Gray & Keys put their foot in it - Gray sacked by Sky (merged)

[One Day Soon]

I have Sky and i hate the EPL coverage. Full of self congratulatory nonsense about the best league in the world and the best players being desperate to play in that league. Overblown analysis of minute details and an almost embarassing failure to just admit a game was pish when it was.

On saying that i said on another thread i really enjoy the coverage of the real best league in the world (quality wise) La Liga. Guiellem Balague is worth 100 of Andy Gray (even if he is an ESpanyol supporter), they get interesting guests who are articulate and knowledgable such as Michel Salgado and Michael Laudrup and Revista De La Liga is probably the best football magazine show anywhere.

Agreed. The coverage of La Liga is, all round, superb. Helped by the fact that the football is outstanding - fast, skillful, open, attacking, passionate, well attended and exciting. Especially when Barca are on.

[CB_NO3]

Only when Barca are on you mean. The league is a farce. A complete two horse race.

[One Day Soon]

Only when Barca are on you mean. The league is a farce. A complete two horse race.

Pots and kettles. Despite the two horse nature of it the football played in most games is excellent.

[CB_NO3]

Different opinions I suppose, but lets no go into that debate just now amd hijack the thread.

[woodythehibee]

I have a sky subscription, Ive also met Mr Gray on more than one occasion and believe me he's a fud of the highest order IMO.

Can you expand?

[Removed]

I don't mind jokes about myself, as long as I'm not turned away from a job, that I know I am capable of doing, because of my disability and as long as I don't get abused in the street then I am completely at ease with people making the odd joke about me. I even poke fun at myself at times, due to the fact that I am in a wheelchair etc.

However, what I will say is, I think making jokes about people with severe learning difficulties is completely different from just about every other kind of abuse that you can think of (such as racism, sexism, homophobia and even jokes about the physically disabled etc) as the people who suffer from these kinds of disabilities cannot defend themselves and do not realise that they are being made fun of.

I think it takes a sick type of person to poke fun at someone with a severe learning disability.

Ok I get that, and having spent time with some blind folk I understand it. The bit in bold though - If it was up to Gray, Keys and others on here the lady in question would be denied the opportunity to do the job she is capable of doing because of her gender. Surely that is the same as your point and wrong, and therefore so is making jokes about it?

[Sylar]

I HAD a Sky Sports subscription, but have cancelled it in the last few weeks. Nothing to do with morals/coverage quality per se - I was just getting a bid fed up paying for something I don't have enough time or inclination to use at the minute.

I can see both sides of the argument really - if he were sacked purely on the basis of his comments from the weekend, then I would indeed agree that it was an over the top reaction - that's not to suggest that sexism is an issue which should be taken lightly, but considering the context, the fact that they both thought it was a private discussion (who here hasn't joked about women not knowing the offside rule - the only difference these days is that most men don't know it either!), it would have been unfair to remove them for this instance alone.

However, considering the other evidence which has appeared and his apparent history of inappropriate behaviour towards some of the other Sky presenters, it's probably a good decision to remove him both for the business and the wellbeing of those who also work for Sky Sports and don't have a d**k.

In terms of his analysis, Gray does come across as knowledgeable and had a good commentary partnership with Martin Tyler, but he's not above indiscipline, and quite clearly the warnings issued previously haven't sunk in, and hell mend him.

The sad reality is that his work as a pundit is no doubt held in such high regard that another broadcaster will snap him up and his continued attitude towards women will remain unchecked. He should be forced to deal with some degree of outreach/community work within women's football to try and advance his prehistoric ideals.

[Munson7]

Only when Barca are on you mean. The league is a farce. A complete two horse race.

When you have Barca (who are quite possibly one of the greatest teams of all time) and Real Madrid (who have spent upwards of 300 million in the past two seasons) then no wonder it is a two horse race. This does not however make the league a farce. The quality in Spain is far superior to anything else on telly, you hardly ever watch a Spanish game that isn't highly entertaining, I wish the same could be said of the EPL.

And I do subscribe to Sky Sports but am glad to see Gray go, when he started talking about Messi not being good enough to play at places like Stoke and Wigan I lost the little respect I had left for him.

[CB_NO3]

La Liga is not even a challenge for Messi and Ronaldo. They average over a goal a game. Messi would not score 65 goals in 60 games in the EPL. No chance. And it is a farce, even the Deportivo fans said so themselves last week by displaying a banner saying "we dont want another SPL".

[Munson7]

La Liga is not even a challenge for Messi and Ronaldo. They average over a goal a game. Messi would not score 65 goals in 60 games in the EPL. No chance. And it is a farce, even the Deportivo fans said so themselves last week by displaying a banner saying "we dont want another SPL".

Ronaldo also scored 31 goals in 34 games one season for Man Utd so obviously the Premiership wasn't a challenge for him either... And he's now playing in a better team. You're right about Messi though, he wouldn't score the same amount of goals, beacuse he'd be playing for a much weaker team without Xavi/Iniesta and the rest setting him up, if the whole Barca team played in the EPL he would be just as successful.

So beacuse the Deportivo fans say they don't want another SPL it makes it a farce, good logic...

[CB_NO3]

It is a good logic hence why Spanish grounds are empty week in week out. They cant be bothered with their own product so why should anyone else. Both leagues have their good and bad points and as I said I cant be bothered discussing them just now. This debate has been done to death and their will never be a right or wrong answer.

P.S. Am not bumming up the EPL either. Am not a fan of modern football to be honest with you.

[Munson7]

It is a good logic hence why Spanish grounds are empty week in week out. They cant be bothered with their own product so why should anyone else. Both leagues have their good and bad points and as I said I cant be bothered discussing them just now. This debate has been done to death and their will never be a right or wrong answer.

P.S. Am not bumming up the EPL either. Am not a fan of modern football to be honest with you.

You're right there will never be a right or wrong answer, just opinions and where do they get us lol.

:flag::flag::flag:

[CB_NO3]

Ronaldo also scored 31 goals in 34 games one season for Man Utd so obviously the Premiership wasn't a challenge for him either... And he's now playing in a better team. You're right about Messi though, he wouldn't score the same amount of goals, beacuse he'd be playing for a much weaker team without Xavi/Iniesta and the rest setting him up, if the whole Barca team played in the EPL he would be just as successful.

So beacuse the Deportivo fans say they don't want another SPL it makes it a farce, good logic...
Its stupid to say Real Madrid are better than Man Utd when they have qualified for the last 8 in the Champs League bout once in the last 6 years.

[Munson7]

Its stupid to say Real Madrid are better than Man Utd when they have qualified for the last 8 in the Champs League bout once in the last 6 years.

I didn't say they were better than them 6 years ago, or 5 years ago. I'm saying in my opinion they are better than them now, due to spending upwards of 300 million in the last two seasons.

[CB_NO3]

I was fishing for a reaction mate. Again who are we to decide. You never know they might play each other in the Champs League. We will find out then. We both agree that Barca are the best in the world but.

[Munson7]

Lol thought it was odd that you seemed to want to start up the "debate" again, I didn't realise you were doing a spot of late-night fishing, got yourself a catch too! :wink:

[SmokieJoe]

What he said was not right, but his football nounce has to be respected.

to coin a phrase 'taking the gamble' an AG quote for how many years?

I'm not saying for one minute that he is totally innocent, but as stated on other news programms, he is fighting Rupert Murdoch in a NSOW couart case (now or soon) anf Murdoch ( no not Colin) could quite easily instruct others to leave mic's on etc.

The man has a Footie brain, can BBC/ITV/Sky replace him?

IDK tbh

[libernian]

I have Sky and i hate the EPL coverage. Full of self congratulatory nonsense about the best league in the world and the best players being desperate to play in that league. Overblown analysis of minute details and an almost embarassing failure to just admit a game was pish when it was.

On saying that i said on another thread i really enjoy the coverage of the real best league in the world (quality wise) La Liga. Guiellem Balague is worth 100 of Andy Gray (even if he is an ESpanyol supporter), they get interesting guests who are articulate and knowledgable such as Michel Salgado and Michael Laudrup and Revista De La Liga is probably the best football magazine show anywhere.

nacho novo was on it too once.. was actually quite funny seen him on it tho.

have to say tho that balague guy is really good. and he can speak far better english than nacho novo can.. tbh find the league pretty boring involving real madrid / barca. sometimes get good games like valencia v espanyol that kinda thing tho.

[greenlex]

Well, going by the opinions expressed by some on this thread, I'd say that campaigning for equality and respect for all involved in football - players, officials and coaches at all levels of the game - WAS pretty essential.

But maybe he should have been called "dinosaur hunter", 'cos there seems to be an awful lot of dinosaurs about these days... :rolleyes:
I think this hypocritical post is the icing on the cake. This post from a man of the cloth that posts on the Towel signing thread a joke about Celtic fans being unwashed. Selective in your definition of Dinosaur?

[marinello59]

I don't find it particularly funny - but out of curiosity how would you defend or address the claim made in this thread (assuming it to be true) that this image on Facebook attracted a larger number of women than men who found it funny?
One person who thinks this has all been an over reaction to Grays remarks claims to have posted the image on his personal FaceBook page. Not really a controlled study is it? I could counter that by saying I posted it on my FB page and every woman hated it. That would be just as meaningless.

[Beefster]

I've got Sky, had it since the early days and love the football coverage. They're streets ahead of anyone else. Just like the BBC though, there are pundits who add stuff to their coverage and some who don't. Andy Gray doesn't add anything. He's a bit like 'the Alans' on BBC.

Guys like Lee Dixon and Martin Keown put all these guys to shame.

[Steve-O]

Don't get the Gray/Tyler commentary over here but obviously seen and heard plenty before I left.

Didn't really mind Gray at all although must admit while the tactical analysis etc was good back in the old days (90's), I have no real interest in watching any of that sort of stuff now and can't imagine that many people do?

[Supraninja]

I have Sky but only tend to watch the match itself and go and do other things during the pre match, half time and post match analysis. I knew Andy Gray was a football related person but couldn't have put a face to the name or even have been able to link him to Sky if I was asked before the last couple of days. In fact I still don't even know what he said.

The one thing that bugs me about all of this is that I can't help but feeling it's going to have a negative impact on Massey's career.

[Septimus]

Looks to me as though Andy Gray must have bust a few coupons in his day or perhaps a misdirected shot at Tannadice knocked over a can or two of Tennants. What a lot of sactimonious over the top drivel has been written on this thread.

The female of the species is different from the male. That is a fact. They will not gain my respect by trying to be men or trying to do the things that men do even though they may do them better. The day men stop remarking about females will be the day the human race begins to peter out.

Chill !!

[marinello59]

Looks to me as though Andy Gray must have bust a few coupons in his day or perhaps a misdirected shot at Tannadice knocked over a can or two of Tennants. What a lot of sactimonious over the top drivel has been written on this thread.

The female of the species is different from the male. That is a fact. They will not gain my respect by trying to be men or trying to do the things that men do even though they may do them better. The day men stop remarking about females will be the day the human race begins to peter out.

Chill !!

There has been a lot of decent posts from both sides of the argument. Thankfully not too many resorting to mere abuse of those who disagree with them.

Have you really thought the second highlighted part through?

[lapsedhibee]

I have friends that work for sky and apparently they have been inundated with calls today with people cancelling sky/sky sports because gray has been sacked.

That can't be right shirley. How would dinosaurs - for the callers must be dinosaurs - be able to dial in using modern telephone keypads? :dunno:

[heretoday]

I'm not 100% sure I understand the offside law myself.

If I am standing in an offside position and the ball hits a defender and comes to me, does that automatically put me onside? :confused:

I'd an idea that rule was changed some years ago. Don't worry I'm not running the line tonight!

[Betty Boop]

Richard Keys faces more accusations.

http://www.fanhouse.co.uk/2011/01/26/now-richard-keys-faces-more-accusations-of-sexism-at-sky-sports/

[khib70]

Richard Keys faces more accusations.

http://www.fanhouse.co.uk/2011/01/26/now-richard-keys-faces-more-accusations-of-sexism-at-sky-sports/
Good

As for Andy Gray, I despair sometimes. Will overweight, sexist, ex Hun neanderthals ever understand the offside law?

[blackpoolhibs]

Richard Keys on talksport now.

[lapsedhibee]

Will overweight, sexist, ex Hun neanderthals ever understand the offside law?

Can't think of anyone except - conceivably - Terry Butcher to whom that description might be accurately applied.

[khib70]

Can't think of anyone except - conceivably - Terry Butcher to whom that description might be accurately applied.

From the Wikipedia entry of a certain person (clue -not Terry Butcher).

"In the summer of 1988, he joined Rangers, the team he has supported all his life. He spent one season at Ibrox, helping them win the Scottish Premier Division title - the first of nine successive titles they would win"

I withdraw the "ex"

[marinello59]

From the Wikipedia entry of a certain person (clue -not Terry Butcher).

"In the summer of 1988, he joined Rangers, the team he has supported all his life. He spent one season at Ibrox, helping them win the Scottish Premier Division title - the first of nine successive titles they would win"

I withdraw the "ex"

I remember falling about laughing at some of his attempts to run when he played for the Huns. He was well past it.

[--------]

I've got Sky, had it since the early days and love the football coverage. They're streets ahead of anyone else. Just like the BBC though, there are pundits who add stuff to their coverage and some who don't. Andy Gray doesn't add anything. He's a bit like 'the Alans' on BBC.

Guys like Lee Dixon and Martin Keown put all these guys to shame.


:agree:

It's called 'professionalism'.

Mind you, would you say that Dixon and Keown are 'real men'? Like Gray and Keys? :cool2:

[Septimus]

There has been a lot of decent posts from both sides of the argument. Thankfully not too many resorting to mere abuse of those who disagree with them.

Have you really thought the second highlighted part through?

I don't quite follow your argument. Am I resorting to mere abuse?

[blackpoolhibs]

I wonder if any of those roundly castigating Gray and Keys ever watch Sky's soccer am. I'd imagine they turn it off when the soccerette piece comes on? Or do they secretly want her to win the competition and collect her trophy on the trampoline?:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder if any of those roundly castigating Gray and Keys ever watch Sky's soccer am. I'd imagine they turn it off when the soccerette piece comes on? Or do they secretly want her to win the competition and collect her trophy on the trampoline?:wink:

I do. I normally go and make the coffee when that bit's on. Not through any sense of moral outrage, more that it bores me. I don't like it, that's all.

[blackpoolhibs]

I do. I normally go and make the coffee when that bit's on. Not through any sense of moral outrage, more that it bores me. I don't like it, that's all.

You prefer coffee to beautiful women, with skimpy tops jumping up and down on a trampoline showing off their trophy, or trophy's? :confused: :wink:

[marinello59]

I don't quite follow your argument. Am I resorting to mere abuse?

I don't know. Do you think describing those who disagree with you of posting ''a lot of sactimonious over the top drivel '' is abusive or merely dismissive sneering?

It's the second point I highlighted in your post that really intrigues me though.

[heretoday]

Richard Keys was on about "dark forces" this afternoon. He sounded like David Icke!

Honestly, he would have been better keeping schtum for a couple of weeks until the media world moved on.

He panicked though and I think made a bit of a whining berk of himself on the radio.

He also claimed that he'd phoned the lineswoman, apologised and indulged in banter with her. Well we've only got his word for that.

Poor girl. I wouldn't blame her if she gave up the game and became a traffic warden for a quieter life!

[greenlex]

Richard Keys was on about "dark forces" this afternoon. He sounded like David Icke!

Honestly, he would have been better keeping schtum for a couple of weeks until the media world moved on.

He panicked though and I think made a bit of a whining berk of himself on the radio.

He also claimed that he'd phoned the lineswoman, apologised and indulged in banter with her. Well we've only got his word for that.

Poor girl. I wouldn't blame her if she gave up the game and became a traffic warden for a quieter life!

The Dark Forces he was alluding to would be the Murdoch empire that is obviously gunning for Gray who is suing NOTW.
Keys has been caught up in it.
He claimed he had tried to phone Karen Brady but she wouldn't accept his call.

Thats up to her but she is playing "the victim" well.

This episode has a lot more to it than them making fools of themselves OFF AIR.

[Brizo]

Gray had to go. Keys should go. But how complicit were Sky in allowing and cultivating a lads mag culture when it suited them.

Would Claire Balding or Michelle McManus get a job as a female Sky Sports presenter ? While im sure there adverts dont say it from the evidence on screen it seems that only young good looking blondes need apply. Also very obvious that their original main female presenter Claire Tomlinson (?) is now a bit part player. It seems that as shes gotten older and bigger (like a lot of us) shes getting less and less time on screen.

Im not condoning Gray and Keys behaviour but create a 1970s dolly bird Benny Hill enviroment where women are judged primarily on their looks and you'll get Benny Hill behaviour.

[Woody1985]

I was asked during a job interview when I had to explain something difficult to someone and I used explaining the offside rule to my girlfriend as an example.

Two women were interviewing me and were having a laugh and saying they never had a clue.

I Just improvised on the spot and hadn't actually explained it to anyone. I also said I explained it when watching a game 'the other night' during the close season. Dumb women who don't know about football!

I got the job.:greengrin

[Gettin' Auld]

Keys has resigned.......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/richard-keys-resigns-sky-sports

[Randerson_4]

Jamie Redknapp was asked by Richard Keys if he 'smashed it' talking about Charlotte Jackson. 'I used to go out with her'.*
Good boy, good boy but the answer your looking for is '**** aye Richard'

[Hibs90]

Having successfully introduced female referees to premier league football, the FA are now going to change some of the terminology used:

Replace "******" with "Bean-flicker" in the chant "The referee's a...."
"Flags" are to be replaced with "Flaps".
Players no longer "score", instead they "woo" a goal.
Teams can no longer have a "substitute" and have to remain faithful to their chosen ones.
"Red cards" will now be pink.
The game will no longer be of two halves but of two periods.
and of course, "extra time" is to be replaced with 5 minutes before the match to be known as "fore play".