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stokesmessiah
28-01-2011, 07:51 PM
There has been much debate and heated argument on here recently, and rightly so, about hibs fortunes. Most fans are hurting and angry about the predicament that we have found ourselves in but there has been universal calls for signings from all camps.

I know there has been a couple of like minded threads about the players we are signing but what i want to know is where is this squad going?

Yogi, whether you love him or hate him, was congratulated by most with his signings (initially i hasten to add) with regards to the likes of Stokes & Miller. I think these guys had showed something early on in their career but for whatever reason had wandered off the path, however most were happy to see them arriving here and the level of excitement built. I dont think there is any argument that we did finish in 4th last season but i still cant help but feel that was down in no part to the first half of the season where without ever really being that good (yes there was spells, game against motherwell being one) we picked up enough points and just about hung on to 4th until the season ended, when our slump started all the warning signs were there for us to see.

I dont think personally you have to be one of the "football brains" that Yogi insisited to see though that our squad has some major flaws in it taking us up to now where the squad has collapsed on itself.

This takes us to CC who also seems to be a Marmite chap but IMO i think a lot of the tinkering he has done with the squad was the right thing, he has given everyone a shot, he has tried different shapes and he has dished out lengths of rope to the squad to hang themselves with. What does interest me though is the signings he has made so far in this window they are all younger guys (i know there is school of though about buying experienced proven players which i dont buy into, look where its got us) who have something to prove in the game and are still trying to make it.

How do people see these new signings integrating with what we have got left? Can the guys brought in add a more balanced look to the squad? Can they even bring out some of the good in the guys we have?

I think at the very least they are going to add a bit of bite and hopefully (i cant testify as not seen in the flesh) some pace in key areas of the pitch.

How do other people think the squad is going to develop not just in these last few months of the season but god willing if we stay up then into next season and onwards under CC's stewardship?

Thoughts???

greenlex
28-01-2011, 08:03 PM
I think there is a watershed in the boards thinking. With little or not enough decent youngsters coming through and the club currently running at a loss of around 2 million per year younger players doing well will have a value so that is what we are seeing being signed. My problem with this strategy especially in the position we are in league wise is I think we need a bit of experience along side them. The experienced ones that are in the squad are some of the biggest culprits regards bite,dig and decision making. If there are not a couple of experienced signings before Monday I think the board are taking a HUGE gamble with the clubs immediate future. (ie the SPL)
I hope the gamble pays off and that they all prosper and kick us on. Good for us and good for them too.
We need a striker or two as well.

RMQ1967
28-01-2011, 08:25 PM
The next 5 or 6 weeks will be the acid test of CC's abilities as a manager.

It may take 2 or 3 weeks to get the new guys bedded in but we should be able to see if he / BD have an eye for real players before then.

Not since TM has any manager been able to spot a decent percentage of players with real quality or potential & truly understand the type of player we need in the key positions.

I've given up slating the players as it's obvious they're trying their best but unf. just dont have it.

I'm really impressed with what CC has to say & more importantly what he doesn't say - it'd be easy to give the press headlines but he's smart enough not to give them anything to play with.

Like everyone else I'm hoping he's got an even smarter football brain & that we finish this season strongly. Time will tell & I'm looking forward to a couple of months down the line by which time we should be firing on all cylinders.

IWasThere2016
28-01-2011, 08:31 PM
We need a striker or two as well.

Mikey's gonna get you!

Toaods
28-01-2011, 08:33 PM
Good opening post, I thought CC was giving them all a wee chance and at times lost patience myself but I think he's a cool head under pressure. He knows time will help correct the squad and ease up on his ears. Any new signing would lift us but he does seem to be picking up decent prospects that perhaps he thinks he himself can bring on. His record says he can do this so it has to be good.

LeithBoozy
28-01-2011, 08:56 PM
One of big plus points for me, is that there has been no fans of the clubs happy to lose any of the players that we have snapped-up. In fact they have sounded disgruntled that they are off. They have all comented about their drive, energy and skill, and the fact that none of them will shrink a tackle has me feeling a lot more hopefull than I was. :wink:

stokesmessiah
28-01-2011, 09:04 PM
One last question.....what do we need before this window "slams" shut?

For me (if deek stays) one big strong CF that deek can play off of and i would quite like us to sign that keeper who was on trial.

hibeelin
28-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Have heard CC say several times that we need a 'Leader' on the park. Hopefully he has his eye on one of those and gets him in by monday.
Do any of the names flying about fit that discription? (honest question)


:flag:

Kaiser1962
28-01-2011, 09:31 PM
One last question.....what do we need before this window "slams" shut?

For me (if deek stays) one big strong CF that deek can play off of and i would quite like us to sign that keeper who was on trial.

In theory we already have two on the books. Will be interesting to see what happens on that front.

stokesmessiah
28-01-2011, 09:33 PM
Have heard CC say several times that we need a 'Leader' on the park. Hopefully he has his eye on one of those and gets him in by monday.
Do any of the names flying about fit that discription? (honest question)


:flag:


In all honesty all the names that were banded about have been signed....bar the czech keeper and thomson i dont know who else we have been strongly linked with. I cant say that any of the guys we have signed are not a leader as i dont know them well enough??

I agree big time with CC though we need a wise head on the pitch talking to the team throughout and keeping us going?

Iain G
28-01-2011, 09:39 PM
As the dust is settling on our 4 signings, and before anyone else comes in, I am feeling quite positive about the players and type of players we have brought in, they are players with a point to prove in their careers and this is the move that could kick them on to the next level.

Thornhill and Palsson - 2 young players who are struggling to break through at their teams, the move to Hibs is a chance for them to step their game up to regular first team football and prove a few folks wrong for not giving them that chance at their former clubs.

Scott - a chance to push on at an SPL club, again another one who will be going out to prove he belongs at an SPL club and is better than a first division player.

Towell - again a short term loan, good first team football and a good chance for him to show Neil Lennon what he can do for Celtic.

So all hungry players, hopefully CC/DA have spotted that desire and positive attitude that can only improve on what we have at present and hopefully pull a good number of the existing squad up with them. I like this signing policy as think it will offer us more than signing the "'big'' name players who have fallen off the career path. This tactic worked well for Mogga (Murphy, Sproule for example) and am glad CC is going down the same path.

Same as giving Booth his chance, a young player hungry to impress :agree:

Now one forward, another central defender and perhaps that 6ft 6 goalkeeper and I'd be happy :greengrin

stokesmessiah
28-01-2011, 09:51 PM
As the dust is settling on our 4 signings, and before anyone else comes in, I am feeling quite positive about the players and type of players we have brought in, they are players with a point to prove in their careers and this is the move that could kick them on to the next level.

Thornhill and Palsson - 2 young players who are struggling to break through at their teams, the move to Hibs is a chance for them to step their game up to regular first team football and prove a few folks wrong for not giving them that chance at their former clubs.

Scott - a chance to push on at an SPL club, again another one who will be going out to prove he belongs at an SPL club and is better than a first division player.

Towell - again a short term loan, good first team football and a good chance for him to show Neil Lennon what he can do for Celtic.

So all hungry players, hopefully CC/DA have spotted that desire and positive attitude that can only improve on what we have at present and hopefully pull a good number of the existing squad up with them. I like this signing policy as think it will offer us more than signing the "'big'' name players who have fallen off the career path. This tactic worked well for Mogga (Murphy, Sproule for example) and am glad CC is going down the same path.

Same as giving Booth his chance, a young player hungry to impress :agree:

Now one forward, another central defender and perhaps that 6ft 6 goalkeeper and I'd be happy :greengrin

Easy pleased :greengrin

calder45a
28-01-2011, 11:18 PM
One last question.....what do we need before this window "slams" shut?

For me (if deek stays) one big strong CF that deek can play off of and i would quite like us to sign that keeper who was on trial.

Very disappointed if a proven striker is not signed in this window and not on pre-contract.
Stokes was the difference between Premiership 1st division.

Heedersnvolleys
29-01-2011, 08:22 AM
I think we are kidding ourselves if we think there is some master strategy behind our current signings. My thinking behind it is we are not producing the young players with potential re-sale value so we are now trying buy some youth on the cheap which RP hopes to sell in the future for a handsome profit and if they help the current team that's a Brucey bonus

stokesmessiah
29-01-2011, 08:26 AM
I think we are kidding ourselves if we think there is some master strategy behind our current signings. My thinking behind it is we are not producing the young players with potential re-sale value so we are now trying buy some youth on the cheap which RP hopes to sell in the future for a handsome profit and if they help the current team that's a Brucey bonus

Hibs Shocker As Club Moves To Invest In Future ! :rolleyes:

You are speaking about it like its a bad thing?? We alll know how our club is run if we get a couple of good years out of exciting prospects on there way up before moving them on for a profit i would be amazed if people on here would complain. (not totally true, people on here seem to need very little reason to do that)

Heedersnvolleys
29-01-2011, 09:01 AM
Sorry I did not mean it to sound so negative, I was just try to say the feeling I get from the signings is that helping the team is not the primary reason for signing them there re-sale value is. Now if we were targeting the correct players(possible ones with a bit more experience! Or even players we maybe hoped that we could keep!) to get us out of this mess and the re-sale value should be the Brucey bonus.

Kato
29-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Surely to re-sell them they have to have helped the team?

I think he's buying players who have some confidence in themselves and who are hungry to show that. Buying experience isn't easy in this window. Hopefully there's more to come.

Kaiser1962
29-01-2011, 09:32 AM
Sorry I did not mean it to sound so negative, I was just try to say the feeling I get from the signings is that helping the team is not the primary reason for signing them there re-sale value is. Now if we were targeting the correct players(possible ones with a bit more experience! Or even players we maybe hoped that we could keep!) to get us out of this mess and the re-sale value should be the Brucey bonus.

Who are these "correct players"? And who would you keep bearing in mind the mess we are in?

stokesmessiah
29-01-2011, 09:33 AM
Surely to re-sell them they have to have helped the team?

I think he's buying players who have some confidence in themselves and who are hungry to show that. Buying experience isn't easy in this window. Hopefully there's more to come.


That is key i think, the fact that all of these players are still young and have something to prove. Let's face it they are all well thought of players who ppl see as having potential so if they come to Hibs and dont bother to apply themselves and cant make it in the SPL there is only one way that their career is going.

Iain G
29-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Sorry I did not mean it to sound so negative, I was just try to say the feeling I get from the signings is that helping the team is not the primary reason for signing them there re-sale value is. Now if we were targeting the correct players(possible ones with a bit more experience! Or even players we maybe hoped that we could keep!) to get us out of this mess and the re-sale value should be the Brucey bonus.

I would hope that you could at least spell Pat McGinlay properly...:stirrer:

Your 2 posts on this thread are both cynical and negative about Hibs signings, suggesting that we are signing hungry young and lower league players for eanything other than getting us out of this current mess is a pretty damning view of our management team. :agree:

EasterRoad4Ever
29-01-2011, 09:58 AM
The loss of confidence and general malaise running through this Hibs squad is worse than anything I have seen in over 40 years. CC HAD to do something but the jury is still definitely out on whether or not it is the right move or enough.

The potential problems with the signings so far are:

1. Youngsters usually have fragile confidence themselves. If things don't improve quickly, I fear we'll see these new signing's heads going down too.
2. We need a captain - a proper, strong leader of men on the pitch. None of the signings or remaining players fit that bill.
3. We need a spine down the side - good keeper, strong CB, ball winning midfielder and a good striker (who might actually score goals). With Brown dropped for whatever reason, we really have none of these. Longer term, this is a major problem for the club.

IMHO the club has been seriously mismanaged. Selling our best players and allowing so many to run their contracts out at the same time is a flawed strategy and the blame for that must rest with the Board. They are now praying that CC can dig them out of that hole.

James70
29-01-2011, 10:01 AM
Before the start of the transfer window I do not believe we had a team full of poor players. What we did have was a poor team which was down to a variety of reasons and which latterly at least was going through a huge confidence crisis.

By losing old established players and bringing in new blood we are introducing young, enthusiastic and, hopefully, more confident players in an effort to lift the atmosphere within the club.

Our SPL survival will depend upon how quickly all the new players blend together and complement each other. Whatever happens, the team on the park cannot be any worse than what has gone before.

I can see the team becoming more physical, energetic and purposeful and in the short term an unknown quantity for our opponents to deal with.

Expecting Rain
29-01-2011, 10:34 AM
There has been much debate and heated argument on here recently, and rightly so, about hibs fortunes. Most fans are hurting and angry about the predicament that we have found ourselves in but there has been universal calls for signings from all camps.

I know there has been a couple of like minded threads about the players we are signing but what i want to know is where is this squad going?

Yogi, whether you love him or hate him, was congratulated by most with his signings (initially i hasten to add) with regards to the likes of Stokes & Miller. I think these guys had showed something early on in their career but for whatever reason had wandered off the path, however most were happy to see them arriving here and the level of excitement built. I dont think there is any argument that we did finish in 4th last season but i still cant help but feel that was down in no part to the first half of the season where without ever really being that good (yes there was spells, game against motherwell being one) we picked up enough points and just about hung on to 4th until the season ended, when our slump started all the warning signs were there for us to see.

I dont think personally you have to be one of the "football brains" that Yogi insisited to see though that our squad has some major flaws in it taking us up to now where the squad has collapsed on itself.

This takes us to CC who also seems to be a Marmite chap but IMO i think a lot of the tinkering he has done with the squad was the right thing, he has given everyone a shot, he has tried different shapes and he has dished out lengths of rope to the squad to hang themselves with. What does interest me though is the signings he has made so far in this window they are all younger guys (i know there is school of though about buying experienced proven players which i dont buy into, look where its got us) who have something to prove in the game and are still trying to make it.

How do people see these new signings integrating with what we have got left? Can the guys brought in add a more balanced look to the squad? Can they even bring out some of the good in the guys we have?

I think at the very least they are going to add a bit of bite and hopefully (i cant testify as not seen in the flesh) some pace in key areas of the pitch.

How do other people think the squad is going to develop not just in these last few months of the season but god willing if we stay up then into next season and onwards under CC's stewardship?

Thoughts???

Really good post, especially the 5th paragraph, there`s been a lot of factors which have led us to our present predicament, positives and negatives as well as unforseen circumstances.
Hibs have tried to address the current problems in a very active transfer window, i think that Calderwood has brought to the club a composed and measured response and his work really begins after the window shuts, our progress is crucial in the way that it is paced and obviously the first thing we have to do is get out of the relegation dogfight, as strange as it may seem i can see a bit of light and some much needed common sense, the experience will make us collectively a stronger club.
Negativity in the stadium on match days and feeding the evening news is all detrimental to what we are trying to achieve.

Heedersnvolleys
29-01-2011, 10:45 AM
Who are these "correct players"? And who would you keep bearing in mind the mess we are in?

What I meant was trying to maybe for once sign players that we hope would stay with the club to build around rather players we hope to sell in year. Let's face it the constant manager merry go round is unsettling enough but I think I can remember some one on here quoting we had signed 85 players in so many years that can't be good either. Most of the teams above(Motherwell, Dundee uni, st Johnston for examples) us have had over the past few years a steady core of players the rely on week after week. Our longest serving players can't even get a game. We need that magical spine that everybody alludes to!

Kato
29-01-2011, 11:05 AM
What I meant was trying to maybe for once sign players that we hope would stay with the club to build around rather players we hope to sell in year.

Easy to say. Harder to do in the modern age and particularly difficult to do during all at once in one January transfer window.

Maybe you have some suggestions as to who would sign a long term deal with Hibs right at this time.

Heedersnvolleys
29-01-2011, 11:12 AM
Easy to say. Harder to do in the modern age and particularly difficult to do during all at once in one January transfer window.

Maybe you have some suggestions as to who would sign a long term deal with Hibs right at this time.

Yeah your right, I think my last line suggests that i realise how difficult it is! :wink:

snooky
29-01-2011, 11:30 AM
My main contention with the 'old squad' has been lack of pace.
We appeared to be a yard slow all over the park (physically and mentally).
You can't inject a yard of pace into a player overnight (btw, some players will never have it) and at SPL level, that yard is everything.

Hopefully the introduction of the new young guns will address this.

--------
29-01-2011, 12:38 PM
I would hope that you could at least spell Pat McGinlay properly...:stirrer:

Your 2 posts on this thread are both cynical and negative about Hibs signings, suggesting that we are signing hungry young and lower league players for anything other than getting us out of this current mess is a pretty damning view of our management team. :agree:


Indeed. I smell sweet potatoes... :casper:

Kaiser1962
29-01-2011, 12:39 PM
What I meant was trying to maybe for once sign players that we hope would stay with the club to build around rather players we hope to sell in year. Let's face it the constant manager merry go round is unsettling enough but I think I can remember some one on here quoting we had signed 85 players in so many years that can't be good either. Most of the teams above(Motherwell, Dundee uni, st Johnston for examples) us have had over the past few years a steady core of players the rely on week after week. Our longest serving players can't even get a game. We need that magical spine that everybody alludes to!

Being the operative word.:greengrin

Wasn't having a pop but we are, as a support, bloody difficult to please. As for building a side around certain players over a period of time the reality will prove somewhat different. Our latest signing Polsson, for example, has come here to show what he can do. If it doesn't work out for him here RP will be getting slated for going for the "cheap option" and Polsson will be hounded out a nervous wreck. If he does well then we will be struggling to keep him beyond 18 months. If he does really well, which we all hope he does, we will be lucky if he's still here in a years time. That is the reality and the truth is we cannot come near the wages that are paid to even slightly above average players. The most we can hope for is to enjoy them while their here and when they do move on it is to the overall benefit of the club. And the cycle goes on and Hibs go on.

Craig_in_Prague
29-01-2011, 12:49 PM
Being the operative word.:greengrin

Wasn't having a pop but we are, as a support, bloody difficult to please. As for building a side around certain players over a period of time the reality will prove somewhat different. Our latest signing Polsson, for example, has come here to show what he can do. If it doesn't work out for him here RP will be getting slated for going for the "cheap option" and Polsson will be hounded out a nervous wreck. If he does well then we will be struggling to keep him beyond 18 months. If he does really well, which we all hope he does, we will be lucky if he's still here in a years time. That is the reality and the truth is we cannot come near the wages that are paid to even slightly above average players. The most we can hope for is to enjoy them while their here and when they do move on it is to the overall benefit of the club. And the cycle goes on and Hibs go on.

:agree:

And if indeed the likes of Palsson goes onto to bigger and better things, ideally we'll get some dosh for him as well, If we can bring in good prospects like this and sell them on for decent money, I envisage now that the rest of the clubs infrastructure is sound, we will see our pot grow for putting back into the playing side.
So it's definitely in our interests to sell on talent and grow our finances, than be stuck with the likes of Rankin, Nish etc in our squad.
We should then, in time, be able to start paying more fee's and/or higher wages.
Having a core of decent SPL players can help as main stays, but the one's we have just don't have the underbelly required sadly. Though until this season Murray was a great player to have, Riordan, Miller etc still good to have too.

Slate them or not, but our board have us on a promising path. We're potentially going to slide off that path, if the worse happens this season, but let's hope it doesn't come to that and CC can re-build the squad properly this summer.

In the meantime fingers crossed we've signed some decent players and we can get away from Hamilton.

Signing Rooney would top off this window I must say. Please the 'tache, you know it makes sense :aok: