Dundee

[Hibs Class]

Dundee's creditors have accepted 6p in the pound.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/9390813.stm

If I read that correctly then Dundee racked up debt of £2.3m and only end up repaying c.£138k. That cannot be right - a 25 point penalty probably still leaves them in Div 1 next year. They should have been forced down a league or two - it may still happen depending on how closely the SFL choose to look at it.

[Exiled Hibby]

Dundee's creditors have accepted 6p in the pound.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/9390813.stm

If I read that correctly then Dundee racked up debt of £2.3m and only end up repaying c.£138k. That cannot be right - a 25 point penalty probably still leaves them in Div 1 next year. They should have been forced down a league or two - it may still happen depending on how closely the SFL choose to look at it.

while I agree with your sentiments, cannot see any further punishment coming their way from the league. The punishment has been set, appealed, appeal rejected, appealed again and appeal rejected again. No way can they make the punishment harsher now just coz Dundee proved capable of winning a lot of games even with the reduced squad.
SFL's mistake was not simply demoting them 2 divisions as they had done with Livi.

[CB_NO3]

The whole administration thing is a farce. Hypothetically what could stop Hearts going into Administration now, getting a 25 points deduction which means they will be safe and paying back 5 million in debt instead of 30 million. I think a new rule has to come into place. If I was Livi, I would be going crazy.

[Exiled Hibby]

The whole administration thing is a farce. Hypothetically what could stop Hearts going into Administration now, getting a 25 points deduction which means they will be safe and paying back 5 million in debt instead of 30 million. I think a new rule has to come into place. If I was Livi, I would be going crazy.

the paying back less only works if the creditors agree to accept the lesser payments, so, in h****s case, given that their main creditor is the bank of toytown (or whatever) who they claim are also the owners, that debt could be written off at any time - but vlads not that mad

[MacBean]

I just dont get why clubs should be punished by being demoted / deducted points. Without the 25 point deduction Dundee would be sitting top of division 1 looking likely to join the SPL next season, allowing them to payback their creditors and not making other small businesses suffer.

I agree in punishing these teams however i think making it harder for them to have success is not the answer. Perhaps chuck them out the cup competitions or a transfer embargo.

[Exiled Hibby]

I just dont get why clubs should be punished by being demoted / deducted points. Without the 25 point deduction Dundee would be sitting top of division 1 looking likely to join the SPL next season, allowing them to payback their creditors and not making other small businesses suffer.

I agree in punishing these teams however i think making it harder for them to have success is not the answer. Perhaps chuck them out the cup competitions or a transfer embargo.

very simple - its business and its the law. you either pay back what you owe or suffer the consequences. In the scenario you set out what would happen if they were top but blew promotion, as indeed happened last year - should the creditors keep giving them another year?....then another ...etc etc

[Sylar]

I just dont get why clubs should be punished by being demoted / deducted points. Without the 25 point deduction Dundee would be sitting top of division 1 looking likely to join the SPL next season, allowing them to payback their creditors and not making other small businesses suffer.

I agree in punishing these teams however i think making it harder for them to have success is not the answer. Perhaps chuck them out the cup competitions or a transfer embargo.

Sod that - they should have punted right into the third division! How is it fair on your opposition if you rack up huge amounts of debt that you can't service, putting players salaries, supportive businesses and sponsors into temporary financial disarray whilst you gamble on getting to the big time? Without the players they couldn't afford, Dundee wouldn't be at the top of the division before their penalty.

Clubs need to live within their means and Dundee haven't, ergo, they should be hammered. 25 points wasn't enough, as they look likely to escape relegation and remain in division 1 next season. The SFL set a precedent with both Gretna and Livingston getting punted into the third division and the SFL bottled doing the same to a bigger, more established club in Dundee. That probably sounds like I have something against Dundee, but my real bugbear is the lack of clear cut rules on insolvency for the SFL clubs, whose fate then lies at the door of the other SFL chairmen. Consistency via rules is needed!

The SFL have said that they'll revisit the issue in March with a view to further punishment, but they'll bottle that too.

[MacBean]

Sod that - they should have punted right into the third division! How is it fair on your opposition if you rack up huge amounts of debt that you can't service, putting players salaries, supportive businesses and sponsors into temporary financial disarray whilst you gamble on getting to the big time? Without the players they couldn't afford, Dundee wouldn't be at the top of the division before their penalty.

Clubs need to live within their means and Dundee haven't, ergo, they should be hammered. 25 points wasn't enough, as they look likely to escape relegation and remain in division 1 next season. The SFL set a precedent with both Gretna and Livingston getting punted into the third division and the SFL bottled doing the same to a bigger, more established club in Dundee. That probably sounds like I have something against Dundee, but my real bugbear is the lack of clear cut rules on insolvency for the SFL clubs, whose fate then lies at the door of the other SFL chairmen. Consistency via rules is needed!

The SFL have said that they'll revisit the issue in March with a view to further punishment, but they'll bottle that too.


very simple - its business and its the law. you either pay back what you owe or suffer the consequences. In the scenario you set out what would happen if they were top but blew promotion, as indeed happened last year - should the creditors keep giving them another year?....then another ...etc etc

fair points. :aok:

[ancienthibby]

The responsibility here clearly rests with the Board of Directors alone.

Maybe this should silence all the Hibs Board critics!!:greengrin

(posted that before The Falcon or Andy 74 got wind of it!!):devil:

[Pretty Boy]

The way i look at it is that it is cheating plain and simple.

Spending money you don't have to acheive success at the expense of other clubs who are trying to balance the books whilst still being competitive on the park.

This isn't the 1st time Dundee have been guilty of this. I have a certain degree of sympathy for the fans although i do have 2 Dundee supporting mates who are always bleating on about how they are being picked on. Theyaren't being picked on they tried to live outwith their means, they didn't acheive the success they hoped for this season, a rich businessman pulled out and they were left with an unsustainable debt, the people i feel really sorry or are the small businesses who are losing out on vast sums of cash here.

I just can't wait for the day it happens to a really big club or 2, then football might get a sense of perspective back.

[truehibernian]

To be fair Dundee are still not out of the mirky woods.

They still have to find the money to pay back the creditors, regardless of how much in the pound. They also now have to cut their cloth accordingly having been twice bitten. Assuming they survive this season, they will still need to get rid of top earners like Harkins etc and then scrabble about the same kind of market as their competitors, or the lower Scottish divisions.

Good fanbase for a Division 1 club, however they simply don't have the finance these days to get back to where they once were. They will continue to struggle and toil IMHO.

Was the punishment correct.....I am torn between football sentimentality, not wanting to see a great Scottish club disappear, and the harsh truth that their actions have seen people at the club and in the community lose jobs, money and livelihood.......difficult one. Just goes to show how well run a club we are at the end of the day.

[ancienthibby]

The way i look at it is that it is cheating plain and simple.

Welcome to the real world.

Spending money you don't have to acheive success at the expense of other clubs who are trying to balance the books whilst still being competitive on the park.

Is what many companies (other than footy) do anyway!!

This isn't the 1st time Dundee have been guilty of this. I have a certain degree of sympathy for the fans although i do have 2 Dundee supporting mates who are always bleating on about how they are being picked on. Theyaren't being picked on they tried to live outwith their means, they didn't acheive the success they hoped for this season, a rich businessman pulled out and they were left with an unsustainable debt, the people i feel really sorry or are the small businesses who are losing out on vast sums of cash here.

Is always the case - capitalism rules!!:aok:

I just can't wait for the day it happens to a really big club or 2, then football might get a sense of perspective back.

Yams, maybe??

[Kaiser1962]

While "administration" is designed to protect a company from its creditors for a short term period while its cash flow is restricted it is increasingly being used (by football clubs in particular) as a means of dumping debt and shafting other businesses. It is tool that is, quite legally, regularly used by the reckless, ****less and clueless to hump their fellow man up the arse while walking away laughing with little or no consequences.

A firm that is owed £600 byDundee FC for services/goods provided honestly and in good faith will now recieve reimbursement of £36.

Why did creditors vote for this?

They have little choice as its made crystal clear to them that its £36 now or, more likely £3.60 in two years time. And Dundee continue on moaning about their 25 point penalty.

It is cheating, of opponents, suppliers and taxpayers, as well as abusing the spirit of the Law, which was drawn up to protect business's at a time when they are vulnerable, and is being exploited for selfish gain.

Sadly while football does not punish such profligacy, or reward responsible, prudent and honest management then the practice will continue unabated.

[Kaiser1962]

The swear filter dosent like the word ****less which is a perfectly legitimate word? Bizarre. :confused:

Thats f-e-c-k-l-e-s-s....cos that didnt get through either. !!

[ancient hibee]

Who are their biggest creditors?You and me guys,you and me.

[ancienthibby]

While "administration" is designed to protect a company from its creditors for a short term period while its cash flow is restricted it is increasingly being used (by football clubs in particular) as a means of dumping debt and shafting other businesses. It is tool that is, quite legally, regularly used by the reckless, ****less and clueless to hump their fellow man up the arse while walking away laughing with little or no consequences.

A firm that is owed £600 byDundee FC for services/goods provided honestly and in good faith will now recieve reimbursement of £36.

Why did creditors vote for this?

They have little choice as its made crystal clear to them that its £36 now or, more likely £3.60 in two years time. And Dundee continue on moaning about their 25 point penalty.

It is cheating, of opponents, suppliers and taxpayers, as well as abusing the spirit of the Law, which was drawn up to protect business's at a time when they are vulnerable, and is being exploited for selfish gain.

Sadly while football does not punish such profligacy, or reward responsible, prudent and honest management then the practice will continue unabated.

Because if they didn't, they would not have received even the £36!!

[Kaiser1962]

Because if they didn't, they would not have received even the £36!!

I think I said that in the next line :greengrin

Still scandalous that they have to accept this though.

[Mixu62]

When can we expect to see Hibs awarded 25 points for financial prudence?

[Kaiser1962]

When can we expect to see Hibs awarded 25 points for financial prudence?

Or clubs like Hamilton or St.Mirren for that matter who along with us occupy the three bottom places.

Compare these three with the season on season figures (and debts) of Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd, Hearts or even Rangers.

[crash]

Dundee's creditors have accepted 6p in the pound.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/d/dundee/9390813.stm

If I read that correctly then Dundee racked up debt of £2.3m and only end up repaying c.£138k. That cannot be right - a 25 point penalty probably still leaves them in Div 1 next year. They should have been forced down a league or two - it may still happen depending on how closely the SFL choose to look at it.

Surely the creditors could force the sale of the ground?

[Alfred E Newman]

The whole administration racket is just legalised theft. Whether its a football club spending money like water or a dodgy building firm its a disgrace. Way down the chain of crediters there are hard working honest small time business men and women getting shafted by these hoods.

[CropleyWasGod]

Surely the creditors could force the sale of the ground?

If they did that, who would benefit?

The bank, who would probably have a charge over the ground, would get first dibs. And there would be FA left for the rest of the creditors.

[crash]

If they did that, who would benefit?

The bank, who would probably have a charge over the ground, would get first dibs. And there would be FA left for the rest of the creditors.

How come? The debt was only 2.3M. Dundee had a plan to sell off some land before to finance a new stand.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Dundee should have ben punted to the 3rd division and had all there assets taken fom them (up to the value of there debt)!
It's the 2nd time in less than 10 years that they've been in this position, there over spending season after season living well beyond there means...

If Dundee want to survive they should base there club round income from 2,500 fans and what ever sponsorship money they get...

Have no sympathy for them...i defo think they've played a blinder here, they'll be debt free again and still in Div 1, well done the SFA for setting an example tut tut

[ScottB]

While "administration" is designed to protect a company from its creditors for a short term period while its cash flow is restricted it is increasingly being used (by football clubs in particular) as a means of dumping debt and shafting other businesses. It is tool that is, quite legally, regularly used by the reckless, ****less and clueless to hump their fellow man up the arse while walking away laughing with little or no consequences.

A firm that is owed £600 byDundee FC for services/goods provided honestly and in good faith will now recieve reimbursement of £36.

Why did creditors vote for this?

They have little choice as its made crystal clear to them that its £36 now or, more likely £3.60 in two years time. And Dundee continue on moaning about their 25 point penalty.

It is cheating, of opponents, suppliers and taxpayers, as well as abusing the spirit of the Law, which was drawn up to protect business's at a time when they are vulnerable, and is being exploited for selfish gain.

Sadly while football does not punish such profligacy, or reward responsible, prudent and honest management then the practice will continue unabated.

Totally agree 100% :top marks

Clubs that willfully choose to spend themselves into oblivion, ignore their tax commitments and the like, as Dundee did, should be expelled from the league.

It may sound harsh, but what in the current set up is a punishment exactly? A few points off here and there? Dundee have done this TWICE now, which surely proves the current system is not enough of a deterrent.

The system should also reward clubs that make the effort to be responsible, the only way to do that is to punish those who cross the line and punish them hard.

[FifeeHibee]

When can we expect to see Hibs awarded 25 points for financial prudence?

A worthy suggestion, but over in Smellsville, Gorgie...

...the Jambos will think they're only £1.8million in debt! :confused:

[The Falcon]

If they did that, who would benefit?

The bank, who would probably have a charge over the ground, would get first dibs. And there would be FA left for the rest of the creditors.

Did they not do that the last time? Is it not already owned by one of the Dundee Utd, directors?

[The Falcon]

Who are their biggest creditors?You and me guys,you and me.

100% correct that man :aok:

[CropleyWasGod]

Did they not do that the last time? Is it not already owned by one of the Dundee Utd, directors?

Think you're right.

So... there's the answer as to why they couldn't sell the ground. :greengrin

[Mixu62]

A worthy suggestion, but over in Smellsville, Gorgie...

...the Jambos will think they're only £1.8million in debt! :confused:

Yes, apparently they "owe the money to themselves". So why do they charge themselves intrest?

[Jonnyboy]

The whole administration thing is a farce. Hypothetically what could stop Hearts going into Administration now, getting a 25 points deduction which means they will be safe and paying back 5 million in debt instead of 30 million. I think a new rule has to come into place. If I was Livi, I would be going crazy.

Think they'd find it difficult getting their creditors to agree

[Peevemor]

Do you think the administrator will accept only 6% of his fee? :cool2:

[Gala Foxes]

I feel sorry for the small businesses that were due money by Dundee and end up getting 6 pence in the £1

The caterers, drink suppliers etc etc are getting a low payout whilst at the same time "New Dundee 2011" or whatever they are called now are running up new debt with new suppliers

Wouldnt be so bad if it hadnt happened before

[Bostonhibby]

Travesty, does anyone think Dundee are getting quite good at this now? Wheres the money going?

[CropleyWasGod]

Travesty, does anyone think Dundee are getting quite good at this now? Wheres the money going?

Into the players' wage packets. They have spent big to get promotion, and it hasn't worked.

[CropleyWasGod]

I feel sorry for the small businesses that were due money by Dundee and end up getting 6 pence in the £1

The caterers, drink suppliers etc etc are getting a low payout whilst at the same time "New Dundee 2011" or whatever they are called now are running up new debt with new suppliers

Wouldnt be so bad if it hadnt happened before

The old suppliers may well be the new ones. No matter who they are, if the suppliers have any sense, they will not give Dundee any credit terms. If they do, and they get screwed again, then they only have themselves to blame.

[gerry70]

is also outrageous that a player on a big wedge gets priority over a small local firm. similar to portsmouth where players kept millions while the ambulance men got shafted. even the ex-managers get priority on payment, crikey this thing called capitalism has a lot to answer for......

6p in the pound - what a shafting.

[Billy Whizz]

The old suppliers may well be the new ones. No matter who they are, if the suppliers have any sense, they will not give Dundee any credit terms. If they do, and they get screwed again, then they only have themselves to blame.

When you are in adminstration, the Administrator guarantees payment. When they are under new owners, it's back to square one. Do you take a risk and supply them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sod that - they should have punted right into the third division! How is it fair on your opposition if you rack up huge amounts of debt that you can't service, putting players salaries, supportive businesses and sponsors into temporary financial disarray whilst you gamble on getting to the big time? Without the players they couldn't afford, Dundee wouldn't be at the top of the division before their penalty.

Clubs need to live within their means and Dundee haven't, ergo, they should be hammered. 25 points wasn't enough, as they look likely to escape relegation and remain in division 1 next season. The SFL set a precedent with both Gretna and Livingston getting punted into the third division and the SFL bottled doing the same to a bigger, more established club in Dundee. That probably sounds like I have something against Dundee, but my real bugbear is the lack of clear cut rules on insolvency for the SFL clubs, whose fate then lies at the door of the other SFL chairmen. Consistency via rules is needed!

The SFL have said that they'll revisit the issue in March with a view to further punishment, but they'll bottle that too.

The bottom line is that clubs that play fair lose out, their crowds and income suffer because they won't gamble on paying wages they can't afford. The likes of Raith Rovers are eternally doomed to be the poor relations if Dundee can get away with this.

The whole game is rotten to the core.

[greenlex]

is also outrageous that a player on a big wedge gets priority over a small local firm. similar to portsmouth where players kept millions while the ambulance men got shafted. even the ex-managers get priority on payment, crikey this thing called capitalism has a lot to answer for......

6p in the pound - what a shafting.

The players are employees of the club.
If the folk running the business I work for were being wreckless and nit running it properly it's hardly my fault. I have a contract as an employee and it's only right the law protects me.
Every one if the business that are settling for 6p in the pound would have if should havering a credit check in Dundee FC. They then take the chance. If they have been defaulting on payments or terms agreed with them the alarm bells should have been ringing. They have my sympathy but it's a chance they take.
HMRC should be a separate issue and should be next after the employees. Dundee are only collecting the taxes for HMRC and if they haven't handed them over it should be regarded as theft IMO.

[BryanV]

is also outrageous that a player on a big wedge gets priority over a small local firm. similar to portsmouth where players kept millions while the ambulance men got shafted. even the ex-managers get priority on payment, crikey this thing called capitalism has a lot to answer for......

6p in the pound - what a shafting.

The players are also counted as creditors with regard to their wages, I don't think many are in a financial position to easily absorb the loss. The situation in England is more unfair as Football debts are paid before all other. This is the second time that Dundee have done this, imagine a shop opening again after twice becoming bankrupt. Shysters in other businesses at least change the name.

[PaulSmith]

Who and What Dundee Owed


Aable Roller Shutters Limited, Dundee. £152.75
Abbey Kings Park Hospital, Stirling. £70
ADT Fire & Security, Manchester. £3506.65
Aitken Wines, Dundee. £333.32
Angus Council, Forfar. £250
Appletree, Dundee. £75
Booker, Dundee. £1946.07
Campbell Medical Supplies, Glasgow. £1757.02
Clear Tech Water Solutions Ltd, Glasgow. £1200.82
Concept Group Ltd, West Lothian. £318.57
Constantine, Coatbridge. £2115
Costimes With Character Ltd, Heaton Mersey. £1803.63
C W Electrical, Dundee. £650.72
Celtic plc, Glasgow. £4241.28
Car & Van Rental, Haddington. £1078.66
Dundee Audi, Dundee. £793.13
DC Lighting, Dundee. £5477.63
DCM Upholstery, Dundee. £53.20
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £31,558
Dundee College, Dundee. £353.20
Dundee City Council Leisure, Dundee. £1435
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £2838.44
Davidsons Chemists, Blairgowrie. £308.44
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £1940.40
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £1385.84
EDF Energy 1 Limited, Plymouth. £2074.34
Electroguard Security Systems, Dundee. £8349.79
Elliot Group, Peterborough. £1632.38
Energie Fitness, Dundee. £20
Fernbrae Hospital, Dundee. £75.75
Fife Council, Glenrothes. £273
Fisher Tours, Dundee. £725
Fleet (Linemarkers) Ltd, Worcestershire. £634.50
Fresh Approach, By Dundee. £1446
Allison Gray, Dundee. £223.20.
Game Ready Global UK Ltd, Berkshire. £360
A. Gibson, Dundee. £944.07
Glen Travel, Glasgow. £164
Graham Environmental, Blairgowrie. £370.12
GRM Podiatry, Alyth. £180
G4S Cash Services (UK) Ltd, Sutton. £2567.37
Haven Power Ltd, Ipswich. £1679.18
Holly House Hospital, Essex. £140
Hearts FC, Edinburgh. £11,597.25
Hilton Hotels, Dundee. £114.80
Impact (Boston) Ltd, Skegness. £2871.70
Lloyds TSB Commercial Finance, Glasgow. £258.50
John Lawrence, Banchory. £913.50
Libero Consultants, Glasgow. £15,552.06
Lockshop, Dundee. £299.42
G. Mackay, Stirling. £165
Metro Motors, Dundee. £392.29
McGrigors LLP, Aberdeen. £1793.34
Murray Taylor. £9074.54
Nessco Ltd, Westhill, Aberdeenshire. £2983.01
Olympica Sports Management, France. £2800
Peco Electrics, Dundee. £376.22
PHS Group, Caerphilly. £1450.45
Proactr4, Dundee. £285
Provan Sports, Paisley. £1631.66
Quality Inns, Dundee. £1680.25
Rosshall Hospital, Glasgow. £301.82
Rough & Fraser, Dundee. £219.55
RC Stiven, Dundee. £224.17
Stuart Barton Physiotherapy, Pittenweem. £435
Scottish Water, Edinburgh. £3572.88
Scottish Gas, Edinburgh. £3376.86
Shred It, Cowdenbeath. £282
Sky, Livingston. £506.43
Sole To Soul, Dundee. £162
Staypress Ltd — John Justice, Dundee. £374.70
Stellar Football Ltd, London. £575
St Johnstone FC Ltd, Perth. £10,001.52
Scottish Ambulance, Edinburgh. £1827.48
Shell Gas Direct, London. £797.27
Ticketmaster Systems Ltd, Newcastle-Upon-Lyme. £6009.96
Tayprint Ltd, Dundee. £1925.00
Tayside Joint Police Board. £31,535.99
Thorntons Solicitors, Dundee. £16,474.49
Transaction Network Services, Sheffield. £183.30
TNT Post Scotland Ltd, Coatbridge. £1357.33
Trendell Simpson, Dundee. £6236.83
University of Dundee, Dundee. £14,003.13
Upfront Security, Glasgow. £371.58
Utility Focus, Alyth. £146.88
Wallace Family Bakers, Dundee. £306.21
The Yorkshire Clinic, Bingley. £396.60
HM Revenue & Customs, Worthing. £461,246
Sandeman Properties Ltd, Dundee. £925,000
Gordon Chisholm, Glasgow. £91,313.76
William Dodds, Glasgow. £77,899.68
Mickael Antoine-Curier, Edinburgh. £53,914
Scott Fox, Airdrie. £21,880
Charles Joseph Grant, Hamilton. £24,951.00
Brian Kerr, Motherwell. £79,908
Nzaji Kuqi, Colchester. £46,451
Colin McMenamin, Glasgow. £27,503
Paul McHale, Stirling. £26,957
Eric Paton, Glenboig. £67,102
Dominic Shimmin, Glasgow. £66,551
Currently Contracted Employees (all c/o Dundee FC, Dens Park Stadium)
Sean Higgins £17,333.33
Leigh Griffiths £73,666.66
Stephen O'Donnell £14,083.33
Kyle Benedictus. £5,416.66
Craig McKeown £17,333.33
Robert Douglas £18,416.66
Gary Irvine £15,166.66
Rhys Weston £17,333.33
Gary Harkins £88,400
Craig Forsyth £8666.66
Matthew Lockwood £19,500
Nick Riley, £13,000

Loan Accounts
R. Brannan, Inverkeithing. £245,000
C. Melville, Aberdeen. £1,022,000
J. Bennett, £200,000
R. Bodie, Dundee. £20,000

Good to see Hearts shafted for once for cash

[Bostonhibby]

The bottom line is that clubs that play fair lose out, their crowds and income suffer because they won't gamble on paying wages they can't afford. The likes of Raith Rovers are eternally doomed to be the poor relations if Dundee can get away with this.

The whole game is rotten to the core.

:agree: Its a bit of a gentlemens club where if they realy went for it on financial integrity with definite margins of debt to turnover etc just think what would happen to some of the bigger clubs if the rules were enforced and were severe, on this occasion Dundee are a moderately big club and theres quite a few others of that size or bigger who have a vested interest in not kicking them out altogether, people in glass houses.........................

[Dashing Bob S]

Who and What Dundee Owed


Aable Roller Shutters Limited, Dundee. £152.75
Abbey Kings Park Hospital, Stirling. £70
ADT Fire & Security, Manchester. £3506.65
Aitken Wines, Dundee. £333.32
Angus Council, Forfar. £250
Appletree, Dundee. £75
Booker, Dundee. £1946.07
Campbell Medical Supplies, Glasgow. £1757.02
Clear Tech Water Solutions Ltd, Glasgow. £1200.82
Concept Group Ltd, West Lothian. £318.57
Constantine, Coatbridge. £2115
Costimes With Character Ltd, Heaton Mersey. £1803.63
C W Electrical, Dundee. £650.72
Celtic plc, Glasgow. £4241.28
Car & Van Rental, Haddington. £1078.66
Dundee Audi, Dundee. £793.13
DC Lighting, Dundee. £5477.63
DCM Upholstery, Dundee. £53.20
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £31,558
Dundee College, Dundee. £353.20
Dundee City Council Leisure, Dundee. £1435
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £2838.44
Davidsons Chemists, Blairgowrie. £308.44
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £1940.40
Dundee City Council, Dundee. £1385.84
EDF Energy 1 Limited, Plymouth. £2074.34
Electroguard Security Systems, Dundee. £8349.79
Elliot Group, Peterborough. £1632.38
Energie Fitness, Dundee. £20
Fernbrae Hospital, Dundee. £75.75
Fife Council, Glenrothes. £273
Fisher Tours, Dundee. £725
Fleet (Linemarkers) Ltd, Worcestershire. £634.50
Fresh Approach, By Dundee. £1446
Allison Gray, Dundee. £223.20.
Game Ready Global UK Ltd, Berkshire. £360
A. Gibson, Dundee. £944.07
Glen Travel, Glasgow. £164
Graham Environmental, Blairgowrie. £370.12
GRM Podiatry, Alyth. £180
G4S Cash Services (UK) Ltd, Sutton. £2567.37
Haven Power Ltd, Ipswich. £1679.18
Holly House Hospital, Essex. £140
Hearts FC, Edinburgh. £11,597.25
Hilton Hotels, Dundee. £114.80
Impact (Boston) Ltd, Skegness. £2871.70
Lloyds TSB Commercial Finance, Glasgow. £258.50
John Lawrence, Banchory. £913.50
Libero Consultants, Glasgow. £15,552.06
Lockshop, Dundee. £299.42
G. Mackay, Stirling. £165
Metro Motors, Dundee. £392.29
McGrigors LLP, Aberdeen. £1793.34
Murray Taylor. £9074.54
Nessco Ltd, Westhill, Aberdeenshire. £2983.01
Olympica Sports Management, France. £2800
Peco Electrics, Dundee. £376.22
PHS Group, Caerphilly. £1450.45
Proactr4, Dundee. £285
Provan Sports, Paisley. £1631.66
Quality Inns, Dundee. £1680.25
Rosshall Hospital, Glasgow. £301.82
Rough & Fraser, Dundee. £219.55
RC Stiven, Dundee. £224.17
Stuart Barton Physiotherapy, Pittenweem. £435
Scottish Water, Edinburgh. £3572.88
Scottish Gas, Edinburgh. £3376.86
Shred It, Cowdenbeath. £282
Sky, Livingston. £506.43
Sole To Soul, Dundee. £162
Staypress Ltd — John Justice, Dundee. £374.70
Stellar Football Ltd, London. £575
St Johnstone FC Ltd, Perth. £10,001.52
Scottish Ambulance, Edinburgh. £1827.48
Shell Gas Direct, London. £797.27
Ticketmaster Systems Ltd, Newcastle-Upon-Lyme. £6009.96
Tayprint Ltd, Dundee. £1925.00
Tayside Joint Police Board. £31,535.99
Thorntons Solicitors, Dundee. £16,474.49
Transaction Network Services, Sheffield. £183.30
TNT Post Scotland Ltd, Coatbridge. £1357.33
Trendell Simpson, Dundee. £6236.83
University of Dundee, Dundee. £14,003.13
Upfront Security, Glasgow. £371.58
Utility Focus, Alyth. £146.88
Wallace Family Bakers, Dundee. £306.21
The Yorkshire Clinic, Bingley. £396.60
HM Revenue & Customs, Worthing. £461,246
Sandeman Properties Ltd, Dundee. £925,000
Gordon Chisholm, Glasgow. £91,313.76
William Dodds, Glasgow. £77,899.68
Mickael Antoine-Curier, Edinburgh. £53,914
Scott Fox, Airdrie. £21,880
Charles Joseph Grant, Hamilton. £24,951.00
Brian Kerr, Motherwell. £79,908
Nzaji Kuqi, Colchester. £46,451
Colin McMenamin, Glasgow. £27,503
Paul McHale, Stirling. £26,957
Eric Paton, Glenboig. £67,102
Dominic Shimmin, Glasgow. £66,551
Currently Contracted Employees (all c/o Dundee FC, Dens Park Stadium)
Sean Higgins £17,333.33
Leigh Griffiths £73,666.66
Stephen O'Donnell £14,083.33
Kyle Benedictus. £5,416.66
Craig McKeown £17,333.33
Robert Douglas £18,416.66
Gary Irvine £15,166.66
Rhys Weston £17,333.33
Gary Harkins £88,400
Craig Forsyth £8666.66
Matthew Lockwood £19,500
Nick Riley, £13,000


Loan Accounts
R. Brannan, Inverkeithing. £245,000
C. Melville, Aberdeen. £1,022,000
J. Bennett, £200,000
R. Bodie, Dundee. £20,000

Good to see Hearts shafted for once for cash

That debt would not be shown on the books and remain an 'unseen debt', surely?

[HibeeDave]

Did they not do that the last time? Is it not already owned by one of the Dundee Utd, directors?


Is he not one of their biggest creditors and voted for this?

I'm sure there are conditions which means the land can only be used for football.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

would be better if the creditors settled for a longer payment period. Could be that close season, they un-earth a Fletch or a Broonie or a Katy, or all three and they could be away for 5 or 6 million and the creditors are diddled cos of time and red tape. Feel sorry for the team that goes down from the SPL, cos the best team in the first division this season will still be there.

[sesoim]

Or clubs like Hamilton or St.Mirren for that matter who along with us occupy the three bottom places.

Compare these three with the season on season figures (and debts) of Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd, Hearts or even Rangers.


:agree: We have the 4th biggest turnover but because we don't spend much and continually sell more players than any other team, we have to watch some shocking performances.

The most frustrating thing for me is that Hearts are £30M in debt, and would have been over £40 million in debt if it hadn't been for this "debt for equity" nonsense. And yet, they are still spending more than us and that, coupled with the fact that they have a decent manager, means they are currently miles better than us.

So what is going to happen over the next few years? Will Hearts continue to overspend and Hibs continually undertperform because we continually make bad managerial appointments? Hearts, by rights, should be slightly better than us given they have a better support, but it is ridiculous how bad a record we have against them and how useless we are at qualifying for Europe, how useless we are IN Europe, and how useless we are in the Scottish Cup. As a result, instead of having a fanbase of around 18000-20000 like we should have, we currently have about half that.

Whatever anyone says, in terms of us fulfilling our potential, Hibs have been a failure as a football club since the mid 1970s.

[wallace21]

Dundee FC = Wreckless!!

Cannot believe they have got away with this AGAIN!!

You never want to see a Football Club go into liquidation but i would have no sympathy what so ever if Dundee FC had!

[marinello59]

:agree: We have the 4th biggest turnover but because we don't spend much and continually sell more players than any other team, we have to watch some shocking performances.

The most frustrating thing for me is that Hearts are £30M in debt, and would have been over £40 million in debt if it hadn't been for this "debt for equity" nonsense. And yet, they are still spending more than us and that, coupled with the fact that they have a decent manager, means they are currently miles better than us.

So what is going to happen over the next few years? Will Hearts continue to overspend and Hibs continually undertperform because we continually make bad managerial appointments? Hearts, by rights, should be slightly better than us given they have a better support, but it is ridiculous how bad a record we have against them and how useless we are at qualifying for Europe, how useless we are IN Europe, and how useless we are in the Scottish Cup. As a result, instead of having a fanbase of around 18000-20000 like we should have, we currently have about half that.

Whatever anyone says, in terms of us fulfilling our potential, Hibs have been a failure as a football club since the mid 1970s.

Do you actually like Hibs at all? They seem to have totally ruined your life. :greengrin

[greenginger]

Anyone know if Hertz voted to accept 6p in the £ ? :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Anyone know if Hertz voted to accept 6p in the £ ? :greengrin

Anyone know if in yamathematics 6p is more or less than 100p? :dunno:

[truehibernian]

:agree: We have the 4th biggest turnover but because we don't spend much and continually sell more players than any other team, we have to watch some shocking performances.

The most frustrating thing for me is that Hearts are £30M in debt, and would have been over £40 million in debt if it hadn't been for this "debt for equity" nonsense. And yet, they are still spending more than us and that, coupled with the fact that they have a decent manager, means they are currently miles better than us.

So what is going to happen over the next few years? Will Hearts continue to overspend and Hibs continually undertperform because we continually make bad managerial appointments? Hearts, by rights, should be slightly better than us given they have a better support, but it is ridiculous how bad a record we have against them and how useless we are at qualifying for Europe, how useless we are IN Europe, and how useless we are in the Scottish Cup. As a result, instead of having a fanbase of around 18000-20000 like we should have, we currently have about half that.

Whatever anyone says, in terms of us fulfilling our potential, Hibs have been a failure as a football club since the mid 1970s.

You have to chill, take a deep breath and be realistic mate.

Have we really been a failure in your eyes ? Since 1986 we have had to compete by a big spending Rangers (who are now seeing the perils of spending on the never never), an equally big spending Celtic, and the rivals of a similar size. We have around a fifth of their gates, and less of a fraction of their merchandising income.

We have however got a brand new stadium, far more luxurious surroundings that public parks for our players to train in thanks to investment in East Mains, we have won three cups in the time you mention, and we have remained in the SPL, remaining reasonably competitive, and qualified for Europe a few times. We also have minimal debt compared to our rivals, a cracking reputation in the UK for the way we are run off the field, and a superb reputation in youth football for the development of talent/players.

All in all......I think you are being harsh on our wee lovely club Hibernian.

Regards money - what if your Eastern European neighbour suddenly bought a Ferrari to replace his Fiat Uno ? Would that make you rush out to Glenvargill and buy one for yourself so that your car wouldn't look out of place ? Or would you make do with what you had, stay solvent, perhaps upgrade within your means and be glad that you won't have a visit from Scott & Co months later to reclaim your lovely wee Astra ?

Hibs are run excellently, so cheer up. Hearts are not that far ahead in footballing terms over the piece....this season they have been superb at times granted, but other times we have been nip and tuck......just their nips and tucks are covering a far far bigger hole believe me.

[Bostonhibby]

Anyone know if Hertz voted to accept 6p in the £ ? :greengrin

:greengrin Would be a laugh if one of the parties chasing them through the courts took steps to freeze or sieze this definite tangible asset - there can't be many they can instantly touch!

[greenginger]

Giving this a bit more thought than it deserves, how did Dundee end up owing Hertz about £11,500 . That's about 50,000 Litas don't you know !!!!!!

Have Hertz played them in a cup tie or sold them a player or something ?

[ScottB]

:agree: We have the 4th biggest turnover but because we don't spend much and continually sell more players than any other team, we have to watch some shocking performances.

The most frustrating thing for me is that Hearts are £30M in debt, and would have been over £40 million in debt if it hadn't been for this "debt for equity" nonsense. And yet, they are still spending more than us and that, coupled with the fact that they have a decent manager, means they are currently miles better than us.

So what is going to happen over the next few years? Will Hearts continue to overspend and Hibs continually undertperform because we continually make bad managerial appointments? Hearts, by rights, should be slightly better than us given they have a better support, but it is ridiculous how bad a record we have against them and how useless we are at qualifying for Europe, how useless we are IN Europe, and how useless we are in the Scottish Cup. As a result, instead of having a fanbase of around 18000-20000 like we should have, we currently have about half that.

Whatever anyone says, in terms of us fulfilling our potential, Hibs have been a failure as a football club since the mid 1970s.

Utter p*sh frankly.

We regularly spend a good £2 million more than our income before transfer fees, this season we will have lost millions. We've spent more on players than any non Old Firm club and Hearts in the last few years.

But hey, facts don't seem to get in folks way round here all too often when there's some moaning to be had.