who was better smith or reilly?

[Wembley67]

In lawries book he says on numerous occasions that that Gordon smith is the best hibs player ever but a lot of the media quotes that he refers to say that reilly was the best forward ever in Scottish football.

Who was the best? Can they be separated?

Is there any biographies out there about Gordon smith?

[easty]

I say Scott Brown was the best...:wink::devil:

[FifeeHibee]

In lawries book he says on numerous occasions that that Gordon smith is the best hibs player ever but a lot of the media quotes that he refers to say that reilly was the best forward ever in Scottish football.

Who was the best? Can they be separated?

Is there any biographies out there about Gordon smith?

Like Nish & Duffy (I wish!) and Gordon & O'Rourke they can't be separated. They were both the very best. My nod goes to Reilly though as he's my cousin!

[Mon Dieu4]

In lawries book he says on numerous occasions that that Gordon smith is the best hibs player ever but a lot of the media quotes that he refers to say that reilly was the best forward ever in Scottish football.

Who was the best? Can they be separated?

Is there any biographies out there about Gordon smith?

I've had a chat about this with my Grandad a few times, he religiously watched the famous five, he claims that Smith is the greatest footballer he has ever seen, doesnt think anyone comes close to lacing his boots, he also saw Stanley Matthews etc in person.

When I talk to him about Sauzee, Latapy etc being my heroes he just laughs at me :faf:

As a side note to that although Reilly's goal scoring record was immense, Smiths was frightening for a winger too, strikers these days dont even get stats like that.

Also Smith winning the title with three different clubs(and none of them being the Old Firm) will never be matched:not worth

[tanfield]

I don't think you can genuinely compare the two of them as they (generally) operated in different positions.

[ancient hibee]

A lot of Smith's goals were scored in wartime football.When I first started watching,Smith was more of a provider rather than a scorer.They were both wonderful players and Reilly was one of the most determined I've ever seen given that he was a good bit smaller than most defenders particularly Rangers who were our main opposition.In any other country Smith would be revered as one of our greatest ever-who else will ever win the league with 3 different clubs-but he couldn't even get a regular game for Scotland-nothing to do with him coming from the East of course or with the SFA(those days secretary also being a Grandmaster of the Masons)wanting to make sure that Hibs players would get a boost against Rangers by keeping them out of the Scottish team.

[tanfield]

It is also well documented that Smith struggled to capture his hibs form with scotland. Maybe too many players who weren't on his wavelength??

Still a pity that the selectors never did try a hibs forward 5 and rangers back 5 back then.

[tanfield]

Aye, TOTALLY bizarre times we live in now. Did pat stanton not get something like 16 caps in total though (give or take one or two!). Surely clubfoot has not got as many??

[blackpoolhibs]

I've had a chat about this with my Grandad a few times, he religiously watched the famous five, he claims that Smith is the greatest footballer he has ever seen, doesnt think anyone comes close to lacing his boots, he also saw Stanley Matthews etc in person.

When I talk to him about Sauzee, Latapy etc being my heroes he just laughs at me :faf:

As a side note to that although Reilly's goal scoring record was immense, Smiths was frightening for a winger too, strikers these days dont even get stats like that.

Also Smith winning the title with three different clubs(and none of them being the Old Firm) will never be matched:not worth

My dads said the same practically word for word too.:agree:

[stoneyburn hibs]

just finished reillys autobiography , cracking read .

Would have been great to see the hibs in action in his era. :not worth

[Wembley67]

I reckon we will call it a draw! Sure not many British clubs could have had two of the best players their country has every produced playing for them at the same time.

[FifeeHibee]

Think on this...Broadfoot? Of Rangers has got five or six times as many caps as Pat Stanton...:wink:

Think on this

Gordon Smith (No too bad) - 18 caps
Lee McCulloch (total Puddin') - 18 caps and counting

Lawrie Reilly (average) - 38 caps
Gary Caldwell (liability) - 38 caps and counting

:confused::confused::confused:

[Wembley67]

Think on this

Gordon Smith (No too bad) - 18 caps
Lee McCulloch (total Puddin') - 18 caps and counting

Lawrie Reilly (average) - 38 caps
Gary Caldwell (liability) - 38 caps and counting

:confused::confused::confused:

That's money for you. Destroyed the game in a relatively short space of time. Players now treated like superstars and lost touch with reality.

[mim]

Smith is the best Hibs player I've ever seen.
Reilly is the second best Hibs centre forward I've seen (after Joe Baker).

Smith and Reilly were both brilliant, but the Gay Gordon, in my book, is the best Scottish player of my lifetime.

I went to Tynecastle to watch his debut for Hearts in a reserve game. There was an incredible crowd there and, as we know, Gordon helped Hearts to win the league, before doing the same for Dundee.

What a genius the man was. :agree:

[snooky]

It is also well documented that Smith struggled to capture his hibs form with scotland. Maybe too many players who weren't on his wavelength??

Still a pity that the selectors never did try a hibs forward 5 and rangers back 5 back then.

I remember my uncle once telling me that there were 4 of the 'five' in one Scotland team. Ned was the odd man out.

[jdships]

Was lucky enough to play against them four times and there is ,IMO,no way you can begin to compare them.
Smith was the complete footballer , unpredictable but with skill and flair second to none.
Reilly was the worker , led the line as a good No9 should, never gave you a minutes peace but above all was his temperement - never knew when he was beaten ,never gave up trying :thumbsup:
The complete competitor
Just as much a complete footballer as the "Gay Gordon" but in a completely different way .
It would be wrong to say one was better than the other for the reasons I have stated

As the song says "....Memories are made if this ...."

This team
Kerr
Govan
Shaw
Finnigan
Aird
Kean
Smith
Johnstone
Reilly
Turnbull
Ormond

Was the best Hibs X1 I will ever see :flag:

[Craig_in_Prague]

Grandad used to tell me about Smith when I was young, he passed away when I was 10, but 100% remember he clearly raved mainly about Smith.

When you're that age and all you know is Cowan, Evans etc, you probably don't get it :greengrin

[--------]

Didn't see Reilly play, and only saw Smith right at the end of his time - when he was playing for Dundee. (He still took Dundee to the League Championship and the semi-final of the European Cup, mind.) He had had two bad knee injuries by then, but he was still fairly awesome.

My father, who watched the Famous Five every home game from 1947 until they broke up, always said that Smith was the best natural footballer he ever saw - and he saw the Busby Babes, Matthews and Finney and the Real Madrid team of 1957-60 (think on it) - and that Reilly was the second-best centre-forward he ever saw - after Joe Baker. He rated the Five, in order, as Smith, then Reilly, then Johnstone, then Ormond and Turnbull together. But they were a forward line, a unit, all playing off and complementing one another. Bobby Johnstone, remember, provided a lot of the ammunition for Smith, Reilly, and in his second spell at the club, Baker. Dad considered Johnstone a very underestimated player - a genius.

He said that Reilly was more of an out-and-out centre-forward, while Smith could play anywhere in the forward line and be a star.

And as for linking the Famous Five with the Rangers defence - I once mentioned that very idea to my dad. His response was that the Rangers defenders of those days - in particular Woodburn and Young - were a bunch of drunken psychopathic thugs whose living quarters would have been Barlinnie Jail if they hadn't all been Masons (no change there, then!) and that Tom Younger, Jock Govan, Davie Shaw and the rest were as good as the Huns any day.

His idea was that the SFA should just have picked the Hibs team as a package and been done with it. His opinion of Woodburn was unrepeatable, actually.

Of course, my father was more than a bit biassed - he wasn't the quiet, reasonable sort of bloke I am.... :devil:

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Think on this...Broadfoot? Of Rangers has got five or six times as many caps as Pat Stanton...:wink:

Certainly true that modern day non-entities get caps thrown at them like confetti, but in this instance Pat Stanton has actually got precisely 4 x as many caps as Broadfoot.

[Jonnyboy]

That's like asking which was your favourite kid :greengrin

Smith tips the scales but wee Lawrie was a cracking goalscorer

[.Sean.]

Going by the comments from those on here who can recall seeing Smith in the flesh, is it safe to say he's one of the greatest British players ever?

[mim]

Going by the comments from those on here who can recall seeing Smith in the flesh, is it safe to say he's one of the greatest British players ever?

Very safe. :thumbsup:

[hibee4life1983]

My Pop, my mums dad, a true edinburgh man, was a hearts fan, through his dad and family, he grew up in the 20's and soon grew, after both world wars he admited to his friends he thought hibs were a breath of fresh air and well worth the admission price, he ended up getting a house in northfield and became more of a hibby, this was in the fiftys and I used to lap up his storys, he ended up going to swynie 1 wk easter road the next. He also became good friends with gordon smith, tho he always said he was a very quiet gentleman. He ended up owning and running the right wing and the wee shop next to it at northfield. Anyway, my dads side are hibs through and through, b4 anyone gets wise! My pop also bought my season ticket from ten until I was 16. because he always said ''the hibs will come good again'' ''dont miss it'' ''and u will win that cup'' anyway, again, his storys, one in particular I had him tell me over and over again a 3-3 game against smeltic at ER. he said AND ALWAYS SAID ''THE GREAT SMITH'' terrorized the tic, playing outside left then switching to anywhere he pleased he was that good, an absolute world beater who could waltz through any game at any age for any club, dundee, hertz, made them world beaters for the brief spell he had after a nasty injury in his late career at hibs (typical hibs wouldnt cough up the 100 pound or so for an op. He paid for it himself then won 2 league tittles for dundee in 2 seasons and 1in1 for hertz that speaks volumes of the great smiths ability. My pop told me a billion times that smith was the best of a magnificent side. His all time favourite player infact, he also told me that scotland were unfair to any hibs player at those times, sound familiar??
Nah, as far as im concerned il go with my late pop and say smith.

By the by, smith used to regularly get hacked out of games, it was the only way teams could stop him, but, take note young up and comers, he got up and played on, when he could.

RIP POP, ggtth

[Wembley67]

Great memories on this thread. Finally a thread worth reading :-)

[Pretty Boy]

I've had a chat about this with my Grandad a few times, he religiously watched the famous five, he claims that Smith is the greatest footballer he has ever seen, doesnt think anyone comes close to lacing his boots, he also saw Stanley Matthews etc in person.

When I talk to him about Sauzee, Latapy etc being my heroes he just laughs at me :faf:

As a side note to that although Reilly's goal scoring record was immense, Smiths was frightening for a winger too, strikers these days dont even get stats like that.

Also Smith winning the title with three different clubs(and none of them being the Old Firm) will never be matched:not worth

Pretty much what my Grandad says as well.

He worked down south for a few years and was lucky enough to be a regular at Old Trafford when the 'Holy Trinity' of Best, Law and Charlton were plying their trade. He still says that Smith was the most naturally talented footballer he had ever seen.

Even now that he's well on in years and can barely remember what day it is, one mention of Gordon Smith and he will talk for hours and hours about the mans talents and genius.

[snooky]

In the book "The Clydesiders" (I think that was the book - I read it years and tears ago) the main character talks about his father dragging him along to either Hampden, Ibrox or Parkhead to see the great Gordon Smith.
Praise for a Hibs player in a weegie book? Surely that proves he was a phenomenal player.

[harpo]

I remmember the late Alex Cameron who was the football journalist for the daily express, wrote in his daily column that he had seen all the best players who have played in Scotland over the years. Jimmy Johnston, Jim Baxter and Brian Laudrup were all great players he said, but none of them were as good as Gordon Smith!
Not bad coming from a sports hack from the west.

[Septimus]

Gordon Smith was an elegant footballer who was a sheer joy to watch. He was, however, part of a forward line who interchanged positions with ease throughout the game. I was young but I still remember the surprise I felt when I first realised (at Dens Park) that Willie Ormond was coming down the right wing with a number 11 on his back. They were all good but none of them had the elegance of Smith.

I saw Smith at his most entertaining one day at Dunfermline where he took the ball from one penalty area to the other without it touching the ground.

There was a general feeling at these times that he never replicated his Hibs skill when he played for Scotland and that I believe limitted his appearances for Scotland. I was never aware of an East/West bias in these days. There was much more competition between teams because, financially, they were closer than they are now. The cream now sinks to the foot but in these days it was evenly distributed. In these days a player could be capped from teams like Clyde or Partick Thistle.

Lastly, I saw Matthews and Finney playing for England. Finney impressed me more than Matthews but I prefer to think with a nod to my natural Hibs bias that Smith was better than either of them.

[heretoday]

Smith.

[Green_one]

One way of telling might be this

You could well debate that Joe Baker was Hibs greatest ever striker

I doubt anyone could give you an arguement about Smith being the best winger

The fact he got sucess with 3 different clubs is unique and a firm stat. Anyone I have spoken to from that time adored Smith. Sometimes seen as a bit soft he was without doubt very talented. 4 goals against Hearts on your debute!!!

The Scotland thing has been going on forever. I hate the SFA and the Glasgow mafia. Lawrie is still a Hibs great though (firm avoidance of Legend:devil:)

[Sandy]

My father used to regale me with stories of the famous five, but the one he always went on about was Smith, he swore he was the best player he had ever seen. He had seen Puskas and Pele as well, and still insisted that Smith was the best.

[hibsbollah]

He famously ... Now LISTEN to this .. Ran half the length of the pitch playing keepy uppy with his HEAD only ... And then headed it past the post!
Smith would have excited me more than Reilly:agree:[/QUOTE]

So thats where Konte got the idea...

[WindyMiller]

A lovely piece about the great man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/gordon-smith-550253.html


:boo hoo:

[Dan Sarf]

Oh Smith, definitely. Or Reilly.

My first game was when my Dad (a Dubliner but with no real interest in football) took me to see the Famous Four (Bobby had gone) beat Falkirk 6-1. We sat up in the posh seats in the old wooden stand, I still remember the clouds of cigarette smoke.

But, as soon as I could go with some pals, we always stood at the corner at the Dunbar End for the first half, assuming we won the toss, (to watch wee Willie thunder up and down) then, passing the opposition fans en route, went and stood at the corner at the bottom of the slope to watch Gordon work his magic. I remember he always beat his man a different way until they were either reduced to a gibbering wreck or tried to break his leg. Or both.

By the way, if anyone finds the green and white wool scarf that my Auntie knitted for me with a player's name on each panel - she miss-spelled Lawrie as "Laurie" - please return it. Never forgave my mother for throwing it out. And all my old programmes (admittedly I'd left home for about thirty years before she did it!)

[WindyMiller]

Oh Smith, definitely. Or Reilly.

My first game was when my Dad (a Dubliner but with no real interest in football) took me to see the Famous Four (Bobby had gone) beat Falkirk 6-1. We sat up in the posh seats in the old wooden stand, I still remember the clouds of cigarette smoke.

But, as soon as I could go with some pals, we always stood at the corner at the Dunbar End for the first half, assuming we won the toss, (to watch wee Willie thunder up and down) then, passing the opposition fans en route, went and stood at the corner at the bottom of the slope to watch Gordon work his magic. I remember he always beat his man a different way until they were either reduced to a gibbering wreck or tried to break his leg. Or both.

By the way, if anyone finds the green and white wool scarf that my Auntie knitted for me with a player's name on each panel - she miss-spelled Lawrie as "Laurie" - please return it. Never forgave my mother for throwing it out. And all my old programmes (admittedly I'd left home for about thirty years before she did it!)

It was my Grandad that took me, the 5 were gone but The Baker Boy was playing.

[Dan Sarf]

It was my Grandad that took me, the 5 were gone but The Baker Boy was playing.

I watched Lawrie's last few games feeling disloyal and thrilled at the same time when it was clear Joe was about to replace him.

What a player young Joe was! And then, when wee Bobby came back it was... the only word is awesome!

Bobby was so tubby by then he could barely make it out of the centre circle. He didn't need to. He could look up and then drop the ball on young Joe's toe when Joe was racing towards the opposition's goal at 90 mph. Wham. It was in the net. The magician and the apprentice...

Apologies for rambling on. I must be getting old.

[erin go bragh]

i have worked in hundreds[maybe even thousands]of old hibees houses in and around edinburgh,and to a man they all say smith was the greatest player they have ever seen .
:hibees both legends

[.Sean.]

A lovely piece about the great man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/gordon-smith-550253.html


:boo hoo:
'His reward was a testimonial, which saw 76,000 people turn out at Easter Road to pay homage to Smith as Hibernian defeated Manchester United 7-3.'



76,000 at a testimonial. Says it all really.

[blackpoolhibs]

'His reward was a testimonial, which saw 76,000 people turn out at Easter Road to pay homage to Smith as Hibernian defeated Manchester United 7-3.'



76,000 at a testimonial. Says it all really.

Apart from it not being true, yes it does. :wink:

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Apart from it not being true, yes it does. :wink:
:agree:

Will have to check my books and see if I can find the true attendance.

[erin go bragh]

A lovely piece about the great man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/gordon-smith-550253.html


:boo hoo:
:top marks total legend

[WindyMiller]

:agree:

Will have to check my books and see if I can find the true attendance.

Found this....

http://www.fatsandbald.freeuk.com/HallOfFame/FamousFive/GSmith.htm

:dunno:

[hibsbollah]

:top marks total legend

Define 'legend' please.

[Purple & Green]

'His reward was a testimonial, which saw 76,000 people turn out at Easter Road to pay homage to Smith as Hibernian defeated Manchester United 7-3.'



76,000 at a testimonial. Says it all really.

The herald the day after reported the attendance as 30,000.

[.Sean.]

The herald the day after reported the attendance as 30,000.Apologies, they must have got the attendances for the testimonials of Gordon Smith and Gary Mackay muddled up.

[Franck Stanton]

It is also well documented that Smith struggled to capture his hibs form with scotland. Maybe too many players who weren't on his wavelength??

Still a pity that the selectors never did try a hibs forward 5 and rangers back 5 back then.

The famous five were selected to play together for Scotland on one occassion and the team was announced the day before game and they were all due to play, howeverWillie Ormond fell ill overnight and had to pull out of the game.

[blackpoolhibs]

Apologies, they must have got the attendances for the testimonials of Gordon Smith and Gary Mackay muddled up.

Mackay got 76,000?:wink:

[ancient hibee]

The famous five were selected to play together for Scotland on one occassion and the team was announced the day before game and they were all due to play, howeverWillie Ormond fell ill overnight and had to pull out of the game.

Don't think so.Maybe for the Scottish League?

[ancient hibee]

Mackay got 76,000?:wink:

Less than 20% of their fans.

[--------]

'His reward was a testimonial, which saw 76,000 people turn out at Easter Road to pay homage to Smith as Hibernian defeated Manchester United 7-3.'



76,000 at a testimonial. Says it all really.



76,000 in the old Easter Road?

Shurely shome mishtake there...

I've been in a crowd of 55,000 in ER, and trust me, there's no way we could have got another 21,000 into the ground.

Not unless they were all standing on the pitch.

[ancient hibee]

Around 10000 at Reilly's testimonial.At least he got a full house at the Usher Hall.

[blackpoolhibs]

76,000 in the old Easter Road?

Shurely shome mishtake there...

I've been in a crowd of 55,000 in ER, and trust me, there's no way we could have got another 21,000 into the ground.

Not unless they were all standing on the pitch.

:agree: my biggest was 49,000 a midweek game against the huns. Where you put the other 6,000 i do not know? The 65,000 that was there for the biggest attendance ever at an Edinburgh football ground, must have been standing on each others shoulders. :greengrin

[iwasthere1972]

:agree: my biggest was 49,000 a midweek game against the huns. Where you put the other 6,000 i do not know? The 65,000 that was there for the biggest attendance ever at an Edinburgh football ground, must have been standing on each others shoulders. :greengrin

Was that the Scottish Cup replay in 1973 when I couldn't get in. Expected just to turn up and get in no bother and was gutted when told it was full. Those were the days.

[hibbybrian]

Was that the Scottish Cup replay in 1973 when I couldn't get in. Expected just to turn up and get in no bother and was gutted when told it was full. Those were the days.

:agree: 28th February 1973 attendance 49,007 - unfortunately a 2-1 defeat with Arthur getting Hibs goal

[Bad Martini]

It would appear our collective Grandad's all said the same thing - mine, no different. Gordon Smith was in fact the best player he had ever seen, Hibs or otherwise and that never changed in 60+ years of following the Hibs.

HE did make fond mention of O'Rourke too...and a few others.

But NONE, were held in as high esteem as Gordon Smith. Alas, they cannot all be wrong.

The biggest travesty with Gordon Smith is that there is no lasting momento to him given his achievements and particularly that of three titles and never having played for either side of the old firm. An achievement as noted, which is highly unlikely to ever be equalled again.

From what I hear and (albeit limited) football I've seen, the man was a genius.

ENDOF

[Wembley67]

Quality replies folks :thumbsup:

But....is there a biography that anyone can recommend?

[IWasThere2016]

Apologies, they must have got the attendances for the testimonials of Gordon Smith and Gary Mackay muddled up.

Sat in the Upper West with some Hibbys on Saturday - was shaking his heid at the Deeks' pen :greengrin

[--------]

It would appear our collective Grandad's all said the same thing - mine, no different. Gordon Smith was in fact the best player he had ever seen, Hibs or otherwise and that never changed in 60+ years of following the Hibs.

HE did make fond mention of O'Rourke too...and a few others.

But NONE, were held in as high esteem as Gordon Smith. Alas, they cannot all be wrong.

The biggest travesty with Gordon Smith is that there is no lasting momento to him given his achievements and particularly that of three titles and never having played for either side of the old firm. An achievement as noted, which is highly unlikely to ever be equalled again.

From what I hear and (albeit limited) football I've seen, the man was a genius.

ENDOF


There are a couple of glimpses of him in various clips on YouTube, BM. Other than that not a lot. By the end of his career (at Dens) he wasn't as quick or as mobile as in his heyday (surprise, surprise) but he had the guile and cunning of a genius - a master of the 'you don't have to go yourself if you can make the ball do all the work' school of football. A bit like Alex Scott when he came to us at the end of HIS career, only much, much better.

I was a kid at the time and couldn't judge, but my dad's opinion was that Gordon had everything to do with making Alan Gilzean the player he was - and anyone who saw HIM playing for Spurs in the 1960's knows what a compliment THAT was.

[.Sean.]

Sat in the Upper West with some Hibbys on Saturday - was shaking his heid at the Deeks' penHe probably attends quite a few Hibs games, I know that he's the agent of a few of the younger guys so I reckon he's probably agent for a few of the 'older' ones?