI are combined with Sigur-Ros type music to wow the couch-potato at home.

I prefer something much more sedate. Bring back the classic open university with stuffy tweed-enrobed bearded men writing equations on a whiteboard combined with graphics produced by top end ZX spectrum technology.

Retro is the way forward.

[Beefster]

To use a hibs.netism, I was underwhelmed by Wonders of the Universe last night.

It seems to be another documentary in the mould in which a charismatic presenter lists facts in an awestruck voice, while sweeping cinematography and CGI are combined with Sigur-Ros type music to wow the couch-potato at home.

I prefer something much more sedate. Bring back the classic open university with stuffy tweed-enrobed bearded men writing equations on a whiteboard combined with graphics produced by top end ZX spectrum technology.

Retro is the way forward.

There were lots of shots of Brian Cox looking off into the distance too. I prefer the subject matter to be the star of the show.

[steakbake]

There were lots of shots of Brian Cox looking off into the distance too. I prefer the subject matter to be the star of the show.

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf_jiLT8Ypk&feature=channel

[Green Mikey]

To use a hibs.netism, I was underwhelmed by Wonders of the Universe last night.

It seems to be another documentary in the mould in which a charismatic presenter lists facts in an awestruck voice, while sweeping cinematography and CGI are combined with Sigur-Ros type music to wow the couch-potato at home.

I prefer something much more sedate. Bring back the classic open university with stuffy tweed-enrobed bearded men writing equations on a whiteboard combined with graphics produced by top end ZX spectrum technology.

Retro is the way forward.

There is a program on National Geographic called something like 'Journey Through the Universe'. It's more old school than the Brian Cox programs and also draws opinions from a variety of experts. It is definately worth a watch.

[SkintHibby]

What makes you believe these things?

To me, the concept of not being visited at all is even stranger than being visited.

I genuinely believe our feeble minds cannot yet comprehend the relativity of space, time and distance. Einstein has got closest....to quote a line in a film 'Einstein was probably one of them....'.

Also, thousands of pilots, astronauts, radar controllers, military personnel, police officers are not all lying and hallucinating.

I try to look at things objectively and these are the conclusions I have came to.

Trust me, there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend.

[steakbake]

To me, the concept of not being visited at all is even stranger than being visited.

I genuinely believe our feeble minds cannot yet comprehend the relativity of space, time and distance. Einstein has got closest....to quote a line in a film 'Einstein was probably one of them....'.

Also, thousands of pilots, astronauts, radar controllers, military personnel, police officers are not all lying and hallucinating.

I try to look at things objectively and these are the conclusions I have came to.

Trust me, there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend.

I'm with you on this one. Quite apart from the kind of people who suggest that aliens have abducted them and revealed a special purpose for them in the Universe, there are many, many others who do not have delusions, insanity or are the kind of people who would lie about these things. Pilots for one.

This video is from Mexican Air Force pilots in 2005 who saw a number of UFOs. At one point he counts around 12 objects, in front, behind and beside him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o2j5E-uUuE

These are not delusional idiots or the kind of hapless jokers that when UFOs are generally reported in the media, witnesses are normally made out to be.

Personally, I have seen three things in my life which to me are UFOs - flying objects which I couldn't identify or rationalise.

[Beefster]

To me, the concept of not being visited at all is even stranger than being visited.

I genuinely believe our feeble minds cannot yet comprehend the relativity of space, time and distance. Einstein has got closest....to quote a line in a film 'Einstein was probably one of them....'.

Also, thousands of pilots, astronauts, radar controllers, military personnel, police officers are not all lying and hallucinating.

I try to look at things objectively and these are the conclusions I have came to.

Trust me, there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend.

That argument could be used to argue for the existence of God, fairies, leprechauns at the end of rainbows, ghosts, demons and goblins.

I'm fairly sure scientists have built on Einstein's work so there are many who have a better understanding of physics than Einstein ever did. That's the nature of science (and doesn't make Einstein any less brilliant).

I don't think someone's job makes them any less liable to seeing things that they can't explain. Even then I'm not sure how you then go on to make the leap that a strange light or shape in the sky equates to alien intelligent life.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Prefer to go with Douglas Adams' theory. The number of planets in the universe is infinite. We know some of them do not have alien life therefore the number of planets with life is less than infinite therefore must be finite. Infinty divided by a finite number is as close to zero as you can get. Ergo, we do not exist never mind alien life. :wink:

[HibsMax]

I'm positive there is other life in the universe....maybe even other universes similar to this one.

There are a few problems that we have to face when considering making contact with these other life forms:
1. distance - the universe is <insert word that means bigger than anything you can get your head around>. It's going to take us a long time just to get to Mars, never mind another galaxy. There is so much empty space out there, if only we could zip through it in the blink of an eye.....

2. time - our lifespan is just too short. Even if we could travel at the speed of light it's going to take us generations to reach other galaxies.

3. technology - we are nowhere close to traveling at the speed of light.

4. hostile environment - even though the bulk of outer space is empty, it's still full of potential disasters, radiation being probably the most dangerous of these.

We could spend years and trillions of dollars developing technology to reach other galaxies and all it would take is one small miscalculation or random occurrence to end it all and send us back to the drawing board.

As advanced as we think we are, I actually think that we're at the beginning of the curve. Who knows what we might discover in 10, 50 or 100 years?

I watched a show that said nothing can move faster than the speed of light.........well, except for space that is. The notion put forward that space is expanding faster than the speed of light.......so the speed of light is not a limiting factor. I wonder if we'll be able to harness that power sometime.

I dunno, there are lots of questions, even more answers but it's a lot of fun to think about.

[Andy74]

On a slightly related topic does anyone get a bit freaked out looking up at the stars and things.

I'm quite interested in stars and planets and have begun with binoculars but going out and looking up I begin to feel a bit uneasy.

Now, it may be that I'm just scared of the dark and looking up and not around means I am vulerable to get it from whatever lurlks in the dark but I'm not sure, I think it has something more to do with comprehending what it is you are looking at.

Anyone else, or just me?!

[steakbake]

On a slightly related topic does anyone get a bit freaked out looking up at the stars and things.

I'm quite interested in stars and planets and have begun with binoculars but going out and looking up I begin to feel a bit uneasy.

Now, it may be that I'm just scared of the dark and looking up and not around means I am vulerable to get it from whatever lurlks in the dark but I'm not sure, I think it has something more to do with comprehending what it is you are looking at.

Anyone else, or just me?!

Nah, it freaks me out as well. Especially if you are in a part of the world where there is very little light pollution and you can see millions of stars.

The feeling I get when looking upwards into the dark is first of all a sense of wonder, gradually replaced by a crushing sense of insignificance twinned with a sense of dread at your own mortality. We are nothing yet to us, we are the centre of our own universe

(Cue Sigur Ros and CGI graphics).

[Peevemor]

Prefer to go with Douglas Adams' theory. The number of planets in the universe is infinite. We know some of them do not have alien life therefore the number of planets with life is less than infinite therefore must be finite. Infinty divided by a finite number is as close to zero as you can get. Ergo, we do not exist never mind alien life. :wink:

Should that not be the other way round? Infinity divided by anything (except infinity) is still infinity.

[Twa Cairpets]

To me, the concept of not being visited at all is even stranger than being visited.

I genuinely believe our feeble minds cannot yet comprehend the relativity of space, time and distance. Einstein has got closest....to quote a line in a film 'Einstein was probably one of them....'.

Also, thousands of pilots, astronauts, radar controllers, military personnel, police officers are not all lying and hallucinating.

I try to look at things objectively and these are the conclusions I have came to.

Trust me, there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend.


OK. But to chuck a few questions back:

If there are UFO's, why is it that they are never seen by mass witnesses (and when they have they have been comprehensively debunked such as the "Phoenix Lights" or Rendlesham Forest, and even Roswell).

If someone travels thousands of light years do you not think it a wee bit odd that that they would only appear fleetingly to avanishingly small number of individuals.

Why, as per your earlier post, do you believe they have a particular interest in nuclear weapons?

Isnt odd that the concept of life in Space has only taken grip really in the last 100 years or so, co-incidentally with Hollywood. (How many reports are there of Victorian UFO's)?

And to use an argument from another thread, how do you know the UFOs that have been seen are aliens and aren't ghosts?

I actually do believe that life elsewhere in the Universe is almost a certainty. I just dont believe we will ever, ever have any direct contact.

[Sylar]

Isnt odd that the concept of life in Space has only taken grip really in the last 100 years or so, co-incidentally with Hollywood. (How many reports are there of Victorian UFO's)?



There are MANY reports of UFO's which predate our modern fascination with the Universe.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

[lapsedhibee]

This proves beyond doubt that there is other life forms in the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok6CoIwcJ-E

Tbh, not at all convinced by that documentary. For a start, the narrator seems to use 'planet' and 'star' interchangeably. The creatures were depicted as living on the surface of a 'star' which can't be right - it'd be too hot even with very high factor sunblock.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm quite interested in stars and planets and have begun with binoculars but going out and looking up I begin to feel a bit uneasy.


Normal to feel queasy due to motion sickness - the surface of the planet you're travelling on, while you're trying to focus, is moving at 1000mph.

Homeopathic remedies are available for this.

[Twa Cairpets]

There are MANY reports of UFO's which predate our modern fascination with the Universe.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

Interesting site.

It does seem to come from the stance of prejudgement rather than skepticism or attempts to shoe-horn-mysticism into the whole thing. For example, some of the descriptions of the pictures are:

7,000 B.C. - The Lolladoff plate, discovered in Nepal, appears to show a hovering disk-shaped object in the center and a small being, resembling an alien resembling an alien gray, beside it. The circular pattern is reminescent of the spiraling movement of consciousness - Golden Ratio - Sacred Geometry of creation.

or

Ancient Figures in Space Suits

or

They found various reliefs showing "humans" in strange clothes which looked like astronaut suits (hose like objects attached to the clothes). They also found a painting which apparently resembled the solar system. The third and fourth circle (planet) were connected with a line. Also there were ten planets (excluding the sun as planet). This connects easily to the theories about Nibiru, planet X, etc.

For some of the more modern pictures allegedly with UFO's in the background (such as the "Summers Triumph" tapestry), it does strike me as a odd that the artist has focssed on the depiction of a joyous summer festival and incidentally think to add "oh yeh, we should really think to include a nodding reference to the great big metal domes hanging in the sky" rather than having it as the big huge massively important centrepiece.

Still interesting site though, I'm going to have a wee dig into a few of them

[Beefster]

Normal to feel queasy due to motion sickness - the surface of the planet you're travelling on, while you're trying to focus, is moving at 1000mph.

Homeopathic remedies are available for this.

It's worse than that. Earth is rotating the centre of the galaxy at something like 500,000 mph.

[Andy Bee]

Given the infinite nature of the galaxy, infinite amount of stars/planets etc then surely it stands to reason that there is an infinite number of Andy Bees posting this same message on an infinite number of hibs.net sites. Which begs the question, do I get the introduce a friend offer and is hibs.net setup to receive inter stellar payments?

[SkintHibby]

OK. But to chuck a few questions back:

If there are UFO's, why is it that they are never seen by mass witnesses (and when they have they have been comprehensively debunked such as the "Phoenix Lights" or Rendlesham Forest, and even Roswell).

If someone travels thousands of light years do you not think it a wee bit odd that that they would only appear fleetingly to avanishingly small number of individuals.

Why, as per your earlier post, do you believe they have a particular interest in nuclear weapons?

Isnt odd that the concept of life in Space has only taken grip really in the last 100 years or so, co-incidentally with Hollywood. (How many reports are there of Victorian UFO's)?

And to use an argument from another thread, how do you know the UFOs that have been seen are aliens and aren't ghosts?

I actually do believe that life elsewhere in the Universe is almost a certainty. I just dont believe we will ever, ever have any direct contact.

Great questions there TC and loads I don't have the answers to...

I have no idea why they don't appear to loads of people...You maybe seen a No.26 bus today whilst I and many others never because we were not in the right place at the right time.

In UFO circles, there is certainly a lot of nonsense out there. Roswell? Nah, don't believe it, Phoenix Lights, sorry but they were military flares being dropped from aircraft.

You mention the Rendlesham Forest incident being 'debunked'. How? When? Tell me more?
As far as I'm concerned this is a 'true' alien spacecraft. Dozens of air force miltary men wandering the woods chasing a lighthouse light? Nah, don't think so!

You also mention UFO's only being here for 100 years. In it's modern form, it has been less that that - since WW2 actually. The amount of sightings only grew exponentially after the advent of nuclear weapons.
UFO's have actually been around since forever.

Again, I dont know why they would take an interest in nuclear weapons (and nuclear power stations) - maybe they have an interest in our well being?

I really do believe a small percentage of reports are 'true' alien spacecraft though.

One last thing - on YouTube, listen to Betty Hill recount the abduction of herself and her husband and come back and tell me she was lying.

[Twa Cairpets]

Great questions there TC and loads I don't have the answers to...

I have no idea why they don't appear to loads of people...You maybe seen a No.26 bus today whilst I and many others never because we were not in the right place at the right time.

In UFO circles, there is certainly a lot of nonsense out there. Roswell? Nah, don't believe it, Phoenix Lights, sorry but they were military flares being dropped from aircraft.

You mention the Rendlesham Forest incident being 'debunked'. How? When? Tell me more?
As far as I'm concerned this is a 'true' alien spacecraft. Dozens of air force miltary men wandering the woods chasing a lighthouse light? Nah, don't think so!

You also mention UFO's only being here for 100 years. In it's modern form, it has been less that that - since WW2 actually. The amount of sightings only grew exponentially after the advent of nuclear weapons.
UFO's have actually been around since forever.

Again, I dont know why they would take an interest in nuclear weapons (and nuclear power stations) - maybe they have an interest in our well being?

I really do believe a small percentage of reports are 'true' alien spacecraft though.

One last thing - on YouTube, listen to Betty Hill recount the abduction of herself and her husband and come back and tell me she was lying.

There's quite a bit out there on Rendlesham, and to my mind the most balanced debunk is from Skeptoid (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4135) (you can either listen to the podcast or read the transcription - it's worth it if you're interested in these things). Jumping ahead, I think Rendlesham does, however, give a better basis for discussion than the Hill abduction. I think this is a very, very dubious story on which to base a belief in UFO's/aliens. For consistency, I'll offer another Skeptoid (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4124) review of the case, but there are lotsof others.

As for the timescale, I do tend to agree. I had a look at some of TSSF pictures, and sorry, Im not buying it. To digress for a moment, I looked into two of the images from the link TSSF gave:

1) The Kiev astronaut. There is no evidence anywhere that I can find relating to this item concernign where it was found, who dated it, where it is displayed etc. Nothing to suggest at all that it is authentic. It might be, but I couldnt find anything, and for such an important artifact one would have thought there would have been a greater record.

2) Toengt'ing lake picture. This is the one with the Samurai-looking astronauts in hovering pods. Every reference to this image I could find had exactly the same wording as the site TSSF linked to. Not a single reference I could find to original source. Repeating the same story hundreds of times doesnt constitute any evidence or explanation as to its provenance.

The link you make to nuclear is potentially just co-incidental. Unless there is any evidence to the contrary, it could be that the the post WW2 boom in sightings is due to their fascination with the processing of oil into plastics or with mankinds stated aim to leave the confines of Earths atmosphere or with introduction of mass wireless comunication.

I personally still suspect that as radio, tv, film and books use the concept of alien life and spacecraft as the basis for their output, people become more suggestible and susceptible to "seeing things".

I also agree that there are lots of UFO sightings that are unexplained, but that does not mean that they are unexplainable or that the default position for lack of explanation is alien. It just means that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclusively prove what it is.

[Hibrandenburg]

We're just jumped up bacteria with boots on so I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be other life out there that's higher up the food chain.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Should that not be the other way round? Infinity divided by anything (except infinity) is still infinity.

Boogered if I know!!!!! The quote might be other way round now I think of it. A finite number divided by infinity must be zero:confused:

[Twa Cairpets]

Boogered if I know!!!!! The quote might be other way round now I think of it. A finite number divided by infinity must be zero:confused:

"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination"

Douglas Adams, The restaurant at the end of the Universe.

[Lucius Apuleius]

"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination"

Douglas Adams, The restaurant at the end of the Universe.

Thats the baby!!!!! :greengrin

[sleeping giant]

I change my stance on this daily :greengrin

Most of the time i think that there "must be other life" due to the sheer number of potentially habitable worlds.

Life may have started here and we may very well populate the universe with other life in the future.

We see things through our reality and push the boundaries of comprehension through science and philosophy but our outlook is based on a tiny percentage of the visable spectrum.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we think that our comprehension is all that exists.



I read somewhere that the universe cannot be infinite . If it were infinite , this point in time would not exist which would mean we would not exist:greengrin

Today Mathew , im going to say without any uncertainty that life only exists here on Earth.
Tomorrow i will most likely change my mind :greengrin


edit : just to add that that made a lot more sense in my mind compared to what came out via the keyboard :-)

[sleeping giant]

Plato's cave anyone :dunno:

[BroxburnHibee]

Which one is Broxburn Hibee then :greengrin

Can't see me....stuck in the kitchen as usual :greengrin

[Removed]

Can't see me....stuck in the kitchen as usual :greengrin

:greengrin

That's what Arab always said before asking me to describe you :lips seal

[haagsehibby]

To use a hibs.netism, I was underwhelmed by Wonders of the Universe last night.

It seems to be another documentary in the mould in which a charismatic presenter lists facts in an awestruck voice, while sweeping cinematography and CGI are combined with Sigur-Ros type music to wow the couch-potato at home.

I prefer something much more sedate. Bring back the classic open university with stuffy tweed-enrobed bearded men writing equations on a whiteboard combined with graphics produced by top end ZX spectrum technology.

Retro is the way forward.

I was amazed to find out the other day that Prof Brian Cox used to be the lead singer of D-Ream !!

[Andy74]

I was amazed to find out the other day that Prof Brian Cox used to be the lead singer of D-Ream !!

Nah, he was a keyboard player.

[haagsehibby]

Nah, he was a keyboard player.

Indeed he was. I stand corrected !!

[RyeSloan]

I'm certan there is 'life' elsewhere in the Universe. However it's maybe not 'life' as we would understand it.

I'm unsure on the UFO idea but I'm pretty sure that Aliens with the ability to travel the almost unimaginable distances involved would also have the abilty to visit unseen if they wanted to...I'm unsure why they would visit in a way they could maybe be seen but then not make contact in any meaningful way....maybe they just don't care!

It's also worth noting that the Universe is still reltively young so life may yet not be widespread as it eventually might be and of cousr humans have only existed in a vanishingly small time period of that life time so we may have simply not have existed long enough to have any meaningful chance of engagement.

Is a facinating question though!

[SkintHibby]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.
Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

[lapsedhibee]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.
Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

:agree: And they will get into arguments, and even fights, about football teams. That's how advanced they will be.

[Sylar]

:agree: And they will get into arguments, and even fights, about football teams. That's how advanced they will be.

I bet the cries of "you Orange bas*ard" have quite a different meaning though :greengrin

[Godsahibby]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

Insects on this planet are only the size the are due to the earths gravity restricting the growth of the exoskeleton. On other planets depending on the gravity they could grow much bigger.

[SkintHibby]

Insects on this planet are only the size the are due to the earths gravity restricting the growth of the exoskeleton. On other planets depending on the gravity they could grow much bigger.

WOW!, you're good!:wink:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Insects on this planet are only the size the are due to the earths gravity restricting the growth of the exoskeleton. On other planets depending on the gravity they could grow much bigger.

but what about the insects that moult there shell when they outgrow it*:confused:


*gotta love wikipedia :greengrin

[Ritchie]

i've always thought we are stuck in a huge loop like an extremely long groundhog day! :agree:

the world is created.... life begins.... life ends... world ends......then it all starts over again!

and thats how deja vu occurs!! :wink:

[Godsahibby]

but what about the insects that moult there shell when they outgrow it*:confused:


*gotta love wikipedia :greengrin

I reckon the same theory would still apply, they can only get to be a certain size.

[HibsMax]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.
Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

Unless other life forms are so advanced that they have no need for things such as food or water....or even a physical body....

[--------]

Prefer to go with Douglas Adams' theory. The number of planets in the universe is infinite. We know some of them do not have alien life therefore the number of planets with life is less than infinite therefore must be finite. Infinty divided by a finite number is as close to zero as you can get. Ergo, we do not exist never mind alien life. :wink:


Infinity divided by a finite number is still infinity.

Any finite number divided by zero is infinity.

Zero divided by anything is zero.

A straight line is the arc of the circumference of a circle radius infinity.

Parallel lines meet at infinity.

Or so my old maths teacher told me many years ago.

(Mind you, his name was Zorron and I think he was an alien....)


I think I'd go with Gil Grissom in CSI - "I'm sure if there is something out there, looking down on us from somewhere else in the universe, they're wise enough to stay away from us."

[MyJo]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.
Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

Evolution has made us the way we are not the other way about. We're adapted to this planet and the environments that we live in, life on other planets will have to cope with completely different environments and therefore the dominant, most advanced species will be the ones who have the type of bodies most suited to that environment.

A humanoid style body wouldn't be any good on a planet with high gravity because legs would be useless and they couldn't "walk" in the same way as we do, same goes for low gravity where, again, legs would be pointless if the environment means you dont rest on the ground anyway. There are a billion other variables such as planet temperature, proximity to other planets/moons, atmosphere, lack or abundance of water, energy sources and so on and so on that would have major impacts on the form and development of life forms on other planets so unless there is another planet with precisely the same conditions (water, atmosphere, gravity, proximity to the sun, size & age of our sun, moon etc) and followed the same development pattern including collisions with other planets, meteor impacts, ice ages and so on over the past billion years the overwhelming odds are that ET will be vastly different to us.

[Beefster]

Another thing to note is that any intelligent life will be similar to us.

Our fingers and hands have allowed us to manipulate tools therefore evolve - so ET's will have them too.
They will have eyes on the front of their head.
They will probably have a nose above their mouth - so that food can be smelled before tasted.
They will walk upright.
They will not be insectoid - Insects because of their structure can only be so big.
Their brain will be inside their head for maximum protection.
They will have two eyes and two ears like us to judge distance of an object and where a sound emanates from.
They will have lost most bodily hair.

The way we are made has allowed us to evolve and vice versa. The same will apply to ET's.

I'm sure this will have been pointed out but this is nonsense.

Life on Earth has evolved to deal with the circumstances on Earth. Other environments with completely different variables will lead to completely different outcomes.

Try reading this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolving_the_Alien

[Since90+2]

Came across this video that might be of some interest to posters in this thread

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8298744/UFO-hovers-over-Jerusalem-shrine.html

[Twa Cairpets]

Debunked here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0)

[steakbake]

Debunked here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0)

Great. That totally clears that up then.

[Jones28]

I was as underwhelmed by "Wonders of the Universe" last night as I was overwhelmed. No doubt Brian Cox is a knowledgeable man and as good as anyone for facts and stats, but the way he flits about really irritates me. Last night he went from Africa to Canada. The week before he went from England to Africa again. It's annoying...thats the only way I can describe it TBH :dunno:

Going back to the original topic, I have no doubt that somewhere out in the Universe there is another Solar System with the right conditions for life to develop. But we will never know, as by the time means of discovering this are invented we will be gone. Either that or we get hold of some Dylithium Crystals...

[Jones28]

I'm sure this will have been pointed out but this is nonsense.

Life on Earth has evolved to deal with the circumstances on Earth. Other environments with completely different variables will lead to completely different outcomes.

Try reading this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolving_the_Alien

As good a point as that is, there are only certain parameters within which life can evolve. If there is other life, it will have developed in similar circumstances

[--------]

Debunked here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0)


I believe that the frequency of UFO sightings in West Lothian can be accounted for by three factors:


the factor that West Lothian lies under the flight-paths from both Glasgow and Edinburgh Airports (Edinburgh low-level, Glasgow much higher) which accounts for all the moving, flashing lights in the sky;


the factor that many of those reporting them are driving their cars at the time and can't possibly make accurate observations of whatever it is they think they're seeing;


and the factor that at 2 or 3 in the morning, when many of the sightings have occurred, most scientific observers in West Lothian are severely impaired by alcoholic drink.


And they think I'm daft for believing what I believe. :rolleyes:

[easty]

As good a point as that is, there are only certain parameters within which life can evolve. If there is other life, it will have developed in similar circumstances

Well. That we know of.

We can't claim to know how life has/can evolve in other parts of the universe. We can't even put a person on the surface of the closest planet to us, so perhaps we don't know everything just yet.

[Twa Cairpets]

I believe that the frequency of UFO sightings in West Lothian can be accounted for by three factors:


the factor that West Lothian lies under the flight-paths from both Glasgow and Edinburgh Airports (Edinburgh low-level, Glasgow much higher) which accounts for all the moving, flashing lights in the sky;


the factor that many of those reporting them are driving their cars at the time and can't possibly make accurate observations of whatever it is they think they're seeing;


and the factor that at 2 or 3 in the morning, when many of the sightings have occurred, most scientific observers in West Lothian are severely impaired by alcoholic drink.


And they think I'm daft for believing what I believe. :rolleyes:

Is Bonnybridge not Falkirk rather than West Lothian? :wink:

Is it just me or has that whole "Bonnybridge triangle" thing not died a death now? Maybe the aliens just despaired of finding intelligent life...

[GhostofBolivar]

As an aside, I always loved this (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347)

[GhostofBolivar]

The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, yet humans have only been around for 200,000 years. Human civilisation began about 20,000 years ago and has only been capable of looking into space with any understanding for a few hundred.

If life on other planets follows the same pattern, it may be too brief a phenomenon for us to ever hope to find anything intelligent.

We'd have to have come to maturity at the same time and in the same general locale as another species. We'd have to be recognisable as life to the other and capable of something recognisable communication with the other.

I believe that another form of intelligent life has existed, does exist or will exist. The universe is simply too large for it not to. However, the odds are stacked against us ever finding any.

[easty]

The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, yet humans have only been around for 200,000 years. Human civilisation began about 20,000 years ago and has only been capable of looking into space with any understanding for a few hundred.

If life on other planets follows the same pattern, it may be too brief a phenomenon for us to ever hope to find anything intelligent.

We'd have to have come to maturity at the same time and in the same general locale as another species. We'd have to be recognisable as life to the other and capable of something recognisable communication with the other.

I believe that another form of intelligent life has existed, does exist or will exist. The universe is simply too large for it not to. However, the odds are stacked against us ever finding any.

I wouldn't particularly agree with that last sentance. It could happen this year, It might happen in 20 years, maybe in 200 years. In our lifetime it's almost certain we won't have the technology to go find life on another planet, but we have absolutley no way of knowing what alien life is capable of.

[HibsMax]

The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, yet humans have only been around for 200,000 years. Human civilisation began about 20,000 years ago and has only been capable of looking into space with any understanding for a few hundred.

If life on other planets follows the same pattern, it may be too brief a phenomenon for us to ever hope to find anything intelligent.

We'd have to have come to maturity at the same time and in the same general locale as another species. We'd have to be recognisable as life to the other and capable of something recognisable communication with the other.

I believe that another form of intelligent life has existed, does exist or will exist. The universe is simply too large for it not to. However, the odds are stacked against us ever finding any.


I wouldn't particularly agree with that last sentance. It could happen this year, It might happen in 20 years, maybe in 200 years. In our lifetime it's almost certain we won't have the technology to go find life on another planet, but we have absolutley no way of knowing what alien life is capable of.

The biggest issues we have of ever finding life somewhere else are:
1. time
2. the speed of light

For the sake of argument, not reality, let's say that humans have been expertly looking into the skies for 1000 years. The light that is generated or reflected from every system that is farther than 1000 light years away from us hasn't even reached us yet. All light that has reached us before that point in time went unnoticed because we weren't looking for it.

Any life that is beyond 70 light years from us hasn't even heard our radio transmissions yet.

Consider a planet that IS watching us. Let's say it's 70 light years away. They're busy watching World War II. The farther away the planet, the further back in Earth time they're seeing. Of course this assumes they have technology that shows Earth as more than a mere pixel...

EDIT : for us to truly explore the universe we need to figure out how to defeat the limitations put on us by time and speed of travel. Whether that means travelling faster than the speed of light or find ways to travel through time, I don't know. Even if you could put a crew of scientists in suspended animation for a thousand years, where would they end up? Who knows?

[Dashing Bob S]

The biggest issues we have of ever finding life somewhere else are:
1. time
2. the speed of light

For the sake of argument, not reality, let's say that humans have been expertly looking into the skies for 1000 years. The light that is generated or reflected from every system that is farther than 1000 light years away from us hasn't even reached us yet. All light that has reached us before that point in time went unnoticed because we weren't looking for it.

Any life that is beyond 70 light years from us hasn't even heard our radio transmissions yet.

Consider a planet that IS watching us. Let's say it's 70 light years away. They're busy watching World War II. The farther away the planet, the further back in Earth time they're seeing. Of course this assumes they have technology that shows Earth as more than a mere pixel...

EDIT : for us to truly explore the universe we need to figure out how to defeat the limitations put on us by time and speed of travel. Whether that means travelling faster than the speed of light or find ways to travel through time, I don't know. Even if you could put a crew of scientists in suspended animation for a thousand years, where would they end up? Who knows?

With their limitless resources, I'm surprised that Hearts aren't already actively investigating this. They could surely run a research program, after all they would only own the incurred debt to themselves, and presumably, if they managed to get back in time they'd be able to retrospectively write of any project costs through creative accounting.

They might even send Ian Black back to May '86, so that he could put in a crippling tackle on Albert Kidd, thus enabling the Gorgie men to close out the last seven minutes of that historic league decider, and bring the championship back to the PBS.