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CRAZYHIBBY
25-01-2011, 08:25 AM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .

GreenPJ
25-01-2011, 08:33 AM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .

Oh no, now I won't sleep tonight :devil:

Brooster
25-01-2011, 08:34 AM
And Nish and Hogg :thumbsup:

bighairyfaeleith
25-01-2011, 08:35 AM
TBH we would miss a player of riordans calibre, miller is good on his day, but right now it's more important that we have a balanced squad all playing for the jersey. If that means we lose riordan and miller then so be it, although i'd prefer we achieved it with riordan still here:wink:

jonny
25-01-2011, 08:37 AM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .

Where did you hear? Local pub? Down the park? Greggs?

Leith Green
25-01-2011, 08:39 AM
Oh no, now I won't sleep tonight :devil:



I actually saw Thicot in the Leith asda the day after Ayr United game, the thought running through my head was I wonder if he is here signing a pre contract with Asda, heard they are looking for someone to fill in the George counter...

CRAZYHIBBY
25-01-2011, 08:46 AM
Where did you hear? Local pub? Down the park? Greggs?

my mate kev who works at easter road. He has been spot on with various comings and goings over the last year or so. A few posters on here know him too

blackpoolhibs
25-01-2011, 08:51 AM
I actually saw Thicot in the Leith asda the day after Ayr United game, the thought running through my head was I wonder if he is here signing a pre contract with Asda, heard they are looking for someone to fill in the George counter...

Perhaps he could get a job on the rigs, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, it would mean he wouldn't have to miss the games Calderwood will pick him for.

truehibernian
25-01-2011, 08:56 AM
Personally speaking I think the team and the football club could only improve if the four mentioned left. Bigger picture is that we need young, hungry, dedicated professionals who are striving to get to the next level in their careers.

For me, Derek's body language has been shocking and not what you expect from your vice captain and experienced team member. Absolutely no doubting his talent, and god given natural talent too, but for me he is a negative influence on those around him.

Liam Miller.....flatters to deceive. Good player, some lovely touches, but his heart is literally not in it and our midfield needs energy, drive and balance.

McBride......Hughes said he loved guys from Motherwell and Hamilton due to them having a working class edge and a hardness........sorry John, yet another of your howlers. Slow, no impact, when losing possession he is wearing lead boots it seems.

The only one I feel kind of sorry for is Thicot, as I think he has the makings or a decent squad player both defensively and in midfield when injuries/suspensions take hold.

I woke up yesterday with a smile on my face, as Calderwood is doing what we have all been shouting about for seasons. Getting some drive, energy and pace into the side, and some mental toughness. And again, me personally, am glad we are getting rid (hopefully) of the keepers. They are all much of a muchness, Stack has annoyed me in particular with his "injuries", Smith is just useless, and Brown's kicking is simply unacceptable at this level of football. It is truly time, and CC is acting on it, to tell these players what they are now going to be missing when they leave HIbernian Football Club.......they failed to seize the day and they are going to pay for it (other than Derek :greengrin as he will go on to a bigger and better contract)

jdships
25-01-2011, 09:00 AM
If we are absplutely honest ( and leaving the younger untried players out of it) surely there is nothing to fear if any of the first team aquad are thinking of leaving ..
2011 is a watershed at ER - the only way is up and if that is to be attained by Riorden ,Miller et al leaving so be it .
They have had their chance - time to move on

:flag:

offshorehibby
25-01-2011, 09:03 AM
Perhaps he could get a job on the rigs, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, it would mean he wouldn't have to miss the games Calderwood will pick him for.

NO:no way:

Leithenhibby
25-01-2011, 09:04 AM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .


No names mentioned in this article but, we will lose some players as CC has been giving many enough rope to hang themselves. He is s-l-o-w-l-y going through the squad with a fine-tooth comb and I'm optimistic, BUT, that is part of being a Hibbie :greengrin

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/3369093/Hibs-closing-in-on-the-double.html

aberhibsfc
25-01-2011, 09:06 AM
TBH we would miss a player of riordans calibre, miller is good on his day, but right now it's more important that we have a balanced squad all playing for the jersey. If that means we lose riordan and miller then so be it, although i'd prefer we achieved it with riordan still here:wink:

:agree:

I would prefer to keep them both. It's the players perogative to be seeking employment elsewhere, if Hibs are not planning too, it's only common sense. Whether it would be common sense for other clubs to be keen to get them on board, well, that's another matter. Whilst I think all will find new clubs if necessary, they will not be in such a good bargaining position regards their worth. In most cases I'd be surprised if they could better their Hibs deals.

I guess even if Hibs wanted some of them, it's still in the players self-interest to see what's out there.

I'd still like to see Miller, Riordan and Zemmama being part of Hibs new batch. We might not be witnessing it, but they have qualities above and beyond the others.

.Sean.
25-01-2011, 09:13 AM
I take it Miller will be talking to some big English clubs about his dream return to the Premiership?

ronaldo7
25-01-2011, 09:37 AM
Personally speaking I think the team and the football club could only improve if the four mentioned left. Bigger picture is that we need young, hungry, dedicated professionals who are striving to get to the next level in their careers.

For me, Derek's body language has been shocking and not what you expect from your vice captain and experienced team member. Absolutely no doubting his talent, and god given natural talent too, but for me he is a negative influence on those around him.

Liam Miller.....flatters to deceive. Good player, some lovely touches, but his heart is literally not in it and our midfield needs energy, drive and balance.

McBride......Hughes said he loved guys from Motherwell and Hamilton due to them having a working class edge and a hardness........sorry John, yet another of your howlers. Slow, no impact, when losing possession he is wearing lead boots it seems.

The only one I feel kind of sorry for is Thicot, as I think he has the makings or a decent squad player both defensively and in midfield when injuries/suspensions take hold.

I woke up yesterday with a smile on my face, as Calderwood is doing what we have all been shouting about for seasons. Getting some drive, energy and pace into the side, and some mental toughness. And again, me personally, am glad we are getting rid (hopefully) of the keepers. They are all much of a muchness, Stack has annoyed me in particular with his "injuries", Smith is just useless, and Brown's kicking is simply unacceptable at this level of football. It is truly time, and CC is acting on it, to tell these players what they are now going to be missing when they leave HIbernian Football Club.......they failed to seize the day and they are going to pay for it (other than Derek :greengrin as he will go on to a bigger and better contract)

Good post :top marks

Billy Whizz
25-01-2011, 09:45 AM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .


Maybe De Graaf as well if we're lucky!

J-C
25-01-2011, 10:02 AM
Although Deek is Hibs through and through, he is an enigma, on his day brilliant but when things aren't going so well, hands flapping about moaning to all and sundry, instead of getting stuck in and making things happen.

To be honest I've been very disappointed with the attitude of some of our more senior players......McBride/Miller/Riordan/Hart/Nish.........these are the guys that should be doing a hellova lot more but they just don't seem to care a hoot. Even if they know they're leaving soon, you would've thought professional pride would want them to finish on a high at ER, even at least to put themselves in the shop window for another club to come calling.

Bit sorry for Thicot as I do rate him, very comfortable on the ball, never gets flustered and can play in a good variety of position, a good squad player.

Golden Bear
25-01-2011, 10:06 AM
If we are absplutely honest ( and leaving the younger untried players out of it) surely there is nothing to fear if any of the first team aquad are thinking of leaving ..
2011 is a watershed at ER - the only way is up and if that is to be attained by Riorden ,Miller et al leaving so be it .
They have had their chance - time to move on

:flag:

:agree:

I totally agree.

GreenCastle
25-01-2011, 10:08 AM
Don't see it as an issue - get rid of the deadwood :agree:

Andy74
25-01-2011, 10:12 AM
my mate kev who works at easter road. He has been spot on with various comings and goings over the last year or so. A few posters on here know him too

I'm sure Kev who works at Easter Road will be delighted that his bosses get to read that he leaks information to the general public.

And on topic, I couldn't care who leaves now, fans favourites or not, no-one has done enough to be fit to wear the green for much longer.

smurf
25-01-2011, 10:18 AM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous. And the irony of it being fair game to knock and question, a living playing legend on here, whilst it provoking outrage should you dare question our boards role, isn't lost on me either....:wink:

He's like many of us quite obviously very frustrated at where we are. He is a player all about scoring goals. And despite this thus far being a poor season by his standards he's still ahead of the rest in scoring goals and assists.

We should be absolutely looking to retain and extend him. And building a side around him so he can up his scoring and create for others.

IMHO he's key to our survival. Do not underestimate the ability of a prolific goalscorer who scores special goals out of nothing.

Looking at his two spells at ER he has been in the main a very consistent player.

We're in trouble IF our Management share some of the crazy opinions on here that Derek is part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

bawheid
25-01-2011, 10:26 AM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous.

I don't. He's a senior player in a team which has been absolutely honking for over a year. He's the main striker in a side which doesn't score goals. He deserves as much criticism as the rest of them, "living legend" or not.

Personally, I would get rid of the lot of them (bar the kids) and start again in the summer.

Pretty Boy
25-01-2011, 10:29 AM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous. And the irony of it being fair game to knock and question, a living playing legend on here, whilst it provoking outrage should you dare question our boards role, isn't lost on me either....:wink:

He's like many of us quite obviously very frustrated at where we are. He is a player all about scoring goals. And despite this thus far being a poor season by his standards he's still ahead of the rest in scoring goals and assists.

We should be absolutely looking to retain and extend him. And building a side around him so he can up his scoring and create for others.
IMHO he's key to our survival. Do not underestimate the ability of a prolific goalscorer who scores special goals out of nothing.

Looking at his two spells at ER he has been in the main a very consistent player.

We're in trouble IF our Management share some of the crazy opinions on here that Derek is part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

I would think trying to build a team around Derek Riordan would be a very hard task. How exactly do you build a team around someone who is not a team player?

Numerous pundits and various ex Hibs players have pointed out that Derek Riordan plays for Derek Riordan, he doesn't play for the team. Surely even those most firmly in the 'Team Riordan' camp can see this?

I like Riordan, on his day he brings something to our team that few other players could. He scores goals out of nothing and is capable of passes and shots that other players in our team couldn't dream of. However if he fancies a shot from 30 yards when someone else is in a better position, he'll shoot. If he misses a chance you can be sure it will be the pass to blame, if he chases down the goalkeeper from a pass back he's out the game for at least 30 seconds whilst he strolls back onside. If things aren't going his way there won't be a willingness to go searching for the ball, to chase and press and snap to get on the ball, there will however be arms flapping, shouting, swearing and moaning aplenty. For me Derek Riordan isn't someone to build a team around, he's someone who has to be accomodated into a team.

Bobo
25-01-2011, 10:30 AM
I thought Liam Miller still had a year left on his contract at ER, so how can any clubs be talking to him? If he was to leave it would have to be on a transfer surely.

If Hibs have told him to seek another club then that's a different matter but I'd have thought that Rod would want a hand in any dealings and wouldn't leave it up to the player :confused:

Andy74
25-01-2011, 10:31 AM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous. And the irony of it being fair game to knock and question, a living playing legend on here, whilst it provoking outrage should you dare question our boards role, isn't lost on me either....:wink:

He's like many of us quite obviously very frustrated at where we are. He is a player all about scoring goals. And despite this thus far being a poor season by his standards he's still ahead of the rest in scoring goals and assists.

We should be absolutely looking to retain and extend him. And building a side around him so he can up his scoring and create for others.

IMHO he's key to our survival. Do not underestimate the ability of a prolific goalscorer who scores special goals out of nothing.

Looking at his two spells at ER he has been in the main a very consistent player.

We're in trouble IF our Management share some of the crazy opinions on here that Derek is part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

Actually, Derek is a good example of the Board's situation here.

Brought back to Hibs in a time when we were spending on the training centre and stadium at close to our record transfer fee and amongst the top earners.

Currently being outclassed by the likes of Ayr United where he didn't look out of place against part time defenders from the second division.

Of course he has a great scoring record but for me he's great at scoring spectacular goals from nothing but can more often than not provide an imbalance to the team as we try to accomodate someone who isn't really a striker, won't get goals from poaching or one on ones and doesn't have the game to play further back.

If he was single handedly showing his class every week and we just weren't managing to help him any more I'd buy all this. Like Liam Miller he is a player who we should expect to lead by example and not only play when you can get a good team around them.

Sorry, but nobody in this current team could say that a team should be built around them and I'd not be sorry to see any of them go, regardless of who they are and what they may have done in the past.

GreenPJ
25-01-2011, 10:32 AM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous. And the irony of it being fair game to knock and question, a living playing legend on here, whilst it provoking outrage should you dare question our boards role, isn't lost on me either....:wink:

He's like many of us quite obviously very frustrated at where we are. He is a player all about scoring goals. And despite this thus far being a poor season by his standards he's still ahead of the rest in scoring goals and assists.

We should be absolutely looking to retain and extend him. And building a side around him so he can up his scoring and create for others.

IMHO he's key to our survival. Do not underestimate the ability of a prolific goalscorer who scores special goals out of nothing.

Looking at his two spells at ER he has been in the main a very consistent player.

We're in trouble IF our Management share some of the crazy opinions on here that Derek is part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

Whilst I think the majority of people would agree on Deek's natural ability to score goals from nothing on occassion, the issue we have now is we are fighting relegation. Teams who are used to fighting relegation successfully (St Mirren on the last 3 seasons for example) have players up front who get stuck in, defend from the front, nick the odd goal and has to date seen them stay up. That is what we need as a solution now.

Maybe in a re-modelled team we can afford a Deek but in reality that is not going to happen until next season by which time he will have made up his own mind what he is doing (unless he already has).

smurf
25-01-2011, 10:36 AM
He doesn't play for the team?

I would be amazed if when he plays there is any player who contributes over the piece with more assists for others.

Is that not for the team?

He generally always tends to be top goalscorer.

Is that not to the benefit of the entire team?

Watching us play has been grim for a very long time (since the end of 2007) and for many its only wee bits of Deek magic since his Aug 2008 return that gives us something to smile about.

Young kids identify with him. He's a player to enjoy but because he doesn't work like that player of no ability whatsoever Rankin for some it's a problem....

"He's one of our own...".

That's the problem. Jelousy. If he was Dereko Riordano from Nantes in France he wouldn't get half the criticism he gets IMHO.

GreenPJ
25-01-2011, 10:48 AM
He doesn't play for the team?

I would be amazed if when he plays there is any player who contributes over the piece with more assists for others.

Is that not for the team?

He generally always tends to be top goalscorer.

Is that not to the benefit of the entire team?

Watching us play has been grim for a very long time (since the end of 2007) and for many its only wee bits of Deek magic since his Aug 2008 return that gives us something to smile about.

Young kids identify with him. He's a player to enjoy but because he doesn't work like that player of no ability whatsoever Rankin for some it's a problem....

"He's one of our own...".

That's the problem. Jelousy. If he was Dereko Riordano from Nantes in France he wouldn't get half the criticism he gets IMHO.


I don't get this. Why would people be jealous? Its great to have players who support the club play for the club.

Is the problem that because he is 'one of our own' he should be exempt from criticism?

blackpoolhibs
25-01-2011, 10:48 AM
Actually, Derek is a good example of the Board's situation here.

Brought back to Hibs in a time when we were spending on the training centre and stadium at close to our record transfer fee and amongst the top earners.

Currently being outclassed by the likes of Ayr United where he didn't look out of place against part time defenders from the second division.

Of course he has a great scoring record but for me he's great at scoring spectacular goals from nothing but can more often than not provide an imbalance to the team as we try to accomodate someone who isn't really a striker, won't get goals from poaching or one on ones and doesn't have the game to play further back.

If he was single handedly showing his class every week and we just weren't managing to help him any more I'd buy all this. Like Liam Miller he is a player who we should expect to lead by example and not only play when you can get a good team around them.

Sorry, but nobody in this current team could say that a team should be built around them and I'd not be sorry to see any of them go, regardless of who they are and what they may have done in the past.

If a team struggles, its always those maverick types like Riordan that people want to replace with a workhorse, as if its thats what we need more of. For me its the opposite thats needed, its more quality we need, and if its quality that works harder all the better. What we don't want is to fill the side with robots, its a balance thats needed, and i see a place for Derek in that. Saying that, if they decide to replace him with better, then there can be no complaints either.

PeterboroHibee
25-01-2011, 10:52 AM
Dont see the problem with players talking to other clubs, they are out of contract soon and its fair enough that they are trying to sort out where they are going next, especially those who have been told they can leave.

Wouldnt say any of them are really up to the standard required, so hopefully if they sign precontracts we can get even a bit of cash from the other clubs for them moving on.

smurf
25-01-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't get this. Why would people be jealous? Its great to have players who support the club play for the club.

Is the problem that because he is 'one of our own' he should be exempt from criticism?

No but IMHO there has always been throughout his time at ER a small minority far too quick to jump on his back.

I think it's because he's a local laddie.

All the off field nonsense that's raised as well. I think jelousy does play a part.

jiggerman
25-01-2011, 10:58 AM
I dont think anyone doubts Riordan's ability to shoot and play the killer pass/cross, but many are frustrated by him. With Riordan you get so much in one area, and so little in others - he's imbalanced. Terrifically good at shooting/crossing/through passes but quite bad at holding the ball up, winning a tackle, getting a flick ons etc. etc.

Deek has been one of the best players I have watched for Hibs over his two spells here, but I have to be honest and say my patience has been tested this season. No doubt augmented by our poor form I hasten to add.

This season, and Riordan's performances (as a senior player and occaisonal captain), have led me to doubt his qualities outweigh the benefits of a balanced team who are together and battle for the cause. Ironically, our dear neighbours are a good example of that this season - they dont have any players like Riordan (both his good bits and bad bits), but are more balanced etc etc.

I really am in no mans land with this one. Do we try and improve those around Riordan to bring the best out of him as shown to great effect under Mowbray? Or
are we to be a little more realistic and build a squad of good players, who are young and hungry to further themselves (a trait Hibs have not been bringing in recently and that has a big part to playin our poor form over the last year)?

Thats CC's job, and its not an easy one at that.

J

Perspective
25-01-2011, 11:09 AM
Well I think Riordan should move on and it's in no way motivated by jealousy.

Can you not have an alternative view without being written off in this way?

hibs0666
25-01-2011, 11:20 AM
No but IMHO there has always been throughout his time at ER a small minority far too quick to jump on his back.

I think it's because he's a local laddie.

All the off field nonsense that's raised as well. I think jelousy does play a part.


I think its more disappointment than jealousy. I would have loved to have seen Riordan's career emulate Fletcher and O'Connor as he has more ability than both of them put together.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the same desire and application to really become the best that he could possibly be, which is a real shame.

HIBERNIAN-0762
25-01-2011, 11:22 AM
I actually saw Thicot in the Leith asda the day after Ayr United game, the thought running through my head was I wonder if he is here signing a pre contract with Asda, heard they are looking for someone to fill in the George counter...


:top marks

chrisski33
25-01-2011, 11:25 AM
id poss keep deeks but punt the rest now esp if they are talking to other clubs! we need players who will fight to keep us up! miller can gtf to be honest

Prawn Sandwich
25-01-2011, 11:30 AM
I've seen enough, I am sure CC has seen enough..........punt the lot with no exceptions apart from the youngsters who have come through the development scheme namely Wotherspoon, Hanlon and Booth.

khib70
25-01-2011, 11:40 AM
If a team struggles, its always those maverick types like Riordan that people want to replace with a workhorse, as if its thats what we need more of. For me its the opposite thats needed, its more quality we need, and if its quality that works harder all the better. What we don't want is to fill the side with robots, its a balance thats needed, and i see a place for Derek in that. Saying that, if they decide to replace him with better, then there can be no complaints either.
I think you're more or less right on the money here BH. I've been incredibly frustrated with Riordan's underperforming and lack of a meaningful contribution during the current slump, and I sympathise with anyone else who feels the same way.

But I think the bit in bold is the vital point here. It's a fact of life with football fans that when performance standards slump, expectations slump with them. At times, recently, I think I've accidentally strayed into a Rugby League forum. Everybody wants "grafters" who will "run through a brick wall" "murder their own granny" etc.

The problem is that the likes of Riordan and (dare I say it) Miller, may become demoralised and lose their physical edge, but they still have their talent. On the other hand, if the lower-league, sweat-stained erse kickers some people seem to want become demoralised and lose their edge, they've got nothing left.

It's not black and white. It's quite possible to have football talent and have an aggressive, competitive edge. It's possible to build a team around players with a balance of these qualities. But to attempt to rise above the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren by signing exactly the same sort of players that have got them where they are, is a waste of time. Bringing in a team of hard working mediocrities is a short term fix at best and a recipe for disaster at worst. Because once the Hamiltons and St Mirrens have been relegated - we're next.

JimBHibees
25-01-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm sure Kev who works at Easter Road will be delighted that his bosses get to read that he leaks information to the general public.

And on topic, I couldn't care who leaves now, fans favourites or not, no-one has done enough to be fit to wear the green for much longer.

That would be my view also we need a root and branch clearout and a new culture put in place.

greenlex
25-01-2011, 12:04 PM
That would be my view also we need a root and branch clearout and a new culture put in place.

I think the seeds of that culture is in place. It's one of the reasons we may not see Brown between the sticks again( fir a while anyway). If he had just dropped him fir his kicking it would have been to the bench.

blackpoolhibs
25-01-2011, 12:23 PM
I think you're more or less right on the money here BH. I've been incredibly frustrated with Riordan's underperforming and lack of a meaningful contribution during the current slump, and I sympathise with anyone else who feels the same way.

But I think the bit in bold is the vital point here. It's a fact of life with football fans that when performance standards slump, expectations slump with them. At times, recently, I think I've accidentally strayed into a Rugby League forum. Everybody wants "grafters" who will "run through a brick wall" "murder their own granny" etc.

The problem is that the likes of Riordan and (dare I say it) Miller, may become demoralised and lose their physical edge, but they still have their talent. On the other hand, if the lower-league, sweat-stained erse kickers some people seem to want become demoralised and lose their edge, they've got nothing left.

It's not black and white. It's quite possible to have football talent and have an aggressive, competitive edge. It's possible to build a team around players with a balance of these qualities. But to attempt to rise above the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren by signing exactly the same sort of players that have got them where they are, is a waste of time. Bringing in a team of hard working mediocrities is a short term fix at best and a recipe for disaster at worst. Because once the Hamiltons and St Mirrens have been relegated - we're next.

:agree: :top marks Absolutely spot on.

TornadoHibby
25-01-2011, 02:41 PM
I think its more disappointment than jealousy. I would have loved to have seen Riordan's career emulate Fletcher and O'Connor as he has more ability than both of them put together.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the same desire and application to really become the best that he could possibly be, which is a real shame.

He doesn't have their pace either and in the EPL that is an absolute pre-requisite to perform to required standards down there IMO! :agree:

David Murphy is a prime example of a player in the EPL who lacks pace but has many other fine attributes! :agree:

He was responsible (played no active part in preventing when he could have done witth more pace) for at least two of Man Utd's goals on Saturday past and I wouldn't be surprised if McLeish drops him for the Carling Cup semi tomorrow night! :cool2:

There are dozens of EPL players who could give top sprinters a decent run for their money and that's what those with little pace are up against too often in game time!

truehibernian
25-01-2011, 02:50 PM
He doesn't have their pace either and in the EPL that is an absolute pre-requisite to perform to required standards down there IMO! :agree:

David Murphy is a prime example of a player in the EPL who lacks pace but has many other fine attributes! :agree:

He was responsible (played no active part in preventing when he could have done witth more pace) for at least two of Man Utd's goals on Saturday past and I wouldn't be surprised if McLeish drops him for the Carling Cup semi tomorrow night! :cool2:

There are dozens of EPL players who could give top sprinters a decent run for their money and that's what those with little pace are up against too often in game time!

:agree: Bang on the money, good post.

For too long Hibs have lacked genuine pace and drive. Sproule and Brown (when on form) had it in shed loads. But we lack it all over the pitch and that makes us both predictably one paced and susceptible to pace ourselves (Goodwillie, Templeton, Humphreys, Weiss.........)

I am heartened though reading all the comments from fans of Forest and County who each say about our new signings having pace, energy and drive. I am quite positive this week that CC is starting the cull and being quite ruthless about it too.........long time coming.

GloryGlory
25-01-2011, 02:57 PM
I think you're more or less right on the money here BH. I've been incredibly frustrated with Riordan's underperforming and lack of a meaningful contribution during the current slump, and I sympathise with anyone else who feels the same way.

But I think the bit in bold is the vital point here. It's a fact of life with football fans that when performance standards slump, expectations slump with them. At times, recently, I think I've accidentally strayed into a Rugby League forum. Everybody wants "grafters" who will "run through a brick wall" "murder their own granny" etc.

The problem is that the likes of Riordan and (dare I say it) Miller, may become demoralised and lose their physical edge, but they still have their talent. On the other hand, if the lower-league, sweat-stained erse kickers some people seem to want become demoralised and lose their edge, they've got nothing left.

It's not black and white. It's quite possible to have football talent and have an aggressive, competitive edge. It's possible to build a team around players with a balance of these qualities. But to attempt to rise above the likes of Hamilton and St Mirren by signing exactly the same sort of players that have got them where they are, is a waste of time. Bringing in a team of hard working mediocrities is a short term fix at best and a recipe for disaster at worst. Because once the Hamiltons and St Mirrens have been relegated - we're next.

It depends on the underlying strategy.

This transfer window - get in 3 or 4 (minimum) who are going to be prepared to put in a shift and hopefully this is enough to galvanise the team and we avoid relegation. Those 3 or 4 will be good squad players next season

End of the season - get the dross out the door quicksmart!

Summer transfer window - get in the quality that will lift us up the league, if 14/15 leave at the end of the season, spread that budget over a smaller amount of players to get better quality - say, 9/10. Give the younger players a chance as well.

jacomo
25-01-2011, 03:46 PM
I have a slight fear that CC's model looks something like Bolton under Sam Alladyce - strong, hard working, plays the percentages... and very very ugly.

Some on here seem almost delighted to get rid of anyone with a bit of guile or class about them - I find that quite depressing.

Jones28
25-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Miller, Mcbride and Thicot im not fussed about.

Tbh, in the last few weeks with his form, Riordan would not be irreplaceable.

JimBHibees
25-01-2011, 04:02 PM
I have a slight fear that CC's model looks something like Bolton under Sam Alladyce - strong, hard working, plays the percentages... and very very ugly.

Some on here seem almost delighted to get rid of anyone with a bit of guile or class about them - I find that quite depressing.

I think the Allardyce comparison is extreme and also Adams had Ross County playing decent football alot of which was provided by the guy we have just signed. He is though no doubt trying to bring in a more competitive and physical kind of player who can play also which I think is exactly the right balance at present. Given the completely gutless performance at Somerset Park last week I would be amazed if he was trying to do anything different to what he appears to be doing.

DH1875
25-01-2011, 06:38 PM
And Nish and Hogg :thumbsup:

You will be surprised. I'll bet that after Deeks and Miller Nish ends up at a bigger club than the rest.


Sure it's good to clear the dead wood but what would happen if all 16 players left this week? Would we be able to get enough in before the window closes next week, doubt it which would really put the threat of relegation closer.

Gala Foxes
25-01-2011, 06:46 PM
from what i hear , riordan miller mcbride and thicot have been talking to other clubs about possible moves .

none of that phases me in the slightest - you would expect them to given the fact their contracts are up. One things for sure nobody will be paying any January window cash for 3 of the 4 or Nish/Hogg

Diclonius
25-01-2011, 06:56 PM
I wonder if McBride will make a return to Falkirk? :tee hee:

PC Stamp
25-01-2011, 07:02 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... only when Riordan has gone will we appreciate what we had. What Riordan needs is a Garry O'Connor type alongside him to do the spadework and rumble up opposition defenders. That then affords Derek the space to do what he does best. I'd hoped Darryl Duffy might have been that man but so far it doesn't look as though Darryl's the GO'C type. Russell Latapy as another example didn't have to work too hard with such as John O'Neil and Matty Jack to do the donkey work for him and look out for him. But instead as Blackpool Hibby says, we'll likely chase away any footballers we have and fill the team with workhorses. Might see us get a few players in Specky's Scotland squad eventually but it'll be neck braces and dark glasses fitba' we're watching as a result! As long as we don't mump and moan about the lack of flair and that because we're wishing it on ourselves. :wink:

Perspective
25-01-2011, 07:16 PM
Who amongst Riordan's critics wants to see flair driven out of the club?

Why are flair and hard work deemed mutually exclusive on here?

Keep going back to this, but you only have to look at Barcelona to see how hard their players work. If it's good enough for the likes of Messi and Villa, why is it somehow beneath Riordan?

Lago
25-01-2011, 07:36 PM
I think the criticism directed at Riordan is pretty ridiculous. And the irony of it being fair game to knock and question, a living playing legend on here, whilst it provoking outrage should you dare question our boards role, isn't lost on me either....:wink:

He's like many of us quite obviously very frustrated at where we are. He is a player all about scoring goals. And despite this thus far being a poor season by his standards he's still ahead of the rest in scoring goals and assists.

We should be absolutely looking to retain and extend him. And building a side around him so he can up his scoring and create for others.

IMHO he's key to our survival. Do not underestimate the ability of a prolific goalscorer who scores special goals out of nothing.

Looking at his two spells at ER he has been in the main a very consistent player.

We're in trouble IF our Management share some of the crazy opinions on here that Derek is part of the problem as opposed to the solution.

He's definately not the solution.

smurf
25-01-2011, 07:51 PM
He's definately not the solution.

Why not?

Prolific goalscorer is a problem and not a solution...

Deary me.

TPAKA
25-01-2011, 11:58 PM
Call me old fashioned but I just thought you picked people to do their jobs. A defender defends, defensive midfielders shield, creative midfielders create & attackers/strikers create & score.

I've never really been into the whole, "I'll chase this ball 50 yards into a corner that I'm getting nowhere 'cos the crowd will appreciate it" thing. Waste of a 50 yard run!!

Anywho. In relation to the players talking to other clubs, nothing wrong or peculiar with that. This happens every season with every transfer window. Players will naturally come & go, as long as we replace them with one's who are able to make an immediate difference, keep us in the SPL & hopefully progress us long term we should be sorted.!!!

Ehm, if no, then we're ****ed.

Mickey Edwards
26-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Call me old fashioned but I just thought you picked people to do their jobs. A defender defends, defensive midfielders shield, creative midfielders create & attackers/strikers create & score.
I've never really been into the whole, "I'll chase this ball 50 yards into a corner that I'm getting nowhere 'cos the crowd will appreciate it" thing. Waste of a 50 yard run!!

Anywho. In relation to the players talking to other clubs, nothing wrong or peculiar with that. This happens every season with every transfer window. Players will naturally come & go, as long as we replace them with one's who are able to make an immediate difference, keep us in the SPL & hopefully progress us long term we should be sorted.!!!

Ehm, if no, then we're ****ed.

Call me progressive, but if Samuel Eto'o can be persuaded to play rt back as part of a winning formula then an ambitious player these days has to work on all his assets , not just the ones he enjoys using. If the gaffer can't persuade personnel to think out the box we won't improve .

jdships
26-01-2011, 11:15 AM
Not given to going down the "rumour mill" line for obvious reasons but this one may have some credibilty .
Was in the company of one of the youth coaching staff yesterday and he said Riorden had "Intimeted to the club" he is to have talks with Burnley re a "pre contract" .
On the matter of CC/DA he said they have " .. a refreshing approach to man management and make themselves available to any player/staff who want a chat .... "

Time will tell as usual !!
:rolleyes:

Perspective
26-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Call me old fashioned but I just thought you picked people to do their jobs. A defender defends, defensive midfielders shield, creative midfielders create & attackers/strikers create & score.
I've never really been into the whole, "I'll chase this ball 50 yards into a corner that I'm getting nowhere 'cos the crowd will appreciate it" thing. Waste of a 50 yard run!!

Anywho. In relation to the players talking to other clubs, nothing wrong or peculiar with that. This happens every season with every transfer window. Players will naturally come & go, as long as we replace them with one's who are able to make an immediate difference, keep us in the SPL & hopefully progress us long term we should be sorted.!!!

Ehm, if no, then we're ****ed.

Call me progressive, but if Samuel Eto'o can be persuaded to play rt back as part of a winning formula then an ambitious player these days has to work on all his assets , not just the ones he enjoys using. If the gaffer can't persuade personnel to think out the box we won't improve .

:top marks

Petrie's Tache
26-01-2011, 11:44 AM
Not given to going down the "rumour mill" line for obvious reasons but this one may have some credibilty .
Was in the company of one of the youth coaching staff yesterday and he said Riorden had "Intimeted to the club" he is to have talks with Burnley re a "pre contract" .
On the matter of CC/DA he said they have " .. a refreshing approach to man management and make themselves available to any player/staff who want a chat .... "

Time will tell as usual !!
:rolleyes:

Maybe why we are linked with Thomson, he may come the other way?

--------
26-01-2011, 11:59 AM
Personally speaking I think the team and the football club could only improve if the four mentioned left. Bigger picture is that we need young, hungry, dedicated professionals who are striving to get to the next level in their careers.

For me, Derek's body language has been shocking and not what you expect from your vice captain and experienced team member. Absolutely no doubting his talent, and god given natural talent too, but for me he is a negative influence on those around him.

Liam Miller.....flatters to deceive. Good player, some lovely touches, but his heart is literally not in it and our midfield needs energy, drive and balance.

McBride......Hughes said he loved guys from Motherwell and Hamilton due to them having a working class edge and a hardness........sorry John, yet another of your howlers. Slow, no impact, when losing possession he is wearing lead boots it seems.

The only one I feel kind of sorry for is Thicot, as I think he has the makings or a decent squad player both defensively and in midfield when injuries/suspensions take hold.

I woke up yesterday with a smile on my face, as Calderwood is doing what we have all been shouting about for seasons. Getting some drive, energy and pace into the side, and some mental toughness. And again, me personally, am glad we are getting rid (hopefully) of the keepers. They are all much of a muchness, Stack has annoyed me in particular with his "injuries", Smith is just useless, and Brown's kicking is simply unacceptable at this level of football. It is truly time, and CC is acting on it, to tell these players what they are now going to be missing when they leave HIbernian Football Club.......they failed to seize the day and they are going to pay for it (other than Derek :greengrin as he will go on to a bigger and better contract)

Good post, TH.

IMO Calderwood has had to sift through a squad made up of one or two relics from Mowbray's time, a few of Mixu's signings who really haven't worked out, and a great bundle of Hughes' signings - a mixture of ignorant impulse buys, panic signings, "this guy played in Holland/the EPL/Lithuania so he must be good" deals, and his old trusty default "when in doubt sign someone from Falkirk" signings.

Some of them may be decent players in the right team set-up, but if Hughes had any sort of organised team set-up in view when he signed them, then I'm favourite to win next years 'X-Factor' - as an exotic dancer....

It WILL take longer than we anticipated to sort this out. The squad right now is an unadulterated hotch-potch of the old, the lazy, and the over-rated, with a few good players caught up in the middle.

The way forward seems to be a combination of using the best of our young players (how long have we been talking about this without actually doing anything about it?) and a core of new signings who can bring drive and leadership to the team. If Calderwood and Adams do this, and keep doing it, I for one won't worry too much about 'silky football' or 'wionning with style'. I just want to see the team winning for a change, and 1-0 and boring will suit me - at least until we're sure of staying up. But i don't really think that that's what CC has in mind.

Bad Martini
26-01-2011, 12:19 PM
Call me old fashioned but I just thought you picked people to do their jobs. A defender defends, defensive midfielders shield, creative midfielders create & attackers/strikers create & score.

I've never really been into the whole, "I'll chase this ball 50 yards into a corner that I'm getting nowhere 'cos the crowd will appreciate it" thing. Waste of a 50 yard run!!

Anywho. In relation to the players talking to other clubs, nothing wrong or peculiar with that. This happens every season with every transfer window. Players will naturally come & go, as long as we replace them with one's who are able to make an immediate difference, keep us in the SPL & hopefully progress us long term we should be sorted.!!!

Ehm, if no, then we're ****ed.

Scarpuss is spot on IMHO.

And there's at least one other player outwith those mentioned looking for another club....:agree:

TPAKA
26-01-2011, 02:34 PM
Call me old fashioned but I just thought you picked people to do their jobs. A defender defends, defensive midfielders shield, creative midfielders create & attackers/strikers create & score.
I've never really been into the whole, "I'll chase this ball 50 yards into a corner that I'm getting nowhere 'cos the crowd will appreciate it" thing. Waste of a 50 yard run!!

Anywho. In relation to the players talking to other clubs, nothing wrong or peculiar with that. This happens every season with every transfer window. Players will naturally come & go, as long as we replace them with one's who are able to make an immediate difference, keep us in the SPL & hopefully progress us long term we should be sorted.!!!

Ehm, if no, then we're ****ed.

Call me progressive, but if Samuel Eto'o can be persuaded to play rt back as part of a winning formula then an ambitious player these days has to work on all his assets , not just the ones he enjoys using. If the gaffer can't persuade personnel to think out the box we won't improve .

Hi Progressive,

Seems an idea. We'll sign Eto'o & play him right back. Possibly when you also have the luxury of players like Milito, Pandev etc & a whole host of world class players around the club they can afford to play players in positions not entirely natural to them.

Are you suggesting then that Eto'o will be playing the rest of the season or his career at Right Back? Of course not, he'll be back up front soon enough doing what's expected of him.

By the same argument we'll stick Rankin upfront then & expect 20-25 goals a season?

BEEJ
26-01-2011, 06:04 PM
On the matter of CC/DA he said they have " .. a refreshing approach to man management and make themselves available to any player/staff who want a chat .... "
In Ian Murray's recent interview when he was asked about CC and how he was regarded by the squad, Murray replied that "he's a breath of fresh air".

I thought at the time that this was an interesting way to word his response.