Gray & Keys put their foot in it - Gray sacked by Sky (merged)

[H18sry]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371642.stm And she got the big call right on Saturday :agree:

Full article


West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady said remarks by Sky Sports presenters Richard Keys and Andy Gray about a female official made her "blood boil".

Believing their microphones were off, Keys and Gray agreed that Sian Massey and other female assistant referees "did not know the offside rule."

The remarks were made before Saturday's match between Wolves and Liverpool.

"I don't think any of the comments were anything other than [sexism]," Brady told BBC Radio 5 live.

"Here is somebody coming into our game who deserves and warrants our respect."

England captain Rio Ferdinand was also critical of the veteran Sky pair.

The Manchester United defender said on Twitter: "I'm all for women refereeing in football, discrimination should not happen in our game at all ... prehistoric views if u think otherwise."

Host Keys and pundit Gray also discussed comments made by Brady in the Sun newspaper about the levels of sexism in football.

"See charming Karren Brady this morning complaining about sexism? Yeah. Do me a favour love," stated Keys.


But Brady said she was more concerned by their comments about the 25-year-old Massey's selection for the Premier League match.

Speaking ahead of the game, Keys added: "Somebody better get down there and explain offside to her."

Gray remarked: "Women don't know the offside rule."

Massey got a crucial call correct in the build-up to Liverpool's first goal and Brady, a former managing director of Birmingham City, felt the remarks showed a lack of respect.

"I just think it's unfair. Here is somebody doing a very important job under very difficult circumstances, who deserves and warrants our respect and here are two people who other people listen to and get their views from not giving her a chance," she said.

"Everyone is entitled to a personal opinion but what really upsets me is the fact that only females in our industry are judged by their gender and that is categorically wrong.

"I don't think any of the comments were anything other than [sexism]. You know 'we'd better go down and tell her the offside rule.' I'm surprised they didn't say 'we'd better go down and tell here to put the kettle on.'"

Sky Sports released a statement on Sunday night describing the comments as "unacceptable" and stating that Keys and Gray had apologised for their comments.

"I was very interested to see what Sky would do about it," added Brady. "And as far as I'm concerned they have had a slap on the wrist and that is it.

These were tongue-in-cheek comments and we are blowing something enormously out of proportion here

Rachel Heyhoe-Flint
"I'm genuinely disappointed. It never would have occurred to me that they had those views, whether public or private.

"It almost makes it worse that they're speaking when the microphones are not on as opposed to when they are on, because [they have] never really had the brass neck to say it publicly, they would only say it privately."

Alan Leighton, national secretary of referees' union Prospect, echoed Brady's sentiments.

"I think the comments are unacceptable," he said. "We need to move on from that. Women are in football at level they are at they are in on merit. They are evaluated and assessed in the same way as men.

"It was unacceptable because it was suggesting women have no role in football and what are they doing there?

"That is offensive to women who are desperately trying to get into being referees, to women who play football and watch football."

Former England women's cricket captain Rachel Heyhoe-Flint was supportive of Keys and Gray and described their exchange as "banter".

"I know Richard and Andy very well indeed," she told 5 live. "These were tongue-in-cheek comments and we are blowing something enormously out of proportion here."

The sexism debate even cropped up in Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish's press conference on Monday.

At the start, Dalglish jokingly asked Sky's male reporter whether he minded that there was a woman present.

[Gettin' Auld]

she got the big call right on Saturday :agree:
Made her man a good tea?

:greengrin

[The Voice Of Reason]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371642.stm And she got the big call right on Saturday :agree:

Brilliant :faf:

For the record, women are also rubbish drivers (of cars and golf balls) :devil:

[Removed]

Dinosaurs :agree:

[The Voice Of Reason]

In their defence though, women are good at things like knitting, cooking and netball. :agree:

[Gus Fring]

I think its a big deal over nowt. They made a joke based on a stereotype off air and someone has seen fit to release it. Apparently their being asked to step down from the Chelsea-Bolton game tonight.

I don't think either of them are irreplacable though.

Folk making a big deal about it because they fell they should make a big deal about it not cos they are actually bothered

[The Voice Of Reason]

I think its a big deal over nowt. They made a joke based on a stereotype off air and someone has seen fit to release it. Apparently their being asked to step down from the Chelsea-Bolton game tonight.

I don't think either of them are irreplacable though.

Folk making a big deal about it because they fell they should make a big deal about it not cos they are actually bothered

Agreed. :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

These 2 never learn. I'm sure there was a story last year about the pair of them forgetting to turn their microphones off then having a 5 minute debate over who farted in the studio.

They seem like a couple of overgrown bairns.

[Gettin' Auld]

Women Officials!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rExFsLZvKsg

[johnrebus]

Brady has got a bloody cheek. I may be wrong but IICR she has been most famous as working at football clubs (Birmingham City, West Ham) owned by people who made their money in pornography...........,


:confused:

[mr mojo risin]

Well said Andy and Richard.
Female officials should only referee womens football. :agree:

[Gus Fring]

Brady has got a bloody cheek. I may be wrong but IICR she has been most famous as working at football clubs (Birmingham City, West Ham) owned by people who made their money in pornography...........,


:confused:

Karren Brady is getting a bit like Yogi, sticking her beak into matters that don't concern her or West Ham

[Removed]

Just seen on SS news they have been stood down for tonights game :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

Well said Andy and Richard.
Female officials should only referee womens football. :agree:

Why?

[Baader]

Karren Brady should show Avram Grant some respect...

[Pretty Boy]

Well said Andy and Richard.
Female officials should only referee womens football. :agree:

So thats the point theye were trying to make? I see it now.

And there was me thinking this was just good old fashioned childish, s******ing sexism.

[Pretty Boy]

Just seen on SS news they have been stood down for tonights game :rolleyes:

Considering Ron Atkinson lost his job and has become virtually unemployable thanks to an offensive comment uttered whilst he thought his microphone was switched off i think the pair of them should be thankful they are only being 'stood down' for one game.

[Removed]

Considering Ron Atkinson lost his job and has become virtually unemployable thanks to an offensive comment uttered whilst he thought his microphone was switched off i think the pair of them should be thankful they are only being 'stood down' for one game.

True, but probably racist or homophobic comments made off air are deemed by many to be worse than sexist comments about women.

They can run the line or ref as far as I'm concerned. Can't be any worse than the men do it.

As long as they get ones with big chebs :agree:

[easty]

Considering Ron Atkinson lost his job and has become virtually unemployable thanks to an offensive comment uttered whilst he thought his microphone was switched off i think the pair of them should be thankful they are only being 'stood down' for one game.

It's not the same as the Ron Atkinson thing.

[Removed]

It's not the same as the Ron Atkinson thing.

Why not if it's offensive to some people?

[Pretty Boy]

It's not the same as the Ron Atkinson thing.

I'm aware that the content of what was said is far tamer than what Atkinson came out with. The fact is though that some folk love a resignation or a sacking and given the 'controversy' this has caused they should count themselves lucky Sky have kept them in their jobs.

Pity they didn't sack Gray though, slavering erse that he is.

[easty]

True, but probably racist or homophobic comments made off air are deemed by many to be worse than sexist comments about women.

They can run the line or ref as far as I'm concerned. Can't be any worse than the men do it.

Do male linesman(linesperson) get work in the female league games? If not then I'd assume this is a typical modern day case of 'positive action', which I don't particularly agree with.

Another typical modern day aspect of life involved in this situation is the publics ridiculous outcry over little more than nothing.

Oooooooooh Eastenders is crossing the line you can't film fiction about stealing a baby....

Oooooooooh Frankie Boyle made a joke that I didn't find funny....

Oooooooooh they don't believe women are as competent at being a linesman as men are......

I truly despair sometimes.

[Gus Fring]

Why not if it's offensive to some people?

Did Big Ron not make his comments on air?

[easty]

I'm aware that the content of what was said is far tamer than what Atkinson came out with. The fact is though that some folk love a resignation or a sacking and given the 'controversy' this has caused they should count themselves lucky Sky have kept them in their jobs.

Pity they didn't sack Gray though, slavering erse that he is.

I've absolutley nae argument with that!:agree:

[easty]

Why not if it's offensive to some people?

You're just trying to get a reaction here aren't you!:cool2: I won't bite.

[allezsauzee]

I'm just amazed that Andy Gray managed to say all that whilst having his tongue up Alex Ferguson's arse

[Removed]

Did Big Ron not make his comments on air?

Don't think so. IIRC he thought his mike was off.

[Removed]

You're just trying to get a reaction here aren't you!:cool2:I won't bite.

Not at all :wink:

I actually agree with your previous post. If the same rules applied to Hibs.net I'd have had a permanent ban a long time ago :whistle:

[marinello59]

The pair of them aren't really the brightest are they?

[zlatan]

How are they going to blame Platini for this?

[WeAreHibs]

Women are women, men are men. We're made differently and think differently. We're both better, naturally, at different things. How can we EVER be equal?? This whole equality thing gets right on my man boobs. I enjoy chivalry and being well mannered to everybody but I believe in "ladies first" etc etc.

Call me old fashioned if you like but, IMHO, there's not enough of it these days and that's where we're all going wrong.

As someone once said to me, how can you trust something that bleeds for 1 week every month and survives? :taxi

[Danderhall Hibs]

The pair of them aren't really the brightest are they?

No but they did say it to eachother, privately. Somebody at Sky obviously wants to stitch them up though.


How are they going to blame Platini for this?

He's in charge - if he had banned female officials they'd not have been able to discuss it. :agree:

[Beefster]

Do male linesman(linesperson) get work in the female league games? If not then I'd assume this is a typical modern day case of 'positive action', which I don't particularly agree with.

Another typical modern day aspect of life involved in this situation is the publics ridiculous outcry over little more than nothing.

Oooooooooh Eastenders is crossing the line you can't film fiction about stealing a baby....

Oooooooooh Frankie Boyle made a joke that I didn't find funny....

Oooooooooh they don't believe women are as competent at being a linesman as men are......

I truly despair sometimes.

Yes.

[Sandy]

True, but probably racist or homophobic comments made off air are deemed by many to be worse than sexist comments about women.

They can run the line or ref as far as I'm concerned. Can't be any worse than the men do it.

As long as they get ones with big chebs :agree:

:faf::faf::faf:

[Marabou Stork]

Is it any worse than what gets said on 'Loose Women' every day?

(Not that I'd ever watch such nonsense)

[Speedy]

Do male linesman(linesperson) get work in the female league games? If not then I'd assume this is a typical modern day case of 'positive action', which I don't particularly agree with.

Another typical modern day aspect of life involved in this situation is the publics ridiculous outcry over little more than nothing.

Oooooooooh Eastenders is crossing the line you can't film fiction about stealing a baby....

Oooooooooh Frankie Boyle made a joke that I didn't find funny....

Oooooooooh they don't believe women are as competent at being a linesman as men are......

I truly despair sometimes.

I think there are a lot of male officials in the womens game but I get the point you are trying to make.

There will never be absolute equality and there are things that men are better at than women(e.g. you don't see women complaining about equality when there's a heavy box to be lifted) but organisations have to be seen to distance themselves from these kind of comments and it is important to focus on the individuals ability to do the job rather than their gender.

[The Voice Of Reason]

True, but probably racist or homophobic comments made off air are deemed by many to be worse than sexist comments about women.

They can run the line or ref as far as I'm concerned. Can't be any worse than the men do it.

As long as they get ones with big chebs :agree:

:faf: :faf:

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Hopefully Gray is sacked!

He is a terrible commentator/pundit and does nothing but talk trash for 90 mins. Another guy who is only interested in the big teams

[heretoday]

Guys like Gray are just big bairns whose minds are mired back in the 1970s.

You'll never cure their kind of moronic attitudes which are endemic in British society.

I think there should be more women refs. Maybe the players would behave more like gentlemen, no?

Oh sorry. I forgot. It's a man's game!

[easty]

Guys like Gray are just big bairns whose minds are mired back in the 1970s.

You'll never cure their kind of moronic attitudes which are endemic in British society.

I think there should be more women refs. Maybe the players would behave more like gentlemen, no?

Oh sorry. I forgot. It's a man's game!

Where's the "some people are oh so over-sensitive" smillie when you need it??

And I do believe it's a mans game, do you watch a lot/any womens football? i don't see much, only when its on TV, so I'd assume only when its the 'good' players......they're bloody awful!

[heretoday]

Where's the "some people are oh so over-sensitive" smillie when you need it??

And I do believe it's a mans game, do you watch a lot/any womens football? i don't see much, only when its on TV, so I'd assume only when its the 'good' players......they're bloody awful!

What's that got to do with it? :confused:

[bigstu]

I think its a big deal over nowt. They made a joke based on a stereotype off air and someone has seen fit to release it. Apparently their being asked to step down from the Chelsea-Bolton game tonight.

I don't think either of them are irreplacable though.

Folk making a big deal about it because they fell they should make a big deal about it not cos they are actually bothered

:agree:

is no conversation private these days!?

[sesoim]

Do male linesman(linesperson) get work in the female league games? If not then I'd assume this is a typical modern day case of 'positive action', which I don't particularly agree with.

Another typical modern day aspect of life involved in this situation is the publics ridiculous outcry over little more than nothing.

Oooooooooh Eastenders is crossing the line you can't film fiction about stealing a baby....

Oooooooooh Frankie Boyle made a joke that I didn't find funny....

Oooooooooh they don't believe women are as competent at being a linesman as men are......

I truly despair sometimes.



:agree: It should be all or nothing. Either free speech for everybody about everything or nobody should be allowed an opinion fullstop. It kind of pees me off how comedians now continually make (rubbish) jokes about red haired people, French, Christians and other (generally) harmless subjects. And Jo brand can "joke" about how she wants to kill all men, and nothing is said. But we all know that there are certain subjects a British white guy dare not even discuss in public nowadays without being labelled a racist/sexist/homophobe.

Stephen K Amos and others llike him can come on TV and basically make a living on discussion programmes talking about how British straight white men need to be "educated" and "brought into the 21st Century". Yeah, maybe he and others want to take a look at Africa, Asia, South America, Eastern Europe......

The inconsistencies in this country infuriate me, but I know it is all about folk with a chip on their shoulder trying to get their own back at every opportunity.

[Pretty Boy]

:agree: It should be all or nothing. Either free speech for everybody about everything or nobody should be allowed an opinion fullstop. It kind of pees me off how comedians now continually make (rubbish) jokes about red haired people, French, Christians and other (generally) harmless subjects. And Jo brand can "joke" about how she wants to kill all men, and nothing is said. But we all know that there are certain subjects a British white guy dare not even discuss in public nowadays without being labelled a racist/sexist/homophobe.

Stephen K Amos and others llike him can come on TV and basically make a living on discussion programmes talking about how British straight white men need to be "educated" and "brought into the 21st Century". Yeah, maybe he and others want to take a look at Africa, Asia, South America, Eastern Europe......

The inconsistencies in this country infuriate me, but I know it is all about folk with a chip on their shoulder trying to get their own back at every opportunity.

If i'd has to sit through trash like 'Love thy Neighbour' or laugh at 'funnymen' like Bernard Manning, 'chubby' Brown and Jim Davidson all whilst reading newspaper like The Sun, The Mail and The Express with their barely concealed jingoism and xenophobia i'd probably have a chip on my shoulder as well.

[iwasthere1972]

Hopefully Gray is sacked!

He is a terrible commentator/pundit and does nothing but talk trash for 90 mins. Another guy who is only interested in the big teams

:agree:

His wife must have to hide the salt and pepper pots as well as the tomato ketchup bottle when he gets home for dinner.

[Brizo]

As others have said for Karen Brady to take the moral highground over sexism is a tad hypocritical given that shes made her fitba administrator career on the back of a couple of gadgies who made their money in porn.

As for the Sky 2 Andy Gray used to come into Cropleys during the close season back in the 80s , he was / is big buddys with Cropley. Possibly from Aston Villa days ? He always seemed a thoroughly decent down to earth guy. Keys on the other hand has always struck me as a smarmy two faced character

[Sir David Gray]

It's the fact that this female assistant actually got the offside call correct that is the real problem here.

Taking their comments on their own, I don't think it's any different to loads and loads of comments that you hear from women presenters all the time, slagging off men for the things that they are supposedly useless at.

You don't hear those females being suspended or disciplined for their comments.

[CropleyWasGod]

It's the fact that this female assistant actually got the offside call correct that is the real problem here.

Taking their comments on their own, I don't think it's any different to loads and loads of comments that you hear from women presenters all the time, slagging off men for the things that they are supposedly useless at.

You don't hear those females being suspended or disciplined for their comments.

Like whom? Other than the couple on Soccer AM, which is supposed to be light-hearted, I can't say I have heard much. Certainly not "loads and loads" "all the time".

[essexhibee]

Hopefully Gray is sacked!

He is a terrible commentator/pundit and does nothing but talk trash for 90 mins. Another guy who is only interested in the big teams

Agree 100%. Cant stand gray and his continually moaning at referees.

[Sir David Gray]

Like whom? Other than the couple on Soccer AM, which is supposed to be light-hearted, I can't say I have heard much. Certainly not "loads and loads" "all the time".

This Morning and Loose Women to name but two, just off the top of my head.

Not that I watch these programmes too often...:rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

This Morning and Loose Women to name but two, just off the top of my head.

Not that I watch these programmes too often...:rolleyes:

Yeah yeah :wink:

Ok, if they do make offensive comments, then yes, they should be done for it. But it needs someone to take offence.... which is, of course, a subjective stance.

Is it the case that men are less likely to be offended, or is that a sexist argument? (insert disappearing up own, non-gender-specific, orifice smiley)

[marinello59]

Where's the "some people are oh so over-sensitive" smillie when you need it??

And I do believe it's a mans game, do you watch a lot/any womens football? i don't see much, only when its on TV, so I'd assume only when its the 'good' players......they're bloody awful!

You'd better get used to female officials. Given the difficulties there are recruiting new refs it would be utter madness to ignore over 50% of the population.

[iwasthere1972]

You'd better get used to female officials. Given the difficulties there are recruiting new refs it would be utter madness to ignore over 50% of the population.

Maybe we would take them more seriously if they had a hoover in their hands while running the line. :devil:

[ancient hibee]

Maybe we would take them more seriously if they had a hoover in their hands while running the line. :devil:
Well they have a flag thing like a duster.

The amusing thing is she got a tight offside decision spot on while running flat out unlike Gray who won't give an opinion about anything until he's seen a replay-he always plays for time.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

i really can't stand gray. Given the chance to put his vast experience into practice at Villa and bottled it. Keys is strategically shaved monkey that is more chunky knit and breakfast tele. Ron Akto was hounded for racist comments. Sky won't be the same.

[Bostonhibby]

Its a great pity these 2 self satisfied smug Erses had to face suspension and possibly being shunted on the back of this particular one even though I Don't think gender alone makes you any less knowledgeable about football.

I would have preferred to see them put out to grass on the basis that stating the bleeding obvious about what the viewer is watching, and Gray doing that little in house laugh at anything the other one has to say, isn't really good enough for the money I pay for their apparent expertise.

I suppose we will be expected to believe they are both great guys and this was a one off, but I imagine they have a similarly superficial view about everything else, its just that this one slipped out. Amateurs.

[Bostonhibby]

i really can't stand gray. Given the chance to put his vast experience into practice at Villa and bottled it. Keys is strategically shaved monkey that is more chunky knit and breakfast tele. Ron Akto was hounded for racist comments. Sky won't be the same.

:agree:thats what I meant :wink:

[SouthamptonHibs]

No idea why wiman have anything to do with mens football! It's a man's game! if they want to ref, be an assistant ref or 4th official they should be doing it in there own wimans league's!
i'm sure the only reason why blokes referee in the wiman's league is that there's not enough wiman wanting to do the job!

i'm sure wiman wanting to become a referee in the mens pro leagues are only doing it to get on some form of reality tv.....stick to singing, dancing on ice and ballroom dancing ladies

Hail Hail

[James70]

There's loads of women involved in football nowadays, in the boardroom, coaching, reporting and acting as match officials.

Some might even say that Hibs have eleven of them taking the field for every match.

[Removed]

No idea why wiman have anything to do with mens football! It's a man's game! if they want to ref, be an assistant ref or 4th official they should be doing it in there own wimans league's!
i'm sure the only reason why blokes referee in the wiman's league is that there's not enough wiman wanting to do the job!

i'm sure wiman wanting to become a referee in the mens pro leagues are only doing it to get on some form of reality tv.....stick to singing, dancing on ice and ballroom dancing ladies

Hail Hail

This is not a wind up post but I don't care what gender, nationality or sexual orientation an official is .....as long as they get the vast majority of decisions correct. The game is about the football, not the refs. All this "man's game" stuff is a load of pish imo.

[CropleyWasGod]

Agree with you about Gray but what if they'd said the same about a male "baby faced " debutante running the line? (just cos he was young and inexperienced)? Would they have been pulled up for that?:dunno:

If they had said things like "the game's gone mad" or "he won't know the offside rule".... as they did about the AR and Brady, then yes.

And, "why do we call them linesmen?".... WTF??? They haven't been linesmen in years. Professional or what....:rolleyes:

[SouthamptonHibs]

This is not a wind up post but I don't care what gender, nationality or sexual orientation an official is .....as long as they get the vast majority of decisions correct. The game is about the football, not the refs. All this "man's game" stuff is a load of pish imo.

I'm with you on your thought's that you don't care who it is doing the job as long as the decision is right...that is the most important part of a referee's job.

However the game we watch is a mans game...it's the mens pro football league we watch.
This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....
...it's a total non story but it has the nation gripped on some sort of man hunt to get the presenters fined/sacked.

Crazy times...

[marinello59]

Agree with you about Gray but what if they'd said the same about a male "baby faced " debutante running the line? (just cos he was young and inexperienced)? Would they have been pulled up for that?:dunno:

That would be a totally different thing though. This official's ability was not questioned due to lack of experience but merely because of her gender. Sexist, but above all stupid.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm with you on your thought's that you don't care who it is doing the job as long as the decision is right...that is the most important part of a referee's job.

However the game we watch is a mans game...it's the mens pro football league we watch.
This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....
...it's a total non story but it has the nation gripped on some sort of man hunt to get the presenters fined/sacked.

Crazy times...

It's not banter. It's ignorant, undeserved abuse. They even called her a "linesman".

[marinello59]

I'm with you on your thought's that you don't care who it is doing the job as long as the decision is right...that is the most important part of a referee's job.

However the game we watch is a mans game...it's the mens pro football league we watch.
This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....
...it's a total non story but it has the nation gripped on some sort of man hunt to get the presenters fined/sacked.

Crazy times...

Plenty of men would find those comments outdated and ill informed. Nothing to do with woman's rights etc

[ozzie]

I'm with you on your thought's that you don't care who it is doing the job as long as the decision is right...that is the most important part of a referee's job.

However the game we watch is a mans game...it's the mens pro football league we watch.
This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....
...it's a total non story but it has the nation gripped on some sort of man hunt to get the presenters fined/sacked.

Crazy times...

if jeff sterling had said it live on a saturday it would be classed as banter, they said it when they thought the mics were off & you could tell by the manor in which they said it they believe everything they said. thats not banter.

[Antifa Hibs]

They are both *** ****s anyway, sack them.

Big Ron got sacked for using the 'N word' on Desailly. Is sexism more acceptable than racism?

It's one thing for a daft 18 year old to say a womens place is in the kitchen, or a husband joking with the missus about getting the tea on, but for two 'professionals' to come out with it and get rumbled......

If I questioned anyone's ability at my place of work due to their gender i'd be oot on ma erse!

[Removed]

I just downloaded the new FIFA 11 commentary update for the ps3. Not much different, although when my girlfriend went on it, Andy Gray shouted at her to 'put that ****ing controller down and get back to the kitchen.'

[CropleyWasGod]

Linesperson then. Cos that's what they are.Or the "fourth official" would be a referee's assistant too!

My point is that they haven't been "linesmen" for years. As professional broadcasters, who are supposed to inform and educate the public about the game, one might expect them to get even that right.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Plenty of men would find those comments outdated and ill informed. Nothing to do with woman's rights etc

Football's all about the banter...it just shows you how up tight people can get and how easily they are get offended these days

[--------]

I'm with you on your thought's that you don't care who it is doing the job as long as the decision is right...that is the most important part of a referee's job.

However the game we watch is a mans game...it's the mens pro football league we watch.

This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....

...it's a total non story but it has the nation gripped on some sort of man hunt to get the presenters fined/sacked.

Crazy times...

Which century are you stuck in? 17th? 18th? "The nation gripped on some sort of manhunt", is it?

Dearie, dearie me.... :rolleyes:




It's not banter. It's ignorant, undeserved abuse. They even called her a "linesman".


Plenty of men would find those comments outdated and ill informed. Nothing to do with woman's rights etc

Totally agree. "Women don't understand the offside law." Have they ever listened to the average MALE spectator "explaining" the offside law at a game?

... or even some of our learned friends on this forum trying to work out what the rules say about anything?

Blatantly ignorant and ill-informed, offensive and long outdated.

Just like most of the posts on this thread, actually. :cool2:

[marinello59]

Football's all about the banter...it just shows you how up tight people can get and how easily they are get offended these days

They weren't indulging in banter though, They were showing off how pig ignorant they are.

[hibsbollah]

The thing that amused me was that Keys was rejecting Karren Brady's complaint about sexism in football, and followed that up by (guess what) being sexist:rolleyes:

Its hardly surprising given its Sky we're talking about. The punditry has always had a more 'laddish' feel to it than the beeb, what with the glammed up SSN girls and so on. Its all a bit sad and cheezy.

[--------]

The thing that amused me was that Keys was rejecting Karren Brady's complaint about sexism in football, and followed that up by (guess what) being sexist:rolleyes:

Its hardly surprising given its Sky we're talking about. The punditry has always had a more 'laddish' feel to it than the beeb, what with the glammed up SSN girls and so on. Its all a bit sad and cheezy.

'Laddish'? Moronic, more like it.

I would LOVE to see Keys call Karen Brady 'Luv' to her face, on camera. :faf:

[SouthamptonHibs]

[QUOTE=Doddie;2707576]Which century are you stuck in? 17th? 18th? "The nation gripped on some sort of manhunt", is it?

Dearie, dearie me....

21st i think, just listening to my ipod, through my samsung 2:1 sound system, picking the songs that are on view on my big HD tv.

Can't see why the wiman are offended it's the sort of comment that people all around britain would say on a daily basis....and have been saying for years...

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Doddie;2707576]Which century are you stuck in? 17th? 18th? "The nation gripped on some sort of manhunt", is it?

Dearie, dearie me....

21st i think, just listening to my ipod, through my samsung 2:1 sounds system picking the songs that are on view on my big HD tv.

Can't see why the wiman are offended it's the sort of comment that people all around britain would say on a daily basis....and have been saying for years...

It's not just the "wiman" :rolleyes: that are offended. It's the real men too.

As for people "have been saying for years", does that then make it right?

[SouthamptonHibs]

The thing that amused me was that Keys was rejecting Karren Brady's complaint about sexism in football, and followed that up by (guess what) being sexist:rolleyes:

Its hardly surprising given its Sky we're talking about. The punditry has always had a more 'laddish' feel to it than the beeb, what with the glammed up SSN girls and so on. Its all a bit sad and cheezy.

The laddish feel to it ie soccer sat with Jeff and the boys is alot better than watching the guys on the Beeb IMO....if you can't make a game on a sat it's a good laugh:wink: It maybe a bit cheezy but i'd rather look at a tastie wee darling on tv telling me the sports news than some old hag....i think sky have a decent product. It doesn't beat going to the game but if your in its worth a watch:thumbsup:

[snooky]

Two camps here.

Camp 1) say it's wrong to say anything sexist, homophobic, etc.
Camp 2) reserve the right to say anything they want, no matter what

I guess, "east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet".
(except for this Wednesday at ER :wink:)

Me? I just wish some people would get a life. :yawn:

[CropleyWasGod]

The laddish feel to it ie soccer sat with Jeff and the boys is alot better than watching the guys on the Beeb IMO....if you can't make a game on a sat it's a good laugh:wink: It maybe a bit cheezy but i'd rather look at a tastie wee darling on tv telling me the sports news than some old hag....i think sky have a decent product. It doesn't beat going to the game but if your in its worth a watch:thumbsup:

Do you watch Love Thy Neighbour on your wide screen telly then? :cool2:

[Speedy]

They are both *** ****s anyway, sack them.

Big Ron got sacked for using the 'N word' on Desailly. Is sexism more acceptable than racism?

It's one thing for a daft 18 year old to say a womens place is in the kitchen, or a husband joking with the missus about getting the tea on, but for two 'professionals' to come out with it and get rumbled......

If I questioned anyone's ability at my place of work due to their gender i'd be oot on ma erse!

It would appear so. It would also appear that ageism is more acceptable than both :fishin:

Seriously though, I would have said that sexism is more acceptable in society than racism because racism is generally directed with more aggression(I can't think of the exact word I have in mind but aggression will do) than sexism.

[hibsbollah]

Do you watch Love Thy Neighbour on your wide screen telly then? :cool2:

...with a side portion of Benny Hill by the sounds of it:panic:

[Pretty Boy]

They are both *** ****s anyway, sack them.

Big Ron got sacked for using the 'N word' on Desailly. Is sexism more acceptable than racism?

It's one thing for a daft 18 year old to say a womens place is in the kitchen, or a husband joking with the missus about getting the tea on, but for two 'professionals' to come out with it and get rumbled......

If I questioned anyone's ability at my place of work due to their gender i'd be oot on ma erse!

Key points here for me.

There have been plenty occasions i've been in the pub or whatever with my mates and someones made a joke about his girlfriend and we all have a laugh.

I would never take that attitude into the workplace. All this the mics were off nonsense doesn't wash with me, whether they were on air or otherwise they were at work and sexism in the workplace is, rightly, frowned upon. As you said if i questioned a colleagues ability or slagged a client, customer or whoever based on nothing but their gender i'd be up before a disciplinary panel sharpish and might find myself out on my erse. This isn't PC gone mad as some will no doubt try to dress it up as, it basic common decency and basic common sense.

[SouthamptonHibs]

:
[QUOTE=SouthamptonHibs;2707587]

It's not just the "wiman" :rolleyes: that are offended. It's the real men too.

As for people "have been saying for years", does that then make it right?

It doesn't make it wrong, the comment is not something to get offended by IMO. The world is going soft.

I'll agree to disagree on this..the Chelsea games just about to start:agree:

Hail hail

[CropleyWasGod]

:[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;2707597]

It doesn't make it wrong, the comment is not something to get offended by IMO. The world is going soft.

I'll agree to disagree on this..the Chelsea games just about to start:agree:

Hail hail

So is University Challenge :na na:

[Pretty Boy]

So you're assuming that the reference to lack of knowledge re the offside rule wasn't to do with a novice linesperson? eg .. If they'd said he instead of she it would have been equally unacceptable ?

I think it was the 'Woman don't know the offside rule' comment that gave the game away.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Do you watch Love Thy Neighbour on your wide screen telly then? :cool2:

It's a bit before my time....but i've heard of the programme.
Prefer watching only fools and horses from the olding days and family guy from this era to get my quota of banter each day:thumbsup:

[marinello59]

So you're assuming that the reference to lack of knowledge re the offside rule wasn't to do with a novice linesperson? eg .. If they'd said he instead of she it would have been equally unacceptable ?

They specifically referred to her gender. Have you actually heard the comments?

[snooky]

Linesman is fine
Lineswoman is fine

But, please don't abbreviate the word to "Line" as they did with "Chair"
That really gets on my thrupnies. :brickwall

Okay, I know. I need to get a life. :wink:

[Removed]

Key points here for me.

There have been plenty occasions i've been in the pub or whatever with my mates and someones made a joke about his girlfriend and we all have a laugh.

I would never take that attitude into the workplace. All this the mics were off nonsense doesn't wash with me, whether they were on air or otherwise they were at work and sexism in the workplace is, rightly, frowned upon. As you said if i questioned a colleagues ability or slagged a client, customer or whoever based on nothing but their gender i'd be up before a disciplinary panel sharpish and might find myself out on my erse. This isn't PC gone mad as some will no doubt try to dress it up as, it basic common decency and basic common sense.

:agree:

[The_Todd]

Do male linesman(linesperson) get work in the female league games? If not then I'd assume this is a typical modern day case of 'positive action', which I don't particularly agree with.

Another typical modern day aspect of life involved in this situation is the publics ridiculous outcry over little more than nothing.

Oooooooooh Eastenders is crossing the line you can't film fiction about stealing a baby....

Oooooooooh Frankie Boyle made a joke that I didn't find funny....

Oooooooooh they don't believe women are as competent at being a linesman as men are......

I truly despair sometimes.

Are you kidding? Frankie Boyle would have been banned about 20-25 years ago, so this "everything is all PC these days and everything is terrible now" is frankly balls.

[lapsedhibee]

This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....


Nothing wrong with a pumped up woman. Very cheap date. Appalled, however, at the large number of posters on this thread unable to even spell woman, or to distinguish between the singular woman and the plural women. The correct spelling of the singular is wumman.

[The_Todd]

This incident is a prime example of why wiman shouldn't be allowed to ref/assist in the mens game as "they" can't take the banter...by "they" i mean wimans right's groups, pumped up business wiman wanting on the tv, general equal rights groups etc....

Was the official in question offended? Did she make a public statement? Who said she couldn't take the "banter"?

[snooky]

[QUOTE=SouthamptonHibs;2707611]:

So is University Challenge :na na:

Elitist! :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

What you really need to ask yourself is, would Keys and Gray say these things during super Sunday? We all know the answer is a resounding no.

They will laugh it off, probably give a groveling apology and move on. Yet the watching public will all know how they really feel about women in football, especially those women who watch it.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Was the official in question offended? Did she make a public statement? Who said she couldn't take the "banter"?

I have no idea what she done...
Rumour has it she only got to go to the game as it was an early kick off and she would be home in time to make the tea
:flag:

[DCI Gene Hunt]

Andy Gray's a prat anyway, Sky and their pointless statistics/hasbeen "experts" get my goat.

Is the blonde Hun bint still on Sky Sports?

G

[Pretty Boy]

Andy Gray's a prat anyway, Sky and their pointless statistics/hasbeen "experts" get my goat.

Is the blonde Hun bint still on Sky Sports?
G

Jim White?

[heretoday]

They weren't indulging in banter though, They were showing off how pig ignorant they are.


Hear, hear! If I was this woman's dad or partner or whatever, I'd be seeking out Andy Gray and giving him a slap on his big Scots pus.

We need more women refs. God knows the guys are making a mess of the job, eh?

Every other week we get yet another crass refereeing decision in the headlines.

[New Corrie]

'Laddish'? Moronic, more like it.

I would LOVE to see Keys call Karen Brady 'Luv' to her face, on camera. :faf:

Yeah I know. that would be such a horrific offensive thing to say to her. I think womens groups should boycott Sky after this unbelievable atrocity that has happened, in fact there should be a public enquiry.

[Speedy]

Hear, hear! If I was this woman's dad or partner or whatever, I'd be seeking out Andy Gray and giving him a slap on his big Scots pus.

We need more women refs. God knows the guys are making a mess of the job, eh?

Every other week we get yet another crass refereeing decision in the headlines.

Can she not do it herself like? :stirrer:

[lucky]

Sexual discrimination should not be tolerated anymore than racial discrimination. Or Scotland's curse of sectarianism. How many on here have taken the moral high ground with Old Firm calling them bigots?

Also Ron Atkinson was emptied by ITV over his on microphone comments when he thought he his microphone was off.

For me the two should suffer the same fate as any others who make derogatory comments about any other person based on their gender.

[Betty Boop]

I have no idea what she done...
Rumour has it she only got to go to the game as it was an early kick off and she would be home in time to make the tea
:flag:

You sound like Fred Flinstone ! :rolleyes:

[proud_and_green]

I'm aware that the content of what was said is far tamer than what Atkinson came out with. The fact is though that some folk love a resignation or a sacking and given the 'controversy' this has caused they should count themselves lucky Sky have kept them in their jobs.

Pity they didn't sack Gray though, slavering erse that he is.

A real pity, i have been hoping upon hope that someone would take him off the air and i thought this might have been the opportunity.
:grr:

[Newry Hibs]

More revelations this morning. Discussing whether or not she would be any 'use' to Andy G - in a would you / wouldn't you tone. This could be a final nail. I wonder if there are any more comments to come. These things tend to be saved up and drip fed.

[3pm]

Richard Keys phoned the assistant ref yesterday and apologised. I hope she is getting her SKY for free. And she should take multi-room too.

[easty]

Richard Keys phoned the assistant ref yesterday and apologised. I hope she is getting her SKY for free. And she should take multi-room too.

You can only watch Loose Women in one room at a time though...

[DCI Gene Hunt]

Jim White?

:faf:

No, the blonde wifey who used to be on Hun TV.

G

[ancient hibee]

:faf:

No, the blonde wifey who used to be on Hun TV.

G
Eva Braun?

[Diclonius]

Gray's just been sacked. :aok:

[Sir David Gray]

Andy Gray leaves Sky Sports - breaking news just now on Sky Sports News.

[SaulGoodman]

On SSN Just now.

[JE89]

Gray's just been sacked. :aok:

Sacked?

Or resigned?

Sky Sports just says "Andy Gray leaves Sky Sports" - Do you know something or adding 2+2 and getting 5?


Edit: Confirmed SS has terminated contract

[Sir David Gray]

Ahem...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?202760-Andy-Gray-amp-Richard-Keys-put-there-foot-in-it/page6

:wink:

[smurf]

Cancelling my subscription. I blame RP.

[greenlex]

On SSN Just now.
Sky Sports Football coverage will be a poorer product IMO. They wouldnt miss the other one though he not really Key.

[Pretty Boy]

Apparently they were asked to give an on air apology and refused saying it was humiliating.

More leaks today of Gray making further comments pre game about the lineswoman being 'a bit of a looker'.

[SaulGoodman]

Ahem...

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?202760-Andy-Gray-amp-Richard-Keys-put-there-foot-in-it/page6

:wink:

Oops, how did I not notice a 6 page thread? :doh:

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Joy of Joys:thumbsup:

I cannot stand that clown even before this incident. Will be able to enjoy the matches more now without him slavering complete and utter guff for 90+ minutes

[JE89]

Joy of Joys:thumbsup:

I cannot stand that clown even before this incident. Will be able to enjoy the matches more now without him slavering complete and utter guff for 90+ minutes

Best pundit/Co-Commentator in the game IMO

[Kaiser1962]

Cancelling my subscription. I blame RP.

Thats quite funny Smurf. Cheered me up :greengrin

[.Sean.]

I honestly don't see the need. He's allowed an opinion isn't he? Maybe it sounds harsh but the lassie will more than likely face taunts like that at every game she officiates, as do her male counterparts. And as for sexism? Don't make me laugh. If you want to see examples of sexism have a look at that guff they call 'Loose Women'.

[Sir David Gray]

If ever you wanted an example of making mountains out of molehills, this is it. :agree:

I understand Gray and Keys have both apologised, in private, to the woman concerned so that should have been the end of it.

Not a great fan of Andy Gray to be honest but I find the whole thing a complete overreaction.

[J-C]

I know what they said wasn't exactly PC but seeing as it was off air, who actually shopped them and stuck them in it............sounds like someone wanted shot of them and took the opertunity to do so. I'm sure many things are said off air all the time and nothing would be done as it wasn't aired, this wasn't on air, so obviously some backroom person took the chance to do them.

[truehibernian]

I honestly don't see the need. He's allowed an opinion isn't he? Maybe it sounds harsh but the lassie will more than likely face taunts like that at every game she officiates, as do her male counterparts. And as for sexism? Don't make me laugh. If you want to see examples of sexism have a look at that guff they call 'Loose Women'.

That Kate Thornton would get it though eh.......oooops.......I'll get ma coat after handing in ma P45 :faf:

[SlickShoes]

Acht hes only sexist! its not like he's being racist or anything.....

Bloody women will want to vote next!

[Hibbie_Cameron]

If ever you wanted an example of making mountains out of molehills, this is it. :agree:

I understand Gray and Keys have both apologised, in private, to the woman concerned so that should have been the end of it.

Not a great fan of Andy Gray to be honest but I find the whole thing a complete overreaction.

He was warned in december too for his conduct. Its on Sky News.

He asked a female presenter to come over and tuck his shirt into his trousers for him and was warned about that by his bosses.

I take it this was the final straw for him

[JimBHibees]

Best pundit/Co-Commentator in the game IMO

Agree only let down by his slavish defence of the EPL when in the Champs League.

[Pretty Boy]

Joy of Joys:thumbsup:

I cannot stand that clown even before this incident. Will be able to enjoy the matches more now without him slavering complete and utter guff for 90+ minutes

:agree:

It always amazes me that for all Sky market the 'Greatest league in the world' the commentary and punditry team they have in place is by and large rubbish. Gray, Merson, Thomson, Nicholas, Jamie 'better not upset any of my mates' Redknapp all speak absolute tosh most of the time. Especially compared to the intelligent and interesting team in place that covers La Liga especially the catch up show Revista de La Liga. Guilem Balague has more insight and professionalism in his little toe than that lot have in all their bodies combined.

[TornadoHibby]

I honestly don't see the need. He's allowed an opinion isn't he? Maybe it sounds harsh but the lassie will more than likely face taunts like that at every game she officiates, as do her male counterparts. And as for sexism? Don't make me laugh. If you want to see examples of sexism have a look at that guff they call 'Loose Women'.

:top marks

Surely the "newspaper" (I use the term extremely loosely) gunning for Gray most, the Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3369470/Sky-Sports-Andy-Gray-and-Richard-Keys-in-sexism-row-over-lineswoman-Sian-Massey.html), is having a larf as it must be the most sexist newspaper regarding women and their "place in society" that there frigging well is! :confused:

These comments were made off air and privately amongst colleagues, something that happens in work places all around the World every day amongst male and female groups about the opposite sex in my view! :cool2:

Some wee guy with a gripe against one or more of them has dobbed them in it appears! :agree:

Gray will be a big loss to Sky Sports IMO and will be missed by many people who watch it regularly! :agree:

[one day maybe...]

Wonder if Keys will follow suit?
Love to see how Andy would do in the real world as a football manager, don't think he will ever dip his foot in that pond unfortunately, he often has a lot of good stuff to say, some peeesh anaw mind you. :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

If ever you wanted an example of making mountains out of molehills, this is it. :agree:

I understand Gray and Keys have both apologised, in private, to the woman concerned so that should have been the end of it.

Not a great fan of Andy Gray to be honest but I find the whole thing a complete overreaction.

Heard a guy on the radio talking about how seriously Sky take their image and brand identity.

Half their viewing public are women as are many of their employees and they would not want to be associated with this kind of old fashioned, macho boys club attitude.

I think a business decision has been taken to relieve Gray of his duties for the good of Sky's reputation.

[Sylar]

I read something yesterday (hope it wasn't on here :greengrin) which stated "people are making a big deal out of this because they feel they should, not because it actually bothers them" and I fully agree.

Andy Gray is a good commentator in my personal opinion and I'm sorry to see Sky take such a ludicrous course of action. Why has Richard Keys not also gone? Compared to the complete dregs like Dean Windass, Charlie Nicholas and Paul Merson, Andy Gray is at least knowledgeable about the game. He can come across as having a bit of an ego, but to fire him for something as pitiful as this is a complete overreaction.

Why not make him issue an apology, issue a fine or make him do some form of outreach/charity work within women's football to make him understand WHY his opinions are wrong, rather than just sweeping him under the rug?

[greenlex]

Heard a guy on the radio talking about how seriously Sky take their image and brand identity.

Half their viewing public are women as are many of their employees and they would not want to be associated with this kind of old fashioned, macho boys club attitude.

I think a business decision has been taken to relieve Gray of his duties for the good of Sky's reputation.
Another part of the Murdoch empire worried about its reputation. **** me the worlds gone mad.

[Sir David Gray]

He was warned in december too for his conduct. Its on Sky News.

He asked a female presenter to come over and tuck his shirt into his trousers for him and was warned about that by his bosses.

I take it this was the final straw for him

If you worked with Millie Clode, Natalie Sawyer and Georgie Thompson every day, I'm sure you would ask them to tuck your shirt into your trousers occasionally as well. :greengrin

[TornadoHibby]

If you worked with Millie Clode, Natalie Sawyer and Georgie Thompson every day, I'm sure you would ask them to tuck your shirt into your trousers occasionally as well. :greengrin

:eek: :shocked:


:tee hee:

Never had you down as sexist either! :greengrin

[steviecarnie]

id expect a wrongful dismissal lawsuit soon, at the end of the day he has been sacked for what he and richard keys thought was a private conversation. The views expressed were their own.

[Removed]

If ever you wanted an example of making mountains out of molehills, this is it. :agree:

I understand Gray and Keys have both apologised, in private, to the woman concerned so that should have been the end of it.

Not a great fan of Andy Gray to be honest but I find the whole thing a complete overreaction.

I saw what you did there :tee hee:

[blackpoolhibs]

I thought this would all be swept under the carpet after an apology. How wrong was i? :greengrin I have never liked Gray, he's a dirty hun, and off screen a real erse.:asshole: There's no sympathy from this part of Blackpool.

[Hibby Bairn]

Why not make him issue an apology, issue a fine or make him do some form of outreach/charity work within women's football to make him understand WHY his opinions are wrong, rather than just sweeping him under the rug?

Get him to run the line at a live game for example. :cool2:

[blackpoolhibs]

No wonder he was fine about John Terry's affair.



http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16893470&method=full&siteid=93463&headline=exclusive--randy-andy-rat-it-again---with-best-mate-s-wife-name_page.html

[CB_NO3]

Andy Gray is a tool. He gets paid 25k a week to state the obvious. I hate Sky anyway, moan the dodgy channels.

[Sergey]

I'm surprised that there's been no mention of the game being delayed for five minutes, due to the lino not being able to find the flag in her handbag.

[lucky]

Sky have got 50% of this right. Keys must go to. There is no place for sexism in a modern society

[heretoday]

I'm sure Sky with all their millions will easily replace Gray.

I feel sorry for the woman in the case. She would not have wanted this, I'm sure.

The spotlight is on her now - not because of anything she's done but because of a couple of puerile, sleazy bozos.

They owe apologies to their wives/partners and daughters if they have any.

[Gus Fring]

Apparently Sky have found more evidence of Gray behaving inappropriately from December and that factored into his sacking

[one day maybe...]

I'm sure Sky with all their millions will easily replace Gray.

I feel sorry for the woman in the case. She would not have wanted this, I'm sure.

The spotlight is on her now - not because of anything she's done but because of a couple of puerile, sleazy bozos.

They owe apologies to their wives/partners and daughters if they have any.

The lines person :greengrin concerned with whole charade has withdrawn from the game she was supposed to be working on tonight. On SSN now.
Must be doing her hair :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Richard Keys must be sheiting himself, he has to go too i would imagine?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Not too fussed about what he said, just glad to see the back of him. It does stink a bit of the Wossy-Brand situation where people are feigning moral outrage whilst at the same time going out of their way to find out what was said.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Richard Keys must be sheiting himself, he has to go too i would imagine?

Yep
Keys, lock the door on your way out.

[sambajustice]

Whats the betting they'll get Kelly Dal, or Georgie Thomson in to replace Keys?

[blackpoolhibs]

Whats the betting they'll get Kelly Dal, or Georgie Thomson in to replace Keys?

I'd hope for Jeff Stelling, he's a legend. :thumbsup:

[JE89]

I would love Gray to go to BBC.

Welcome back to Sportscene with Pat Nevin, Julian Sinclair and Andy Gray! :greengrin Dream Team!!

[CRAZYHIBBY]

IMO mens football should consist entirely of men and that goes for linesmen and refs. Women haver thier own leagues and should stick to them.....if that makes me a sexist then great. Im sick and tired of all the anti pc crap and people telling us what we can and cant say. It was a private conversation between two guys , pretty much as it would be in a pub ect . The problem here being they left thier mikes on. Why couldnt the people behind the scenes just erase the footage instead of trying to cause trouble

[big-mo]

What about Key's opinion on Scotland? He must be sacked as well :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axISAvjgX9I

[Mikeystewart]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9373280.stm

[Beefster]

IMO mens football should consist entirely of men and that goes for linesmen and refs. Women haver thier own leagues and should stick to them.....if that makes me a sexist then great. Im sick and tired of all the anti pc crap and people telling us what we can and cant say. It was a private conversation between two guys , pretty much as it would be in a pub ect . The problem here being they left thier mikes on. Why couldnt the people behind the scenes just erase the footage instead of trying to cause trouble

Gray was sacked for pretty much being a sleazy ******* to one of his co-workers. The fact that he was outed as a sexist moron the other day just compounded it all.

[Speedy]

IMO mens football should consist entirely of men and that goes for linesmen and refs. Women haver thier own leagues and should stick to them.....if that makes me a sexist then great. Im sick and tired of all the anti pc crap and people telling us what we can and cant say. It was a private conversation between two guys , pretty much as it would be in a pub ect . The problem here being they left thier mikes on. Why couldnt the people behind the scenes just erase the footage instead of trying to cause trouble

It's not really a football decision though. It's a business decision about comments made within the workplace. If two guys were having this conversation in a retail environment and a customer overheard and complained then I'm sure they would face some sort of disciplinary action.

[Removed]

It's not really a football decision though. It's a business decision about comments made within the workplace. If two guys were having this conversation in a retail environment and a customer overheard and complained then I'm sure they would face some sort of disciplinary action.

:agree: or even in an office and another member of staff complains. I have to bite my tongue all the time at my work.

[greenlex]

It's not really a football decision though. It's a business decision about comments made within the workplace. If two guys were having this conversation in a retail environment and a customer overheard and complained then I'm sure they would face some sort of disciplinary action.
You are right. It is a business decision. Murdoch is trying to take control of all of Sky and the OFT are saying its probably not on. They have given Murdoch more time to put his case though. Between this and the phone tapping "Witch hunt" at the NOTW. they are trying to be seen to be squeeky clean and cleaning up their act. All to appease whoever is making the Sky decision. No doubt a few back handers at the appropriate time to those making the decision should just about clinch it. All in my opinion of course.
Gray was on a loser here particularly as he is involved in a law suit against NOTW. Stioll he wont go hungry I suppose.

[steviecarnie]

I bet they replace Gray with Jamie Redknapp with his impossibly tight suit trousers taking over the floor of MNF, he'd be just as well slapping it out on the wee table thing!!!

[--------]

It WAS a business decision, I agree - Sky aren't going to persevere with an idiot like Gray, not inj this day and age.

He's not just offensive to women; a lot of men fond this sort of 'banter' tiresome, ignorant, and off-putting - I know I do.

Once upon a time racist abuse of black players was considered 'banter' and 'just part of the culture of the game'; once upon a time it was considered inappropriate for young men of a Catholic Irish background to expect to be allowed to play football professionally in Scotland. I believe that that fact has something to do with the founding of a certain football club now playing in the SPL (just!)...

To many people, football seems to be an arena in which they can air their bigotry and prejudice regardless of the standards adopted by society in general - religious, racist, ethnic and sexist abuse is OK in football when in 'normal' society it would be totally and utterly unacceptable. Gray and Keys appear to be two such.

What's worrying is the number of people on this forum who have been so quick not just to make excuses for these two, but to endorse their attitudes and comments as 'part of the game'. Some of the posts in this thread are, in my opinion, utterly inexcusable and embarrassing. :bitchy:

[essexhibee]

I think the thing is that the conversation was not a banterful one but was more one that was spiteful and degrading when you listen to what they say and their tone of voice. Dont think it can be compared with loose women which from what I've seen is totally light hearted and in no way spiteful. Andy gray is a ****ing arse anyway good riddance!!

[crewetollhibee]

Read somewhere today that Murdoch was in London today for summat. Bad timing for that pair eh ? Be sure that he will instruct his lawyers to defend Gray's libel action with all guns blazing. P.S 10 mins into SSN and nowt mentioned !!!

[steviecarnie]

ch.
What's worrying is the number of people on this forum who have been so quick not just to make excuses for these two, but to endorse their attitudes and comments as 'part of the game'. Some of the posts in this thread are, in my opinion, utterly inexcusable and embarrassing. :bitchy:

it was a conversation between 2 mates, that should have stayed that way! I say worse in my work everyday!!

I work for the council trust me they would have me over coals quicker than stokesy round a bit fanny, if it was offensive.

[--------]

I think the thing is that the conversation was not a banterful one but was more one that was spiteful and degrading when you listen to what they say and their tone of voice. Dont think it can be compared with loose women which from what I've seen is totally light hearted and in no way spiteful. Andy gray is a ****ing arse anyway good riddance!!


That was my reading of it - they weren't kidding along, they were being snide and nasty, IMO. The clip of the incident earlier between Gray and the female presenter came over to me as bullying - which is what a lot of behaviour called 'laddish' really boils down to.

[hibsbollah]

What's worrying is the number of people on this forum who have been so quick not just to make excuses for these two, but to endorse their attitudes and comments as 'part of the game'. Some of the posts in this thread are, in my opinion, utterly inexcusable and embarrassing. :bitchy:

Now now:tsk tsk: by criticising sexism and racism you are clearly just a killjoy prawnsandwich muncher with a hidden agenda to destroy the current hilarious standard of football banter as we know it. Shame on you.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I don't like Gray FWIW but if he's been sacked because of this then this country should take a long look at its self, women have no place in an all male game imo, they have their own league so they should stick to that, not got a problem with the ladies but in a high octane game in higher leagues in England you really shouldn't need a female officiating,, god help any team she is running the line for with PMT :rolleyes:

[sesoim]

Sky have got 50% of this right. Keys must go to. There is no place for sexism in a modern society



There wont be any room for opinions soon either.

So will Jo Brand and all these sexist rappers, for example, get banned from tv? No, because they are part of "minorities"?

I'm no fan of Gray or Keys, and I do feel sorry for the lineswoman, but where is the UK heading if everybody (or rather everybody white straight and male) gets the sack for saying things that a "minority" would get away with?

[marinello59]

]I read something yesterday (hope it wasn't on here :greengrin) which stated "people are making a big deal out of this because they feel they should, not because it actually bothers them" and I fully agree.[/B]


Aye it's only a bit of good old fashioned sexism. Who cares if somebody thinks that a person is intellectually inferior and incapable of carrying out her job because of her gender. Well apart from those women who get lower pay than their male counterparts and those who miss out on promotion because they don't have the correct body bits. And they are all just whingers anyway. :agree:

I'm not so sure Gray should have been sacked though, surely there is more to it than that?

[hibsboy90]

IMO the whole Andy Gray thing has been blown out of proportion. I can understand that following the new footage regarding Charlotte Jackson, it showed that Andy has got a record of being a chauvinist.

However.... What I don't get is the hatred that people have about his work. I always thought that people considered him to be a leading pundit. He was first in the UK to do the whole arrows and lines tactics stuff. MOTD only caught up with this more recently. I'm not here to debate whether what was said was wrong in today's society, purely why Andy Gray seems to be so hated.

For me, I've noticed a trend on facebook that the folk who are glad to see the back of Andy Gray are those who don't actually have a Sky subscription. Myself, I have a sky sports subscription, I love watching Andy doing all his tactical analysis, it's easy to turn over if you don't like it, but personally I really enjoy Monday Night Football. They do 45m of tactical analysis from the weekend, he's got his astroturf and match ball to help. The whole thing is run so professionally, the way he draws lines etc live shows he genuinely knows and has a passion for the tactical side.

But those who don't have sky find him arrogant, is this since they don't embrace the sky presentation style. Most of those who pay for sky are sad to see him go. Is this oversimplifying things.

Whilst on this subject, the biggest crime is that his colleague Andy Burton has been suspended for the pre match, pitchside comments. He said that the cameraman thinks she is attractive, but he isnt sure whether to believe the cameraman. Andy Gray agrees that the cameraman may have a ropey judgement. This is apparantly 'sexist', now i'm sorry but in every workplace across the country, staff mention to others that others are attractive. Females do it as well, the girls at my work do, at no stage does this appear sexism. Forget Keys\Gray, i think that Burton's treatment is unfair.

Opinions????

[sesoim]

I don't like Gray FWIW but if he's been sacked because of this then this country should take a long look at its self, women have no place in an all male game imo, they have their own league so they should stick to that, not got a problem with the ladies but in a high octane game in higher leagues in England you really shouldn't need a female officiating,, god help any team she is running the line for with PMT :rolleyes:


:agree: Can I as a male now join a women's football team? Because surely it would be discrimination/sexism if I'm not allowed. In fact, why don't we just ban mens/womens events and join them together, eg one Wimbledon tennis tournament for all sexes. Surely that is the way forward if women want to be treated like equals in sport?

Again, of course , nobody really wants the above, but why is there a mentality in this country now where certain people in minority groups want to force themselves into every single organization to make a point? And if they aren't allowed to then "discrimination" is shouted.

[Iggy Pope]

Gray was sacked for pretty much being a sleazy ******* to one of his co-workers. The fact that he was outed as a sexist moron the other day just compounded it all.

I met the mug in Cropley's Bar in Easter Road over 25 years ago (He was an ex-colleague of the great man). He was a self-centred pr1ck then and it seems like he is still one now.
If that smarmy wee get Redknaapp replaces him though.....aw naw.

[persevere1875]

I have a sky subscription, Ive also met Mr Gray on more than one occasion and believe me he's a fud of the highest order IMO.

[Purehibee_MYB]

I like their coverage of premiership matches, but I don't particularly like their coverage of the SPL...pretty much go for a stereotypical Scotland idea with bagpipes on the intro music!

[TheDude]

So Sky Sports is a blokey enviroment where the men wander round generally behaving like men do it male dominated group.

MASSIVE surprise there!

I've worked in all male enviroments and, right or wrong, thats how (most) men tend to interact with each other in that type of situation.

The derogatory way in which women are talked about can be disgusting. However, in a room of men, its banter between friends that nobody should be taking seriously.

The things I've heard (and said) about women can be scandelous, but its in no way to be taken as a serious baromiter of my views of women.

As members of the viewing public are we supposed to hold TV presenters to a higher level of accountability, one not held to a couple of guys on a building site?

Since when was in a public outcry to look at a woman and display an opinion to a colleague?

[Removed]

it was a conversation between 2 mates, that should have stayed that way! I say worse in my work everyday!!

I work for the council trust me they would have me over coals quicker than stokesy round a bit fanny, if it was offensive.

Maybe you've just been lucky so far that nobody has put in a complaint.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I've got SKY Sports and as far as I can see nobody loves him more than himself. I've been watching footy for years, dinnae need arrows all over the screen to explain to me what Ive just watched.

[iwasthere1972]

I've got SKY Sports and as far as I can see nobody loves him more than himself. I've been watching footy for years, dinnae need arrows all over the screen to explain to me what Ive just watched.

:agree: Too much analysis and constant repeats from all angles of fouls etc. Love it when the pundits have to admit on air that the official got it right and they didn't even after seeing it in slow motion half a dozen times.

I hear that his wife hides all the condiments when she sets the dinner table. :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

So Sky Sports is a blokey enviroment where the men wander round generally behaving like men do it male dominated group.

MASSIVE surprise there!

I've worked in all male enviroments and, right or wrong, thats how (most) men tend to interact with each other in that type of situation.

The derogatory way in which women are talked about can be disgusting. However, in a room of men, its banter between friends that nobody should be taking seriously.

The things I've heard (and said) about women can be scandelous, but its in no way to be taken as a serious baromiter of my views of women.

As members of the viewing public are we supposed to hold TV presenters to a higher level of accountability, one not held to a couple of guys on a building site?

Since when was in a public outcry to look at a woman and display an opinion to a colleague?

Given that they were expressing an opinion on her doing her job in an industry which also employs them, and that opinion was based solely on her gender..... absolutely yes.

[The_Todd]

Surely when it comes to officiating the game, as long as they're competent who gives a flying one if it's a man or woman?

Gray's comments backfired in the following match anyway given that the lino in question got the calls spot on anyway. Surely all you people saying "women have no place in football" just be concentrating more on whats happening on the pitch rather than the touchlines?

[--------]

Now now:tsk tsk: by criticising sexism and racism you are clearly just a killjoy prawnsandwich muncher with a hidden agenda to destroy the current hilarious standard of football banter as we know it. Shame on you.


I'm sorry, hibsbollah.

It must be that I lack a sense of humour, or perhaps am unable to appreciate the rapier wit and lightning repartee such as we are talking of.

Perhaps if the SFA were to appoint Gray as Referee Supervisor - he could make all aspiring referees parade naked in front of him, and only those with the genital appendages essential for the interpretation of the Offside Law would then be appointed...

Because, as an old friend said to me just yesterday (in this very context) - "It takes a prick to know a prick..."

[steviecarnie]

Has anyone asked the bird what she wanted? i bet someone losing their job over a comment she brushed off, would not have been on the list! OVERREACTION of the highest order!!!!

[Beefster]

:agree: Can I as a male now join a women's football team? Because surely it would be discrimination/sexism if I'm not allowed. In fact, why don't we just ban mens/womens events and join them together, eg one Wimbledon tennis tournament for all sexes. Surely that is the way forward if women want to be treated like equals in sport?

Again, of course , nobody really wants the above, but why is there a mentality in this country now where certain people in minority groups want to force themselves into every single organization to make a point? And if they aren't allowed to then "discrimination" is shouted.

Women are a 'minority group'?

[--------]

Has anyone asked the bird what she wanted? i bet someone losing their job over a comment she brushed off, would not have been on the list! OVERREACTION of the highest order!!!!


"The BIRD..." ???? :rolleyes:

[The_Todd]

Has anyone asked the bird what she wanted? i bet someone losing their job over a comment she brushed off, would not have been on the list! OVERREACTION of the highest order!!!!

Why? Sky decide who they keep and who they sack, not "the bird" as you so eloquently put it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Has anyone asked the bird what she wanted? i bet someone losing their job over a comment she brushed off, would not have been on the list! OVERREACTION of the highest order!!!!

To be fair, it wasn't her call. If, as has been suggested, this was the latest in a number of similar incidents involving Gray, it was between him and his employer.

The fact that it was made in public is almost irrelevant. If his boss overheard him, on mike or not, then it was entirely right that he should be disciplined.

[Removed]

Has anyone asked the bird what she wanted? i bet someone losing their job over a comment she brushed off, would not have been on the list! OVERREACTION of the highest order!!!!

Bird :rolleyes:

[steviecarnie]

Bird :rolleyes:

couldnt remember her name......infact i dont know it, cos its been all about AG and RK,

Dont tell me you high horsers are gonna get me sacked from the board for sexism!!

[Stonewall]

I thought it sounded like an Alan Partridge sketch.

As has been said earlier I suspect Gray would still have a job if he hadn't made a complaint against the News of the World re phone tapping alegations.

Rupert Murdoch is not a man to cross.

[CropleyWasGod]

couldnt remember her name......infact i dont know it, cos its been all about AG and RK,



As it should be.

The dignity of "the burd" has been exemplary, both in the way she went about her work and in the way she has refused to stick her metaphorical flag up Gray's metaphorical jacksie.

[marinello59]

couldnt remember her name......infact i dont know it, cos its been all about AG and RK,

Dont tell me you high horsers are gonna get me sacked from the board for sexism!!

You could be accused of getting on your high horse in their defence. Would that weaken your argument?

[Removed]

couldnt remember her name......infact i dont know it, cos its been all about AG and RK,

Dont tell me you high horsers are gonna get me sacked from the board for sexism!!

I don't know the lady's name either :wink:

[heretoday]

I would love Gray to go to BBC.

Welcome back to Sportscene with Pat Nevin, Julian Sinclair and Andy Gray! :greengrin Dream Team!!

Ha Ha! PC Pat would be ticking him off all the time!

In truth he'll probably end up on Talk Sport with Stan Collymore, who has been quite scathing in his criticism of Gray recently but whose own past is not without blemish.

[Removed]

I've always thought "Chick" was a cooler way of saying it :wink:

Maybe, but still dehumanisation which in itself could be considered as a lack of respect

[Septimus]

Personally I will miss Andy Gray's analysis. I suspect that the reason that they are sacking him is because he is OLD and I can empathise with him if this is the case.

He comes from a different generation and maybe is a bit slow to learn. Whatever. He also comes from a generation where the abuse heard towards opposing fans, opposing team's players and even to the players of the supporters on the terraces, sorry, seats, would have been unthinkable.

I observe the present day manners of my sex towards women with dismay these days.

[calder45a]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png

[iwasthere1972]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png

:faf:

[Betty Boop]

It WAS a business decision, I agree - Sky aren't going to persevere with an idiot like Gray, not inj this day and age.

He's not just offensive to women; a lot of men fond this sort of 'banter' tiresome, ignorant, and off-putting - I know I do.

Once upon a time racist abuse of black players was considered 'banter' and 'just part of the culture of the game'; once upon a time it was considered inappropriate for young men of a Catholic Irish background to expect to be allowed to play football professionally in Scotland. I believe that that fact has something to do with the founding of a certain football club now playing in the SPL (just!)...

To many people, football seems to be an arena in which they can air their bigotry and prejudice regardless of the standards adopted by society in general - religious, racist, ethnic and sexist abuse is OK in football when in 'normal' society it would be totally and utterly unacceptable. Gray and Keys appear to be two such.

What's worrying is the number of people on this forum who have been so quick not just to make excuses for these two, but to endorse their attitudes and comments as 'part of the game'. Some of the posts in this thread are, in my opinion, utterly inexcusable and embarrassing. :bitchy:

:agree: Jurassic Park springs to mind !

[greenlex]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png
:faf::faf::faf:................................... .....................................




















..........................:tsk tsk:

[--------]

Ha Ha! PC Pat would be ticking him off all the time!

In truth he'll probably end up on Talk Sport with Stan Collymore, who has been quite scathing in his criticism of Gray recently but whose own past is not without blemish.


They'd get on fine together - they could invite women on their show as guests, Gray could insult them, and Collymore could give them a bit of the old "what-for" if they objected?

Sounds as if that's the sort of show that would go down a treat with some on here... :devil:

[Removed]

So how do you think I should react if some chick called me a stallion?

If you find her attractive and she is willing then do what stallions do and give her the ride of her life.

What if she wasn't so complimentary?

[CropleyWasGod]

So how do you think I should react if some chick called me a stallion?

Your reaction is your reaction. If you are flattered by that, so be it. Offence is subjective. Some women are offended by being called "love" and "birds", some aren't.

[Badge]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png

Superb

[--------]

That's not funny!:faf::faf:

No, it ISN'T funny - but it illustrates perfectly the level of intellectual development of some people like Gray and Keys and the people who defend them.

[greenlex]

No, it ISN'T funny - but it illustrates perfectly the level of intellectual development of some people like Gray and Keys and the people who defend them.
Doddie I do not think I am sexist but in the context if the events that is funny. You need to lighten up.

[Removed]

No, it ISN'T funny - but it illustrates perfectly the level of intellectual development of some people like Gray and Keys and the people who defend them.

:agree: I got that emailed to me this afternoon and hit the delete button right away

[hibsbollah]

I'm sorry, hibsbollah.

It must be that I lack a sense of humour, or perhaps am unable to appreciate the rapier wit and lightning repartee such as we are talking of.

Perhaps if the SFA were to appoint Gray as Referee Supervisor - he could make all aspiring referees parade naked in front of him, and only those with the genital appendages essential for the interpretation of the Offside Law would then be appointed...

Because, as an old friend said to me just yesterday (in this very context) - "It takes a prick to know a prick..."

:greengrin

A fact thats been largely passed over is the exceptionally good decision that she made; at first glance it looked like a blatant offside but after second viewing it was one of those spectacularly good decisions that gives you faith in the officials. Not that a wrong decision would have made the comments any less ridiculous.

[iwasthere1972]

That's not funny!:faf::faf:

Oh yes it is. :greengrin

[ScottB]

Had he been laughing and joking at the time, then he may have gotten away with it. To me, in both clips, he sounds dead serious, and that's his problem. Dunno about him, but if I was miced up, I'd be making damn sure it was off before I said anything stupid!

At a fundamental level, he has been caught on camera / tape slagging off and questioning the competence of an official, who has so far it would seem, made every call spot on. That's a bit of a stick one in of itself.

I know the common reaction is to bemoan political correctness and the like, but I personally think he wasn't making a joke, the other guy hasn't been sacked, perhaps he was happy to apologise but Gray refused? Who knows. Plenty comedy shows still make jokes about stereotypes, so it's not like such things have become illegal. Time and a place and all that.

Of course, women are an increasing market for Sky to sell too, punting Gray was a no brainer.

[iwasthere1972]

Doddie I do not think I am sexist but in the context if the events that is funny. You need to lighten up.

:agree: If we keep this up what will we be allowed to laugh at.

[calder45a]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png



I have to reiterate this is not my opinion.
But I had to share it.

[The_Todd]

:agree: Jurassic Park springs to mind !

Kickback or FollowFollow sprung to my mind.

[--------]

:greengrin

A fact thats been largely passed over is the exceptionally good decision that she made; at first glance it looked like a blatant offside but after second viewing it was one of those spectacularly good decisions that gives you faith in the officials. Not that a wrong decision would have made the comments any less ridiculous.


Yup. She got it absolutely 100% correct. I wonder how many men in the stadium had to have 4 or 5 viewings before it sank in?

And I wonder how many Wolves' fans came away from the game girning, "Stupid women - shouldn't be allowed near a football match..."?

I wonder whether it's actually sunk in on Gray just how stupid and bigotted he now appears? Naw, I don't suppose it ever will, either.

[steviecarnie]

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j326/calder45/GetInline.png

just stuck that on facebook and had more likes from women than men!!!

[greenlex]

just stuck that on facebook and had more likes from women than men!!!
Thats because if you take in context of events it is funny.

[Removed]

just stuck that on facebook and had more likes from women than men!!!

Andy Gray can use that in his appeal then :thumbsup:

[PatHead]

:greengrin

A fact thats been largely passed over is the exceptionally good decision that she made; at first glance it looked like a blatant offside but after second viewing it was one of those spectacularly good decisions that gives you faith in the officials. Not that a wrong decision would have made the comments any less ridiculous.

Personally I didn't think it was a superb decision. It was quite simply a correct decision. She was simply doing her well paid job. I'm sure the odd male official get decisions like this correct week in, week out without being praised like this. Good luck to her but don't patronise her by analysing a decision she got correct.

[The_Todd]

Personally I didn't think it was a superb decision. It was quite simply a correct decision. She was simply doing her well paid job. I'm sure the odd male official get decisions like this correct week in, week out without being praised like this. Good luck to her but don't patronise her by analysing a decision she got correct.

Nobody's patronising, only pointing out the irony that the same day Andy Gray says "women don't understand offside", a female official gets a marginal offside decision spot on.

[Leicester Fan]

Following Andy Gray's dismissal Richard Keys has been demoted as well.














He's now their hairier sales manager

[--------]

Following Andy Gray's dismissal Richard Keys has been demoted as well.

He's now their hairier sales manager


Demoted to WHAT?

What's lower than a Richard Keys?

.... they're calling him Andy Gray now? :rolleyes:

[Sir David Gray]

Guy's just been on the BBC news commenting on the Andy Gray issue, with the job title "football equality campaigner".

Just when I thought I had heard it all. :rolleyes:

I'd love to know who pays this guy's salary.

[CropleyWasGod]

Guy's just been on the BBC news commenting on the Andy Gray issue, with the job title "football equality campaigner".

Just when I thought I had heard it all. :rolleyes:

I'd love to know who pays this guy's salary.

The FA

http://www.kickitout.org/1270.php

[One Day Soon]

Had he been laughing and joking at the time, then he may have gotten away with it. To me, in both clips, he sounds dead serious, and that's his problem. Dunno about him, but if I was miced up, I'd be making damn sure it was off before I said anything stupid!

At a fundamental level, he has been caught on camera / tape slagging off and questioning the competence of an official, who has so far it would seem, made every call spot on. That's a bit of a stick one in of itself.

I know the common reaction is to bemoan political correctness and the like, but I personally think he wasn't making a joke, the other guy hasn't been sacked, perhaps he was happy to apologise but Gray refused? Who knows. Plenty comedy shows still make jokes about stereotypes, so it's not like such things have become illegal. Time and a place and all that.

Of course, women are an increasing market for Sky to sell too, punting Gray was a no brainer.

I know we are all just a bunch of tinky, caravan dwelling, peg selling jinkies but is this some new form of hallucinogenic experience I have not previously been informed about? Maybe Gray and Keys were 'miced up' at the time and Sky should have been offering them support and rehab rather than sacking? Actually getting totally miced up beforehand would definitely help the current match day experience at ER.

[Removed]

Guy's just been on the BBC news commenting on the Andy Gray issue, with the job title "football equality campaigner".

Just when I thought I had heard it all. :rolleyes:

I'd love to know who pays this guy's salary.

FH, do you have the same view about disabled jokes and disabled equality?

[One Day Soon]

Guy's just been on the BBC news commenting on the Andy Gray issue, with the job title "football equality campaigner".

Just when I thought I had heard it all. :rolleyes:

I'd love to know who pays this guy's salary.

Marvellous. A totally essential role and not at all something that could be done by eg, press officers, HR managers, community coaches and a whole bunch of others already working in football.

[Leishy1995]

He is a great pundit and in a few months we will see him on another station, an above post says you don't need arrows all over the place to explain something, well that can be your job, whats your footballing experience? He explains things from angles that can prove a decision one way or another. he'd prbably be a better manager for Hibs than any of the past duds, he knows exactly where you should be what run to make, what position the defenders should take up. He will be missed.

[CB_NO3]

I could easily do Andy Grays job. All he does is state the obvious. If you have any clue about football at all you will see that.

[Removed]

Just heard that the SFA have asked Andy Gray to do the toast to the lassies at their Burns supper :greengrin

[--------]

Marvellous. A totally essential role and not at all something that could be done by eg, press officers, HR managers, community coaches and a whole bunch of others already working in football.


Well, going by the opinions expressed by some on this thread, I'd say that campaigning for equality and respect for all involved in football - players, officials and coaches at all levels of the game - WAS pretty essential.

But maybe he should have been called "dinosaur hunter", 'cos there seems to be an awful lot of dinosaurs about these days... :rolleyes:

[lucky]

I subscribe and enjoy the coverage AG never bothered me one way or the other but he had to go. His comments are unacceptable from a TV broadcaster.

[One Day Soon]

Just heard that the SFA have asked Andy Gray to do the toast to the lassies at their Burns supper :greengrin

I think you mean 'Burds supper' don't you?

[Removed]

I think you mean 'Burds supper' don't you?

:greengrin

[Stonewall]

Where's the "I don't subscribe because I hate Rupert Murdoch" option?

[Pretty Boy]

No, it ISN'T funny - but it illustrates perfectly the level of intellectual development of some people like Gray and Keys and the people who defend them.

:agree:

Woman with hoover and shopping bag. What unbelievable wit.

[--------]

I have Sky, but I have no liking or respect for Andy Gray - as already said, all he does is state the blindingly obvious - probably after someone else has said it in his earpiece first.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I have friends that work for sky and apparently they have been inundated with calls today with people cancelling sky/sky sports because gray has been sacked.

Absolutely mental

[One Day Soon]

Well, going by the opinions expressed by some on this thread, I'd say that campaigning for equality and respect for all involved in football - players, officials and coaches at all levels of the game - WAS pretty essential.

But maybe he should have been called "dinosaur hunter", 'cos there seems to be an awful lot of dinosaurs about these days... :rolleyes:

I'm sure that campaigning for equality and respect for all involved in football is very important. I'm equally sure that spending money on a 'football equality campaigner' would be just about the worst way to achieve anything, other of course than leaflets, policies and guidance to fill up those important spaces in cupboards where no one goes. Actually I can't really bring myself to believe that either the FA, the SFA or anyone else really does employ someone as a 'football equality campaigner'. Even in this country - by which I mean Britain and Scotland - redundant posturing cannot have been taken quite so institutionally far. Every pound spent on anyone doing that job would be far better spent on others already working in football in actually useful roles to push the same message as part of their broader remit, eg community coaches

[Pretty Boy]

Guy's just been on the BBC news commenting on the Andy Gray issue, with the job title "football equality campaigner".

Just when I thought I had heard it all. :rolleyes:

I'd love to know who pays this guy's salary.

You would disagree that football needs someone dealing with and campaigning for equality?

Given the levels of sectarian, racist, homophobic and sexist abuse heard and demonstrated throughout the game at all levels i would say this is a hugely worthwhile position.

[One Day Soon]

:agree:

Woman with hoover and shopping bag. What unbelievable wit.

I don't find it particularly funny - but out of curiosity how would you defend or address the claim made in this thread (assuming it to be true) that this image on Facebook attracted a larger number of women than men who found it funny?

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't find it particularly funny - but out of curiosity how would you defend or address the claim made in this thread (assuming it to be true) that this image on Facebook attracted a larger number of women than men who found it funny?

Maybe men are less willing to declare that they find it funny, for fear of being branded?

TBH, though, Facebook is not the most reliable of places to gauge public opinion.

[Removed]

I don't find it particularly funny - but out of curiosity how would you defend or address the claim made in this thread (assuming it to be true) that this image on Facebook attracted a larger number of women than men who found it funny?

Maybe it's cos all the women are on facebook and the men are doing something more useful :greengrin

[Removed]

Maybe men are less willing to declare that they find it funny, for fear of being branded?

TBH, though, Facebook is not the most reliable of places to gauge public opinion.

And hibs.net is :wink:

[One Day Soon]

Can we have another option?

'I subscribe to Sky and think the football coverage is pretty good, however there is next to nothing to compare it to as it has no competitors and it is very good in parts but trite in others.'

[Pretty Boy]

I don't find it particularly funny - but out of curiosity how would you defend or address the claim made in this thread (assuming it to be true) that this image on Facebook attracted a larger number of women than men who found it funny?

I suppose humour is subjective. I don't fail to find it funny because i am grossly offended by it, it's not a particularly controverial or offensive picture.

It's also, IMO, not very clever. Picture of a woman linesperson mildly involved in some controversy lets photoshop in a hoover and a few shopping bags. Not something that makes me laugh i'm afraid. As for more women than men finding it funny well i have no idea. As i said it's not particularly offensive but i guess some people regardless of sex still find stereotypes funny.

[iwasthere1972]

Demoted to WHAT?

What's lower than a Richard Keys?

.... they're calling him Andy Gray now? :rolleyes:

He's hosting Sky TV's new "Womens Institute" Channel due to be broadcast in April.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Andy gray may not be everyones cup of tea, but imo it seems a bit harsh to sack the man, and the whole reaction to it has blown way out of proportion, and a lot of posters on this thread are quite sanctimonious and hypocritical, can any man/woman honestly say they have never called anyone a "bird" , "stallion" or words of the same effect ?

[Pretty Boy]

I have Sky and i hate the EPL coverage. Full of self congratulatory nonsense about the best league in the world and the best players being desperate to play in that league. Overblown analysis of minute details and an almost embarassing failure to just admit a game was pish when it was.

On saying that i said on another thread i really enjoy the coverage of the real best league in the world (quality wise) La Liga. Guiellem Balague is worth 100 of Andy Gray (even if he is an ESpanyol supporter), they get interesting guests who are articulate and knowledgable such as Michel Salgado and Michael Laudrup and Revista De La Liga is probably the best football magazine show anywhere.

[One Day Soon]

I suppose humour is subjective. I don't fail to find it funny because i am grossly offended by it, it's not a particularly controverial or offensive picture.

It's also, IMO, not very clever. Picture of a woman linesperson mildly involved in some controversy lets photoshop in a hoover and a few shopping bags. Not something that makes me laugh i'm afraid. As for more women than men finding it funny well i have no idea. As i said it's not particularly offensive but i guess some people regardless of sex still find stereotypes funny.

It is interesting because I think there are two sets of opinion at work here. There's the multi-faceted versions of public opinion and then there's the very dangerous territory of acceptable opinion as defined by a slightly intangible grouping of the media, politicians and an assortment of other opinion formers.

I suspect Gray would have survived comfortably in the first with an apology but the bullseye put on his forehead by the second group was never coming off. And once the media pack smells blood you are dead meat.

My limited knowledge of him does not incline me to shed many tears.

[Sir David Gray]

FH, do you have the same view about disabled jokes and disabled equality?

I don't mind jokes about myself, as long as I'm not turned away from a job, that I know I am capable of doing, because of my disability and as long as I don't get abused in the street then I am completely at ease with people making the odd joke about me. I even poke fun at myself at times, due to the fact that I am in a wheelchair etc.

However, what I will say is, I think making jokes about people with severe learning difficulties is completely different from just about every other kind of abuse that you can think of (such as racism, sexism, homophobia and even jokes about the physically disabled etc) as the people who suffer from these kinds of disabilities cannot defend themselves and do not realise that they are being made fun of.

I think it takes a sick type of person to poke fun at someone with a severe learning disability.

[Mibbes Aye]

I have Sky and i hate the EPL coverage. Full of self congratulatory nonsense about the best league in the world and the best players being desperate to play in that league. Overblown analysis of minute details and an almost embarassing failure to just admit a game was pish when it was.

On saying that i said on another thread i really enjoy the coverage of the real best league in the world (quality wise) La Liga. Guiellem Balague is worth 100 of Andy Gray (even if he is an ESpanyol supporter), they get interesting guests who are articulate and knowledgable such as Michel Salgado and Michael Laudrup and Revista De La Liga is probably the best football magazine show anywhere.

:agree: In fairness, you've probably let Gray off lightly there :greengrin