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View Full Version : Do the old firm fans have the right mentality?



Monts
22-01-2011, 11:44 PM
Now as a rule, the answer to that question would be 'no' regardless of what you were referring to.

But when you look at the state of hibs at the moment, you know that the old firm fans would not stand for it at all.

They would make themselves heard in every media situation. They would shout and kick and scream, throwing a tantrum about it until the board took notice and made the necessary changes. And the board would make them.

But it just seems like we have sort of accepted it. This is not a 'im a better fan than you' thread. I have already started a thread about my slipping interest in the team. But many of us seem to have the attitude of 'well i was expecting that defeat anyway'.

The whole thing is depressing, but could we be making more of a difference in changing hibs fortunes?

fatbloke
22-01-2011, 11:48 PM
Now as a rule, the answer to that question would be 'no' regardless of what you were referring to.

But when you look at the state of hibs at the moment, you know that the old firm fans would not stand for it at all.

They would make themselves heard in every media situation. They would shout and kick and scream, throwing a tantrum about it until the board took notice and made the necessary changes. And the board would make them.

But it just seems like we have sort of accepted it. This is not a 'im a better fan than you' thread. I have already started a thread about my slipping interest in the team. But many of us seem to have the attitude of 'well i was expecting that defeat anyway'.

The whole thing is depressing, but could we be making more of a difference in changing hibs fortunes?

From top to bottom we are too nice as a rule. We slated the yams for bending over and accepting a shafting. I we are not being shafted royally it sure as fcku feels like it.

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 12:05 AM
Now as a rule, the answer to that question would be 'no' regardless of what you were referring to.

But when you look at the state of hibs at the moment, you know that the old firm fans would not stand for it at all.

They would make themselves heard in every media situation. They would shout and kick and scream, throwing a tantrum about it until the board took notice and made the necessary changes. And the board would make them.

But it just seems like we have sort of accepted it. This is not a 'im a better fan than you' thread. I have already started a thread about my slipping interest in the team. But many of us seem to have the attitude of 'well i was expecting that defeat anyway'.

The whole thing is depressing, but could we be making more of a difference in changing hibs fortunes?

I think many on here and at games have written / shouted how annoyed they are at the situation.

But you do get a sense of we have accepted strangely.

The problem is how do we act ?

Going to the games and supporting the team ? - fans are still turning up like the 12th Man group and others- I have been to all games at ER recently. It's so tough when the value for money isn't there and the players are giving you NOTHING to cheer about.

Not go to games ? - fair enough some are annoyed and maybe the angry ones are better at home rather than venting their anger - but surely more inside ER means more noise ?

Protest ? At the board ? At the manager ? At the players ? Everyone in the club is so split on opinion who is to blame. I personally think all 3 have a part and directing one finger is impossible.

Going to STF's house in Edinburgh ? I think it's a waste of time - there is no one as far as I am aware willing to buy Hibs right now. I am not a board lover but although they have a big responsibility with the hiring of managers and releasing funds etc STF and RP have put us in a pretty stable condition with the stadium and training complex - but what is on the pitch is what people want to see improve.

Banners ? I think this would be a start at games with simple messages to the players - not tea towels - just simple messages about trying and effort to play for the club for the players.

I really don't know the ideal scenario - this all feels very Yam like and we may even get out this situation soon - but I really think we are in a bad way and don't want to take that risk before it's too late........discuss..

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 12:06 AM
Sadly, I agree with you on this one.

We are being completely screwed over as fans and instead of making ourselves heard, we are moaning on a message board where nobody will hear us.

There needs to be a line that when crossed, the fans have to step in and take some form of action.

Well.... that line was crossed a long time ago.... and we are getting further and further away from it.

Bad Martini
23-01-2011, 12:08 AM
I think many on here and at games have written / shouted how annoyed they are at the situation.

But you do get a sense of we have accepted strangely.

The problem is how do we act ?

Going to the games and supporting the team ? - fans are still turning up like the 12th Man group and others- I have been to all games at ER recently. It's so tough when the value for money isn't there and the players are giving you NOTHING to cheer about.

Not go to games ? - fair enough some are annoyed and maybe the angry ones are better at home rather than venting their anger - but surely more inside ER means more noise ?

Protest ? At the board ? At the manager ? At the players ? Everyone in the club is so split on opinion who is to blame. I personally think all 3 have a part.

Going to STF's house in Edinburgh ? I think it's a waste of time - there is no one as far as I am aware willing to buy Hibs right now.

Banners ? I think this would be a start at games with simple messages to the players - not tea towels - just simple messages about trying and effort to play for the club for the players.

I really don't know the ideal scenario - this all feels very yam like and we may (hopefully get out this situation soon) but I really think we are in a bad way and don't want to take that risk before it's too late........discuss..

Ye forget aboot the time honoured tradition to solving these problems.......the construction of a well written, yamishly long/rambling "open letter" :aok:

ButteryHamAndCheeseRolls is gid at this joab. He'll dae it :thumbsup:

ballengeich
23-01-2011, 12:10 AM
No they haven't. None of them would still be turning up if their team had our recent record.

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 12:13 AM
Old firm or not - something has to be done.

I think people are waiting till the end of the transfer window to see what CC brings in.

You have to remember even if players are brought in on the last day - by the time they are settled / ready to play it could be mid Feb.

There have been plenty of noises in the paper from players like Murray says it's the players fault - do we just leave it to them ? I know I don't trust all of them to save us..many of them won't be with Hibs next season!

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 12:15 AM
No they haven't. None of them would still be turning up if their team had our recent record.

Then as much as it pains me to say it....

Perhaps we should be taking the same course of action.

No more income for the board = Panic stations.

Then they would have to do something about it whether they liked it or not. :agree:

Monts
23-01-2011, 12:15 AM
No they haven't. None of them would still be turning up if their team had our recent record.

But thats the point. It wouldnt get to this stage with them.

They make themselves heard and things are changed.

fatbloke
23-01-2011, 12:26 AM
Then as much as it pains me to say it....

Perhaps we should be taking the same course of action.

No more income for the board = Panic stations.

Then they would have to do something about it whether they liked it or not. :agree:

How many of the board are Hibbies or are they simply paid sorry bl00dy well paid employees. How many would give a ?

CmoantheHibs
23-01-2011, 12:32 AM
To be honest I dont think you can relate our situation to any of theirs.For their support, success or failure is against each other.They play on a similar playing field where fortunes only sway between the 2 of them.If they arent winning they complain about manager/board etc.
Whereas below them there were probably about 6 or 7 teams who think they have a chsnce for 3rd/4th spot or top 6 finish we.If you finish at the bottom of that pile your nerves are tested against teams used to a battle for survival.We expect to be in a loftier position(though its a position we have been in many times previous)but we have no right to be in the top fl;ight.Lets hope our new additions added to our present players are up for the battle.
Perhaps you can compare relagation for them to when they have been split

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 12:33 AM
How many of the board are Hibbies or are they simply paid sorry bl00dy well paid employees. How many would give a ?

They'll not be getting paid a jot if there isn't a jot to pay them with.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 12:38 AM
No more income for the board = Panic stations.

Then they would have to do something about it whether they liked it or not. :agree:

What more can they do? They released a statement yesterday saying we've spent millions - it's not their fault that successive managers and scouting systems have been unable to get the right players in. Is it?

snooky
23-01-2011, 12:40 AM
They'll not be getting paid a jot if there isn't a jot to pay them with.

Ah-hah, but what aboot their jotters?
:wink:

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 12:46 AM
What more can they do? They released a statement yesterday saying we've spent millions - it's not their fault that successive managers and scouting systems have been unable to get the right players in. Is it?

The board IMO should be the main people held responsible due to them being at the very top.

The decisions they make ultimately effect the decisions of other people at the club.

If they bring in a manager that isn't good enough, then those managers are going to bring in players that aren't good enough, then they players arent going to perform to the standards that are required for this league.

Everything traces back to the board. It doesn't matter who the players are or who the manager is. It all traces back to the decisions made by the board.

I'm not denying that the board have spent millions. But what have they spent millions on?

They've build a new stand thats going to be empty next season and they've built a state of the art training facility, which so far hasn't had any positive impact on the team.

The board surely have to be held accountable for these decisions?

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 12:50 AM
The board IMO should be the main people held responsible due to them being at the very top.

The decisions they make ultimately effect the decisions of other people at the club.

If they bring in a manager that isn't good enough, then those managers are going to bring in players that aren't good enough, then they players arent going to perform to the standards that are required for this league.

Everything traces back to the board. It doesn't matter who the players are or who the manager is. It all traces back to the decisions made by the board.

Very simplistic. The board appointed JC, Mixu and Yogi who were all fans favourites and the fans choice at the time - they backed all of them (well certainly the last 2) and it's failed.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm not denying that the board have spent millions. But what have they spent millions on?

They've build a new stand thats going to be empty next season and they've built a state of the art training facility, which so far hasn't had any positive impact on the team.

The board surely have to be held accountable for these decisions?

They've spent millions on the squad.

Do you want the training centre shut and sold? Get back to the Jack Kane Centre? Is that progression?

The thinking that you need to spend loads of money to fix this is nonsense, it's a solution for folk that can't be bothered to think.

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 12:57 AM
Very simplistic. The board appointed JC, Mixu and Yogi who were all fans favourites and the fans choice at the time - they backed all of them (well certainly the last 2) and it's failed.

Its the boards job to appoint the best manager available (within a suitable price range) that they can.

It's clear that just appointing ex Hibs players isn't the answer.

It seems to me that the board are just taking the simple options without thinking things through properly.

Fans opinions should always be important to the board. But we shouldn't be the ones thinking for them.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 12:58 AM
Fans opinions should always be important to the board. But we shouldn't be the ones thinking for them.

Noone said we were doing the thinking for them. But we did agree with them.

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 01:08 AM
They've spent millions on the squad.

Which brings me back to my point. What have they spent millions on exactly?

We have teams in the league tearing us for erse paper and they don't spend millions on their squads.



Do you want the training centre shut and sold? Get back to the Jack Kane Centre? Is that progression?

Don't be ridiculous. You know thats not what i'm suggesting.

But you have to wonder exactly what goes on in that new training centre, because its clear that our players simply arent fit enough to win a game of football.


The thinking that you need to spend loads of money to fix this is nonsense, it's a solution for folk that can't be bothered to think.

When did I once suggest that we should spend loads of money? You're putting words into my mouth.

If the board had held off a little longer with the rebuilding of the new stand and a state of the art training centre and worked on getting a decent team on the park first, then in would have made more sense.

We should be building around a good team, not the other way around.

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 01:09 AM
Noone said we were doing the thinking for them. But we did agree with them.

Yes. Because they were ex Hibbys.

We wanted them to do well, so thats why we were so excitted when they were appointed. Even if they werent proven at this level.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 01:13 AM
Which brings me back to my point. What have they spent millions on exactly?



The squad.

What is your point? That we should've binned the training centre and spent it on players?

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 01:13 AM
Yes. Because they were ex Hibbys.

We wanted them to do well, so thats why we were so excitted when they were appointed. Even if they werent proven at this level.

Yogi was. And now we're on Calderwoods back - a man that is experienced and isn't an ex-Hibby.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 01:20 AM
Exactly.

Fans are going to continue to get on Calderwoods back. The board are going to sack Calderwood and bring in somebody else... and the crazy merry go round will continue.

I've been saying it for ages. Managers are clearly not the main issue at the club.

If we bring somebody else in, it will just be like the last 3 times.

I agree - it's the players mentality that's the problem.

How do you change the fans mentality so they don't call for the managers head after a couple of months?

silverhibee
23-01-2011, 01:22 AM
Protest after the game on Wednesday, directed at the players, manager and board, and not forgetting Tam McCourt too. If a 1000 fans were to demonstrate after the game it would get the point over to them that wee are not happy with what is happening to our great club, if wee do nothing now it will be pointless waiting till wee get relagated, it will be to late by then, action now.

Hibercelona
23-01-2011, 01:30 AM
I agree - it's the players mentality that's the problem.

I don't believe the mentality of the players to be the problem. I simply think they aren't good enough. They don't look fit, they don't look interested. Theres no desire what so ever from them.


How do you change the fans mentality so they don't call for the managers head after a couple of months?

Ask the board that question. Because thats their job.

Sammy7nil
23-01-2011, 01:33 AM
No they haven't. None of them would still be turning up if their team had our recent record.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::top marks:top marks:top marks

ekhibee
23-01-2011, 01:58 AM
They've spent millions on the squad.

Do you want the training centre shut and sold? Get back to the Jack Kane Centre? Is that progression?

The thinking that you need to spend loads of money to fix this is nonsense, it's a solution for folk that can't be bothered to think.
They've spent approx 3 million in 4 years, approx £750k a season. Let's not make the amount sound better than it is. And looking at the bigger picture, if we stick to roughly that amount, and split it between the times we can actually buy players, namely the January transfer window and the close season, if we actually do buy anybody in the January transfer window it will reduce the amount we can spend in the summer, unless we actually get money for the plentiful supply of players that have performed abismally for us this season and for some time before that too. The training centre looks good, but at the moment that's all- it looks good. Until we have 1st team players that seem to benefit from it, we'll never know its true worth, apart from the benefits that the under-19's from a couple of seasons back made the most of, and quite rightly too. Somewhat ironically,John Collins, who left not long after it opened, would, in my opinion, have made the most out of these facilities, I don't know how much the managers since him have placed emphasis on fitness. I can't see, right now, how the club is going to progress unless more money IS spent on the team than is currently being spent just now.

PISTOL1875
23-01-2011, 02:12 AM
Now as a rule, the answer to that question would be 'no' regardless of what you were referring to.

But when you look at the state of hibs at the moment, you know that the old firm fans would not stand for it at all.

They would make themselves heard in every media situation. They would shout and kick and scream, throwing a tantrum about it until the board took notice and made the necessary changes. And the board would make them.

But it just seems like we have sort of accepted it. This is not a 'im a better fan than you' thread. I have already started a thread about my slipping interest in the team. But many of us seem to have the attitude of 'well i was expecting that defeat anyway'.

The whole thing is depressing, but could we be making more of a difference in changing hibs fortunes?

Of course they do.. First of all , they support there team in numbers at away matches and whatever opposition keeper is front of them they get on there back from dot one.. Something our fans NEVER do..

Secondly , if they lose a goal they tend to find there voice and get behind there team right away...

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 01:02 PM
So I was hoping to log on today and see some sort of action plan.

It seems we continue to argue amongst ourselves who is to blame and like I have said it's impossible to blame one sole person.

There is many issues why we are where we are - so what do we do ?

Solutions....not problems please... :wink:

Monts
23-01-2011, 05:09 PM
So I was hoping to log on today and see some sort of action plan.

It seems we continue to argue amongst ourselves who is to blame and like I have said it's impossible to blame one sole person.

There is many issues why we are where we are - so what do we do ?

Solutions....not problems please... :wink:

Feel free to get the ball rolling...

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 05:14 PM
Feel free to get the ball rolling...

Well on the playing side if I was CC I would do this to start - at least maybe get some excitement back on the pitch and fans back on side

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?202662-It-sounds-so-simple-but-goals-are-going-to-keep-us-in-the-SPL

Off the pitch - we are so limited.

We have 2 games left before the transfer window closes.

Both I expect nothing from.

If we don't bring in at least 2 more players then there will be even more angry people at games on here venting their anger.

Monts
23-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Well on the playing side if I was CC I would do this to start - at least maybe get some excitement back on the pitch and fans back on side

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?202662-It-sounds-so-simple-but-goals-are-going-to-keep-us-in-the-SPL

Off the pitch - we are so limited.

We have 2 games left before the transfer window closes.

Both I expect nothing from.

If we don't bring in at least 2 more players then there will be even more angry people at games on here venting their anger.

Fair play.

We need new faces. We need a leader. A big player who will lead by example, give everything for the cause, and inspire others.

But where could such a player come from?

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Fair play.

We need new faces. We need a leader. A big player who will lead by example, give everything for the cause, and inspire others.

But where could such a player come from?

:agree:

We hope our non existent scouting network are earning their wage.

Players in such a mode are tough to find - I would look lower leagues SPL - there have to be some players who would run through walls down there who would jump to play in the SPL.

I don't want panic buys - players who are committed for a few years ideally.

The_Todd
23-01-2011, 06:09 PM
I don't think it's a fair comparison with Hibs fans. The Old Firm are used to winning trophies nearly every single season which is why they have this mindset.

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 06:14 PM
Winners mentality versus losers mentality :confused:

Monts
23-01-2011, 06:14 PM
I don't think it's a fair comparison with Hibs fans. The Old Firm are used to winning trophies nearly every single season which is why they have this mindset.

But the mindset means they continue to win trophies. If we demanded success in the way they dom fair enough we wouldnt be winning the league within weeks, but we definitely wouldnt be relegation candidates.

Danderhall Hibs
23-01-2011, 06:57 PM
I don't believe the mentality of the players to be the problem. I simply think they aren't good enough. They don't look fit, they don't look interested. Theres no desire what so ever from them.



Ask the board that question. Because thats their job.


Last year at this time they were sitting in the same position Hearts are now. Kind of suggests that when they can be bothered they're better than 11th place!

It's the boards job to change the fans mentality?


They've spent approx 3 million in 4 years, approx £750k a season. Let's not make the amount sound better than it is.

I'm not making it sound better. £3m is millions! Let's not make it sound like being tight with money is our problem.

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 07:05 PM
If their team is doing bad they make noises about it.

Regarding the mentality how to behave off the pitch and everything else they stand for no.

Hate the OF and everything they stand for :agree:

Monts
23-01-2011, 09:00 PM
Winners mentality versus losers mentality :confused:

Thats pretty much bang on as far as im concerned.

We have developed an acceptance of loss. We see it as inevitable.

GreenCastle
23-01-2011, 09:04 PM
Thats pretty much bang on as far as im concerned.

We have developed an acceptance of loss. We see it as inevitable.

The first goal in games is massive right now :agree:

If you give it away like yesterday it doesn't help.

Confidence is low - losing has happened more often than not.

It needs to change soon :agree: