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View Full Version : FAO: Those Who Want Inspiring Signings, Petrie Out, CC Out - Yawn



Speedway
01-02-2011, 08:24 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

The Falcon
01-02-2011, 08:34 AM
Dont even think about talking sense on here! Its not what its for!

Wembley67
01-02-2011, 08:38 AM
Nutshell. Said that numerous times yesterday albeit not in much detail....

bighairyfaeleith
01-02-2011, 08:38 AM
I'm quite pleased with our signings, a'm also pleased that calderwood looks like he is going to give the likes of booth and byrne a chance to start to come through.

I reckon we will gradually move up the table over the next couple of the months, probably still end up in the bottom six but no where near relegation.

lucky
01-02-2011, 08:41 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

Agree 100% . The attacks on the club is madness. Its time to support the team and try and save our season. Hopefully a good February and we will challenging to get into the top six.

Gatecrasher
01-02-2011, 08:48 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

:top marks:

robinp
01-02-2011, 08:48 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

My thoughts exactly. :top marks

swazzie
01-02-2011, 08:49 AM
I'd also like a list of players that would have signed for us but didn't because of the financial stumbling blocks put up by Petrie personally. I'm assuming from the abuse on here that there's quite a lot but it'd be nice to have some names and facts and maybe some detail so everyone can stick the boot in :dunno:

I've got some excellent anti-board jibes ready once this info is posted, full of frustrated vitriol

Also, from what I read, Sodje is obviously rubbish too. Just wondering what it is about his game that all the posters that have seem him particularly don't like - is it his movement off the ball, aerial prowess, lack of pace :hmmm:

I just like to have my facts straight before I go out and boo him tomorrow night

Thanks :thumbsup:

The Falcon
01-02-2011, 08:55 AM
Fernando Torrez, Andy Carroll :greengrin

Do you nee the facts before you boo? Is this a new thing :dunno:



I'd also like a list of players that would have signed for us but didn't because of the financial stumbling blocks put up by Petrie personally. I'm assuming from the abuse on here that there's quite a lot but it'd be nice to have some names and facts and maybe some detail so everyone can stick the boot in :dunno:

I've got some excellent anti-board jibes ready once this info is posted, full of frustrated vitriol

Also, from what I read, Sodje is obviously rubbish too. Just wondering what it is about his game that all the posters that have seem him particularly don't like - is it his movement off the ball, aerial prowess, lack of pace :hmmm:

I just like to have my facts straight before I go out and boo him tomorrow night

Thanks :thumbsup:

bingo70
01-02-2011, 08:56 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

:top marks

Said it last night on another thread but IMO it's a toys oot the pram job because we never got Rooney, people assuming it's down to money and ignoring the fact it would have been absolutely bonkers of him to committ to a club like hibs now and not wait to see what options he's got in the summer.

Huge amount of folk behaving lke spoilt kids last night IMO.

Springbank
01-02-2011, 08:57 AM
Zero out of ten for this post. Enjoy your yawn. It will be a long one,i fear. Sorry,but i'm not going to be joining the Lockjaw Loyal

Beefster
01-02-2011, 09:01 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

That's it in a nutshell. If Hibs wanted to inspire the 'miserable, loser fans' (who spend thousands every year following that ***** btw), they would have had to spend a little more money than normal.

I am getting fed up though of every little complaint on here being written off as coming from either folk who don't go to the games or Yams. You'd think we had nothing to grumble about. If this place wants to become a circle jerk, fine. If not, argue your case rather than slag off the lifeblood of the club, cry the usual "but who'd come to *****y wee us" or dismiss any grumbles.

Under normal circumstances, most of us are happy when the club comes out of a window in profit. These aren't normal circumstances.

I fully expect to get 'the treatment' but hey ho.

machibby
01-02-2011, 09:03 AM
Yep agree. It's well documented that the jan window is a pretty difficult oppotunity, marry that with the wages paid in Scotland and add in our league position - certainly does not make things easy for the board. Yep I think we would all agree a CH seems fairly crucial, but at least the club have done well in all other areas.
Another simple fact is we need to balance the books, we don't have any other choice and I guess Petrie and Co. under the reigns of Tom Farmer have had to balance the need to get us out of the relegation zone, with the need to safe guard the club if we were to drop.
Time now for us as supporters to support. If we can avoid relegation, and I think we have a better chance now, then hopefully CC wil have a more ideal opportunity to rebuild the team.

Speedway
01-02-2011, 09:07 AM
That's it in a nutshell. If Hibs wanted to inspire the 'miserable, loser fans' (who spend thousands every year following that ***** btw), they would have had to spend a little more money than normal.

I am getting fed up though of every little complaint on here being written off as coming from either folk who don't go to the games or Yams. You'd think we had nothing to grumble about. If this place wants to become a circle jerk, fine. If not, argue your case rather than slag off the lifeblood of the club, cry the usual "but who'd come to *****y wee us" or dismiss any grumbles.

Under normal circumstances, most of us are happy when the club comes out of a window in profit. These aren't normal circumstances.

I fully expect to get 'the treatment' but hey ho.

No-one needs to spend all that money. Keep the money, turn away. Paying money does not give carte blanche. More entitlement thinking.

They're not the lifeblood either, they're the poisoned blood.

'Every little complaint' is a repeated mantra, as often as possible, with the individuals concerned doing nothing to educate themselves by seeking a meeting with the club, studying Finances 101 or bothering to see more than one side to a story.

It's revenge of the imbecillic, that's all.

Spike Mandela
01-02-2011, 09:07 AM
Zero out of ten for this post. Enjoy your yawn. It will be a long one,i fear. Sorry,but i'm not going to be joining the Lockjaw Loyal

Exactly.Jeezo, what happened to the 'upward spiral'.

Some people seem happy to accept any old dross that turn up at ER. The old' gie the boy a chance FFS' line is trotted out, then six month later the same people are moaning about the said individuals shortcomings.

Hibs had a chance to show a statement of intent in this window that we weren't going to go down without a fight and sign at least one player who is at least in good form and sought after. Sodje? give me a break.

cabbageandribs1875
01-02-2011, 09:08 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?



bit OTT calling fellow hibs fans losers:rolleyes: i agree with the rest tho

bingo70
01-02-2011, 09:11 AM
Exactly.Jeezo, what happened to the 'upward spiral'.

Some people seem happy to accept any old dross that turn up at ER. The old' gie the boy a chance FFS' line is trotted out, then six month later the same people are moaning about the said individuals shortcomings.

Hibs had a chance to show a statement of intent in this window that we weren't going to go down without a fight and sign at least one player who is at least in good form and sought after. Sodje? give me a break.

If they were sought after why would they choose to come to a club like hibs thats in the midst of a relegation battle and might be going down?

Thats not a dig at hibs BTW, it's the facts, when your struggling it's harder to attract players, if i was a player i'd wait till the summer when i knew exactly where i'd be playing next season and if i was out of contract in the summer then i'd get to pocket a big lump sum of cash instead of it going to the selling club.

johnrebus
01-02-2011, 09:12 AM
No-one needs to spend all that money. Keep the money, turn away. Paying money does not give carte blanche. More entitlement thinking.

They're not the lifeblood either, they're the poisoned blood.

'Every little complaint' is a repeated mantra, as often as possible, with the individuals concerned doing nothing to educate themselves by seeking a meeting with the club, studying Finances 101 or bothering to see more than one side to a story.

It's revenge of the imbecillic, that's all.


Has the wife hidden your Valium again?

:rolleyes:

Tricla
01-02-2011, 09:13 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

:top marks

Spike Mandela
01-02-2011, 09:15 AM
If they were sought after why would they choose to come to a club like hibs thats in the midst of a relegation battle and might be going down?

Thats not a dig at hibs BTW, it's the facts, when your struggling it's harder to attract players, if i was a player i'd wait till the summer when i knew exactly where i'd be playing next season and if i was out of contract in the summer then i'd get to pocket a big lump sum of cash instead of it going to the selling club.

I thought this was where the training centre, the new stand, the City of Edinburgh and the fact that Hibs are a big City club on an upward spiral was supposed to pay off.

Surely your argument would suggest we would have been better to keep the money used on said facilities and invested it in to the team to improve quality of signings and league positiom.

Speedway
01-02-2011, 09:15 AM
Exactly.Jeezo, what happened to the 'upward spiral'.

Some people seem happy to accept any old dross that turn up at ER. The old' gie the boy a chance FFS' line is trotted out, then six month later the same people are moaning about the said individuals shortcomings.

Hibs had a chance to show a statement of intent in this window that we weren't going to go down without a fight and sign at least one player who is at least in good form and sought after. Sodje? give me a break.

And why would a sought after, in form player come to Hibs?

Spike Mandela
01-02-2011, 09:16 AM
And why would a sought after, in form player come to Hibs?

I refer you to answer given before:wink:

khib70
01-02-2011, 09:17 AM
That's it in a nutshell. If Hibs wanted to inspire the 'miserable, loser fans' (who spend thousands every year following that ***** btw), they would have had to spend a little more money than normal.

I am getting fed up though of every little complaint on here being written off as coming from either folk who don't go to the games or Yams. You'd think we had nothing to grumble about. If this place wants to become a circle jerk, fine. If not, argue your case rather than slag off the lifeblood of the club, cry the usual "but who'd come to *****y wee us" or dismiss any grumbles.

Under normal circumstances, most of us are happy when the club comes out of a window in profit. These aren't normal circumstances.

I fully expect to get 'the treatment' but hey ho.

:top marks Well said. The board groupies will have a go, but don't let them put you off.


No-one needs to spend all that money. Keep the money, turn away. Paying money does not give carte blanche. More entitlement thinking.

They're not the lifeblood either, they're the poisoned blood.

'Every little complaint' is a repeated mantra, as often as possible, with the individuals concerned doing nothing to educate themselves by seeking a meeting with the club, studying Finances 101 or bothering to see more than one side to a story.

It's revenge of the imbecillic, that's all.

Vitriolic, self-loathing bollox. What a surprise.

You're right and anyone who disagrees with you or (heaven forbid!) the board, is a yam or a moron. It must be great being you, up there on the high ground, keeping us simpletons on the straight and narrow.

In Rod we trust

Amen

swazzie
01-02-2011, 09:21 AM
I refer you to answer given before:wink:

And who are these players? And if you can identify them, do you know if and when the club spoke to them? If they did, do you now why they didn't come?

And Sodje? What is it about him you don't like - his style of play or his wikipedia page?

It's the easiest thing in the world to bash out an unsubstantiated frustrated rant on a fans forum. It's a bit harder to back it up with any actual facts

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 09:25 AM
:top marks Well said. The board groupies will have a go, but don't let them put you off.



And there's also the facts groupies - he'll need to stay blinkered to them as well won't he? :agree:

Gus Fring
01-02-2011, 09:26 AM
What irks me is that a section of our support think we should do what the Yams did and spend more money than we have on wages and fees. If petrie starts us down that road where does it stop? Do we spend big wages in the Jan window and then in the summer convince players to play for lot less money than the ones who signed 6th months earlier? Also clubs will have seen us "splashing the cash" before and will therefore turn us down expecting more.
These same people are writing off the new signings before they have even kicked a ball for us yet.

marinello59
01-02-2011, 09:28 AM
:top marks Well said. The board groupies will have a go, but don't let them put you off.



Vitriolic, self-loathing bollox. What a surprise.

You're right and anyone who disagrees with you or (heaven forbid!) the board, is a yam or a moron. It must be great being you, up there on the high ground, keeping us simpletons on the straight and narrow.

In Rod we trust

Amen

There's a post on another thread suggesting that anybody who was happy with last nights dealings is a sycophantic board lover who lacks basic arithmetic skills and intelligence. You can find many similar posts to that from either viewpoint. That's the trouble with polarising a debate, the loudmouth aggressors on both sides can't resist throwing out insults. Depressing to say the least.

Twa Cairpets
01-02-2011, 09:29 AM
That's it in a nutshell. If Hibs wanted to inspire the 'miserable, loser fans' (who spend thousands every year following that ***** btw), they would have had to spend a little more money than normal.

I am getting fed up though of every little complaint on here being written off as coming from either folk who don't go to the games or Yams. You'd think we had nothing to grumble about. If this place wants to become a circle jerk, fine. If not, argue your case rather than slag off the lifeblood of the club, cry the usual "but who'd come to *****y wee us" or dismiss any grumbles.

Under normal circumstances, most of us are happy when the club comes out of a window in profit. These aren't normal circumstances.

I fully expect to get 'the treatment' but hey ho.

The facts are that a combination of circumstances have conspired to put us where we are. The mess that Hughes created, intolerance of fans, lots of underperforming players on contracts that expire at the same time. To polarise it it to "Rods fault" or "Happy Clappers" does no-one nay benefit.

Personally, my attitude to being a fan has changed this year. I see no point whatsoever in, as you say, "spending thousands" just to be miserable and unhappy. Its impossible to enjoy some of the football right enough, but why would I want to compound some of the turgid fare I've witnessed with added fury and miserableness.

Idont think we're loser fans, whatever that means. I do think we have an very large "un-fan" support, for want of a better word - people who are clearly Hibbys but dont actually do anything by way of support. I moved seats from the West to thte East to get away from a group of muppets who never, ever said anything positive. A player who tried something skilful was accused of "daein too much o' that fancy stuff" whereas a long ball was equally lambasted as being "no' worthy o' a professional".

You are dismissive of a "circle jerk" mentality - maybe you're right. But how is that worse than a self-flagellating presumption of Private Fraser-esque Doom? Lifes too short, surely

Beefster
01-02-2011, 09:33 AM
No-one needs to spend all that money. Keep the money, turn away. Paying money does not give carte blanche. More entitlement thinking.

They're not the lifeblood either, they're the poisoned blood.

'Every little complaint' is a repeated mantra, as often as possible, with the individuals concerned doing nothing to educate themselves by seeking a meeting with the club, studying Finances 101 or bothering to see more than one side to a story.

It's revenge of the imbecillic, that's all.

Less and less are spending their money. If that continues, even less money will be spent and Hibs will (more than likely) become even poorer. I don't think the fans have any more a sense of entitlement to a decent team than the club have in taking us for granted.

The bit about 'poisoned blood' is tragic IMHO so I'm not even going to dignify it by debating it.

The rest doesn't apply to me so I'm going to ignore that too.

Aldo
01-02-2011, 09:39 AM
Excellent OP Speeders.

TBH it wouldnt matter who we signed there would still be folk on here saying he wasnt good enough etc.

This is a very hard window to try and get folk in. We have managed to offload some players (got a decent fee for one) and there will be more to follow in the summer. that for me is when the real work starts for CC.

I only say bits of the game on Sunday as I was working but the new guys did well IMHO. they showed more in that game then alot have done all season.

That will do for me to start with.

I am happy to wait and see what CC and DA bring in the summer and yes regardless of what happens we should stick by him.

I am not happy with the results or our position but just because you play for Hibs doesnt mean you can swan about on the park. Each and every player should give their all infact when they pull on that jersey and that whistle blows they should play like it was their last every game of football. Show the fans what it means to pull on that jersey.

I for one think Scott, Thornhill, Palsson and Akpo will do well. Towell will as well (loanee).

Give the management team a break FFS. This is going to take time...more than one window.

Keep the faith guys

GG

Beefster
01-02-2011, 09:40 AM
There's a post on another thread suggesting that anybody who was happy with last nights dealings is a sycophantic board lover who lacks basic arithmetic skills and intelligence. You can find many similar posts to that from either viewpoint. That's the trouble with polarising a debate, the loudmouth aggressors on both sides can't resist throwing out insults. Depressing to say the least.

Nah, there are always extremes. What's depressing about this place is that anyone in the middle gets both thrown at them. In the last few weeks, I'm been pretty much accused of being a Happy Clapper for defending Calderwood and Rodders record under Hughes but a D&Ger for having the temerity to say that we needed more from Hibs in January.

I may be a loudmouth agressor but no-one can accuse me of being on one extreme or the other.


The facts are that a combination of circumstances have conspired to put us where we are. The mess that Hughes created, intolerance of fans, lots of underperforming players on contracts that expire at the same time. To polarise it it to "Rods fault" or "Happy Clappers" does no-one nay benefit.

Personally, my attitude to being a fan has changed this year. I see no point whatsoever in, as you say, "spending thousands" just to be miserable and unhappy. Its impossible to enjoy some of the football right enough, but why would I want to compound some of the turgid fare I've witnessed with added fury and miserableness.

Idont think we're loser fans, whatever that means. I do think we have an very large "un-fan" support, for want of a better word - people who are clearly Hibbys but dont actually do anything by way of support. I moved seats from the West to thte East to get away from a group of muppets who never, ever said anything positive. A player who tried something skilful was accused of "daein too much o' that fancy stuff" whereas a long ball was equally lambasted as being "no' worthy o' a professional".

You are dismissive of a "circle jerk" mentality - maybe you're right. But how is that worse than a self-flagellating presumption of Private Fraser-esque Doom? Lifes too short, surely

It's not. That's the reason why I'll defend or criticise Rodders and co whenever they deserve it. I try and give reasons (although I may not be successful all the time) for the praise and criticism. I try not to resort to lazy criticism of the support though.

marinello59
01-02-2011, 09:43 AM
Nah, there are always extremes. What's depressing about this place is that anyone in the middle gets both thrown at them. In the last few weeks, I'm been pretty much accused of being a Happy Clapper for defending Calderwood and Rodders record under Hughes but a D&Ger for having the temerity to say that we needed more from Hibs in January.


You won't be the only one experiencing that. :greengrin
Maybe we are closer as a support than we think sometimes. Fingers crossed that we are, we are going to have to be united over the next few months.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

:cup: And the prize for biggest pile of condescending clap trap of the day goes to..... SPEEDWAY! (the bit in bold takes the biscuit - it really does :rolleyes:)

Just cos you choose to refuse to acknowledge any failings at the club does not mean that everybody else has to join in - I don't even like Chairman Mau :confused:

Spike Mandela
01-02-2011, 09:52 AM
And who are these players? And if you can identify them, do you know if and when the club spoke to them? If they did, do you now why they didn't come?

And Sodje? What is it about him you don't like - his style of play or his wikipedia page?

It's the easiest thing in the world to bash out an unsubstantiated frustrated rant on a fans forum. It's a bit harder to back it up with any actual facts

I don't like his lack of goal threat and positional awareness. You assume I haven't seen him play, unlike you who seems prepared to accept anything purely because you haven't seen him. You don't need to go to the North Pole to know it's ****ing freezing:devil:

As for signing better players are you seriously suggesting that Hibs couldn't have done better?

Expecting Rain
01-02-2011, 09:55 AM
Calderwood has had to shuffle the pack to find out what he had, the fact that he and Adams have brought in 5 new players suggests that he knows where most of the problems exist.
I believe that all the up and coming fixtures are winable, the balance of the team has been addressed properly, in theory of course, not having seen the latest two additions.
Adam Rooney probably wouldn`t have made a massive difference at this point in time, he is a good player but not the strong holding centre forward that we require at this point in time.
Finally Hibs fans [ not all of them to be fair] would be better pulling together, especially now in order for us to move on and let the management team, the new players and the ones left that care to get on with the job.
We have also retained the services of Riordan and Miller who haven`t gone to Rangers and Hearts, now they can also be judged properly in a different line up.

BryanV
01-02-2011, 09:56 AM
Surely it would have been better for Hibs to have done their business early in the window when the situation was less precarious. I hoped, given his experience in England, that Calderwood would have contacts that would have enabled us to bring in what we needed. We have let a lot of players go without being sure of their replacements.

Golden Bear
01-02-2011, 09:56 AM
Some of our "fans" need a reality check there's no doubt about it.

A contract is a two way thing and the way the club is fixed right now then I'm not surprised that their could be a bit hesitancy before a player will commit his future to playing for Hibs.

Compared to other SPL clubs we've done well in the transfer window and I'd say the Board & Management should be congratulated on attracting new blood to the Club.

Old habits die hard but let's hope that tomorrow is the dawn of a new era.

persevere1875
01-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I thought this was where the training centre, the new stand, the City of Edinburgh and the fact that Hibs are a big City club on an upward spiral was supposed to pay off.

Surely your argument would suggest we would have been better to keep the money used on said facilities and invested it in to the team to improve quality of signings and league positiom.


Not getting this comment at all sorry, whilst this is in no way a personal dig, here's my take on that comment.

Training Centre / New stand: How many new signings have quoted the facilities at the club be it training facilities or the infrastrucure of the club as a reason for coming ? it stands to reason that the facilities at ER are attracting players, whether you feel they are worthy signings or not, the facilities the club have invested in are attracting players.

City of Edinburgh/ Hibs a Big City club: Since when were hibs considered to be a big city club in terms of there draw on the local residents for support, you must be seriously having a laugh here, time and time again we see paying customers from our fine city either travelling through to the west coast to support one of the old firm, or sitting on there hands watching sky sports and following a club from England. Man alive, there's more Manc/liverpool/chelsea shirts worn in the footballing youth following in Edinburgh than there is Hibs shirts. Hibs havent had this mythical big following for years, and that IMO is the fundamental problem.

We can be from the capital for all we want, we can be a so called big city club (although if you look at the population, we'd struggle to be called a big city in the greater scheme of things) We can have great facilities but the hard facts are that if you only get a crowd average of say 13000/15000, you can only piss in the pot your given. Where is the funding for these big signings we keep craving ? where's the support pouring through the door paying there money to fund these great ideas, and before anyone dares to say give us something to cheer about and they will come, I remember all the way back to the League cup win at the old Hampden against Dunfermline, pay at the gate, Glasgow swamped with Hibby's, big celebration back at ER, streets lined with people, the very next week, Hibs at home, 7500 supporters. The Hibs support who crave this great idealistic Hibs simply havent put there money where there mouth is consistantly long enough to ever imagine we can compete with the big guys for top class signings

basehibby
01-02-2011, 10:03 AM
I'd also like a list of players that would have signed for us but didn't because of the financial stumbling blocks put up by Petrie personally. I'm assuming from the abuse on here that there's quite a lot but it'd be nice to have some names and facts and maybe some detail so everyone can stick the boot in :dunno:

I've got some excellent anti-board jibes ready once this info is posted, full of frustrated vitriol

Also, from what I read, Sodje is obviously rubbish too. Just wondering what it is about his game that all the posters that have seem him particularly don't like - is it his movement off the ball, aerial prowess, lack of pace :hmmm:

I just like to have my facts straight before I go out and boo him tomorrow night

Thanks :thumbsup:

Don't be stupid - of course we are not privy to that information. What we DO know though is that upwards of 1.6M has come in in transfer fees this season while less than 100K has gone out.
We also DO know that managers' targets have been refused in the past in order to save comparative pennies.
We also DO know that two leading players have been allowed to leave this window in a move which can only concluded to be for the benefit of the balance sheet.
Put it all together and many would say in response to the conclusions of many so called naysayers - "no **** sherlock".

PS - How do you conclude because someone is critical of transfer policy that they are not going to back the team on the park??? Just curious as to how you make that complex leap of logic :confused:

Spike Mandela
01-02-2011, 10:13 AM
Not getting this comment at all sorry, whilst this is in no way a personal dig, here's my take on that comment.

Training Centre / New stand: How many new signings have quoted the facilities at the club be it training facilities or the infrastrucure of the club as a reason for coming ? it stands to reason that the facilities at ER are attracting players, whether you feel they are worthy signings or not, the facilities the club have invested in are attracting players.

[

Do you think these facilities have led to us signing better players than our rivals? We always sign players, every window it happened even before we had the training centre. Has it allowed us to sign better players than before. I would suggest not.

Yes the facilities are impressive and I can see why it's mentioned in interviews but Ithink these guy's would change in a portakabin, play around dog**** in a public park and pitch up at any other team that paid a couple of hundred more a week.

As for Hibs being a big City club I just mean we play in an ermm.....big City.:wink:

basehibby
01-02-2011, 10:14 AM
What irks me is that a section of our support think we should do what the Yams did and spend more money than we have on wages and fees. If petrie starts us down that road where does it stop? Do we spend big wages in the Jan window and then in the summer convince players to play for lot less money than the ones who signed 6th months earlier? Also clubs will have seen us "splashing the cash" before and will therefore turn us down expecting more.
These same people are writing off the new signings before they have even kicked a ball for us yet.

:confused: so criticising the signing policy is the same as writting off the players???

I'll get right behind these players and give them every chance, but I'll still believe more could have been done this window to stop the rot. Whole oceans of difference.

smurf
01-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Very disappointed in the OP. A typical trying to be controversial, with an interesting twist, post i would suggest from a poster I nonetheless enjoy reading....

However, I am getting pretty sick to the back teeth reading criticisms to the point of ridicule and disrespect of our support.

hibiedude
01-02-2011, 10:18 AM
That's it in a nutshell. If Hibs wanted to inspire the 'miserable, loser fans' (who spend thousands every year following that ***** btw), they would have had to spend a little more money than normal.

I am getting fed up though of every little complaint on here being written off as coming from either folk who don't go to the games or Yams. You'd think we had nothing to grumble about. If this place wants to become a circle jerk, fine. If not, argue your case rather than slag off the lifeblood of the club, cry the usual "but who'd come to *****y wee us" or dismiss any grumbles.

Under normal circumstances, most of us are happy when the club comes out of a window in profit. These aren't normal circumstances.

I fully expect to get 'the treatment' but hey ho.

:top marks

Some posters on this site will never wake up and smell what's right in front of them....they never blame the management its all the fans fault.....so if we all go to the games and clap our hands till they bleed our furtunes will change for the better......if only things were that simple.

swazzie
01-02-2011, 10:20 AM
I don't like his lack of goal threat and positional awareness. You assume I haven't seen him play, unlike you who seems prepared to accept anything purely because you haven't seen him. You don't need to go to the North Pole to know it's ****ing freezing:devil:

As for signing better players are you seriously suggesting that Hibs couldn't have done better?

On Sodje - I wasn't assuming you hadn't seen him, hence the question, but if you have and have formed your view on him as a result, then fair enough, but I'm willing to bet the majority on here who seem to be criticising him haven't seen him play. I'm not "prepared to accept anything" but I've never heard of him (just as I'd never heard of Murphy, Sproule or Beuzelin/Murdoch, Hurtado or Konte before they came) so I don't think it's fair or reasonable to make a call on him before I have seen him play a few games. I just don't get why some posters are keen to come on here and slag him off on the basis of someone else's opinion

On signing better players, like just about everyone else, in an ideal world I'd liked to have brought in a CH and a proven SPL scorer. My point is that I have no idea how many or who Hibs have been talking to during the window nor do I know why some negotiations failed and others succeeded. I just don't buy into the theory that the board aren't aware of the disastrous consequences that relegation would bring and have somehow dragged their heels on signing players or not supported the management team in the window.

But, as I keep saying, if you've any evidence, facts, details etc that "better players" have been in discussions with Hibs and not signed purely because of the actions of the board, please share - I'm happy to be persuaded

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 10:21 AM
Don't be stupid - of course we are not privy to that information. What we DO know though is that upwards of 1.6M has come in in transfer fees this season while less than 100K has gone out.
We also DO know that managers' targets have been refused in the past in order to save comparative pennies.
We also DO know that two leading players have been allowed to leave this window in a move which can only concluded to be for the benefit of the balance sheet.
Put it all together and many would say in response to the conclusions of many so called naysayers - "no **** sherlock".

PS - How do you conclude because someone is critical of transfer policy that they are not going to back the team on the park??? Just curious as to how you make that complex leap of logic :confused:

Nevertheless the club will be lucky not to make a loss this year, which is probably more pertinent.

And yes, I know you probably have a fantastic plan that says if we spent loads of money we would be very successful and the club would be raking it in - this despite the evidence which shows that such plans are as likely to be disastrous.

I just for the life of me cannot fathom people who get angry at RP because he is not playing fast and loose with the clubs finances. Like it or not, benefiting the balance sheet IS benefiting the club.

We're in a hole and the way out of it will be by grafting not by some miracle instant cure.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 10:23 AM
There's a post on another thread suggesting that anybody who was happy with last nights dealings is a sycophantic board lover who lacks basic arithmetic skills and intelligence. You can find many similar posts to that from either viewpoint. That's the trouble with polarising a debate, the loudmouth aggressors on both sides can't resist throwing out insults. Depressing to say the least.

AHEM - would you mind refraining from misquoting me - the post which you refer to (linked below - post no 95) is very clearly in response to some eejit who likes to refer to other Hibbies as "so called fans" because they have an opinion which differs to his own - what goes around comes around and said poster got the response he desrved.
If you want to take that comment personally that's up to you - but don't go attributing it as directed to "anybody who was happy with last nights dealings" when that is so clearly NOT the case.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?203476-FAO-Petrie/page4

swazzie
01-02-2011, 10:28 AM
Don't be stupid - of course we are not privy to that information. What we DO know though is that upwards of 1.6M has come in in transfer fees this season while less than 100K has gone out.
We also DO know that managers' targets have been refused in the past in order to save comparative pennies.
We also DO know that two leading players have been allowed to leave this window in a move which can only concluded to be for the benefit of the balance sheet.
Put it all together and many would say in response to the conclusions of many so called naysayers - "no **** sherlock".

PS - How do you conclude because someone is critical of transfer policy that they are not going to back the team on the park??? Just curious as to how you make that complex leap of logic :confused:

Sorry for being stupid. It's just that some posters know the board has been at fault here with their penny pinching so I just assumed they had some kind of facts to back this up

I DO NOT know which of CC's targets were refused in order to save comparative pennies. Who were they?
I DID NOT know that Bamba and Zemmamma left only for the benefit of the balance sheet. I had thought the players/management might have had a say in it too

PS - I haven't made that conclusion

marinello59
01-02-2011, 10:30 AM
AHEM - would you mind refraining from misquoting me - the post which you refer to (linked below - post no 95) is very clearly in response to some eejit who likes to refer to other Hibbies as "so called fans" because they have an opinion which differs to his own - what goes around comes around and said poster got the response he desrved.
If you want to take that comment personally that's up to you - but don't go attributing it as directed to "anybody who was happy with last nights dealings" when that is so clearly NOT the case.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?203476-FAO-Petrie/page4

I didn't quote you. I paraphrased your post to illustrate a point. . The gist of it isn't that inaccurate is it? You have referred to a large group of fans as ''sycophantic doormats''. The other side of the argument will have equally derogatory remarks.

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 10:38 AM
I didn't quote you. I paraphrased your post to illustrate a point. . The gist of it isn't that inaccurate is it? You have referred to a large group of fans as ''sycophantic doormats''. The other side of the argument will have equally derogatory remarks.

Nope, I couldn't match that one I'm afraid - it's a stonker! :greengrin

truehibernian
01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
I think what is also crucial to remember is to look at our rival clubs and their dealings (or lack of activity in the market).

Hearts tried to get Bryson before injury, yet were scared off by the transfer fee required by Kilmarnock. The figure quoted was around £400,000 (Hearts bid).....yet they failed to go beyond that.

Dundee United - whilst I really do admire Stephen Thompson for his doggedness in holding on to Goodwillie and Conway, they are not in a good financial position and they will defintely feel the pinch very very soon. They signed an untried, Dutch youth with a sizeable sell-on clause written into the contract. So despite Houston no doubt wanting to strengthen his squad, he has been unable to.

Motherwell - same story, no real signings, despite them having a new manager ?? Well fans must be a bit angry that their new man hasn't been given much to play with and recruit, especially after losing Reynolds !

Even Celtic and Rangers are left scrambling around........basically all the SPL clubs have lost good players this window, and found it hard to get people in. That's why I think CC and Hibs have done good business, well before the window in some cases, to get in some good additions. It remains to be seen if they will be great additions, but first signs for me are encouraging.

Posters are correct, opinions will be polarised, but without sounding cheesy, we really do all need to put that aside and get behind the team, now that we know who we have and the qualities (we hope) they bring.

Caroline Hibby
01-02-2011, 10:44 AM
I've not read most of this thread but think I've worked out the gist of it. Before I say my bit I just want to say I'm a ST holder so feel entitled to my view even if it isn't shared by others.

CC has now had his first opportunity to put his mark on the team, albeit in Jan when the market isn't as easy to deal with compared to the summer. He's going down the Mowbary road, as far as I can see, bringing in young talent - with the exception of Sodje. His priority is staying up so I would imagine, if his first choice signings aren't available, that he will be keeping contracts to a minimum, allowing him time to fully assess while not committing. I'm happy with those he has released as they were not good enough, wanted away (Bamba) or not team players (Zouma). I believe CC deserves his chance and believe we must get behind him and the team. If it doesn't work, then he'll no doubt be off, but if it does ... all will be forgiven and we can look forward to next season before which he'll no doubt have a complete clear out, with some backroom staff included.

The Board know our plight and know what we can and can't afford. I don't think they penny pinch, and even if they do, that will be due to instructions from STF and not from RP.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 10:46 AM
Nevertheless the club will be lucky not to make a loss this year, which is probably more pertinent.

And yes, I know you probably have a fantastic plan that says if we spent loads of money we would be very successful and the club would be raking it in - this despite the evidence which shows that such plans are as likely to be disastrous.

I just for the life of me cannot fathom people who get angry at RP because he is not playing fast and loose with the clubs finances. Like it or not, benefiting the balance sheet IS benefiting the club.

We're in a hole and the way out of it will be by grafting not by some miracle instant cure.

The main reason the club will turn a loss this year is the pathetic form shown on the park. The surest way to remedy that is to add quality to the squad which will attract the fans back to ER - while some good players appear to have been signed, others have been allowed to leave purely to pull in a few dollars more when we clearly need all the quality on the park we can get to avoid losing MILLIONS.

So, I don't see how you can conclude that being unhappy with what has all the appearances of a penny pinching approach to the transfer window equates to a desire to see RP play "fast and loose" (aye right) with the club's finances - my main grumble is that by being over frugal he is actually taking a huge gamble with the club's future.

Aubenas
01-02-2011, 10:48 AM
We also DO know that two leading players have been allowed to leave this window in a move which can only concluded to be for the benefit of the balance sheet.

Two leading players? Bamba has made it clear he wanted to leave Hibs for over a year, he showed the ultimate disrespect to the support by returning late from the World Cup and he has walked off training sessions more than once. Perhaps all of this contributed to some performances where he cost the side points. He may be a good player, but along with others, he is responsible for where we are now. He hasn't been doing it for Hibs. Zemmamma may or may not recover from serious injury but is useless to the club in its present position. Indeed his influence on results for Hibs while he's been here has been fleeting. Yes he's a lovely footballer to watch but 'the man they love to hate', John Rankin, has contributed more in reality to HIbs than Zemmamma has.

These two had to go - and we got nearly £5ooK for them - which allowed us to bring in a number of desperately needed fit, committed and hungry players.
As has been pointed out constantly, whatever you think of Petrie, he IS capable of working out that if we just sell players for profit and don't reinvest, in the long term we will lose a huge amount of money in Div 1. We don't know what has been spent on the 6 players that have come in, or in ridding oursleves of some of the dross CC inherited, but it's not just transfer fees in and out.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 10:53 AM
I didn't quote you. I paraphrased your post to illustrate a point. . The gist of it isn't that inaccurate is it? You have referred to a large group of fans as ''sycophantic doormats''. The other side of the argument will have equally derogatory remarks.

Yes it is - go and read it again - it's clearly in response to an individual and does not refer to just anybody who is happy with the signings.

khib70
01-02-2011, 10:56 AM
I didn't quote you. I paraphrased your post to illustrate a point. . The gist of it isn't that inaccurate is it? You have referred to a large group of fans as ''sycophantic doormats''. The other side of the argument will have equally derogatory remarks.


Nope, I couldn't match that one I'm afraid - it's a stonker! :greengrin

Fine, except he didn't do anything of the sort. He stated that it wasn't necessary to be a "sycophantic doormat" in order to be a fan.

He was responding to the abusive,annoying and totally illogical claims made by some posters on various threads, that if you didn't like the transfer policy, or agree with the Board's running of the club, you were not only stupid ("imbecillic" according to Speedway), but a backsliding supporter and possibly a closet yam.

I don't see any of these people being ticked off:rolleyes:

marinello59
01-02-2011, 10:58 AM
Yes it is - go and read it again - it's clearly in response to an individual and does not refer to just anybody who is happy with the signings.

Apologies, I have read it again and it was just aimed at one person who disagrees with you.

marinello59
01-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Fine, except he didn't do anything of the sort. He stated that it wasn't necessary to be a "sycophantic doormat" in order to be a fan.

He was responding to the abusive,annoying and totally illogical claims made by some posters on various threads, that if you didn't like the transfer policy, or agree with the Board's running of the club, you were not only stupid ("imbecillic" according to Speedway), but a backsliding supporter and possibly a closet yam.

I don't see any of these people being ticked off:rolleyes:

Who is ticking anybody off? It's a personal viewpoint. The comments from both sides are equally depressing, that's the point I am trying to make. (Badly obviously.:greengrin) The whole doom and gloomer /happy clapper thing depresses the hell out of me, there is no need for things to be so polarised. Comments like imbecile, sycophant etc just add to that tendency.

khib70
01-02-2011, 11:10 AM
Who is ticking anybody off? It's a personal viewpoint. The comments from both sides are equally depressing, that's the point I am trying to make. (Badly obviously.:greengrin) The whole doom and gloomer /happy clapper thing depresses the hell out of me, there is no need for things to be so polarised. Comments like imbecile, sycophant etc just add to that tendency.

Fair enough. :agree:

Phil MaGlass
01-02-2011, 11:10 AM
I think what is also crucial to remember is to look at our rival clubs and their dealings (or lack of activity in the market).

Hearts tried to get Bryson before injury, yet were scared off by the transfer fee required by Kilmarnock. The figure quoted was around £400,000 (Hearts bid).....yet they failed to go beyond that.

Dundee United - whilst I really do admire Stephen Thompson for his doggedness in holding on to Goodwillie and Conway, they are not in a good financial position and they will defintely feel the pinch very very soon. They signed an untried, Dutch youth with a sizeable sell-on clause written into the contract. So despite Houston no doubt wanting to strengthen his squad, he has been unable to.

Motherwell - same story, no real signings, despite them having a new manager ?? Well fans must be a bit angry that their new man hasn't been given much to play with and recruit, especially after losing Reynolds !

Even Celtic and Rangers are left scrambling around........basically all the SPL clubs have lost good players this window, and found it hard to get people in. That's why I think CC and Hibs have done good business, well before the window in some cases, to get in some good additions. It remains to be seen if they will be great additions, but first signs for me are encouraging.

Posters are correct, opinions will be polarised, but without sounding cheesy, we really do all need to put that aside and get behind the team, now that we know who we have and the qualities (we hope) they bring.

my thoughts exactly, its not all doom and gloom (and thats coming from me).:shocked: people lets try and keep off the insults for fellow fans aswell, (it was my New Years resolution):greengrin.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 11:13 AM
Two leading players? Bamba has made it clear he wanted to leave Hibs for over a year, he showed the ultimate disrespect to the support by returning late from the World Cup and he has walked off training sessions more than once. Perhaps all of this contributed to some performances where he cost the side points. He may be a good player, but along with others, he is responsible for where we are now. He hasn't been doing it for Hibs. Zemmamma may or may not recover from serious injury but is useless to the club in its present position. Indeed his influence on results for Hibs while he's been here has been fleeting. Yes he's a lovely footballer to watch but 'the man they love to hate', John Rankin, has contributed more in reality to HIbs than Zemmamma has.

These two had to go - and we got nearly £5ooK for them - which allowed us to bring in a number of desperately needed fit, committed and hungry players.
As has been pointed out constantly, whatever you think of Petrie, he IS capable of working out that if we just sell players for profit and don't reinvest, in the long term we will lose a huge amount of money in Div 1. We don't know what has been spent on the 6 players that have come in, or in ridding oursleves of some of the dross CC inherited, but it's not just transfer fees in and out.

Two leading players??? emphatically YES
Like it or not Bamba was usually our most effective Centre Half
Zemama our best (only?) creative midfielder

I'm prepared to accept that Bamba had to go as he was the type to go in the huff if he didn't get his own way - but has he been adequately replaced? No.

I see Zemama as a different case altogether - he's a flair player but has never lacked an appetite for the game and was on record as saying he felt he owed the club. I find it hard to believe he would have spat the dummy if told he was staying til the end of the season to help avoid relegation. He is a player I would definately like to have seen remaining to have players like Scott play alongside.

The fact he's been allowed to go for the sake of a relatively modest fee is IMO symptomatic of a frugality which, while it has been sensible at times, is wholly inappropriate in the current situation.

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 11:15 AM
The main reason the club will turn a loss this year is the pathetic form shown on the park. The surest way to remedy that is to add quality to the squad which will attract the fans back to ER - while some good players appear to have been signed, others have been allowed to leave purely to pull in a few dollars more when we clearly need all the quality on the park we can get to avoid losing MILLIONS.

So, I don't see how you can conclude that being unhappy with what has all the appearances of a penny pinching approach to the transfer window equates to a desire to see RP play "fast and loose" (aye right) with the club's finances - my main grumble is that by being over frugal he is actually taking a huge gamble with the club's future.

Ah, just how did I guess you had a fantastic plan - and a sure fire success too, in your opinion at any rate.

The fact that he needs transfer fees to cover the wage bill tells me that he is being anything but frugal.

And yes I know the reason for the terraces being half empty and if there was an easy answer why wouldn't I shout out for it at the top of my voice? But there isn't an easy answer. I'm afraid that posts which make authoritative claims but which gloss over the details don't do it for me.

And yes, there is a possibility that we could go down, however, I'd be interested to know exactly how much more you reckon should have been spent to GUARANTEE us staying up. No ifs and buts mind!

And the possibility of relegation - what would you see as the impact of that happening? Do you agree with those that are touting the end of the club in that event?

sahib
01-02-2011, 11:21 AM
And why would a sought after, in form player come to Hibs?

Money?

I suspect Petrie is of the mind, that in all likelyhood we are going down and he is not willing to throw money at a lost cause. He maybe feels that if he keeps the wage bill down then a season in the first wiil be less expensive.

aberhibsfc
01-02-2011, 11:22 AM
I don't want Petrie out, but I do expect him to get his sleeves rolled up and concentrate fully on the playing side which is why the club exists any way. Training facility and Stands, job well done I'm sure.

I expect us to be rigourously pursuing the best talent in Scotland for a new generation of good players and saleable assets.

I fully expected us to be more committed to getting the necessary players in to sustain our SPL status, pleased with the midfield signings and goal keeper, but would have been more happy with a CB and CF. Even more so when we freed some and brought in nearly half a million. When we lose the rest in the summer are we going to be genuinely pursuing a better calibre of player. Petries doesn't inspire confidence regards this as it always seems to be the cheaper option.

I pay my money, I want the best for my club. I don't moan all the time, but don't criticise me for not being inspired. It's up to the club to generate this factor.

The mootings of some on here go beyond positive thinking belief, next you'll be wanting Bobbie Williamson and a UCI next door to ER FFS.

basehibby
01-02-2011, 11:23 AM
Who is ticking anybody off? It's a personal viewpoint. The comments from both sides are equally depressing, that's the point I am trying to make. (Badly obviously.:greengrin) The whole doom and gloomer /happy clapper thing depresses the hell out of me, there is no need for things to be so polarised. Comments like imbecile, sycophant etc just add to that tendency.

Fair play - you are right - my "sycophantic doormat" was in response to a "so called fan" so you can see how the escalation happens.

Maybe we should only use nuclear insults and so keep the peace by means of "Mutually Assured Destruction" :hmmm:

marinello59
01-02-2011, 11:28 AM
Fair play - you are right - my "sycophantic doormat" was in response to a "so called fan" so you can see how the escalation happens.

Maybe we should only use nuclear insults and so keep the peace by means of "Mutually Assured Destruction" :hmmm:
:greengrin

basehibby
01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
Ah, just how did I guess you had a fantastic plan - and a sure fire success too, in your opinion at any rate.

The fact that he needs transfer fees to cover the wage bill tells me that he is being anything but frugal.

And yes I know the reason for the terraces being half empty and if there was an easy answer why wouldn't I shout out for it at the top of my voice? But there isn't an easy answer. I'm afraid that posts which make authoritative claims but which gloss over the details don't do it for me.

And yes, there is a possibility that we could go down, however, I'd be interested to know exactly how much more you reckon should have been spent to GUARANTEE us staying up. No ifs and buts mind!

And the possibility of relegation - what would you see as the impact of that happening? Do you agree with those that are touting the end of the club in that event?


Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit ..................... The comments I made amounted to common sense IMO - if you want to achieve the dual objectives of attracting the fans back and staying in the league then a few things that could be tried are:

Not selling your best players but adding to them instead or...
If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in
In response to your daft question about how much EXACTLY we'd need to spend to GUARANTEE staying up - well I obviously cannot give you a precise answer to that question but I can venture the opinion that said sum would certainly be in multiples of £80,000 greater than ONE.

re the impact of relegation - no of course I don't agree that would be the end of hibs. What it would be is a financial disaster which would set back the progress made by the club on that very front by years. Certainly not a desireable outcome and one that I would say it's well worth comitting to short term loss to avoid.

Lago
01-02-2011, 11:47 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

Totally agree,sick & tired of some of the postings on here. People apparently believe all Hibs have to do is offer big money & players will be pushing to sign on. Reality is Hibs are a relatively small provincial club playing in a small league. They will never return to the glory days of beating Napoli etc. If we were playing in England I doubt Hibs would be anything other than League 1 maybe scrape into the championship & would the attendance at ER improve not by much I suspect.

lEXO
01-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

:top marksTo sensible by half man. No doubt you will be called a happy clapper or something like it by some spleen venting uberfan further down the thread.

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and you appear to be no exception. The comments I made amounted to common sense IMO - if you want to achieve the dual objectives of attracting the fans back and staying in the league then a few things that could be tried are:

Not selling your best players but adding to them instead or...
If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in
In response to your daft question about how much EXACTLY we'd need to spend to GUARANTEE staying up - well I obviously cannot give you a precise answer to that question but I can venture the opinion that said sum would certainly be in multiples of £80,000 greater than ONE.

re the impact of relegation - no of course I don't agree that would be the end of hibs. What it would be is a financial disaster which would set back the progress made by the club on that very front by years. Certainly not a desireable outcome and one that I would say it's well worth comitting to short term loss to avoid.

There was no sarcasm there at all - you came in making a point that I had already covered - it's not my fault guv.

"If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in"

So by your reckoning if a team languishing at the bottom of the league sells £1.5M worth of talent and then buys in £1.5M worth of talent it will no longer be languishing at the bottom of the league - it could happen I suppose.

And since you can't quote a figure that would guarantee us staying up it follows that we could still get relegated after spending these multiples but with more multiples of debt than there would have been otherwise.

It's all very well for you floating financial notions hither and thither but Rod has to live in the real world and make the proper calls.

We currently have a manager who is in the process of building a team, rather that a disparate group of individuals, something we haven't had for a while but something that will reap rewards - and while you can imagine there to be a much happier outcome it is not based on reality (not sarcasm here either btw).

Steve20
01-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Totally agree,sick & tired of some of the postings on here. People apparently believe all Hibs have to do is offer big money & players will be pushing to sign on. Reality is Hibs are a relatively small provincial club playing in a small league. They will never return to the glory days of beating Napoli etc. If we were playing in England I doubt Hibs would be anything other than League 1 maybe scrape into the championship & would the attendance at ER improve not by much I suspect.

Yeah, because people are expecting us to go out and beat the likes of Napoli.

Do you not think some of us just felt that the club could have done more to sort out the problems that we have? I was pleased with the three midfield lads we got last week, but I think more could have been done to sort out other areas of the team also.

We still only seem to have one player who can score goals on a regular basis. Sodje might do us a job, but his scoring record would suggest that he won't be a regular goalscorer. The centre half position is also very weak, as I honestly felt we needed someone to come in and partner Hanlon.

Danderhall Hibs
01-02-2011, 12:04 PM
Money?

I suspect Petrie is of the mind, that in all likelyhood we are going down and he is not willing to throw money at a lost cause. He maybe feels that if he keeps the wage bill down then a season in the first wiil be less expensive.

Aye, that'll be it. :aok:

down the slope
01-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

Here we go again , i must be a yam because i criticise the quality of the signings. well i probably have been paying to watch Hibs longer than you but if you want to call me a yam thats fine but to say we are not entitled to inspired signings is just silly. Inspiring signings will come to the club if we pay enough just think back to Sauzee etc, we need to increase the quality of our team year on year and we should never find ourselves in the situation we are in again.
The board have shat themselves bigtime and only when they realised that some of them will be oot on there jacksies if we get relegated have they done something , this is no way to run our football club and we must not forget or forgive the board for the state we are in.

billbee
01-02-2011, 12:11 PM
Excellent OP Speeders.

TBH it wouldnt matter who we signed there would still be folk on here saying he wasnt good enough etc.

This is a very hard window to try and get folk in. We have managed to offload some players (got a decent fee for one) and there will be more to follow in the summer. that for me is when the real work starts for CC.

I only say bits of the game on Sunday as I was working but the new guys did well IMHO. they showed more in that game then alot have done all season.

That will do for me to start with.

I am happy to wait and see what CC and DA bring in the summer and yes regardless of what happens we should stick by him.

I am not happy with the results or our position but just because you play for Hibs doesnt mean you can swan about on the park. Each and every player should give their all infact when they pull on that jersey and that whistle blows they should play like it was their last every game of football. Show the fans what it means to pull on that jersey.

I for one think Scott, Thornhill, Palsson and Akpo will do well. Towell will as well (loanee).

Give the management team a break FFS. This is going to take time...more than one window.

Keep the faith guys

GG

Exactly weve just to like it or lump it! I will for the moment like it and get behind the team! Mon the Hibs!

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 12:15 PM
I remember reading somewhere last year that since 2000 our overall turnover was at a loss despite all these big sales in recent years.

Where is all this cash ment to be coming from to buy these players, pay them a signing on fee and pay wages?

Ray_
01-02-2011, 12:16 PM
There was no sarcasm there at all - you came in making a point that I had already covered - it's not my fault guv.

"If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in"

So by your reckoning if a team languishing at the bottom of the league sells £1.5M worth of talent and then buys in £1.5M worth of talent it will no longer be languishing at the bottom of the league - it could happen I suppose.

And since you can't quote a figure that would guarantee us staying up it follows that we could still get relegated after spending these multiples but with more multiples of debt than there would have been otherwise.

It's all very well for you floating financial notions hither and thither but Rod has to live in the real world and make the proper calls.

We currently have a manager who is in the process of building a team, rather that a disparate group of individuals, something we haven't had for a while but something that will reap rewards - and while you can imagine there to be a much happier outcome it is not based on reality (not sarcasm here either btw).

So I'll repeat what I've said many times, the fact that for the last X amount of years, we have been left with a large number of players needing to be shifted out as dead wood & given the downward trend, would suggest that the club's transfer policy is failing, especially as the waste hasn't come cheap.

Point 2 being that as a business, the club's income has been decimated over the last five years, which also suggests that the club have got it wrong.

But what you are saying is that there was/is no other option?

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Ray, what is the clubs transfer policy?

Decimated in the last 5 years, I dont understand that. What I do understand is that 3 1/2 years ago the whole world started slipping into what could possibly be the worst recession ever seen.

Arch Stanton
01-02-2011, 12:30 PM
So I'll repeat what I've said many times, the fact that for the last X amount of years, we have been left with a large number of players needing to be shifted out as dead wood & given the downward trend, would suggest that the club's transfer policy is failing, especially as the waste hasn't come cheap.

Point 2 being that as a business, the club's income has been decimated over the last five years, which also suggests that the club have got it wrong.

But what you are saying is that there was/is no other option?

The dead wood came in as proven players for the most part and I agree it wasn't working. Mowbray got success from working with young talent and I fail to see the desperation to do something different.

As for the business being decimated, it is neither true nor is it relevant to anything that is being discussed on this thread that I can see. All I can do is trot out the old standby -

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/2010/income2.htm

And for all JH's much touted 4th in the league his poor performances in the cups cost us much needed income. And as it says, loss of Setanta cost us as well.

As regards options, there is plenty room for manoeuvre as long as our costs don't run dagerously high.

flash
01-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.

Yet another desperate fishing attempt.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 12:36 PM
Ray, what is the clubs transfer policy?

Decimated in the last 5 years, I dont understand that. What I do understand is that 3 1/2 years ago the whole world started slipping into what could possibly be the worst recession ever seen.

Well if the club hasn't a robust transfer policy, then little wonder an area of the club that's failing badly, if we have, with the amount of waste, it is clearly the wrong strategy.

I am aware of the recession, however, that is far from being the only reason that people have been driven away from spending their cash on Hibs.

lapsedhibee
01-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Where is all this cash ment to be coming from to buy these players, pay them a signing on fee and pay wages?

It's a symptom of the board's chronic lack of imagination that they threw away all that money on shiny new East Mains and the shiny new East Stand, when for a relatively minuscule sum they could have had a second-hand printing press.

Twa Cairpets
01-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Money?

I suspect Petrie is of the mind, that in all likelyhood we are going down and he is not willing to throw money at a lost cause. He maybe feels that if he keeps the wage bill down then a season in the first wiil be less expensive.

Now, I may be extrapolating a little biot, bit are you suggesting that the Cheif Exec is actually wanting the business to fail in its primary objective of being competitive by being relegated in order to redcuce expenditure. You may not like Petrie but that's nutso.

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 12:42 PM
Explain the decimated bit in a bit more detail then.

Who said we never had a transfer policy. I'd say its not the transfer policy that is the issue, more our recent managers man management skills.

John_the_angus_hibby
01-02-2011, 12:42 PM
...a few things that could be tried are:
[LIST]
Not selling your best players but adding to them instead or...

Our best players will eventually want to play at a level we will never be and be paid wages we can never pay. Champions League, EPL. We must get the best out of them for as long as we can; then maximise their value when they want away. And the best ones will. Fact.

Twa Cairpets
01-02-2011, 12:49 PM
So I'll repeat what I've said many times, the fact that for the last X amount of years, we have been left with a large number of players needing to be shifted out as dead wood & given the downward trend, would suggest that the club's transfer policy is failing, especially as the waste hasn't come cheap.

Point 2 being that as a business, the club's income has been decimated over the last five years, which also suggests that the club have got it wrong.

But what you are saying is that there was/is no other option?

"The clubs transfer policy"

The clubs transfer policy is surely to get some money in for players who no longer wish to be at the club prior to them leaving for no return at the end of a contract. It has always been thus, and the fact that we were fortunate to have a good crop of young players coming through at the same time under a good manager in Mowbray is utterly skewing peoples view of where we should/could be.

It is this that ultimately funded the stand and East Mains. Errors such as appointing Hughes have been made, but even that is only clearly in retrospect.

It woald never have been possible to hold onto Brown, Thomson, Fletch, Whittaker, O'Connor, Riordan. Lets say we needed (conservatively) to pay them an extra £15k each a week to compete with the OF. Theres an extra £90k per week, or £4,680,000 pa. Just for those six. Add 6k onto the gate for being a bit better, assume that theyre all adults and all pay £25 every week, thats an extra income of £2,850,000.

As the Amercians would doubtless say, you do the math.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 12:49 PM
The dead wood came in as proven players for the most part and I agree it wasn't working. Mowbray got success from working with young talent and I fail to see the desperation to do something different.

As for the business being decimated, it is neither true nor is it relevant to anything that is being discussed on this thread that I can see. All I can do is trot out the old standby -

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/hibs/2010/income2.htm

And for all JH's much touted 4th in the league his poor performances in the cups cost us much needed income. And as it says, loss of Setanta cost us as well.

As regards options, there is plenty room for manoeuvre as long as our costs don't run dagerously high.

We agree that young talent should have been the way we were going forward, supplemented by a couple of quality players [players Mowbray wanted & never got]. But we haven't been doing that, we have missed out on a lot of the young talent, most likely on wages & transfer fee's. IMHO this was a false economy, as it left us paying lots of cash on players who were neither hungry nor good enough & with little, if any, sell on value.

With regards to the accounts, I mentioned 2006, but we peaked at 9.8 in 2007 & 2010 as 7.1 represents a substantial fall & no doubt 2011 will be even worse.

But you and I know that with player sales included, this doesn't represent a true figure in how the club are performing, you have to look at the tangible income for that & with season ticket sales dropping, attendances dropping, merchandising & hospitality taking a big hit, those are the type of key performance indicators, any company would be judged on.

John_the_angus_hibby
01-02-2011, 12:52 PM
...a few things that could be tried are:

If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in


What people don't realise is that wage structure/package dictates the transfer fee to a great extent. For instance we sold Broony for about £4.5m. You say spend at least as much? What wage expectation will a £4.5m player have?? I have no idea what Broony was on when he joined Celtic but it Would be about £20-£30k a week? So your logic means that we need to spend the same transfer fee to replace the player? We could try but we would not get anyone! What we do (or at least our managers try, some worse than others and yes im looking at you Yogi et al) is spend a % of it on the best replacement that fits our wage structure.

Some people have not even played FM!

basehibby
01-02-2011, 12:54 PM
Totally agree,sick & tired of some of the postings on here. People apparently believe all Hibs have to do is offer big money & players will be pushing to sign on. Reality is Hibs are a relatively small provincial club playing in a small league. They will never return to the glory days of beating Napoli etc. If we were playing in England I doubt Hibs would be anything other than League 1 maybe scrape into the championship & would the attendance at ER improve not by much I suspect.

CAPITAL club :rolleyes: - provincial clubs play in the provinces - therefore Hibs (and Hearts and Spartans for that matter) are definatively non-provincial.

re your point - if you read through the posts you'll find hardly anybody expecting to see the boat pushed out ala Yams - more like a large proportion of fans concerned that not enough has been done to address our current predicament when everyone knows more funds were available.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 12:54 PM
"The clubs transfer policy"

The clubs transfer policy is surely to get some money in for players who no longer wish to be at the club prior to them leaving for no return at the end of a contract. It has always been thus, and the fact that we were fortunate to have a good crop of young players coming through at the same time under a good manager in Mowbray is utterly skewing peoples view of where we should/could be.

It is this that ultimately funded the stand and East Mains. Errors such as appointing Hughes have been made, but even that is only clearly in retrospect.

It woald never have been possible to hold onto Brown, Thomson, Fletch, Whittaker, O'Connor, Riordan. Lets say we needed (conservatively) to pay them an extra £15k each a week to compete with the OF. Theres an extra £60k per week, or £4,680,000 pa. Just for those six. Add 6k onto the gate for being a bit better, assume that theyre all adults and all pay £25 every week, thats an extra income of £2,850,000.

As the Amercians would doubtless say, you do the math.

I never mentioned about keeping anybody, so why should I do the maths? We could have done a lot more to ensure we had other talented youngsters in place to take their place though & that'd have been the transfer policy I would have been looking for.

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
I never mentioned about keeping anybody, so why should I do the maths? We could have done a lot more to ensure we had other talented youngsters in place to take their place though & that'd have been the transfer policy I would have been looking for.

Thats not a poilcy, its a very thin idea. What could we have done to ensure we had these players.
could you also name these players we missed out on. Did we not have a treble winning U19s team recently?

Twa Cairpets
01-02-2011, 01:08 PM
I never mentioned about keeping anybody, so why should I do the maths? We could have done a lot more to ensure we had other talented youngsters in place to take their place though & that'd have been the transfer policy I would have been looking for.

No you're right you're didnt, it was a general point not directed at you particularly.

We could have tried, and I'm reasonably confident that we probably did lookm to keep younger guys coming through - for example the 19s of last season wasnt just a one year fluke. But the management style of JC, Mixu and Yogi was not to blood younger players. How elke do you get experience except by playing? The management of the first team under Yogi in particualr just was not conducive to development of youth. With the exception of Wotherspoon, who else came through in the time he was in charge?

basehibby
01-02-2011, 01:13 PM
There was no sarcasm there at all - you came in making a point that I had already covered - it's not my fault guv. Nowhere have I seen you covering any such point - or not to my satisfaction anyway.

"If you must sell them then be prepared to spend at least as much in replacing them as you brought in"

So by your reckoning if a team languishing at the bottom of the league sells £1.5M worth of talent and then buys in £1.5M worth of talent it will no longer be languishing at the bottom of the league - it could happen I suppose. Well there would be a damn sight better chance than if you just spent 80K and banked the rest.

And since you can't quote a figure that would guarantee us staying up (so I take it you can???) it follows that we could still get relegated after spending these multiples but with more multiples of debt than there would have been otherwise A team could get relegated after spending any amount if they spent it badly enough - but it's still glaringly obvious that if you spend a greater amount with wisdom then your chances of football success will improve :rolleyes:

It's all very well for you floating financial notions hither and thither but Rod has to live in the real world and make the proper calls. it's all very well dismissing criticism out of hand but in the real world Hibs are in a relegation battle which could set the club back years if it's not won - IMO unneccessary risks are being taken in the name of frugality and the evidence is not hard to see - and mere condescension on your part will not convince me otherwise.

We currently have a manager who is in the process of building a team, rather that a disparate group of individuals, something we haven't had for a while but something that will reap rewards - and while you can imagine there to be a much happier outcome it is not based on reality (not sarcasm here either btw).You base a lot on supposition but I hope you are right and that Calderwood pulls us round the corner and goes on to enjoy real success
.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 01:14 PM
No you're right you're didnt, it was a general point not directed at you particularly.

We could have tried, and I'm reasonably confident that we probably did lookm to keep younger guys coming through - for example the 19s of last season wasnt just a one year fluke. But the management style of JC, Mixu and Yogi was not to blood younger players. How elke do you get experience except by playing? The management of the first team under Yogi in particualr just was not conducive to development of youth. With the exception of Wotherspoon, who else came through in the time he was in charge?

It's not just the players that were coming through our club though, I mentioned on another thread on the PM board, where we should have been spending some cash, for instance, on players like James McCarthy, to replace Brown. We got 4.4M for Brown, McCarthy went for 1.2M, more than two years later.

Bobby's Cinema
01-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Can you guys please tell me why an 'inspiring signing' would come to a relegation haunted club with miserable, loser fans with a growing reputation for hating everyone and everything?

Why would they come for a comparatively low wage, why would they come to Hibs if they had ANY other offer from a football team?

Why do you think we're somehow entitled to inspiring signings?

The club have managed to get money for players who were out of contract and move a total of six on. (4 of whom were widely regarded as 'wage thieves')

The club have managed to sign six players, 5 promising and 1 experienced to come and join a sinking ship, in terms of fan attitude if nothing else.

I suspect most of the naysayers on here don't go to watch Hibs and indeed may go to watch another Edinburgh club.

But still, who do you think Hibs are, that quality players are queuing up to sign for us?

Yer havin' a laugh, boys. Literally I suspect.
Behave yourself. I don't think the majority were being unrealistic in what they expected from the window.

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Ray, hindsight isnt a transfer policy.
J.Mc was 17 when Brown signed for celtic and had done nothing to suggest we should sign him. He signed his first contract with Hamilton when he was 15.
Hmmmm Wigan or Hibs?

Any other names?

basehibby
01-02-2011, 01:37 PM
What people don't realise is that wage structure/package dictates the transfer fee to a great extent. For instance we sold Broony for about £4.5m. You say spend at least as much? What wage expectation will a £4.5m player have?? I have no idea what Broony was on when he joined Celtic but it Would be about £20-£30k a week? So your logic means that we need to spend the same transfer fee to replace the player? We could try but we would not get anyone! What we do (or at least our managers try, some worse than others and yes im looking at you Yogi et al) is spend a % of it on the best replacement that fits our wage structure.

Some people have not even played FM!

You are taking my comment out of context here - back in 2007 we were doing alright in the league but had loads of stuff to pay for - it was a sensible strategy to invest much of that profit in infrastructure (although arguably a bit more could/should have gone to the manager's kitty).
My comments were in reference to NOW - an entirely different set of circumstances:
Hibs in 2011 are doing sheight in the league, out of both cups and the fans have been voting with their feet - I'm looking for some action to turn the league form around and get the fans back on side.
In the midst of all this we bring in c £400K in the transfer window (in addition to the £1.2M brought in in the summer) and spend c £80K.
So - are you trying to tell me that having just loosed Bamba, Zemama, Hogg and DeGraff that no more than £80K could be spent for fear of busting the wage budget??? Somehow I don't think your figures are adding up :confused:

Bristolhibby
01-02-2011, 01:48 PM
Zemmama is viewed through green tinted glasses.

True on his day he is brilliant, but he too often was powderpuff not interested and pushed around.

I remember going to Rugby Park for a Boxing day game a few years ago and he delivered nothing.

So I will miss the good skills, but ultimately want grafters in the team. I think we have signed some. Towell, Pallson and Scott.


Two leading players??? emphatically YES
Like it or not Bamba was usually our most effective Centre Half
Zemama our best (only?) creative midfielder

I'm prepared to accept that Bamba had to go as he was the type to go in the huff if he didn't get his own way - but has he been adequately replaced? No.

I see Zemama as a different case altogether - he's a flair player but has never lacked an appetite for the game and was on record as saying he felt he owed the club. I find it hard to believe he would have spat the dummy if told he was staying til the end of the season to help avoid relegation. He is a player I would definately like to have seen remaining to have players like Scott play alongside.

The fact he's been allowed to go for the sake of a relatively modest fee is IMO symptomatic of a frugality which, while it has been sensible at times, is wholly inappropriate in the current situation.

Brizo
01-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Our league position leaves us about as attractive as Michelle McManus in a bikini to any player at ICT , Mwell or any of our other SPL compeitors. We cant afford players with any pedigree as they will want substantially more than we can offer wages wise. So we are left scrabbling around the bargain basement looking for laddies on loan or taking a gamble on journeymen who have drifted from club to club to club.

Out in the real non tinternet world I dont know anyone who's excited by our new signings or who sees those signings as anything other than more of the same. Time will tell whether they are good enough to keep us up but theryre not going to entice many who have fallen away back to ER and wont cure the apathy thats apparent among a lot of fans.

greenlex
01-02-2011, 02:54 PM
Money?

I suspect Petrie is of the mind, that in all likelyhood we are going down and he is not willing to throw money at a lost cause. He maybe feels that if he keeps the wage bill down then a season in the first wiil be less expensive.
Do you really believe this? Really?

Kaiser1962
01-02-2011, 03:30 PM
Do you really believe this? Really?

The sad answer is that he probably does, yes.

The reality is that wages in the SPL are probably as low, in relation to elsewhere, that they have ever and the same probably goes for the standard. We got bumped by a Sheffield United reserve FFS and any similarities between West Ham and us are purely superficial.

My understanding is that meeting transfer fees is NOT the issue. Its what players (or their agents) believe they should be paid using Rooney (W not A) and Torres as the benchmark. Its frightening.

Theres another thread seriously suggesting that we pay Andy Webster over £14k a week. He hasnt kicked a ball in 8 months.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Ray, hindsight isnt a transfer policy.
J.Mc was 17 when Brown signed for celtic and had done nothing to suggest we should sign him. He signed his first contract with Hamilton when he was 15.
Hmmmm Wigan or Hibs?

Any other names?

I said so [as did others] at the time.

Were you living in a cocoon?

Hmmmm Two years after Hibs should have moved.

Check yourself, there has been a few targets over the last five years in the Scottish game that I know about, without even bothering to look down south, where I live.

JimBHibees
01-02-2011, 04:20 PM
I said so [as did others] at the time.

Were you living in a cocoon?

Hmmmm Two years after Hibs should have moved.

Check yourself, there has been a few targets over the last five years in the Scottish game that I know about, without even bothering to look down south, where I live.

Dorrans and Snodgrass being 2.

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Why would he come to hibs to play for the under 19s for a year or two when he was already getting first team football. He's at Wigan now, coming to us could have put his career back a year or two.

Do you know for a fact we never tried to sign him? I doubt you do.

I've not been living in a cocoon, why would you suggest that?

greenlex
01-02-2011, 04:29 PM
I said so [as did others] at the time.

Were you living in a cocoon?

Hmmmm Two years after Hibs should have moved.

Check yourself, there has been a few targets over the last five years in the Scottish game that I know about, without even bothering to look down south, where I live.


Dorrans and Snodgrass being 2.

Guys we are assuming we didnt try and also that they would come.
Adam Rooney falls into that category and he has plainly knocked us back. It may be down to our current position certainly but knocked back non the less.

CropleyWasGod
01-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Guys we are assuming we didnt try and also that they would come.
Adam Rooney falls into that category and he has plainly knocked us back. It may be down to our current position certainly but knocked back non the less.

Is that the case? Maybe CC just didn't fancy him?

greenlex
01-02-2011, 04:33 PM
Is that the case? Maybe CC just didn't fancy him?
Why were/are we trying to get him on a pre contract then?

HibbyAndy
01-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Why would he come to hibs to play for the under 19s for a year or two when he was already getting first team football. He's at Wigan now, coming to us could have put his career back a year or two.

Do you know for a fact we never tried to sign him? I doubt you do.

I've not been living in a cocoon, why would you suggest that?



Ma favourite film when i was wee :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
01-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Whhy were/are we trying to get him on a pre contract then?

Ahhh, you spotted the trick question. :greengrin

Sorry, there has been so much sheet on here the past few days I had forgotten about that.

Having said that, maybe we still are. Maybe he hasn't said naw (ok, maybe he has and I've missed it lol). Maybe he's waiting to see if we stay up?

greenlex
01-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Ahhh, you spotted the trick question. :greengrin

Sorry, there has been so much sheet on here the past few days I had forgotten about that.

Having said that, maybe we still are. Maybe he hasn't said naw (ok, maybe he has and I've missed it lol). Maybe he's waiting to see if we stay up?
All possible.

Barney McGrew
01-02-2011, 05:06 PM
In the midst of all this we bring in c £400K in the transfer window (in addition to the £1.2M brought in in the summer) and spend c £80K.
So - are you trying to tell me that having just loosed Bamba, Zemama, Hogg and DeGraff that no more than £80K could be spent for fear of busting the wage budget??? Somehow I don't think your figures are adding up :confused:

We'll have spent a hell of a lot more than £80k this window I'm willing to bet. It's not just the fee itself, there's signing on fees and agents fees to take into consideration. We'll likely have had to spend a bit on getting Palsson too, just like we have with others in the past (O'Brien and Maka for instance). Just because the papers don't report a fee doesn't mean there wasn't one paid.

I think we have seen a huge shift in who we have brought in this window, with in the main young up and coming talents who will hopefully play well and have a sell on value in the future to allow us to continue the cycle. It could quite easily be argued we should have been doing that as a matter of course, but in particular with Hughes he had different views and looked to bring in (in the main) more experienced journeymen types which is why we're in this mess in the first place. People look for the board to support the manager and not interfere with the playing side, yet at the same time say we should be signing this type of player or a player from a certain level and that the board should somehow enforce that. They can't have it both ways.

I was disappointed last night when we only brought in one striker and no CH, but having had a day to reflect I'm pretty positive. We're clearly still looking to bring some players into the squad over the next few days, and I know that we looked at a number of CH's that we didn't get for whatever reason.

Let's see what Wednesday night and the rest of the week bring. I'm confident by this time next week things will look a lot rosier.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 05:20 PM
Guys we are assuming we didnt try and also that they would come.
Adam Rooney falls into that category and he has plainly knocked us back. It may be down to our current position certainly but knocked back non the less.

Hibs had a reputation for playing and developing young players & letting them move on to bigger things & we had the money from the players going out, therefore I doubt that we couldn't attract any of the young talent going about.

I think it was more of a case that the club got complacent & thought the golden generation was the start of a never ending conveyor belt, as they indicated at the time & which was rightly dismissed as nonsense by many on here.

Even although he had youngsters that had came through the club, TM brought in quite a few young players & without thinking too hard, I think it was only really Morrow who never really made the grade [and the club money], so its difficult to understand why the club didn't carry on investing in this way, even although we would have had to make an initial outlay? [Before the usual suspects get on the case, we are not talking hearts & leeds here]

Ray_
01-02-2011, 05:25 PM
We'll have spent a hell of a lot more than £80k this window I'm willing to bet. It's not just the fee itself, there's signing on fees and agents fees to take into consideration. We'll likely have had to spend a bit on getting Palsson too, just like we have with others in the past (O'Brien and Maka for instance). Just because the papers don't report a fee doesn't mean there wasn't one paid.

I think we have seen a huge shift in who we have brought in this window, with in the main young up and coming talents who will hopefully play well and have a sell on value in the future to allow us to continue the cycle. It could quite easily be argued we should have been doing that as a matter of course, but in particular with Hughes he had different views and looked to bring in (in the main) more experienced journeymen types which is why we're in this mess in the first place. People look for the board to support the manager and not interfere with the playing side, yet at the same time say we should be signing this type of player or a player from a certain level and that the board should somehow enforce that. They can't have it both ways.

I was disappointed last night when we only brought in one striker and no CH, but having had a day to reflect I'm pretty positive. We're clearly still looking to bring some players into the squad over the next few days, and I know that we looked at a number of CH's that we didn't get for whatever reason.

Let's see what Wednesday night and the rest of the week bring. I'm confident by this time next week things will look a lot rosier.

The Liverpool lad looks a prospect, unfortunately, the length of the deal would suggest there won't be huge profits in the sell on, but it is certainly a move in the right direction.

greenlex
01-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Hibs had a reputation for playing and developing young players & letting them move on to bigger things & we had the money from the players going out, therefore I doubt that we couldn't attract any of the young talent going about.

I think it was more of a case that the club got complacent & thought the golden generation was the start of a never ending conveyor belt, as they indicated at the time & which was rightly dismissed as nonsense by many on here.

Even although he had youngsters that had came through the club, TM brought in quite a few young players & without thinking too hard, I think it was only really Morrow who never really made the grade [and the club money], so its difficult to understand why the club didn't carry on investing in this way, even although we would have had to make an initial outlay? [Before the usual suspects get on the case, we are not talking hearts & leeds here]

True Ray but I dont think we paid too much or anything for Mowbrays young signings. I can only think of the well documented 5k for Sproule(was he that young?)
The McCarthys Roonys etc would needed to be more substantial I think assuming the other clubs were even willing to sell them.

CropleyWasGod
01-02-2011, 05:30 PM
The Liverpool lad looks a prospect, unfortunately, the length of the deal would suggest there won't be huge profits in the sell on, but it is certainly a move in the right direction.

.. but you can see the scenario unfold. He has a good six months, RP sees the potential, and extends his contract. Thus his selling value increases, even if we do only have him for a further year. RP's done it a few times before.

greenlex
01-02-2011, 05:32 PM
.. but you can see the scenario unfold. He has a good six months, RP sees the potential, and extends his contract. Thus his selling value increases, even if we do only have him for a further year. RP's done it a few times before.
Or he sees his contract out and we get nowt but the 18 months service.:greengrin

Ray_
01-02-2011, 05:34 PM
True Ray but I dont think we paid too much or anything for Mowbrays young signings. I can only think of the well documented 5k for Sproule(was he that young?)
The McCarthys Roonys etc would needed to be more substantial I think assuming the other clubs were even willing to sell them.

We didn't have money to invest when TM brought in the young players, we could have done so when the Browns & Thomson's were being sold.

Is it only Hibs who have to sell players?

CropleyWasGod
01-02-2011, 05:34 PM
Or he sees his contract out and we get nowt but the 18 months service.:greengrin

If he's crap, sure. :greengrin

But, shorter contracts often have the effect of making young players work harder to earn a better one. Maybe RP has sold it that way?

Ray_
01-02-2011, 05:36 PM
.. but you can see the scenario unfold. He has a good six months, RP sees the potential, and extends his contract. Thus his selling value increases, even if we do only have him for a further year. RP's done it a few times before.

Hopefully, but we may have only got him for a short contract, because he wanted to go in the shop window? We'll have to wait & see.

greenlex
01-02-2011, 05:40 PM
We didn't have money to invest when TM brought in the young players, we could have done so when the Browns & Thomson's were being sold.

Is it only Hibs who have to sell players?
Fair point of course its not. Hibs with money to spend could arguably push the price up to an unrealistic level remembering its a bit of a gamble.
This happens. The other end of the scale but look at Liverpool. 35M for Andy Carrol. Pure madness but Newcastle have won a watch IMO.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 05:45 PM
Fair point of course its not. Hibs with money to spend could arguably push the price up to an unrealistic level remembering its a bit of a gamble.
This happens. The other end of the scale but look at Liverpool. 35M for Andy Carrol. Pure madness but Newcastle have won a watch IMO.

What is madness to me is the fact we have got as poor as we have & to have completely reversed the upward spiral & the financial benefits that came with it.

ELZ1875
01-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Hibs had a reputation for playing and developing young players & letting them move on to bigger things & we had the money from the players going out, therefore I doubt that we couldn't attract any of the young talent going about.

I think it was more of a case that the club got complacent & thought the golden generation was the start of a never ending conveyor belt, as they indicated at the time & which was rightly dismissed as nonsense by many on here.

Even although he had youngsters that had came through the club, TM brought in quite a few young players & without thinking too hard, I think it was only really Morrow who never really made the grade [and the club money], so its difficult to understand why the club didn't carry on investing in this way, even although we would have had to make an initial outlay? [Before the usual suspects get on the case, we are not talking hearts & leeds here]


What a load of nonsense.
We play youngsters so every youngster wants to play for us?
Ray, I really wished everything was as black and white as you say it is.

As for the second part, my guess is our policy is........let the manager decide who he wants, not tell him what age group he has to pick from.

CropleyWasGod
01-02-2011, 06:52 PM
Hopefully, but we may have only got him for a short contract, because he wanted to go in the shop window? We'll have to wait & see.

Sure. But then shop window players can be good signings. Playing for their next deal.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 07:44 PM
What a load of nonsense.
We play youngsters so every youngster wants to play for us?
Ray, I really wished everything was as black and white as you say it is.

As for the second part, my guess is our policy is........let the manager decide who he wants, not tell him what age group he has to pick from.

1) What makes you the authority?

2) So reverse it, every youngster doesn't want to play for us, especially when we are supposedly one of the SPL's bigger teams [a far better example for the use of your word nonsense]

3) The second part has got us far eh, battling relegation with Hamilton & almost totally void of saleable assets.

4) Who said it was black & white, however, it is certainly not as difficult as you are suggesting & it is not as if it hadn't been done before. Cough up the £10 for private membership & you'll even find a thread where a post details examples where, in the past, Hibs have done exactly that.

This is a forum for people to voice opinions and debate, as I have been doing with Greenlex, therefore it is not obligatory to have the same opinion as you do.

Ray_
01-02-2011, 07:48 PM
Sure. But then shop window players can be good signings. Playing for their next deal.

Certainly good for Hibs over the next 18 months, but not good for cashing in, in the future, was the point I was thinking about, but nevertheless, a step in the right direction IMHO.

Kaiser1962
01-02-2011, 07:56 PM
Certainly good for Hibs over the next 18 months, but not good for cashing in, in the future, was the point I was thinking about, but nevertheless, a step in the right direction IMHO.

Its a gamble either way Ray. If he does well we will be screaming, me included, to get him signed up and hold on to him and if he does not so well then we will be complaining, me included, to get rid of the wage thief.
The reality is that if he does well he will be gone in 18 months and if not, then we want rid of him in 18 months. :greengrin

Ray_
01-02-2011, 07:59 PM
Its a gamble either way Ray. If he does well we will be screaming, me included, to get him signed up and hold on to him and if he does not so well then we will be complaining, me included, to get rid of the wage thief.
The reality is that if he does well he will be gone in 18 months and if not, then we want rid of him in 18 months. :greengrin

Too true, all down to judgement, lets hope it is the start of us [the club] getting better at it.

Speedway
01-02-2011, 08:33 PM
Ok, earned a crust fr the day, back to the futility. What have we got?



:top marks Well said. The board groupies will have a go, but don't let them put you off.



Vitriolic, self-loathing bollox. What a surprise.

You're right and anyone who disagrees with you or (heaven forbid!) the board, is a yam or a moron. It must be great being you, up there on the high ground, keeping us simpletons on the straight and narrow.

In Rod we trust

Amen

That's right, and I'm sick of you being simpletons, so educate yourselves and hurry up. Us Uberfans hate the cretins.


Less and less are spending their money. If that continues, even less money will be spent and Hibs will (more than likely) become even poorer. I don't think the fans have any more a sense of entitlement to a decent team than the club have in taking us for granted.

The bit about 'poisoned blood' is tragic IMHO so I'm not even going to dignify it by debating it.

The rest doesn't apply to me so I'm going to ignore that too.

But there's never been a happy time on this board. 'Saint Tony' era was even vilified by many, many posters for having no defence. Saint Tony actually didn't have a good defence, but the accusers could never balance those posts by pointing out all of the high points of that era. It hurt them too much to try. So it doesn't matter what Hibs do, the ingrained culture doesn't change.


:cup: And the prize for biggest pile of condescending clap trap of the day goes to..... SPEEDWAY! (the bit in bold takes the biscuit - it really does :rolleyes:)

Just cos you choose to refuse to acknowledge any failings at the club does not mean that everybody else has to join in - I don't even like Chairman Mau :confused:

Who is taking the biscuit for their ridiculous posting, again?


Very disappointed in the OP. A typical trying to be controversial, with an interesting twist, post i would suggest from a poster I nonetheless enjoy reading....

However, I am getting pretty sick to the back teeth reading criticisms to the point of ridicule and disrespect of our support.

They deserve it.

Smurf, you and I agree and disagree on Hibs in equal measure. Even you've overdone it in your attacks recently and I'm just as sick of that (since you've still done nothing contructive about it that you've reported on here) as you are reading fan attacks. You think the board deserve, I think the 'fans' deserve it. ('Fans' because nothing they type and nothing I hear them shout would make me regard them in any way as 'supporters')


Who is ticking anybody off? It's a personal viewpoint. The comments from both sides are equally depressing, that's the point I am trying to make. (Badly obviously.:greengrin) The whole doom and gloomer /happy clapper thing depresses the hell out of me, there is no need for things to be so polarised. Comments like imbecile, sycophant etc just add to that tendency.

I forgot to add '******ed'.


Money?

I suspect Petrie is of the mind, that in all likelyhood we are going down and he is not willing to throw money at a lost cause. He maybe feels that if he keeps the wage bill down then a season in the first wiil be less expensive.

If they're 'in form' and 'sought after' then Hibs aren't going to be their best pay day, are they?


Here we go again , i must be a yam because i criticise the quality of the signings. well i probably have been paying to watch Hibs longer than you but if you want to call me a yam thats fine but to say we are not entitled to inspired signings is just silly. Inspiring signings will come to the club if we pay enough just think back to Sauzee etc, we need to increase the quality of our team year on year and we should never find ourselves in the situation we are in again.
The board have shat themselves bigtime and only when they realised that some of them will be oot on there jacksies if we get relegated have they done something , this is no way to run our football club and we must not forget or forgive the board for the state we are in.

Yes, you must be a yam. Why aren't you a Hibby?


Yet another desperate fishing attempt.

Could be worse, could be yet another arsey comment with nothing to contribute.


Behave yourself. I don't think the majority were being unrealistic in what they expected from the window.

What did the majority expect? They got 6 players. 3 from bigger clubs.