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View Full Version : Please Clarify Who Scored The Second In Dundee's 2-0 Win Over Hearts At Dens in 86



Dashing Bob S
21-02-2011, 03:40 PM
My friend says it was Albert Kidd, but I told him, 'no, Kidd got Dundee's first after coming on as a sub with around seven minutes left - everybody knows that.'

He replied, 'yes, that was the case, but I also recall him getting the second.'

Told him it wasn't really feasible that a journeyman subsitute could score a late double to scupper Hearts League flag win at the death of the season, and I thought the second must have gone to one of the in-form Dens Park strikers of the time, whose names escape me.

So who is right, my friend or I?

(And please, if possible, provide video assistance, as there's money riding on this one.)

ancienthibby
21-02-2011, 03:46 PM
My friend says it was Albert Kidd, but I told him, 'no, Kidd got Dundee's first after coming on as a sub with around seven minutes left - everybody knows that.'

He replied, 'yes, that was the case, but I also recall him getting the second.'

Told him it wasn't really feasible that a journeyman subsitute could score a late double to scupper Hearts League flag win at the death of the season, and I thought the second must have gone to one of the in-form Dens Park strikers of the time, whose names escape

(And please, if possible, provide video assistance, as there's money riding on this one.)

Here you go, :greengrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCjEsN4E85s

bawheid
21-02-2011, 03:50 PM
This can't be right. I recall the majority of the Hearts support sporting "Champions" t-shirts and flags towards the end of the 85/86 season.

Were they meaning the Scottish Cup? I think they got to the final that year.

HibbyAndy
21-02-2011, 03:58 PM
This can't be right. I recall the majority of the Hearts support sporting "Champions" t-shirts and flags towards the end of the 85/86 season.

Were they meaning the Scottish Cup? I think they got to the final that year.

They did indeed get to the scottish cup final a week after blowing an unsaleable league title on goal difference.

Think they met Aberdeen in the final?

1875godsgift
21-02-2011, 03:59 PM
This can't be right. I recall the majority of the Hearts support sporting "Champions" t-shirts and flags towards the end of the 85/86 season.

Were they meaning the Scottish Cup? I think they got to the final that year.

Yes, damn shame losing the league like that.

Surely a nice cup victory would cheer up the massed Hearts support though?

bawheid
21-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Yes, damn shame losing the league like that.

Surely a nice cup victory would cheer up the massed Hearts support though?

Can only assume they won the final, given the special relationship they have with the competition...

1875godsgift
21-02-2011, 04:13 PM
Can only assume they won the final, given the special relationship they have with the competition...

Yes indeed, I would imagine the players would be hurting so much from losing the League title in such unfortunate circumstances that they would put in the best performances of their lifetime.
The Cup must surely have returned to Gorgie that year amidst triumphant scenes, Hearts AND Hibs fans burying their grievances to welcome the Cup to it's rightful home?

IWasThere2016
21-02-2011, 04:13 PM
Silver Jubilee this year :thumbsup: Not that I think we should be rejoicing in the misfortune of our neighbours.






Aye right - GIRFUY Jumbos :bye:

KeithTheHibby
21-02-2011, 04:13 PM
They did indeed get to the scottish cup final a week after blowing an unsaleable league title on goal difference.

Think they met Aberdeen in the final?

I think you may be right and they were on the end of a 3-0 shoeing.

Another chap named Kidd made the headlines that day by being sent off for the gorgie greys. Or have I dreamt that?

bawheid
21-02-2011, 04:27 PM
I think you may be right and they were on the end of a 3-0 shoeing.


Gosh, really?

That must have been a sore one. Throwing the league away with seven minutes to go, and then being on the end of a hammering in the Scottish Cup final just a week later.

That would have been hard to take. Perhaps a passing Jambo could fill us in on the details?

Dan Sarf
21-02-2011, 04:36 PM
It's only a Mickey Mouse Cup anyway so who cares? (And League. Obviously.)

:greengrin

ancienthibby
21-02-2011, 04:43 PM
Dashing Bob S(nookered)?:devil:

Will we ever hear from him again??:greengrin

erin go bragh
21-02-2011, 04:43 PM
They did indeed get to the scottish cup final a week after blowing an unsaleable league title on goal difference.

Think they met Aberdeen in the final?
yes but did you know that after losing the league to killie in 66 [on goal average] hearts complained that goal average was not fair, so it was changed to goal difference but had it stayed goal average they would have won the league in 86 :greengrin
:na na::na na::na na::na na::na na: ha fin ha

GordonHFC
21-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Used to live up in Bryson Road at the time.

Went down to Ryries to join in the celebrations after the cup final but to no avail as no one turned up. The no show has has remained one of the biggest mysteries in my life but now I know why :faf:

fife hfc
21-02-2011, 04:51 PM
Always remember a supporters bus message for the final in the Evening News a few days before the game. It read " the Albert Kidd bus leaving from Dundee Street" Superb.

Dashing Bob S
21-02-2011, 04:52 PM
Many thanks for clearing up that one. Was really starting to get under my skin. I hate mysteries and Im glad that this has finally, once and for all, been put to bed so that there's no further need to bring it up again.

Of course, my memory isn't what it once was, so I hope I'll be forgiven if I request somebody gives it a little jog every couple of weeks or so.

hibbybrian
21-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Always remember a supporters bus message for the final in the Evening News a few days before the game. It read " the Albert Kidd bus leaving from Dundee Street" Superb.

IIRC it was actually "the Albert Kidd bus leaving from Dundee Street at 2.0" :wink:

lapsedhibee
21-02-2011, 04:58 PM
my memory isn't what it once was

What was it before it was your memory, likes? :confused:

Cabbage East
21-02-2011, 05:03 PM
Surely there must be some pictorial evidence of that day? :dunno:

Saorsa
21-02-2011, 05:11 PM
Surely there must be some pictorial evidence of that day? :dunno::agree:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/AKidd.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/greetingjambos02.gif
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/albert1.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/greetingjambo02.gif
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/hearts13tf2.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/jambos2gs5.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/jambos3qm5.jpg

There was even a souvenir programme

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/jamie1971/kiddprogram.gif

Hibs Class
21-02-2011, 05:14 PM
Surely there must be some pictorial evidence of that day? :dunno:


I believe that Walter Kidd had a special "HMFC - Double Winners 1985-86" tattoo done across his back, and that's why he's never been seen with his t-shirt off since then.

Cabbage East
21-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Always get a laugh at the mutant with the perfectly square head greeting his eyes out.

Great stuff.

SkintHibby
21-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Be assured of one thing.

It still REALLY HURTS the merricks who are old enough to remember this. Time has not been a healer for them.:agree:

Sergey
21-02-2011, 06:42 PM
Jesus, you learn something new every day.

Anyone know what the other scores were that day?

Phil D. Rolls
21-02-2011, 06:45 PM
IIRC this wasn't the first time the Yams bottled it on the last day, I'm at a loss to provide any more information I'm afraid. Perhaps someone else could fill in? I'm sure I haven't imagined this.

Pretty Boy
21-02-2011, 06:50 PM
Jesus, you learn something new every day.

Anyone know what the other scores were that day?

I think Celtc may have got a decent result against St Mirren but i'm not totally sure. I'm sure someone can clear that one up, i'm certain it had no real influence on the title race anyway.

scoopyboy
21-02-2011, 06:51 PM
IIRC it was actually "the Albert Kidd bus leaving from Dundee Street at 2.0" :wink:

Was it not from the Dundee Arms on Dundee Street at 2.0pm.

poolman
21-02-2011, 06:51 PM
Jesus, you learn something new every day.

Anyone know what the other scores were that day?



19860503Sat 03 May 1986 PClydebank[4]0Aberdeen6208119860503Sat 03 May 1986 PDundee2Heart Of Midlothian01956719860503Sat 03 May 1986 PHibernian1Dundee United2351319860503Sat 03 May 1986 PRangers2Motherwell02163619860503Sat 03 May 1986 PSt Mirren0Celtic51783319860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Airdrieonians1Hamilton Academical2135219860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Alloa Athletic2Forfar Athletic269019860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Falkirk2East Fife2656519860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Kilmarnock3Ayr United2236919860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Montrose0Dumbarton057519860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Morton3Clyde2120819860503Sat 03 May 1986 L1Partick Thistle1Brechin City1133219860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Berwick Rangers0Arbroath443919860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Cowdenbeath1East Stirlingshire114919860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Meadowbank Thistle1Stenhousemuir025019860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Raith Rovers5Albion Rovers251019860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2St Johnstone1Queen of the South179819860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Stirling Albion3Dunfermline Athletic2236319860503Sat 03 May 1986 L2Stranraer2Queens Park1480


Sorry, bit hard to read that

Killiehibbie
21-02-2011, 06:52 PM
Jesus, you learn something new every day.

Anyone know what the other scores were that day?



Celtic won the League and became champions in one of the closest finishes in League history. On the final day of the season Hearts were leading Celtic by two points - a draw against Dundee would have been sufficient to see them win their first League title since the 1959–60 season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959%E2%80%9360_in_Scottish_football). Hearts lost 2–0 to Dundee at Dens Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dens_Park) thanks to two late goals by substitute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitute_%28football%29) Albert Kidd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Kidd), while Celtic beat St. Mirren 5–0 at Love Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Street_%28stadium%29). As a result, Celtic won the league on goal difference.
Relegation was suspended due to league reconstruction, therefore Motherwell and Clydebank retained their Premier Division status.
Much of the season was only viewed in the flesh as a dispute between television companies and the Scottish Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Football_League) resulted in no televised Scottish league football between September 1985 and March 1986.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E2%80%9386_in_Scottish_football#cite_note-6)


Champions: Celtic, not Hearts as some people seemed to think at the time.

Barney McGrew
21-02-2011, 06:52 PM
IIRC this wasn't the first time the Yams bottled it on the last day, I'm at a loss to provide any more information I'm afraid. Perhaps someone else could fill in? I'm sure I haven't imagined this.

I found this FR - maybe this is the other catastrophic crash by the Gorgie Galacticos that you're referring to?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-93_7Gz5FTQ

scoopyboy
21-02-2011, 06:56 PM
As an add on did anyone realise that Harry Potter withdrew from the match not long before the match with a serious case of poo poo panties.

Some players reckon to this day there was nout wrong with him and wont speak to the four eyed chap.

Scorrie
21-02-2011, 06:58 PM
They did indeed get to the scottish cup final a week after blowing an unsaleable league title on goal difference.

Think they met Aberdeen in the final?


You would think that such an unbelievable and dramatic football event would be talked about all the time but it seems to have slipped into the mists of time. :rolleyes:

Phil D. Rolls
21-02-2011, 07:08 PM
You would think that such an unbelievable and dramatic football event would be talked about all the time but it seems to have slipped into the mists of time. :rolleyes:

Be great if STV was to dedicate an episode of The Football Years to it. It would be compelling viewing.

Phil D. Rolls
21-02-2011, 07:10 PM
I found this FR - maybe this is the other catastrophic crash by the Gorgie Galacticos that you're referring to?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-93_7Gz5FTQ

Sorry, it's not showing up in my browser. any chance you could post another link, as I find it hard to believe that any team could blow the championship twice on goal difference, on the final day of the season at that.

Scorrie
21-02-2011, 07:10 PM
Be great if STV was to dedicate an episode of The Football Years to it. It would be compelling viewing.


Absolutely. Everyone is keen to talk down Scottish football but it does throw up its share of drama which should be celebrated...again and again...

Barney McGrew
21-02-2011, 07:12 PM
Sorry, it's not showing up in my browser. any chance you could post another link, as I find it hard to believe that any team could blow the championship twice on goal difference, on the final day of the season at that.

That's terrible. It just means I have to post it again - it must be galling for those of a pink persuasion to have to relive it. Still, it's a long time ago and just like the heady days of May '86 I'm sure they've forgiven and forgotten both of them by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-93_7Gz5FTQ

Phil D. Rolls
21-02-2011, 07:17 PM
That's terrible. It just means I have to post it again - it must be galling for those of a pink persuasion to have to relive it. Still, it's a long time ago and just like the heady days of May '86 I'm sure they've forgiven and forgotten both of them by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-93_7Gz5FTQ

Silly me, it seems they lost it in 1965 on goal average. Ironically if that system had still been in place Sir Albert's goals would have made no difference. I suppose the only thing that could make it worse for them is if they had actually suggested that the league be settled on goal difference, themselves.

Surely that would be too cruel a twist even in this most harrowing of tales?

Barney McGrew
21-02-2011, 07:24 PM
Surely that would be too cruel a twist even in this most harrowing of tales?

Indeed :agree:

I'm sure they'll get over it by blaming another team for losing to their title rivals on the final day, rather than their own team for their spectacular-never-to-be-forgotten-biggest-bottle-crash-of-all-time.

Sergey
21-02-2011, 07:31 PM
Is this whole thread a complete wind-up?

My head doesn't button-up-the-back.

sambajustice
21-02-2011, 07:56 PM
They did indeed get to the scottish cup final a week after blowing an unsaleable league title on goal difference.

Think they met Aberdeen in the final?


Nah surely not, i'm not buying that... :greengrin

WindyMiller
21-02-2011, 08:02 PM
Sorry, it's not showing up in my browser. any chance you could post another link, as I find it hard to believe that any team could blow the championship twice on goal difference, on the final day of the season at that.


I was at that game and it's comforting to know that the inept Hearts striker that day would go on to be one of my all time Hib's heroes.
:thumbsup:

weonlywon6-2
21-02-2011, 08:03 PM
Here you go, :greengrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCjEsN4E85s

brilliant stuff...............still say he looks like bobby davro !!:na na:

Bostonhibby
21-02-2011, 08:03 PM
My friend says it was Albert Kidd, but I told him, 'no, Kidd got Dundee's first after coming on as a sub with around seven minutes left - everybody knows that.'

He replied, 'yes, that was the case, but I also recall him getting the second.'

Told him it wasn't really feasible that a journeyman subsitute could score a late double to scupper Hearts League flag win at the death of the season, and I thought the second must have gone to one of the in-form Dens Park strikers of the time, whose names escape me.

So who is right, my friend or I?

(And please, if possible, provide video assistance, as there's money riding on this one.)

I have a feeling that, however well intentioned, there is a chance that both you and your friend have understandably become confused -wasn't 1986 the year when Hearts did the double?

I certainly recall seeing the T shirts celebrating the title win in what was another one of those years where the OF got their come uppance at the hands of our city rivals yet again.

I suspect that the reason you and your friend (like so many of us) have simply forgotten, with the passage of time, who might have scored the second goal in such an insignificant game is simply that the major prize had already been decided.

truehibernian
21-02-2011, 08:31 PM
As an add on did anyone realise that Harry Potter withdrew from the match not long before the match with a serious case of poo poo panties.

Some players reckon to this day there was nout wrong with him and wont speak to the four eyed chap.

What were the odds for Dundee that day scoopy......I would have been checking the Ladbrokes kiosks and shops around Dens :wink:

lapsedhibee
21-02-2011, 11:23 PM
Silly me, it seems they lost it in 1965 on goal average. Ironically if that system had still been in place Sir Albert's goals would have made no difference. I suppose the only thing that could make it worse for them is if they had actually suggested that the league be settled on goal difference, themselves.

Surely that would be too cruel a twist even in this most harrowing of tales?

I don't think it's about cruelty, or twists of fate. Being a big team, Hertz are big enough to know when they're outclassed by superior opposition. Hertz invited one of the Killie team in 65 to become their Manager; and one of the Dundee team in 86 to become their Director of Football. There's clearly no lingering sense of disappointment or bad feeling in Gorgie about these so-called bottlings.

Franck is God
21-02-2011, 11:55 PM
yes but did you know that after losing the league to killie in 66 [on goal average] hearts complained that goal average was not fair, so it was changed to goal difference but had it stayed goal average they would have won the league in 86 :greengrin
:na na::na na::na na::na na::na na: ha fin ha


I did know that and its one of my favourite all time Scottish football facts and one I bring up when I get a bit tipsy.

Phil D. Rolls
22-02-2011, 08:52 AM
Given the big team's history of bottling it on the last day, I would have thought that some older fans would have been too nervous to go to Dens. Does anyone know of a supporter who decided to do something else on the day, such as go for a haircut?

TrickyNicky
22-02-2011, 10:50 AM
:na na::na na::na na::na na::na na:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_RJRLiqiJ4&feature=related

Hiber-nation
22-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Be great if STV was to dedicate an episode of The Football Years to it. It would be compelling viewing.

Important programme on Friday 4 March (http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/aberdeen/228049-the-football-years-delving-into-six-great-years-in-scottish-football/)

Are you referring to the forthcoming episode 2 of this programme?

Removed
22-02-2011, 10:40 PM
Important programme on Friday 4 March (http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/aberdeen/228049-the-football-years-delving-into-six-great-years-in-scottish-football/)

Are you referring to the forthcoming episode 2 of this programme?

:thumbsup: One of my favorite programmes. Ranks up there with Fawlty Towers and Only Fools & Horses as one of the British comedy greats. Get the popcorn and drinks in folks and prepare to be entertained :brokenyam: :lolyam:

lapsedhibee
22-02-2011, 11:00 PM
Important programme on Friday 4 March (http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/aberdeen/228049-the-football-years-delving-into-six-great-years-in-scottish-football/)

Are you referring to the forthcoming episode 2 of this programme?

I'll be interested to watch that. I didn't know any footage existed of the season 1985-86, as there was some sort of technicians' strike on. Pretty certain there won't be any film of the Dens Park match, however. If there had been, it would have surfaced by now and I've certainly never seen Walter Kidd's two title-winning goals.

Removed
22-02-2011, 11:06 PM
I'll be interested to watch that. I didn't know any footage existed of the season 1985-86, as there was some sort of technicians' strike on. Pretty certain there won't be any film of the Dens Park match, however. If there had been, it would have surfaced by now and I've certainly never seen Walter Kidd's two title-winning goals.

Try this one (http://vodpod.com/watch/5165614-that-was-the-team-that-was-hearts-85-86) for starters :aok:

Liberal Hibby
22-02-2011, 11:47 PM
I'm still confused about that season. I swear I remember a football team released a song called the 'Marshall Chunky Chicken Champs' - but I don't remember them being fowl. I thought they were human.

Is it possible that overweight birds robbed Hearts of the title that year?

Removed
22-02-2011, 11:55 PM
I'll be interested to watch that. I didn't know any footage existed of the season 1985-86, as there was some sort of technicians' strike on. Pretty certain there won't be any film of the Dens Park match, however. If there had been, it would have surfaced by now and I've certainly never seen Walter Kidd's two title-winning goals.

And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZFezYotlVk&feature=player_embedded) for :faf:

Colquhoun girfuy ya welt :faf:

TrickyNicky
23-02-2011, 11:12 AM
And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZFezYotlVk&feature=player_embedded) for :faf:

Colquhoun girfuy ya welt :faf:

Jist showed the wife the section from 4:40 mins to 5:30mins 3 times in a row.

To my relief, she's now more confused than she was before!!

matty_f
23-02-2011, 11:29 AM
And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZFezYotlVk&feature=player_embedded) for :faf:

Colquhoun girfuy ya welt :faf:
Brilliant! Amusing from start to finish!

TrickyNicky
23-02-2011, 11:33 AM
And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZFezYotlVk&feature=player_embedded) for :faf:

Colquhoun girfuy ya welt :faf:

Jist showed the wife the section from 4:40 mins to 5:30mins 3 times in a row.

To my relief, she's now more confused than she was before!!

Groathillgrump
23-02-2011, 11:54 AM
To paraphrase one of Oscar Wilde's most famous quotes:

"To lose one title may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."

:greengrin

Www1875hfc
23-02-2011, 11:55 AM
And this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZFezYotlVk&feature=player_embedded) for :faf:

Colquhoun girfuy ya welt :faf:

Great to watch, with a great ending :wink:

Did hearts beamback the dens park debacle, shirley ther wasnt 400,000 in dens?

Removed
23-02-2011, 12:36 PM
Great to watch, with a great ending :wink:

Did hearts beamback the dens park debacle, shirley ther wasnt 400,000 in dens?

One thing that just struck me, that was 25 years ago and that Tynecastle main stand looks just like the one they have today. I thought they were getting a nice new shiny one :confused:

lapsedhibee
23-02-2011, 12:42 PM
One thing that just struck me, that was 25 years ago and that Tynecastle main stand looks just like the one they have today. I thought they were getting a nice new shiny one :confused:

Shirley it's been altered by the addition of some executive boxes two or three years ago? I'm sure I read about proposals for those, though I doubt if there'll be any photographic record.

Removed
23-02-2011, 12:45 PM
Shirley it's been altered by the addition of some executive boxes two or three years ago? I'm sure I read about proposals for those, though I doubt if there'll be any photographic record.

Don't know about that but I'm sure it was reported in the press that they had replaced a lightbulb. It was even minuted at their AGM :agree:

Killiehibbie
23-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Try this one (http://vodpod.com/watch/5165614-that-was-the-team-that-was-hearts-85-86) for starters :aok:

:thumbsup::top marks:faf::jamboak::flag:

tbfhibs
23-02-2011, 01:44 PM
For the 25th anniversary can we change from " we hate Dundee to "we love Dundee"

iwasthere1972
23-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Try this one (http://vodpod.com/watch/5165614-that-was-the-team-that-was-hearts-85-86) for starters :aok:

Marshall's Chunky Chickens Champions. :faf:

What a load of turkeys.