Leith-Junkies

[CB_NO3]

How bad is Leiths junkie problem getting?:grr: I see at least 10-15 a day. I walk from my house down the Shore to the 21 bus stop at the Tam O' Shanter. On the way home I get off at the Tesco Express on Junction Street then their is even more of them there begging for cash. The other day there I heard one screaming at the top of his voice to his mate "A hink we have the chance of getting some vallys". On the same day I seen one of them raiding the wheely bin outside the charity shop on Junction Street. Horrible, horrible people. Every time one asks me for money I just feel like hitting him. I would not fancy being a woman walking about Leith at night.

The quicker I get my vespa back on the road the better. :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

How bad is Leiths junkie problem getting?:grr: I see at least 10-15 a day. I walk from my house down the Shore to the 21 bus stop at the Tam O' Shanter. On the way home I get off at the Tesco Express on Junction Street then their is even more of them there begging for cash. The other day there I heard one screaming at the top of his voice to his mate "A hink we have the chance of getting some vallys". On the same day I seen one of them raiding the wheely bin outside the charity shop on Junction Street. Horrible, horrible people. Every time one asks me for money I just feel like hitting him. I would not fancy being a woman walking about Leith at night.

The quicker I get my vespa back on the road the better. :agree:

Take that bit out and you might not be accused of being judgemental. :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Its not just Leith, the bus stop at the top of Waverley Steps seems to be a focal point for rodents too, Gorgie (apart from the obvious reason) is going downhill at an alarming rate as well!

[EH6 Hibby]

I also live at the Shore and just today I witnessed a guy dealing to 2 different people as he walked in front of me up to the Kirkgate, thankfully my 6 year old son is too young to understand or notice, but there were other kids around as well.

[erin-go-bragh87]

I also live at the Shore and just today I witnessed a guy dealing to 2 different people as he walked in front of me up to the Kirkgate, thankfully my 6 year old son is too young to understand or notice, but there were other kids around as well.

They dont even try and hide it now. The back of the Kirkgate is crawling with them morning till night.

[EH6 Hibby]

They dont even try and hide it now. The back of the Kirkgate is crawling with them morning till night.

:agree:

Another time I was in the Foot of the Walk having lunch with a couple of friends, and there was a table full of people sitting near us clearly dealing, random people kept coming in and one of the dealers would disappear into the toilets with the person then the person would be on there way. This happened at least 10 times in the hour or so that we were there. They were sitting in the family section with kids present as well! :bitchy:

[speedy_gonzales]

I understand it's not nice to see, nor is it acceptable to witness these folk carry out their dealings in open but I was a wee bit shocked when I had popped into the Aldis/Lidls(?) just before Christmas at the Kirkgate.
A couple, of what can only be described as stereotypical smack heids, in front of me started to have a bit of a set-to, nothing wrong with that except the guy lifted his jumper up from his tracky bottoms to reveal a knife that would have put Mick Dundee to shame!
'She' then started going daft, asking what he thought he was doing but it was 'OK', it was for his protection, he was 'paranoid' someone else was 'oot to get him'!
Couple that with them coming up to you asking for change in their expecting and aggresive way then it will not be long before someone is seriously hurt(not that it's not happening already!).
To be fair I did have a quick look around for the mandatory ethnic minority security guard these stores seem to employ but there was none to be seen, nor any cops outside that I could inform(not a grass, but that kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated).

[Woody1985]

Or the cow that gets the bus around southside who buzzes gas on the bus and talks about injection crack. I told her to stop doing that **** on the bus, it was packed and people were scared of her. If I didny want to get lifted I'd crack her in the jaw.

It must have been meth day cos there were lots of them going up to get their dose.

Disgusting people.

They're everywhere. Don't know if I posted this but I was outside doctors a month or two back, four junkies walk past and started giving it what the f are you looking at. Told them they better gtf, there were kids and adults outside the pub and then one of them said 'you're that guy wi the staffies eh, you get your stuff fi the same guy I do'. I was raging to say the least and everyone is looking at me!

Me and my mate decide to leave and 'coincidentally' walk the same direction towards bristo square. Tryin to get their tools out.:faf: the soon **** it when we weren't bothered about them.

Personally I feel for the people who are intimidated to go about their everyday lives because of them.

[.Sean.]

A bullet through the head is too kind for the type Woody describes.

Junkies like that are the scourge of society. They won't ever change, have no intention of doing so invoke no pity from myself.

[PeeJay]

Or the cow that gets the bus around southside who buzzes gas on the bus and talks about injection crack.



... I'm probably the only one who doesn't know, but what does "buzzes gas" mean?:confused:

[Wembley67]

... I'm probably the only one who doesn't know, but what does "buzzes gas" mean?:confused:

Inhale the gas, usually from an aerosol to get high...particularly popular in the 80's iirc. Not heard that term for years, used to be way to common all over the place when I was growing up. Can kill you instantly.

[steakbake]

Junkies can reform. Has no-one ever heard of Jacqueline McCafferty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_X6TpC2rWQ

[Jack]

Junkies can reform. Has no-one ever heard of Jacqueline McCafferty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_X6TpC2rWQ

Your right [cant see the youtube but am assuming its someone who kicked the habit] but 10s of thousands more chose to opt out of caring for the society they live in while at the same time taking any benefit they can legally or illegally for it.

If anyone chooses to live outwith the norms of society then I see no reason why that society should care for them.

[Greentinted]

... I'm probably the only one who doesn't know, but what does "buzzes gas" mean?:confused:

THIS (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2819148/Kids-see-mum-sniff-12-gas-cans-a-day.html) woman pretty much exemplifies 'buzzin gas'

[Betty Boop]

A bullet through the head is too kind for the type Woody describes.

Junkies like that are the scourge of society. They won't ever change, have no intention of doing so invoke no pity from myself.

I take it you have the same opinion of alcoholics, another group of human beings with addiction problems ?

[degenerated]

Inhale the gas, usually from an aerosol to get high...particularly popular in the 80's iirc. Not heard that term for years, used to be way to common all over the place when I was growing up. Can kill you instantly.

instant @rsehole - just add aerosol, so to speak :greengrin

[khib70]

I take it you have the same opinion of alcoholics, another group of human beings with addiction problems ?
I'm not agreeing with the "shoot them all" brigade for a minute. However, there are many human beings with addiction problems. The fact is some choose to fight them or at least manage them, in a way that doesn't inflict them on society as a whole. Others (and these are the people complained about on this thread) simply choose to indulge them, and use the non-addicted to finance their source of supply.

There is always a choice.

[Future17]

Horrible, horrible people. Every time one asks me for money I just feel like hitting him.


If I didny want to get lifted I'd crack her in the jaw.

Disgusting people.



A bullet through the head is too kind for the type Woody describes.


Where is the "overcome with irony" smiley?

[matty_f]

To be fair, junkies don't start out as horrible people, they are generally people who find drugs as a way (initially) to make their lives a little bit better. Most people don't get into drugs to be troublemakers or criminals, and not everyone is educated enough to be in a position to truly understand how dire the consequences of an addiction can be.

[CropleyWasGod]

A bullet through the head is too kind for the type Woody describes.

Junkies like that are the scourge of society. They won't ever change, have no intention of doing so invoke no pity from myself.

One day, you may be unfortunate to be close to someone who is an addict. It's not pleasant, and I don't wish it on you, but if you are I hope you review your judgemental stance.

[IFONLY]

One day, you may be unfortunate to be close to someone who is an addict. It's not pleasant, and I don't wish it on you, but if you are I hope you review your judgemental stance.

Very good post. Its very easy to criticise people with addiction problems, it seems that the majority of the population think that people want to be addicted. People dont wake up one morning and decide to become addicted, there are many reasons why and how it happens.

[deeks01]

To be fair, junkies don't start out as horrible people, they are generally people who find drugs as a way (initially) to make their lives a little bit better. Most people don't get into drugs to be troublemakers or criminals, and not everyone is educated enough to be in a position to truly understand how dire the consequences of an addiction can be.

to be frank anyone of the younger generation who is stupid enough to become an addict thinking they can "handle it" deserve what they get. We all know the consequences these days although sadly some just think they're above normality.

Having said that I do have sympathy for those who want to change and feel they should get all the support necesary.

Also its not just a leith problem , down here in deepest darkest ayrshire every town has a junkie "problem" , they're literally like a plague of rats in some areas.

[Aaron]

On the same day I seen one of them raiding the wheely bin outside the charity shop on Junction Street.

I seen this walking home yesterday too.....four of them at it? I could believe it.

[BS44]

Or the cow that gets the bus around southside who buzzes gas on the bus and talks about injection crack. I told her to stop doing that **** on the bus, it was packed and people were scared of her. If I didny want to get lifted I'd crack her in the jaw.

It must have been meth day cos there were lots of them going up to get their dose.

Disgusting people.

They're everywhere. Don't know if I posted this but I was outside doctors a month or two back, four junkies walk past and started giving it what the f are you looking at. Told them they better gtf, there were kids and adults outside the pub and then one of them said 'you're that guy wi the staffies eh, you get your stuff fi the same guy I do'. I was raging to say the least and everyone is looking at me!

Me and my mate decide to leave and 'coincidentally' walk the same direction towards bristo square. Tryin to get their tools out.:faf: the soon **** it when we weren't bothered about them.

Personally I feel for the people who are intimidated to go about their everyday lives because of them.

You would hit a woman?

[hibsbollah]

One day, you may be unfortunate to be close to someone who is an addict. It's not pleasant, and I don't wish it on you, but if you are I hope you review your judgemental stance.

Well said.

[ChooseLife]

You would hit a woman?
I'd backhand her a real good one, on an ice cold winters night.

[greenlad]

One day, you may be unfortunate to be close to someone who is an addict. It's not pleasant, and I don't wish it on you, but if you are I hope you review your judgemental stance.

I'm not judgmental as such but the rights of law-abiding citizens should come above the rights of anyone who chosen a life of drugs, crime and intimidation every time.

At the moment these people enjoy a level of rights and immunity that they don't deserve. This country has not been tough enough in the past and now it is reaping the benefits.

I don't get all the stuff about people "don't chose" to be addicts and criminals, of course they do, even if its not a concious decision they are aware of as such. Everyone has the ability to choose their response to any given situation - its called responsibility. You can't choose where you start in life but where you end up is a product of all the decisions you make throughout your life.

FACT - Britain would be a better, safer, more economically viable place without these people as they are a drain on the NHS, a drain on Policing, and drag on social morale.

The only question is how do you dispose of these people? Again I am all for supporting those who realise the error of their ways and reform but for those that reoffend repeatedly need to be got rid of, somehow.

[Pete]

I'm not judgmental as such but the rights of law-abiding citizens should come above the rights of anyone who chosen a life of drugs, crime and intimidation every time.

At the moment these people enjoy a level of rights and immunity that they don't deserve. This country has not been tough enough in the past and now it is reaping the benefits.

I don't get all the stuff about people "don't chose" to be addicts and criminals, of course they do, even if its not a concious decision they are aware of as such. Everyone has the ability to choose their response to any given situation - its called responsibility. You can't choose where you start in life but where you end up is a product of all the decisions you make throughout your life.

FACT - Britain would be a better, safer, more economically viable place without these people as they are a drain on the NHS, a drain on Policing, and drag on social morale.

The only question is how do you dispose of these people? Again I am all for supporting those who realise the error of their ways and reform but for those that reoffend repeatedly need to be got rid of, somehow.

Concentration camps?

[Woody1985]

You would hit a woman?

I've hit one woman in my life. Not ashamed to admit it, she attacked my mum and ended up on her arse via a set of steps.

Deserved it 100%. In short, if the circumstances are right, then yes.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Concentration camps?

no that would cost us taxpayers money, I'd just line them up and shoot them:wink:

[Saorsa]

no that would cost us taxpayers money, I'd just line them up and shoot them:wink:bullets cost money :agree:

[IFONLY]

I'm not judgmental as such but the rights of law-abiding citizens should come above the rights of anyone who chosen a life of drugs, crime and intimidation every time.

At the moment these people enjoy a level of rights and immunity that they don't deserve. This country has not been tough enough in the past and now it is reaping the benefits.

I don't get all the stuff about people "don't chose" to be addicts and criminals, of course they do, even if its not a concious decision they are aware of as such. Everyone has the ability to choose their response to any given situation - its called responsibility. You can't choose where you start in life but where you end up is a product of all the decisions you make throughout your life.

FACT - Britain would be a better, safer, more economically viable place without these people as they are a drain on the NHS, a drain on Policing, and drag on social morale.

The only question is how do you dispose of these people? Again I am all for supporting those who realise the error of their ways and reform but for those that reoffend repeatedly need to be got rid of, somehow.

Disagree completely not everyone has the ability to choose their response to situations, we are not all blessed with this ability. It is a known fact that many people addicted to substances suffer from mental health problems.

[stoneyburn hibs]

any junkie is **** in my eyes, if any of them came within ten feet of myself or my family in a threatening manner without question i would kick seven shades oot them, reason being is when i was 14 got booted up and doon the place and left unconscious when i lived in west granton from a junkie of about 30 years of age, just for making eye contact.

As with most if not all junkies it is self inflicted,i seen it all growing up on the ramps of west granton, and will never have any sympathy for them.

[J-C]

[QUOTE=CB_NO3;2743467]How bad is Leiths junkie problem getting?:grr: I see at least 10-15 a day. I walk from my house down the Shore to the 21 bus stop at the Tam O' Shanter. On the way home I get off at the Tesco Express on Junction Street then their is even more of them there begging for cash. The other day there I heard one screaming at the top of his voice to his mate "A hink we have the chance of getting some vallys". On the same day I seen one of them raiding the wheely bin outside the charity shop on Junction Street. Horrible, horrible people. Every time one asks me for money I just feel like hitting him. I would not fancy being a woman walking about Leith at night.

The quicker I get my vespa back on the road the better. :agree:[/QUOTE


Things haven't changed since the late 70's-mid 80's..............Trainspotting was written around that time, all about the junkie way of life.

[Pete]

Disagree completely not everyone has the ability to choose their response to situations, we are not all blessed with this ability. It is a known fact that many people addicted to substances suffer from mental health problems.

:agree:

Some of the replies are disturbing and give me the impression that some people don't have the first clue about addiction. They may have lived around it or with people effected by it but their one dimensional replies speak volumes.

People who say any addict "chooses" to be an addict is wrong. Ultimately we are a product of the decisions we make but when do people make these decisions and what mental state are they in?
You don't start out from fresh then decide to be addicted to a drug. Sometimes it's a gradual progression. You don't even know you are addicted until you are made to take a step back by others and you realise your life is falling apart.

The mental health deterioration also goes hand in hand with the addiction. They both gradually get worse as the cycle continues and the longer it goes on the harder it is to acknowledge it, let alone even begin to pull yourself out.

I'd say heroin or crack has an even faster deterioration cycle than any other drug due to it's addictiveness. It can only take one hit to set you off. Anyone of any nature might make this wrong choice in dealing with their problems and become a "Junkie" because they might not posess iron willpower.

I don't believe "junkies" are any worse than any other section of society. Proportionaly, there are probably as many addicts who are evil and nasty people as there are evil and nasty football fans or supermarket workers. Difference is they're easily identifiable because of their behaviour brought on by their addiction.

I think these people should be pitied and helped, not treated as sub-human.

[blackpoolhibs]

bullets cost money :agree:

I'd donate towards that fund.

[greenlad]

Some of the replies are disturbing and give me the impression that some people don't have the first clue about addiction.

Correct - I don't have the first clue about addiction nor am I interested in learning more about it, anyway last time I checked Junkie Studies wasn't on the Higher syllabus. However I have the right to have an opinion about what society should do with criminals who target law-abiding citizens to feed their drug addiction. Sorry if my opinion disturbs you.


People who say any addict "chooses" to be an addict is wrong.

Choose Life.


I don't believe "junkies" are any worse than any other section of society. ...Difference is they're easily identifiable because of their behaviour brought on by their addiction.

And when that "behaviour" crosses into mugging, burglary, knife crime is when society should begin treating these people as sub-human - as I said above the rights of law-abiding citizens should come first every time, regardless off the background sob story to how the criminal is addicted etc.

[Saorsa]

I'd donate towards that fund.Save yer money, just tie some rocks tae them, put them in the hold of the next ship tae leave Leith and dump them when the water is deep enough. :agree: Probably no very environmentally friendly but you cannae have everything.

[CB_NO3]

:agree:

Some of the replies are disturbing and give me the impression that some people don't have the first clue about addiction. They may have lived around it or with people effected by it but their one dimensional replies speak volumes.

People who say any addict "chooses" to be an addict is wrong. Ultimately we are a product of the decisions we make but when do people make these decisions and what mental state are they in?
You don't start out from fresh then decide to be addicted to a drug. Sometimes it's a gradual progression. You don't even know you are addicted until you are made to take a step back by others and you realise your life is falling apart.

The mental health deterioration also goes hand in hand with the addiction. They both gradually get worse as the cycle continues and the longer it goes on the harder it is to acknowledge it, let alone even begin to pull yourself out.

I'd say heroin or crack has an even faster deterioration cycle than any other drug due to it's addictiveness. It can only take one hit to set you off. Anyone of any nature might make this wrong choice in dealing with their problems and become a "Junkie" because they might not posess iron willpower.

I don't believe "junkies" are any worse than any other section of society. Proportionaly, there are probably as many addicts who are evil and nasty people as there are evil and nasty football fans or supermarket workers. Difference is they're easily identifiable because of their behaviour brought on by their addiction.

I think these people should be pitied and helped, not treated as sub-human.

The way people try to feel sorry for junkies is crazy. They are breaking the law everyday. Most junkies are **** (not all of them) Around 80% never kick the habit they are getting into. They know what they are getting into in the first place. Anyone who is weak enough to try it for the first time has already admited defeat IMO. Saying that I do know one who is trying to kick his habit and is making very slow progress so heres hoping.

You then talk about addiction and how people dont understand about addictions and so on, well ill ask you a question. Do you feel sorry for paedophiles? Very much doubt so. Surely they have an addiction in either touching children or looking at pictures of children.

Trying to help junkies cost the government x millions pounds a year. Its a loosing battle.

[Wembley67]

The way people try to feel sorry for junkies is crazy. They are breaking the law everyday. Most junkies are **** (not all of them) Around 80% never kick the habit they are getting into. They know what they are getting into in the first place. Anyone who is weak enough to try it for the first time has already admited defeat IMO. Saying that I do know one who is trying to kick his habit and is making very slow progress so heres hoping.

You then talk about addiction and how people dont understand about addictions and so on, well ill ask you a question. Do you feel sorry for paedophiles? Very much doubt so. Surely they have an addiction in either touching children or looking at pictures of children.

Trying to help junkies cost the government x millions pounds a year. Its a loosing battle.

You being serious?

[CB_NO3]

You being serious?

I am quoting peterdouglas term on an addiction and mental illness which was People who say any addict "chooses" to be an addict is wrong. Ultimately we are a product of the decisions we make but when do people make these decisions and what mental state are they in?

So by that theory we should fell sorry for junkies, paedos, people who eat to much chocolate, gamblers and everyone else who has an addiction. I am disagreeing with that theory and say its bull.

[SlickShoes]

No time for these people at all.

Couple of years ago I lived in Portobello, it was nice, then a young couple moved in that were clearly junkies, I was nice to them at first and the guy seemed OK, i let him use my mobile once to call the police because his mrs had just battered him or something. Anyway they started watching when we came and went from the house and about a week later my flat was burgled as i took my dog out for half an hour at lunch time one day. In and out all my stuff was gone. The police were next to useless so that was it.

There was another one in that area too that used to just wander/cycle the promenade area and look for stuff lying in cars, looked like he was about to knife you if you got close to him.

A wee while before that taking my mrs to work along near ocean terminal we saw one walk up to a womans car and just open the door and nick her bag, luckily some guys in a van right behind her got out and chased the guy down.

Had relatives that have been addicts mostly to drink and they spent most of there life borrowing money or stealing things and dying miserable and making everyone that bothered about them miserable too.

If they dont want to help themselves then i am happy to let them rot, its pointless wasting resources on someone that doesnt want help.

[Betty Boop]

The way people try to feel sorry for junkies is crazy. They are breaking the law everyday. Most junkies are **** (not all of them) Around 80% never kick the habit they are getting into. They know what they are getting into in the first place. Anyone who is weak enough to try it for the first time has already admited defeat IMO. Saying that I do know one who is trying to kick his habit and is making very slow progress so heres hoping.

You then talk about addiction and how people dont understand about addictions and so on, well ill ask you a question. Do you feel sorry for paedophiles? Very much doubt so. Surely they have an addiction in either touching children or looking at pictures of children.

Trying to help junkies cost the government x millions pounds a year. Its a loosing battle.

I'd be interested to know where you got those figures from, and what the hell has addiction problems got to do with paedophilia ?

[CB_NO3]

I'd be interested to know where you got those figures from, and what the hell has addiction problems got to do with paedophilia ?

Surely paedophilia is an addiction to being sexualy attracted to young children no? Its not a phase or a game. A paedophile looks at one pic of a naked child, he looks at 100 pics. That to me is an addiction. A paedophiles addiction is looking at pictures of young children or even worse. A junkies addiction is shooting chemicals into his body. Both addictions, no?

[Betty Boop]

Surely paedophilia is an addiction to being sexualy attracted to young children no? Its not a phase or a game. A paedophile looks at one pic of a naked child, he looks at 100 pics. That to me is an addiction. A paedophiles addiction is looking at pictures of young children or even worse. A junkies addiction is shooting chemicals into his body. Both addictions, no?

No I think you'll find it is a mental disorder. You are trying to demonise people with addiction problems and lump them in a box with paedophiles. I don't think anybody on this thread is feeling sorry for addicts, but surely we need to understand why people turn to drugs, and encourage them to seek help with their problems, in order to make our society better for everyone. Not everybody has perfect lives !

[the_ginger_hibee]

Surely paedophilia is an addiction to being sexualy attracted to young children no? Its not a phase or a game. A paedophile looks at one pic of a naked child, he looks at 100 pics. That to me is an addiction. A paedophiles addiction is looking at pictures of young children or even worse. A junkies addiction is shooting chemicals into his body. Both addictions, no?

Your wasting your time mate. No matter what the topic on here, there is always the obligatory response of 'no their fault' 'poor them' etc. etc.

Thing is at the start of this thread, all that was mentioned was specific junkies who either - give folk abuse, threaten folk going about their normal business, deal in public or steal from bins etc. Now I could understand folk coming out with the usual 'softy softy, oh poor junkies' approach if the thread was criticising all junkies, but it wasn't. People are afflicted with addictions yes, but not all people are afflicted enough to make peoples life a general misery - that's reserved for the ****bags originally mentioned in this thread, and who I don't believe can be excused with the 'addiction' 'troubled life' 'poor them' excuses.

For what its worth, your paedophile comparison is perfectly reasonable. However you've verged on the one group of people who the 'nice soft, give them hugs' folk will never defend, despite the obvious parallels in 'addiciton', troubled life' 'cant help it' etc. etc.

[Jones28]

Some of the responses on here are frightening.

Drug addicts are without doubt some of the lowest people on society, but to speak of "...getting rid of these people...". Death camp? Nazi Germany style?

Why are these people addicted to drugs? For many it is a choice, and for these people I have absolutely ZERO sympathy as they are idiots.

But for many it's a mistake they have made, and those who have realized this have made efforts to try and kick the habit.

I'm not saying that people who have been battered or have had stuff nicked are wrong, it's just that drug-addict arguments only have one side.

I personally blame the government. Methadone is the worst idea to counter a drug addiction. It's a substitution for heroin and does nothing but lengthen the addiction. Scrap the methadone programme and put the money into recovery from addiction.

When it comes to cannabis the laws MUST be made more lenient. Legalize it. Like tobacco. Put an age limit on it and sell it from pharmacies. Tax it and make money off it. Take away the secrecy and mystique about it and cut out the stuff that goes with it ie the drug dealers. Control everything about it's importation, distribution and market. However, toughen up sentences for those who acquire it or sell it illegally.

A bit off topic with cannabis but does anyone else have the same feeling?

[ArabHibee]

The way people try to feel sorry for junkies is crazy. They are breaking the law everyday. Most junkies are **** (not all of them) Around 80% never kick the habit they are getting into.They know what they are getting into in the first place. Anyone who is weak enough to try it for the first time has already admited defeat IMO. Saying that I do know one who is trying to kick his habit and is making very slow progress so heres hoping.

You then talk about addiction and how people dont understand about addictions and so on, well ill ask you a question. Do you feel sorry for paedophiles? Very much doubt so. Surely they have an addiction in either touching children or looking at pictures of children.

Trying to help junkies cost the government x millions pounds a year. Its a loosing battle.
You could say the same thing about smokers though. They are addicts. Don't think many of them went into it thinking they would get addicted. Fortunately for them, their addiction is legal.

[Lofarl]

Sorted chaps. Why waste money on expensive bullets or chains on ships. In this hard economic climate we can save a fortune by hanging them. You only have to buy one rope and can use it time after time.

Right Economy sorted, now if we can just get some rich oil sheik to buy hibs

[magpie1892]

Some of the responses on here are frightening.

Drug addicts are without doubt some of the lowest people on society, but to speak of "...getting rid of these people...". Death camp? Nazi Germany style?

Why are these people addicted to drugs? For many it is a choice, and for these people I have absolutely ZERO sympathy as they are idiots.

But for many it's a mistake they have made, and those who have realized this have made efforts to try and kick the habit.

I'm not saying that people who have been battered or have had stuff nicked are wrong, it's just that drug-addict arguments only have one side.

I personally blame the government. Methadone is the worst idea to counter a drug addiction. It's a substitution for heroin and does nothing but lengthen the addiction. Scrap the methadone programme and put the money into recovery from addiction.

When it comes to cannabis the laws MUST be made more lenient. Legalize it. Like tobacco. Put an age limit on it and sell it from pharmacies. Tax it and make money off it. Take away the secrecy and mystique about it and cut out the stuff that goes with it ie the drug dealers. Control everything about it's importation, distribution and market. However, toughen up sentences for those who acquire it or sell it illegally.

A bit off topic with cannabis but does anyone else have the same feeling?

Best post on this thread by a distance, especially the first sentence.

Know a couple of guys personally and a few more professionally that say methadone is worse than heroin to get off.

Legislate heroin, give mandatory 30-year sentences for dealers, get addicts to register so they don't have to screw people/flats/cars for the fix (85% of shoplifting is to realise cash for drugs) and get them off the junk with (initially) heavy doses of valium, reducing slowly so as not to get withdrawal.

People say the 'war on drugs' is lost. I don't believe that. The terms just need to be redifined. A wee doobage never hurt anyone. Those that are addicted to junk need detoxed ASAP and those that sell it can get 30 years or, has been suggested, shot in the head.

The attitude to heroin in the UK, and especially Scotland, is totally archaic.

If I didn't have a job of work I would do something about it myself, as it breaks my heart - and offends me - when I see junkies wandering around lidl Dalry trying to shop/steal and not doing so well at either.

[Woody1985]

Something strangely coincidental to this thread happened to me yesterday after the game.

I got on the bus after the game on leith walk. I'm with my granda so we sit up the back downstairs and there's a junkie talking away about random stuff and the football with what seemed a really educated older hibs fan who must have got on before us. He was really happy go lucky and quite a funny guy.

He apologised for swearing during conversation and generally well mannered other than having his feet up on the seat and silly stuff.

It Was quite surreal after what I and others have posted on here recently.

[CropleyWasGod]

Best post on this thread by a distance, especially the first sentence.

Know a couple of guys personally and a few more professionally that say methadone is worse than heroin to get off.

Legislate heroin, give mandatory 30-year sentences for dealers, get addicts to register so they don't have to screw people/flats/cars for the fix (85% of shoplifting is to realise cash for drugs) and get them off the junk with (initially) heavy doses of valium, reducing slowly so as not to get withdrawal.

People say the 'war on drugs' is lost. I don't believe that. The terms just need to be redifined. A wee doobage never hurt anyone. Those that are addicted to junk need detoxed ASAP and those that sell it can get 30 years or, has been suggested, shot in the head.

The attitude to heroin in the UK, and especially Scotland, is totally archaic.

If I didn't have a job of work I would do something about it myself, as it breaks my heart - and offends me - when I see junkies wandering around lidl Dalry trying to shop/steal and not doing so well at either.

It's not often I agree with you on here, but this is what I have been saying, on here and elsewhere, for years. Break the link between organised crime and addiction and we score twice; less crime (both petty and major) and better care for those in need of it.

As a society, we tolerate those of us with legal addictions, indeed we have a moral responsibility to do so. We also have a moral responsibility to those at the mercy of stronger people and pressures than they.

[magpie1892]

It's not often I agree with you on here, but this is what I have been saying, on here and elsewhere, for years. Break the link between organised crime and addiction and we score twice; less crime (both petty and major) and better care for those in need of it.

As a society, we tolerate those of us with legal addictions, indeed we have a moral responsibility to do so. We also have a moral responsibility to those at the mercy of stronger people and pressures than they.

What's most apparent is that the current 'situation' is totally chaotic. I am certain, however, that the political will needed to make the required changes is absent. You'd think politicians would be all over this as a vote winner but I'm not seeing anyone challenging the horrendous status quo.

[CropleyWasGod]

What's most apparent is that the current 'situation' is totally chaotic. I am certain, however, that the political will needed to make the required changes is absent. You'd think politicians would be all over this as a vote winner but I'm not seeing anyone challenging the horrendous status quo.

Nah, it's not a vote winner, despite the rationale behind it. Indeed, it's probably the opposite.... the moment any politician says anything like this, they will be shot down in flames of moralistic outrage.

[hibsbollah]

Something strangely coincidental to this thread happened to me yesterday after the game.

I got on the bus after the game on leith walk. I'm with my granda so we sit up the back downstairs and there's a junkie talking away about random stuff and the football with what seemed a really educated older hibs fan who must have got on before us. He was really happy go lucky and quite a funny guy.

He apologised for swearing during conversation and generally well mannered other than having his feet up on the seat and silly stuff.

It Was quite surreal after what I and others have posted on here recently.

I think i was on your bus...#7? If not it was a very similar gadgie!

[Woody1985]

I think i was on your bus...#7? If not it was a very similar gadgie!

Is gadgie an Edinburgh thing? :faf:

Yeah, that's the one. I've got short hair and was reading the paper in front of the guy and sitting next to my granda. I thought someone on here would probably pop up! :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

He was a smelly weegie celtc junkie, but he wasnt a bad guy, strangely:)

[magpie1892]

Nah, it's not a vote winner, despite the rationale behind it. Indeed, it's probably the opposite.... the moment any politician says anything like this, they will be shot down in flames of moralistic outrage.

I dunno... Five years ago I'd have agreed with you but I think the public is ready for something new. Current legislation in in this regard is clearly not working.

[HibeeSince85]

I dunno... Five years ago I'd have agreed with you but I think the public is ready for something new. Current legislation in in this regard is clearly not working.

I agree with what your saying but Cropley's right, nobody will touch this due to the reaction it would get, you know what the media are like now.

[CropleyWasGod]

I agree with what your saying but Cropley's right, nobody will touch this due to the reaction it would get, you know what the media are like now.

***ake. Me right, on here? That'll be a bloody first....

No, I do agree. Much as there is a shift in public and academic opinion towards state control, politics is a different game. Whilst politicians with such a view might get a lot of respect, you can imagine the opponents' strategy...."and you, sir, want to make junkies legal!" :rolleyes:

It took the best part of 40 years to get cannabis decriminalised, by which time skunk had made all the arguments hollow. I reckon it will be a long time before our elected reps are comfortable with doing the same for all drugs.

[magpie1892]

***ake. Me right, on here? That'll be a bloody first....

No, I do agree. Much as there is a shift in public and academic opinion towards state control, politics is a different game. Whilst politicians with such a view might get a lot of respect, you can imagine the opponents' strategy...."and you, sir, want to make junkies legal!" :rolleyes:

It took the best part of 40 years to get cannabis decriminalised, by which time skunk had made all the arguments hollow. I reckon it will be a long time before our elected reps are comfortable with doing the same for all drugs.

On reflection, I am inclined to agree with your original position.

So we're screwed, then?

[Sergio sledge]

Some horrendous posts in this thread some people have a serious lack of compassion.

My parents worked with recovering addicts for many years with our house often being used as a halfway house for guys coming out of rehab.

There are two things that addicts all have in common:

1. They all have a hard luck story as to how they became addicts.
2. The all at some point have made the choice whether to continue with the drugs or get off them. This often happens more than once in their life.

Unfortunately, and maybe I'm going to generalise a bit here, the addicts often are people who don't have the mental capacity or strength of will to break out of the life they have got themselves into. The longer they are on the drugs the more their mental capacity and strength of will deteriorates. Unfortunately I have seen many, many extremely nice people with genuine hard luck stories who get themselves clean but continually go back to the drugs, almost always within a short time of re-entering the real world. As the cycle continues, without the support they need once they return to the real world, these addicts generally come to the point where they don't even try to get themselves clean any more as it is not worth the effort or pain.

There are a lot of addicts who don't seem to want to get clean, but I'd be prepared to put my neck on the line and say that almost all of them will at some point have tried getting clean and not been able to or not had the support they needed to get clean. Sadly no matter what levels of support are provided, some people are so far down the line that they are beyond help save for having a permanent carer with them 24-7.

I don't know what the answer is and I don't think there is one quick fix but IMHO (no matter what you think of their beliefs) organisations like this (http://www.bethanychristiantrust.com/sevenlevels/index.php) are sadly underfunded and thin on the ground because this is the sort of thing a lot of addicts need.

With reference to a post earlier where someone mentioned a figure of 80% never kicking the habit, from personal experience and not based on any statistics I don't think this is too far off the mark, but its perhaps nearer 70%.

[Greentinted]

I don't consider myself to be a bleeding hearted, lily-livered liberal (far from it if truth be told) but neither am I a callous, cold-blooded, savage with a granite heart guilded in cobalt either. I also like to think I'm reasonably well informed (at least not to make such woefully moronic and innacurate sweeping statements such as drug addiction = paedophilia - deary me!!!)

Anyway, like many others who have contributed to this thread, I don't have the answers but that's because the questions are so difficult to grasp in the first place. While this started with an observation of heroin addicts ('junkies' in the proper sense of the word), it has opened up into a discussion regarding other forms of chemical dependance.
Yes, there are a high number of 'junkies' who blight our society but even they will tell you (when in more circumspect mode) that they want to get 'clean', but opiod addiction is a monumental vice with it being both one which is psychological and physiological. The one thing, above all others that I always consider is that there is no such thing as an 'ex-addict', that is a huge misnomer. An addict must always respect the source of his/her addiction simply because the source will never respect him/her. Particularly when in recovery mode.

I live in an area with a high percentage of drug addicts and the knock-on effect in terms of crime/anti-social behaviour is seismic and that is where my sympathy is stretched - those who appear to be quite happy to continue in the same vein indefinitely, often because the alternatives on offer are paltry reward for attempting to walk the staright and narrow paths - and here, the word 'narrow' is pertinent - and I have been known to lose the head on occasion. Doesn't make me right (or wrong, just human). But while this form of social malaise does seem more prevalant in so called lower-class strata this is perhaps because of other factors running in tandem (poor diet, poor upbringing, low incentivisation, governmental neglect, etc, etc) often its too easy for the so-called lower classes to invoke these various agencies as mitigation in the poor-me blame culture that amplifies by the day. Personal responsibility is at a premium moreso than ever before these days, and while Cameron can pontificate about his 'Big Society' till he is red white and blue in the face, individuals who are serious about tackling their addictions rigourously must be encouraged but not necessarily carried to success.

Esteem issues prevail, as do many social worthyness ones - I mean, heroin doesnt judge you does it? heroin (or alcohol, or nicotine, or whatever your thing may be) is your friend, at your beck and call whenever you need a friend and for many, there is no substitue for that. But little does the addict know in the early stages, that this friend will exact a severe penalty, eventually, for its companionship.

Its all very well being invited to 'choose' life but when life itself sems to hold no great pull in itself, then who am I, or you, to give it the holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, all addicts are **** lecture.

[southfieldhibby]

I work on Junction Street and see how the addicts act on a daily basis, it's not nice.From what I can tell, they are career junkies and thrive on the routine of waiting for Rodgers to open, hang about in The Kirkgate, rummage thru the bins at the heart foundation, hastle people for 50p for 'a cup of tea', roam about in gangs openly swigging meth or buying pills and generally making the street a nightmare.They are not good for business, that's for sure.

Over the last year or so, I've noticed more and more of them and it feels to me like they are being shoved into Leith by whoever houses them, in the last week I've seen two fights in the middle of the road.

The police had under-cover guys roaming about last month, but I noticed them right away so no doubt the jaikies and junkies did too.A constant overt police presence is required, but that would be asking too much from the large amount of tax/rates I pay.

[Beefster]

You then talk about addiction and how people dont understand about addictions and so on, well ill ask you a question. Do you feel sorry for paedophiles? Very much doubt so. Surely they have an addiction in either touching children or looking at pictures of children.

Rather than paedophiles, I'd have thought that smokers, fat folk and alcoholics might have been more valid comparisons. It may not be illegal to buy cigarettes, pasties or alcohol but they all cause the same type of physical dependence.

[SvenNeil]

Emily is a 10 year old girl who is lonely, isolated and suffers from panic attacks having witnessed extreme violence and alcohol abuse in her family. She has had no childhood due to sexual abuse she has experienced. Everyone who knows her wants to help Emily and society cares.

Fast forward 10 years and Emily is now seen as 'junkie ****' who deserves everything she get because of her addiction. She is hated and loathed by those who never look beyond her addiction as she 'brought it on herself'. Emily is not yet one of the 545 drug related deaths in Scotland (2009).

Some of the comments on here are typical of how society views addiction yet there are thousands of people in Scotland who overcome the problems that led to their addiction and achieve lifelong recovery. Few people would defend their behavior when in active addiction and part of recovery for many is to atone for the hurt and pain caused to others.

Some of those people are hibby's too.

www.sdrconsortium.org

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Emily is a 10 year old girl who is lonely, isolated and suffers from panic attacks having witnessed extreme violence and alcohol abuse in her family. She has had no childhood due to sexual abuse she has experienced. Everyone who knows her wants to help Emily and society cares.

Fast forward 10 years and Emily is now seen as 'junkie ****' who deserves everything she get because of her addiction. She is hated and loathed by those who never look beyond her addiction as she 'brought it on herself'. Emily is not yet one of the 545 drug related deaths in Scotland (2009).

Some of the comments on here are typical of how society views addiction yet there are thousands of people in Scotland who overcome the problems that led to their addiction and achieve lifelong recovery. Few people would defend their behavior when in active addiction and part of recovery for many is to atone for the hurt and pain caused to others.

Some of those people are hibby's too.

www.sdrconsortium.org


Turn your example on its head though...

What do you think of Emily's parents? Poor misguided soles who never had a chance, or ****my parents who f**ed up their childs life, and who perpetuate the spiral of the underclass?

It seems to me that you can find an excuse for any behaviour in the world (in i do understand what the earlier poster was saying about peadophilia - it isnt their fault, they have probably been abused and they have probably had their norms warped to the extent that they have become peadophiles).

Similar to Emily, whose mental and phyisical development would have been stunted by ****my parents no looking after her properly, whose emotional development and ability to deal with stress will be null because of the same reasons, and who therefore will turn to drugs, probably have more little Emilys and keep the whole spiral going.

Im not saying that is her fault, but the question that has to be asked is:

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who worl all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.

A peado cant help being a peado, but is compassion towards them worth risking a child? Of course not.

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

[Woody1985]

Turn your example on its head though...

What do you think of Emily's parents? Poor misguided soles who never had a chance, or ****my parents who f**ed up their childs life, and who perpetuate the spiral of the underclass?

It seems to me that you can find an excuse for any behaviour in the world (in i do understand what the earlier poster was saying about peadophilia - it isnt their fault, they have probably been abused and they have probably had their norms warped to the extent that they have become peadophiles).

Similar to Emily, whose mental and phyisical development would have been stunted by ****my parents no looking after her properly, whose emotional development and ability to deal with stress will be null because of the same reasons, and who therefore will turn to drugs, probably have more little Emilys and keep the whole spiral going.

Im not saying that is her fault, but the question that has to be asked is:

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who worl all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.

A peado cant help being a peado, but is compassion towards them worth risking a child? Of course not.

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

:top marks

[ArabHibee]

I went for a walk at lunchtime today, walked along London Road. I wanted to take a shortcut through the gardens, but when I looked along to the path and steps where I wanted to go, there was 3 either alcoholics or druggies sitting on the steps.
Now I could have chanced my mitt and walked past them but I just didn't want to take the chance, especially when I was walking along with a plastic bag advertising the chemist I'd just picked a prescription up from. (Not sure how high they would have got off of steroid cream, but you never know) I ended up taking the long way round.

Point is, as much as I realise these folk should have some compassion shown to them, why should I have to feel scared, just for going for a walk along the road?

[greenlad]

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who worl all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.
....

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

:agree:
Exactly the point I was trying to make, only much better made

[HibsMax]

There are some interesting sound-bites being kicked around here as though they are fact and I don't know that they are. Maybe they are, maybe they're not. Has there ever been a study on drug addicts? A survey that asks questions like:
1. when did you start?
2. why did you start?
3. why don't you stop?
4. was it your intention to become addicted to drugs and lead a life of crime?

I do feel sorry for drug addicts even though their habit drives them, sometimes, to lead a life of crime. I am talking about addicts collectively, not individuals.

I don't believe that all drug addicts intend to live their lives as an addict. Maybe some do but on the whole I bet they don't.

It might be a drug addict's own choices that lead them to be an addict but that doesn't mean that it was avoidable. Who knows what was going through that person's head at the time? Who knows what mental state they were in.

I didn't read all the posts on page 2 so maybe this did get mentioned but why are people outraged with the addicts (who have a serious problem) rather than the authorities that are supposed to deal with them?

I'll leave it at that because many other posters have mirrored my own feelings so there is no need to repeat it all.

In parting I will say that I think it's a sad state of affairs that people live their lives as drug addicts. I think they deserve help just as much as other people with REAL problems. Without outside intervention I think these people are destined to live their lives, the same day over and over again.

[Woody1985]

People aren't angry at the authorities because they don't, and shouldn't, be living our lives for us. The penalties for low level crime mean they can't be dealt with effectively from that perspective and councillors can only do so much.

[J-C]

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who work all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?
Junkies aren't the only people robbing on our streets though.
I was broken into just after my dad died, wee **** from Broomhouse, not junkies, just wee 15-16 yr old neds from a housing scheme.

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.

A peado cant help being a peado, but is compassion towards them worth risking a child? Of course not.

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

Your last paragraph is spot on though.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Turn your example on its head though...

What do you think of Emily's parents? Poor misguided soles who never had a chance, or ****my parents who f**ed up their childs life, and who perpetuate the spiral of the underclass?

It seems to me that you can find an excuse for any behaviour in the world (in i do understand what the earlier poster was saying about peadophilia - it isnt their fault, they have probably been abused and they have probably had their norms warped to the extent that they have become peadophiles).

Similar to Emily, whose mental and phyisical development would have been stunted by ****my parents no looking after her properly, whose emotional development and ability to deal with stress will be null because of the same reasons, and who therefore will turn to drugs, probably have more little Emilys and keep the whole spiral going.

Im not saying that is her fault, but the question that has to be asked is:

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who worl all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.

A peado cant help being a peado, but is compassion towards them worth risking a child? Of course not.

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

Good post. :top marks:

I don't know whether it will help those addicted to drugs, but other people have rights as well.

[500miles]

Turn your example on its head though...

What do you think of Emily's parents? Poor misguided soles who never had a chance, or ****my parents who f**ed up their childs life, and who perpetuate the spiral of the underclass?

It seems to me that you can find an excuse for any behaviour in the world (in i do understand what the earlier poster was saying about peadophilia - it isnt their fault, they have probably been abused and they have probably had their norms warped to the extent that they have become peadophiles).

Similar to Emily, whose mental and phyisical development would have been stunted by ****my parents no looking after her properly, whose emotional development and ability to deal with stress will be null because of the same reasons, and who therefore will turn to drugs, probably have more little Emilys and keep the whole spiral going.

Im not saying that is her fault, but the question that has to be asked is:

Is it the fault of the wee old woman who gets robbed or battered for her handbag? Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Middle Class who worl all day to have a nice house and then get robbed?

We should have compassion for people, but not at the expense of other people who do not choose to abrogate their responsbilities to society.

A peado cant help being a peado, but is compassion towards them worth risking a child? Of course not.

In my opinion we have to begin with protecting the honest, good people in society - if that means that junkies, peados etc have to be treated a bit more harshly than we would all generally like as compassionate humans, then im afraid its just tough, life isnt fair.

Until you can show me someone like this who stands up to scrutiny, then your arguement falls flat.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Until you can show me someone like this who stands up to scrutiny, then your arguement falls flat.

Eh? Im not sure i understand your point?

Do you mean there are no good people in society? I agree we all have foibles, im sure most if not all have been guilty of dishonesty in some form or another, have probably broken some rules or something of that ilk.

But if you are saying that someone who lives a drug-addled existence, and whose contribution to society is only to take and make the health/crime/economic stats worse (i know not all addicts are like that, but im talking about the ones who are), is no worse than some pensioner who is walking down the street minding her own business (pretty sure an old women was battered around the face and mugged in the last few weeks) then i completely disagree.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Eh? Im not sure i understand your point?

Do you mean there are no good people in society? I agree we all have foibles, im sure most if not all have been guilty of dishonesty in some form or another, have probably broken some rules or something of that ilk.

But if you are saying that someone who lives a drug-addled existence, and whose contribution to society is only to take and make the health/crime/economic stats worse (i know not all addicts are like that, but im talking about the ones who are), is no worse than some pensioner who is walking down the street minding her own business (pretty sure an old women was battered around the face and mugged in the last few weeks) then i completely disagree.

I believe that drugs can control people's lives, I believe that poverty can also control people's lives. With the limited resources we have, we need to prioritise where help can be given best.

It seems to me that drug addicts are a pretty low priority as to the success rate achieved versus the resources applied. I also think that a more sane policy on drugs would go a long way to helping drug addicts live productive lives.

It's an old chestnut, but society tolerates functioning alcoholics, why shouldn't it tolerate functioning heroin addicts?

[lapsedhibee]

It's an old chestnut, but society tolerates functioning alcoholics, why shouldn't it tolerate functioning heroin addicts?

:agree: Seems to me there's two separate issues here, which often get confused. There's being an addict and being a waster, and the two are not inextricably linked. Plenty of addicts live useful and productive lives, and plenty don't. Shirley tolerance and sympathy can be extended to the addiction but withheld from the wasting. Wasn't Sherlock Holmes a bit of a cokehead, though he did all right for himself (own TV series, statue in Picardy Place, etc)? :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: Seems to me there's two separate issues here, which often get confused. There's being an addict and being a waster, and the two are not inextricably linked. Plenty of addicts live useful and productive lives, and plenty don't. Shirley tolerance and sympathy can be extended to the addiction but withheld from the wasting. Wasn't Sherlock Holmes a bit of a cokehead, though he did all right for himself (own TV series, statue in Picardy Place, etc)? :wink:

An interesting (but barely relevant) fact is that DNA was discovered by a man on an acid trip. He reckons the LSD opened up perceptual barriers that allowed him to visualise what it looked like.

[Woody1985]

Where are these useful and productive smack heads? You're kidding right?

A drug like that sucks the life, desire and will to do anything with their lives other than come up with schemes to rip as much money and drugs from the government and tax payer as possible.

When they're walking around hunched over with that greasy, sweaty look it gives me the boak.

I'll give them one thing, they're not daft and seem to develop some sort of superhuman skills to be as sleekit as possible.

[lapsedhibee]

Where are these useful and productive smack heads? You're kidding right?

A drug like that sucks the life, desire and will to do anything with their lives other than come up with schemes to rip as much money and drugs from the government and tax payer as possible.

When they're walking around hunched over with that greasy, sweaty look it gives me the boak.

I'll give them one thing, they're not daft and seem to develop some sort of superhuman skills to be as sleekit as possible.

I'm suggesting that you can have a habit, of legal or illegal substances or behaviours, and have a job. Tobacco, alcohol, shopping, washing your hands over and over again, whatever. Having a habit does not itself necessarily make you a waster.

"Winick (1961) conducted a major study of a body of physician narcotic users, most of whom had been found out because of suspicious prescription activities. Nearly all these doctors had stabilized their dosages of a narcotic (in most cases Demerol) over the years, did not suffer diminished capacities, and were able to fit their narcotic use into successful medical practices and what appeared to be rewarding lives overall.

Zinberg and Lewis (1964) identified a range of patterns of narcotic use, among which the classic addictive pattern was only one variant that appeared in a minority of cases. One subject in this study, a physician, took morphine four times a day but abstained on weekends and two months a year during vacations. Tracked for over a decade, this man neither increased his dosage nor suffered withdrawal during his periods of abstinence (Zinberg and Jacobson 1976). On the basis of two decades of investigation of such cases, Zinberg (1984) analyzed the factors that separate the addicted from the nonaddicted drug user. Primarily, controlled users, like Winick's physicians, subordinate their desire for a drug to other values, activities, and personal relationships, so that the narcotic or other drug does not dominate their lives. When engaged in other pursuits that they value, these users do not crave the drug or manifest withdrawal on discontinuing their drug use. Furthermore, controlled use of narcotics is not limited to physicians or to middle-class drug users. Lukoff and Brook (1974) found that a majority of ghetto users of heroin had stable home and work involvements, which would hardly be possible in the presence of uncontrollable craving."

[Phil D. Rolls]

Where are these useful and productive smack heads? You're kidding right?

A drug like that sucks the life, desire and will to do anything with their lives other than come up with schemes to rip as much money and drugs from the government and tax payer as possible.

When they're walking around hunched over with that greasy, sweaty look it gives me the boak.

I'll give them one thing, they're not daft and seem to develop some sort of superhuman skills to be as sleekit as possible.

When I was a cab driver, I spoke to a pharmacist once, who worked in the Comely Bank area. She told me she is as busy as anyone else dispensing methadone. Many of her customers had highly responsible jobs.

[whaley]

Wasn't Sherlock Holmes a bit of a cokehead, though he did all right for himself (own TV series, statue in Picardy Place, etc)? :wink:

I suspect the issue here is not that they're junkies but that they're anti-social junkies. If Sherlock had spent a little less time playing his violin and solving crimes and more time intimidating people in the Kirkgate and raiding the wheelie bins behind charity shops then he may not have received so many plaudits.

[lapsedhibee]

I suspect the issue here is not that they're junkies but that they're anti-social junkies. If Sherlock had spent a little less time playing his violin and solving crimes and more time intimidating people in the Kirkgate and raiding the wheelie bins behind charity shops then he may not have received so many plaudits.

:agree:

[Antifa Hibs]

When I was a cab driver, I spoke to a pharmacist once, who worked in the Comely Bank area. She told me she is as busy as anyone else dispensing methadone. Many of her customers had highly responsible jobs.

I highly doubt that. Not doubting that she said that, or that's what she believes, but a chemist is Comely Bank dishing out as much meth as those in Sighthill, Wester Hails, Drylaw, Muirhouse, Granton etc.....?


I'm all for giving folk a second chance and believe in rehabilitation. There does however come a point for me when I think i'd rather see some of these smackheid's under the number 1 bus.

Would be interesting to see where folk on this thread are from? Interesting if they have witnessed junkies threaten and abuse chemist workers (female workers I should add), if they've taken the wee one for a pack of sweets and stickers and seen some junkie KO'd on the deck in the street, if they've witnessed shop workers and security guards get assualted and verbally abused, if they themselves have been threatened by 'them', if their parents/kids have to walk past 30 junkies every morning to get to work/school/bus stop/get the rolls in, while they all que outside the chemist to get their meth?

[bighairyfaeleith]

My wife was sitting in boots the other week waiting on her prescription, guy sitting beside her was quite clearly a junkie, jaw going etc etc.

Anyway, my wife had our daughter with er, he started to make conversation, said how bonny she was for a wee baby etc. My wife spoke back and the guy actually came across as quite decent.

The woman from boots came to speak to him about his script and he spoke quite openly about his addiction and that he was trying to get off them but for various reasons he couldn't

Anyway, long story short, my wife never at any time felt threatened by the guy, in fact, she actually thought that despite his issues he seemed a decent guy, the woman from boots obviously felt the same because she knew him well and was conversing as though they were friends.

Not all junkies are equal, some are ****, but not all!!

[Beefster]

My wife was sitting in boots the other week waiting on her prescription, guy sitting beside her was quite clearly a junkie, jaw going etc etc.

Anyway, my wife had our daughter with er, he started to make conversation, said how bonny she was for a wee baby etc. My wife spoke back and the guy actually came across as quite decent.

The woman from boots came to speak to him about his script and he spoke quite openly about his addiction and that he was trying to get off them but for various reasons he couldn't

Anyway, long story short, my wife never at any time felt threatened by the guy, in fact, she actually thought that despite his issues he seemed a decent guy, the woman from boots obviously felt the same because she knew him well and was conversing as though they were friends.

Not all junkies are equal, some are ****, but not all!!

You're absolutely right. Just like all groups that folk can be categorised into, there are some that are ****bags, some that are okay and some that are thoroughly decent.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I highly doubt that. Not doubting that she said that, or that's what she believes, but a chemist is Comely Bank dishing out as much meth as those in Sighthill, Wester Hails, Drylaw, Muirhouse, Granton etc.....?


I'm all for giving folk a second chance and believe in rehabilitation. There does however come a point for me when I think i'd rather see some of these smackheid's under the number 1 bus.

Would be interesting to see where folk on this thread are from? Interesting if they have witnessed junkies threaten and abuse chemist workers (female workers I should add), if they've taken the wee one for a pack of sweets and stickers and seen some junkie KO'd on the deck in the street, if they've witnessed shop workers and security guards get assualted and verbally abused, if they themselves have been threatened by 'them', if their parents/kids have to walk past 30 junkies every morning to get to work/school/bus stop/get the rolls in, while they all que outside the chemist to get their meth?

I don't think the volume of Methadone she was dispensing is significant. The main point I was making was that addicts hold down jobs such as doctor or lawyer. It is possible to be a functioning addict.

I live in Muirhouse, and see junkies on a daily basis. I've got no time for them at all.

[Greentinted]

Wasn't Sherlock Holmes a bit of a cokehead, though he did all right for himself (own TV series, statue in Picardy Place, etc)? :wink:

Sherlock was into smoking Opium (hence the pipe), although granted he's no real :greengrin


Where are these useful and productive smack heads?

Theres this lot (http://www.life.com/image/50698313/in-gallery/38742#index/0) for a start (although not all strictly speaking 'smackheads')

ST Coleridge was a hopeless, chronic laudanam addict (his pal Wordsworth got well pissed off with him because of it); add to him Eric Clapton, David Bowie, Robert Kennedy, Will Self, Winston Churchill, Antony Eden and Sigmund Freud and there's a few who have been in various ways, useful and productive whilst managing an addiction.

As FR says, there is a world of difference between a functioning addict (everybody here will be acquainted with at least one such person I would confidently suggest) and an anti-social, waste of space junkie!

[discman]

[QUOTE=Filled Rolls;2756802]An interesting (but barely relevant) fact is that DNA was discovered by a man on an acid trip. He reckons the LSD opened up perceptual barriers that allowed him to visualise what it looked like.[/QUOT


Thought it was Crick and Watson ????

[lapsedhibee]

An interesting (but barely relevant) fact is that DNA was discovered by a man on an acid trip. He reckons the LSD opened up perceptual barriers that allowed him to visualise what it looked like.


Thought it was Crick and Watson ????
That's the man.

[Woody1985]

I think there's a difference between a clean opiate addiction than the smackheads injecting up and being antisocial all over Scotland with their hunched walks and nasaly voices.

[lapsedhibee]

Sherlock was into smoking Opium (hence the pipe), although granted he's no real :greengrin

My information is injecting cocaine (3 times a day) and smoking tobacco, though he once posed as an opium smoker on a job, visiting a den. And I don't know why you think he wasn't real - there was until very recently a statue of him in Picardy Place! He even had a Hibs scarf on for a while! Was Billy Bremner not real? Brian Clough? :panic:

[Mibbes Aye]

My information is injecting cocaine (3 times a day) and smoking tobacco, though he once posed as an opium smoker on a job, visiting a den. And I don't know why you think he wasn't real - there was until very recently a statue of him in Picardy Place! He even had a Hibs scarf on for a while! Was Billy Bremner not real? Brian Clough?

Apposite point given that before his European glory with Aston Villa he had worn the green and white :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Apposite point given that before his European glory with Aston Villa he had worn the green and white :agree:

:agree: Could have been a top, top player if he'd stayed out of the bookies.

[sambajustice]

There is always a choice.

:agree:

ENDOF!

[hstn747]

Obviously criminal and anti-social behaviour in relation to addiction can't be excused and shouldn't be ignored.

However, there is always going to be a problem while addicts are criminalised and have to deal with the criminal gangs who control the supply of drugs.

Most drug addicts aren't going to be cured, so surely it is better to take the supply of drugs out of the hands of criminals and allow medical services to manage users' addictions through prescription. This could prevent so many people becoming criminals as a result of addiction as this will surely cause them to stray further from normal society. Putting them in jail is never going to help. It's probably going to make things worse by putting them in contact with hardened criminals.

This is not a long term solution but surely it would be better than allowing criminal gangs to decide who gets drugs. These gangs get people addicted by preying on the vulnerable.

The long term solution has to be spending large sums of money on preventing children being caught up in the usual downwards spiral. It might be too late to change a lot of their parents but it's not for the children.

Money needs to be spent to provide extra help to ensure they come out of primary school able to read and write & count. It also has to be spent to ensure any mental health issues they have are treated. This includes their ability to cope with stressful situations and the effects of foetal alcohol syndrome and any other effects of their parents' addictions.

[Greentinted]

Obviously criminal and anti-social behaviour in relation to addiction can't be excused and shouldn't be ignored.

However, there is always going to be a problem while addicts are criminalised and have to deal with the criminal gangs who control the supply of drugs.

Most drug addicts aren't going to be cured, so surely it is better to take the supply of drugs out of the hands of criminals and allow medical services to manage users' addictions through prescription. This could prevent so many people becoming criminals as a result of addiction as this will surely cause them to stray further from normal society. Putting them in jail is never going to help. It's probably going to make things worse by putting them in contact with hardened criminals.

This is not a long term solution but surely it would be better than allowing criminal gangs to decide who gets drugs. These gangs get people addicted by preying on the vulnerable.

The long term solution has to be spending large sums of money on preventing children being caught up in the usual downwards spiral. It might be too late to change a lot of their parents but it's not for the children.

Money needs to be spent to provide extra help to ensure they come out of primary school able to read and write & count. It also has to be spent to ensure any mental health issues they have are treated. This includes their ability to cope with stressful situations and the effects of foetal alcohol syndrome and any other effects of their parents' addictions.

:top marks

[RyeSloan]

Obviously criminal and anti-social behaviour in relation to addiction can't be excused and shouldn't be ignored.

However, there is always going to be a problem while addicts are criminalised and have to deal with the criminal gangs who control the supply of drugs.

Most drug addicts aren't going to be cured, so surely it is better to take the supply of drugs out of the hands of criminals and allow medical services to manage users' addictions through prescription. This could prevent so many people becoming criminals as a result of addiction as this will surely cause them to stray further from normal society. Putting them in jail is never going to help. It's probably going to make things worse by putting them in contact with hardened criminals.

This is not a long term solution but surely it would be better than allowing criminal gangs to decide who gets drugs. These gangs get people addicted by preying on the vulnerable.The long term solution has to be spending large sums of money on preventing children being caught up in the usual downwards spiral. It might be too late to change a lot of their parents but it's not for the children.

Money needs to be spent to provide extra help to ensure they come out of primary school able to read and write & count. It also has to be spent to ensure any mental health issues they have are treated. This includes their ability to cope with stressful situations and the effects of foetal alcohol syndrome and any other effects of their parents' addictions.

I agree with a lot of what you say...sadly it's all to sensible but politically dangerous for us to see action along these lines any time soon.

I highlighted the bit in bold for a reason though...this is the classic 'pusher' argument. I've not seen too much evidence of drug suppliers actively seeking new users, I would suggest that it is actually the other way round. The drug user seeks out the supply and is the very reason why taking dealers off the streets has no impact, the addict quickly finds another route to obtain his hit...absolutely no need for anyone to prey on them or seek them out.

Junkies as highlighted by the OP are a scourge no doubt however as FR has pointed out I'm pretty sure a lot of this is actually caused by the head in the sand national drugs policy and a mature and sensible approach would go a long way to reducing the impact of these peoples addictions on the rest of society.

[Pretty Boy]

I can't be the only one who finds it mildly amusing that some of those most disgusted by the behaviour of drug users on this thread, some going as far as threatening violence, are on a thread in the dug out referring to Charlie Sheen as a 'lad' or a 'legend'.

[Betty Boop]

I can't be the only one who finds it mildly amusing that some of those most disgusted by the behaviour of drug users on this thread, some going as far as threatening violence, are on a thread in the dug out referring to Charlie Sheen as a 'lad' or a 'legend'.

:top marks Quite ! Charlie is a celebrity 'junkie' though! :rolleyes:

[Judas Iscariot]

I can't be the only one who finds it mildly amusing that some of those most disgusted by the behaviour of drug users on this thread, some going as far as threatening violence, are on a thread in the dug out referring to Charlie Sheen as a 'lad' or a 'legend'.

Didn't realise he robbed, threatened, hung around street corners, cost tax payers money etc

[easty]

Didn't realise he robbed, threatened, hung around street corners, cost tax payers money etc

I did. Only last week I was woken up in the middle of the night by a noise from the living room. Went through, baseball bat in hand, and found Charlie Sheen stuffing my dvd's into a bag. He saw me, pulled out a knife then started screaming and ran past me and out the door, leaving a trail of white powder behind him.

Charlie Sheen....he's the worst kind of junkie.:wink:

[Sergio sledge]

Didn't realise he robbed, threatened, hung around street corners, cost tax payers money etc

But he does have an assault conviction, did beat up his wife, go on the rampage in a hotel etc.....I suppose people who do that are legends right enough....:rolleyes:

[easty]

But he does have an assault conviction, did beat up his wife, go on the rampage in a hotel etc.....I suppose people who do that are legends right enough....:rolleyes:

Hot Shots Part deux alone must have relinquished any legend status he could possibly ever have achieved.

[Pretty Boy]

Didn't realise he robbed, threatened, hung around street corners, cost tax payers money etc

Shot his girlfriend in the arm in 1990.
Charged with menacing, 3rd degree assault and criminal mischief, eventually convicted of midemenour assault as part of a a plea bargain.
A restraining order preventing him approaching his ex wife or children.
Hospitalised as a result of a cocaine overdose.

Yes i'm sure the numerous court cases, custody hearings, divorce hearings etc didn't cost the tax payer money and i certainly don't see any threatening behaviour whatsoever.:rolleyes:

I'm not even sure i get your point, are you suggesting that it's not habitual drug use that you consider wrong merely the social effects it causes? Or are you promoting a laissez faire attitude towards drug use where people should be free to use drugs provided it doesn't impact upon the wider society?

[Beefster]

Shot his girlfriend in the arm in 1990.
Charged with menacing, 3rd degree assault and criminal mischief, eventually convicted of midemenour assault as part of a a plea bargain.
A restraining order preventing him approaching his ex wife or children.
Hospitalised as a result of a cocaine overdose.

Yes i'm sure the numerous court cases, custody hearings, divorce hearings etc didn't cost the tax payer money and i certainly don't see any threatening behaviour whatsoever.:rolleyes:

I'm not even sure i get your point, are you suggesting that it's not habitual drug use that you consider wrong merely the social effects it causes? Or are you promoting a laissez faire attitude towards drug use where people should be free to use drugs provided it doesn't impact upon the wider society?

Aye, but some of these boys in Leith hang about street corners and benches...

[--------]

I'm not agreeing with the "shoot them all" brigade for a minute. However, there are many human beings with addiction problems. The fact is some choose to fight them or at least manage them, in a way that doesn't inflict them on society as a whole. Others (and these are the people complained about on this thread) simply choose to indulge them, and use the non-addicted to finance their source of supply.

There is always a choice.



Actually, no, there isn't "always" a choice.

There's a choice at the beginning, to start using, or not to start using.

Once you're addicted. you have no choice - not unless you look for help.

And to look for help, you have to realise you have a problem.

And one of the essential elements of addiction is that you can easily convince yourself that you have no problem.