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Disco Dave
27-01-2011, 12:55 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

Bad Martini
27-01-2011, 12:58 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:

truehibernian
27-01-2011, 01:07 AM
John Hughes is the very reason we are in the situation we are in.

Signed duds, injury prone journeymen, bully, no signs of bringing in youth, terrible inside indiscipline, favourites who disrupted dressing room..........the single most important reason for our current predicament.

When an articulate and grounded pro like Ian Murray says that CC is a "breath of fresh air" you listen........Hughes was a one trick pony, from a club who had never battled out the top 6........you pay for a Falkirk manager, you get a Falkirk team/performance.............that's where we are due to him. His luck ran out after roughly the 5-1 Saints game........

CC is replacing a midfield of late 20 year old one paced footballers, with younger, fitter, more energetic footballers. Same with the full backs. It's good to see but a long time coming. His stance with the keepers tells it's own story.......none are good enough......end of !

The last piece of the jigsaw will be getting a decent striker in place of the imposter that is Nish, and some experience at the back central pairing.

Hughes set this club back two years...............worst manager in a very very long time IMHO.

PONGO
27-01-2011, 08:08 AM
There was unrest in the dressingroom before John Hughes arrived . At least he showed passion.

matty_f
27-01-2011, 08:14 AM
We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:

We were absolutely murder by the time collins left, shan squad players playing shan football. The fitness thing is over-played as well, imho. The team that played last night were as fit as any of collins' players imho. Collins just talked about the fitness more.
We were going backwards fast under jc, he knew it too and that's why he jacked it, imho.

micksoo
27-01-2011, 08:19 AM
Judge Calderwood once his signings are in the team and the deadwood had been cleared. He was left a mess and must be given a chance.

hibeemikey21
27-01-2011, 08:26 AM
John Hughes is the very reason we are in the situation we are in.

Signed duds, injury prone journeymen, bully, no signs of bringing in youth, terrible inside indiscipline, favourites who disrupted dressing room..........the single most important reason for our current predicament.

When an articulate and grounded pro like Ian Murray says that CC is a "breath of fresh air" you listen........Hughes was a one trick pony, from a club who had never battled out the top 6........you pay for a Falkirk manager, you get a Falkirk team/performance.............that's where we are due to him. His luck ran out after roughly the 5-1 Saints game........

CC is replacing a midfield of late 20 year old one paced footballers, with younger, fitter, more energetic footballers. Same with the full backs. It's good to see but a long time coming. His stance with the keepers tells it's own story.......none are good enough......end of !

The last piece of the jigsaw will be getting a decent striker in place of the imposter that is Nish, and some experience at the back central pairing.

Hughes set this club back two years...............worst manager in a very very long time IMHO.

Agree with almost all of this. The only bit thats a bit contentious is re the keepers. Dont really think Brown's dropping was merited and i think he is good enough.

I really don't want to see Calderwood forced out before he can ship out the dross and bring in his own players. Any manager in the world would recognise that this current squad is broken beyond repair. I would regard this time, prior to the end of the transfer window, perhaps even to the end of the season (depending on the generosity of the board) as the "weathering the storm" period for Calderwood. I really can't see how sacking him would help the situation. It would inevitably just lead to another budget appointment who would also struggle with this current team.

scoopyboy
27-01-2011, 08:59 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

You are 100% correct, we would be 12th.

Beefster
27-01-2011, 08:59 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

Get my Granny on the pitch. We wouldn't be in trouble if she was a regular starter.

See, we can all say mince that can't be justified.

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-01-2011, 09:01 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

That is true to a degree. If Hughes had still been here we would be more or less down.

bighairyfaeleith
27-01-2011, 09:03 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

Possibly the most ridiculous post this year. I reckon come december it will still be up there:greengrin

Saorsa
27-01-2011, 09:05 AM
No thanks

SMAXXA
27-01-2011, 09:08 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

You had that crystal ball out again?! Its rediculas to even say that :confused:

Andy74
27-01-2011, 09:13 AM
It's also ridiculous to say we'd be down here with him. We were playing better before.

Speedway
27-01-2011, 09:19 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

So just to confirm, you're looking to replace 'Clueless' and 'Tactically Inept' Calderwood with 'Clueless' 'Tactically Inept' 'Buffoon' 'Clown' 'GTF' Hughes, Yes?

matty_f
27-01-2011, 09:25 AM
It's also ridiculous to say we'd be down here with him. We were playing better before.

I really don't think we were Andy, and I backed Yogi for a long time. We were chronic to watch for ages, I thought that once he had the summer to get in some other players we'd improve, but we actually got worse!

khib70
27-01-2011, 09:26 AM
We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:
:agree::top marks

Andy74
27-01-2011, 09:28 AM
I really don't think we were Andy, and I backed Yogi for a long time. We were chronic to watch for ages, I thought that once he had the summer to get in some other players we'd improve, but we actually got worse!

A different lot of problems. We made and missed chances galore early season. We do nothing at all now.

matty_f
27-01-2011, 09:30 AM
A different lot of problems. We made and missed chances galore early season. We do nothing at all now.

We didn't miss chances galore, really - we missed one open goal against the Huns, but created not a lot else in that game, and it was a similar story elsewhere, where our best chances were coming from penalties.

We created as much against Motherwell last week as we did early season, and probably as many chances as we have all season when we drew with Utd 2-2.

Kato
27-01-2011, 09:42 AM
It's also ridiculous to say we'd be down here with him.


Why? Why is it so ridiculous? Hughes is the worst thing that has ever happened to Hibs in my time supporting the club.

A complete buffoon from day one, maybe even before.

Iain G
27-01-2011, 09:44 AM
Getting Yogi back would be a BooBoo, there, done, someone had to say it, the elephant in the room has gone, back to the discussions, nothing to see here, move along now... :agree::wink:

Betty Boop
27-01-2011, 09:54 AM
:agree::top marks

x2 :greengrin

heretoday
27-01-2011, 10:06 AM
Get Mixu back! And tell him to bring his team with him!

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 10:08 AM
Judge Calderwood once his signings are in the team and the deadwood had been cleared. He was left a mess and must be given a chance.

Great, we get another manager who cant manage anyone else's players. Hibs have a cheque book manager again. :faf:

--------
27-01-2011, 10:09 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!


And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Hughes might have taken us down, Calderwood was signed to save us from that. Now i hear he has to be able to bring his own players in before we can see any improvement. I thought managers were brought to the club to manage, not just buy their way out of trouble?:confused:

When Calderwood fails, we will then get someone else in, who will need to get his players in before we will see an improvement. It was the same with Collins and Mixu. :rolleyes:

James70
27-01-2011, 10:20 AM
Looking back now I would say we were wrong to get rid of Mixu when we did and I will hold my hands up and admit I was one of the thousands that wanted him to go.

We had been spoilt with the attacking football under Mowbray and the short term success under Collins so when we were subjected to the long ball game and the boring football that went with it the fans rebelled and the Board gave in.

However under Mixu we at least had a defence and a team spirit with battling qualities. ok, it wasn't at all pretty to watch but we were in nothing like the mess we now find ourselves.

I wonder how many fans would settle for that now, ugly football but half decent results?

khib70
27-01-2011, 10:40 AM
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall
Absolutely spot on Doddie:top marks I really can't believe some of the garbage I was hearing last night and reading on here today.

Apparently, Calderwood doesn't care because he doesn't jump up and down like an eejit and shout abuse at the players. He even (burn the witch!) had the affrontery to be drinking a cup of coffee last week. A cup of coffee!!!

Aye, bring back Yogi, after all, he's from Leith, eh?

offshorehibby
27-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Hughes is part of the reason we are 3 pts of bottom.

Golden Bear
27-01-2011, 10:45 AM
For the sake of repeating myself ------- the REAL problem is the total mince on the park and there's not a Manager out there who could gel them into a half decent team.

The quicker the vast majority of them are shipped out the better. Then, and only then, can we make a judgement on Colin Calderwood.

--------
27-01-2011, 10:47 AM
Hughes might have taken us down, Calderwood was signed to save us from that. Now i hear he has to be able to bring his own players in before we can see any improvement. I thought managers were brought to the club to manage, not just buy their way out of trouble?:confused:

When Calderwood fails, we will then get someone else in, who will need to get his players in before we will see an improvement. It was the same with Collins and Mixu. :rolleyes:

I think there's a lot more wrong with this club than meets the eye, bh.

Not just the manager. Probably NOT the manager, period.

But either the players are good enough, which means it's all down to Calderwood and the OP's right about Hughes, or they aren't good enough, in which case Calderwood has to be allowed to do something to rectify the matter - which means replacing players who aren't good enough - or who aren't capable of doing the jobs he asking them to do - with players who can.

Are you seriously saying that the squad of players Calderwood has at his disposal right now - ignoring the three new guys, because according to you, he shouldn't have needed to bring them in - are you seriously saying that right now CC has an acceptable squad of players to meet the demands of the fans and the board?

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 10:47 AM
For the sake of repeating myself ------- the REAL problem is the total mince on the park and there's not a Manager out there who could gel them into a half decent team.

The quicker the vast majority of them are shipped out the better. Then, and only then, can we make a judgement on Colin Calderwood.

What was the point in appointing a new manager, if it was not to improve us?

Wilson
27-01-2011, 10:50 AM
What was the point in appointing a new manager, if it was not to improve us?

Where is it written that the path to improvement has to be a sprint and not a marathon?

If you spend a couple of months polishing a turd what would you expect to end up with?

GreenCastle
27-01-2011, 10:51 AM
Not this again...
:yawn:

Golden Bear
27-01-2011, 10:52 AM
What was the point in appointing a new manager, if it was not to improve us?

Yogi's duffers should have been sacked at the same time as Yogi.

But unfortunately we're stuck with them and therein lies the root of the problem.
Yogi talked a good game and is passionate about the club but that's not enough.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Where is it written that the path to improvement has to be a sprint and not a marathon?

If you spend a couple of months polishing a turd what would you expect to end up with?

I thought the argument about getting rid of Hughes was he spoke terrible, his tactics were poor. He had no plan B and was a bully. The team was good enough, 99% of folk said that, all we needed was a manager who knew what he was doing. that argument has changed now? Strange eh?

Disc O'Dave
27-01-2011, 11:07 AM
Just in case anyone thinks i've gone mad....Disco Dave and Disc O'Dave are not the same person :greengrin

Is this like when you went out with someone for a while, and after the usual passionate start, things tailed off, and soon it just wasn't working, so you split up....then after not finding anything better a few months later, you start to think "maybe it wasn't so bad". Warm slippers and all that?

As anyone who's been there will tell you...it doesn't take long to realise you should never have got back together, and it's usually far worse the second time round.

Apologies, I went off a bit on one there....

--------
27-01-2011, 11:08 AM
What was the point in appointing a new manager, if it was not to improve us?


I get it. Wind changed direction down in Blackpool, then?

There is hardly a single player in the squad right now who would get pass-marks from the membership of this forum.

Goalkeepers? Smith throws games - allegedly, according to some. Brown can't kick. Stack's a sick-note.

Hart? Injury-prone and not Hibs class. Dickoh? Thicot? Bomb-scares. Hanlon and Booth - inexperienced. Murray? Past it. Miller? Doesn't try. De Graaf? Useless - never tackles. Wotherspoon? All right last year but gone right off the boil. Nish? Never on his feet and clueless. Deek? Bad attitude. McBride? Who? Zouma? Lightweight and injury-prone. Duffy? Four months injured, but not really up to it. Rankin? Rank. Stevenson? Hasn't fulfilled his early promise. Trakys? A huddy - worse than Konte.

And so on. As I say - either the players are good enough, in which case why are so many of them getting dog's abuse on this forum after every game - or they're not, in which case the manager HAS to be allowed to replace and restructure.

How many of those were signed by the now omniscient and all wise Yogi?

Or by the same Mixu who it now appears (according to the all-wise ones) we punted prematurely? (Does ANYONE remember what this forum was like when Mixu was in charge? And who precisely were calling for his removal? Usual suspects, by any chance?)

It's always easy to go after the manager. But if, yet again, it's all the manager's fault - what about the guys who appointed him? The board? Or the guy who appoints THEM? Farmer? We gonnae go after THEM?

Thought not.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 11:17 AM
I get it. Wind changed direction down in Blackpool, then?

There is hardly a single player in the squad right now who would get pass-marks from the membership of this forum.

Goalkeepers? Smith throws games - allegedly, according to some. Brown can't kick. Stack's a sick-note.

Hart? Injury-prone and not Hibs class. Dickoh? Thicot? Bomb-scares. Hanlon and Booth - inexperienced. Murray? Past it. Miller? Doesn't try. De Graaf? Useless - never tackles. Wotherspoon? All right last year but gone right off the boil. Nish? Never on his feet and clueless. Deek? Bad attitude. McBride? Who? Zouma? Lightweight and injury-prone. Duffy? Four months injured, but not really up to it. Rankin? Rank. Stevenson? Hasn't fulfilled his early promise. Trakys? A huddy - worse than Konte.

And so on. As I say - either the players are good enough, in which case why are so many of them getting dog's abuse on this forum after every game - or they're not, in which case the manager HAS to be allowed to replace and restructure.

How many of those were signed by the now omniscient and all wise Yogi?

Or by the same Mixu who it now appears (according to the all-wise ones) we punted prematurely? (Does ANYONE remember what this forum was like when Mixu was in charge? And who precisely were calling for his removal? Usual suspects, by any chance?)

It's always easy to go after the manager. But if, yet again, it's all the manager's fault - what about the guys who appointed him? The board? Or the guy who appoints THEM? Farmer? We gonnae go after THEM?

Thought not.

Oh aye wind changed. :rolleyes: Managers are brought to clubs to manage sides that are doing badly. Now its the case of managers come in, but cant be held accountable for results until such times as they have emptied the last managers players. Cheque book managers, not man managers. We'd have been just as well poodleing along until we were relegated, then got the new man in to buy his players for next season.

--------
27-01-2011, 11:18 AM
I thought the argument about getting rid of Hughes was he spoke terrible, his tactics were poor. He had no plan B and was a bully. The team was good enough, 99% of folk said that, all we needed was a manager who knew what he was doing. that argument has changed now? Strange eh?

You forgot the bit about him signing everyone on short contracts so that they would feel no sense of loyalty to the club and wouldn't bother their backsides for the whole of their last season here? This season, to be specific?

That was Hughes' idea - not, as many thought at the time, Petrie telling him in a roundabout way that he wasn't wanted.

Everything you list about Hughes here is true, although how he spoke wasn't the issue as far as I was concerned. (What he was saying was, though.)

I'm not convinced, btw, that the players aren't actually good enough to be getting a lot better results than they are - but they're now in the last few months of their contracts, looking for new jobs, and not bothering their lazy backsides, most of them.


Just in case anyone thinks i've gone mad....Disco Dave and Disc O'Dave are not the same person :greengrin

Is this like when you went out with someone for a while, and after the usual passionate start, things tailed off, and soon it just wasn't working, so you split up....then after not finding anything better a few months later, you start to think "maybe it wasn't so bad". Warm slippers and all that?

As anyone who's been there will tell you...it doesn't take long to realise you should never have got back together, and it's usually far worse the second time round.

Apologies, I went off a bit on one there....


Never thought it for an instant, Dave.

Apostrophes matter, right? :wink:

lapsedhibee
27-01-2011, 11:18 AM
It's always easy to go after the manager. But if, yet again, it's all the manager's fault - what about the guys who appointed him? The board? Or the guy who appoints THEM? Farmer? We gonnae go after THEM?


And who appointed Farmer. :grr: :panic:

NGH
27-01-2011, 11:22 AM
I get it. Wind changed direction down in Blackpool, then?

There is hardly a single player in the squad right now who would get pass-marks from the membership of this forum.

Goalkeepers? Smith throws games - allegedly, according to some. Brown can't kick. Stack's a sick-note.

Hart? Injury-prone and not Hibs class. Dickoh? Thicot? Bomb-scares. Hanlon and Booth - inexperienced. Murray? Past it. Miller? Doesn't try. De Graaf? Useless - never tackles. Wotherspoon? All right last year but gone right off the boil. Nish? Never on his feet and clueless. Deek? Bad attitude. McBride? Who? Zouma? Lightweight and injury-prone. Duffy? Four months injured, but not really up to it. Rankin? Rank. Stevenson? Hasn't fulfilled his early promise. Trakys? A huddy - worse than Konte.

And so on. As I say - either the players are good enough, in which case why are so many of them getting dog's abuse on this forum after every game - or they're not, in which case the manager HAS to be allowed to replace and restructure.

How many of those were signed by the now omniscient and all wise Yogi?

Or by the same Mixu who it now appears (according to the all-wise ones) we punted prematurely? (Does ANYONE remember what this forum was like when Mixu was in charge? And who precisely were calling for his removal? Usual suspects, by any chance?)

It's always easy to go after the manager. But if, yet again, it's all the manager's fault - what about the guys who appointed him? The board? Or the guy who appoints THEM? Farmer? We gonnae go after THEM?

Thought not.

I'm not sure there is much mileage in coming on threads like this and talking sense Doddie. Too many folk seem to have moved far beyond a realistic analysis of how Hibs have got here and the way out.

--------
27-01-2011, 11:23 AM
And who appointed Farmer. :grr: :panic:


We needed him - desperately.

But IIRC he was approached by - some of the fans? :devil:

--------
27-01-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm not sure there is much mileage in coming on threads like this and talking sense Doddie. Too many folk seem to have moved far beyond a realistic analysis of how Hibs have got here and the way out.


I know.

I think the party line right now is, "We want it sorted NOW, and we're going to scream and scream and scream until it IS sorted! So there!"

"EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

thefifer1959
27-01-2011, 11:30 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

I was against Yogi getting the sack. But lets be fair here we have a bunch of players that dont give a damn for the club only their bank balances, they would find it tuff in the English 4th Division they are not good enough.

I say give the Hibs under 21's a chance in games (the whole team from the under 21's) what more harm can be done?

the squad we have now dont care about the history of Hibs or the area that is historically associated with the Hibs all they see are the Zero's. and in my opinion they are all Zero's.

DONT BLAME THE MANAGER....BLAME THE DUD'S WE GOT PLAYING.

THEY ALL SAY THEY LOVE HIBS AND THE SUPPORTERS BUT DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO ROLL THEIR SLEEVES UP AND DIG IN.

Calderwood is a good manager give him time to get rid of the wasters.

Away The Hibees (the original hoops)

Jazza
27-01-2011, 12:09 PM
We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:


I had a wee chat with JC at a football tourney in Pencaitland after he left and he said that the only player that really bought into his ways of thinking and preparing was Fletch. Says it all really where he is and what he is earning now

Dinkydoo
27-01-2011, 12:54 PM
For the sake of repeating myself ------- the REAL problem is the total mince on the park and there's not a Manager out there who could gel them into a half decent team.

The quicker the vast majority of them are shipped out the better. Then, and only then, can we make a judgement on Colin Calderwood.


What he said. :agree:

Saves me repeating myself again :wink:

Andy74
27-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Can anyone just tell me why hardly a single post when Hughes was here suggested he should be sacked because of bad signings?

Seems to now be an accepted facts, same as the short term contracts being to blame.

If people are comforted in taking facts from things that aren't necessarily so then fair enough but it doesn't get us much closer to the real reasons for loss of form and where we are now.

What I see is a team that is much, much worse than the one that started the season and whereas we had a few things to address and put right we now have more than we started with.

Albion Hibs
27-01-2011, 01:07 PM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!


The majortiy on here wanted rid of Yogi (I took a hammering for saying we should keep him), you are saying your view is that it was a mistake - What makes you think that we wont make the same mistake again, get rid of Calderwood then in 12 months time you will be putting up a Thread saying we should not have got rid of Calderwood.

Lets just go straight to it, as fans we have NO track record in assessing the ability of a manager and when he should or should not go - recent example being Mixu, I am sure Yogi will prove to be the same.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 01:23 PM
Can anyone just tell me why hardly a single post when Hughes was here suggested he should be sacked because of bad signings?

Seems to now be an accepted facts, same as the short term contracts being to blame.

If people are comforted in taking facts from things that aren't necessarily so then fair enough but it doesn't get us much closer to the real reasons for loss of form and where we are now.

What I see is a team that is much, much worse than the one that started the season and whereas we had a few things to address and put right we now have more than we started with.

It does not suite their argument. :agree:

banarc7062
27-01-2011, 01:26 PM
We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:

I agree entirely with this viewpoint. When Petrie entertained the moaners at his house signalled stupid "player power" :agree:

Aldo
27-01-2011, 01:27 PM
CC will get my full backing. He is pissing in the wind at the moment and cannae dae right for doing wrong.

He has dross to work with and has tried to change the formation, the players and yet no difference.

I watched the game last night and for me both Booth and Towell had excellent games...apart from the small glitch by Towell he did more last night than Hart all season.

Lets hope we can get a striker or 2 into the squad...one with a bit of pace and hopefully get a few goals before long.

Keep going Col you wont get a hard time from me and TBH I dont think RP will sack him cos he knows the dross is on the pitch and not the man managing.

O and nae dont want Hughes back...he's the one that brought the dross and got us in this position.

Golden Bear
27-01-2011, 01:28 PM
Can anyone just tell me why hardly a single post when Hughes was here suggested he should be sacked because of bad signings?

Seems to now be an accepted facts, same as the short term contracts being to blame.

If people are comforted in taking facts from things that aren't necessarily so then fair enough but it doesn't get us much closer to the real reasons for loss of form and where we are now.

What I see is a team that is much, much worse than the one that started the season and whereas we had a few things to address and put right we now have more than we started with.

It takes time for new signings to mature into bad signings and these guys Yogi signed (and others admittedly), are well past their sell by date.

H!BEE
27-01-2011, 01:42 PM
CALDERWOOD will come good!

:flag::flag::flag:

Lago
27-01-2011, 01:46 PM
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall

Thank goodness for someone who has a bit of sense. Every thing you say is spot on. As a thought, you wonder what some on here would have had to say if they had been around when Pat Stanron signed from the juniors. Not Hibs class probably.

DCI Gene Hunt
27-01-2011, 01:51 PM
Agree with many of the sentiments being expressed here, the problem for me is not in the dugout but on the park, too much deadwood and no imagination or fight about the team. Think we need to give CC a chance with the new signings, that said the current situation is worrying.

Another view is that we don't seem to have improved at all, some would say gotten worse, under CC, and so we should sack him. This does give food for thought. Look at what Craig Brown has done with Sheep. Sheep were playing total pish, CB took over, same players but totally turned the team around.

That said, no way should we get Yogi back, he is largely the reason why we are in the mess we are in. Have some folk been sniffing at the UHU? :rolleyes:

G

Kato
27-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Oh aye wind changed. :rolleyes: Managers are brought to clubs to manage sides that are doing badly. Now its the case of managers come in, but cant be held accountable for results until such times as they have emptied the last managers players. Cheque book managers, not man managers. We'd have been just as well poodleing along until we were relegated, then got the new man in to buy his players for next season.

In all your arguments you assume the group of players WANT to do well and are waiting around for the correct guidance.

Wise up.

They don't care or want to do well.

Arch Stanton
27-01-2011, 02:03 PM
Can anyone just tell me why hardly a single post when Hughes was here suggested he should be sacked because of bad signings?

Seems to now be an accepted facts, same as the short term contracts being to blame.

If people are comforted in taking facts from things that aren't necessarily so then fair enough but it doesn't get us much closer to the real reasons for loss of form and where we are now.

What I see is a team that is much, much worse than the one that started the season and whereas we had a few things to address and put right we now have more than we started with.

Even now people aren't saying that's the reason he should have been sacked - you seem to be having your own little argument there.

As far as I can tell he went because the results in 2010 were abysmal - attributing the extent to which his signings played a part in that seems rather a fruitless exercise I'd say.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 02:03 PM
In all your arguments you assume the group of players WANT to do well and are waiting around for the correct guidance.

Wise up.

They don't care or want to do well.

You see i dont assume the players dont want to do well, i dont assume they are all wasters and have no pride in themselves. They are after all professionals, but i bow to your superior knowledge on the players.

The Falcon
27-01-2011, 02:05 PM
We wouldnt be in this position if we'd backed, and stuck with John Collins - the ONLY manager to "win" (win) something in the last 20 years....

..it all went wrong thereafter.

Still ; why would we want to follow a manager who demanded players were fit, sharp, played for the shirt and passed the ball along the ground :rolleyes: (that's before we talk about the mans' pedigree in actually PLAYING fitba) (for Hibs) :agree:

Alex Miller?

The Falcon
27-01-2011, 02:08 PM
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall


Well put that man !

Sir David Gray
27-01-2011, 02:15 PM
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall

One major difference between McLeish and Calderwood is that Jim Duffy wasn't sacked until February '98, when there were just 13 games left and we were 4 points adrift at the foot of the table. When McLeish came in, there were only 12 games left and we had gone 5 points from safety. I would say that we were pretty much beyond help by the time McLeish came in.

Calderwood, on the other hand, was appointed in October '10, with 30 games of the season remaining. We were 8th at the time of his arrival, only 5 points from 3rd.

14 league games later and we're 11th, just 3 points away from being bottom and 29 points from 3rd.

I don't believe that our current squad is good enough to challenge at the top end of the league, where we should be, but with 30 games remaining in the season, a half decent manager would have got this squad comfortably out of relegation trouble.

Also, I know John Collins won us a cup and it was a terrific day that I'll never forget, however do people remember just how bad things had got after the cup win? From that day on the 18th March, we failed to win in 7 matches and we only ended that run on the last day of the season with a win over Celtic, when the title had already been decided.

We had a brilliant start to the 07-08 season but from October-December, when he finally left, the only match we managed to win was against Gretna. By the time he eventually resigned, Hibs were in 5th place.

Most of his signings were awful as well, with Curier, Donaldson, Gathuessi, Kerr, Morais and O'Brien being up there as some of the worst players that I have ever seen at Easter Road. In fact, I'm not even sure that they would have been an improvement on our current bunch of players.

As far as the original post is concerned, there is no way that we should be going back to Hughes.

Keith_M
27-01-2011, 02:30 PM
The argument that, because we haven't gotten any better, that we should have stuck with Yogi is flawed. The problem is that it appears that he hasn't been replaced by anything better.

If in 6 months time CC proves me wrong, then I'll personally be delighted. I just haven't yet seen ANY signs of a decent manager in him.

Blackpool is right, he should at least have shown SOMETHING so far to prove he has what it takes. Come on CC, you know you want to.

sixtwo
27-01-2011, 02:30 PM
When I saw this thread headline, I thought someone had a plan to make our ex manager as miserable and humiliated as we all all felt when we had to suffer his management at our club.

PeeJay
27-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Bringing Yogi back is never going to happen and a pointless proposal really. I'm not convinced by Calderwood, I think any manager worth something should be able to galvanise a team and make them perform better than he has with our lot - even in the "short space of time available to him". Brown has worked wonders at Aberdeen, like it or not: and they are not - as a team - individually better footballers than most of the current Hibs squad.

However, we are past the point of no return, I feel: sacking him is not really an option because if it is really just the players, a new manager won't be able to do anything with them either. If it is the manager and not the players, I'm not sure a newer manager (after a period of searching for one) would have sufficient time to save us from the drop. If it's a combination of both, we're done for anyway. So, all that remains really is to hope that CC really does know what he's doing - so I'm now behind him all the way, and the new signings and the players we currently have - and I thought we actually had some good spells last night. However, performing well in spells against the OF means nothing if we don't take points of the other teams, so time will tell. DU struggled against St. Mirren last night so maybe we should take hope from that?

--------
27-01-2011, 02:42 PM
Can anyone just tell me why hardly a single post when Hughes was here suggested he should be sacked because of bad signings?

Seems to now be an accepted facts, same as the short term contracts being to blame.

If people are comforted in taking facts from things that aren't necessarily so then fair enough but it doesn't get us much closer to the real reasons for loss of form and where we are now.

What I see is a team that is much, much worse than the one that started the season and whereas we had a few things to address and put right we now have more than we started with.


It does not suite their argument. :agree:


Ignoring the posts questioning how good De Graaf was, the questions about hart and Dickoh, the 'wtf' posts about Trakys, the fact that Trakys and Duffy were invisible while Hughes was here because they were injured? The posts asking why we needed three goalies, and why one of them was Smith? The posts asking why Wotherspoon was being played out of position?

Everyone's liable to tailor their memories to suit (sp) their argument. You too.

How about - CC just signed three players, one on loan till June, the others on contracts that'll keep them here two-three seasons. Towell has played, and seems a decent player. We haven't even seen the other two. And there's word of negotiations going on to bring others in.

But hey, let's sack the man who signed them before they even get a chance to play? Start all over again from square one.

That would be really clever.

As for McLeish, the team only really began to motor after Paatelainen and Latapy arrived during IIRC the second quarter of the season. Up till then we had been VERY patchy indeed - anyone remember the reaction when we lost at home to Stranraer? So I stand by my argument.

Just so we understand, I calculate that the average shelf-life of a Hibs manager in the 21st century - McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes and now Calderwood - is 15 months. And dropping.

That should tell us something about where the REAL problems lie.

Beefster
27-01-2011, 03:06 PM
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall

Great post, Doddie.

Kato
27-01-2011, 03:18 PM
They are after all professionals,

...allegedly.



but i bow to your superior knowledge on the players.


Thankyou. So you'll stop banging on about this squad of players just waiting for the right manager to come along.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 03:51 PM
...allegedly.




Thankyou. So you'll stop banging on about this squad of players just waiting for the right manager to come along.

Why should i, i am not the one banging on about poor professionals, who dont want to do well, and dont care? Without a shread of evidence to back that up.

Kato
27-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Why should i,

Go on. You know you want to. Everybody else does.



i am not the one banging on about poor professionals, who dont want to do well, and dont care? Without a shread of evidence to back that up.

Body langage, the last years worth of results, seeing players bladdered regularly, Ayr f*****g Utd, time after time watching players run alongside opponents when they should have challenged for the ball, cheap chat in the papers followed up by powder-puff performances, busting a gut at Ibrox (good for the agents DVD) and not showing up for other games - nah no evidence at all.

StevieC
27-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Why should i, i am not the one banging on about poor professionals, who dont want to do well, and dont care? Without a shread of evidence to back that up.

If you get a chance, watch yesterdays highlights again but this time look for player movement off the ball, and especially for players that are trying to lose their marker and receive a pass.

This alone will show you how professional the current squad of players are.

In comparison, watch the Rangers players from the same perspective.

It's not just about what you do when you have the ball, what you do without it can be just as important.

mikethehibee69
27-01-2011, 04:04 PM
:top marks
And you know this HOW, exactly?

Hughes was the one who signed the squad we have right now.

That alone tells me that he didn't have a clue about what he was doing. There's a whole lot of other reasons why I wanted him gone, but just looking at the job lot of miscellaneous bargain-buys and has-beens he assembled really is enough for me.

For the first time since he came, Calderwood has been able to bring in the players he wants, players he feels he needs. A right-back and a couple of strong midfielders; a goalkeeper and a striker training with the squad; other names doing the rounds.

REALLY REALLY sensible to appoint CC, give him time to look over the players he has, and then just as he's beginning to sign his own guys to replace Hughes's dross, sack him.

Because Diddy Hughes wouldn't have had us in this position?

Diddy Hughes and his pathetic signings (over THREE windows, too) IS the reason we're IN this position.

You know, if the 'fans' had been in THIS state when McLeish took over, he wouldn't have lasted three months. HE didn't save us from relegation - we went down, remember? And we won two of our first 6 in the First Division, looked anything but promotion favourites. So how could McLeish possibly 'have it' - whatever 'it' is?

Like Mcleish, Calderwood is having to rebuild an entire team - squad, even.

BUT of course, the answer to the problem is to sack yet another manager, send the team into yet more turmoil, make absolutely sure that 'stability' and 'forward planning' are phrases never to be associated with Hibernian Football Club, go off looking for someone else to wave a magic wand and make it all better....

Because YOU just KNOW that if YOGI HUGHES was still around, 'we wouldn't be in this position'?

Give me strength! :brickwall

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 04:12 PM
Body langage, the last years worth of results, seeing players bladdered regularly, Ayr f*****g Utd, time after time watching players run alongside opponents when they should have challenged for the ball, cheap chat in the papers followed up by powder-puff performances, busting a gut at Ibrox (good for the agents DVD) and not showing up for other games - nah no evidence at all.

So if you dont win football games you are not professional. Who are these players bladdered regularly name names?

The rest is just bull, they are not very good players. Ibrox, we bust a gut did we, wee super ally thought they played badly.

Talk in the papers, has what exactly to do with being professional, were they pissed while doing the interview? Perhaps playing different tactics every week, changing 5-6-7 players each game, having a different keeper each game, perhaps thats unprofessional, or is it busting a gut to find a decent line up?

Kato
27-01-2011, 04:36 PM
So if you dont win football games you are not professional.

Not quite but if you don't try a leg over a whole series of games and pick up your pay I think there's another word other than "professional" which could be used.


Who are these players bladdered regularly name names?

Not obliged to, not going to.


The rest is just bull, they are not very good players. Ibrox, we bust a gut did we, wee super ally thought they played badly.

Wee Super Ally thought Hibs were great that night. Said it then and repeated it on the radio before last nights game.


Talk in the papers, has what exactly to do with being professional, were they pissed while doing the interview?

I dunno. Talking to the papers has everything to do with being a pro-footballer as has doing the walk afterwards. If hot-air won points we'd have the League sewn up by now.


Perhaps playing different tactics every week, changing 5-6-7 players each game, having a different keeper each game, perhaps thats unprofessional, or is it busting a gut to find a decent line up?

Football basic - if a team loses a game the manager can make whatever changes he wants in the next game.

Last word from me. I'll judge the manager at the end of the season and on how he uses the players that are his men. Can't see what is wrong with that. Judging him on how he utilises that bunch just isn't on as they have by far the lowest work ethic and levels of determinaion I've ever seen in 42 years watching Hibs.

I understand it suits your argument not to factor in the possibility that the players we have inherited from the last Balloon in charge might just a bunch of no-goodnik, lazy, uninterested, self-preservationist, wage thieves (bar the odd one or two) - but ignoring that possibility and attacking the manager constantly at the same time is plain daft.

Phil D. Rolls
27-01-2011, 04:49 PM
Hardy har har. :faf:

StevieC
27-01-2011, 04:56 PM
Movement off the ball has been terrible. It's no wonder sometimes that we can't keep possession.
Funny how we can spot that eh?

I've coached kids and these are basic things that I would teach them. Once they've grasped it their game improves ten-fold.

Movement not only creates space for you to receive a pass but also creates holes in the opposition that you can exploit with the correct play.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=Kato;2712575]Not quite but if you don't try a leg over a whole series of games and pick up your pay I think there's another word other than "professional" which could be used.

Well Hamilton are below us, they must be less professional than us, and there's nothing to worry about.

Not obliged to, not going to.

You made it up, there is no drinking culture at the club.

Wee Super Ally thought Hibs were great that night. Said it then and repeated it on the radio before last nights game.

He also said last night they were poor, managers lie.

I dunno. Talking to the papers has everything to do with being a pro-footballer as has doing the walk afterwards. If hot-air won points we'd have the League sewn up by now.

Not talking to papers, ignoring them would be unprofessional, but still has nothing to do with how they play

Football basic - if a team loses a game the manager can make whatever changes he wants in the next game.
I agree, although making changes as much as CC does will never give us a settled side, and will never create a unity. It also helps cause confusion, within the squad/team.
Last word from me. I'll judge the manager at the end of the season and on how he uses the players that are his men. Can't see what is wrong with that. Judging him on how he utilises that bunch just isn't on as they have by far the lowest work ethic and levels of determinaion I've ever seen in 42 years watching Hibs.
Ah another one who wants a cheque book manager, someone who cant manage someone else's players.
I understand it suits your argument not to factor in the possibility that the players we have inherited from the last Balloon in charge might just a bunch of no-goodnik, lazy, uninterested, self-preservationist, wage thieves (bar the odd one or two) - but ignoring that possibility and attacking the manager constantly at the same time is plain daft.

Whats daft is sacking one manager, and replacing him with someone who cant manage unless its his own players, even then the jury is out.

Arch Stanton
27-01-2011, 05:21 PM
The argument that, because we haven't gotten any better, that we should have stuck with Yogi is flawed. The problem is that it appears that he hasn't been replaced by anything better.

If in 6 months time CC proves me wrong, then I'll personally be delighted. I just haven't yet seen ANY signs of a decent manager in him.

Blackpool is right, he should at least have shown SOMETHING so far to prove he has what it takes. Come on CC, you know you want to.

:agree:

Mind you, when the the bulldozers started on the East Stand I thought to myself, they are never in a million years going to be able to build a new stand, all they've done is create a big pile of rubble.

Kato
27-01-2011, 06:00 PM
You made it up, there is no drinking culture at the club.[/B]

Up yours if you think I'm a liar.


I agree, although making changes as much as CC does will never give us a settled side, and will never create a unity. It also helps cause confusion, within the squad/team.

Sorry but I laughed when I read "unity" regarding the squad.


Ah another one who wants a cheque book manager, someone who cant manage someone else's players.

Not quite. He can't get consistant peformances out of THESE players. The players we have have - GEDDIT? - not some notional squad you have in your brain but which doesn't exist.


Whats daft is sacking one manager, and replacing him with someone who cant manage unless its his own players, even then the jury is out.

..and you've put yourself on the jury.

You are the only one saying he can't manage unless it's his own players. A whole load of people can see the squad are not for playing for Hibs so no matter who the manager is there isn't going to be a performance from them.

You can't and don't want to see or consider that and you aren't going to. Which means it's about as much fun discussing the matter with you as it would be me putting my face against a grinder time after time after time.

It also totally negates any argument you have against the manager as you refuse to even consider this point. :hyper:

Good luck in your future blinkered diatribes. I'll be including myself out.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Up yours if you think I'm a liar.

OOOH hark at her

Sorry but I laughed when I read "unity" regarding the squad.

Another non answer

Not quite. He can't get consistant peformances out of THESE players. The players we have have - GEDDIT? - not some notional squad you have in your brain but which doesn't exist.

And constant changes is helping?

..and you've put yourself on the jury.
No, but giving my opinion, just like you?
You are the only one saying he can't manage unless it's his own players. A whole load of people can see the squad are not for playing for Hibs so no matter who the manager is there isn't going to be a performance from them.
Ah so a whole can see it, that makes it right then. Wait a minute, what about those who dont agree, Has the jury found them guilty? :faf:
You can't and don't want to see or consider that and you aren't going to. Which means it's about as much fun discussing the matter with you as it would be me putting my face against a grinder time after time after time.
There was no discussion though, was there, just you making some things up, that you couldnt validate, and me asking you why?
It also totally negates any argument you have against the manager as you refuse to even consider this point. :hyper:
pot kettle :kettle:
Good luck in your future blinkered diatribes. I'll be including myself out.

You said that last time.

Kaiser1962
27-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Liam Miller for example. I would say better managers than CC or Yogi have failed to get the best out of him. So where would that leave the problem in that instance?

But we/Yogi gave the guy a chance and it could be said cost Yogi his job and is costing this club dearly. Other than a couple of times he hasn't delivered. And the scouts aren't exactly knocking our door down to take him of our hands.

DH1875
27-01-2011, 07:27 PM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!


Would take him back in a minute :top marks.

blackpoolhibs
27-01-2011, 07:29 PM
Would take him back in a minute :top marks.

I wouldn't, he came did his best but ultimately failed. Although if you are going to replace your manager, you sure as hell should have someone lined up who's better.

StevieC
27-01-2011, 07:31 PM
You're me in disguise :greengrin

It's a bloody good disguise then because I've just checked in the mirror and you look exactly like me.

:greengrin

Fifer
27-01-2011, 07:36 PM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

Yes and more signings like degraff. NOT

StevieC
04-03-2011, 08:36 AM
We wouldn't be in this position if we had stuck with him, Calderwood hasn't got it, simple!

It's amazing how much things can change in such a short space of time.

:wink:

Duffys13
04-03-2011, 08:51 AM
It's amazing how much things can change in such a short space of time.

:wink:

And amazingly shows the amount of ***** that is posted on this website at times.

Joe's ice cream
04-03-2011, 09:01 AM
Judge Calderwood once his signings are in the team and the deadwood had been cleared. He was left a mess and must be given a chance.

One voice of reason back then who seems to have been proven right.

StevieC
04-03-2011, 09:19 AM
One voice of reason back then who seems to have been proven right.

There actually seemed to be an equal split on the thread of supporters that were backing Calderwood and those that felt he was not up for the task .. although I think the majority could see that the main problem lay with the players.

Keith_M
04-03-2011, 11:05 AM
I wondered how long it would take for someone to drag up a 'CC must go' type thread.


Stevie, you're sooo mean :greengrin







p.s. Some of the posters on this thread have been conspicous by their absence recently. I expect we'll hear from them again the next time Hibs lose.

Phil D. Rolls
04-03-2011, 11:08 AM
I wondered how long it would take for someone to drag up a 'CC must go' type thread.


Stevie, you're sooo mean :greengrin



p.s. Some of the posters on this thread have been conspicous by their absence recently. I expect we'll hear from them again the next time Hibs lose.

Seems like it's easy to bump your gums when all you have to do is state the bleeding obvious - times were hard. It looks like it's a lot harder to admit to being wrong. It's a weakness really.

poolman
04-03-2011, 11:12 AM
I wondered how long it would take for someone to drag up a 'CC must go' type thread.


Stevie, you're sooo mean :greengrin







p.s. Some of the posters on this thread have been conspicous by their absence recently. I expect we'll hear from them again the next time Hibs lose.


:agree:

sambajustice
04-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Ok,

I only read the first eleven posts and I couldnt stop pishing myself laughing! I hope its been established before now that the OP was taking the piss!!

LOL

Andy74
04-03-2011, 11:27 AM
It's amazing how much things can change in such a short space of time.

:wink:

And can change again.

It took a long, long time for things to change and only really happened when new players were brought in. The point many were making was that a manager needs to manage what he has. Most of those same players achieved fourth last year.

Things sometimes just happen for confidence to get lifted, results to pick up. So far Calderwood, and I do back him, has had one good month, prior to that it was awful and we got pumped by a second division team in the process.

Lets' hope it all keeps going but we should remember that the previous guy who seems to be a joke figure now, had 7 good months and much as performances weren't brilliant they were still on average better than what we are seeing now but our attitude seems to have changed to the fact that it's just winning that is important.

blackpoolhibs
04-03-2011, 11:46 AM
Perhaps we have just been a tad lucky? Calderwoods certainly turned things round, but it took a huge change in personnel. At the time most folk wanted rid of Yogi, the reason or reasons being given were his lack of tactics, lack of knowledge of the game, the way he spoke and his bullying. Virtually nobody AT THAT TIME mentioned the players, in fact the opposite.

There's a lot of folk changing their argument these days, forgetting just why they were wanting him out.

Who's to say once Yogi had got rid of the dross CC has, he wouldnt have had us on a good run, and back in Europe where he did take us before?

FWIW i feel he left at the right time, he'd lost the support of the fans, and perhaps the players. :dunno:

Calderwood has turned things around with some astute signings, and will hopefully carry this on into next season? :applause:

--------
04-03-2011, 11:59 AM
Perhaps we have just been a tad lucky? Calderwoods certainly turned things round, but it took a huge change in personnel. At the time most folk wanted rid of Yogi, the reason or reasons being given were his lack of tactics, lack of knowledge of the game, the way he spoke and his bullying. Virtually nobody AT THAT TIME mentioned the players, in fact the opposite.

There's a lot of folk changing their argument these days, forgetting just why they were wanting him out.

Who's to say once Yogi had got rid of the dross CC has, he wouldnt have had us on a good run, and back in Europe where he did take us before?

FWIW i feel he left at the right time, he'd lost the support of the fans, and perhaps the players. :dunno:

Calderwood has turned things around with some astute signings, and will hopefully carry this on into next season? :applause:


But he showed no sign of "getting rid of the dross" - in fact, he seemed to be determined to sign MORE.

blackpoolhibs
04-03-2011, 12:02 PM
But he showed no sign of "getting rid of the dross" - in fact, he seemed to be determined to sign MORE.

Who? :confused:

Kato
04-03-2011, 12:04 PM
and perhaps the players. :dunno:


He lost most of the players a year ago.

BSEJVT
04-03-2011, 12:19 PM
Who? :confused:

De Graff, Hart, Trakys, Duffy,

All last summer signings

None worth a damn

--------
04-03-2011, 12:31 PM
Who? :confused:

His last draft in his last window - De Graaf, Trakys, Hart, Grounds, Duffy? The idea of the "goalkeeping school"?

You argued to me earlier in this thread that a manager should be able to turn things around working only with his predecessor's signings and without adding a player to the squad.

This ignores the fact that a manager signs players with a view to building a team in line with HIS vision of how they should play. Horses for courses - some players are suited to doing one job, others to other jobs. If Jock Stein had played Willie Hamilton at centre-half and John McNamee as the midfield playmaker - I don't think it would have worked, do you?

In addition, there will be some players who were buddied with the old boss and who may very well resent the new guy; players who were used to the old boss's ways, and take time to adapt to the new guy's; other players whom the new guy just doesn't think are good enough for the job in hand.

The old way a new boss could act to achieve what fans and board are after - a quick, no, an IMMEDIATE improvement in results and League placing - is to go into the market to sign players who he considers ARE good enough, DO fit in with his idea of how the team should play, and who'll be HIS men in the dressingroom and on the pitch.

As Alex Miller did. As Alec McLeish did in the promotion year. As Mowbray did, though under severe financial restraints at first.

I don't suggest for one moment that Hibs are out of the woods just yet. I suspect there may still be still problems that need to be addressed. I'm sure that our present management and coaching team will make mistakes in the days to come. Hopefully, they'll learn from them.

But calling for Calderwood's sacking in January, just after he had begun to bring new players in, only a few months after his appointment, and to call for the reinstatement of the Diddy Hughes, was premature. The club has been in a state of turmoil - managers in, managers out, players signed, players condemned as 'not good enough', players punted, fans raging at the board, the manager, the players, one another - this had to stop. It has to stop.

So - if we lose on Saturday, do we get a reprise of this thread then? Or a "BURN THE WITCH" thread aimed at this or that or all of the players? Whose fault will it be this time?

Stevie Reid
04-03-2011, 12:31 PM
It's incredibly amusing the amount of posters who seem to think that there will be a whole raft of Hibs fans who are devastated about our recent renaissance because they cast aspertions on CC's ability during the black days of January.

FWIW, I did not post on this thread, nor did I call for him to be sacked, but I did openly question CC's ability on several threads recently because I, like many others, felt that he should be achieving better with the resources at his disposal, and that simply stating that it was all Hughes' fault didn't cut it as the one and only reason.

There's a long way to go and whilst I still don't accept that Calderwood was entirely blameless whilst we were in freefall and couldn't buy a goal, he deserves a huge amount of credit for the players that he has brought in and their subsequent affect on the team, our results, and the feeling at the club as a whole - 5 wins in a row in any league is a superb achievement; to do it from the position that we were in, is even better.

EVERYONE is delighted about the turnaround, and the implication that myself (or others) are reluctantly swallowing a large dose of humble pie because my fears that Calderwood may not have been capable of keeping Hibs in SPL proved unfounded, is laughable. I only care about Hibs, I don't care about being right - I've never been more delighted to have my fears and doubts proved wrong in my life.

However, just as people calling for CC to be sacked was premature, so are proclamations that he is definitely the answer - thus far has had one good month out of five, and succeeded (it seems) in keeping us in the SPL, a goal that would have been scoffed at by everyone if it had been stated as an objective at the start of the campaign. But, all the signs since he brought in his own players have been that we are very, very much on the right track to have good times ahead under CC, and we can all look ahead with optimism.

Bad Martini
04-03-2011, 12:36 PM
It's incredibly amusing the amount of posters who seem to think that there will be a whole raft of Hibs fans who are devastated about our recent renaissance because they cast aspertions on CC's ability during the black days of January.

FWIW, I did not post on this thread, nor did I call for him to be sacked, but I did openly question CC's ability on several threads recently because I, like many others, felt that he should be achieving better with the resources at his disposal, and that simply stating that it was all Hughes' fault didn't cut it as the one and only reason.

There's a long way to go and whilst I still don't accept that Calderwood was entirely blameless whilst we were in freefall and couldn't buy a goal, he deserves a huge amount of credit for the players that he has brought in and their subsequent affect on the team, our results, and the feeling at the club as a whole - 5 wins in a row in any league is a superb achievement; to do it from the position that we were in, is even better.

EVERYONE is delighted about the turnaround, and the implication that myself (or others) are reluctantly swallowing a large dose of humble pie because my fears that Calderwood may not have been capable of keeping Hibs in SPL proved unfounded, is laughable. I care about Hibs, I don't care about being right - I've never been more delighted to have my fears and doubts proved wrong in my life.

However, just as people calling for CC to be sacked was premature, so are proclamations that he is definitely the answer - thus far has had one good month out of five, and succeeded (it seems) in keeping us in the SPL, a goal that would have been scoffed at by everyone if it had been stated as an objective at the start of the campaign. But, all the signs since he brought in his own players have been that we are very, very much on the right track to have good times ahead under CC, and we can all look ahead with optimism.

Nail on heid.

It's worth noting we're still not setting the heather alight for a team who has the resources that Hibs have.

THAT SAID, everything starts somewhere and right now, from where I am thinking, a nice wee run of wins will do for starters. I think I said as much when we hit rock bottom; we either started winning and getting our ass in gear or we WOULD go down. It seems we made it in the nick of time.

DELIGHTED at progress. VERY PISSED OFF we HAD to make such progress from such a crap position to start with.

But, onwards and upwards.

GLORY GLORY YA BASS.

ENDOF

blackpoolhibs
04-03-2011, 12:57 PM
De Graff, Hart, Trakys, Duffy,

All last summer signings

None worth a damn


His last draft in his last window - De Graaf, Trakys, Hart, Grounds, Duffy? The idea of the "goalkeeping school"?

You argued to me earlier in this thread that a manager should be able to turn things around working only with his predecessor's signings and without adding a player to the squad.

This ignores the fact that a manager signs players with a view to building a team in line with HIS vision of how they should play. Horses for courses - some players are suited to doing one job, others to other jobs. If Jock Stein had played Willie Hamilton at centre-half and John McNamee as the midfield playmaker - I don't think it would have worked, do you?

In addition, there will be some players who were buddied with the old boss and who may very well resent the new guy; players who were used to the old boss's ways, and take time to adapt to the new guy's; other players whom the new guy just doesn't think are good enough for the job in hand.

The old way a new boss could act to achieve what fans and board are after - a quick, no, an IMMEDIATE improvement in results and League placing - is to go into the market to sign players who he considers ARE good enough, DO fit in with his idea of how the team should play, and who'll be HIS men in the dressingroom and on the pitch.

As Alex Miller did. As Alec McLeish did in the promotion year. As Mowbray did, though under severe financial restraints at first.

I don't suggest for one moment that Hibs are out of the woods just yet. I suspect there may still be still problems that need to be addressed. I'm sure that our present management and coaching team will make mistakes in the days to come. Hopefully, they'll learn from them.

But calling for Calderwood's sacking in January, just after he had begun to bring new players in, only a few months after his appointment, and to call for the reinstatement of the Diddy Hughes, was premature. The club has been in a state of turmoil - managers in, managers out, players signed, players condemned as 'not good enough', players punted, fans raging at the board, the manager, the players, one another - this had to stop. It has to stop.

So - if we lose on Saturday, do we get a reprise of this thread then? Or a "BURN THE WITCH" thread aimed at this or that or all of the players? Whose fault will it be this time?

Nobody was actually calling for hughes to be brought back? Some argued what was the point of bringing in someone who couldnt manage his players, when ALL the arguments were we had decent players but it was the manager who was deploying them wrongly??????????????

ForeverHibs93
04-03-2011, 01:02 PM
Not that I agree with the comments on this thread, BUT, at the time these people had every right to think what they wanted what was our record when this thread was started?

mjhibby
04-03-2011, 02:08 PM
Only the management team and the players who failed the club can tell us why we were so poor for so long.Cc obviously wanted them to play a certain way and the players holding the jerseys either didnt respond to him or werent able to so. cc and derek adams had to bide their time untl they got players in.It is terrible that the youngsters we have signed and the likes of booth and hanlon have got us on this run whereas the so called experienced professionals werent able to win one of 12 games.Admittedly there were tough ones in there but the run was terrible.
Naturally i was worried that cc and derek adams werent going to sort it but the last 5 games has shown they know the problems and while towell,sodje and vaz te are short term solutions the big purge will be in the close season.I doubt we will make the top six but i think deeks,dickoh and miller may stay if we keep a decent run going and a few good signings come in in the early summer.Degraaf hinted in his wee article that he was looking for a transfer and that he should have been up to playing in the spl.The fact was he wasnt and like hart,duffy,trakys,nish,rankin and others have shown that this season at least they arent up to it.I felt sorry for cc when he was getting it tight but he is not getting carried away,quite rightly,and the players seem to be focussed and know what they are meant to be doing.Plus he seems to be using the subs at the right time.
It is no coincidence that he is getting a turn from the subs whereas yogi either didnt us them or left it too late.he has also shown the one thing that the last few managers have lacked.He picks players on form and nobody is too big to be dropped.Maybe some of the players thought their places were safe but cc has shown he is quietly ruthless in that regard and as i said youngsters like hanlon,wotherspoon,booth and paulsson have shown the so called senior players how its done and have listened to the boss and got the job done.
It was a horrendous time when we were on our bad run but credit to rod for sticking by him(though i supsect that may have been more to do with the cost of sacking him eh rod) and now we have very exciting younsters in the team and a great anticipation for the close season and nest season.Its a funny old game as greavsie said but i havent been so optimistic about hibs and football for yonks but like stacks injury am well aware it wont take a lot to derail our run.

Sunny1875
04-03-2011, 02:14 PM
Get my Granny on the pitch. We wouldn't be in trouble if she was a regular starter.

See, we can all say mince that can't be justified.

Beefster your granny has a fine touch and plays for the shirt but i think her legs have gone for 90 minutes at this level, maybe good as an impact player though

Phil D. Rolls
04-03-2011, 02:31 PM
Not that I agree with the comments on this thread, BUT, at the time these people had every right to think what they wanted what was our record when this thread was started?

I don't think they were right to call for the manager's head so soon though. What has happened since would suggest they were wrong.

DC_Hibs
04-03-2011, 02:42 PM
There's no inbetween with some folk and in a few months we could be looking back at some of the drivel thats been posted on our winning run and slating Calderwood again.... and his new signings.

Calderwood was the messiah after masterminding our success at Ibrox early on in his tenure but quickly turned into a pudding.

We beat St Mirren at home at the start of our 5 match winning run and Palsson was the new Sauzee and we were amazed that we got the captain of Liverpool reserves who will now likely be leaving us in the summer. How Hibs beat off all the competition to sign him I still don't know........

Booth is the new Bale and better than Murphy.

Stack is the answer to our goalkeeping problems now but was to be emptied at the end of the season previously in most fans views.

OK, thats enough drivel from me.

Keith_M
04-03-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't think they were right to call for the manager's head so soon though. What has happened since would suggest they were wrong.


....but could be proved right in the long run. I actually agree with some of the points of the more negative posts, that we really should have been doing better during the barren spell we endured.

One of my comments in this thread was that we should have seen at least SOME signs of a decent manager, and I hadn't seen any. We have since then, for instance an eye for a good player and a willingness to make pragmatic substitutions.

It's still all speculation as to what will happen in the long run. We've turned a corner, yes, but we're still a few streets from our destination. Just keep going in the right direction and we'll all be happy.


(I'll go now, as that's an overdose of metaphors :wink: )

The Falcon
04-03-2011, 03:12 PM
I dont think "EVERYONE" is delighted at the turnaround on this board but do believe all Hibs fans are.

There were a significant amount of posters who were prophets of doom and who are now, that the impending catastrophe has lifted somewhat (although not entirely gone), significant by their absence. I honestly believe that there were many Yams on the windup (fair enough) but I also think a number of longer term Yam sleepers were outed. You know who you are :greengrin

CC may not be the messiah but he has shown a cool head and an eye for a player to date at least. We have won five games when we needed to against teams (and in venues) that have traditionally given us problems. Its not pretty (yet) but its been effective.



It's incredibly amusing the amount of posters who seem to think that there will be a whole raft of Hibs fans who are devastated about our recent renaissance because they cast aspertions on CC's ability during the black days of January.

FWIW, I did not post on this thread, nor did I call for him to be sacked, but I did openly question CC's ability on several threads recently because I, like many others, felt that he should be achieving better with the resources at his disposal, and that simply stating that it was all Hughes' fault didn't cut it as the one and only reason.

There's a long way to go and whilst I still don't accept that Calderwood was entirely blameless whilst we were in freefall and couldn't buy a goal, he deserves a huge amount of credit for the players that he has brought in and their subsequent affect on the team, our results, and the feeling at the club as a whole - 5 wins in a row in any league is a superb achievement; to do it from the position that we were in, is even better.

EVERYONE is delighted about the turnaround, and the implication that myself (or others) are reluctantly swallowing a large dose of humble pie because my fears that Calderwood may not have been capable of keeping Hibs in SPL proved unfounded, is laughable. I only care about Hibs, I don't care about being right - I've never been more delighted to have my fears and doubts proved wrong in my life.

However, just as people calling for CC to be sacked was premature, so are proclamations that he is definitely the answer - thus far has had one good month out of five, and succeeded (it seems) in keeping us in the SPL, a goal that would have been scoffed at by everyone if it had been stated as an objective at the start of the campaign. But, all the signs since he brought in his own players have been that we are very, very much on the right track to have good times ahead under CC, and we can all look ahead with optimism.

Jones28
04-03-2011, 03:25 PM
If this isnt a wind up I have lost all faith in Hibs supporters...get a *****ing grip :blah:

matty_f
04-03-2011, 04:08 PM
....but could be proved right in the long run. I actually agree with some of the points of the more negative posts, that we really should have been doing better during the barren spell we endured.

One of my comments in this thread was that we should have seen at least SOME signs of a decent manager, and I hadn't seen any. We have since then, for instance an eye for a good player and a willingness to make pragmatic substitutions.

It's still all speculation as to what will happen in the long run. We've turned a corner, yes, but we're still a few streets from our destination. Just keep going in the right direction and we'll all be happy.


(I'll go now, as that's an overdose of metaphors :wink: )

There were signs of improvement, it's just that the results didn't reflect the improvements, and sometimes we went a step back in oder to move two forward.

The biggest problem is that some very vocal folk got caught up I'm the hysteria and would shout down any argument that profess was being made.

I've thought since very early on that cc would ultimately be a very good manager for us, and while I am still a long, long way from being vindicated in taking that point of view, I am confident that ultimately, I will be

Keith_M
04-03-2011, 04:14 PM
There were signs of improvement, it's just that the results didn't reflect the improvements, and sometimes we went a step back in oder to move two forward.

The biggest problem is that some very vocal folk got caught up I'm the hysteria and would shout down any argument that profess was being made.

I've thought since very early on that cc would ultimately be a very good manager for us, and while I am still a long, long way from being vindicated in taking that point of view, I am confident that ultimately, I will be


For what it's worth Matty, I'm happy with the way things are heading at the moment. I'm sure most Hibbys are.


Onwards and upwards :thumbsup:

Captain Trips
04-03-2011, 04:27 PM
I was very critical of CC after about game 8 onwards and I feel 100% justified in that as my thoughts are based on what I had seen and on what I thought "maybe" ahead.

CC has now got some wins under belt which is brilliant does not make me wrong or right and doesnt make anyone who backed him wrong or right. IMO I still have doubts over CC but less so than before. Only time will tell if I saw it and was bang on or I made a very bad call on CC, however I will be here no matter what way it goes and I 100% want to have got it wrong about CC.

steakbake
04-03-2011, 05:12 PM
There were signs of improvement, it's just that the results didn't reflect the improvements, and sometimes we went a step back in oder to move two forward.

The biggest problem is that some very vocal folk got caught up I'm the hysteria and would shout down any argument that profess was being made.

I've thought since very early on that cc would ultimately be a very good manager for us, and while I am still a long, long way from being vindicated in taking that point of view, I am confident that ultimately, I will be

...that's a bold claim.

Has anyone else written themselves in to the centre of a public furore?

--------
04-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Nobody was actually calling for hughes to be brought back? Some argued what was the point of bringing in someone who couldnt manage his players, when ALL the arguments were we had decent players but it was the manager who was deploying them wrongly??????????????

Not ALL the arguments. People were saying that the players were either not good enough or not exerting themselves.

Anyhow, Yogi isn't coming back, except as an exceptionally tiresome TV pundit from time to time - and a jolly good thing, too.

blackpoolhibs
04-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Not ALL the arguments. People were saying that the players were either not good enough or not exerting themselves.

Anyhow, Yogi isn't coming back, except as an exceptionally tiresome TV pundit from time to time - and a jolly good thing, too.

I disagree Doddie, when we started our bad run last february 99% of the posters who wanted rid wanted rid because Yogi hadn't a clue. He'd no plan B and his tactics were plain stupid. Oh aye and he spoke with a leith accent. :wink: This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back.

CC takes over and he cant get a tune out them, and suddenly they are wasters piss heads wage thiefs you name it they were to blame. :confused:

IWasThere2016
04-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Yogi's gone thankfully.

CC is the man :thumbsup:

Wotherspiniesta
04-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Imagine dragging this back up. :rolleyes:

Silly, point scoring nonsense between people who all want one thing: success for our club.

Some people jumped the gun when asking for Calderwood's head, obviously.

But, we've moved on as a team, can we not move on as fans?

:clapper::cgwa:cgwa:clapper:

FitbaFolkKen
04-03-2011, 06:48 PM
I disagree Doddie, when we started our bad run last february 99% of the posters who wanted rid wanted rid because Yogi hadn't a clue. He'd no plan B and his tactics were plain stupid. Oh aye and he spoke with a leith accent. :wink: This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back.

CC takes over and he cant get a tune out them, and suddenly they are wasters piss heads wage thiefs you name it they were to blame. :confused:

Yogi did well with the players initially then it fell away, which would suggest that something changed behind the scenes. I think it is a fair assumption to make that the manager is to blame should everything go belly up, so people with their sources etc.. came to the fore and various reasons were found for wanting rid of Hughes. However the performance of the team should have been reason enough.

Maybe a lot of us got it wrong, but he put the squad together.Regardless of why we wanted rid of Hughes, the reason we needed to became apparent after he left, the squad he was assembling was getting steadily worse.

--------
04-03-2011, 06:49 PM
I disagree Doddie, when we started our bad run last february 99% of the posters who wanted rid wanted rid because Yogi hadn't a clue. He'd no plan B and his tactics were plain stupid. Oh aye and he spoke with a leith accent. :wink: This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back.

CC takes over and he cant get a tune out them, and suddenly they are wasters piss heads wage thiefs you name it they were to blame. :confused:


I'm not going to go back to verify the stats. You may be right, though I seem to remember a lot of criticism of people like Miller, Nish, Smith and Hogg. By the end of the season I'd reckon there was a growing groundswell of criticism of a growing number of the players, and by the beginning of this season dissatisfaction with the quality of the players Hughes had brought in - Stephens was too young, why had we signed him; Hart was slow, injury-prone; De Graaf just not up to the job, Trakys a sick-note and Duffy just another Falkirk Old Boy - and injured at that.

And this was long before Hughes finally left and Calderwood came in.

But this is rather beside the main point I was making. Before the days of Bosman and transfer windows, when a manager arrived at an ailing club, one sliding down the table, how did he arrest the slide? By engaging in intensive training sessions with the existing playing-staff? By drafting in young, inexperienced players from the reserves? By waving his own special personal magic wand, or bringing out his own Exclusive Management Secret Plan?

No, he didn't, and you know he didn't.

You know what he did - he assessed the players he had, then went into the transfer market and brought in three of four players to freshen and strengthen the side. CC couldn't do that until the window. When he did, we began to see results. Doesn't mean we're going to live happily ever after; DOES mean that for just now the pressure's off a little and we maybe can form a better judegment of the man's abilities than we could in te middle of January.

truehibernian
04-03-2011, 07:19 PM
All you have to do is look at the window and contrast and compare the kind of player profile CC went for, and the ones Hughes went for.

Calderwood went for players who were in the 19-24 year old age bracket, he also went for players who wanted to step up and prove why they should be first team players (Palsson, Towell, Thornhill). He also went out to get the full back positions sorted, with youth and pace key. The midfield lacked energy and battling quality, and he brought in Scott and Palsson. Sodje has won the vast majority of his battles up front, chipped in with a couple of goals and assists, and all in all is a team player.

Hughes went for a totally different player. He tried to bring in players he knew, Duffy McBride, Cregg and Stokes. Very limited scouting required, however they were two, three seasons down the line when he first knew them. Stokes was a success on the pitch, nightmare off it. Cregg never got a sniff, McBride's failings were soon exposed, and Duffy was immediately injured. Hart was someone who I think only Hibs were in for and had not had a full season behind him. De Graaf.....goodness only knows what he saw in him other than old youtube videos. No pace, no energy, players whose best days were/are perhaps behind them to be brutally honest. He was wanting his teams to play Dutch style football in league where all other 11 teams play physical 100 mile and hour football. I shake my head when he stated he wanted his full backs pushing forward like Alves, yet has Hart and Hanlon in the full back slots :confused:

CC also came in and for me, in a admirable and professional way, went about telling certain players that they were not up to the job. Hogg simply had to go. McBride too. Hart is no more than a back up if needs must. Colin Nish must surely know that Sodje for all his lack of finesse, is a better all round player than him and offers more to the team. CC has slowly went "about his business" to coin a Hughes phrase.

We were going backwards on so many levels under Hughes and it is absolutely no surprise to me that he remains unappointed in any decent managerial post. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club. One of the worst appointments we have made in the last wee while. To me he lives football in the past.

Towell - Hart
Booth - Hanlon
Hanlon - Hogg
Palsson - McBride
Scott - Rankin
Sodje - Nish

The above highlights Hughes' failings. CC's eye for a player and the attributes he looks for in a player are more geared towards good, solid performance with energy, workrate and desire. There is a refreshing pace about the team in Booth, Towell and Wotherspoon and Scott. There is power and dig, yet some skill included in Palsson and Scott. And Sodje is becoming a real fans favourite. Hanlon has also come on leaps and bounds and looks super confident when he plays now. That has to be down to managerial style and approach.

I just cannot believe that there are any fans out there that think Hughes could have or would have turned it around. Only "fitba people" knew of course......and the "faceless fans" like us knew nothing and didn't deserve a voice.

Well well rid. CC is the man and he is one we are all behind and the players too. I can't wait for games now (even when we were losing I saw positive signs). Long may it continue :agree:

matty_f
04-03-2011, 07:34 PM
...that's a bold claim.

Has anyone else written themselves in to the centre of a public furore?

:greengrin Dangers of not proof reading a post made using predictive texting!

R'Albin
04-03-2011, 07:36 PM
All you have to do is look at the window and contrast and compare the kind of player profile CC went for, and the ones Hughes went for.

Calderwood went for players who were in the 19-24 year old age bracket, he also went for players who wanted to step up and prove why they should be first team players (Palsson, Towell, Thornhill). He also went out to get the full back positions sorted, with youth and pace key. The midfield lacked energy and battling quality, and he brought in Scott and Palsson. Sodje has won the vast majority of his battles up front, chipped in with a couple of goals and assists, and all in all is a team player.

Hughes went for a totally different player. He tried to bring in players he knew, Duffy McBride, Cregg and Stokes. Very limited scouting required, however they were two, three seasons down the line when he first knew them. Stokes was a success on the pitch, nightmare off it. Cregg never got a sniff, McBride's failings were soon exposed, and Duffy was immediately injured. Hart was someone who I think only Hibs were in for and had not had a full season behind him. De Graaf.....goodness only knows what he saw in him other than old youtube videos. No pace, no energy, players whose best days were/are perhaps behind them to be brutally honest. He was wanting his teams to play Dutch style football in league where all other 11 teams play physical 100 mile and hour football. I shake my head when he stated he wanted his full backs pushing forward like Alves, yet has Hart and Hanlon in the full back slots :confused:

CC also came in and for me, in a admirable and professional way, went about telling certain players that they were not up to the job. Hogg simply had to go. McBride too. Hart is no more than a back up if needs must. Colin Nish must surely know that Sodje for all his lack of finesse, is a better all round player than him and offers more to the team. CC has slowly went "about his business" to coin a Hughes phrase.

We were going backwards on so many levels under Hughes and it is absolutely no surprise to me that he remains unappointed in any decent managerial post. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club. One of the worst appointments we have made in the last wee while. To me he lives football in the past.

Towell - Hart
Booth - Hanlon
Hanlon - Hogg
Palsson - McBride
Scott - Rankin
Sodje - Nish

The above highlights Hughes' failings. CC's eye for a player and the attributes he looks for in a player are more geared towards good, solid performance with energy, workrate and desire. There is a refreshing pace about the team in Booth, Towell and Wotherspoon and Scott. There is power and dig, yet some skill included in Palsson and Scott. And Sodje is becoming a real fans favourite. Hanlon has also come on leaps and bounds and looks super confident when he plays now. That has to be down to managerial style and approach.

I just cannot believe that there are any fans out there that think Hughes could have or would have turned it around. Only "fitba people" knew of course......and the "faceless fans" like us knew nothing and didn't deserve a voice.

Well well rid. CC is the man and he is one we are all behind and the players too. I can't wait for games now (even when we were losing I saw positive signs). Long may it continue :agree:
:top marks

Great post

hibiedude
04-03-2011, 07:54 PM
The problem with yogi was he didn’t have a clue when the game was running away from us how to change things and get us back in the game.

I still can't believe some people think we were wrong to get rid of this guy :confused:

Calderwood first attempt in bring in his players has us on a 5 run unbeaten game and 3 of them clean sheets.

Who knows if he is the man to have us back in the top half of the table but be honest he’s 100% better than Yogi.

BEEJ
04-03-2011, 08:17 PM
I disagree Doddie, when we started our bad run last february 99% of the posters who wanted rid wanted rid because Yogi hadn't a clue. He'd no plan B and his tactics were plain stupid. Oh aye and he spoke with a leith accent. :wink: This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back.

CC takes over and he cant get a tune out them, and suddenly they are wasters piss heads wage thiefs you name it they were to blame. :confused:
Your view of the comments being expressed back then is true in some respects; but the passing of time has distorted your recall on one point. :wink: On this comment:

"This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back"

You must have forgotten then the many, many contributions from frustrated posters at the end of last season which spoke about our midget midfield so easily bullied and muscled out of games. Long debates questioning the value to the squad of the likes of Rankin, Hogg, Nish and Maka. Frustration being expressed on how someone of the quality of Miller could so regularly under-perform.

We might well have wondered on here how a squad such as ours, possessing players of the apparent quality of Riordan, Bamba and Stokes could so easily succumb to the likes of Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone and not even hold its own. It was clearly felt to be under-performing. But not for one minute did folks think that our squad (numbering, for example, Cregg in its ranks) was the last word and didn't need improved upon.

We certainly recognised the lack of strength and height in certain positions. However, the overall calibre of player was not Yogi's biggest problem at the time. With the 2010 summer transfer window came Yogi's big chance to turn things around with a few key signings. That was his opportunity to demonstrate the next critical stage of that vision of his for squad development that he was always talking about.

By the time Yogi left in September serious questions were being asked about the likes of Hart and De Graaf but most folks still held out hope that they would come good and demonstrate the faith that had made them our key summer signings. Yet as time wore on it became clear that they were not going to deliver what we needed.

Then as we drew close to the end of 2010 we understood more readily the problems CC faced with the farcical situation he had to manage under which two-thirds of our squad were contemplating the search for a new club in six months time. Try motivating that lot to fight and scrap for one another!

The accusation of double-standards that you and a few others are directing at those who wanted Yogi out is misplaced. You need finally to get over this grieving process for John Hughes and move on. :greengrin

Andy74
04-03-2011, 08:20 PM
Anyway, onwards and upwards!

IWasThere2016
04-03-2011, 08:23 PM
Your view of the comments being expressed back then is true in some respects; but the passing of time has distorted your recall on one point. :wink: On this comment:

"This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back"

You must have forgotten then the many, many contributions from frustrated posters at the end of last season which spoke about our midget midfield so easily bullied and muscled out of games. Long debates questioning the value to the squad of the likes of Rankin, Hogg, Nish and Maka. Frustration being expressed on how someone of the quality of Miller could so regularly under-perform.

We might well have wondered on here how a squad such as ours, possessing players of the apparent quality of Riordan, Bamba and Stokes could so easily succumb to the likes of Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone and not even hold its own. It was clearly felt to be under-performing. But not for one minute did folks think that our squad (numbering, for example, Cregg in its ranks) was the last word and didn't need improved upon.

We certainly recognised the lack of strength and height in certain positions. However, the overall calibre of player was not Yogi's biggest problem at the time. With the 2010 summer transfer window came Yogi's big chance to turn things around with a few key signings. That was his opportunity to demonstrate the next critical stage of that vision of his for squad development that he was always talking about.

By the time Yogi left in September serious questions were being asked about the likes of Hart and De Graaf but most folks still held out hope that they would come good and demonstrate the faith that had made them our key summer signings. Yet as time wore on it became clear that they were not going to deliver what we needed.

Then as we drew close to the end of 2010 we understood more readily the problems CC faced with the farcical situation he had to manage under which two-thirds of our squad were contemplating the search for a new club in six months time. Try motivating that lot to fight and scrap for one another!

The accusation of double-standards that you and a few others are directing at those who wanted Yogi out is misplaced. You need finally to get over this grieving process for John Hughes and move on. :greengrin

:greengrin

The_Sauz
04-03-2011, 10:41 PM
The question I would like to ask is........Would Yogi have swapped Murray for Millar :greengrin

whiskyhibby
04-03-2011, 10:44 PM
Your view of the comments being expressed back then is true in some respects; but the passing of time has distorted your recall on one point. :wink: On this comment:

"This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back"

You must have forgotten then the many, many contributions from frustrated posters at the end of last season which spoke about our midget midfield so easily bullied and muscled out of games. Long debates questioning the value to the squad of the likes of Rankin, Hogg, Nish and Maka. Frustration being expressed on how someone of the quality of Miller could so regularly under-perform.

We might well have wondered on here how a squad such as ours, possessing players of the apparent quality of Riordan, Bamba and Stokes could so easily succumb to the likes of Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone and not even hold its own. It was clearly felt to be under-performing. But not for one minute did folks think that our squad (numbering, for example, Cregg in its ranks) was the last word and didn't need improved upon.

We certainly recognised the lack of strength and height in certain positions. However, the overall calibre of player was not Yogi's biggest problem at the time. With the 2010 summer transfer window came Yogi's big chance to turn things around with a few key signings. That was his opportunity to demonstrate the next critical stage of that vision of his for squad development that he was always talking about.

By the time Yogi left in September serious questions were being asked about the likes of Hart and De Graaf but most folks still held out hope that they would come good and demonstrate the faith that had made them our key summer signings. Yet as time wore on it became clear that they were not going to deliver what we needed.

Then as we drew close to the end of 2010 we understood more readily the problems CC faced with the farcical situation he had to manage under which two-thirds of our squad were contemplating the search for a new club in six months time. Try motivating that lot to fight and scrap for one another!

The accusation of double-standards that you and a few others are directing at those who wanted Yogi out is misplaced. You need finally to get over this grieving process for John Hughes and move on. :greengrin


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::flag::fla g::taxi

matty_f
04-03-2011, 10:50 PM
Your view of the comments being expressed back then is true in some respects; but the passing of time has distorted your recall on one point. :wink: On this comment:

"This board to a man were mainly stating this point of view, in fact there were many posts stating we had the players, Yogi was holding them back"

You must have forgotten then the many, many contributions from frustrated posters at the end of last season which spoke about our midget midfield so easily bullied and muscled out of games. Long debates questioning the value to the squad of the likes of Rankin, Hogg, Nish and Maka. Frustration being expressed on how someone of the quality of Miller could so regularly under-perform.

We might well have wondered on here how a squad such as ours, possessing players of the apparent quality of Riordan, Bamba and Stokes could so easily succumb to the likes of Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone and not even hold its own. It was clearly felt to be under-performing. But not for one minute did folks think that our squad (numbering, for example, Cregg in its ranks) was the last word and didn't need improved upon.

We certainly recognised the lack of strength and height in certain positions. However, the overall calibre of player was not Yogi's biggest problem at the time. With the 2010 summer transfer window came Yogi's big chance to turn things around with a few key signings. That was his opportunity to demonstrate the next critical stage of that vision of his for squad development that he was always talking about.

By the time Yogi left in September serious questions were being asked about the likes of Hart and De Graaf but most folks still held out hope that they would come good and demonstrate the faith that had made them our key summer signings. Yet as time wore on it became clear that they were not going to deliver what we needed.

Then as we drew close to the end of 2010 we understood more readily the problems CC faced with the farcical situation he had to manage under which two-thirds of our squad were contemplating the search for a new club in six months time. Try motivating that lot to fight and scrap for one another!

The accusation of double-standards that you and a few others are directing at those who wanted Yogi out is misplaced. You need finally to get over this grieving process for John Hughes and move on. :greengrin

Good, and very accurate, post BEEJ.:top marks