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StevieC
27-01-2011, 09:09 PM
Personally, I think that CC is coming in for an excessive amount of undue abuse on here.

Lets have a quick look at his recent record.

Going back 2 years .. CC was brought in as first team coach to a Newcastle team filled with overpaid, underperforming duds and heading towards relegation. The team was in dissaray, the club were in dissaray, the fans were in dissaray and managers were coming and going more often than the electric meter was getting read.

In these conditions, it was little wonder that the team was relegated, but you could hardly pin that on CC.

June 2009 saw him moving up to assistant manager as he and Hughton prepared for a season in the Championship. With the first team duds emptied and some new faces at the training ground things started to change. The football improved, the results kept coming and in the end they walked the Championship.

August 2010 saw the team back in the Premiership and despite being unable to invest heavily in the team saw some good football getting played and some decent results. Notably a 6-0 win over Aston Villa, a Coca-Cola Cup win over Chelsea and a 5-1 drubbing of Sunderland. Admittedly away form was very poor with the Championship winning side but they are currently pushing for a Europa Cup spot rather than considering a relegation battle.

Different job, different team, different league .. I know .. but I can personally confirm that the way that Newcastle played under Hughton and CC was like night and day compared to the previous season.

Hughton may well have been the man in charge but you can be rest assured that assistant managers and coaches will also play a massive part in turning round the fortunes of a club in decline.

Hibbyradge
27-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Personally, I think that CC is coming in for an excessive amount of undue abuse on here.

Lets have a quick look at his recent record.

Going back 2 years .. CC was brought in as first team coach to a Newcastle team filled with overpaid, underperforming duds and heading towards relegation. The team was in dissaray, the club were in dissaray, the fans were in dissaray and managers were coming and going more often than the electric meter was getting read.

In these conditions, it was little wonder that the team was relegated, but you could hardly pin that on CC.

June 2009 saw him moving up to assistant manager as he and Hughton prepared for a season in the Championship. With the first team duds emptied and some new faces at the training ground things started to change. The football improved, the results kept coming and in the end they walked the Championship.

August 2010 saw the team back in the Premiership and despite being unable to invest heavily in the team saw some good football getting played and some decent results. Notably a 6-0 win over Aston Villa, a Coca-Cola Cup win over Chelsea and a 5-1 drubbing of Sunderland. Admittedly away form was very poor with the Championship winning side but they are currently pushing for a Europa Cup spot rather than considering a relegation battle.

Different job, different team, different league .. I know .. but I can personally confirm that the way that Newcastle played under Hughton and CC was like night and day compared to the previous season.

Hughton may well have been the man in charge but you can be rest assured that assistant managers and coaches will also play a massive part in turning round the fortunes of a club in decline.

Good post, Stevie.

I'm actually excited by the signings we've made this week.

Young, up and coming players who the management rate and in exactly the right positions.

We can't make marquee signings anymore, so signing young guys is the right strategy.

I'm optimistic about the future.

Dalianwanda
27-01-2011, 09:55 PM
Good post, Stevie.

I'm actually excited by the signings we've made this week.

Young, up and coming players who the management rate and in exactly the right positions.

We can't make marquee signings anymore, so signing young guys is the right strategy.

I'm optimistic about the future.

what he said :agree:

Mibbes Aye
27-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Good post, Stevie.

I'm actually excited by the signings we've made this week.

Young, up and coming players who the management rate and in exactly the right positions.

We can't make marquee signings anymore, so signing young guys is the right strategy.

I'm optimistic about the future.

:agree:

Every manager needs time to bring players in and get his team settled.

Calderwood is no fool and his signings are coming with reputations for working hard and I've not heard any criticised for a lack of technical ability. Probably because they're sound in that regard.

It's a rebuilding job and certain players were always going to be leaving in the summer, if not before.

I'm optimistic about our future too :agree:

Jonnyboy
27-01-2011, 10:32 PM
Personally, I think that CC is coming in for an excessive amount of undue abuse on here.

Lets have a quick look at his recent record.

Going back 2 years .. CC was brought in as first team coach to a Newcastle team filled with overpaid, underperforming duds and heading towards relegation. The team was in dissaray, the club were in dissaray, the fans were in dissaray and managers were coming and going more often than the electric meter was getting read.

In these conditions, it was little wonder that the team was relegated, but you could hardly pin that on CC.

June 2009 saw him moving up to assistant manager as he and Hughton prepared for a season in the Championship. With the first team duds emptied and some new faces at the training ground things started to change. The football improved, the results kept coming and in the end they walked the Championship.

August 2010 saw the team back in the Premiership and despite being unable to invest heavily in the team saw some good football getting played and some decent results. Notably a 6-0 win over Aston Villa, a Coca-Cola Cup win over Chelsea and a 5-1 drubbing of Sunderland. Admittedly away form was very poor with the Championship winning side but they are currently pushing for a Europa Cup spot rather than considering a relegation battle.

Different job, different team, different league .. I know .. but I can personally confirm that the way that Newcastle played under Hughton and CC was like night and day compared to the previous season.

Hughton may well have been the man in charge but you can be rest assured that assistant managers and coaches will also play a massive part in turning round the fortunes of a club in decline.

Thanks for cheering me up Stevie :thumbsup:

Tricla
27-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Personally, I think that CC is coming in for an excessive amount of undue abuse on here.

Lets have a quick look at his recent record.

Going back 2 years .. CC was brought in as first team coach to a Newcastle team filled with overpaid, underperforming duds and heading towards relegation. The team was in dissaray, the club were in dissaray, the fans were in dissaray and managers were coming and going more often than the electric meter was getting read.

In these conditions, it was little wonder that the team was relegated, but you could hardly pin that on CC.

June 2009 saw him moving up to assistant manager as he and Hughton prepared for a season in the Championship. With the first team duds emptied and some new faces at the training ground things started to change. The football improved, the results kept coming and in the end they walked the Championship.

August 2010 saw the team back in the Premiership and despite being unable to invest heavily in the team saw some good football getting played and some decent results. Notably a 6-0 win over Aston Villa, a Coca-Cola Cup win over Chelsea and a 5-1 drubbing of Sunderland. Admittedly away form was very poor with the Championship winning side but they are currently pushing for a Europa Cup spot rather than considering a relegation battle.

Different job, different team, different league .. I know .. but I can personally confirm that the way that Newcastle played under Hughton and CC was like night and day compared to the previous season.

Hughton may well have been the man in charge but you can be rest assured that assistant managers and coaches will also play a massive part in turning round the fortunes of a club in decline.


Can't get my head round that personally.

hibee_nation
27-01-2011, 10:33 PM
I think CC is the man for the job and he has an able assistant in DA. We just need the club eg RP to hold his nerve and not listen to the doom and gloomers and look long term. We will not go down this season. FACT. We are pash but will stumble through this season and like the phoenix will soar to 10th place next season. :greengrin

greenlex
27-01-2011, 10:48 PM
CC has given everyone in that first team squad barring possibly Stephens a fair chance. Very few of then have taken that chance going by what they did on the park. I dont think there is one of them and particularly the guys out of contract in the Summer could complain if they are not here next season. I belkieve there are several players that have been told they are not in his plans going forward. Some will not be here after Monday because they have been moved on to other clubs on loan or sold. Some will be released. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
There are three new players and another one a distinct possibility. This is the start of CC building his own team. He has to be given time to complete this process.

Onwards and upwards with Calderwoods Hibernian revolution.

Vini1875
27-01-2011, 11:02 PM
Still not convinced about CC, however changing managers again would be nuts. WE must beat St.Mirren and Hamilton, but right now it is hard to see where we are even going to get a goal from.

Surely there must be enough at ER to gets us ahead of St. Mirren and Hamilton.

Hibbyradge
27-01-2011, 11:15 PM
Still not convinced about CC, however changing managers again would be nuts. WE must beat St.Mirren and Hamilton, but right now it is hard to see where we are even going to get a goal from.

Surely there must be enough at ER to gets us ahead of St. Mirren and Hamilton.

We need to avoid losing to Hamilton, then match them after that.

matty_f
27-01-2011, 11:18 PM
I will happily stick my neck out and say that, given time, Calderwood will be the best manager we've had since Mowbray.

We've bottomed out in terms of performances, IMHO. We weren't bad (weren't great, either) against Rangers, and if the players coming in are better suited to what we need than the players they're replacing then it's a case of onwards and upwards as far as I'm concerned.

Huge rebuilding job ahead for Calderwood. Interestingly, he made a point about the signings he'd made at other clubs and how they'd almost universally gone on to do well for the team. Haven't had the time to check that claim, but hopefully in years to come we'll be looking back at his signings and wishing we still had him.

--------
28-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Agree with the OP.

Not only is the squad laced with players of exceedingly limited talent, Hughes managed to set up a situation where all but a very few are on contracts that expire in the summer. So not only does CC have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, he has to wait to find out which particular grains of wheat MIGHT condescend to stay on at Hibs after the summer. And in the meantime somehow get them to apply their minds to playing for Hibs and keeping us in the SPL.

As I say, I cannot recall another time at Hibs when an entire first-team squad was free to leave at the end of a season. How exactly does CC 'plan for the future' in such circumstances? By bringing in some dependable professionals on reasonable long-term deals (which he's doing) and promoting young players whose professional futures are tied up with the club (which he's now starting to do), surely? And in the meantime, persevering in sorting out which if any of the players he inherited are worth offering a renewed contract.

This really is a situation that should have been addressed by the board while Hughes was here - Hughes should have been challenged about why exactly he didn't want to sign anyone beyond the end of this season, and what he thought was going to happen when they all left? I say this because I'm sure that his signings would all have had to be approved by the board (or at least by RP), and the board (or at least RP) must (or should) have know what was going on and heard the alarm bells ringing.

A manager can only motivate those who want or are prepared to be motivated - he can't MAKE a player care. The only way I can see whereby he can break the mind-set of players whose minds are now firmly fixed on their NEXT contract at a different club is by bringing in a few players who DO care, playing them in the side, and hoping that their positive attitude will encourage some and shame others into actually breaking sweat for the club that gives them their current pay-cheques.

It's an unpalatable truth that many don't want to face, but every one of our last four managers can't be a diddy. Indeed, I'm sure that three out of the four are not. Hughes I just can't figure out - the only way I can account for his initial success at Falkirk is by assuming that Latapy had the brains and know-how, and Hughes was the scary guy who made sure the players did what Latas told them to do. Pity we got the scarecrow and not the brains.

Perhaps CC isn't the long-term 'man for the job', but I'm sure we'll never find out if we don't give the man a chance.

In the meantime, he deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him.

Unless anyone knows of a genuine 24-carat solid gold miracle-worker free and available and ready to work for peanuts (cos that's all that will be left if we have to pay CC's severance - not to mention DA...) we need to get our heads around the fact that no one likely to come to ER will be any better than CC - and if that sounds like faint praise, it's not meant that way. Calderwood and Adams are as good a management team as we'll get. A lot better than the hopeless cases who'll be the ONLY candidates if we sack yet another manager. A Hibs manager's shelf-life in the 21st century averages out at 15 months, for crying out loud.

IMO there needs to be a complete change of culture at ER, from the top down. The owner (He Who Must Never Be Blamed) has to demonstrate that he understands that Hibs aren't a museum piece but a working football team. Right now, he's too much like an absentee landlord, with the emphasis on 'absentee'. (If that's an injustice, I apologise right now, but it's how it looks, I'm afraid.) It's not about steel and concrete and balance sheets, Sir Tom - those only matter as a means to the end of getting a successful team playing in front of full stands. The board need to communicate much more effectively with the fans - no offence, but RP's last communique on the official site read like an actuary's report to shareholders. A bit like Churchill in 1940 telling the nation, "We shall endeavour, as far as our resources permit, to prevent Mr Hitler and his associates establishing a bridgehead on our territory; to this we are fully committed, as far as our resources permit..." Nothing about blood, sweat and tears, nothing about fighting them on the beaches and never surrendering, OH NO!

And we fans have to realise that we have no God-given right to success, nor are we somehow a 'special' club or 'special' fans who somehow deserve better than other clubs or fans. There's no quick fix to the mess we're in. We need to accept that. And get behind the manager and his team.

SouthamptonHibs
28-01-2011, 11:42 AM
I think CC is the man for the job and he has an able assistant in DA. We just need the club eg RP to hold his nerve and not listen to the doom and gloomers and look long term. We will not go down this season. FACT. We are pash but will stumble through this season and like the phoenix will soar to 10th place next season. :greengrin

Don't mean to be a doom and gloomer but how can you say FACT to hibs not going down
I can't see a team in the league thats worse than us!
we can't keep clean sheets and we don't look like scoring...
remember CC started NISH on wed i' rather play a lad fi the east stand thats had 4 pints than him....
on the bright side good optimistic post.. i hope your right hail hail GGTTH:flag:

JimBHibees
28-01-2011, 01:03 PM
Agree with the OP.

Not only is the squad laced with players of exceedingly limited talent, Hughes managed to set up a situation where all but a very few are on contracts that expire in the summer. So not only does CC have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, he has to wait to find out which particular grains of wheat MIGHT condescend to stay on at Hibs after the summer. And in the meantime somehow get them to apply their minds to playing for Hibs and keeping us in the SPL.

As I say, I cannot recall another time at Hibs when an entire first-team squad was free to leave at the end of a season. How exactly does CC 'plan for the future' in such circumstances? By bringing in some dependable professionals on reasonable long-term deals (which he's doing) and promoting young players whose professional futures are tied up with the club (which he's now starting to do), surely? And in the meantime, persevering in sorting out which if any of the players he inherited are worth offering a renewed contract.

This really is a situation that should have been addressed by the board while Hughes was here - Hughes should have been challenged about why exactly he didn't want to sign anyone beyond the end of this season, and what he thought was going to happen when they all left? I say this because I'm sure that his signings would all have had to be approved by the board (or at least by RP), and the board (or at least RP) must (or should) have know what was going on and heard the alarm bells ringing.

A manager can only motivate those who want or are prepared to be motivated - he can't MAKE a player care. The only way I can see whereby he can break the mind-set of players whose minds are now firmly fixed on their NEXT contract at a different club is by bringing in a few players who DO care, playing them in the side, and hoping that their positive attitude will encourage some and shame others into actually breaking sweat for the club that gives them their current pay-cheques.

It's an unpalatable truth that many don't want to face, but every one of our last four managers can't be a diddy. Indeed, I'm sure that three out of the four are not. Hughes I just can't figure out - the only way I can account for his initial success at Falkirk is by assuming that Latapy had the brains and know-how, and Hughes was the scary guy who made sure the players did what Latas told them to do. Pity we got the scarecrow and not the brains.

Perhaps CC isn't the long-term 'man for the job', but I'm sure we'll never find out if we don't give the man a chance.

In the meantime, he deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him.

Unless anyone knows of a genuine 24-carat solid gold miracle-worker free and available and ready to work for peanuts (cos that's all that will be left if we have to pay CC's severance - not to mention DA...) we need to get our heads around the fact that no one likely to come to ER will be any better than CC - and if that sounds like faint praise, it's not meant that way. Calderwood and Adams are as good a management team as we'll get. A lot better than the hopeless cases who'll be the ONLY candidates if we sack yet another manager. A Hibs manager's shelf-life in the 21st century averages out at 15 months, for crying out loud.

IMO there needs to be a complete change of culture at ER, from the top down. The owner (He Who Must Never Be Blamed) has to demonstrate that he understands that Hibs aren't a museum piece but a working football team. Right now, he's too much like an absentee landlord, with the emphasis on 'absentee'. (If that's an injustice, I apologise right now, but it's how it looks, I'm afraid.) It's not about steel and concrete and balance sheets, Sir Tom - those only matter as a means to the end of getting a successful team playing in front of full stands. The board need to communicate much more effectively with the fans - no offence, but RP's last communique on the official site read like an actuary's report to shareholders. A bit like Churchill in 1940 telling the nation, "We shall endeavour, as far as our resources permit, to prevent Mr Hitler and his associates establishing a bridgehead on our territory; to this we are fully committed, as far as our resources permit..." Nothing about blood, sweat and tears, nothing about fighting them on the beaches and never surrendering, OH NO!

And we fans have to realise that we have no God-given right to success, nor are we somehow a 'special' club or 'special' fans who somehow deserve better than other clubs or fans. There's no quick fix to the mess we're in. We need to accept that. And get behind the manager and his team.

Fantastic post. Nail on head on so many levels. :thumbsup:

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Personally, I think that CC is coming in for an excessive amount of undue abuse on here.

Lets have a quick look at his recent record.

Going back 2 years .. CC was brought in as first team coach to a Newcastle team filled with overpaid, underperforming duds and heading towards relegation. The team was in dissaray, the club were in dissaray, the fans were in dissaray and managers were coming and going more often than the electric meter was getting read.

In these conditions, it was little wonder that the team was relegated, but you could hardly pin that on CC.

June 2009 saw him moving up to assistant manager as he and Hughton prepared for a season in the Championship. With the first team duds emptied and some new faces at the training ground things started to change. The football improved, the results kept coming and in the end they walked the Championship.

August 2010 saw the team back in the Premiership and despite being unable to invest heavily in the team saw some good football getting played and some decent results. Notably a 6-0 win over Aston Villa, a Coca-Cola Cup win over Chelsea and a 5-1 drubbing of Sunderland. Admittedly away form was very poor with the Championship winning side but they are currently pushing for a Europa Cup spot rather than considering a relegation battle.

Different job, different team, different league .. I know .. but I can personally confirm that the way that Newcastle played under Hughton and CC was like night and day compared to the previous season.

Hughton may well have been the man in charge but you can be rest assured that assistant managers and coaches will also play a massive part in turning round the fortunes of a club in decline.


I will happily stick my neck out and say that, given time, Calderwood will be the best manager we've had since Mowbray.

We've bottomed out in terms of performances, IMHO. We weren't bad (weren't great, either) against Rangers, and if the players coming in are better suited to what we need than the players they're replacing then it's a case of onwards and upwards as far as I'm concerned.

Huge rebuilding job ahead for Calderwood. Interestingly, he made a point about the signings he'd made at other clubs and how they'd almost universally gone on to do well for the team. Haven't had the time to check that claim, but hopefully in years to come we'll be looking back at his signings and wishing we still had him.


Agree with the OP.

Not only is the squad laced with players of exceedingly limited talent, Hughes managed to set up a situation where all but a very few are on contracts that expire in the summer. So not only does CC have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, he has to wait to find out which particular grains of wheat MIGHT condescend to stay on at Hibs after the summer. And in the meantime somehow get them to apply their minds to playing for Hibs and keeping us in the SPL.

As I say, I cannot recall another time at Hibs when an entire first-team squad was free to leave at the end of a season. How exactly does CC 'plan for the future' in such circumstances? By bringing in some dependable professionals on reasonable long-term deals (which he's doing) and promoting young players whose professional futures are tied up with the club (which he's now starting to do), surely? And in the meantime, persevering in sorting out which if any of the players he inherited are worth offering a renewed contract.

This really is a situation that should have been addressed by the board while Hughes was here - Hughes should have been challenged about why exactly he didn't want to sign anyone beyond the end of this season, and what he thought was going to happen when they all left? I say this because I'm sure that his signings would all have had to be approved by the board (or at least by RP), and the board (or at least RP) must (or should) have know what was going on and heard the alarm bells ringing.

A manager can only motivate those who want or are prepared to be motivated - he can't MAKE a player care. The only way I can see whereby he can break the mind-set of players whose minds are now firmly fixed on their NEXT contract at a different club is by bringing in a few players who DO care, playing them in the side, and hoping that their positive attitude will encourage some and shame others into actually breaking sweat for the club that gives them their current pay-cheques.

It's an unpalatable truth that many don't want to face, but every one of our last four managers can't be a diddy. Indeed, I'm sure that three out of the four are not. Hughes I just can't figure out - the only way I can account for his initial success at Falkirk is by assuming that Latapy had the brains and know-how, and Hughes was the scary guy who made sure the players did what Latas told them to do. Pity we got the scarecrow and not the brains.

Perhaps CC isn't the long-term 'man for the job', but I'm sure we'll never find out if we don't give the man a chance.

In the meantime, he deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him.

Unless anyone knows of a genuine 24-carat solid gold miracle-worker free and available and ready to work for peanuts (cos that's all that will be left if we have to pay CC's severance - not to mention DA...) we need to get our heads around the fact that no one likely to come to ER will be any better than CC - and if that sounds like faint praise, it's not meant that way. Calderwood and Adams are as good a management team as we'll get. A lot better than the hopeless cases who'll be the ONLY candidates if we sack yet another manager. A Hibs manager's shelf-life in the 21st century averages out at 15 months, for crying out loud.

And we fans have to realise that we have no God-given right to success, nor are we somehow a 'special' club or 'special' fans who somehow deserve better than other clubs or fans. There's no quick fix to the mess we're in. We need to accept that. And get behind the manager and his team.

Whilst genuinely happy to read these positive threads guys, and delighted to see your full support of the manager (he has my full support as well, I just have serious worries and doubts regarding whether he will fix us), I feel that there are some inconsistencies in your arguments.

Firstly Stevie C, Yogi: Life Before Hibs would have been very positive reading too, and it could be argued that by taking Falkirk to the SPL from the the 1st and keeping them there for 4 seasons, whilst reaching a SC Final, he had achieved more than CC did at Northampton and Forest. Ok, he kept them up on the last day of his last season, but any Falkirk manager's remit will always be to keep them in the SPL when they were there, and he always did.

The previous year's 7th place finish, above a Hearts side with an exhorbitant wage budget and huge playing squad, was a brilliant achievement, and we saw what happened to them after he left. Don't get me wrong, as much as I defended Yogi for the entire second half of last season, by the time he went I felt it was time, as I believed that he wasn't getting the best out of the squad and I believed an astute new manager would have us challenging for a European spot. It's funny how things work out sometimes.

Doddie, I enjoyed reading your very well written and argued post (which i had to shorten to fit my own in!), but you state in bold that CC 'deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him' - surely Hughes, who managed us to 4th place regardless of the Feb-May slump, deserves a lot better too. People slate his signings and blame him entirely for the position that we are in - absurd IMHO (though he must shoulder a certain amount of resonsibility, obviously) - yet conveniently overlook that the one player that we are missing more than anyone (Stokes) was a masterstroke signing by him. We had 6 good months under Hughes and 3 disasterous ones - so far we have just had 3 disasterous ones under CC.

Matty, whilst I admire your bravery in your prediction and the optimistic outlook fo your post, I wish I could share your belief that we have bottomed out. Celtic and Rangers will not have had 2 easier away fixtures at ER in recent times, and I truly cannot see one area where Calderwood has improved us in any way - and I usually manage to see a positive in anything, and have even been accused of being a happy clapper in the past. One of the most encouraging things about CC when he came in was the implication that we would win ugly, and no longer have us as the soft touches of the SPL - sadly, we are losing in the ugliest style imaginable, and with 11 defeats in 15 games, a Scottish Cup defeat to Ayr Utd and no goals in the last 5 games, we are truly getting worse.

I certainly don't think CC is an idiot, nor will I refer to him as disrespectfully as many Hibs supporters did to our last Hibs supporting manager - but sometimes things just don't work out for talented managers at certain clubs, and the more time passes the more convinced I am that CC is in the wrong place at the wrong time. The new signings certainly offer us hope, and I desperately hope that CC turns out be a good manager for us.

The_Sauz
28-01-2011, 02:53 PM
Agree with the OP.

Not only is the squad laced with players of exceedingly limited talent, Hughes managed to set up a situation where all but a very few are on contracts that expire in the summer. So not only does CC have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, he has to wait to find out which particular grains of wheat MIGHT condescend to stay on at Hibs after the summer. And in the meantime somehow get them to apply their minds to playing for Hibs and keeping us in the SPL.

As I say, I cannot recall another time at Hibs when an entire first-team squad was free to leave at the end of a season. How exactly does CC 'plan for the future' in such circumstances? By bringing in some dependable professionals on reasonable long-term deals (which he's doing) and promoting young players whose professional futures are tied up with the club (which he's now starting to do), surely? And in the meantime, persevering in sorting out which if any of the players he inherited are worth offering a renewed contract.

This really is a situation that should have been addressed by the board while Hughes was here - Hughes should have been challenged about why exactly he didn't want to sign anyone beyond the end of this season, and what he thought was going to happen when they all left? I say this because I'm sure that his signings would all have had to be approved by the board (or at least by RP), and the board (or at least RP) must (or should) have know what was going on and heard the alarm bells ringing.

A manager can only motivate those who want or are prepared to be motivated - he can't MAKE a player care. The only way I can see whereby he can break the mind-set of players whose minds are now firmly fixed on their NEXT contract at a different club is by bringing in a few players who DO care, playing them in the side, and hoping that their positive attitude will encourage some and shame others into actually breaking sweat for the club that gives them their current pay-cheques.

It's an unpalatable truth that many don't want to face, but every one of our last four managers can't be a diddy. Indeed, I'm sure that three out of the four are not. Hughes I just can't figure out - the only way I can account for his initial success at Falkirk is by assuming that Latapy had the brains and know-how, and Hughes was the scary guy who made sure the players did what Latas told them to do. Pity we got the scarecrow and not the brains.

Perhaps CC isn't the long-term 'man for the job', but I'm sure we'll never find out if we don't give the man a chance.

In the meantime, he deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him.

Unless anyone knows of a genuine 24-carat solid gold miracle-worker free and available and ready to work for peanuts (cos that's all that will be left if we have to pay CC's severance - not to mention DA...) we need to get our heads around the fact that no one likely to come to ER will be any better than CC - and if that sounds like faint praise, it's not meant that way. Calderwood and Adams are as good a management team as we'll get. A lot better than the hopeless cases who'll be the ONLY candidates if we sack yet another manager. A Hibs manager's shelf-life in the 21st century averages out at 15 months, for crying out loud.

IMO there needs to be a complete change of culture at ER, from the top down. The owner (He Who Must Never Be Blamed) has to demonstrate that he understands that Hibs aren't a museum piece but a working football team. Right now, he's too much like an absentee landlord, with the emphasis on 'absentee'. (If that's an injustice, I apologise right now, but it's how it looks, I'm afraid.) It's not about steel and concrete and balance sheets, Sir Tom - those only matter as a means to the end of getting a successful team playing in front of full stands. The board need to communicate much more effectively with the fans - no offence, but RP's last communique on the official site read like an actuary's report to shareholders. A bit like Churchill in 1940 telling the nation, "We shall endeavour, as far as our resources permit, to prevent Mr Hitler and his associates establishing a bridgehead on our territory; to this we are fully committed, as far as our resources permit..." Nothing about blood, sweat and tears, nothing about fighting them on the beaches and never surrendering, OH NO!

And we fans have to realise that we have no God-given right to success, nor are we somehow a 'special' club or 'special' fans who somehow deserve better than other clubs or fans. There's no quick fix to the mess we're in. We need to accept that. And get behind the manager and his team.


:top marks:aok:

--------
28-01-2011, 04:56 PM
Doddie, I enjoyed reading your very well written and argued post (which i had to shorten to fit my own in!), but you state in bold that CC 'deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him' - surely Hughes, who managed us to 4th place regardless of the Feb-May slump, deserves a lot better too. People slate his signings and blame him entirely for the position that we are in - absurd IMHO (though he must shoulder a certain amount of resonsibility, obviously) - yet conveniently overlook that the one player that we are missing more than anyone (Stokes) was a masterstroke signing by him. We had 6 good months under Hughes and 3 disastrous ones - so far we have just had 3 disastrous ones under CC.




My main criticism of Hughes is that he allowed us to get into the ridiculous situation where 16 first-team squad players all come to the end of their contracts together. This more than anything has made CC's job far harder than it needed to be. As I say - how do you motivate a player who's almost certainly moving on at the end of the season? Unless you're paying them much higher wages than they'd get elsewhere - which we're not able to do.

That, and the fact that he allowed a number of our better younger players to go out on loan when we could well have used them at ER - Booth and Byrne spring immediately to mind, along with Kevin McCann. As for Stokes, if Hughes couldn't see that he had itchy feet for Glasgow's East End, then Hughes was blind as well as daft. And for all the goals he scored, Stokes is a perfect example of the sort of player culture I really would rather not see at ER. We've had better goalscorers than Stokes, and there are as good goalscorers out there still, without the boozing, betting, sleazy baggage Stokes carries with him.

I was also told - by three different people, all of whom I trust - that Hughes working methods were somewhat counter-productive, to say the least. I don't want to go into details - one eye on the admins here - but what I heard makes me very glad he's no longer associated with Hibernian Football Club.

Whether Hughes as a Hibs supporter in his youth or not is beside the point - my understanding is that he actually supported Celtic. My view is that RP should have backed John Collins against the dressing-room rebels; that Mixu came to us one club too early, sadly; and that Hughes was simply the wrong man at any time to manage Hibs. And I say that as one who was taken in by him at the time of his appointment.

This year is my fiftieth year as a Hibee. I have NEVER in that half-century known any club to have allowed itself to get to the place where the vast majority of the experienced playing staff are leaving together at the end of a season, leaving a new manager to somehow motivate them to keep the team from relegation while assessing them to decide who might be offered new contracts and at the same time bringing in necessary new blood to freshen the team.

That this is so today is the responsibility of John Hughes and the board who allowed him to make so many questionable short-term signings.

If any heads are to roll at ER this season, Colin Calderwood's shouldn't be the first. If he's sacked, then the man who appointed him and sacked him HAS to go as well; and I say again - as long as we have an absentee landlord as owner, things will not improve more than marginally. There needs to be real engagement at every level - owner, CEO, board, management, players, and fans - or this mess will happen again, and again, and again, just as it has over the past 20 years.

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 05:29 PM
My main criticism of Hughes is that he allowed us to get into the ridiculous situation where 16 first-team squad players all come to the end of their contracts together. This more than anything has made CC's job far harder than it needed to be. As I say - how do you motivate a player who's almost certainly moving on at the end of the season? Unless you're paying them much higher wages than they'd get elsewhere - which we're not able to do.

That, and the fact that he allowed a number of our better younger players to go out on loan when we could well have used them at ER - Booth and Byrne spring immediately to mind, along with Kevin McCann. As for Stokes, if Hughes couldn't see that he had itchy feet for Glasgow's East End, then Hughes was blind as well as daft. And for all the goals he scored, Stokes is a perfect example of the sort of player culture I really would rather not see at ER. We've had better goalscorers than Stokes, and there are as good goalscorers out there still, without the boozing, betting, sleazy baggage Stokes carries with him.

I was also told - by three different people, all of whom I trust - that Hughes working methods were somewhat counter-productive, to say the least. I don't want to go into details - one eye on the admins here - but what I heard makes me very glad he's no longer associated with Hibernian Football Club.

Whether Hughes as a Hibs supporter in his youth or not is beside the point - my understanding is that he actually supported Celtic. My view is that RP should have backed John Collins against the dressing-room rebels; that Mixu came to us one club too early, sadly; and that Hughes was simply the wrong man at any time to manage Hibs. And I say that as one who was taken in by him at the time of his appointment.

This year is my fiftieth year as a Hibee. I have NEVER in that half-century known any club to have allowed itself to get to the place where the vast majority of the experienced playing staff are leaving together at the end of a season, leaving a new manager to somehow motivate them to keep the team from relegation while assessing them to decide who might be offered new contracts and at the same time bringing in necessary new blood to freshen the team.

That this is so today is the responsibility of John Hughes and the board who allowed him to make so many questionable short-term signings.

If any heads are to roll at ER this season, Colin Calderwood's shouldn't be the first. If he's sacked, then the man who appointed him and sacked him HAS to go as well; and I say again - as long as we have an absentee landlord as owner, things will not improve more than marginally. There needs to be real engagement at every level - owner, CEO, board, management, players, and fans - or this mess will happen again, and again, and again, just as it has over the past 20 years.

Another very interesting post Doddie, and I can therefore understand why you feel like you do.

I just feel that people are making allowances for Calderwood that should have been made for Yogi - and I too speak as someone who was happy when he was appointed and whilst reticent to say I was happy when he left, I did feel it was for the benefit of the club at the time.

I think it's important to remember that Yogi left in September, 9 months before these 16 players' contracts will expire - still plenty time to enter into negotiations with anyone that he wanted to keep. He gave everyone a chance in his first season, and for the first 6 months the response was great - I think he made a mistake last season by saying that not many would be leaving in the summer, and that resulted in many taking their foot of the pedal.

After our spectacular collapse last year (of which he must shoulder much responsibility also, obviously), I can imagine that he saw nothing wrong in allowing many of these players play for their futures. To be fair, in your 50 years as a Hibs supporter, the Bosman has only been in place for around 15 of them, and the power shifted so far in favour of the players that we now have situations where players sign 4 year contracts, then have them renegotiated a season later when they play at a level expected of them in the first place. I see nothing wrong in allowing players to play for their future.

And this is a point which I still struggle to comprehend - how can players who either want to stay or leave not be motivated by the prospect of impressing new employers or being rewarded with a new contract? How often in the past have we seen players at every club perform for a few months before their contract is up to secure a new one or a move elsewhere? This should have worked in our favour, and I (whilst I respect the information re: Yogi that you have alluded to)don't buy into the idea that Yogi has ruined this group of players useless for CC - he should be able to get these guys going too. If you can't motivate a player playing for his future at a club fighting for survival, the blame must be equal on both party's sides I believe. But, IF the players being out of contract is the problem, then surely CC is not helping the situation by telling McBride he has NO future, and then playing him in every game since.

Yogi was honest about Hibs being nowhere near where he wanted us to be, and said that we'd just have to trust him whatever he did. Ultimately we did not trust him, after an horrendous run of results, despite the 6 good months before that. Yet, many trust CC fully despite the fact that not only have we not improved at all under him, we have got much worse - the horrendous run has come at the start of his tenure. We are affording CC the time that really should (in wonderful hinsight) probably have been afforded Hughes, given how things have worked out thus far. Poor as we were, I saw more of a pattern to our play under Yogi this season than I have under the majority of CC's reign. Let's hope these new signings can get us going.

FWIW, I fully agree re: the backing of Collins in the player revolt (though RP may have had no choice in entertaining them to a degree), and I throroughly resent the fact that a bunch of selfish individuals ruined what had the potential to be a landmark season for Hibs. And I'd rather Stokes was still here but there's no point stretching that one out further.

StevieC
28-01-2011, 06:07 PM
Firstly Stevie C, Yogi: Life Before Hibs would have been very positive reading too

I agree, and he was given every opportunity to succeed.
Yogi's gone though, this is a thread for those that think CC should be given a chance to turn things around.


We had 6 good months under Hughes and 3 disasterous ones - so far we have just had 3 disasterous ones under CC.

Strange how folk see things differently. I would have said we had 4 good months (during which time we rode our luck with more than a couple of results) and then it was all downhill from there.

For me the "3 diasterous months" are a continuation of the way the club has been run down and the current mindset throughout the team.

It's a bit like grabbing into the back of a runaway train and having to slow it down first before you can get it moving in the opposite direction. :wink:


Matty, whilst I admire your bravery in your prediction and the optimistic outlook fo your post, I wish I could share your belief that we have bottomed out. Celtic and Rangers will not have had 2 easier away fixtures at ER in recent times

And Celtic wont have had an easier game at Parkhead than they did on Wednesday (with the exception of Aberdeen under McGhee) and yet Hearts are running away with 3rd place. You're not honestly judging a manager on his results against the Old Firm? And if you are, have you conveniently forgotten the game at Ibrox?


I certainly don't think CC is an idiot, nor will I refer to him as disrespectfully as many Hibs supporters did to our last Hibs supporting manager - but sometimes things just don't work out for talented managers at certain clubs, and the more time passes the more convinced I am that CC is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It seems to me that you are saying that he's a talented manager but that, despite this, he should be shown the door because he cant provide an immediate fix for someone else's mistakes?

:dunno:

StevieC
28-01-2011, 06:27 PM
Yogi was honest about Hibs being nowhere near where he wanted us to be, and said that we'd just have to trust him whatever he did. Ultimately we did not trust him, after an horrendous run of results, despite the 6 good months before that. Yet, many trust CC fully despite the fact that not only have we not improved at all under him, we have got much worse - the horrendous run has come at the start of his tenure. We are affording CC the time that really should (in wonderful hinsight) probably have been afforded Hughes, given how things have worked out thus far. Poor as we were, I saw more of a pattern to our play under Yogi this season than I have under the majority of CC's reign. Let's hope these new signings can get us going.

Yogi's gone .. get over it.

CC could have left things unchanged and we might well have been a few goals and a couple of points better off, but he's decided to change things around and have a look at as many players as he can in a proper match situation. Seems a sensible thing to do if you are needing to make wholesale changes to a squad that, in all likelyhood, is going to be somewhere else next season. Certainly seems more sensible than making decisions based on bounce games and fixtures against Newcastle reserves.

As far as I'm concerned, this is his starting point. He's at least had the opportunity to bring in a few players (although, to be fair, he's stiull lumnbered with a lot of dead wood) so lets see if he can try and get them to gel over the next few weeks.

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 06:37 PM
I agree, and he was given every opportunity to succeed.
Yogi's gone though, this is a thread for those that think CC should be given a chance to turn things around.

Wouldn't say he was given every opportunity, but fair enough - let's move on.



Strange how folk see things differently. I would have said we had 4 good months (during which time we rode our luck with more than a couple of results) and then it was all downhill from there.

For me the "3 diasterous months" are a continuation of the way the club has been run down and the current mindset throughout the team.

It's a bit like grabbing into the back of a runaway train and having to slow it down first before you can get it moving in the opposite direction. :wink:

Well the disasterous run began on Feb 14 2010, when we lost 3-0 at Ibrox (after playing pretty well too). We ended January with 9 points in a week against Hamilton and St. Mirren at home, and Celtic away. Your runaway train analogy is a good one - alas, the train has only picked up more momentum since CC's arrival, there are no signs of it slowing down at all. No goals in 5 games says the train is accelerating faster then ever.


And Celtic wont have had an easier game at Parkhead than they did on Wednesday (with the exception of Aberdeen under McGhee) and yet Hearts are running away with 3rd place. You're not honestly judging a manager on his results against the Old Firm? And if you are, have you conveniently forgotten the game at Ibrox?

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything, and of course I'm not judging him on results against the OF - I was just pointing out how little we performed and how little fight we showed in those games. Celtic needed last minute goals at Hamilton and St. Mirren for a draw and a win respectively. Even during Yogi's disasterous run towards the end of last season, the OF won tight 1-0 games at ER.


It seems to me that you are saying that he's a talented manager but that, despite this, he should be shown the door because he cant provide an immediate fix for someone else's mistakes?

:dunno:

I don't seem to be saying anything, I am saying exactly what is written in my post - that whatever skills and abilities CC displayed at Forest and Northampton to achieve success, clearly aren't working yet. They may not at all, but that doesn't mean he couldn't go on elsewhere and enjoy success again. And an immediate fix? That would be Calderwood leading us to 4th again - he's broken us even more at the moment. He will continue to receive my full support, and I truly, truly hope that he turns things around obviously. But I'm as entitled to have my doubts as much as you've every right to firmly believe that he will turn this around. Evidence thus far suggests that he won't. Again, I hope more than anything that he defies that evidence.

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Yogi's gone .. get over it.

CC could have left things unchanged and we might well have been a few goals and a couple of points better off, but he's decided to change things around and have a look at as many players as he can in a proper match situation. Seems a sensible thing to do if you are needing to make wholesale changes to a squad that, in all likelyhood, is going to be somewhere else next season. Certainly seems more sensible than making decisions based on bounce games and fixtures against Newcastle reserves.

As far as I'm concerned, this is his starting point. He's at least had the opportunity to bring in a few players (although, to be fair, he's stiull lumnbered with a lot of dead wood) so lets see if he can try and get them to gel over the next few weeks.

I'm well over it and, again, wasn't unhappy when he left.

Fair enough, defend CC all you want - I'm not going to knock you for that. But neither am I prepared to write off his first FIFTEEN games in charge, or believe that he has had any positive effect on our situation since our arrival. Let's hope the new signings can make things happen.

nortonhibby
28-01-2011, 06:54 PM
I'm well over it and, again, wasn't unhappy when he left.

Fair enough, defend CC all you want - I'm not going to knock you for that. But neither am I prepared to write off his first FIFTEEN games in charge, or believe that he has had any positive effect on our situation since our arrival. Let's hope the new signings can make things happen.


I For one am prepared for defeat on Sunday however the big test is the games in Feb if we can pick up maximum points from the Feb Schedule we will be fine and CC Will be able to get things going.

StevieC
28-01-2011, 07:14 PM
Fair enough, defend CC all you want - I'm not going to knock you for that. But neither am I prepared to write off his first FIFTEEN games in charge, or believe that he has had any positive effect on our situation since our arrival. Let's hope the new signings can make things happen.

What's to defend? He's working with someone else's dross.
Infact, at the moment he's working with the team assembled by this guy Yogi you keep harping on about.

He's given the players the opportunity to perform, and I think we can all see quite clearly that they haven't. Now that he knows where he stands he can start working towards replacing the players that need emptied and strengthening positions that require it. Some of that will be done in this transfer window, some of it in the next. Either way it's going to be the start of next season before he can truly say it's his team.

If you want to keep looking for a scapegoat for recent results then you need to go find the previous manager.

hibs0666
28-01-2011, 07:26 PM
Fair enough, defend CC all you want

There's nothing to defend. :confused:

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 07:48 PM
What's to defend? He's working with someone else's dross.
Infact, at the moment he's working with the team assembled by this guy Yogi you keep harping on about.

He's given the players the opportunity to perform, and I think we can all see quite clearly that they haven't. Now that he knows where he stands he can start working towards replacing the players that need emptied and strengthening positions that require it. Some of that will be done in this transfer window, some of it in the next. Either way it's going to be the start of next season before he can truly say it's his team.

If you want to keep looking for a scapegoat for recent results then you need to go find the previous manager.

I'm not harping on about anyone, nor am I looking for a scapegoat, as you clearly are. I've made it abundantly clear from my first post in this thread that I was happy when Yogi went - all I've pointed out is that the same reasons that people believe that Calderwood should be afforded more time, could have been reasonably argued for Hughes too - with the essential difference being that Hughes at least had a period of relative success for the first period of his reign.

And for someone who stated to me "Yogi's gone, get over it" it sounds like you need to. Who is responsible for our current predicament? Everyone at the club, Calderwood very much included.

BEEJ
28-01-2011, 07:51 PM
And this is a point which I still struggle to comprehend - how can players who either want to stay or leave not be motivated by the prospect of impressing new employers or being rewarded with a new contract? How often in the past have we seen players at every club perform for a few months before their contract is up to secure a new one or a move elsewhere? This should have worked in our favour,
It's a question of scale and how such player transitions affect team dynamics.

In the normal situation of two or three players out of contract at the end of the season (10% to 15% of a typical squad) they might well react as you describe. These players can focus on playing their very best within a team the majority of whom have a longer-term future with the club and who therefore have a vested interest in its success. Those proportions work.

Put a team out where 7 of the 11 are out of contract in six months' time and the psychology and motivation is quite different. You are certainly unlikely to have the same sense of team spirit and of 'being in this together'. This is what has been missing of late.

I'd like to think lessons have been learned from this and that we never get ourselves into this fix again. In fact it's interesting to note that the three players so far signed have been given contracts of 18 months, 30 months and 42 months. :wink:

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 08:01 PM
It's a question of scale and how such player transitions affect team dynamics.

In the normal situation of two or three players out of contract at the end of the season (10% to 15% of a typical squad) they might well react as you describe. These players can focus on playing their very best within a team the majority of whom have a longer-term future with the club and who therefore have a vested interest in its success. Those proportions work.

Put a team out where 7 of the 11 are out of contract in six months' time and the psychology and motivation is quite different. You are certainly unlikely to have the same sense of team spirit and of 'being in this together'. This is what has been missing of late.

I'd like to think lessons have been learned from this and that we never get ourselves into this fix again. In fact it's interesting to note that the three players so far signed have been given contracts of 18 months, 30 months and 42 months. :wink:

You construct a fair argument, well reasoned - but in this context, where is the logic in telling McBride he has no future at Hibs, then making him a first team regular?

greenlex
28-01-2011, 08:06 PM
You construct a fair argument, well reasoned - but in this context, where is the logic in telling McBride he has no future at Hibs, then making him a first team regular?
When was he told that?:confused:

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 08:42 PM
When was he told that?:confused:

At the start of the year: -

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/McBride-won39t-let-uncertainty-dilute.6687728.jp

StevieC
28-01-2011, 08:52 PM
I'm not harping on about anyone, nor am I looking for a scapegoat, as you clearly are.

:confused:


And for someone who stated to me "Yogi's gone, get over it" it sounds like you need to.

:faf:

greenlex
28-01-2011, 08:57 PM
At the start of the year: -

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/McBride-won39t-let-uncertainty-dilute.6687728.jp
Strange one right enough. I can only assume that the signings we have made this week were lined up for nearer the beginning of the window but hit the infamous "stumbling Blocks" so McBride was asked to enter the breach as he said he was happy to do in the article.

Stevie Reid
28-01-2011, 09:09 PM
:confused:

Well...


If you want to keep looking for a scapegoat for recent results then you need to go find the previous manager.


:faf:

Sound. I'm happy to leave it there if it's getting to this point.

StevieC
28-01-2011, 09:13 PM
I'm happy to leave it there if it's getting to this point.

Probably best to.

BEEJ
28-01-2011, 10:08 PM
I can only assume that the signings we have made this week were lined up for nearer the beginning of the window but hit the infamous "stumbling Blocks" so McBride was asked to enter the breach as he said he was happy to do in the article.
:agree: That's how I'd read it.

I've never thought for a moment since reading that article that CC had changed his mind about McBride.

--------
29-01-2011, 12:34 AM
It's a question of scale and how such player transitions affect team dynamics.

In the normal situation of two or three players out of contract at the end of the season (10% to 15% of a typical squad) they might well react as you describe. These players can focus on playing their very best within a team the majority of whom have a longer-term future with the club and who therefore have a vested interest in its success. Those proportions work.

Put a team out where 7 of the 11 are out of contract in six months' time and the psychology and motivation is quite different. You are certainly unlikely to have the same sense of team spirit and of 'being in this together'. This is what has been missing of late.

I'd like to think lessons have been learned from this and that we never get ourselves into this fix again. In fact it's interesting to note that the three players so far signed have been given contracts of 18 months, 30 months and 42 months. :wink:


This is exactly the point, BEEJ. :agree:

I can't recollect any other occasion when a club has allowed as many members of the first-team squad to go out of contract all at the same time as we have this season.

Totally agree with your last para. :agree:

calumb
29-01-2011, 02:41 AM
This thread is great reading with lots of valid points.
Stevie Reid made the point about there being no real improvement in the team since CC's arrival, which is probably correct but maybe the slump this team has been in for the best part of a year has virtually made it impossible to lift the team to achieve any type of performance.

CC's when questioned pre the transfer window opening said he did not expect to make any significant changes to the team, this would have been after the Rangers game at Ibrox and Motherwell at home which looked like giving some glimmer hope that a corner was being turned. I believe he had assessed the squad on the training ground and thought that he had good enough players at the club to turn things around, which we do have.

The fact that the players themselves appear paralyzed to change what is going on has forced his hand to bring in new players and this is what has disapointed me most about his time in charge. I am not criticizing the players he has brought in as i feel they might be just the type we need but more the route they arrived, i believed that CC would come in and assess the squad and realise its shortcomings and then with his vast experience in the English leagues and especially the lower leagues start the rebuild, but what did we get -

Scott - he is straight from Adams

Towell - apparently saw him once in a bounce game and thought he'll do.

Thornhill- ok he worked with him the past but he did come through the clubs youth policy so would have been presumably been scouted before he came along.

Palsson - not sure about how he came here, but listening to CC on being asked what Palsson would bring to the team on the Hiberniantv interview he did not appear to be able to answer the question other than to say more of what he saw in the bounce game he played, which would suggest to me he is not a player he has been watching for any length of time or paid any paticular attention to say during his Newcastle days.


I hope i am being hard on him and maybe i am, maybe the players he knows were all unavailable but i remain unconvinced on his ability to attract players here, the whole thing has the same feel as when Collins was picking up players at trial games being arranged by agents ( noubussie and curier)
This is going to be vital because come the summer he going to have to find virtually a whole team and this worries me.

Callum_62
29-01-2011, 04:13 AM
but what did we get -

Scott - he is straight from Adams

Towell - apparently saw him once in a bounce game and thought he'll do.

Thornhill- ok he worked with him the past but he did come through the clubs youth policy so would have been presumably been scouted before he came along.

Palsson - not sure about how he came here, but listening to CC on being asked what Palsson would bring to the team on the Hiberniantv interview he did not appear to be able to answer the question other than to say more of what he saw in the bounce game he played, which would suggest to me he is not a player he has been watching for any length of time or paid any paticular attention to say during his Newcastle days.


I hope i am being hard on him and maybe i am, maybe the players he knows were all unavailable but i remain unconvinced on his ability to attract players here, the whole thing has the same feel as when Collins was picking up players at trial games being arranged by agents ( noubussie and curier)
This is going to be vital because come the summer he going to have to find virtually a whole team and this worries me.

I believe CC has alsways been quiet coy with the press; partly, not to put undue pressue on some of the young guys he has signed.

Also, January is alway sknown as a hard time to sign the players you really want - we have signed almost 1/3 of a new team with a few days left - and most of them reasonably rated.

I aint complaining.

calumb
29-01-2011, 04:28 AM
I believe CC has alsways been quiet coy with the press; partly, not to put undue pressue on some of the young guys he has signed.

Also, January is alway sknown as a hard time to sign the players you really want - we have signed almost 1/3 of a new team with a few days left - and most of them reasonably rated.

I aint complaining.


Hopefully he is being coy, i am still trying to work him out but i sometimes get a bad feeling he doesnt know what he is talking about. He talked about in another interview about a young hibs player going of to play for scotland at youth level and called him "David whatshis name".

At least he's the complete opposite to Yogi who would tell anyone who would listen Our tatics for the next match and with regards to signing players it he cant be any worse than mixu in signing players based on a DVD

.Whitey.
29-01-2011, 10:57 AM
Don't mean to be a doom and gloomer but how can you say FACT to hibs not going down
I can't see a team in the league thats worse than us!
we can't keep clean sheets and we don't look like scoring...
remember CC started NISH on wed i' rather play a lad fi the east stand thats had 4 pints than him....
on the bright side good optimistic post.. i hope your right hail hail GGTTH:flag:


That is me :greengrin

Fifer
29-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Agree with the OP.

Not only is the squad laced with players of exceedingly limited talent, Hughes managed to set up a situation where all but a very few are on contracts that expire in the summer. So not only does CC have to sort out the wheat from the chaff, he has to wait to find out which particular grains of wheat MIGHT condescend to stay on at Hibs after the summer. And in the meantime somehow get them to apply their minds to playing for Hibs and keeping us in the SPL.

As I say, I cannot recall another time at Hibs when an entire first-team squad was free to leave at the end of a season. How exactly does CC 'plan for the future' in such circumstances? By bringing in some dependable professionals on reasonable long-term deals (which he's doing) and promoting young players whose professional futures are tied up with the club (which he's now starting to do), surely? And in the meantime, persevering in sorting out which if any of the players he inherited are worth offering a renewed contract.

This really is a situation that should have been addressed by the board while Hughes was here - Hughes should have been challenged about why exactly he didn't want to sign anyone beyond the end of this season, and what he thought was going to happen when they all left? I say this because I'm sure that his signings would all have had to be approved by the board (or at least by RP), and the board (or at least RP) must (or should) have know what was going on and heard the alarm bells ringing.

A manager can only motivate those who want or are prepared to be motivated - he can't MAKE a player care. The only way I can see whereby he can break the mind-set of players whose minds are now firmly fixed on their NEXT contract at a different club is by bringing in a few players who DO care, playing them in the side, and hoping that their positive attitude will encourage some and shame others into actually breaking sweat for the club that gives them their current pay-cheques.

It's an unpalatable truth that many don't want to face, but every one of our last four managers can't be a diddy. Indeed, I'm sure that three out of the four are not. Hughes I just can't figure out - the only way I can account for his initial success at Falkirk is by assuming that Latapy had the brains and know-how, and Hughes was the scary guy who made sure the players did what Latas told them to do. Pity we got the scarecrow and not the brains.

Perhaps CC isn't the long-term 'man for the job', but I'm sure we'll never find out if we don't give the man a chance.

In the meantime, he deserves a heck of a lot better than some of us have been handing out to him.

Unless anyone knows of a genuine 24-carat solid gold miracle-worker free and available and ready to work for peanuts (cos that's all that will be left if we have to pay CC's severance - not to mention DA...) we need to get our heads around the fact that no one likely to come to ER will be any better than CC - and if that sounds like faint praise, it's not meant that way. Calderwood and Adams are as good a management team as we'll get. A lot better than the hopeless cases who'll be the ONLY candidates if we sack yet another manager. A Hibs manager's shelf-life in the 21st century averages out at 15 months, for crying out loud.

IMO there needs to be a complete change of culture at ER, from the top down. The owner (He Who Must Never Be Blamed) has to demonstrate that he understands that Hibs aren't a museum piece but a working football team. Right now, he's too much like an absentee landlord, with the emphasis on 'absentee'. (If that's an injustice, I apologise right now, but it's how it looks, I'm afraid.) It's not about steel and concrete and balance sheets, Sir Tom - those only matter as a means to the end of getting a successful team playing in front of full stands. The board need to communicate much more effectively with the fans - no offence, but RP's last communique on the official site read like an actuary's report to shareholders. A bit like Churchill in 1940 telling the nation, "We shall endeavour, as far as our resources permit, to prevent Mr Hitler and his associates establishing a bridgehead on our territory; to this we are fully committed, as far as our resources permit..." Nothing about blood, sweat and tears, nothing about fighting them on the beaches and never surrendering, OH NO!

And we fans have to realise that we have no God-given right to success, nor are we somehow a 'special' club or 'special' fans who somehow deserve better than other clubs or fans. There's no quick fix to the mess we're in. We need to accept that. And get behind the manager and his team.

Excellent post :top marks. GGTTH :flag::flag::flag:

PaulSmith
29-01-2011, 11:32 AM
Scott - he is straight from Adams

Towell - apparently saw him once in a bounce game and thought he'll do.

Thornhill- ok he worked with him the past but he did come through the clubs youth policy so would have been presumably been scouted before he came along.

Palsson - not sure about how he came here, but listening to CC on being asked what Palsson would bring to the team on the Hiberniantv interview he did not appear to be able to answer the question other than to say more of what he saw in the bounce game he played, which would suggest to me he is not a player he has been watching for any length of time or paid any paticular attention to say during his Newcastle days.

Scott - CC said that one of the first games he saw in Scotland was Ross County and this was prior to Adams coming. Scott seemingly was then high on CC's agenda and of course asked Adams about him.

Towell - I think your right here.

Thornhill - Known from Forest. not a bad thing

Palsson - CC said that he was a player that had been on the radar for a long period of time.


I'm not going to lie and say that these guys will keep us up nor can anyone say with a degree of fact whether they will or won't. I do understand why we need some younger hungrier players right now but I also want this complimented with a proven goalscorer.

The Board did state that funds were available for CC to use in the transfer market and if we sell Zemamma for £250k plus Bamba for £200k then we're still well up.