Transfer Activity

[stokesmessiah]

With our horrendous run showing no signs of stopping anytime soon and with all the comments made by our board about backing CC and CC himself yesterday alluding in his post match interview to at least 2 new signings, what do people think we will see in this last week of the window(before it "slams" shut)??

Also, if you were in CC's shoes what would be the couple of signings you would make??

For me we need another option up top and a midfielder that puts 80% of his teeth in a glass before kick-off.

But we are also short at LB and i am far from convinced about that CB pairing that we have either, so in short CC has his work cut out.

Thoughts????


Yours,

A Concerned Citizen

[Barney McGrew]

I think we'll get a CH, two strikers and another midfielder.

[stokesmessiah]

I think we'll get a CH, two strikers and another midfielder.

I like your optimistic approach...Hibs, 5 signings in one week???

[Barney McGrew]

I like your optimistic approach...Hibs, 5 signings in one week???

It wouldn't surprise me. We been looking at players in all those positions, so it's clear CC thinks they need strengthened.

Did we not do five signings or so in a week when Collins was in charge?

[stokesmessiah]

It wouldn't surprise me. We been looking at players in all those positions, so it's clear CC thinks they need strengthened.

Did we not do five signings or so in a week when Collins was in charge?

Hmm Vague recollection, i am sure someone will confirm. My only concern is look how those signings turned out!! I hope its quality over quantity. Although, in saying that even if it was just quantity they could not be any worse than that mob.

[MrSmith]

Nothing will happen and the board will continue to procrastinate!

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Hmm Vague recollection, i am sure someone will confirm. My only concern is look how those signings turned out!! I hope its quality over quantity. Although, in saying that even if it was just quantity they could not be any worse than that mob.

Aye, we signed one a day for about 18 weeks. Well, nearly. Joneleit was one of them.

[H!BEE]

praying for a centre half, a right back, a left back, a striker, and a Winger.

[J-C]

I think CC was hoping to get through this season with the players at hand but obviously with this stinking bunch of non triers he's been forced into trying to get guys in during this window. This is never easy, so a couple of loanees might come in to shore things up, with another 2 signings added...........I'd like to see a big commanding CB, 2 big strong midfielders and a CF.

[Gala Foxes]

and a coach that can coach , motivate & change things in games that are going against us

[greenlex]

One centre back
One Striker
I think that will be it. If there was another it will be in midfield.
I also believe they will be either or a mixture of two things. Seasoned pros to keep us up and/or real quality to keep us up and kick on but that depends whats really available this window.

[The Falcon]

Aye, we signed one a day for about 18 weeks. Well, nearly. Joneleit was one of them.

Pick from Clayton Donaldson, Felipe Morais, Thierry Gatheusi, Alan O'Brien, Torban Joneleit, Brian Kerr, Yves Ma-Kalambay and Thoma Sowumni. I am sure there others but can someone point out the JC signings we moved on at a vast profit? No? Anyone?

[BEEJ]

Did we not do five signings or so in a week when Collins was in charge?
No, just three in one week.

Yves MaKalambay (01-Jul-07)
Torben Joneleit (26-Jun-07)
Alan O'Brien (25-Jun-07)

And what an array of talent!

[The Falcon]

No, just three in one week.

Yves MaKalambay (01-Jul-07)
Torben Joneleit (26-Jun-07)
Alan O'Brien (25-Jun-07)

And what an array of talent!

I know. I cant believe that Collins era is being held up as some sort of evidence that the board are crap. Absolutely astonishing.

[PeterboroHibee]

A striker, a midfielder who will actually fight for and win the ball, and a CB (preferably with a bit of experience).

Would also hope they were actually of decent quality, but seeing how theyve left it this late without really doing anything, and given it is the Hibs board, it will be some bargain basement garbage or some untested youngster on loan.

Not saying we need to go over the top, would be silly to throw lots of cash at it (as we really dont know what CC is like in the transfer market), but we need some quality to have any chance of staying up!

[E.T. is a Hibee]

With our horrendous run showing no signs of stopping anytime soon and with all the comments made by our board about backing CC and CC himself yesterday alluding in his post match interview to at least 2 new signings, what do people think we will see in this last week of the window(before it "slams" shut)??

Also, if you were in CC's shoes what would be the couple of signings you would make??

For me we need another option up top and a midfielder that puts 80% of his teeth in a glass before kick-off.

But we are also short at LB and i am far from convinced about that CB pairing that we have either, so in short CC has his work cut out.

Thoughts????


Yours,

A Concerned Citizen

We really need about three players that have bit and know how to play.

Apologies for changing the direction of the thread a wee bit but can someone tell me how, if true, are we going to be able to sign 10-15 players to replace the ones that are out of contract cause surely they will not be offering contract to the players that ar clearly not performing as expected?

Cheers

[The Falcon]

A striker, a midfielder who will actually fight for and win the ball, and a CB (preferably with a bit of experience).

Would also hope they were actually of decent quality, but seeing how theyve left it this late without really doing anything, and given it is the Hibs board, it will be some bargain basement garbage or some untested youngster on loan.

Not saying we need to go over the top, would be silly to throw lots of cash at it (as we really dont know what CC is like in the transfer market), but we need some quality to have any chance of staying up!

Ok. Who do you suggest?

[The Falcon]

One centre back
One Striker
I think that will be it. If there was another it will be in midfield.
I also believe they will be either or a mixture of two things. Seasoned pros to keep us up and/or real quality to keep us up and kick on but that depends whats really available this window.

I would even take 2 or 3 thirty somethings for six months who are languishing about in the reaserves of the EPL or the Championship just winding their contracts down. Offer to meet a percentage of their wages short term. Dependable sorts that CC knows to get us out this hole.

[greenlex]

I would even take 2 or 3 thirty somethings for six months who are languishing about in the reaserves of the EPL or the Championship just winding their contracts down. Offer to meet a percentage of their wages short term. Dependable sorts that CC knows to get us out this hole.
:agree: 100%

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I would take Ayr's Mark Roberts for the rest of the season - someone that can take a penalty!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

First off, we need a CF to play alongside Deeks. Trakys has kinda fell away. Worst scenario is to boot the ball the length of the pitch. Creativity can wait till next season. Two defenders to get a settled back four to stop them going in. I'll take loads of 0-0 and 1-0 if that keeps us up.

[Perspective]

Pick from Clayton Donaldson, Felipe Morais, Thierry Gatheusi, Alan O'Brien, Torban Joneleit, Brian Kerr, Yves Ma-Kalambay and Thoma Sowumni. I am sure there others but can someone point out the JC signings we moved on at a vast profit? No? Anyone?

He didn't get to finish the job developing players. I think it's hard to dispute if that if he'd stayed the younger players thriving under him would have continued to improve rather than stagnate. And if Ma-Kalambay reaches his potential then he'll be worth decent money.

Collins was a rookie manager who made some bad signings. Like every manager does. What he needed was support to develop. He had the strength of character and the strength of philosophy that could have taken us to a new level of professionalism. That's what we had and threw away. He would have learned about player recruitment on the job.

[greenlex]

He didn't get to finish the job developing players. I think it's hard to dispute if that if he'd stayed the younger players thriving under him would have continued to improve rather than stagnate. And if Ma-Kalambay reaches his potential then he'll be worth decent money.

Collins was a rookie manager who made some bad signings. Like every manager does. What he needed was support to develop. He had the strength of character and the strength of philosophy that could have taken us to a new level of professionalism. That's what we had and threw away. He would have learned about player recruitment on the job.

All good and well but he also needed to grasp the concept of a budget.
I also think if his signings had proved better or even looked remotely like they could have done a job that budget may have been increased a bit. Sadly it was eventually his undoing.

[The Falcon]

I like Collins. I like what he was trying to do and he was great with the youngsters but he could not pick a player to save himself. And he walked away, didnt get his own way and threw the toys out the pram! What you call strength of character others call arrogance and for strength of philosophy you could substitute ego. Whats he done since?
You could argue all you want about whether this one is going to get better or, given time, this or that would happen but there is not that time available. And none of those mentioned careers have made me change my mind. As you say Makalambay may turn out to be good keeper, he has all the attributes except one. He is a feartie. A big girls blouse. And you CANT coach that.


He didn't get to finish the job developing players. I think it's hard to dispute if that if he'd stayed the younger players thriving under him would have continued to improve rather than stagnate. And if Ma-Kalambay reaches his potential then he'll be worth decent money.

Collins was a rookie manager who made some bad signings. Like every manager does. What he needed was support to develop. He had the strength of character and the strength of philosophy that could have taken us to a new level of professionalism. That's what we had and threw away. He would have learned about player recruitment on the job.

[snooky]

He didn't get to finish the job developing players. I think it's hard to dispute if that if he'd stayed the younger players thriving under him would have continued to improve rather than stagnate. And if Ma-Kalambay reaches his potential then he'll be worth decent money.

Collins was a rookie manager who made some bad signings. Like every manager does. What he needed was support to develop. He had the strength of character and the strength of philosophy that could have taken us to a new level of professionalism. That's what we had and threw away. He would have learned about player recruitment on the job.

Just as a matter of interest, what would the acceptable level of success/failure ratio be with regards to managers signing players?
I would think that at least one in three signings should turn out to be successful. A 50/50 success rate shouldn't be too unrealistic.

That said, a lot depends on how the assessor defines success & failure.

[The Falcon]

He didn't get to finish the job developing players. I think it's hard to dispute if that if he'd stayed the younger players thriving under him would have continued to improve rather than stagnate. And if Ma-Kalambay reaches his potential then he'll be worth decent money.

Collins was a rookie manager who made some bad signings. Like every manager does. What he needed was support to develop. He had the strength of character and the strength of philosophy that could have taken us to a new level of professionalism. That's what we had and threw away. He would have learned about player recruitment on the job.

And he played young McCann at centre half???? How do you defend that?

[HibeeMG]

I definitely think we need:

A goalkeeper
A left back
A right back
2 x Centre halfs
A left midfielder
A right midfielder
2 x Centre midfielders
2 x Centre forwards
A reserve goalkeeper
A reserve left back
A reserve right back
2 x Reserve centre halfs
A reserve left midfielder
A reserve right midfielder
2 x reserve centre midfielders
2 x reserve centre forwards

:wink:

[The Falcon]

My God! We have a winner! :greengrin


I definitely think we need:

A goalkeeper
A left back
A right back
2 x Centre halfs
A left midfielder
A right midfielder
2 x Centre midfielders
2 x Centre forwards
A reserve goalkeeper
A reserve left back
A reserve right back
2 x Reserve centre halfs
A reserve left midfielder
A reserve right midfielder
2 x reserve centre midfielders
2 x reserve centre forwards

:wink:

[snooky]

And he played young McCann at centre half???? How do you defend that?

Aye, where did that decision come from?
The team sheet that day should have read "McCan't"
I felt heart sorry for the laddie.

[greenlex]

And he played young McCann at centre half???? How do you defend that?
I can actually see what he was trying to do there. Giving the player another perspective on the game . It would great if players could comfortably play different positions. Problem is Pittodrie wasnt the place to do it. ER against maybe lower league or a team well below us in the league might have been better.
Kinda sums Collins up really. Good ideas but no real clue as to how to carry them out.

[The Falcon]

Aye, where did that decision come from?
The team sheet that day should have read "McCan't"
I felt heart sorry for the laddie.

I think everybody knew that, if they didnt before they certainly did after.

Almost broke the boy, totally unfair.

[keep the faith]

I will give you names

Rob Jones
Andy Webster
Michael Stewart
Adam Rooney

Every one better than what we have. Every one has more desire. The first three are leaders. Every one has been proven in the league and every one should be achievable in terms of signings - If the board are serious about spending money in advance of the May clearout and getting out this mess.

Jones - Not getting a game at scunny
Webster - Not getting a game at the huns (if the Deeks rumours are true then swap deal?)
Stewart - Free transfer now (Sort this one out Hibs)
Rooney - Talking about a pre contract anyway (could Nish or Rankin be used as makeweights to make it happen now?. Failing that cash to get him now.)

All these options will see the spine of a good team in place and will be seriously cheaper than a season in Division 1!!

[Iain G]

I can actually see what he was trying to do there. Giving the player another perspective on the game . It would great if players could comfortably play different positions. Problem is Pittodrie wasnt the place to do it. ER against maybe lower league or a team well below us in the league might have been better.
Kinda sums Collins up really. Good ideas but no real clue as to how to carry them out.

He did also play the same player in a midfield role, to some good effect IIRC :agree: JC had ideas on the game that were probably way above the level of the SPL, I suspect as a rookie he made mistakes on handling players and the likes, he would have learned I hope given time, also he was relying on the experience of Tommy Craig to help him through, which perhaps was one of his worst decisions(?) in the job, TC would obviously have suggested O'Brien and Kerr for example.

Say what you like about him, but he knew when and how to change a game when it wasn't working, never seen such good (and sometimes early and usually effective!) use of subs at ER since...

We need to stick with CC though and get through this, together :agree:

[Iain G]

I will give you names

Rob Jones
Andy Webster
Michael Stewart
Adam Rooney

Every one better than what we have. Every one has more desire. The first three are leaders. Every one has been proven in the league and every one should be achievable in terms of signings - If the board are serious about spending money in advance of the May clearout and getting out this mess.

Jones - Not getting a game at scunny
Webster - Not getting a game at the huns (if the Deeks rumours are true then swap deal?)
Stewart - Free transfer now (Sort this one out Hibs)
Rooney - Talking about a pre contract anyway (could Nish or Rankin be used as makeweights to make it happen now?. Failing that cash to get him now.)

All these options will see the spine of a good team in place and will be seriously cheaper than a season in Division 1!!

JOnes and Stewart, ringleaders in the Collins/Players fiasco, no thanks :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

I can actually see what he was trying to do there. Giving the player another perspective on the game . It would great if players could comfortably play different positions. Problem is Pittodrie wasnt the place to do it. ER against maybe lower league or a team well below us in the league might have been better.
Kinda sums Collins up really. Good ideas but no real clue as to how to carry them out.

I would say thats fair enough but the player has to be up to the job. I got coached a couple of times by Jim Telfer who, i am convinced, thought we were New Zealand. He soon found out we werent :greengrin

Collins was, I feel, trying to introduce some *******ised version of total football.
But we werent Holland and, unlike Telfer, Collins didnt acknowledge that simple reality.

[greenlex]

He did also play the same player in a midfield role, to some good effect IIRC :agree: JC had ideas on the game that were probably way above the level of the SPL, I suspect as a rookie he made mistakes on handling players and the likes, he would have learned I hope given time, also he was relying on the experience of Tommy Craig to help him through, which perhaps was one of his worst decisions(?) in the job, TC would obviously have suggested O'Brien and Kerr for example.

Say what you like about him, but he knew when and how to change a game when it wasn't working, never seen such good (and sometimes early and usually effective!) use of subs at ER since...

We need to stick with CC though and get through this, together :agree:
No arguement here Ian.
I remember we took the lead against Celtic at ER. What does he do? We went three at the back with an extra midfielder for ten or fifteen minutes and I though at the time WTF is he doing. The immediate impact was it kept Celtic on the back foot straight after we scored and didn't allow them to do that push forward that all teams that have just lost a goal do. It also made our defence concentrate that bit more so we didn't lose the inevitable goal minutes after you score routine. We went on to win the match

[truehibernian]

No arguement here Ian.
I remember we took the lead against Celtic at ER. What does he do? We went three at the back with an extra midfielder for ten or fifteen minutes and I though at the time WTF is he doing. The immediate impact was it kept Celtic on the back foot straight after we scored and didn't allow them to do that push forward that all teams that have just lost a goal do. It also made our defence concentrate that bit more so we didn't lose the inevitable goal minutes after you score routine. We went on to win the match

Also the cup game v Aberdeen.

Just taken the lead, team goes in on a high, yet JC makes two subs, Thommo and Benji (one enforced due to MS illness)......both changed the game markedly in the space of 10 minutes or so.

One thing JC did was not hang around when changes needed to be made, that's what I liked about him. He saw the game we all saw. Had his failings of course, but not given anywhere near enough time or support.

Would have taken the team a lot further IMHO if given the right backing.

[BEEJ]

And he played young McCann at centre half???? How do you defend that?
Joneleit sitting on the bench as a CB, although used very little since recruited - and he sticks McCann in at CB.

Probably the first real sign that JC was losing the plot in the job as manager.


I can actually see what he was trying to do there. Giving the player another perspective on the game . It would great if players could comfortably play different positions.

Problem is Pittodrie wasnt the place to do it. ER against maybe lower league or a team well below us in the league might have been better.

Kinda sums Collins up really. Good ideas but no real clue as to how to carry them out.
:Ummm:

Right enough, they do say that there's a very fine line between genius and insanity.


Say what you like about him, but he knew when and how to change a game when it wasn't working, never seen such good (and sometimes early and usually effective!) use of subs at ER since...
:agree: Strengths and weaknesses and that was one of JC's clear strengths.

[Kaiser1962]

Also the cup game v Aberdeen.

Just taken the lead, team goes in on a high, yet JC makes two subs, Thommo and Benji (one enforced due to MS illness)......both changed the game markedly in the space of 10 minutes or so.

One thing JC did was not hang around when changes needed to be made, that's what I liked about him. He saw the game we all saw. Had his failings of course, but not given anywhere near enough time or support.

Would have taken the team a lot further IMHO if given the right backing.

So why have others not seen this and snapped him up?

[BEEJ]

So why have others not seen this and snapped him up?
Because of his other clear character flaws.

[The Falcon]

Also the cup game v Aberdeen.

Just taken the lead, team goes in on a high, yet JC makes two subs, Thommo and Benji (one enforced due to MS illness)......both changed the game markedly in the space of 10 minutes or so.

One thing JC did was not hang around when changes needed to be made, that's what I liked about him. He saw the game we all saw. Had his failings of course, but not given anywhere near enough time or support.

Would have taken the team a lot further IMHO if given the right backing.

I have listed nine players Collins signed who could be universally described as failures. What sort of "backing" do you suggest? A process of elimination perhaps? Out of those nine I would have expected a minimum three to be reasonably successful, which I would define as marketable. None were.

[keep the faith]

JOnes and Stewart, ringleaders in the Collins/Players fiasco, no thanks :agree:

I really dont want to turn yet another thread into that tired old JC/Revolt subject again. What I will say however is that Jones was a former teacher and Stewart regarded as one of the more intelligent people in football. Any annoyance with JC's methods would not have been knee jerk with those pair. JC made mistakes in his approach and I bet he would do things differently now, as Im sure would the players. Thats why I think both sides of that argument must be considered and we move on. I actually have heard from good authorities that neither of this pair were the ringleaders in any revolt and the main trouble makers have been let off lightly by some on here.

Anyway. Transfer targets?? I still think these pair and the other two I listed would make a big difference at this club right now.

[Beefster]

JOnes and Stewart, ringleaders in the Collins/Players fiasco, no thanks :agree:

I'm fairly sure the suggestion was that they were the two 'senior' players who did the talking on behalf of all of the players, rather than being the ones stirring the ****.

[truehibernian]

I have listed nine players Collins signed who could be universally described as failures. What sort of "backing" do you suggest? A process of elimination perhaps? Out of those nine I would have expected a minimum three to be reasonably successful, which I would define as marketable. None were.

JC certainly didn't get the same budget as Mixu or John Hughes.

He also had to watch Hibernian sell Brown, Whittaker, Thomson, had to get someone in to replace the just sold Derek Riordan. He saw the merits of putting the star player/future player on a far better contract and appeasing both Fletch and his agent. This in turn benefitted the club.

Totally agree he made mistakes. It was though his first managerial gig and I am sure he would do things differently now to an extent. But his principles and ethics were correct 100%. You are there to work, not muck about.

His signings were not the greatest but I wouldn't say failures......against Trakys would you have big MAC right now ? Against Duffy would you perhaps have Clayton ? Torben is playing for the team in Belgium currently lying second ? Would you have him instead of Dickoh ?.......who knows at the end of the day. Certainly no worse than what we have now in the side (perhaps no better too)

[snooky]

I'm fairly sure the suggestion was that they were the two 'senior' players who did the talking on behalf of all of the players, rather than being the ones stirring the ****.

IIRC, Stewart fell out with Collins when they were in Spain over JC not giving the players some slack re. going for a drink or something like that. There was also the story that MS was not at Rod's house.

The first autobiography of a player from that League Cup winning squad could potentially be a best seller. :wink:

[Earl of Currie]

I think JC was years ahead of where Hibs are just now. He has tried to bring the best bits of what he learnt on the continent to the SPL. It is like trying to teach cavemen to read.

IMO , JC should have been brought in s head of the Youth Academy ( a role I think he could still fill). He is an excellent example of a professional and if the players coming through were half as professional as he is , then we could address the off field problems as well as producing players who are fitter , better skill sets and who are more versatile players and have a better inteligence on the field.

If JC still wanted to go into management and proves himself in the role of Yough Director , then he would be a natural progression to the managers role in 3-5 years time.

The players he brought through would be established in the first team and they would be playing His/Hibs brand of football. Simlar to Guardiola at Barcelona.

[s.a.m]

JC certainly didn't get the same budget as Mixu or John Hughes.

He also had to watch Hibernian sell Brown, Whittaker, Thomson, had to get someone in to replace the just sold Derek Riordan. He saw the merits of putting the star player/future player on a far better contract and appeasing both Fletch and his agent. This in turn benefitted the club.

Totally agree he made mistakes. It was though his first managerial gig and I am sure he would do things differently now to an extent. But his principles and ethics were correct 100%. You are there to work, not muck about.

His signings were not the greatest but I wouldn't say failures......against Trakys would you have big MAC right now ? Against Duffy would you perhaps have Clayton ? Torben is playing for the team in Belgium currently lying second ? Would you have him instead of Dickoh ?.......who knows at the end of the day. Certainly no worse than what we have now in the side (perhaps no better too)

There was an interview in a Belgian or French paper linked on here a few years ago. Collins said that he approached the board, and told them that it was the right time to sell these players. He said that the reason he left was that he felt, having brought in all this money, he should have been given more to spend. I can't remember the details, but did he not refuse to extend his stay at Charleroi because they weren't up to his expectations, either?

Like a few others above, I feel he had a lot to give, but appeared to go about it in the wrong way. Perhaps, with some experience behind him now, he would do things differently.

[Edinburgh Green]

I will give you names

Rob Jones
Andy Webster
Michael Stewart
Adam Rooney

Every one better than what we have. Every one has more desire. The first three are leaders. Every one has been proven in the league and every one should be achievable in terms of signings - If the board are serious about spending money in advance of the May clearout and getting out this mess.

Jones - Not getting a game at scunny
Webster - Not getting a game at the huns (if the Deeks rumours are true then swap deal?)
Stewart - Free transfer now (Sort this one out Hibs)
Rooney - Talking about a pre contract anyway (could Nish or Rankin be used as makeweights to make it happen now?. Failing that cash to get him now.)

All these options will see the spine of a good team in place and will be seriously cheaper than a season in Division 1!!

Thing is, how many of those players would sign for a team that could potentially be playing in the first division next season?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Thing is, how many of those players would sign for a team that could potentially be playing in the first division next season?

No reason why you couldn't put a relegation release clause in the contract.

[Perspective]

I like Collins. I like what he was trying to do and he was great with the youngsters but he could not pick a player to save himself. And he walked away, didnt get his own way and threw the toys out the pram! What you call strength of character others call arrogance and for strength of philosophy you could substitute ego. Whats he done since?
You could argue all you want about whether this one is going to get better or, given time, this or that would happen but there is not that time available. And none of those mentioned careers have made me change my mind. As you say Makalambay may turn out to be good keeper, he has all the attributes except one. He is a feartie. A big girls blouse. And you CANT coach that.

I mean strength of character in relation to dealing with the loss of his Dad to bring me one of my happiest days as a Hibs fan. We won a trophy (how often does that happen?) in style playing tactically astute football with a fit bunch of players.

Also carried on after the revolt when many would have tempted to tell Petrie where to go, when his name had been unfairly dragged through the mud in the gutter red-tops.

He did a good job at Charleroi, who wanted him to stay and was, I believe, second in line for the West Ham/Monaco jobs at the last time of asking. He made mistakes (which I'd expect of a young manager) that I think he'll learn from and I also thinks he suffers from bad PR. Few people who had dealings with him can write him off as arrogant, when given all he's achieved I'd say he's pretty humble. Great in his dealings with young fans and (contrary to the myth) there were plenty within the squad who raved about his man-management.

And are you really saying that you can't develop mental strength? Through overcoming adversity or coming through periods of difficulty? Maka clearly has to be tougher in that respect, but I don't think he's done too badly given he moved abroad at a young age, speaks at least two languages fluently and got as far as he did at Chelsea.


And he played young McCann at centre half???? How do you defend that?

He also played Beuzelin at sweeper. Don't remember too many complaining about that? Arsene Wenger talks at length in his book about playing players in different positions (as they do in Dutch football) to develop an all-round appreciation of the game. Maybe he thought McCann's long-term development was more important than a single game, that he and Hibs might benefit in the long-term. I think that's a lazy stick to beat him with.

There's a reason Scotland is a country of under-achievers. Too many people aren't prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to take them to the top. I'd wager that none of the players who thought they knew better than JC will come close to matching his heights.

[BEEJ]

He also played Beuzelin at sweeper. Don't remember too many complaining about that? Arsene Wenger talks at length in his book about playing players in different positions (as they do in Dutch football) to develop an all-round appreciation of the game. Maybe he thought McCann's long-term development was more important than a single game, that he and Hibs might benefit in the long-term. I think that's a lazy stick to beat him with.

The boy was like a fish out of water from the off. He was ripped to shreds that day.

An appalling selection decision and neither the time nor place for a manager to 'experiment' with some bizarre tactical philosophy.

By all means hail JC for the qualities he demonstrated in the job, but don't scrabble around for excuses for those times when he was clearly in the wrong.

[Don Giovanni]

To go back to the OP...

What I'd really like to see is an entirely new squad of players. Since that's unlikely to happen in 8 days or whatever we have left of the transfer window, I'm hoping we bring in a striker (when was the last time we scored!?) and a couple of full backs (and another midfielder if I'm being greedy).

We need to freshen up the striking options and as discussed elsewhere someone like Adam Rooney would be an excellent addition (although I'm not convinced we'll get him).

I think we are really poor in the full-back areas and in much the same way that Nish is exasperating to watch flopping around up front, Steven Thicot is a terrible right back. Thicot has no positional sense whatsoever and Michael Hart, whom I had high hopes for when he joined, looks like he's running through sand (not unlike other senior members of the squad it has to be said).
At left back I am hoping that Booth can come in and make a good impression as the other options are again really quite poor. For Ian Murray see Michael Hart above and Stevenson can fill in if required but he's not a first choice left back IMO.

Anyway, fingers crossed for a couple of new faces. In one sense the positions any new signings fill doesn't matter too much because we need improvement throughout the entire team.

[Perspective]

The boy was like a fish out of water from the off. He was ripped to shreds that day.

An appalling selection decision and neither the time nor place for a manager to 'experiment' with some bizarre tactical philosophy.

By all means hail JC for the qualities he demonstrated in the job, but don't scrabble around for excuses for those times when he was clearly in the wrong.

I don't have to make excuses for him.

I think his biggest mistakes were a poor record in the transfer market (that may have otherwise bought him time) and an inability to get senior players onside from the off, then gradually phase in his methods.

Fail to see how it was part of 'some bizarre tactical philosophy'. When is the right time or place for a Hibs manager to experiment? Is the long-term development not more important than a single game? He tried something, it didn't work. I think his tactical positives far outweighed that one negative example. What about the win at Ibrox - achieved with a team of people written off on here as hopeless - that was only emulated that year by Lyon?

Bear in mind there were plenty on here who repeatedly suggested that Jay Shields was a better right-back than Steven Whittaker. I think we're all entitled to make the odd mistake on the football front.

[snooky]

I don't have to make excuses for him.

I think his biggest mistakes were a poor record in the transfer market (that may have otherwise bought him time) and an inability to get senior players onside from the off, then gradually phase in his methods.

Fail to see how it was part of 'some bizarre tactical philosophy'. When is the right time or place for a Hibs manager to experiment? Is the long-term development not more important than a single game? He tried something, it didn't work. I think his tactical positives far outweighed that one negative example. What about the win at Ibrox - achieved with a team of people written off on here as hopeless - that was only emulated that year by Lyon?

Bear in mind there were plenty on here who repeatedly suggested that Jay Shields was a better right-back than Steven Whittaker. I think we're all entitled to make the odd mistake on the football front.

Just for the record, if we're talking about the position of right back I still think JS was better that SW.

[BEEJ]

I don't have to make excuses for him.

I think his biggest mistakes were a poor record in the transfer market (that may have otherwise bought him time) and an inability to get senior players onside from the off, then gradually phase in his methods.

Fail to see how it was part of 'some bizarre tactical philosophy'. When is the right time or place for a Hibs manager to experiment? Is the long-term development not more important than a single game? He tried something, it didn't work. I think his tactical positives far outweighed that one negative example. What about the win at Ibrox - achieved with a team of people written off on here as hopeless - that was only emulated that year by Lyon?

Bear in mind there were plenty on here who repeatedly suggested that Jay Shields was a better right-back than Steven Whittaker. I think we're all entitled to make the odd mistake on the football front.
I think you need to read my other posts on this thread in which I have praised JC for his qualities.

There are 'experiments', such as playing Spoony at RB. And then there are 'JC's experiments' - sticking a young player (all 5ft 10 ins of him) in an untried position in an SPL fixture.

This particular decision played a key part in our defeat at Pittodrie that day and hugely undermined McCann's confidence for many months thereafter. No excuses for it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just for the record, if we're talking about the position of right back I still think JS was better that SW.

Really? I know its your opinion, but i just cant see it myself. Imo Whittaker is a good player with a very good engine, who's gone on to be a Scotland regular, JS is where???? You can only get so far in the game with a hard tackle, for me that was just about all he had. Although i did enjoy the one he did on Hartley at easter road. :thumbsup:

[Perspective]

I think you need to read my other posts on this thread in which I have praised JC for his qualities.

There are 'experiments', such as playing Spoony at RB. And then there are 'JC's experiments' - sticking a young player (all 5ft 10 ins of him) in an untried position in an SPL fixture.

This particular decision played a key part in our defeat at Pittodrie that day and hugely undermined McCann's confidence for many months thereafter. No excuses for it.

So an experiment is only OK if it works?

If McCann let one bad performance affect him so badly then he's as mentally weak as Maka. You have to be tougher than that to make it. I'm not saying he is - you can't be to come back from the injuries he has.

[BEEJ]

So an experiment is only OK if it works?

If McCann let one bad performance affect him so badly then he's as mentally weak as Maka. You have to be tougher than that to make it. I'm not saying he is - you can't be to come back from the injuries he has.
This discussion is off the topic of the thread and ends here.

[Newhaven]

Does the window end on the 31st at midnight?

One things for sure if the board do trust CC they better release funds and pay whatever the difference is in loss of revenue between staying up and going down to the SFL now. Also get rid of the deadwood such as Hogg, Nish and Rankin whilst were at it.

Other teams have players coming in who have been up and running whilst we seem to have no one lined up on the horizon. I'm sure players will come in between now and deadline day but they are needed right away not next week.

As it stands we are a rudderless ship was no leadership, fight or bottle and supposed players who think were too good to go down :agree:

If we do nothing look forward to trips to Morton, Cowdenbeath or Ross County next year.

[hibeefan95]

Does anyone know if the Adam Rooney rumours are true??

[Toaods]

Really? I know its your opinion, but i just cant see it myself. Imo Whittaker is a good player with a very good engine, who's gone on to be a Scotland regular, JS is where???? You can only get so far in the game with a hard tackle, for me that was just about all he had. Although i did enjoy the one he did on Hartley at easter road. :thumbsup:

:agree:...Shields was murder. No SPL (or Div 1?) team was interested, speaks volumes.


Whittaker is a very good player all over the park with his height and pace of recovery making im more valuable at the back. Not an out and out right back as can't ever recall anyone getting a stretcher ride after one of his tackles, ala Hutton, Nevilles, etc. Don't think Walter Smith sees him as an out and out full back as does Levein.

[BWhiteman1972]

JOnes and Stewart, ringleaders in the Collins/Players fiasco, no thanks :agree:

And there's a reason why Jones can't get a game!!

[BT58]

Does anyone know if the Adam Rooney rumours are true??

not according to the guys on the bounce,,,,,,,,seemingly were trying to get him in the summer:confused::confused:
looks like some championship team will offer far superior wages,HFC cant compete with them
the board have to get moving,as of tomorrow,not leaving it till the last day,especially as it takes a while to through medicals at ER:wink::wink:

[sesoim]

It wouldn't surprise me. We been looking at players in all those positions, so it's clear CC thinks they need strengthened.

Did we not do five signings or so in a week when Collins was in charge?


Alex Miller signed three players in one day (New Years Eve 1986). All three, Tommy McIntyre, Doug Bell and Graham Mitchell, made a decent contribution one way or another (we were about 11th at the time and finished 9th).

Although I reckon we need 7 or 8 players, realistically if we get the right kind of CB, CF and an aggressive midfielder then it might lift the place a wee bit. Sproule would be a bonus.

[Cropley10]

And there's a reason why Jones can't get a game!!

Jones not getting his game for Scunny?

[sesoim]

He did also play the same player in a midfield role, to some good effect IIRC :agree: JC had ideas on the game that were probably way above the level of the SPL, I suspect as a rookie he made mistakes on handling players and the likes, he would have learned I hope given time, also he was relying on the experience of Tommy Craig to help him through, which perhaps was one of his worst decisions(?) in the job, TC would obviously have suggested O'Brien and Kerr for example.

Say what you like about him, but he knew when and how to change a game when it wasn't working, never seen such good (and sometimes early and usually effective!) use of subs at ER since...

We need to stick with CC though and get through this, together :agree:


Is this the guy who, twice, we went on bad runs under (towards the end of 2006/07 we couldn't win a game to save ourselves, and then from game ten onwards till his resignation in 2007/08)?

I actually agree in some ways though - I think JC had potential, but Hibs should not have been his first job, he was way too naive. That's Petrie's fault for appointing a "name" without any proof the guy could do the job. And as you say, Tommy Craig was a terrible choice as assitant.

As for CC, Notts Forest had to bite the bullet when they were at the foot of the table under him, and they appointed Billy Davies. They are doing slightly better now I think :wink:. I don't think we will sack CC until March (assuming the new signings fail), but I think that may be too late. And that will be disastrous for everyone at the club, including Petrie who will HAVE to step down.

I don't really blame CC though - it's not his fault that Petrie continually makes ill-advised appointments.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Alex Miller signed three players in one day (New Years Eve 1986). All three, Tommy McIntyre, Doug Bell and Graham Mitchell, made a decent contribution one way or another (we were about 11th at the time and finished 9th).

Although I reckon we need 7 or 8 players, realistically if we get the right kind of CB, CF and an aggressive midfielder then it might lift the place a wee bit. Sproule would be a bonus.

Sproule can't sign for Hibs (or anyone else in a top division) due to the two teams rule (cf Mike Grella and James Vaughan). Calderwood already noted that a month or so ago.

What you're basically saying (and I agree with) is that Hibs need a spine. They've got some players who can fill in alongside that (Wotherspoon, Hanlon, Riordan, maybe Miller, maybe young Booth), but they need three players up the middle who can do the basics of each area well.

A centre half who can head it clear, a midfielder who can tackle well and pass reasonably and a centre forward who can protect the ball. If you got that then you would probably get improved performance out of players who have been all but written off.

[sesoim]

And there's a reason why Jones can't get a game!!


I don't care what's going on at Scunthorpe, Jones would do be a good signing for us. Our central defenders have been abysmal this season, it needs someone like Jones to come in and take control.

[sesoim]

What you're basically saying (and I agree with) is that Hibs need a spine. They've got some players who can fill in alongside that (Wotherspoon, Hanlon, Riordan, maybe Miller, maybe young Booth), but they need three players up the middle who can do the basics of each area well.

A centre half who can head it clear, a midfielder who can tackle well and pass reasonably and a centre forward who can protect the ball. If you got that then you would probably get improved performance out of players who have been all but written off.


:agree: I know most of us have at one time or another written off the whole team as a bunch of losers, but the right type of signings through the middle would give us a bit more edge and make us harder to beat. I'm not convinced CC is capable of these signings or getting his team selections right, but if we do get the right type of player in next week then maybe we can at least start grinding some points out.

[snooky]

Really? I know its your opinion, but i just cant see it myself. Imo Whittaker is a good player with a very good engine, who's gone on to be a Scotland regular, JS is where???? You can only get so far in the game with a hard tackle, for me that was just about all he had. Although i did enjoy the one he did on Hartley at easter road. :thumbsup:

Agreed, but IMO as a right back he is/was poor & a liability.
Some huns I know would second that.

Opinions, eh. :greengrin

[Del Boy]

heard a rumour that Steven Thompson ex Dundee Utd and Rangers striker will sign this week :confused:

[The Falcon]

Jones not getting his game for Scunny?

Wasnt even on the bench yesterday. Could be injured though.

[Duffys13]

and a coach that can coach , motivate & change things in games that are going against us

I am begining to wonder if it is actually possible to motivate the current team. Words cannot describe what I think of the current squad and the effort they put in.

[Toaods]

Rob Jones has been struggling recently with sciatica, so don't believe any of the guff you get posted on here that he's been dropped because of poor form.

[The Falcon]

Rob Jones has been struggling recently with sciatica, so don't believe any of the guff you get posted on here that he's been dropped because of poor form.

Thanks for that.

[jdships]

Also the cup game v Aberdeen.

Just taken the lead, team goes in on a high, yet JC makes two subs, Thommo and Benji (one enforced due to MS illness)......both changed the game markedly in the space of 10 minutes or so.

One thing JC did was not hang around when changes needed to be made, that's what I liked about him. He saw the game we all saw. Had his failings of course, but not given anywhere near enough time or support.

Would have taken the team a lot further IMHO if given the right backing.


Sorry I have to disagree with you !!
He got the support OK : problem was he didn'r support his staff as an experienced "man manager" would have done - numerous instances of young players being ignored when they needed advise and backing.

:rolleyes:
" Proof of the pudding....... etc " why has he not since been appointed manager

[ballengeich]

" Proof of the pudding....... etc " why has he not since been appointed manager

He's been manager of Charleroi in Belgium, but quit there too - a pattern is emerging.

[IWasThere2016]

Rob Jones has been struggling recently with sciatica, so don't believe any of the guff you get posted on here that he's been dropped because of poor form.

:agree: Been out a while - could be surgery soon.

[Barney McGrew]

His signings were not the greatest but I wouldn't say failures......against Trakys would you have big MAC right now ? Against Duffy would you perhaps have Clayton ? Torben is playing for the team in Belgium currently lying second ? Would you have him instead of Dickoh ?.......who knows at the end of the day. Certainly no worse than what we have now in the side (perhaps no better too)

In the same vein, would you rather have Makalambay or Mark Brown? O'Brien or Galbraith? Brian Kerr or Liam Miller? His success rate in the transfer market was not high.

And Jonelit might have improved since he left us, but that wouldn't be too hard. Any time he turned out for the reserves he was knickers.

[truehibernian]

In the same vein, would you rather have Makalambay or Mark Brown? O'Brien or Galbraith? Brian Kerr or Liam Miller? His success rate in the transfer market was not high.

And Jonelit might have improved since he left us, but that wouldn't be too hard. Any time he turned out for the reserves he was knickers.

Agreed barney, but I would definitely have big Maka rather than Dot Cotton Stack and Oven Gloves Smith :greengrin

Kerr we are agreed......hopeless footballer. But even Mixu and Parky thought there was a footballer in Alan O'Brien, and jeez, when you see the combined pace of Nish, Trakys and Duffy, even if he crossed a ball well 10 times out of 100, he would be a far better option up top at present.

In fact, I think AOB left his heart behind for Liam to use......both very cowardly IMHO.

I think all managers have had some right 'orrible players in. Something tells me though that Calderwood, if given time, will address the quality over quantity issue, and most certainly do more research into players profiles and past clubs.

[jdships]

He's been manager of Charleroi in Belgium, but quit there too - a pattern is emerging.

Exactly !
Really sad because he is lovely guy to be with socially :thumbsup:

[sunshine1875]

23 Jan 2011 18:43:53
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood is looking to strengthen the spine of the team. He has signed a midfielder and we are looking at signing a czech keeper. Also look out for a striker and centre half coming in before the month ends. (Maybe rooney, although he is keeping his options open)

23 Jan 2011 18:10:01
Hibs Rumours
Heard that Mark Baxter, centre half from Cowdenbeath is set to sign for Hibernian before the end of the month.

22 Jan 2011 01:27:14
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood interested in Newcastle kid, Bradden Inman.

[SteveHFC]

My dad just received a text from very reliable source saying we have signed Rooney pre-contract but are trying to get him now, and also we are apparently in negotiations over signing Prince Buaben and Morgaro Gomis from United. http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/SM113.gif Interesting

Taken from the Bounce.

[Callum_62]

My dad just received a text from very reliable source saying we have signed Rooney pre-contract but are trying to get him now, and also we are apparently in negotiations over signing Prince Buaben and Morgaro Gomis from United. http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/SM113.gif Interesting

Taken from the Bounce.


Surely thats a 'sit in a bath of beans' type scenario.

[iwasthere1972]

My dad just received a text from very reliable source saying we have signed Rooney pre-contract but are trying to get him now, and also we are apparently in negotiations over signing Prince Buaben and Morgaro Gomis from United. http://www.hibeesbounce.com/forum/images/smilies/SM113.gif Interesting

Taken from the Bounce.



Would be very interesting if true as at the moment there's more activity in my Y-fronts than there is at Easter Road.

[GraniteCityHibs]

23 Jan 2011 18:43:53
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood is looking to strengthen the spine of the team. He has signed a midfielder and we are looking at signing a czech keeper. Also look out for a striker and centre half coming in before the month ends. (Maybe rooney, although he is keeping his options open)

23 Jan 2011 18:10:01
Hibs Rumours
Heard that Mark Baxter, centre half from Cowdenbeath is set to sign for Hibernian before the end of the month.

22 Jan 2011 01:27:14
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood interested in Newcastle kid, Bradden Inman.

Inman? Is he freeeeee? I'll get me coat!

[J-C]

23 Jan 2011 18:43:53
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood is looking to strengthen the spine of the team. He has signed a midfielder and we are looking at signing a czech keeper. Also look out for a striker and centre half coming in before the month ends. (Maybe rooney, although he is keeping his options open)

23 Jan 2011 18:10:01
Hibs Rumours
Heard that Mark Baxter, centre half from Cowdenbeath is set to sign for Hibernian before the end of the month.

22 Jan 2011 01:27:14
Hibs Rumours
Calderwood interested in Newcastle kid, Bradden Inman.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradden_Inman

U 21 Scotland internationalist. :greengrin

[J-C]

Inman? Is he freeeeee? I'll get me coat!


:greengrin took a few looks till I got that, a bit slow tonight. lol

[nortonhibby]

Would be very interesting if true as at the moment there's more activity in my Y-fronts than there is at Easter Road.

I Have also received info that Rooney will sign a pre contract.:flag:

[J-C]

I Have also received info that Rooney will sign a pre contract.:flag:


I heard this too, Butcher wants him for a push to 4th place, that'll no happen so maybe a wee offer of £200,000 might get him in now.

[iwasthere1972]

:greengrin took a few looks till I got that, a bit slow tonight. lol


Take it you're Miss brahms and liszt. :wink: