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Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 01:54 PM
10 team league Broadly agreed by clubs at meeting at Hampden and also a 12 team championship 2nd division:rolleyes:

Thoughts on this? Im not convinced

steviecarnie
17-01-2011, 01:58 PM
10 team league Broadly agreed by clubs at meeting at Hampden and also a 12 team championship 2nd division:rolleyes:

Thoughts on this? Im not convinced

so Utd, Hearts and other crumbled under the combined pressure of the Old Firm SPL and the money.......Surprised? Nope

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 01:59 PM
10 team league Broadly agreed by clubs at meeting at Hampden and also a 12 team championship 2nd division:rolleyes:

Thoughts on this? Im not convinced

Not at all convinced but if it's designed to soften the blow of the financial oblivion that is relegation, maybe we should be thankful.

Hibs7
17-01-2011, 02:00 PM
Absolute stupidity, like turkeys calling for Christmas, the SPL IS DEAD !!

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:01 PM
so Utd, Hearts and other crumbled under the combined pressure of the Old Firm SPL and the money.......Surprised? Nope



:agree: Bottled it.

one day maybe...
17-01-2011, 02:01 PM
RIP Scottish Football

IFONLY
17-01-2011, 02:03 PM
:agree: Bottled it.

Yeah they might have bottled it, not like our team who voted for it right away!!!!!!

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:04 PM
RIP Scottish Football


Neil Doncaster chief mourner at the SPL funeral. SPL is :dead:

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah they might have bottled it, not like our team who voted for it right away!!!!!!




Petrie seen the ££££££££££££££ signs :greengrin

IFONLY
17-01-2011, 02:06 PM
Petrie seen the ££££££££££££££ signs :greengrin

So why complain about other teams bottling it?

Woody1985
17-01-2011, 02:06 PM
********s.

25% of the SPL in line for relegation every season as you can take the OF out of the equation.

If what you're saying about a 12 team second tier then that means the money now needs to stretch over 22 teams rather than the original 20. Strange.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:08 PM
So why complain about other teams bottling it?



Im against a 10 team lge. Id rather have a 14 or 16 team lge. It cant be all about money. What about what the fans want? Its always done to suit the old firm IMO

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:10 PM
********s.

25% of the SPL in line for relegation every season as you can take the OF out of the equation.

If what you're saying about a 12 team second tier then that means the money now needs to stretch over 22 teams rather than the original 20. Strange.


Thats what was said on SPN about 20min ago

Greentinted
17-01-2011, 02:10 PM
Very short sighted. Football fans are becoming increasingly sophisticated, particularly in fiscal matters; bums off seats and a decline in Pay TV subscriptions will get the message over in time. Let them all (and I include our custodians in this also) choke on their own vomit after attempting to have their cake and eat it.
And maybe then, WE will be able to reclaim OUR game!

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:17 PM
Providing the SFA and SFL agree this there will be a vote within the next 2 months.

Saorsa
17-01-2011, 02:18 PM
10 team league Broadly agreed by clubs at meeting at Hampden and also a 12 team championship 2nd division:rolleyes:

Thoughts on this? Im not convincedIf this does get the go-ahead that'll be me basically finished with fitba, perhaps cup games aside. I'll not be throwing away hundreds of pounds on something I consider tae be worse than what is there now.

jgl07
17-01-2011, 02:24 PM
We had this sort of headline earlier and it was later found that half the clubs were not happy. This may be more PR spin from the leadership.

If it is confirmed I will say goodby to Scottish Football.

I didn't use my season ticket last weekend and will not use it again.

Devonhibs
17-01-2011, 02:27 PM
An overwhelming number of fans dont what a 10 club league, clubs dont listen to the fans, OF have have controlling interest in voting, 10 club league will be worse due to more defensive and less open football - **** it - why should I bother to take an interest in scottish football!!!!!!!!!!!!! It will be even harder to attract players when one of the things they dislike is playing the same teams too often. The SPL and the clubs chairmen can do one as far as I am concerned.:bye:

sam armstrong
17-01-2011, 02:28 PM
Im against a 10 team lge. Id rather have a 14 or 16 team lge. It cant be all about money. What about what the fans want? Its always done to suit the old firm IMO

I'd rather watch Hibs playing Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hearts etc twice than watching Morton, Airdrie, Hamilton and others. Scotland just doesn't have enough people for a big top league. The fans voted with their feet before when we had an eighteen club league and that's why we ended up with a ten club league.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:28 PM
We had this sort of headline earlier and it was later found that half the clubs were not happy. This may be more PR spin from the leadership.

If it is confirmed I will say goodby to Scottish Football.

I didn't use my season ticket last weekend and will not use it again.


Official statement from Hampden is for a 10 team SPl and a 12 team Championship so 2 clubs getting bumped from SPL if that goes through. Neil Doncaster to do press conference later.

MB62
17-01-2011, 02:29 PM
If this does get the go-ahead that'll be me basically finished with fitba, perhaps cup games aside. I'll not be throwing away hundreds of pounds on something I consider tae be worse than what is there now.

:agree: 100%

What we are being served up at ER at the moment has all but finished me. Going back to a tried and tested failure of a 10 team league will be the last straw.

The OF have been slowly strangling Scottish fitba for decades, this will just be the final nail in the coffin IMO. They will then be able to apply to join the English set up as they have nobody but themselves to play against, something they have been able to do for years.

one day maybe...
17-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Oooo I can hardly contain my excitement :rolleyes:

Again the customer is being told what they can have, not what would you like sir/madam? Eh! excuse me but we are the ones paying or not paying soon as many will now just stop going. A chance was there for proper reform within our game, one that could have benefited every club in Scotland and what do the greedy gets do, vote for more cash to bankroll Rangers/Celtics greed.

Prime example of the customer isn't right happened today. I was in Britains biggest food retailer, I fancied making myself a wee cheese and tomato sandwich when I got home. Cool I thought, I will just buy a tomato as I had cheese at home. I couldn't see any loose tomatoes, jut punnets of them with around 8 in them. I asked an assistant where can I find the loose tomatoes, Oh sorry we just sell them in punnets nowadays. **** me canna even buy a tomato without being forced to buy half a tonne of them. A wee bit radical I know but the same principal is being applied, wee as the customer are continually being told what we want.
Aye right :na na:

jonny
17-01-2011, 02:31 PM
When the OP says "broadly agreed" does that mean that everyone is in or that they still might be a couple of votes short to push it through? What happened to the discussions on a 14 team league?

A 12 team 2nd division will surely pose exactly the same problems as the current set up. Or rather than split will they play 44 games? I know they play this many in the lower English leagues but they have much more teams. Can you imagine getting relegated and having to play the likes of Airdrie and Morton 4 times a season? :no way:

Thecat23
17-01-2011, 02:34 PM
If this does go ahead, I hope the SPL Dies a slow painfull death. Why on earth would fans want a 10 team league ffs? No wonder players won't want to come to our clubs we're a joke. It's all about cash and money men, including Petrie! Get football people in the job, listen to the fans and lets try work together not always go against the things that make sense. Are the SFA actually wanting to kill the SPL? I think they are that way Rangers and Celtic can do one south without an excuse.

Sorry but i'm sick to death of those two clubs and i'll defo not renew my season ticket if it were to go ahead. Fans should vote with there feet... but do we have the balls???

stevenhibs
17-01-2011, 02:45 PM
This may well end up in a 3 down, 1 up to keep promotion alive in the 1st div.

They all must have made a fortune when we were down there. Wouldn't surprise me if they're hoping for us to drop again. :confused:

down the slope
17-01-2011, 02:48 PM
So here is the gist of it from Petrie and co, we know you don't want it ,yer gettin it anyway so hand over the cash , aye right. what other branch of sport would they treat the customers this way ?, thats it for me, , finished with the whole thing.

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 02:51 PM
When the OP says "broadly agreed" does that mean that everyone is in or that they still might be a couple of votes short to push it through? What happened to the discussions on a 14 team league?

A 12 team 2nd division will surely pose exactly the same problems as the current set up. Or rather than split will they play 44 games? I know they play this many in the lower English leagues but they have much more teams. Can you imagine getting relegated and having to play the likes of Airdrie and Morton 4 times a season? :no way:


There will be a vote in about 2 months if everything is agreed and yes they will play 44 games:rolleyes:

steviecarnie
17-01-2011, 02:52 PM
i'll defo not renew my season ticket

so who is gonna start the deluge of emails to fife and the rest explaining that if this 10 team league goes ahead they will not be renewing their season ticket, im sure if his inbox filled up with a good few thousand emails alarm bells would ring!

truehibernian
17-01-2011, 02:55 PM
If this does go ahead, I hope the SPL Dies a slow painfull death. Why on earth would fans want a 10 team league ffs? No wonder players won't want to come to our clubs we're a joke. It's all about cash and money men, including Petrie! Get football people in the job, listen to the fans and lets try work together not always go against the things that make sense. Are the SFA actually wanting to kill the SPL? I think they are that way Rangers and Celtic can do one south without an excuse.

Sorry but i'm sick to death of those two clubs and i'll defo not renew my season ticket if it were to go ahead. Fans should vote with there feet... but do we have the balls???

The thing is though mate, Scottish football is dying on it's feet regardless of the amount of teams in the top tier.

The problem with Scottish football as I see it is the chronic lack of investment in facilities (both indoor and outdoor) and the lack of money spent on good, quality coaching. The loss of the reserve league is nothing short of criminal and we are one of the only countries in Europe to have dispensed with a reserve set-up.

Teams in the SPL had to train and rely on booking Ravenscraig. Hibs are in the semi fortunate position they have a small indoor facility at East Mains.

Scotland should have 6 or 7 state of the art indoor facilities to play games, train in, coach, etc etc. Public park pitches should be upgraded fully. But this should have happened 15 years ago when other countries, particularly Scandinavia were forging ahead with football investment.

Instead the likes of ourselves, Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Aberdeen were wasting fortunes on layers with scrabble names......Jim McLean was 100% bang on. Millions were wasted on players wages and salaries on players who no one had ever heard of, but they came from abroad so that's okay. Agents fees take even more money out the game.

Look around Edinburgh and some of the pitches are a disgrace. No one looking after them, no quality surfaces, no decent floodlights, changing rooms you actually have to wash yourself when you get home due to the filth inside.

For me it could be 10 teams or 20 teams......makes no difference at all. The standard of Scottish football is light years behind our European counterparts and will not mean any decent investment in football/sport infrastructure. Even poorer African and Asian countries have forged ahead, so keen are they to see sport flourish.

Scottish Government's priorities, no matter what party, have been and always will be all wrong towards sport in general. That's the bigger picture IMHO.

greenlex
17-01-2011, 02:56 PM
Stupidity. 14 team SPL a d 10 team SPL2 is the way forward.

Thecat23
17-01-2011, 02:57 PM
so who is gonna start the deluge of emails to fife and the rest explaining that if this 10 team league goes ahead they will not be renewing their season ticket, im sure if his inbox filled up with a good few thousand emails alarm bells would ring!

If someone wants to post his email address I'll be happy to send one, I'll also post it on here what I sent and the reply if I get one

Sudds_1
17-01-2011, 02:59 PM
This may well end up in a 3 down, 1 up to keep promotion alive in the 1st div.

They all must have made a fortune when we were down there. Wouldn't surprise me if they're hoping for us to drop again. :confused:

A 10 and 12 set up means 3 down and 1 up........sp basically, Rod the turkey just voted for Xmas it seems. Or does he think we'll be better next season?

Seriously though....in terms of money I can't see whats attractive for Rod. we now have a 22 spl set uop - top tier of 10 and second tier of 12. In terms of cash, assuming the uglies retain their "leaked" 35% of the revenue, that means we now have 20 teams sharing the remaining 65%.

So...they get less. Makes no sense at all - unless Sky have delivered the ultimatum "...accept or get zilch".

steviecarnie
17-01-2011, 03:00 PM
If someone wants to post his email address I'll be happy to send one, I'll also post it on here what I sent and the reply if I get one

someone emailed the club and recieved a reply and posted it here check that thread see if its posted there.

sambajustice
17-01-2011, 03:15 PM
so who is gonna start the deluge of emails to fife and the rest explaining that if this 10 team league goes ahead they will not be renewing their season ticket, im sure if his inbox filled up with a good few thousand emails alarm bells would ring!

Can someone not just write a generic email.

Basically something along the lines of " Dear Mr *Chairman* I will not be renewing my season ticket/ attending any more SPL games (delete where applicable) while there is a 10 team league in operation"

Then go on to list a number of reasons stating why a 10 team league is such an anbomination of idea. Definitely include something about how we are sick of being dictated to by yon bampots in the West. They play the tunes (for want of a better word) and we just go dancing along behind them!

Nothing too long, just something straight to the point, then its just a case of everyone copying and pasting the same e-mail and sending it to the chairman.

I would do it but there will be people with better writing skills than me on here. Plus, i dont know anything about football! :rolleyes:

Thecat23
17-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Can someone not just write a generic email.

Basically something along the lines of " Dear Mr *Chairman* I will not be renewing my season ticket/ attending any more SPL games (delete where applicable) while there is a 10 team league in operation"

Then go on to list a number of reasons stating why a 10 team league is such an anbomination of idea. Definitely include something about how we are sick of being dictated to by yon bampots in the West. They play the tunes (for want of a better word) and we just go dancing along behind them!

Nothing too long, just something straight to the point, then its just a case of everyone copying and pasting the same e-mail and sending it to the chairman.

I would do it but there will be people with better writing skills than me on here. Plus, i dont know anything about football! :rolleyes:

I'll do it.. My writing skills are pretty poor, but maybe that will help get to the point :greengrin

patlowe
17-01-2011, 03:26 PM
This was Scottish football's last chance to do something RADICAL with the way the game is run in this country. As long as teams are playing each other four times a season, the inherent banalities and inequalities of football in Scotland will persist and I for one have had enough. Hearing people so in thrall to SKY and the Old Firm is one of the most depressing things about this whole debacle.

down-the-slope
17-01-2011, 03:36 PM
So basically its now shunt 2 out of SPL into First div and rename that......and that makes sense because....:rolleyes: nope lost me

So the teams who have been regularly bottom six are basically gambling on not being one of the two punted v getting their 4th game with OF / Hearts / Dons etc ....

what happened to SPL 1 & 2 (now calling it championship :confused:) so is the TV deal for both or not now?

If they had done this 10 years ago could have saved a fortune on ground redevelopment...maybe 2 stadiums was all that was needed...in glasgow say:wink:...could have 2 or 3 games each, one sat one sunday one after the other...giving 6 hours tv one day 4 the next....for all the fans who wont bother going to games to settle down in front of with their mega sat tv package ...TV happy...OF happy (lots of blue nose burgers & shamrock pies sold)....and the rest could have saved redevelopment and ground upkeep costs......and build shiney flats on these sites as an investment in the


You know it makes sense :stirrer:

frazeHFC
17-01-2011, 03:41 PM
If this does get the go-ahead that'll be me basically finished with fitba, perhaps cup games aside. I'll not be throwing away hundreds of pounds on something I consider tae be worse than what is there now.

Same with me, absolutely enraged. Making a terrible league worse.

They clearly do not care about the fans, only a large protest would make our voices heard.

davehiby
17-01-2011, 03:52 PM
fans survey before christmas and if i remember 78%of fans wanted a bigger league and defo not 10 so to me thats all the chairmen saying to the customer :get it right up you: we don't care a dot for your opinion.as a loyal hibby for longer than i can remember if they have that opinion of my and the vast majority of fans they can stuff it

down-the-slope
17-01-2011, 03:53 PM
I had an idea that at the next ER match - Gers....we encourage as many as possible to attend game...

When clock gets to 40 mins ask that all against the 10 team league turn their backs to the pitch until half time as a visable silent protest....get some press before hand (or leave it to the Hacks that peer in :wink:) to publicise.....

Let OUR board see that those not watching will become permenant empty seats.....they will vote in a short time and then slide will speed up unless we get our view across..

davehiby
17-01-2011, 04:00 PM
I had an idea that at the next ER match - Gers....we encourage as many as possible to attend game...

When clock gets to 40 mins ask that all against the 10 team league turn their backs to the pitch until half time as a visable silent protest....get some press before hand (or leave it to the Hacks that peer in :wink:) to publicise.....

Let OUR board see that those not watching will become permenant empty seats.....they will vote in a short time and then slide will speed up unless we get our view across..


i think it would be a bigger statement to boycot the game.....but with the size of crowd dwindling weekly they may not notice

Houchy
17-01-2011, 04:02 PM
When is this reconstruction going to take place? Surely Rod hasn't voted for it if it's going to be at the end of this season? If it is 3 down, 1 up this season we are F*****:agree:

Can anyone tell me the actual/possible benefits of this as it's lose/lose for everyone as far as I can see.

Gatecrasher
17-01-2011, 04:07 PM
If/when this gets forced upon us, I'm done. I will pay my money no more

steviecarnie
17-01-2011, 04:12 PM
i think it would be a bigger statement to boycot the game.....but with the size of crowd dwindling weekly they may not notice

or a 10 minute boycott - its getting the word across tho, if someone can get flyers printed to be handed out at the next home game, at HT/FT and before and also on the day. it may cost a bit tho. ud also need a few volunteers to be at each stand to remind folk why this is being done and if they agree, that this is the only way to get the point across that ER will be morgue is this is pushed through.

davehiby
17-01-2011, 04:15 PM
sent this email to the board

sorry but as a life long hibby and s/t holder the thought of a 10 team spl turns me right of and i speak for many of my fellow supporters when i say the chances of me paying to come and watch what amounts to groundhog day are extemely minamal to nil

Gatecrasher
17-01-2011, 04:18 PM
Lot of disaffected Hibbies at the moment..the current plight of the club...and the seeming determination by SPL charmen to push 10 Team league through.

I have confidence that in time Hibs as a team can be turned around

However a 10 team league will be eventually terminal

So we can accept things or do what we can to change it before its too late.

Th3e Live ESPN match with Rangers looks a good opportunity to send a message to Board / SPL.

I posted this on reconstruction thread....

I had an idea that at the next ER match - Gers....we encourage as many as possible to attend game...

When clock gets to 40 mins ask that all against the 10 team league turn their backs to the pitch until half time as a visable silent protest....get some press before hand (or leave it to the Hacks that peer in :wink:) to publicise.....This if done well would be impossible to ignore in a live broadcast unlike the odd banner etc

Let OUR board see that those not watching will become permenant empty seats.....they(the chairmen) will vote in a short time and then slide will speed up unless we get our view across..


Any other ideas....or do we just accept the terminal decline:rolleyes:

how about we all go home at HT, it will save us watching us getting gubbed, multi tasking n that :agree:

i agree something needs to be done

down-the-slope
17-01-2011, 04:20 PM
Deleted above post....whats the point in merging mods when it was trying to start a particular dialoge on protesting....

Censorship?

frazeHFC
17-01-2011, 04:25 PM
I agree that some sort of protest is needed.

We could get banners, sing a song showing our disgust etc. Down-the-slope, i like your idea. Maybe a new thread on it will kick start the protest.

alexedwards
17-01-2011, 04:29 PM
Same as 2007 - can't see the SFL voting for it. The SFL can collapse this nonsense.
:na na:

GreenCastle
17-01-2011, 04:44 PM
How come these teams who were against it, have suddenly changed their minds ?

This is a disaster and within 5 years the crowds will be at an all time low and the money will dry up.

Playing each other 4 times a season or more.......BORING :grr:

Previously made many points on the issue here..

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?200860-League-De-construction-(merged)

Similar banner to what Aberdeen had would make the board know what the fans think.

PaulSmith
17-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Deleted above post....whats the point in merging mods when it was trying to start a particular dialoge on protesting....

Censorship?

Behave, no need to look for a conspiracy here.

clashcityhibby
17-01-2011, 04:47 PM
Another fine example of how our game is a joke. The overwhelming majority of fans don't want to see a 10 team SPL, the money men want a 10 team SPL, the customer is off no importance to them!!! Ive had my season ticket 11 years running now and before that I was a regular without one. This though could well be the end of my football days. I am sick to death of the way the game is run now, its all money and tv, those in charge are far more concerned about catering to those who don't even attend matches to those hardy souls who fork out their hard earned every week. Disgrace.

davehiby
17-01-2011, 04:51 PM
Another fine example of how our game is a joke. The overwhelming majority of fans don't want to see a 10 team SPL, the money men want a 10 team SPL, the customer is off no importance to them!!! Ive had my season ticket 11 years running now and before that I was a regular without one. This though could well be the end of my football days. I am sick to death of the way the game is run now, its all money and tv, those in charge are far more concerned about catering to those who don't even attend matches to those hardy souls who fork out their hard earned every week. Disgrace.


10/10

Sylar
17-01-2011, 04:54 PM
I was really hoping for something which would shake up the SPL and regain my interest.

Not been to a game in nearly a full calendar year and I've no intention to change that this season.

It's also not going to change with these new plans. No doubt the price won't drop, in spite of the loss of 2 home fixtures - the VAT rise will probably justify another rise.

I feel for those who will renew their season tickets no matter what - paying over the odds, for a worsened product which our club has lead the charge in arranging. For you guys who fit into this category, it's a damned shame - for folks like you, the football on a weekend/weeknight is something you'll always look forward to - you're the staple customer of the SPL and yet again, they fail to listen.

Surely they can't implement the plans THIS season though - all clubs enter into the SPL competition with a series of rules and regulations - the governing body can't move the goalposts half way through because it suits their future agenda. Oh wait, this IS the SPL we're talking about...

Same as many others - game over for me - thank goodness for my many other sporting interests - I certainly won't miss Scottish Football.

Joe Baker II
17-01-2011, 04:55 PM
I do not have strong views on best structure (will never be perfect but think current 12 is OK albeit there should be play offs) but what was really objectionable from a Hibs point of view was the aggressive way at the recent Aberdeen game that stewards were asked to remove a "no-to-ten-team-SPL"banner held by Aberdeen fans, presumably with endorsement of Petrie.

I know I get slagged off on here for defending right of OF fans to sing "political" but the double standards here are obvious when this is tolerated (with some more offensive exceptions, geenrally rightly) but a directly football related "political" banner is not. I have not had a ST since 2009 but if this is attitude Hibs take toward free speech think Hibs fans have to really ask if their club deserves their support.

down the slope
17-01-2011, 05:02 PM
I do not have strong views on best structure (will never be perfect but think current 12 is OK albeit there should be play offs) but what was really objectionable from a Hibs point of view was the aggressive way at the recent Aberdeen game that stewards were asked to remove a "no-to-ten-team-SPL"banner held by Aberdeen fans, presumably with endorsement of Petrie.

I know I get slagged off on here for defending right of OF fans to sing "political" but the double standards here are obvious when this is tolerated (with some more offensive exceptions, geenrally rightly) but a directly football related "political" banner is not. I have not had a ST since 2009 but if this is attitude Hibs take toward free speech think Hibs fans have to really ask if their club deserves their support.

I noticed this as well-the dons fans were able to keep their supporters banner but the protest one was targeted , no surprise that it was petrie and Milne sitting in the stand. It would appear that the truth hurts so all the more reason to let them know what you think.

greenlex
17-01-2011, 05:04 PM
I do not have strong views on best structure (will never be perfect but think current 12 is OK albeit there should be play offs) but what was really objectionable from a Hibs point of view was the aggressive way at the recent Aberdeen game that stewards were asked to remove a "no-to-ten-team-SPL"banner held by Aberdeen fans, presumably with endorsement of Petrie.

I know I get slagged off on here for defending right of OF fans to sing "political" but the double standards here are obvious when this is tolerated (with some more offensive exceptions, geenrally rightly) but a directly football related "political" banner is not. I have not had a ST since 2009 but if this is attitude Hibs take toward free speech think Hibs fans have to really ask if their club deserves their support.
The same way Petrie git the "Petrie- splash the cash or quit banner?
Was the banner at the Aberdeen game not removed as some dicks were smoking behind it

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 05:06 PM
I noticed this as well-the dons fans were able to keep their supporters banner but the protest one was targeted , no surprise that it was petrie and Milne sitting in the stand. It would appear that the truth hurts so all the more reason to let them know what you think.


Start tmrw night at Ayr with a banner or song?:dunno: Failing that with the poor crowd expected in thwe away section it may look like a boycott :wink:

Lendo
17-01-2011, 05:14 PM
Even the Spanish fans are mocking us because of this farce

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Changing-room-chat-Spanish-fans.6687308.jp (http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Changing-room-chat-Spanish-fans.6687308.jp)

eastmainsmsh
17-01-2011, 05:21 PM
No wonder we are pish at International level our game is nothing short of woeful..... football in denmark,sweden,holland,belgium,norway etc all have 2 leagues why cant we have ... we need a change and reserve team football is a must as to many good payers are being lost to game

Dinkydoo
17-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Aw FFS, thats right, don't listen to the majority of the fans.

Typical.

ancient hibee
17-01-2011, 05:29 PM
I know nobody likes a smartass but I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that the 10 league would definitely go ahead and that what we were seeing was the clubs trying to get a little bit of the first and second place prize money redistributed.Why is everyone so naive?

down-the-slope
17-01-2011, 05:32 PM
I agree that some sort of protest is needed.

We could get banners, sing a song showing our disgust etc. Down-the-slope, i like your idea. Maybe a new thread on it will kick start the protest.

I did that and it was merged :rolleyes:

Hermit Crab
17-01-2011, 05:40 PM
I did that and it was merged :rolleyes:



A seperate thread entitled planned protest maybe? Could you really see alot of fans taking part in this? Would be good if all fans against the reconstruction to 10 teams united for a mass protest :greengrin

down the slope
17-01-2011, 05:54 PM
I know nobody likes a smartass but I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that the 10 league would definitely go ahead and that what we were seeing was the clubs trying to get a little bit of the first and second place prize money redistributed.Why is everyone so naive?

Not naive just bored , why will more of the same crap be better than what we have now ?, never mind at least there will be plenty of seat choices next season by the sound of things.

Hibee Daz
17-01-2011, 06:03 PM
Isn't it wonderful how our board backed this radically backwards idea from the off, talk aboot being kicked while yer doon.

The chairmen think that when it does go to 10 teams we'll all still follow like sheep, wishful thiking is it not and here was me thinking Rod didnae like to gamble!

What will happen when the TV deals eventually get scrapped, due to the fact that we will end up with even less quality on show, due to lack of revenue caused by increasingly dwindling crowds because of our leagues boring repetitiveness?

Scottish fitbas life expectancy has roughly about 5 years left I would say and thats me overestimating IMO.

Frogga
17-01-2011, 06:10 PM
I'm going to go against the flow and say I'd rather have a 10 team league. I'd rather have the simple league we had in the 90's than the silly split thing we have now. With more money from playing the better teams we are in a stronger position to attract talented footballers, whereas if we went to a 16 team league I fear that quality would get even worse as finances would be even worse.

HIBERNIAN-0762
17-01-2011, 06:12 PM
Petrie seen the ££££££££££££££ signs :greengrin

And the saved from relegation ones

:wink:

ancient hibee
17-01-2011, 06:14 PM
I'm going to go against the flow and say I'd rather have a 10 team league. I'd rather have the simple league we had in the 90's than the silly split thing we have now. With more money from playing the better teams we are in a stronger position to attract talented footballers, whereas if we went to a 16 team league I fear that quality would get even worse as finances would be even worse.
Quite agree.Surely we would prefer to be playing the OF or Hearts rather than Morton and Ross County?(and I know we might be playing them anyway)

Hibee Daz
17-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Quite agree.Surely we would prefer to be playing the OF or Hearts rather than Morton and Ross County?(and I know we might be playing them anyway)

So you would rather play the OF instead of teams that we actually have a better chance of competing against?

ancient hibee
17-01-2011, 06:30 PM
So you would rather play the OF instead of teams that we actually have a better chance of competing against?
Of course-it's the only way to improve.

Hibee Daz
17-01-2011, 06:54 PM
Of course-it's the only way to improve.

At the risk of being sarcastic, playing them both 4 times each a season has improved us to no end right enough.

All that will happen, will be their continued dominance as it will remain harder to pick up points thus making it more likely that we'll be scrapping for survival rather than competing for europe IMO!

Frogga
17-01-2011, 06:55 PM
I'd rather watch better quality football with fewer teams than vice-versa.

ancient hibee
17-01-2011, 06:56 PM
Me too.

down the slope
17-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Doncaster just said we should look to the Mcleish report as vindication for his plans.........says it all when he needs the backing of a failed labour politician for the grand plan.

Beefster
17-01-2011, 07:13 PM
So you would rather play the OF instead of teams that we actually have a better chance of competing against?

If we just want easier games, why is everyone getting sketchy about relegation?

Hibee Daz
17-01-2011, 07:27 PM
If we just want easier games, why is everyone getting sketchy about relegation?

Because this bunch of half hearted bassas are even worse than Duff Jimmys mob at least they tried to put up a fight! We are in an extremely unfortunate and unusual position of having roughly 5% quality and 95% garbage, IMO this is the worst team in my living memory and that is why people are sketchy about relegation!

greenlex
17-01-2011, 07:30 PM
At the risk of being sarcastic, playing them both 4 times each a season has improved us to no end right enough.

All that will happen, will be their continued dominance as it will remain harder to pick up points thus making it more likely that we'll be scrapping for survival rather than competing for europe IMO!
I don't get this old firm domination argument. Surely a bigger set up with poorer teams would aid them rather than facing each other more and having to face better teams more.?
How us a ten team league gonna help them?

LancsHibs
17-01-2011, 07:48 PM
Time to think outside the box, the way forward is to integrate the leagues into a British League

davehiby
17-01-2011, 07:53 PM
a link to sign against a 10 team spl


http://www.petitiononline.com/10teamsp/petition.html

Westie1875
17-01-2011, 07:59 PM
I was considering not renewing my season ticket anyway due to the garbage we have had to endure this season and the 2nd half of last season not being worth the £400 odd that it costs, if this goes through it will definitely push me over the edge.

In the current climate I could do with the extra cash in my pocket anyway as I'm sure many others could as well.

basehibby
17-01-2011, 08:09 PM
10 team league Broadly agreed by clubs at meeting at Hampden and also a 12 team championship 2nd division:rolleyes:

Thoughts on this? Im not convinced

I'm unconvinced - in fact I'm utterly astounded at this act of sheer folly - in agreeing to a 10 team top flight, the SPL chairmen have just trampled all over the opinions and wishes of the vast majority of fans, players and managers in Scotalnd as well as completely ignoring historical precedent.
I despair of this decision and fear for the future of our game - what will be the reaction of football fans to being treated with utter contempt by their clubs' chairmen? My prediction is they will start to vote with their feet and that this decision will lead directly to an acceleration in the decline of attendances at SPL matches.
I know that our own Rod Petrie was one of the "strategic" review comittee who pushed this through - as a result of this decision he has certainly lost my support to a large degree as I am now starting to be convinced of the arguments that he is purely an accountant with no real feeling for the game of football.

Woody1985
17-01-2011, 08:15 PM
a link to sign against a 10 team spl


http://www.petitiononline.com/10teamsp/petition.html

Signed. It could have been put a bit better but it won't make any difference anyway. They'll do what they want.

down the slope
17-01-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm unconvinced - in fact I'm utterly astounded at this act of sheer folly - in agreeing to a 10 team top flight, the SPL chairmen have just trampled all over the opinions and wishes of the vast majority of fans, players and managers in Scotalnd as well as completely ignoring historical precedent.
I despair of this decision and fear for the future of our game - what will be the reaction of football fans to being treated with utter contempt by their clubs' chairmen? My prediction is they will start to vote with their feet and that this decision will lead directly to an acceleration in the decline of attendances at SPL matches.
I know that our own Rod Petrie was one of the "strategic" review comittee who pushed this through - as a result of this decision he has certainly lost my support to a large degree as I am now starting to be convinced of the arguments that he is purely an accountant with no real feeling for the game of football.

Spot on, just heard Doncaster say a wee while ago that the new set up will be able to BRING IN a better quality of player , so much for young Scottish footballers. Another nail in the coffin of Scottish football all for the sake of a few bucks.

Just Jimmy
17-01-2011, 08:35 PM
that's me done folks. I'm already bored and fed up as it is. Now this. I'll watch English and Spanish football from my couch most of the season and head down to Newcastle as often as possible to catch it live.

I'm a Hibs fan, can't say I'm feeling like much of a 'supporter' these days, we've reaped what we've sowen and Scottish football will die a long, deserved death.

HibeeSince85
17-01-2011, 08:36 PM
I was really hoping for something which would shake up the SPL and regain my interest.

Not been to a game in nearly a full calendar year and I've no intention to change that this season.

It's also not going to change with these new plans. No doubt the price won't drop, in spite of the loss of 2 home fixtures - the VAT rise will probably justify another rise.

I feel for those who will renew their season tickets no matter what - paying over the odds, for a worsened product which our club has lead the charge in arranging. For you guys who fit into this category, it's a damned shame - for folks like you, the football on a weekend/weeknight is something you'll always look forward to - you're the staple customer of the SPL and yet again, they fail to listen.

Surely they can't implement the plans THIS season though - all clubs enter into the SPL competition with a series of rules and regulations - the governing body can't move the goalposts half way through because it suits their future agenda. Oh wait, this IS the SPL we're talking about...

Same as many others - game over for me - thank goodness for my many other sporting interests - I certainly won't miss Scottish Football.

To be fair, you've not been to a game in over a calender year, what do you care for Scottish football anyway?

I personally think whatever happens the game is in decline and that's the worst part, we never ever had a top league but gone are the years when it was enjoyable and has something about it.

The only reason I even follow Scottish football now is to follow Hibs.

BarneyK
17-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Spot on, just heard Doncaster say a wee while ago that the new set up will be able to BRING IN a better quality of player , so much for young Scottish footballers. Another nail in the coffin of Scottish football all for the sake of a few bucks.

Agreed. Kids will not be given their chance in such a cut-throat league. It was moaned about back then, what exactly has changed?

Moulin Yarns
17-01-2011, 08:40 PM
we have had 23 years of 10 and 12 team top divisions, where we have had 4 games against the same teams, more or less. During that time Rangers and Celtc have, at regular intervals, said they want to leave the SPL for England/Atlantic League/anybody that wants them, yet they still dominate the finances of the SPL, taking the lions share of all SPL revenue, complain about not enough competition.

Mad Vlad has the right idea, demand a redistribution of the SPL money to make a more level playing field. You want radical? How about reverse the money at present? the bottom club gets 15% of the money working down to something like 4% for the champions, that will give a bit more competition to the pair of Glasgow moaners.

Will it happen? No, but it would be good to see their faces when it is proposed!!:greengrin

greenlex
17-01-2011, 08:44 PM
Spot on, just heard Doncaster say a wee while ago that the new set up will be able to BRING IN a better quality of player , so much for young Scottish footballers. Another nail in the coffin of Scottish football all for the sake of a few bucks.

Don't think it is spot on. Petrie is trying to look after Hibs. 2 games against Celtic Rangers and Hearts at home us far better financially than 1 each and another game against Ross County Dunfermline and Partck.
The better fir bringing through youngsters argument will be based on the whole package of changes that include clubs outwith the two first divisions being used as feeder clubs or colts sides as they are naming them with players not being allowed to register for both first teams and colts.
I think fans need to get their heads out the sand and see that playing the top teams 4 times is the only financial way. TV is putting money in and it will dry up as Hibs V Hearts us much more apeslling and therefore lucrative than Ross County V Rangers. Without the TV money and less gate money the standard will plummet even further. We will end up in an Irish league standard or worse still LOW.
I don't want ten teams either but 14 with a split and the potential to play the top three(at present) is a decent compromise as it allows anot7her 2 clubs that potential too. It shouldn't harm Hibs in any way.
Petrie is looking after our club. Fans are using the old bored of four times a season as an excuse nit to go. No matter what the club if the team is winning the fans will turn up. The only reason they won't is price at the gate. If it was a tenner to get in it wouldn't matter who we were playing or when we would fill ER. Winning team is a given.

Greenblood70
17-01-2011, 09:21 PM
After years of forcing myself to attend the borefest that is Scottish football I've had enough after this announcement.

Wont be back and doubt very much I'll miss it.

ScottB
17-01-2011, 09:25 PM
I'd rather watch better quality football with fewer teams than vice-versa.

Are Dundee, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers and Falkirk vastly inferior sides compared to anything else in the SPL? Of course not.

The quality argument is a crock frankly, if the First Division was so inferior, when was the last time the promoted team went straight back down?

So a few years back, 10 teams was broken, done for and 12 was the future. Now apparently 10 is the best idea again? It's short term thinking on a truly colossal scale. They keep going on about TV money, what happens when the fans stop paying for it? What happens when less fans turn up?

16 teams was the sensible route. So clubs make less TV cash. Big deal, they've done it before, they could do it again.

StevieC
17-01-2011, 09:26 PM
Don't think it is spot on. Petrie is trying to look after Hibs. 2 games against Celtic Rangers and Hearts at home us far better financially than 1 each and another game against Ross County Dunfermline and Partck.
The better fir bringing through youngsters argument will be based on the whole package of changes that include clubs outwith the two first divisions being used as feeder clubs or colts sides as they are naming them with players not being allowed to register for both first teams and colts.
I think fans need to get their heads out the sand and see that playing the top teams 4 times is the only financial way. TV is putting money in and it will dry up as Hibs V Hearts us much more apeslling and therefore lucrative than Ross County V Rangers. Without the TV money and less gate money the standard will plummet even further. We will end up in an Irish league standard or worse still LOW.
I don't want ten teams either but 14 with a split and the potential to play the top three(at present) is a decent compromise as it allows anot7her 2 clubs that potential too. It shouldn't harm Hibs in any way.
Petrie is looking after our club. Fans are using the old bored of four times a season as an excuse nit to go. No matter what the club if the team is winning the fans will turn up. The only reason they won't is price at the gate. If it was a tenner to get in it wouldn't matter who we were playing or when we would fill ER. Winning team is a given.

A sound enough argument ..

.. except it's already been tried and more TV money meant more wages for mediocre players that got above themselves in how good they thought they were, demanding more and more wages until it got to the point of teams spiralling into debt and administration trying to match other teams that were doing exactly the same.

:rolleyes:

patlowe
17-01-2011, 09:32 PM
Don't think it is spot on. Petrie is trying to look after Hibs. 2 games against Celtic Rangers and Hearts at home us far better financially than 1 each and another game against Ross County Dunfermline and Partck.
The better fir bringing through youngsters argument will be based on the whole package of changes that include clubs outwith the two first divisions being used as feeder clubs or colts sides as they are naming them with players not being allowed to register for both first teams and colts.
I think fans need to get their heads out the sand and see that playing the top teams 4 times is the only financial way. TV is putting money in and it will dry up as Hibs V Hearts us much more apeslling and therefore lucrative than Ross County V Rangers. Without the TV money and less gate money the standard will plummet even further. We will end up in an Irish league standard or worse still LOW.
I don't want ten teams either but 14 with a split and the potential to play the top three(at present) is a decent compromise as it allows anot7her 2 clubs that potential too. It shouldn't harm Hibs in any way.
Petrie is looking after our club. Fans are using the old bored of four times a season as an excuse nit to go. No matter what the club if the team is winning the fans will turn up. The only reason they won't is price at the gate. If it was a tenner to get in it wouldn't matter who we were playing or when we would fill ER. Winning team is a given.

Crowds are falling, as is interest, because Scottish football is dull and repetitive. Playing each other 4 times is a hugely significant reason for this. It also makes it nigh on impossible for any non-OF team to get close to the title. I can understand perfectly that going to a 16-team league will have an immediate impact on finances but what is the alternative? A slow and painful death as fans continue to drift away and the TV deals disappear anyway.

Go 16, take the hit and lets find our natural level instead of this distorted league that has its development strangled by SKY and the OF. Only then will we see a competitive league with young players allowed to flourish. Maybe I'm idealistic but I have faith that the fans and wider interest will return, can you imagine the excitement of a derby at ER when you know there won't be another one for around a year? We talk about interest in our high-profile games but no-one outside Scotland even cares about OF derbies anymore as there's always one just around the corner! It's a sham.

**** the OF, **** SKY and **** a 10-team league.

StevieC
17-01-2011, 09:36 PM
So clubs make less TV cash. Big deal, they've done it before, they could do it again.

Agreed.

The whole 10 team set-up is about nothing more than maximising revenue.

Dont let them kid you about "better product", "promoting youth", "improving the game", these are nothing more than a smokescreen. Youth will not get a chance in a league that will be so cut-throat they will be fighting each other for what little experienced talent will be available. It will be "Millar Time" all over again with priority on defence, draws and players too scared to make mistakes you'll see any decent talent coached out in no time at all.

StevieC
17-01-2011, 09:41 PM
no-one outside Scotland even cares about OF derbies anymore

I'd go so far as to say there's a limited number inside Scotland as well. I've certainly no interest in OF derbies anymore.

GreenCastle
17-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Could somebody please explain why we moved from 10 teams to 12 teams in the first place?

And why moving back to what we decided needed changed before is now the way forward?

This is all about money - not the fans, not the players coming through, not trying to make it more interesting.

Winning helps but even look at Hibs and Hearts when they are 3rd the crowds are still crap.

You need to stop the Old Firm being so dominant - make it cheaper to attend and make games enjoyable - the current set up is DULL and PREDICTABLE.

greenlex
17-01-2011, 10:54 PM
A sound enough argument ..

.. except it's already been tried and more TV money meant more wages for mediocre players that got above themselves in how good they thought they were, demanding more and more wages until it got to the point of teams spiralling into debt and administration trying to match other teams that were doing exactly the same.

:rolleyes:
Hear what you are saying Stevie but its not about generating more cash its about trying to keep it at similar levels (I actualy think they fighting a losing battle) rather generating more. Less income will mean a drop in quality. It will hit smaller clubs hardest IMO as TV money is a bigger percentage of turnover than the Old Firms.

greenlex
17-01-2011, 10:59 PM
Crowds are falling, as is interest, because Scottish football is dull and repetitive. Playing each other 4 times is a hugely significant reason for this. It also makes it nigh on impossible for any non-OF team to get close to the title. I can understand perfectly that going to a 16-team league will have an immediate impact on finances but what is the alternative? A slow and painful death as fans continue to drift away and the TV deals disappear anyway.

Go 16, take the hit and lets find our natural level instead of this distorted league that has its development strangled by SKY and the OF. Only then will we see a competitive league with young players allowed to flourish. Maybe I'm idealistic but I have faith that the fans and wider interest will return, can you imagine the excitement of a derby at ER when you know there won't be another one for around a year? We talk about interest in our high-profile games but no-one outside Scotland even cares about OF derbies anymore as there's always one just around the corner! It's a sham.

**** the OF, **** SKY and **** a 10-team league.
Crowds are falling because its too expensive and not competative. Money is tight and football the country and I include England is suffering through the gate. As I said if it wasnt for those issues folk would go. You may have a point about derbies etc but if your team were winning regularly the fact the only came about twice a year would be immaterial.

ScottB
17-01-2011, 11:07 PM
Hear what you are saying Stevie but its not about generating more cash its about trying to keep it at similar levels (I actualy think they fighting a losing battle) rather generating more. Less income will mean a drop in quality. It will hit smaller clubs hardest IMO as TV money is a bigger percentage of turnover than the Old Firms.

Quality is dropping anyway, does anyone think any SPL team is as good now as it was a few years ago?

And now the limited TV cash is going to be shared across 22 clubs instead of 12, assuming that the now set up attracts the same amount of TV cash it does now. Who is to say that with such large amounts of supporter discontent, the broadcasters may offer less, fearing lower take up rates.

NYHibby
17-01-2011, 11:50 PM
If it is 3 down, 1 up like some are suggesting, then we could be stuck in the 1st division/championship for years. With two other current SPL teams, Falkirk, Dunfermline and maybe Dundee, who knows when we would get back to the top league based on how we're playing now. We could look pretty foolish for building the new East.

Mary Hinge
18-01-2011, 12:25 AM
Crowds are falling, as is interest, because Scottish football is dull and repetitive. Playing each other 4 times is a hugely significant reason for this. It also makes it nigh on impossible for any non-OF team to get close to the title. I can understand perfectly that going to a 16-team league will have an immediate impact on finances but what is the alternative? A slow and painful death as fans continue to drift away and the TV deals disappear anyway.

Go 16, take the hit and lets find our natural level instead of this distorted league that has its development strangled by SKY and the OF. Only then will we see a competitive league with young players allowed to flourish. Maybe I'm idealistic but I have faith that the fans and wider interest will return, can you imagine the excitement of a derby at ER when you know there won't be another one for around a year? We talk about interest in our high-profile games but no-one outside Scotland even cares about OF derbies anymore as there's always one just around the corner! It's a sham.

**** the OF, **** SKY and **** a 10-team league.

Well said that man :top marks

basehibby
18-01-2011, 01:40 AM
Don't think it is spot on. Petrie is trying to look after Hibs. 2 games against Celtic Rangers and Hearts at home us far better financially than 1 each and another game against Ross County Dunfermline and Partck.
The better fir bringing through youngsters argument will be based on the whole package of changes that include clubs outwith the two first divisions being used as feeder clubs or colts sides as they are naming them with players not being allowed to register for both first teams and colts.
I think fans need to get their heads out the sand and see that playing the top teams 4 times is the only financial way. TV is putting money in and it will dry up as Hibs V Hearts us much more apeslling and therefore lucrative than Ross County V Rangers. Without the TV money and less gate money the standard will plummet even further. We will end up in an Irish league standard or worse still LOW.
I don't want ten teams either but 14 with a split and the potential to play the top three(at present) is a decent compromise as it allows anot7her 2 clubs that potential too. It shouldn't harm Hibs in any way.
Petrie is looking after our club. Fans are using the old bored of four times a season as an excuse nit to go. No matter what the club if the team is winning the fans will turn up. The only reason they won't is price at the gate. If it was a tenner to get in it wouldn't matter who we were playing or when we would fill ER. Winning team is a given.

The financial argument to which you refer ignores the added value which comes with the rarity and exclusivity of any given product - eg. do you think the attendance on sat vs Celtic would have been anything like as poor if it was the only time Hibs were hosting them this season??? In any case, it is a blinkered argument which fails to take in the big picture re. the general good of the game in Scotland, and is also heavily swayed by the self-interest of the established clubs in the current top flight.

Re bringing through young players it is simple maths that the less teams in the top league, the less young players will be exposed to the top levels of the scottish game. It is also very well established that the tighter the league, the more reluctant managers are to blood youngsters

Re the TV money - sure there is a risk that the reduction in derbies and OF matches will lead to reduced TV funds, but I don't believe that this would be anything like as catastrophic as some are painting it to be - I certainly don't believe that SKY etc would just give up the whole shooting match, and there's always the possibility that the opposite coud happen if a more open league were perceived as an improved product. Besides, I don't believe that TV considerations should be the be all and end all when considering the structure of our league, as it seems to have been in this case.

Re the bit I've highlighted above - don't you think that's just a teeny bit patronising? I don't WANT an "excuse nit to go" FFS and I heavily suspect I speak for the VAST majority of football fans in saying that.

Steve-O
18-01-2011, 09:26 AM
Not sure why they even had the talks when the SPL were not going to have it any other way...it was 10 team or nothing, and they even said that!

Load of pish and will be interesting to see attendances at this "better product". I can't work out why it will be any better though? Can anyone enlighten me? :confused:

down the slope
18-01-2011, 10:01 AM
Reading the Scotsman article this morning there was a wee insight why some chairmen have changed their minds over the last week or so and i quote
"It is known, however, that some broadcasters are in favour of the 10-12 plan and have been trying to persuade sceptical clubs to back it ".
So with a promise of a bit more cash they have stuck two fingers up to the loyal fans who will once again be asked to fork out for a ST to watch even more games at nonsensical times. The silence on these changes have been deafening from our club in contrast to the start of the season urging me to renew , i must have had four communications from them reminding me that i was a part of the "Hibernian family " and not to forget the club. Well they seemed to have forgotten me and all the rest when they drove these proposals forward.

Northern Hibby
18-01-2011, 10:18 AM
If we play Rangers/Celtic only twice a season we could win one even pionts share if we play them 4 times they are the more likley to come away with the lions share of the points.

patlowe
18-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Reading the Scotsman article this morning there was a wee insight why some chairmen have changed their minds over the last week or so and i quote
"It is known, however, that some broadcasters are in favour of the 10-12 plan and have been trying to persuade sceptical clubs to back it ".
So with a promise of a bit more cash they have stuck two fingers up to the loyal fans who will once again be asked to fork out for a ST to watch even more games at nonsensical times. The silence on these changes have been deafening from our club in contrast to the start of the season urging me to renew , i must have had four communications from them reminding me that i was a part of the "Hibernian family " and not to forget the club. Well they seemed to have forgotten me and all the rest when they drove these proposals forward.

Exactly. It is insulting to the vast majority of fans in Scotland that their view is being dismissed so blatantly. Supporters are the lifeblood of the game but are being overruled by suits that "know better".

Sylar
18-01-2011, 12:15 PM
To be fair, you've not been to a game in over a calender year, what do you care for Scottish football anyway?

I personally think whatever happens the game is in decline and that's the worst part, we never ever had a top league but gone are the years when it was enjoyable and has something about it.

The only reason I even follow Scottish football now is to follow Hibs.

Isn't that the problem though? You're right, I don't really care anymore, which is a shame as I do enjoy watching football - I follow a vast array of other sports (NFL, baseball, Ice Hockey to name a few) and even when my respective team isn't succeeding, I still enjoy the product - that can't be said for the SPL.

I've not been in over a year because the competition is tired, the product is poor and overly expensive and the same branches of contention arise each season - the game just isn't progressive or focussed enough on future development.

The SPL should be making strides to bring back disaffected fans, not taking further steps to ensure those who are developing severe levels of apathy are pushed over the edge and away.

I appreciate those saying that if we're playing good football, people will go regardless, which is probably true, but it doesn't tackle the key issue for me, which is product quality/value for money.

I'd imagine most Hearts fans are really enjoying watching their team this season - they're playing good football, experiencing success and have a valid shout at finishing in the top 3, if not splitting them (or indeed doing the unthinkable). However, I'd wager (I don't frequent their fans forums, so can't say for sure) that most Hearts fans will voice against this, as indeed their club initially did.

This will further remove the competitive element of the game - I'm aware Rangers and Celtic are always likely to win the league, but with 2 additional teams in the league, it presents 2 additional teams for them to slip up against - more teams = more chances to drop points. By removing 2 teams, you get shorter seasons, less competition, but more money between the top 10 and THAT is what is driving this decision. Nothing other than the economic boosts the clubs' boards of directors will pocket in the name of "progress".

I don't know what the answer is, but I certainly don't feel this is it.

GreenCastle
18-01-2011, 12:26 PM
Isn't that the problem though? You're right, I don't really care anymore, which is a shame as I do enjoy watching football - I follow a vast array of other sports (NFL, baseball, Ice Hockey to name a few) and even when my respective team isn't succeeding, I still enjoy the product - that can't be said for the SPL.

I've not been in over a year because the competition is tired, the product is poor and overly expensive and the same branches of contention arise each season - the game just isn't progressive or focussed enough on future development.

The SPL should be making strides to bring back disaffected fans, not taking further steps to ensure those who are developing severe levels of apathy are pushed over the edge and away.

I appreciate those saying that if we're playing good football, people will go regardless, which is probably true, but it doesn't tackle the key issue for me, which is product quality/value for money.

I'd imagine most Hearts fans are really enjoying watching their team this season - they're playing good football, experiencing success and have a valid shout at finishing in the top 3, if not splitting them (or indeed doing the unthinkable). However, I'd wager (I don't frequent their fans forums, so can't say for sure) that most Hearts fans will voice against this, as indeed their club initially did.

This will further remove the competitive element of the game - I'm aware Rangers and Celtic are always likely to win the league, but with 2 additional teams in the league, it presents 2 additional teams for them to slip up against - more teams = more chances to drop points. By removing 2 teams, you get shorter seasons, less competition, but more money between the top 10 and THAT is what is driving this decision. Nothing other than the economic boosts the clubs' boards of directors will pocket in the name of "progress".

I don't know what the answer is, but I certainly don't feel this is it.

The value for money is a major problem - we are nearly playing Premiership prices for no where near the quality on show.

When it goes to 10 teams - season tickets will be the same or more - and we will be losing games to watch as 2 teams drop out! Value for money ?

Having read kickback and spoken with yams - 90% of the yams are against it.

The difference between them and us right now is they are doing well and we are terrible meaning the issue isn't as concerning.

Even though they are 3rd they still aren't selling out every home game (same applied to Hibs when we were 3rd last year).

You have to look long term and think of the fans and the youth players while also making the league competitive - that means someone other than Rangers or Celtic winning it every year for the last 26 years.

Hibee Daz
18-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Crowds are falling because its too expensive and not competative. Money is tight and football the country and I include England is suffering through the gate. As I said if it wasnt for those issues folk would go. You may have a point about derbies etc but if your team were winning regularly the fact the only came about twice a year would be immaterial.

Are we not likely to win more regularly if we are playing teams of a lesser standard than the top 4 teams? It would give us and most of the other teams the chance to go on a bit of a run, thus creating more gate money and as you say fans want to see their team win!

Gatecrasher
18-01-2011, 12:37 PM
Isn't that the problem though? You're right, I don't really care anymore, which is a shame as I do enjoy watching football - I follow a vast array of other sports (NFL, baseball, Ice Hockey to name a few) and even when my respective team isn't succeeding, I still enjoy the product - that can't be said for the SPL.

I've not been in over a year because the competition is tired, the product is poor and overly expensive and the same branches of contention arise each season - the game just isn't progressive or focussed enough on future development.

The SPL should be making strides to bring back disaffected fans, not taking further steps to ensure those who are developing severe levels of apathy are pushed over the edge and away.

I appreciate those saying that if we're playing good football, people will go regardless, which is probably true, but it doesn't tackle the key issue for me, which is product quality/value for money.

I'd imagine most Hearts fans are really enjoying watching their team this season - they're playing good football, experiencing success and have a valid shout at finishing in the top 3, if not splitting them (or indeed doing the unthinkable). However, I'd wager (I don't frequent their fans forums, so can't say for sure) that most Hearts fans will voice against this, as indeed their club initially did.

This will further remove the competitive element of the game - I'm aware Rangers and Celtic are always likely to win the league, but with 2 additional teams in the league, it presents 2 additional teams for them to slip up against - more teams = more chances to drop points. By removing 2 teams, you get shorter seasons, less competition, but more money between the top 10 and THAT is what is driving this decision. Nothing other than the economic boosts the clubs' boards of directors will pocket in the name of "progress".

I don't know what the answer is, but I certainly don't feel this is it.


good post, it sums a lot of what im thinking up the only difference for me is that im still stupid enough to attend games.

Posh Swanny
18-01-2011, 12:40 PM
I don't get this old firm domination argument. Surely a bigger set up with poorer teams would aid them rather than facing each other more and having to face better teams more.?
How us a ten team league gonna help them?

Its not so much what it does for them - they'll still win most of their games - but what it will do for other teams in the league. Currently teams effectively put 24 points on the line against the OF each season, and with probably a 80% chance of defeat, that instantly leaves a huge number of points to make up in the other games. Playing each other twice a season as opposed to four times would see that cut to 12, and mean that the odd win or draw against an OF team would be much more significant to a side trying to compete.

So even if the OF did still beat everyone most of the time, there is a much greater chance of a team like Hearts being able to muscle in on them as there would be so many "other" points to play for - even if they lost all four games against the OF it would mean only 12 points to claw back.

Sylar
18-01-2011, 01:27 PM
good post, it sums a lot of what im thinking up the only difference for me is that im still stupid enough to attend games.

I hope it's just the way you've worded your response, but I'd like to clarify that I don't think people are stupid for continuing to go games.

Each to their own and kudos to those who can financially afford to do so. It's just not for me.

H!BEE
18-01-2011, 02:19 PM
A 14 or 16 team league is what i would like. the 10 team idea has been tried and failed, if it was such a good idea why did we change it in the first place.

a bigger league, means more competition like other posters have said. And imagine

only one home derby a year, ohh how big would those games become. talk about selling out your stadium!!!!!!!!!

we could have a really competitive league, and all you guys moaning about playing morton and the like, every league has "whipping boys".

god- Burnely played in the premiership!

greenlex
18-01-2011, 03:38 PM
The financial argument to which you refer ignores the added value which comes with the rarity and exclusivity of any given product - eg. do you think the attendance on sat vs Celtic would have been anything like as poor if it was the only time Hibs were hosting them this season??? In any case, it is a blinkered argument which fails to take in the big picture re. the general good of the game in Scotland, and is also heavily swayed by the self-interest of the established clubs in the current top flight.

I know what you are saying but is it in hibs interest to have the stadium filled 6 times a season or three times? Filling the other games would just not happen. Until we can fill it or certainly the home stands we need to play the better clubs four times IMO.
As for the greater good and established clubs arguement I think having 40 Senior clubs in a country our size in this day and age is ridiculous and unsustainable. 20 is probably too many truth be known. 40 is certainly not in footballs interest.

Re bringing through young players it is simple maths that the less teams in the top league, the less young players will be exposed to the top levels of the scottish game. It is also very well established that the tighter the league, the more reluctant managers are to blood youngsters
I think you get me wrong here I am not in favour of a ten team league for this reason but everyone including yourself seems to ignoring the change to allow a colt team at a lower level. Imagine our u19 team more or less playing for a season or two progressing as Stirling Albion or whoever. They would develop in a competative enviroment before stepping up to the senior team
Re the TV money - sure there is a risk that the reduction in derbies and OF matches will lead to reduced TV funds, but I don't believe that this would be anything like as catastrophic as some are painting it to be - I certainly don't believe that SKY etc would just give up the whole shooting match, and there's always the possibility that the opposite coud happen if a more open league were perceived as an improved product. Besides, I don't believe that TV considerations should be the be all and end all when considering the structure of our league, as it seems to have been in this case.
Just disagree here. The PPV TV Companies are there to make money and the only way they can do that is through the Old Firm (mostly away games by the way) but yes the four Old Firm Derbys are a big sell as are four Edinburgh ones. I do agree it shouldnt be the be all and end all either but it is pretty important for every club in the top flight like it or not.

Re the bit I've highlighted above - don't you think that's just a teeny bit patronising? I don't WANT an "excuse nit to go" FFS and I heavily suspect I speak for the VAST majority of football fans in saying that.
Patronising. Possibly but it is my opinion. Fans are saying they are bored playing the same teams but when someone different rolls up to ER in the Scottish cup with cheaper gate prices they didnt bother turning up. Are we sure we are staying away because we are bored or is it because we are poor at the moment..

Gatecrasher
18-01-2011, 04:31 PM
I hope it's just the way you've worded your response, but I'd like to clarify that I don't think people are stupid for continuing to go games.

Each to their own and kudos to those who can financially afford to do so. It's just not for me.

Your response didn't suggest that at all. I just added my own opinion of me forking out loads of money to attend Scottish football these days