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View Full Version : McNamara in the Telegraph regarding the board..



GreenCastle
21-01-2011, 02:50 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8269820/Rod-Petrie-and-the-Hibs-board-to-blame-not-Colin-Calderwood-says-Easter-Road-legend-Jackie-McNamara.html

Peevemor
21-01-2011, 03:38 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8269820/Rod-Petrie-and-the-Hibs-board-to-blame-not-Colin-Calderwood-says-Easter-Road-legend-Jackie-McNamara.html

Jackie Mac was a childhood hero of mine and I can't remember ever disagreeing with stuff he's said during interviews, but he's wide of the mark here.

GordonHFC
21-01-2011, 03:47 PM
I agree with him 100%

superfurryhibby
21-01-2011, 03:53 PM
Well said Jackie Mac!

Phil D. Rolls
21-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Jackie is one of my all time Hibs heros, but I don't know what qualifies him to comment on the current state of affairs at Hibs. Furthermore, does Jackie want the club to return to the state of affairs that he and his mucker Duff Jimmy left us in?

If there were some figures and other evidence to back up his assertion I wouldn't be so hard. As it is, I get the feeling we've heard this sort of thing before.


“John Hughes should still be the manager, in my view. Yogi took the team into Europe for the first time in five years and his team played the right way but they had a wee dip earlier in the season and he was sacked as well.”

I wish Yogi and his cohorts would just disappear with dignity. It's over, get over it.

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 04:04 PM
Jackie is one of my all time Hibs heros, but I don't know what qualifies him to comment on the current state of affairs at Hibs. Furthermore, does Jackie want the club to return to the state of affairs that he and his mucker Duff Jimmy left us in?

If there were some figures and other evidence to back up his assertion I wouldn't be so hard. As it is, I get the feeling we've heard this sort of thing before.



I wish Yogi and his cohorts would just disappear with dignity. It's over, get over it.

Exactly.

Peevemor
21-01-2011, 04:12 PM
I agree with him 100%


Well said Jackie Mac!


They’re culpable for the position the club finds itself in. John Collins won the League Cup with a team that played fantastic football but he wasn’t supported by the board.
Yes he was. JC signed Curier, Clayton Donaldson, Gatheussi, Alan O'Brien, Makalambi, Joneleit and probably others that I've tried to forget. There's a fair bit of dosh in their in transfer and signing on fees. Is it any wonder that RP might have had second thoughts about giving him more money to waste?


John Hughes should still be the manager, in my view. Yogi took the team into Europe for the first time in five years and his team played the right way but they had a wee dip earlier in the season and he was sacked as well.And what about the second half of last season? "a wee dip" doesn't last 9 months IMHO.


When things went wrong the bankers sacked their staff but they kept their jobs and their big bonuses and that’s what’s been happening at Hibs, with the managers paying the price for the directors’ failingsNo, the managers have paid the price for the managers' failings. Hibs spend more money on players than nearly everyone else in Scotland, to say the board are wholly responsible for the failings is just daft.

Jim44
21-01-2011, 04:16 PM
I am definitely in McNamara's 'let's spend a bit more on players' camp but how does this stand up when the Chief Executive, in another thread, tells us that we are the biggest spending (on players) club after the Old Firm in the last four years? Is it that our managers and their scouts don't know decent players when they see them?

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 04:22 PM
I am definitely in McNamara's 'let's spend a bit more on players' camp but how does this stand up when the Chief Executive, in another thread, tells us that we are the biggest spending (on players) club after the Old Firm in the last four years? Is it that our managers and their scouts don't know decent players when they see them?

Apparently its still the boards fault cos they employed them. If fact everything's the boards fault.

Jackie Mac was part of the Duffy team that got emptied for utter incompetence and threatening the very existence of this Football Club. This article reeks of bitterness and he has probably waited 10 years to get it in print. People who have, in the past, proved to be incompetent beyond belief should not lecture on how to fix something that they helped break.

Peevemor
21-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Apparently its still the boards fault cos they employed them. If fact everything's the boards fault.

Jackie Mac was part of the Duffy team that got emptied for utter incompetence and threatening the very existence of this Football Club. This article reeks of bitterness and he has probably waited 10 years to get it in print. People who have, in the past, proved to be incompetent beyond belief should not lecture on how to fix something that they helped break.

I agree with that. However, I also understand why the board made the appointments they did.

Hibee Daz
21-01-2011, 04:26 PM
Exactly.

Who would have thought auld tacheman liked to put it about a bit when he was younger, until he realised he could save money getting a vasectomy. Anyhoo gonnae change the record already? Your dad stopped your allowance a long time ago so there's no need to keep playing the same tune!:wink:

Phil D. Rolls
21-01-2011, 04:27 PM
I am definitely in McNamara's 'let's spend a bit more on players' camp but how does this stand up when the Chief Executive, in another thread, tells us that we are the biggest spending (on players) club after the Old Firm in the last four years? Is it that our managers and their scouts don't know decent players when they see them?

I wonder who is better placed to comment on what's going on at the club.

a) A much loved former player, and assistant manager who has been a big fan for the last ten years, but has had nothing to do with running it.

b) An employee of the company who is answerable to shareholders and who could find himself unemployable if he is shown to have lied about figures.

Answers on the back of a 1979 Golden Goal ticket please.

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Who would have thought auld tacheman liked to put it about a bit when he was younger, until he realised he could save money getting a vasectomy. Anyhoo gonnae change the record already? Your dad stopped your allowance a long time ago so there's no need to keep playing the same tune!:wink:

Not a chance :wink:

smurf
21-01-2011, 05:12 PM
I agree with a lot of what Jackie Mac says. Apart from Hughes who HAD to go.

Peevemor
21-01-2011, 05:15 PM
I agree with a lot of what Jackie Mac says. Apart from Hughes who HAD to go.

So you agree with the anti-board bit then?

Quelle surprise!

smurf
21-01-2011, 05:32 PM
So you agree with the anti-board bit then?

Quelle surprise!

I think the board are culpable of many mistakes. Many expensive mistakes. They have also got other things right.

If that makes me "Anti board" in your opinion then fine. But I don't see myself that way.

Let's put it another way if not for the questioning of this so called "Anti board" brigade would RP have issued his statement? Would SL have given this 'exclusive' EEN interview?

At the start of this window I honestly don't think they were fully aware of how bad we are on the park.

A "Redoubling of efforts" should have been in December and not after a yet again early KO of the Scottish from lower league opposition..

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 05:35 PM
I think the board are culpable of many mistakes. Many expensive mistakes. They have also got other things right.

If that makes me "Anti board" in your opinion then fine. But I don't see myself that way.

Let's put it another way if not for the questioning of this so called "Anti board" brigade would RP have issued his statement? Would SL have given this 'exclusive' EEN interview?

At the start of this window I honestly don't think they were fully aware of how bad we are on the park.

A "Redoubling of efforts" should have been in December and not after a yet again early KO of the Scottish from lower league opposition..

Steady. You'll be saying we wouldnt have signed anybody next.

Peevemor
21-01-2011, 05:39 PM
I think the board are culpable of many mistakes. Many expensive mistakes. They have also got other things right.

If that makes me "Anti board" in your opinion then fine. But I don't see myself that way.

Let's put it another way if not for the questioning of this so called "Anti board" brigade would RP have issued his statement? Would SL have given this 'exclusive' EEN interview?

At the start of this window I honestly don't think they were fully aware of how bad we are on the park.

A "Redoubling of efforts" should have been in December and not after a yet again early KO of the Scottish from lower league opposition..

But there's nothing in either interview that indicates a change in the board's policy, ie. there's nothing we didn't already know.

I just wish people would accept published facts (annual accounts, direct quotes, etc.) instead of regurgitating the same old supposition, rumours and false accusations.

Part/Time Supporter
21-01-2011, 07:55 PM
I think some folk are misunderstanding what is meant when it is said that the board don't give enough "backing". To me, backing isn't just a question of spending the maximum amount available at any time or signing however many players. A major element of backing is simply retaining faith in a manager and sticking with him even when a large percentage of the fans want shot of him. In that sense of "backing", I think the Hibs board have been half-hearted in their support of each of the last three managers.

They didn't allow Collins the extra few hundred quid a week to sign Steven Hammell. Bobby Zarabi was signed instead, and he ended up being punted within six months. Yes, Collins walked. But would he have walked if he hadn't frequently had to fight battles within the club to make relatively minor and sensible contract decisions?

They then allowed Mixu to leave by "mutual consent" when it was apparent that season ticket sales for 2009-10 were slow, despite the fact that Mixu had got some big results towards the end of the previous season. No further opportunity was given for a young manager learning his trade to grow into the job. Instead Hibs had provided the training, the learning curve, and then he goes and performs well at Kilmarnock.

Then Hughes, again I think they were guilty of a half-hearted decision. There was plenty of evidence to go with removing Hughes last summer (6-6, 1-5 at Perth, 1-4 at Hamilton, the two derbies). This would have at least had the merit of offering prospective managers with a relatively clean slate, a full opportunity to recruit / get rid of players and a place in Europe. Equally, they could have decided to tough it out with Hughes. Mutually consenting him when they did satisfied nobody - the people who didn't rate Hughes think he should have gone earlier, the people who do seem to think he should still be there.

Hibs are frankly a case study for what the League Managers' Association moan about whenever a manager in England is punted, ie "changing the manager disnae work".

....

If you read McNamara's quotes, he doesn't actually mention spending money on players until later in the article. It's the journalist who puts the emphasis on the financial part of "backing". Most of what he talks about is backing in the sense of moral support.


Feelings ran high....

"This isn’t a car crash that’s waiting to happen – it’s already happened. Some fans are shouting about the manager but he’s only been there for five minutes and hasn’t signed a single player yet. You can’t possibly judge him until he’s had a chance to put his own stamp on the team. Rod Petrie and the board need to back managers, not sack them. They’re culpable for the position the club finds itself in.

John Collins won the League Cup with a team that played fantastic football but he wasn’t supported by the board. Mixu did all right but a few fans didn’t take to him and the board panicked because they don’t like taking stick. You only need to look at how well Kilmarnock are doing and how well they’re playing to see what a mistake that was. John Hughes should still be the manager, in my view. Yogi took the team into Europe for the first time in five years and his team played the right way but they had a wee dip earlier in the season and he was sacked as well.

....

When things went wrong the bankers sacked their staff but they kept their jobs and their big bonuses and that’s what’s been happening at Hibs, with the managers paying the price for the directors’ failings. If Hamilton Accies win their game in hand then they’re only a point behind Hibs and them and St Mirren are used to scrapping it out at the bottom of the table. Hibs aren’t but they’re going to have to get used to it quickly because they’re in a dogfight and they’re certainly not too good to go down.

It’s all very well having money in the bank, a state-of-the-art training complex and a beautiful stadium but if there isn’t a team on the park worth watching then none of that matters. The club has great potential but it’s not being realised by the board. When the team is doing well they can pull in 16-17,000 for home games but they’re really struggling now and people will start voting with their feet. Of course, once that happens the board will probably sack Colin Calderwood but that’s the last thing that they should do. They should give him money to spend.

There are some good young players at the club but they’re getting no help at the moment and that’s not fair on them. Our experienced players are lacking in confidence so they’re not in a position to bring the young boys on.”

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 08:36 PM
I think some folk are misunderstanding what is meant when it is said that the board don't give enough "backing". To me, backing isn't just a question of spending the maximum amount available at any time or signing however many players. A major element of backing is simply retaining faith in a manager and sticking with him even when a large percentage of the fans want shot of him. In that sense of "backing", I think the Hibs board have been half-hearted in their support of each of the last three managers.

They didn't allow Collins the extra few hundred quid a week to sign Steven Hammell. Bobby Zarabi was signed instead, and he ended up being punted within six months. Yes, Collins walked. But would he have walked if he hadn't frequently had to fight battles within the club to make relatively minor and sensible contract decisions?


Sorry PTS but I only read as far as Collins. I liked his ideas but the reality is that his marquee signings were O'Brien and Makalambay. He also signed Sowumni, Joneleit, Gatheusi, Morais, Donaldson,Kerr, Gatheusi and MAC.

Would you have given him any more money to spend? Seriously now?

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 08:58 PM
Sorry PTS but I only read as far as Collins. I liked his ideas but the reality is that his marquee signings were O'Brien and Makalambay. He also signed Sowumni, Joneleit, Gatheusi, Morais, Donaldson,Kerr, Gatheusi and MAC.

Would you have given him any more money to spend? Seriously now?

FS - when did we re-sign Gatheusi?

Jackie's article is fair IMO (but then i'm biased, because he is one of my favourite all-time Hibs players. Wish we had some at ER on and off the park with an ounce of his passion for the club now).

Why did you only "read as far as Collins"?

It's high time the Board were publicly called to account - A whole year we've been garbage - sold our remaining best players AGAIN - and replaced them with the likes of Trakys.

Now we're supposed to feel grateful for Petrie making a statement on the website, and Lindsay giving an "exclusive" interview that ran to about three quotes to the local rag...

What's wrong with Petrie or Lindsay, or both of them turning up at the Thursday press conference and addressing and answering some pertinent questions from the press?

I wonder if you'll still be defending them to the hilt this time next year when we're playing Morton in a mid-table First Division clash in front of 5-6000 fans?

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 09:04 PM
FS - when did we re-sign Gatheusi?

Jackie's article is fair IMO (but then i'm biased, because he is one of my favourite all-time Hibs players. Wish we had some at ER on and off the park with an ounce of his passion for the club now).

Why did you only "read as far as Collins"?

It's high time the Board were publicly called to account - A whole year we've been garbage - sold our remaining best players AGAIN - and replaced them with the likes of Trakys.

Now we're supposed to feel grateful for Petrie making a statement on the website, and Lindsay giving an "exclusive" interview that ran to about three quotes to the local rag...

What's wrong with Petrie or Lindsay, or both of them turning up at the Thursday press conference and addressing and answering some pertinent questions from the press?

I wonder if you'll still be defending them to the hilt this time next year when we're playing Morton in a mid-table First Division clash in front of 5-6000 fans?

A minor slip at the beginning but the point is nevertheless valid. I got as far as Collins as I realised PTS was, IMHO, talking nonsense for the reasons I gave. Why would they have given him more money to spend when he had already had such a poor record of identifying players.

Will you be apologising if we're not?

greenlex
21-01-2011, 09:04 PM
FS - when did we re-sign Gatheusi?

Jackie's article is fair IMO (but then i'm biased, because he is one of my favourite all-time Hibs players. Wish we had some at ER on and off the park with an ounce of his passion for the club now).

Why did you only "read as far as Collins"?

It's high time the Board were publicly called to account - A whole year we've been garbage - sold our remaining best players AGAIN - and replaced them with the likes of Trakys.

Now we're supposed to feel grateful for Petrie making a statement on the website, and Lindsay giving an "exclusive" interview that ran to about three quotes to the local rag...

What's wrong with Petrie or Lindsay, or both of them turning up at the Thursday press conference and addressing and answering some pertinent questions from the press?

I wonder if you'll still be defending them to the hilt this time next year when we're playing Morton in a mid-table First Division clash in front of 5-6000 fans?

What difference is that going to make?
Why dont you e-mail the club with specific questions? You know the ones you feel should be asked. Post them here and the answers you get.
Better still get to the AGM. You will be able to watch them squirm.

sahib
21-01-2011, 09:08 PM
No, the managers have paid the price for the managers' failings. Hibs spend more money on players than nearly everyone else in Scotland, to say the board are wholly responsible for the failings is just daft.

To some extent but then again we took in more money in player sales than anyone in Scotland (non-OF). The mistake may have been re- investing too small a percentage.

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 09:09 PM
To some extent but then again we took in more money in player sales than anyone in Scotland (non-OF). The mistake may have been re- investing too small a percentage.

Hearts took in more.

But your right. We should have spent what we had a bit better.

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 09:17 PM
What difference is that going to make?
Why dont you e-mail the club with specific questions? You know the ones you feel should be asked. Post them here and the answers you get.
Better still get to the AGM. You will be able to watch them squirm.#

The "difference" it would make is it then wouldn't be viewed by some as manufactured spin and would allow the head(s) of the Hibs "family" to be challenged on some of the points they're wanting to make. I've never ONCE heard Petrie on the TV or radio setting out his vision for the club. Never. All we get is New Labouresque spin like the statement about "missing out on the Scottish Cup final" after a first round exit to lower league oppositon, again - did I miss something there or was the Ayr game a semi-final?

And I do e-mail the club - but much as I don't think a great deal to the job they're doing, I wouldn't post the answers on here, as that's a breach of trust in my book.

I've also been to an AGM. It's not really in Petrie's nature to "squirm", quite the opposite in fact. I've seen him get quite animated though, usually when the talk turns to the books and the infastructure.

greenlex
21-01-2011, 09:32 PM
#

The "difference" it would make is it then wouldn't be viewed by some as manufactured spin and would allow the head(s) of the Hibs "family" to be challenged on some of the points they're wanting to make. I've never ONCE heard Petrie on the TV or radio setting out his vision for the club. Never. All we get is New Labouresque spin like the statement about "missing out on the Scottish Cup final" after a first round exit to lower league oppositon, again - did I miss something there or was the Ayr game a semi-final?

And I do e-mail the club - but much as I don't think a great deal to the job they're doing, I wouldn't post the answers on here, as that's a breach of trust in my book.

I've also been to an AGM. It's not really in Petrie's nature to "squirm", quite the opposite in fact. I've seen him get quite animated though, usually when the talk turns to the books and the infastructure.


Has any other Chairman or CEO of any football club done what you are suggesting or is just Petrie or Lyndsay that should trailbliaze this type of communication.
I think the info coming from the club is adequate. If there is something to say they say it.
IMO The fact that today they have been bullied by some of the support to announce a signing before a medical has been carried out speaks volumes

Labouresque spin? The missing the cup final "spin" as you put it was his way of saying we have a few cup final type games (must win) coming up in the league and lets back the team so yes you did miss something but I am not surprise that someone who thinks its all manufactured didnt actually take it in.

nortonhibby
21-01-2011, 09:32 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8269820/Rod-Petrie-and-the-Hibs-board-to-blame-not-Colin-Calderwood-says-Easter-Road-legend-Jackie-McNamara.html

i Know jackie well i have played golf with him and Ralph also a gid hibee RP is the root of the problem the man is pathetic he will take the cheap option every time:confused:

Part/Time Supporter
21-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Sorry PTS but I only read as far as Collins. I liked his ideas but the reality is that his marquee signings were O'Brien and Makalambay. He also signed Sowumni, Joneleit, Gatheusi, Morais, Donaldson,Kerr, Gatheusi and MAC.

Would you have given him any more money to spend? Seriously now?

That's precisely my point. They don't back the manager.

Yes, Collins' signings were poor on the whole. But the team were tremendously fit - much more so than they are now, that's for sure. He was quite good tactically I thought. Winning the cup (notwithstanding the "Mowbray's team argument) should have bought him a lot more respect than it did. It wasn't as if the team were in any relegation danger or such when the reason for his departure formed.

All managers have their strengths and their weaknesses, particularly young managers who are learning the ropes. It's no use sticking a young manager in and then expecting him to manage like a crafty veteran from day one. Who knows, maybe Collins' signings would have been better in January or summer 2008? We'll never know though, because the board didn't continue to back him.

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 09:41 PM
But they did back him by making the signings he did. Can you argue that his signings were successful? I listed nine players (not counting two Thierry's :greengrin) and you couldnt say that any of them were a success story. What do you do then, do you keep giving him money and hope, by a process of elimination that he gets one right?

I thought JC had great ideas and think his culture and attitude was way ahead of the Scottish game and should have, and still should even now, be implemented. But he signed some duds.


That's precisely my point. They don't back the manager.

Yes, Collins' signings were poor on the whole. But the team were tremendously fit - much more so than they are now, that's for sure. He was quite good tactically I thought. Winning the cup (notwithstanding the "Mowbray's team argument) should have bought him a lot more respect than it did. It wasn't as if the team were in any relegation danger or such when the reason for his departure formed.

All managers have their strengths and their weaknesses, particularly young managers who are learning the ropes. It's no use sticking a young manager in and then expecting him to manage like a crafty veteran from day one. Who knows, maybe Collins' signings would have been better in January or summer 2008? We'll never know though, because the board didn't continue to back him.

nortonhibby
21-01-2011, 09:44 PM
That's precisely my point. They don't back the manager.

Yes, Collins' signings were poor on the whole. But the team were tremendously fit - much more so than they are now, that's for sure. He was quite good tactically I thought. Winning the cup (notwithstanding the "Mowbray's team argument) should have bought him a lot more respect than it did. It wasn't as if the team were in any relegation danger or such when the reason for his departure formed.

All managers have their strengths and their weaknesses, particularly young managers who are learning the ropes. It's no use sticking a young manager in and then expecting him to manage like a crafty veteran from day one. Who knows, maybe Collins' signings would have been better in January or summer 2008? We'll never know though, because the board didn't continue to back him.

lets be honest is CC beter than Yogi ? no was yogi beter than Mixu ? no was Mixu beter than JC ? NO can you see where we are going ?
Can you see the direction ? the board are to blame for this mess a blind man with a stick can see where we are going, we will have the best stadium in the 1st division.

Part/Time Supporter
21-01-2011, 09:46 PM
But they did back him by making the signings he did. Can you argue that his signings were successful? I listed nine players (not counting two Thierry's :greengrin) and you couldnt say that any of them were a success story. What do you do then, do you keep giving him money and hope, by a process of elimination that he gets one right?

I thought JC had great ideas and think his culture and attitude was way ahead of the Scottish game and should have, and still should even now, be implemented. But he signed some duds.

You're missing my point. Yes they backed him to the fantastic extent of giving him one whole summer transfer window to bring in players (while also selling three of his best players) and then concluding on the basis of that mountain of evidence that he was a dud.

I'm sorry, but if that counts as "backing", then Hibs are going to change manager every year for the rest of time. Lord only knows how they are going to achieve even relative success by doing that.

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 09:51 PM
Has any other Chairman or CEO of any football club done what you are suggesting or is just Petrie or Lyndsay that should trailbliaze this type of communication.
I think the info coming from the club is adequate. If there is something to say they say it.
IMO The fact that today they have been bullied by some of the support to announce a signing before a medical has been carried out speaks volumes

Labouresque spin? The missing the cup final "spin" as you put it was his way of saying we have a few cup final type games (must win) coming up in the league and lets back the team so yes you did miss something but I am not surprise that someone who thinks its all manufactured didnt actually take it in.

"We've missed out on a Scottish Cup Final" - a direct quote from the Easter Road's "dinnae look at us it's not our fault" line of thinking.

If that kind of stuff came out of Tynecastle after a meek 1st round exit we'd all be ending ourself on here.

An embarrasing statement for any Board to come out with. And as for the Hibs support "bullying" this Board into anything, then that'll be a first.

greenlex
21-01-2011, 09:55 PM
"We've missed out on a Scottish Cup Final" - a direct quote from the Easter Road's "dinnae look at us it's not our fault" line of thinking.

If that kind of stuff came out of Tynecastle after a meek 1st round exit we'd all be ending ourself on here.

An embarrasing statement for any Board to come out with. And as for the Hibs support "bullying" this Board into anything, then that'll be a first.
Yes it is a first.
Its good to take part of a direct quote and make it look stupid to make it suit your viewpoint/agenda.

Here is the full passage. Try reading it. Absolutely nothing embarrasing about it

"Make no mistake, it will be a fight. We have missed out on the Scottish Cup Final but we now have a number of 'cup finals' in the league programme ahead. Silky football or ugly football, it is getting points that matters. It is points that will now define our Season."

The Falcon
21-01-2011, 09:59 PM
You're missing my point. Yes they backed him to the fantastic extent of giving him one whole summer transfer window to bring in players (while also selling three of his best players) and then concluding on the basis of that mountain of evidence that he was a dud.

I'm sorry, but if that counts as "backing", then Hibs are going to change manager every year for the rest of time. Lord only knows how they are going to achieve even relative success by doing that.

Did the three players beg to stay? I recollect his relationship with them had entirely broken down.

All players at Hibs who have a good to very good run of form are going to leave, thats the way things are. Same with managers.

I never said he was a dud I said he signed some duds, so where would you have drawn the line? He may have unearthed a couple of diamonds over the next couple of years but the reality is that, given his track record, that was unlikely to happen.

I like JC and am uncomfortable pointing these things out as I believe he had a lot to offer and many great qualities but identifying players wasn't one of them.

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Yes it is a first.
Its good to take part of a direct quote and make it look stupid to make it suit your viewpoint/agenda.

Read it again: "We missed out on a Scottish Cup Final" - I don't manage to make it look stupid - it does that perfecly well itself.

So once again, please explain to me how we missed out on a cup final when we've exited at the first round?:confused:

greenlex
21-01-2011, 10:08 PM
Read it again: "We missed out on a Scottish Cup Final" - I don't manage to make it look stupid - it does that perfecly well itself.

So once again, please explain to me how we missed out on a cup final when we've exited at the first round?:confused:

Look at my edited post. Why are you only quoting a bit of the sentence never mind the whole passage in an attempt to qualify your stance? There is only one thing embarrasing or stupid here.

CropleyWasGod
21-01-2011, 10:15 PM
Read it again: "We missed out on a Scottish Cup Final" - I don't manage to make it look stupid - it does that perfecly well itself.

So once again, please explain to me how we missed out on a cup final when we've exited at the first round?:confused:

My reading of the whole sentence is that they are emphasising the fact that we have our own cup finals ahead. The first part of the sentence is there to add weight to the second part.

ScottB
21-01-2011, 10:17 PM
I never get people popping up with no current connection to the club talking like they just sat in on the last Board meeting...

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Look at my edited post. Why are you only quoting a bit of the sentence never mind the whole passage in an attempt to qualify your stance? There is only one thing embarrasing or stupid here.


OOHHH!! - at least if you're going to be insulting try and make it funny. The "missing out on a Scottish Cup Final" is the first part of the sentence, but we could argue semantics all night long if you want...

Overall I found the statement embarrasing, with that part being the most cringeworthy - must have read it wrong, obviously, while you really "got it" though.

I now bow to your superior intellect.

greenlex
21-01-2011, 10:27 PM
OOHHH!! - at least if you're going to be insulting try and make it funny. The "missing out on a Scottish Cup Final" is the first part of the sentence, but we could argue semantics all night long if you want...

Overall I found the statement embarrasing, with that part being the most cringeworthy - must have read it wrong, obviously, while you really "got it" though.

I now bow to your superior intellect.

Ok I'm done. You are a lost cause on more than one front.
Cropley was God has got it. see 3 posts above.
Glad I am not the only one.

CropleyWasGod
21-01-2011, 10:28 PM
Ok I'm done. You are a lost cause on more than one front.
Cropley was God has got it. see 3 posts above.
Glad I am not the only one.

:scarf:

new malkyhib
21-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Ok I'm done. You are a lost cause on more than one front.
Cropley was God has got it. see 3 posts above.
Glad I am not the only one.

Hope you're blissfully happy together.

CropleyWasGod
21-01-2011, 10:34 PM
[/B]

Hope you're blissfully happy together.

Cheers, baby :cheers:

PaulSmith
21-01-2011, 10:38 PM
I never get people popping up with no current connection to the club talking like they just sat in on the last Board meeting...

Jackie has a connection to the club as a supporter, I'm quite sure that you haven't sat in any recent board meetings either just like I haven't but we both post on here our respective view points. Jackie was asked for his and gave it, much in the same way that the ex director, Paul Kane and Keith Wright were.

I think that only The Falcon has sat in on recent board meetings! :)

ScottB
21-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Jackie has a connection to the club as a supporter, I'm quite sure that you haven't sat in any recent board meetings either just like I haven't but we both post on here our respective view points. Jackie was asked for his and gave it, much in the same way that the ex director, Paul Kane and Keith Wright were.

I think that only The Falcon has sat in on recent board meetings! :)

There's a difference from us / others offering opinions, and peddling opinions as fact! He can't know any more than we do how much backing a manager gets, how much is spent etc. By connection I mean as in working at the club.

They only statements in the last week we can even begin to assume as fact come from Petrie and Lindsay. But of course that just opens up a whole other can of worms for some folk!

Andy74
22-01-2011, 01:38 AM
I think some folk are misunderstanding what is meant when it is said that the board don't give enough "backing". To me, backing isn't just a question of spending the maximum amount available at any time or signing however many players. A major element of backing is simply retaining faith in a manager and sticking with him even when a large percentage of the fans want shot of him. In that sense of "backing", I think the Hibs board have been half-hearted in their support of each of the last three managers.

They didn't allow Collins the extra few hundred quid a week to sign Steven Hammell. Bobby Zarabi was signed instead, and he ended up being punted within six months. Yes, Collins walked. But would he have walked if he hadn't frequently had to fight battles within the club to make relatively minor and sensible contract decisions?

They then allowed Mixu to leave by "mutual consent" when it was apparent that season ticket sales for 2009-10 were slow, despite the fact that Mixu had got some big results towards the end of the previous season. No further opportunity was given for a young manager learning his trade to grow into the job. Instead Hibs had provided the training, the learning curve, and then he goes and performs well at Kilmarnock.

Then Hughes, again I think they were guilty of a half-hearted decision. There was plenty of evidence to go with removing Hughes last summer (6-6, 1-5 at Perth, 1-4 at Hamilton, the two derbies). This would have at least had the merit of offering prospective managers with a relatively clean slate, a full opportunity to recruit / get rid of players and a place in Europe. Equally, they could have decided to tough it out with Hughes. Mutually consenting him when they did satisfied nobody - the people who didn't rate Hughes think he should have gone earlier, the people who do seem to think he should still be there.

Hibs are frankly a case study for what the League Managers' Association moan about whenever a manager in England is punted, ie "changing the manager disnae work".

....

If you read McNamara's quotes, he doesn't actually mention spending money on players until later in the article. It's the journalist who puts the emphasis on the financial part of "backing". Most of what he talks about is backing in the sense of moral support.
That hammel story is a total myth. Just a few days later he wound up at skint Motherwell and we'd signed Ian Murray as well as nish and rankin who we had to pay for.

basehibby
22-01-2011, 02:03 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian/8269820/Rod-Petrie-and-the-Hibs-board-to-blame-not-Colin-Calderwood-says-Easter-Road-legend-Jackie-McNamara.html

Excellent interview from Jackie - hits the nail on the head in so many ways.

RIP
22-01-2011, 02:38 AM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

Heckys Wheel
22-01-2011, 05:58 AM
But they did back him by making the signings he did. Can you argue that his signings were successful? I listed nine players (not counting two Thierry's :greengrin) and you couldnt say that any of them were a success story. What do you do then, do you keep giving him money and hope, by a process of elimination that he gets one right?

I thought JC had great ideas and think his culture and attitude was way ahead of the Scottish game and should have, and still should even now, be implemented. But he signed some duds.

I agree except his ideals are everybody's ideals and well known facts....

FACT: Alcohol hinders fitness and muscle growth. In fact its a poison to an athletes body.

That gives you 2 roads to take in my opinion. Both roads can be shown by top class managers.

1. Alex Ferguson - Accept that players will do as they please. Give them the facts but ultimately trust them to keep it in moderation.

2. Wenger - Develop your man management skills and knowledge so that your players respect and buy into your philosophies.

John Collins - Preach and try to drum in your philosophies using arrogance and juvenile disciplinary procedures.

He talked a great game and had ideas that looked great in a sport and exercise dissertation. Unfortunately he was missing several key attributes required to succeed as a manager. Man management skills and the ability to spot a player being 2 of them.

I don't go along with the idea that he could've succeeded. A decent assistant might've helped but he chose wrong there as well.

Part/Time Supporter
22-01-2011, 07:02 AM
That hammel story is a total myth. Just a few days later he wound up at skint Motherwell and we'd signed Ian Murray as well as nish and rankin who we had to pay for.

Erm, no it isn't.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport?articleid=3616460


Describing the inflexibility as "a tipping point, well certainly one of the key points" at his press conference on Thursday, Collins' frustration was evident. Aware there was never likely to be cash to splash when he arrived, he did expect some latitude and seemed unprepared for the unwillingness to even manoeuvre upwards by a few hundred pounds to land Steven Hammell from Southend as a replacement for Murphy. He argued that the outlay was more of a cash advance, as the left-back would not be able to leave Easter Road without the club reaping a substantial fee.

Refusing to name Hammell directly, he said: "One of the two (players we had looked at signing in January] we couldn't afford, we couldn't match his wages, he's in the English Coca Cola League One. That's the thing that makes it a tough, tough job." It is believed that the Hibs board expected the player to take a £500-a-week wage cut to move north.

There's been a lot of complaints from people arguing what the board states should be taken at face value. I would suggest that the same courtesy should be shown to former managers, and not just when it suits your argument.

The Falcon
22-01-2011, 07:34 AM
Erm, no it isn't.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport?articleid=3616460



There's been a lot of complaints from people arguing what the board states should be taken at face value. I would suggest that the same courtesy should be shown to former managers, and not just when it suits your argument.

But what I said on another thread was that, given the junk that JC had already signed, why would they anybody support his judgement with cash at that time? I feel pretty sure that had his signings been unparalleled successes then there would have been no problem bringing Hammell in.

As we all know Hammell went from strength to strength as well underlining JC's ability to find nuggets:cool2:.

The Falcon
22-01-2011, 07:45 AM
Jackie has a connection to the club as a supporter, I'm quite sure that you haven't sat in any recent board meetings either just like I haven't but we both post on here our respective view points. Jackie was asked for his and gave it, much in the same way that the ex director, Paul Kane and Keith Wright were.

I think that only The Falcon has sat in on recent board meetings! :)

Thanks for that Paul :greengrin

As another poster pointed out that people on here were shouting for the board to "make a statement" which they did, saying basically all they could really say. For which then they were basically accused of lying and then ripped to pieces for making a statement. CC, who is in the door five minutes is also repeatedly,to all intents and purposes, accused of lying. Not only that he is, apparently, a total wuss who is RP's bitch and has no opinions of his own because, again it appears, its Rod who identifies and signs players.

All of this, to most reasonable people is, at best, nonsense, and at worst mischievous and self serving.

There are folk on here, and ex-employees of the club, who for one reason or another have it in for Farmer and Petrie and our current predicament seems, to me at least, to be heaven sent for these people. They should enjoy it while they can because this situation will not last for ever.

Jack
22-01-2011, 08:35 AM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

The club has consistantly said that its upto managers to identify signing targets and that the board will the try and secure that player. No manager has ever said players have been brought in against their wishes.
.
The only board 'signings' I can think of recently were Deeks and only one Ian Murray, neither of whom any Hibs manager would have said no to.
.
So are you saying the club are lying or are you trolling?

number 27
22-01-2011, 08:50 AM
As we all know Hammell went from strength to strength as well underlining JC's ability to find nuggets:cool2:.

he has done fine :confused:
Far better than our left backs in the same period.

Arch Stanton
22-01-2011, 09:17 AM
Excellent interview from Jackie - hits the nail on the head in so many ways.

And what you really mean is that you share all his opinions regardless of how little they correspond with the facts. :agree:

Personally I've come to the view that ex-Hibs players make as poor pundits as they do managers. And of course, since it is my opinion, I guess I can now claim it to be an irrefutable fact.

Mikey
22-01-2011, 09:41 AM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice


So which players were Petrie signings?

Phil D. Rolls
22-01-2011, 10:55 AM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

When did Rod become Director of Football?

moggie
22-01-2011, 10:58 AM
So which players were Petrie signings?

Nish :rolleyes:

greenlex
22-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

So Petrie consistently identifies players he has worked with or seen before as targets?
Mowbray- several players from reserve teams down south. Sheils Murphy etc
Hughes - Cregg Stokes McBride Duffy
Calderwood - Thornhill
Have a word with yourself and think about what you are saying.
As far as I know only Rankin is a board signing and he has actualy consistently been picked by every manager to have managed him.

The Falcon
22-01-2011, 12:04 PM
he has done fine :confused:
Far better than our left backs in the same period.

Our left backs are hardly a benchmark though are they. He left Well to go on to "greater" things and is back there. Spectacular?

The Falcon
22-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Nish :rolleyes:

Not this pish again.........:rolleyes:

greenlex
22-01-2011, 12:29 PM
Nish :rolleyes:
For the umpteenth time.
The same Nish that became cup tied so Mixu could see him playing before Mixu signed him. Pay attention.

Hiber-nation
22-01-2011, 12:40 PM
If Petrie interferes so much in Hibs managers signing targets how do you explain him letting Yogi away with signing a complete goalkeeping school?

BEEJ
22-01-2011, 01:12 PM
That hammel story is a total myth. Just a few days later he wound up at skint Motherwell and we'd signed Ian Murray as well as nish and rankin who we had to pay for.
:no way: No it ain't. Unless JC was just telling porkies, of course.


Erm, no it isn't.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport?articleid=3616460

There's been a lot of complaints from people arguing what the board states should be taken at face value. I would suggest that the same courtesy should be shown to former managers, and not just when it suits your argument.
:top marks


So which players were Petrie signings?


Nish :rolleyes:


For the umpteenth time.
The same Nish that became cup tied so Mixu could see him playing before Mixu signed him. Pay attention.
This has been argued to death before. So for the umpteenth time .... :greengrin

Mixu was appointed on 10 January 2008. Rankin, a player that JC said had been suggested to him by RP on more than one occasion before, was signed on 17 January - just one week later.

In the same vein, Nish was being talked about as a signing target but Mixu reserved the right to watch him first before agreeing to his signature. The window was soon closing and time fast running out to consider alternatives. There was therefore little other option for Mixu but to accept RP's suggestion. Nish was signed right at the end of the window on 31 January.

You read Mixu's interview in the NOTW last September and you are left in no doubt that he was constrained and hemmed in by the modus operandi at Easter Road.

Ultimately Nish and Rankin came at RP's behest and the manager was left with little choice but to agree.

greenlex
22-01-2011, 01:20 PM
This has been argued to death before. So for the umpteenth time .... :greengrin

Mixu was appointed on 10 January 2008. Rankin, a player that JC said had been suggested to him by RP on more than one occasion before, was signed on 17 January - just one week later.

In the same vein, Nish was being talked about as a signing target but Mixu reserved the right to watch him first before agreeing to his signature. The window was soon closing and time fast running out to consider alternatives. There was therefore little other option for Mixu but to accept RP's suggestion. Nish was signed right at the end of the window on 31 January.

You read Mixu's interview in the NOTW last September and you are left in no doubt that he was constrained and hemmed in by the modus operandi at Easter Road.

Ultimately Nish and Rankin came at RP's behest and the manager was left with little choice but to agree.
So for the avoidance of doubt both Rankin and Niish were Mixus signings.
He signed Rankin with 2 weeks of the window left which is plenty of time to sign an alternative and had three to look Nish before signing him.

I know you are only the bearer of the news so can anyone tell me how either of these players are Petries signings?

smurf
22-01-2011, 01:26 PM
:no way: No it ain't. Unless JC was just telling porkies, of course.


:top marks






This has been argued to death before. So for the umpteenth time .... :greengrin

Mixu was appointed on 10 January 2008. Rankin, a player that JC said had been suggested to him by RP on more than one occasion before, was signed on 17 January - just one week later.

In the same vein, Nish was being talked about as a signing target but Mixu reserved the right to watch him first before agreeing to his signature. The window was soon closing and time fast running out to consider alternatives. There was therefore little other option for Mixu but to accept RP's suggestion. Nish was signed right at the end of the window on 31 January.

You read Mixu's interview in the NOTW last September and you are left in no doubt that he was constrained and hemmed in by the modus operandi at Easter Road.

Ultimately Nish and Rankin came at RP's behest and the manager was left with little choice but to agree.

Agreed. Ian Murray too IMHO.

Also, who was it who decided to give Grant Brebner a three year deal in the summer 2004?

BEEJ
22-01-2011, 01:40 PM
So for the avoidance of doubt both Rankin and Niish were Mixus signings.
He signed Rankin with 2 weeks of the window left which is plenty of time to sign an alternative and had three to look Nish before signing him.

I know you are only the bearer of the news so can anyone tell me how either of these players are Petries signings?
Oh hang on! Two weeks in the January window is 'plenty of time'!? Think you'll need to go into reverse with that one given the club's experience in this window for the last three weeks and how "it's always more difficult to make signings in the January window".

Furthermore Mixu was just literally in the door. Hadn't had a chance to assess what we had and where the gaps in the squad were. So, no! Not 'plenty of time'.

And you either believe what JC stated about Rankin being offered to him by RP on occasions prior to that window when he was still Manager or you don't. Personally, I do.

ScottB
22-01-2011, 01:42 PM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

That's the second time you've attempted this. Any proof?

I suppose Thornhill was also Petrie's choice then? And all the players Hughes signed that he worked with at Falkirk, just a coincidence in the Petrie masterplan was that?

What nonsense!

greenlex
22-01-2011, 01:52 PM
Oh hang on! Two weeks in the January window is 'plenty of time'!? Think you'll need to go into reverse with that one given the club's experience in this window for the last three weeks and how "it's always more difficult to make signings in the January window".

Furthermore Mixu was just literally in the door. Hadn't had a chance to assess what we had and where the gaps in the squad were. So, no! Not 'plenty of time'.

And you either believe what JC stated about Rankin being offered to him by RP on occasions prior to that window when he was still Manager or you don't. Personally, I do.
I dont doubt that Rankin was offered to Collins. He didnt sign him though did he? That blows the myth that Petrie signed him out the water does it not. Its not inconceivable that one manager fancies a player and another doesnt. If Mixu didnt he could have said no as Collins had couldnt he? The same could have been said of Nish. the Fact he stalled till he had seen him bears this out.
Plenty of time or not is neither here nor there Mixu didnt have to sign them but he did. So by very definition they are HIS signings. Lets put this Petries signings pish to bed once and for all.

ScottB
22-01-2011, 02:00 PM
I dont doubt that Rankin was offered to Collins. He didnt sign him though did he? That blows the myth that Petrie signed him out the water does it not. Its not inconceivable that one manager fancies a player and another doesnt. If Mixu didnt he could have said no as Collins had couldnt he? The same could have been said of Nish. the Fact he stalled till he had seen him bears this out.
Plenty of time or not is neither here nor there Mixu didnt have to sign them but he did. So by very definition they are HIS signings. Lets put this Petries signings pish to bed once and for all.

Also, I think the term 'Petrie's signing' is a bit off also. Presumably these players were identified to the Board by the clubs scouts in a spell between managers? Unless of course the man constantly accused of not having a football bone in his body is also capable of going out and scouting players?

Presumably in a spell between managers the clubs scouting network continues hunting for players and reports back to the club, with a list of potentials identified to the next guy that comes in should he want them?

BEEJ
22-01-2011, 02:20 PM
I dont doubt that Rankin was offered to Collins. He didnt sign him though did he? That blows the myth that Petrie signed him out the water does it not. Its not inconceivable that one manager fancies a player and another doesnt. If Mixu didnt he could have said no as Collins had couldnt he? The same could have been said of Nish. the Fact he stalled till he had seen him bears this out.

Plenty of time or not is neither here nor there Mixu didnt have to sign them but he did. So by very definition they are HIS signings. Lets put this Petries signings pish to bed once and for all.
Plenty of time is indeed relevant when it means you have no other options during that window to bolster what was at the time a poor squad on a bad run. So 'take it or leave it'! Stick with the squad you have until the end of the season or take the players the Chairman is recommending.

I guess its down to what information you choose to believe. I referred earlier to Mixu's interview from last September.


News of the World (19 September 2010)
Mixu's route 1 RAGE

PAATELAINEN RIPS INTO HIS CRITICS

By John McGarry, 19/09/2010

MIXU PAATELAINEN has launched a furious defence of his style of football by insisting: "I've never been a long-ball manager and I never will be."

The flying Finn was out of the game for a year until Kilmarnock came calling after leaving Hibs by mutual consent in May 2009. If the Rugby Park fans have been surprised at how easy on the eye the side have been under their new boss then Paatelainen isn't.

As a player, his aerial ability was appreciated by managers who wanted to take Route 1. Because he was good at it didn't mean he enjoyed it but the myth grew during his 18 months at Easter Road.

Paatelainen admits he didn't help by saying his side 'would be more direct' than that of John Collins but insists this was wrongly interpreted. Without naming him, he also clearly feels the purse strings of Rod Petrie, below, were too tight to allow him to bring in the kind of players he wanted.

Nothing was said at the parting of the ways but Paatelainen knows that his reputation wasn't enhanced by the perception his style of play just didn't fit in.
As his free-flowing side prepare to entertain Celtic today, the Finn finally sets the record straight on the anger and frustration he has felt. He said: "My idea has not changed about the way to play football from Hibs to here but what you can do at one club is not always the same at another.

"You don't always have the control, many things can affect you - without going into too many details. I'm pleased the supporters are seeing it here and I'm pleased the players are enjoying it. "I'm pleased we've won three matches on the bounce.

"Players will gain confidence, they enjoy playing a passing style and the players get to enjoy watching it and I enjoy it because it's the proper way to play football. "I was always amazed when some people branded me a long-ball man.

"I've never been that. Even when I was a player, and I was a target man who was decent in the air, I used to hate it. When the ball was punted in the air, even if I won it, I was out of the next phase of play so I hated it. "I think football should be played passing from man to man, keeping possession."

Mixu bitterly regrets the answer he gave to one particular question upon taking the Hibs job.

He said: "When I went to Hibs I made a drastic mistake. I said that after John Collins' style - which was fantastic in terms of passing - I wanted to be a bit more direct. Scottish people understood that meant 'Whoosh!', long ball, launch it. When I say direct I mean getting the ball on the deck and passing it forward - there's a direction.

"In my mind, there's a clear direction in football - from our goal to the opponents'.

"I was disappointed that people talked about my team being long-ball merchants because it never happened. I'm glad to get the chance to explain that too."

Paatelainen didn't launch any verbal volleys at Petrie but he still makes his feelings on his time at the club clear for the first time. He said: "A manager can only play the system your players allow you to.

"My hope at Hibs was to play the way we do here, to get the full-backs forward, to play a certain way but I wasn't able to because of the personnel.

"The way you can play at one club is never the same as another. That was the big lure of coming to Kilmarnock.

"The squad was very small in terms of numbers, so I thought 'great'. There was a transfer kitty - not big, quite small actually - but I thought I could look for players who fitted the way I wanted to play. Luckily the players have been available.

"At Hibs, the ideal player for me would have been David Murphy but the first weekend I was there he was sold to Birmingham. After there was no overlapping full-back.

"We had other positions we were short in as well. There were quality players there, still are, no question, but we had to play differently, I had to adjust my way of playing."

Some of Mixu's comments in this interview (highlighted) are very telling. However, I'm sure you'll look at them in a different light. :wink:

I'm not entirely anti-Board. They have done well in some areas and I've been known to defend their position on here on certain decisions.

But I won't suck in everything they tell me without question - and there are some areas where (inevitably) they will not give us the complete picture.

ScottB
22-01-2011, 02:30 PM
Plenty of time is indeed relevant when it means you have no other options during that window to bolster what was at the time a poor squad on a bad run. So 'take it or leave it'! Stick with the squad you have until the end of the season or take the players the Chairman is recommending.

I guess its down to what information you choose to believe. I referred earlier to Mixu's interview from last September.



Some of Mixu's comments in this interview (highlighted) are very telling. However, I'm sure you'll look at them in a different light. :wink:

I'm not entirely anti-Board. They have done well in some areas and I've been known to defend their position on here on certain decisions.

But I won't suck in everything they tell me without question - and there are some areas where (inevitably) they will not give us the complete picture.

Pretty sure the transfer kitty section you've highlighted is Mixu talking about Killie, not Hibs, but in general Mixu signed a lot of players at Hibs, is he trying to suggest they weren't his choices? Even if we assume Nish and Rankin were 'forced on him' surely the rest would have allowed him to play 'his way.'

Shame his fullback philosophy lead to him buying Zarabi as the solution!

greenlex
22-01-2011, 02:42 PM
Plenty of time is indeed relevant when it means you have no other options during that window to bolster what was at the time a poor squad on a bad run. So 'take it or leave it'! Stick with the squad you have until the end of the season or take the players the Chairman is recommending.

I guess its down to what information you choose to believe. I referred earlier to Mixu's interview from last September.



Some of Mixu's comments in this interview (highlighted) are very telling. However, I'm sure you'll look at them in a different light. :wink:

I'm not entirely anti-Board. They have done well in some areas and I've been known to defend their position on here on certain decisions.

But I won't suck in everything they tell me without question - and there are some areas where (inevitably) they will not give us the complete picture.
I do not believe for one nano second there was a take it or leave it attitude from the board. How about a here is the work the scouting team and club have done so far. What do you think. A week was enough to sign Rankin. Three was enough to sign Nish.
To say there would have been no alternative to those two players is nonsense. There may not have been better within our budget in those timescales but it is still up to the manager to say yes or no. The manager saw fit to sign them to enhance the squad he inherited that was up to him so againi I will say it they are his signings not Petries.
Mixus thoughts about restraints at Hibs are again a different arguement there is nowhere in that passage he alludes to Petrie signing players rather than him which is what started this discussion. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. IMO Petrie has signed no one and the Manager has the final say on players.
Mixu may have had time constraints on signings but I think we can blame Collins for walking when he did on that.

EDIT-

I have read the passage and your highlights three times now and I canrt see what Mixu is trying to say here. Even reading between the lines it looks like he is saying he didnt pick the tams or tactics.
He had two windows to get players who could play the way he wanted. If we cant afford them thats a different matter. I am confused that Killie can afford them and we cant though. If we didnt have the players to play how he wanted why did he continue to try and play to his ideals rather than the players strengths. Ultimately he failed because of this. I think he, like Collins, couldnt do it on our budget despite it increasing every year. A budget that is better than most of our rivals. Calderwood has the chance to do it almost from scratch in the Summer I really do hope he can.

Sammy7nil
22-01-2011, 02:46 PM
Jackie is one of my all time Hibs heros, but I don't know what qualifies him to comment on the current state of affairs at Hibs. Furthermore, does Jackie want the club to return to the state of affairs that he and his mucker Duff Jimmy left us in?

If there were some figures and other evidence to back up his assertion I wouldn't be so hard. As it is, I get the feeling we've heard this sort of thing before.



I wish Yogi and his cohorts would just disappear with dignity. It's over, get over it.

Jackie is a Hibs Legend and LONG Time fan who goes to atch the team I think he is well placed to comment, I dont agree with his comments about Yogi but he is well entitled to his opinion.

BEEJ
22-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Pretty sure the transfer kitty section you've highlighted is Mixu talking about Killie, not Hibs,
Mixu is indeed talking there about his transfer kitty now. And look what he's managed to achieve (so far) with a much reduced budget. It's the underlined part of that sentence which is particularly interesting.


but in general Mixu signed a lot of players at Hibs, is he trying to suggest they weren't his choices? Even if we assume Nish and Rankin were 'forced on him' surely the rest would have allowed him to play 'his way.'
I think the implicit criticism would be two-fold:

the players that were not directly of his choosing take up a portion of the player wage budget which is then not available to him;
the limited flexibility in the wage structure which would have prevented him from bringing certain players to the club (e.g. an Eremenko)

I think on the latter point, Hibs have got better over the last few years. But it would be interesting to know how we compare to other SPL sides.


Shame his fullback philosophy lead to him buying Zarabi as the solution!
Zarabi is a prime example of the problem Mixu faced in that window. The player was signed on 31 January 2008 and clearly due to the lack of time available to find another LB after the sale of Murphy, Mixu took a gamble and suffered the consequences.

Hammel would have been little better, of course! :greengrin

BEEJ
22-01-2011, 03:02 PM
We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. IMO Petrie has signed no one and the Manager has the final say on players.
Mixu may have had time constraints on signings but I think we can blame Collins for walking when he did on that.
If 'having the final say on players' is, at times, no more than rubber-stamping, then its meaningless.

But I agree. :agree: We will have to agree to disagree on this. Neither of us is going to convince the other.


Ultimately he failed because of this. I think he, like Collins, couldnt do it on our budget despite it increasing every year. A budget that is better than most of our rivals. Calderwood has the chance to do it almost from scratch in the Summer I really do hope he can.
Don't think Mixu was saying anything about tactics - they were entirely down to him but were limited by the personnel at his disposal.

As for this summer, it is a daunting task that Calderwood faces. A massive undertaking in an area (player recruitment) where Hibs have obvious weaknesses. We agree in our fervent hope that CC, and all those supporting him, are on their very best game when it comes to the summer window.

basehibby
22-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I wish supporters would stop pervading the myth that Collins Mixu and Yogi selected poor signings

Most of those were lined up by our Director of Football - Rod Petrie

Very few were the managers first choice

:agree: and herein lies the problem. While I appreciate the work done by Petrie and others in building up the club's infrastructure, I think it's obvious that far too many signings (including the managers) have been second or third options, opted for when the board balked at coughing up the going rate for option no1 (even after raking in fantastic fees for previous seasons' star performers).

While I appreciate that the books have to be balanced, the relentless strategy of bottom line above all which has been followed has led directly to the sea of mediocrity in which we are now swimming IMO.

ScottB
22-01-2011, 03:12 PM
:agree: and herein lies the problem. While I appreciate the work done by Petrie and others in building up the club's infrastructure, I think it's obvious that far too many signings (including the managers) have been second or third options, opted for when the board balked at coughing up the going rate for option no1 (even after raking in fantastic fees for previous seasons' star performers).

While I appreciate that the books have to be balanced, the relentless strategy of bottom line above all which has been followed has led directly to the sea of mediocrity in which we are now swimming IMO.

Based on what evidence exactly?

We've spent 3 million quid, our wage budget is £4.6 million, we are at 68% wages to turnover, how much more should we be paying exactly? It is exactly the Board's job to turn down ridiculous signing targets, like when Collins rocked up expecting us to outbid Rangers for Steven Naismith.

Our current predicament is not a lack of money, it is a mixture of poor choices and a bad culture at the club, Mixu's signings at Killie have been referenced, does anybody honestly think Killie are paying more out in wages than we are?

basehibby
22-01-2011, 03:22 PM
Thanks for that Paul :greengrin

As another poster pointed out that people on here were shouting for the board to "make a statement" which they did, saying basically all they could really say. For which then they were basically accused of lying and then ripped to pieces for making a statement. CC, who is in the door five minutes is also repeatedly,to all intents and purposes, accused of lying. Not only that he is, apparently, a total wuss who is RP's bitch and has no opinions of his own because, again it appears, its Rod who identifies and signs players.

All of this, to most reasonable people is, at best, nonsense, and at worst mischievous and self serving.

There are folk on here, and ex-employees of the club, who for one reason or another have it in for Farmer and Petrie and our current predicament seems, to me at least, to be heaven sent for these people. They should enjoy it while they can because this situation will not last for ever.

That's a cheap and worthless dig - offering considered criticism is a very long way away from having it in for anybody.
I certainly don't have it in for Petrie as I recognise and appreciate his achievements with Hibs over the last decade. That said, I don't think he's called everything right and I certainly don't see him as some sort of messianic figure who is beyond criticism.
Jackie Mac - a big Hibs fan who also has the insight of having played and coached at ER - has articulated many of my concerns and I applaud this article as it makes me feel as if I've got something off my own chest.
Hopefully, the board will take these concerns on board and will adjust their strategy to ensure that Calderwood receives the backing he needs to turn things around.

basehibby
22-01-2011, 03:35 PM
Based on what evidence exactly?

We've spent 3 million quid, our wage budget is £4.6 million, we are at 68% wages to turnover, how much more should we be paying exactly? It is exactly the Board's job to turn down ridiculous signing targets, like when Collins rocked up expecting us to outbid Rangers for Steven Naismith.

Our current predicament is not a lack of money, it is a mixture of poor choices and a bad culture at the club, Mixu's signings at Killie have been referenced, does anybody honestly think Killie are paying more out in wages than we are?

Common sense and observation would lead me to believe that Zarabi was NOT the 1st choice replacement for David Murphy, Colin Nish was NOT the 1st choice replacement for Steven Fletcher and Brian Kerr was NOT the 1st choice replacement for Boozy. I could go on but these are three good examples of comings and goings which have seen the quality of the squad steadilly decline as a direct result of stringent economy imposed upon successive managers
Don't know what other sort of evidence you're looking for to back up my opinion - I could always try bugging Rod's moby but that's illegal these days as can be testified by the NOTW hacks currently doing time in chokey.

ScottB
22-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Common sense and observation would lead me to believe that THomas Sowumni was NOT the 1st choice replacement for David Murphy, Colin Nish was NOT the 1st choice replacement for Steven Fletcher and Brian Kerr was NOT the 1st choice replacement for Boozy. I could go on but these are three good examples of comings and goings which have seen the quality of the squad steadilly decline as a direct result of stringent economy imposed upon successive managers
Don't know what other sort of evidence you're looking for to back up my opinion - I could always try bugging Rod's moby but that's illegal these days as can be testified by the NOTW hacks currently doing time in chokey.

Did you actually expect us to sign players just as good as Fletcher, Brown, Whittaker, Murphy and co after they left? How much money do you think that would require?

ahibby
22-01-2011, 03:59 PM
The only thing I disagree with is his statement re Yogi should still be in charge. Other than that I agree with him. The writing has been on the wall for a long time with Hibs the fans have seen it coming for longer than the board appears to have. Those are the men in charge of our club. How is it that we could have told them this is where we have been heading for a long time but they have done nothing to stop it? They think they are worth their big wages but I don't; they are culpable. RP talked about the thin line between things going right and going wrong. He is totally out of the ball park in that case because the thin line he talks about doesn't exist for over a year he has had plenty time to do something right. Those were the kind of things that Pat Stanton used to say when he didn't get a bean from the board to improve the team. I am totally disgusted.