Are we seeing a positive change in attitude towards homosexual sportsmen?

[Pretty Boy]

After rugby player Gareth Thomas 'came out' as being gay last year and was backed by his fellow pros and supporters, already this year we have seen ex cycling champion Graeme Obree confirm he is gay and in the last couple of days England cricketer Steven Davies has also come out.

Are we witnessing a change in attitudes amongst sports supporters and society in general? When you think back to some of the abuse suffered by Justin Fahanu it certainly seems so. I wonder how long we will have to wait for a gay footballer to feel comfortable enough to be open about his sexuality and how football fans will react.

[Woody1985]

As in a HIV+ kind of way? :devil:

Football fans will react by calling them poofy *******s and all other sorts of names. I very much doubt that anyone really cares that much but it gives people the opportunity to come up with songs related to the individual.

If Paul hartley was really gay then I'm sure there would have been a **** storm in the papers.

[legends of 73]

As in a HIV+ kind of way? :devil:

Football fans will react by calling them poofy *******s and all other sorts of names. I very much doubt that anyone really cares that much but it gives people the opportunity to come up with songs related to the individual.

If Paul hartley was really gay then I'm sure there would have been a **** storm in the papers.

:greengrin:greengrin

[The Slav]

will this be the first sportsman that can actually say that he really does bat for the other side.

:wink:

[legends of 73]

will this be the first sportsman that can actually say that he really does bat for the other side.

:wink:

:faf::faf::faf:

[legends of 73]

another faggot debate on the way :agree::agree::tin hat::tin hat:

[Greentinted]

I'd like to think that homophobia is as good as dead these days and hopefully its only a matter of time before its even worthy of comment.
I may have said before, we all have some kind of morbid fixation with what other people do with there genitalia and disproportionatise it so maybe in a few years time it'll be deemed completely irrelevant.
I still remember the minor furore regarding Hans Gillhaus in the late 80s and of course the grief Justin Fashanu was subject to (even at the hands of his brother), and so hopefully these days will stay where they belong, in the memories of football's dark ages.

[The Slav]

I'd like to think that homophobia is as good as dead these days and hopefully its only a matter of time before its even worthy of comment.
I may have said before, we all have some kind of morbid fixation with what other people do with there genitalia and disproportionatise it so maybe in a few years time it'll be deemed completely irrelevant.
I still remember the minor furore regarding Hans Gillhaus in the late 80s and of course the grief Justin Fashanu was subject to (even at the hands of his brother), and so hopefully these days will stay where they belong, in the memories of football's dark ages.

Aye, but it's still funny to have a laugh about it

and if we didn't have that morbid fascination, the porn industry would be dead and buried, so what would you do when you get home from the pub with your kebab at 3am

Chillax :dummytit:

[Woody1985]

I'd like to think that homophobia is as good as dead these days and hopefully its only a matter of time before its even worthy of comment.
I may have said before, we all have some kind of morbid fixation with what other people do with there genitalia and disproportionatise it so maybe in a few years time it'll be deemed completely irrelevant.
I still remember the minor furore regarding Hans Gillhaus in the late 80s and of course the grief Justin Fashanu was subject to (even at the hands of his brother), and so hopefully these days will stay where they belong, in the memories of football's dark ages.

Do you work in a fudge packing factory?

[Greentinted]

Aye, but it's still funny to have a laugh about it

If you think its ok to have a laugh about it, knock yersel oot mate. Some people think its no big deal.

and if we didn't have that morbid fascination, the porn industry would be dead and buried, so what would you do when you get home from the pub with your kebab at 3am

Last time I was able to access a real person. But again, crack on cracking one off.

Chillax (I refer you to a certain Mr K Bridges who describes those who use the word chillax far better than I can) :dummytit:




Do you work in a fudge packing factory?

Oh ma sides...

And this is the predicatble ill-informed 'banter' that means gay footballers may be reticent to 'come out'.
I have gay pals of both genders, some of whom are still recalcitrant to admit their sexuality in public. Is it any wonder why?

[Future17]

I'd like to think that homophobia is as good as dead these days and hopefully its only a matter of time before its even worthy of comment.
I may have said before, we all have some kind of morbid fixation with what other people do with there genitalia and disproportionatise it so maybe in a few years time it'll be deemed completely irrelevant.
I still remember the minor furore regarding Hans Gillhaus in the late 80s and of course the grief Justin Fashanu was subject to (even at the hands of his brother), and so hopefully these days will stay where they belong, in the memories of football's dark ages.

Is Hans Gillhaus gay?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is Hans Gillhaus gay?

:rolleyes:

[Greentinted]

Is Hans Gillhaus gay?

Apparently so. There was a bit of discord in the camp not long after he signed and while there is limited online linkage I worked in football from 1988 until 2005 and this came up quite often. (One of the clubs I had dealings with was Aberdeen and the guys I had dealings with were acceptant of it but not particularly bothered) Also, Theo Schnelders (sp) was mooted as being gay but that one seems more malicious than anything else.

[Aaron]

As in a HIV+ kind of way? :devil:


Do you work in a fudge packing factory?

I would like to think that they are but with comments like this there is still a long way to go.

[legends of 73]

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:



Do you work in a fudge packing factory?

[The Slav]

Aye, but it's still funny to have a laugh about it

If you think its ok to have a laugh about it, knock yersel oot mate. Some people think its no big deal.

Think you are missing the point - not being homophobic, just having a laugh at someone elses expense. It's tough being a sheep-****ger in Leith - since you are so keen to try and quote comedians, if it wasn't for the odd "joke" or two, these guys would have no career.


and if we didn't have that morbid fascination, the porn industry would be dead and buried, so what would you do when you get home from the pub with your kebab at 3am

Last time I was able to access a real person. But again, crack on cracking one off.

Sure your "partner" would be happy to know that see it as having access - does that mean taking them to MacDonalds on a Saturday afternoon

Chillax (I refer you to a certain Mr K Bridges who describes those who use the word chillax far better than I can) :dummytit:

How - can you not think of anything funny to say yourself

Oh ma sides...

And this is the predicatble ill-informed 'banter' that means gay footballers may be reticent to 'come out'.
I have gay pals of both genders, some of whom are still recalcitrant to admit their sexuality in public. Is it any wonder why?

Me-thinks that the man doth protesteth too much.

Wonder if you bought a ticket for the front row of a Frankie Boyle show, you would be the first to flap your arms about sexist/racist/homophobic/disabled material.

Or perhaps you would refuse to buy a ticket on the grounds of sexist/racist/homophobic/disabled material, but secretly have a s****** to yourself.

[Woody1985]

Looks like I won't go hungry tonight with all that fish.

Personally I couldn't care if someone is gay but have sung the hartley song. Where does that leave me? Not between two guys called harry hopefully.

[Greentinted]

Me-thinks that the man doth protesteth too much.

The implication being that you believe me to be both male and homosexual - and if that is the case, so what? (and if you're goanny paraphrase Shakespeare, at least do it the right way round - "The lady doth protest too much, methinks")

Wonder if you bought a ticket for the front row of a Frankie Boyle show, you would be the first to flap your arms about sexist/racist/homophobic/disabled material.

Boyle is a one-trick-pony and after hearing his kitsch once it's no longer particularly funny.

Or perhaps you would refuse to buy a ticket on the grounds of sexist/racist/homophobic/disabled material, but secretly have a s****** to yourself.

See above



Bottom line (and I choose that phrase carefully) is that if you, and others, feel it necessary to derive humour/banter at the expense of someone else's difference then hey, bash on. Gay bashing is still obviously alive and well, and diverting attention from the sexuality of ones self onto a perceived sexual orientaion of others smacks of 'protesting too much' to me, but what do I know?

And if you still think its a subject of innocent mithmaking I direct tyou to someone who was once close to me (in a platonic way should justification be applicable) who took his own life because of the bullying abuse he was subject to simply because he was gay!

Oh the banter. Hilarious eh?

[Pretty Boy]

Utterly predictable responses on this thread. Think i have my answer over whether we would see more enlightened attitudes compared to those experienced by the likes of Fashanu.

It seems to me that homophobia is something that is 'socially acceptable' in a way that racism or, dare i say, sexism no longer is. I'm not saying that there isn't a way that homosexuality can be incorporated into a joke and be funny but jokes about HIV, fudge packers etc etc do people really still find that funny? Genuine question.

Theres pretty much no excuse for making jokes about '******s' or 'pakis' or whatever because it's racist and people wouldn't accept it, why should homosexuality be different? People don't choose to be gay so why should jokes about 'faggots' or 'poofs' be any more acceptable in the eyes of some people?

I'm not even getting into the Paul Hartley song because it's been done to death. It's just a shame that what i thought may have been an interesting discussion has been hi-jacked by jokes i'd expect from 13 year old boys who don't know any better.

I now await the oh so witty 'PC Brigade' and 'PC gone mad' jokes and accusations.

[Woody1985]

Jokes are always made out od people's differences whether people like it or not. It's human nature.

I've received jokes that are racist and sexist that have been funny. Not all of them are funny because some just happen to be not funny. It doesn't mean I'm going to go up to the next black female lesbian and slag the **** out them.

[CropleyWasGod]

After rugby player Gareth Thomas 'came out' as being gay last year and was backed by his fellow pros and supporters, already this year we have seen ex cycling champion Graeme Obree confirm he is gay and in the last couple of days England cricketer Steven Davies has also come out.

Are we witnessing a change in attitudes amongst sports supporters and society in general? When you think back to some of the abuse suffered by Justin Fahanu it certainly seems so. I wonder how long we will have to wait for a gay footballer to feel comfortable enough to be open about his sexuality and how football fans will react.

Think you have your answer :agree: S'gonna take a while...

[ancient hibee]

Have you heard the one about the black,Irish lesbian in the wheelchair?

[Woody1985]

Have you heard the one about the black,Irish lesbian in the wheelchair?

She's not a ginger is she? Horrible people those gingers.

[CropleyWasGod]

She's not a ginger is she? Horrible people those gingers.

You might hit have upon something there, Woody. Gingers, black folk, physically disabled are all already "out" in that their "difference" is clear.

With gays, though, it's not always apparent. Perhaps folk find it easier to make jokes about them as a result.

[Woody1985]

Think you have your answer :agree: S'gonna take a while...

You'll never fully get rid od discrimination whether it's sexuality or gingerism.

It becomes more socially unacceptable to air negative views on them in public but if people believe that's because it's been eradicated then they're naive to say the least.

For what it's worth, my first post illustrates exactly what witj happen. Society is changing their views in public but I'd say that's mainly because people don't want negative perceptions of themselves or breach the law in some cases.

[Killiehibbie]

After rugby player Gareth Thomas 'came out' as being gay last year and was backed by his fellow pros and supporters, already this year we have seen ex cycling champion Graeme Obree confirm he is gay and in the last couple of days England cricketer Steven Davies has also come out.

Are we witnessing a change in attitudes amongst sports supporters and society in general? When you think back to some of the abuse suffered by Justin Fahanu it certainly seems so. I wonder how long we will have to wait for a gay footballer to feel comfortable enough to be open about his sexuality and how football fans will react.
As long as he doesn't speak in that voice when being interviewed I wouldn't mind.

[Beefster]

Not one of the 'banter' merchants on this thread would say any of this stuff direct to someone like Gareth Thomas.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's an interesting thread. There are obviously many sportsmen who don't come out - basically for fear of being targeted with the usual responses. Thomas only came out when his playing career was at a close - it was more or less an open secret in South Wales for years.

There was a great play on in the Edinburgh festival last year about a gay boxer; one of the most interesting dramas about sexuality, violence, fear and control I've seen. It was a one-man show, performed brilliantly by the actor.

I think a lot of really lame, anti-gay jokes are only 'funny' in a footballing context, because the culture around football lends itself to infantilism. People could tell a joke in a pub that would compel laughter due to the insecurity and inherent weirdness of a group of males sitting around together. The same joke would be embarrassing in male/female company at a dinner party, just because it would have no bonding/excluding function, and just not be seen as very good.

[Woody1985]

Not one of the 'banter' merchants on this thread would say any of this stuff direct to someone like Gareth Thomas.

Is that cos he's hard? :tee hee:

[marinello59]

You'll never fully get rid od discrimination whether it's sexuality or gingerism.

It becomes more socially unacceptable to air negative views on them in public but if people believe that's because it's been eradicated then they're naive to say the least.

For what it's worth, my first post illustrates exactly what witj happen. Society is changing their views in public but I'd say that's mainly because people don't want negative perceptions of themselves or breach the law in some cases.

Or maybe people genuinely do think it is just plain wrong to discriminate on grounds of sexuality. Making it unacceptable to routinely make homophobic jokes would at least be a start.

[lyonhibs]

Is that cos he's hard? :tee hee:

No, more because he'd kick the living **** out of you :greengrin

[Allant1981]

I honestly dont care if these guys are gay or not, what i will ask is why they feel the need to come out and tell everyone they are, if they were straight they wouldnt be telling the country they were into women so why tell us they are gay

[ArabHibee]

No, more because he'd kick the living **** out of you :greengrin

Now who's generalising?

[CropleyWasGod]

I honestly dont care if these guys are gay or not, what i will ask is why they feel the need to come out and tell everyone they are, if they were straight they wouldnt be telling the country they were into women so why tell us they are gay

It's about being a role model for younger men and women who might lack the confidence to be open about their sexuality.

[Barney McGrew]

I honestly dont care if these guys are gay or not, what i will ask is why they feel the need to come out and tell everyone they are, if they were straight they wouldnt be telling the country they were into women so why tell us they are gay

It's not about them broadcasting the fact, it's about them feeling they have to hide it in the first place.

[Woody1985]

No, more because he'd kick the living **** out of you :greengrin

Would it turn him on? :greengrin

I seen him on football focus or another BBC sport show and he didn't seem affected at all and had lots of support.

[Removed]

Have you heard the one about the black,Irish lesbian in the wheelchair?

And the punchline is...........

[heretoday]

Homophobia is alive and well. You only have to sit on the top deck of a Lothian bus and listen to the loud banter of the schoolkids at the back. They are constantly making "gay" references and you can just imagine the bullying that goes on by text and facebook.

It's all the parents' fault of course. And Rupert Murdoch.

[Allant1981]

It's about being a role model for younger men and women who might lack the confidence to be open about their sexuality.

suppose. I will never be in their position so i dont know what its like for them. As i said, i dont care if folk are straight or gay

[legends of 73]

fao admin

just giving an example thats all:greengrin:greengrin

but the pc brigade win again:confused::confused:

[Beefster]

fao admin

just giving an example thats all:greengrin:greengrin

but the pc brigade win again:confused::confused:

Here's a wee definition that I found on the Interweb and thought was apt:

PC Brigade
(Noun) (Abbr. Political Correctness Brigade) (Chiefly British)

A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.

[legends of 73]

Here's a wee definition that I found on the Interweb and thought was apt:

PC Brigade
(Noun) (Abbr. Political Correctness Brigade) (Chiefly British)

A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.


get over it mr high and mighty.

freedom of speech my son as you've quoted you'll know i'll not hide in the closet.

away and play with "your fudge packing pals"

[HNA6]

get over it mr high and mighty.

freedom of speech my son as you've quoted you'll know i'll not hide in the closet.

away and play with "your fudge packing pals"Gonna give it a rest ..?

[legends of 73]

Gonna give it a rest ..?

ok oh mighty one:not worth:not worth:not worth

people have views and are not the same as others thats what debate is all about isn't it,but if someone slanders me then i'll slander them end of

[Beefster]

ok oh mighty one:not worth:not worth:not worth

people have views and are not the same as others thats what debate is all about isn't it,but if someone slanders me then i'll slander them end of

It's not slander if you already freely admit that you're homophobic.

[HNA6]

ok oh mighty one:not worth:not worth:not worth

people have views and are not the same as others thats what debate is all about isn't it,but if someone slanders me then i'll slander them end ofYou are not debating though, you are going off on a wee homophobic rant ..dislike them at your pleasure but I would be very careful what you put on a public forum..

There is also no need for the sarcastic smilies either..

[legends of 73]

You are not debating though, you are going off on a wee homophobic rant ..dislike them at your pleasure but I would be very careful what you put on a public forum..

There is also no need for the sarcastic smilies either..

so it's ok for them to come out the closet but when i come out and say i don't agree with it it's not acceptable.

so we have no freedom of speech on a public forum

the problem with this place is your too scared to upset the minority and the majority get shot down when the have views.

i'll be sticking to the pm board and main board from now and only commenting on hibs stuff end of

[Twa Cairpets]

so it's ok for them to come out the closet but when i come out and say i don't agree with it it's not acceptable.

so we have no freedom of speech on a public forum

the problem with this place is your too scared to upset the minority and the majority get shot down when the have views.

i'll be sticking to the pm board and main board from now and only commenting on hibs stuff end of

Ach away and and stop your slavering man.

You can debate and dislike anyone you want, as long as it is debate and not abuse.

[legends of 73]

Ach away and and stop your slavering man.

You can debate and dislike anyone you want, as long as it is debate and not abuse.

and if you seen my post before it got deleted i never abused anyone i just asked why they have to loud and always wanting to be center of attention thats all

but because i'm not there biggest fan i get slaughtered

[HNA6]

so it's ok for them to come out the closet but when i come out and say i don't agree with it it's not acceptable.

so we have no freedom of speech on a public forum

the problem with this place is your too scared to upset the minority and the majority get shot down when the have views.

i'll be sticking to the pm board and main board from now and only commenting on hibs stuff end ofFreedom of speech !!! you call homosexuals fags, poofters & fudge packers on a public forum & you feel you are the one getting a hard time !!!


Deary me ..

[lapsedhibee]

Gotta agree with the homophobe on the sole point that the deleted anecdote about a fare he picked up was no more offensive than any other post he's made on this thread, so it was a bit of a surprise to me that it was deleted.

[legends of 73]

Freedom of speech !!! you call homosexuals fags, poofters & fudge packers on a public forum & you feel you are the one getting a hard time !!!


Deary me ..


where did i say i was getting a hard time if thats what i call them then so be it.

if you asked 100 people on this site the majority would say the same but don't in fear of getting launched

[lapsedhibee]

if you asked 100 people on this site the majority would say the same but don't in fear of getting launched

Would be interesting to see the results of a secret poll. I think you'd be proved wrong, but don't know by how much.

[Beefster]

where did i say i was getting a hard time if thats what i call them then so be it.

if you asked 100 people on this site the majority would say the same but don't in fear of getting launched

You still take their money though, right?

[Beefster]

Gotta agree with the homophobe on the sole point that the deleted anecdote about a fare he picked up was no more offensive than any other post he's made on this thread, so it was a bit of a surprise to me that it was deleted.

I'm not sure if you saw the worst post but HNA6 has summarised the sort of language used in it. It was worse than anything else on this thread.

[legends of 73]

I'm not sure if you saw the worst post but HNA6 has summarised the sort of language used in it. It was worse than anything else on this thread.

i think you'll find he did as he mentioned the fare i had who was being loud and in your face and all i asked was why was there the need for it.

yes i might have used words that are unaceptable to some but not to others thats the world we live in and i'm not going to change my views on it

[lapsedhibee]

I'm not sure if you saw the worst post but HNA6 has summarised the sort of language used in it. It was worse than anything else on this thread.

I saw it. The language was indeed disrespectful.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I quite like lesbians, in fact they are my favourite actors:devil:

[Twa Cairpets]

and if you seen my post before it got deleted i never abused anyone i just asked why they have to loud and always wanting to be center of attention thats all

but because i'm not there biggest fan i get slaughtered

I didnt see the deleted post, but re-the bit in bold above: All of them? Every single gay person is camp and loud and brash? I don't personally find OTT camp behaviour particularly pleasant, but it doesnt mean I instantly assume that all gay people have that attribute, and I dont base my opinion on what is a stereotype from the seventies. Gay men tend to be, from those I have met, pretty quiet guys.

I actually tend to agree that it is appaling that people feel the need to proclaim or campaign for their sexuality as it, essentially, a pretty private thing. However until people are not victimised and discriminated against as a result of their sexuality, I can understand them wanting to "come out" to support others. Someones sexuality should be a matter or zero consequence to your opinion of them, and your judgement should based solely on whether or not they are a good guy or a plank. I suspect you base your opinion primarily on what they get up to in private.

[legends of 73]

You still take their money though, right?


wouldn't be in business for long if i picked and choose my fares all i said there was no need to be so loud and in your face.

you'll find loads of taxis drivers who don't pick up at greenside because of this there's no need

[HNA6]

where did i say i was getting a hard time if thats what i call them then so be it.

if you asked 100 people on this site the majority would say the same but don't in fear of getting launchedJeez ..were playing family fortunes now !!

You are going off on a tangent again, who mentioned anyone getting launched ..?

Because Admin delete threads or others disagree with you does not mean you cannot have freedom of speech. In fairness plenty gets by us on these forums & it is very rarely stuff is censored, im sure we would all like to keep it that way eh ?

[legends of 73]

I didnt see the deleted post, but re-the bit in bold above: All of them? Every single gay person is camp and loud and brash? I don't personally find OTT camp behaviour particularly pleasant, but it doesnt mean I instantly assume that all gay people have that attribute, and I dont base my opinion on what is a stereotype from the seventies. Gay men tend to be, from those I have met, pretty quiet guys.

I actually tend to agree that it is appaling that people feel the need to proclaim or campaign for their sexuality as it, essentially, a pretty private thing. However until people are not victimised and discriminated against as a result of their sexuality, I can understand them wanting to "come out" to support others. Someones sexuality should be a matter or zero consequence to your opinion of them, and your judgement should based solely on whether or not they are a good guy or a plank. I suspect you base your opinion primarily on what they get up to in private.

behind closed doors i don't care what there up too,but while i'm driving them in my taxi they should show a bit of respect and behave like adults not like a bunch of 10 years old girls.

if there gay then so be it but there's no need to stick it in someones face who's not.

i've had them asking me how i think they look as i've picked them up to take them into town wtf do they want me to say

[legends of 73]

Jeez ..were playing family fortunes now !!

You are going off on a tangent again, who mentioned anyone getting launched ..?

Because Admin delete threads or others disagree with you does not mean you cannot have freedom of speech. In fairness plenty gets by us on these forums & it is very rarely stuff is censored, im sure we would all like to keep it that way eh ?

and where did i say i was getting launched read the post again i said people don't post in fear of getting launched

[lapsedhibee]

i've had them asking me how i think they look as i've picked them up to take them into town wtf do they want me to say

No need to say anything - a warm embrace is often sufficient to reassure insecure folk.

[HNA6]

and where did i say i was getting launched read the post again i said people don't post in fear of getting launchedSorry but you are waffling now ..

Im away tae ma bed ..

[legends of 73]

No need to say anything - a warm embrace is often sufficient to reassure insecure folk.


:faf::faf:and i can see that happening not

[legends of 73]

Sorry but you are waffling now ..

Im away tae ma bed ..

good i'll get peace and carry on with my homophobic rant:greengrin(joke)

[Speedy]

wouldn't be in business for long if i picked and choose my fares all i said there was no need to be so loud and in your face.

you'll find loads of taxis drivers who don't pick up at greenside because of this there's no need

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db7LGAeNFNQ&feature=related

:greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

behind closed doors i don't care what there up too,but while i'm driving them in my taxi they should show a bit of respect and behave like adults not like a bunch of 10 years old girls.

if there gay then so be it but there's no need to stick it in someones face who's not.

i've had them asking me how i think they look as i've picked them up to take them into town wtf do they want me to say

I'm guessing theyre not trying to pick you up, you know. You could say "Looking good big man" or "aye you look fine" and it doesnt make you less of a man.

If a lassie gets in dressed like a tart and talking about how many men she's going to **** that night does that offend you? How about a bunch of rugby fans getting in and engaging in "friendly banter" about how many girls theyve felt up that night? Is that ok because it is heterosexual or does it offend the Temple of Morality that is your taxi?

And so what if they "behave like ten year old girls". Does this just mean they're having a laugh? Have they damaged your property? Have they indulged in anything illegal on the back seat? Have they spewed up or brought a fish supper into the taxi?

Or are they just a bunch of guys who you dont like because they're gay, and dont know how to handle it?

[Killiehibbie]

I'm guessing theyre not trying to pick you up, you know. You could say "Looking good big man" or "aye you look fine" and it doesnt make you less of a man.

If a lassie gets in dressed like a tart and talking about how many men she's going to **** that night does that offend you? How about a bunch of rugby fans getting in and engaging in "friendly banter" about how many girls theyve felt up that night? Is that ok because it is heterosexual or does it offend the Temple of Morality that is your taxi?

And so what if they "behave like ten year old girls". Does this just mean they're having a laugh? Have they damaged your property? Have they indulged in anything illegal on the back seat? Have they spewed up or brought a fish supper into the taxi?

Or are they just a bunch of guys who you dont like because they're gay, and dont know how to handle it?You get them trying their hardest to be as outrageous as possible when in a group, asking the taxi driver if he wants sex instead of payment is one of the favourites. I usually tell them my children can't live on my sexual exploits so if it's all the same i'd rather have a tenner. That goes for busty blonde females as well as men. Most of them are only trying to show off but the ones to worry about are lone passengers of both sexes but particularly women.

[haagsehibby]

Back on topic. There was a good article about Stonewall F.C. (a club with predominantly homosexual players) in the papers recently. One of the founders said that although there was a degree of "banter" at the start once the other teams saw that they were just there to play football and have a good time there was pretty much universal acceptance and they have almost no problems.

[ancient hibee]

I have no interest in someone's sexual orientation-to me it's totally immaterial but I also wonder why homosexuals,in particular,seem keen that I should know when I couldn't care less.

Most jokes are about the human race.If you're a member of the human race-prepare to be joked about.

[Beefster]

I have no interest in someone's sexual orientation-to me it's totally immaterial but I also wonder why homosexuals,in particular,seem keen that I should know when I couldn't care less.

Most jokes are about the human race.If you're a member of the human race-prepare to be joked about.

Which individuals have made a point of telling you that they were homosexual?

I'd imagine that some people 'come out' publicly so that they can live their lives how they want without people whispering and gossiping behind their backs.

[Woody1985]

I have no interest in someone's sexual orientation-to me it's totally immaterial but I also wonder why homosexuals,in particular,seem keen that I should know when I couldn't care less.

Most jokes are about the human race.If you're a member of the human race-prepare to be joked about.

:agree:

[Removed]

:agree:

Just remember that then the next time you're bragging about who you pumped :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

I have no interest in someone's sexual orientation-to me it's totally immaterial but I also wonder why homosexuals,in particular,seem keen that I should know when I couldn't care less.

Most jokes are about the human race.If you're a member of the human race-prepare to be joked about.

Is this really the case?

I think when it comes to sportsmen and women, actors and so on the decision to come out is motivated more by the desire to live their life openly and not have to be fearful of being 'exposed' by the tabloids. There is still a certain level of immaturity within the tabloid press when it comes to homosexuality or transexuals etc. I cringe when i see The Sun refer to transexuals as 'gender benders'. Back to Gareth Thomas, after he came out The Sun printed a picture the next week and made a massive deal of it, the picture was of him -wait for it........wearing a pink rugby top. This was apparently newsworthy, a big deal and mildly amusing. Perhaps amongst those who have a public profile the fear of being outed and the subsequent ridicule is so great that coming out on their own terms is preferable.

In everyday life i know several gay people and none of them make a massive deal out of the fact. I have one friend, a man in his 30s, who had no desire to come out. Unfortunately it appears that a single man in his 30s is fair game for all manner of stupid comments and questions -'What a waste, you need a woman', 'you're not a poof are you?' were a couple of my favourites. In the end he had to come out to stop himself being bombarded with this rubbish everytime he was out in company.

[Speedy]

Which individuals have made a point of telling you that they were homosexual?

I'd imagine that some people 'come out' publicly so that they can live their lives how they want without people whispering and gossiping behind their backs.

I know one guy in particular that is very vocal about being gay. It is annoying, he's my mates girlfriend's friend and I honestly can't stand being out with him. He constantly makes reference to guy's he been with and always flirts with/ and touches up guys in our company(when he knows perfectly well that they aren't gay), it's like he enjoys trying to see if he can make anyone uncomfortable.

He's gay, we get it, nobody cares and I just wish he'd stop acting like an idiot. If it was a guy behaving like that to a woman there is no way it would be accepted.

I have to point out though, I realise this is not typical of gay men and it is just this one guy in particular being a bit of an idiot. The vast majority of gay men I know just get on with their lives and don't seem to feel the need to shout about their sexuality.

[Removed]

I know one guy in particular that is very vocal about being gay. It is annoying, he's my mates girlfriend's friend and I honestly can't stand being out with him. He constantly makes reference to guy's he been with and always flirts with/ and touches up guys in our company(when he knows perfectly well that they aren't gay), it's like he enjoys trying to see if he can make anyone uncomfortable.

He's gay, we get it, nobody cares and I just wish he'd stop acting like an idiot. If it was a guy behaving like that to a woman there is no way it would be accepted.

I have to point out though, I realise this is not typical of gay men and it is just this one guy in particular being a bit of an idiot. The vast majority of gay men I know just get on with their lives and don't seem to feel the need to shout about their sexuality.

In know plenty straight guys who shout about their sexuality as well, or in the pub make sexual and degrading comments about women, so gay guys don't have exclusivity (sp) on that type of behaviour.

[Woody1985]

Just remember that then the next time you're bragging about who you pumped :greengrin

:greengrin

[Speedy]

I know one guy in particular that is very vocal about being gay. It is annoying, he's my mates girlfriend's friend and I honestly can't stand being out with him. He constantly makes reference to guy's he been with and always flirts with/ and touches up guys in our company(when he knows perfectly well that they aren't gay), it's like he enjoys trying to see if he can make anyone uncomfortable.

He's gay, we get it, nobody cares and I just wish he'd stop acting like an idiot. If it was a guy behaving like that to a woman there is no way it would be accepted.

I have to point out though, I realise this is not typical of gay men and it is just this one guy in particular being a bit of an idiot. The vast majority of gay men I know just get on with their lives and don't seem to feel the need to shout about their sexuality.


In know plenty straight guys who shout about their sexuality as well, or in the pub make sexual and degrading comments about women, so gay guys don't have exclusivity (sp) on that type of behaviour.

True, hence the bit in bold.

[Greentinted]

Sexual harrasement of any orientation is reprehensible and with current attitudes still prevailing, when it's a gay man doing the harrasing, there's the added ingredient of shocking for shockings sake. While I vehemently abhor homophobia (and other forms of intolerance/bigotry) I certainly won't defend anyone who is sexually agressive.

I wonder also (and I'm genuinly interested, not being gratuitously provocative) if there is a shift in attitude between a homosexual couple winching in the back of a taxi and a heterosexual winch situation in a the same place?

[Woody1985]

Sexual harrasement of any orientation is reprehensible and with current attitudes still prevailing, when it's a gay man doing the harrasing, there's the added ingredient of shocking for shockings sake. While I vehemently abhor homophobia (and other forms of intolerance/bigotry) I certainly won't defend anyone who is sexually agressive.

I wonder also (and I'm genuinly interested, not being gratuitously provocative) if there is a shift in attitude between a homosexual couple winching in the back of a taxi and a heterosexual winch situation in a the same place?

There may be but people will still find it unacceptable. Basic human anatomy means that a large proportion of people will still disagree with homosexuals and in a public scenarios like you mention there will be those who speak out against it but I think the majority of people don't really care that much.

Moving off on a tangent slightly, it is possible to think that homosexuals are wrong without being homophobic.

[bighairyfaeleith]

There may be but people will still find it unacceptable. Basic human anatomy means that a large proportion of people will still disagree with homosexuals and in a public scenarios like you mention there will be those who speak out against it but I think the majority of people don't really care that much.

Moving off on a tangent slightly, it is possible to think that homosexuals are wrong without being homophobic.

I think homosexual men are wrong when it comes to sex, I mean seriously that must be sore, a doctor once shoved a finger up my arse and it was bloody agony, I did have piles at the time mind:wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Deary me. No wonder no footballer's came out and admitted he's gay yet - some of the stuff posted on here's incredible. There's a lot of folk stuck in the dark ages.

[Killiehibbie]

Sexual harrasement of any orientation is reprehensible and with current attitudes still prevailing, when it's a gay man doing the harrasing, there's the added ingredient of shocking for shockings sake. While I vehemently abhor homophobia (and other forms of intolerance/bigotry) I certainly won't defend anyone who is sexually agressive.

I wonder also (and I'm genuinly interested, not being gratuitously provocative) if there is a shift in attitude between a homosexual couple winching in the back of a taxi and a heterosexual winch situation in a the same place?
If it's full on tongues and all that they get told the same as any other couple. Just wait until you get home.

[matty_f]

Deary me. No wonder no footballer's came out and admitted he's gay yet - some of the stuff posted on here's incredible. There's a lot of folk stuck in the dark ages.

:top marks

[Greentinted]

If it's full on tongues and all that they get told the same as any other couple. Just wait until you get home.

Cannae say fairer than that.

[J-C]

I think it's harder for Gay sportmen/women to come out due the predudices but not in all cases, in ice skating we had John Curry and Robin Cousins who were openly gay and in tennis we had BJ King, Navratilova and more recently Mauresmo.

Whether this is all down to the type of sport e.g. rugby, football, cricket, boxing etc all considered manly sports, hence gay men in particular find it harder to come out because they'd be seen differently due to the type of sport they're involved in.

Personally I couldn't care less what the sexual preference is, if they're good at the sport they do, then who cares.

[Speedy]

I think it's harder for Gay sportmen/women to come out due the predudices but not in all cases, in ice skating we had John Curry and Robin Cousins who were openly gay and in tennis we had BJ King, Navratilova and more recently Mauresmo.

Whether this is all down to the type of sport e.g. rugby, football, cricket, boxing etc all considered manly sports, hence gay men in particular find it harder to come out because they'd be seen differently due to the type of sport they're involved in.

Personally I couldn't care less what the sexual preference is, if they're good at the sport they do, then who cares.

It's probably down to how popular and "mainstream" the sport is as well. I haven't even heard of the ice skaters and I didn't know any of the other people you mentioned were homosexual, although I did have my suspisions that Mauresmo is actually Dado Prso.

I have to be honest though

[J-C]

It's probably down to how popular and "mainstream" the sport is as well. I haven't even heard of the ice skaters and I didn't know any of the other people you mentioned were homosexual, although I did have my suspisions that Mauresmo is actually Dado Prso.

I have to be honest though


The 2 skaters were late 70's early 80's, Billy Jean King was a female tennis champ 60's/70's and Navratilova won everything in tennis in the 80's and 90's, still holds the record for singles wins at Winbledon I think.

[Marabou Stork]

I think it could also possibly be said that there is a very big difference between a female sports player coming out and a male sports player coming out. There appears to have been a reasonably large number of sporting lesbians over the years whereas there are very few openly gay sportsmen.

[J-C]

I think it could also possibly be said that there is a very big difference between a female sports player coming out and a male sports player coming out. There appears to have been a reasonably large number of sporting lesbians over the years whereas there are very few openly gay sportsmen.


Very true, it could also be the fact that most of the sports associated to men are pretty manly type sports e.g. rugby, football etc where homosexuality is joked about and hence these sportmen feel uncomfortable coming out.

[One Day Soon]

Oh ma sides...

And this is the predicatble ill-informed 'banter' that means gay footballers may be reticent to 'come out'.
I have gay pals of both genders, some of whom are still recalcitrant to admit their sexuality in public. Is it any wonder why?


I want to be Greentintedophobic against you for using the term 'recalcitrant' in this post and 'disproportionatise' in your first post.

What's wrong with people like you that you have to get in to my cab - I mean thread - and try and come over all florally eloquent? Why can't you save that sort of weird minority language for home? I'm not against your type - the way people want to use prose and diction is up to them - but why do I have to put up with that kind of communication? Surely you can play perverted games with language and grammar behind the curtains of your own home rather than involving us all in your enforced lexicographical gang-bang?

[Greentinted]

I want to be Greentintedophobic against you for using the term 'recalcitrant' in this post and 'disproportionatise' in your first post.

What's wrong with people like you that you have to get in to my cab - I mean thread - and try and come over all florally eloquent? Why can't you save that sort of weird minority language for home? I'm not against your type - the way people want to use prose and diction is up to them - but why do I have to put up with that kind of communication? Surely you can play perverted games with language and grammar behind the curtains of your own home rather than involving us all in your enforced lexicographical gang-bang?

"The limits of your language are the limits of your world"

I'm sure you will be in accordance! :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

"The limits of your language are the limits of your world"

I'm sure you will be in accordance! :greengrin

You've changed your avatar you bunt. Have you gone off Zoolander?

[Future17]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/19847940

Good on him!

[--------]

Here's a wee definition that I found on the Interweb and thought was apt:

PC Brigade
(Noun) (Abbr. Political Correctness Brigade) (Chiefly British)

A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.

Thank you Beefster - I'll file that away for a future occasion. I always know I'm winning a moral argument when the person I'm arguing with accuses me of being one of the PC Brigade. It means they KNOW they're wrong but they're too cowardly to admit it.


Interesting that some were thinking that the problem is that football's a 'manly' game and that somehow homophobic abuse occurs naturally in its context.

Pity it's not as 'unmanly' as Rugby League, then. A right bunch of softies, that lot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/celtic_crusaders/8655998.stm

Now if the Rugby League can step in promptly and deal with Castleford fans abusing Gareth Thomas by fining Castleford for their fans' misbehaviour, and if Bradford can instruct their stewards at THEIR game the following week to deal with the same rubbish by ejecting those responsible, why can't the football authorities do the same?

In 1875 lots of people thought it was OK to prevent a man from playing professional football if he was of Catholic Irish origin. Just as well some folks in the Cowgate saw things differently - otherwise WE wouldn't have a football team to support.

A team whose supporters are able to quote Wittgenstein in the knowledge that he'll be recognised and understood. :not worth

(Shame that some present-day Hibees can't extend a wee bit toleration and understanding towards others who're seen as 'different'.)

[Johnny0762]

Are there actually a negative attitude towards gay sportsmen?

I mean ffs, I'm all for equal rights and don't give a damn which sex people want to frolic with, but it reminds me a bit of the feminist movement. These women don't want equal rights, it's role reversal they campaign for.

What I do have an issue with is guys like Graham Norton and Alan Carr who have made careers out of advertising their sexuality and being 'different'. But they insist on their right to be treated the same as everyone else. Well for crying out loud try acting like everyone else then.

This is where any negative attitudes may originate. Gay people (also) don't campaign for equal rights, they are campaigning to change the very fabric of society.

And as for those of same sex partnerships who insist on the rights to have children... What the ****? They insist on THEIR rights but don't give a toss about the child, or what they child may experience growing up.

Let's face it, same sex couples having children is not 'the norm'.

[Scouse Hibee]

Are there actually a negative attitude towards gay sportsmen?

I mean ffs, I'm all for equal rights and don't give a damn which sex people want to frolic with, but it reminds me a bit of the feminist movement. These women don't want equal rights, it's role reversal they campaign for.

What I do have an issue with is guys like Graham Norton and Alan Carr who have made careers out of advertising their sexuality and being 'different'. But they insist on their right to be treated the same as everyone else. Well for crying out loud try acting like everyone else then.

This is where any negative attitudes may originate. Gay people (also) don't campaign for equal rights, they are campaigning to change the very fabric of society.

And as for those of same sex partnerships who insist on the rights to have children... What the ****? They insist on THEIR rights but don't give a toss about the child, or what they child may experience growing up.

Let's face it, same sex couples having children is not 'the norm'.


Are you saying they have only made a success because of their sexuality?

On the subject of same sex folk having children, I actually know a couple of couples who have done just this, they have both seriously weighed up all of the issues and made decisions knowing that they could both bring a child into the world giving that child love and everything it would need. Far better I think than many of the children dragged up by single parents or hetro couples whose only thought was a leg over without even considering if they could deal with the consequences.

[Johnny0762]

Are you saying they have only made a success because of their sexuality?

On the subject of same sex folk having children, I actually know a couple of couples who have done just this, they have both seriously weighed up all of the issues and made decisions knowing that they could both bring a child into the world giving that child love and everything it would need. Far better I think than many of the children dragged up by single parents or hetro couples whose only thought was a leg over without even considering if they could deal with the consequences.


No, for I don't know the career history of either. What I'm saying is that they flaunt their sexuality in a way that heterosexuals would not get away with and have forged current success by acting like camp fools. You would have to agree that this creates stereotypes which are unhealthy for ordinary homosexuals? They constantly make jokes and references to their sexuality. I happen to find both men funny, but I instantly switch off from them when they drag what they do down to the gutter with their sexuality. Maybe other people are interested, but I'm not. It's not that I don't like the ideal of homosexuality but I just don't think they do others any good by creating the camp personae (and most of it is acting of course for it is show business eh) stereotypes. I just don't think they need to rely on the same old joke.

The fact that some couples or individuals have poor parental instincts is not a valid excuse for saying that same sex couples will provide a child with "everything they need". I'm pretty sure that being gay or lesbian doesn't automatically equip you with good parenting skills. Once again, this only focuses on what those prospective parents feel, for themselves. It's selfish.

Are you also saying that only heterosexuals have sex with reckless abandonment?

I'd also go as far as saying that couples (same sex or otherwise) who adopt children (or don't experience everything about the child from birth, or aren't biologically related to the children, as both parents of same sex cannot be) will never have the same emotional ties to the children involved. And I speak from direct experience.

[Beefster]

Are there actually a negative attitude towards gay sportsmen?

I mean ffs, I'm all for equal rights and don't give a damn which sex people want to frolic with, but it reminds me a bit of the feminist movement. These women don't want equal rights, it's role reversal they campaign for.

What I do have an issue with is guys like Graham Norton and Alan Carr who have made careers out of advertising their sexuality and being 'different'. But they insist on their right to be treated the same as everyone else. Well for crying out loud try acting like everyone else then.

This is where any negative attitudes may originate. Gay people (also) don't campaign for equal rights, they are campaigning to change the very fabric of society.

And as for those of same sex partnerships who insist on the rights to have children... What the ****? They insist on THEIR rights but don't give a toss about the child, or what they child may experience growing up.

Let's face it, same sex couples having children is not 'the norm'.

The feminist campaign campaigned for role reversal? Really?

Why do you have an issue with camp people? Incidentally, the two campest men I've ever known were straight. They made Norton and Carr look like Chuck Norris.

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation about gay folk and their attitudes towards parenting too.

[Scouse Hibee]

No, for I don't know the career history of either. What I'm saying is that they flaunt their sexuality in a way that heterosexuals would not get away with and have forged current success by acting like camp fools. You would have to agree that this creates stereotypes which are unhealthy for ordinary homosexuals? They constantly make jokes and references to their sexuality. I happen to find both men funny, but I instantly switch off from them when they drag what they do down to the gutter with their sexuality. Maybe other people are interested, but I'm not. It's not that I don't like the ideal of homosexuality but I just don't think they do others any good by creating the camp personae (and most of it is acting of course for it is show business eh) stereotypes. I just don't think they need to rely on the same old joke.

The fact that some couples or individuals have poor parental instincts is not a valid excuse for saying that same sex couples will provide a child with "everything they need". I'm pretty sure that being gay or lesbian doesn't automatically equip you with good parenting skills. Once again, this only focuses on what those prospective parents feel, for themselves. It's selfish.

I'd also go as far as saying that couples (same sex or otherwise) who adopt children (or don't experience everything about the child from birth, or aren't biologically related to the children, as both parents of same sex cannot be) will never have the same emotional ties to the children involved. And I speak from direct experience.

Both of the same sex parent couples I know have carried the child themselves so what's the problem, they have the same emotional ties as anyone else and more importantly as I stated earlier they made an informed decision to have a child knowing what they could both provide. Do you know of any same sex couples who have had children? Did the children suffer as a result or are they suffering?

With regard to speaking from direct experience, so am I and frankly you are talking utter nonsense about adoptive parents.

[Johnny0762]

Both of the same sex parent couples I know have carried the child themselves so what's the problem, they have the same emotional ties as anyone else and more importantly as I stated earlier they made an informed decision to have a child knowing what they could both provide. Do you know of any same sex couples who have had children? Did the children suffer as a result or are they suffering?

With regard to speaking from direct experience, so am I and frankly you are talking utter nonsense about adoptive parents.

The thing with same sex couples giving birth is that one has no genetic ties to the child therefore not the same emotional ties. This is a fact. Not an opinion. Couples involved get psychological counselling for the very same.

[Future17]

Are there actually a negative attitude towards gay sportsmen?

I mean ffs, I'm all for equal rights and don't give a damn which sex people want to frolic with, but it reminds me a bit of the feminist movement. These women don't want equal rights, it's role reversal they campaign for.

What I do have an issue with is guys like Graham Norton and Alan Carr who have made careers out of advertising their sexuality and being 'different'. But they insist on their right to be treated the same as everyone else. Well for crying out loud try acting like everyone else then.

This is where any negative attitudes may originate. Gay people (also) don't campaign for equal rights, they are campaigning to change the very fabric of society.

And as for those of same sex partnerships who insist on the rights to have children... What the ****? They insist on THEIR rights but don't give a toss about the child, or what they child may experience growing up.

Let's face it, same sex couples having children is not 'the norm'.

Of course there are negative attitudes towards gay sportsmen. Evidence:

- The tiny number of openly gay sportsmen currently involved in professional sport, which is disproportionate to the number of gay people generally.

- The tone and content of conversations held in and around sporting arenas when derogatory reference is made to homesexuality, including chanting at football matches.

I think you have missed the key point of equality. It's not about treating everyone "the same". It's about recognising and respecting differences and similarities and not being discriminatory or intolerant. Graham Norton or Alan Carr are as entitled to make a living out of their sexuality (not that I think they do this) as any other celebrity.

You claim to have had direct experience of adoptive parents not having the same emotional ties to parents as biological parents, but surely this is the same for same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples?

Also, you haven't indicated what you consider the impact of this lesser emotional tie is on the child? Is it more severe than the effect which not being adopted at all would have on the large number of children who suffer that fate? Additionally, is it more severe that the effect of being raised by unfit (for whatever reason) parents who do have the full "emotional tie"?

I think your view on this is overly simplistic to the point that I think you might be trolling, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by replying. However, if you do have direct experience of adoption, it appears to be rather one-dimensional, which is sad for all concerned.

[Future17]

The link below provides a bit more info on Orlando Cruz, but also contains a link to a Sports Illustrated article on a fight 50 years ago between Benny Paret and Emile Griffith.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/19925421

Tragically Griffith, often suspected and later confirmed as bisexual, beat Paret to death in the ring. The SI article references the effect of Paret's apparent homophobia. Loved the quote from Griffiths years after the fight:

"I kill a man and most people understand and forgive me. I love a man and so many people find this an unforgivable sin."