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Reaper
16-01-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm sure it's not a majority but reading a few posts on here there seems to be folk that think CC's time is up and he should be shown the door???? I find this interesting as does this now mean that the boards decision in 2002 to show Sauzee the door after only 69 days as he wasn't getting results right away was justified????

I at the time thought and still do it was a disgrace the way the board handled that situation and I seem to remember alot of other people were the same.

CC is just short of 3 months in the Job, but theoretically lets say he's there, that's only 20 or so days more than Sauzee????

Surely we have to give him more time, it's been proven hiring and firing in quick succession (8 managers in 10 years) does not work. :confused:

Stevie Reid
16-01-2011, 08:07 PM
We played well in many games under Sauzee but lost many by the odd goal. The football we are being treated to at the moment is possibly the worst I've seen.

Reaper
16-01-2011, 08:09 PM
We played well in many games under Sauzee but lost many by the odd goal. The football we are being treated to at the moment is possibly the worst I've seen.

Yeah, fair point, but I'd argue that Sauzee had a better team at his disposal. Surely CC needs to be given time to build a team around his own players before we start shouting for his Job????

lucky
16-01-2011, 08:14 PM
Le God was a legend who deserved to be treated with more respect.

CC just does not seem to have the ability/personalty to turn things around. Two weeks into the transfer window yet still no new faces. The team is crying out for fresh blood. IMHO he should have his targets lined up in December. The constant changing of the team and playing players who he has said can leave is baffling. Yes 3 months is not long but I think we have a very good chance going down with him as the manager. I pray I'm wrong. Just compare his performance to that of Pa Broon at Aberdeen. For me I think I would cut our losses. I would bring in his name sake till the end of the season to ensure we are still in the SPL. Hibs are the 4/5 biggest club in the league with a budget to match but are heading straight to Division 1.

Stevie Reid
16-01-2011, 08:25 PM
Yeah, fair point, but I'd argue that Sauzee had a better team at his disposal. Surely CC needs to be given time to build a team around his own players before we start shouting for his Job????

I am a level headed supporter but have no faith in CC at the moment, with good reason IMO. Even if we do stay up I'd be reticent to allow him the freedom to sign an entire squad in the summer.

Aldo
16-01-2011, 10:14 PM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

sesoim
16-01-2011, 11:31 PM
I'm sure it's not a majority but reading a few posts on here there seems to be folk that think CC's time is up and he should be shown the door???? I find this interesting as does this now mean that the boards decision in 2002 to show Sauzee the door after only 69 days as he wasn't getting results right away was justified????

I at the time thought and still do it was a disgrace the way the board handled that situation and I seem to remember alot of other people were the same.

CC is just short of 3 months in the Job, but theoretically lets say he's there, that's only 20 or so days more than Sauzee????

Surely we have to give him more time, it's been proven hiring and firing in quick succession (8 managers in 10 years) does not work. :confused:


We wouldn't have had to change managers so often if McLeish and Mowbray hadn't walked out, and Petrie had appointed decent replacements.

CC shouldn't be here in the first place (there were loads of better candidates), so should we just persevere even though he wasn't up to the job in the first place and hasn't done anything to prove otherwise? Is it a fluke that Craig Brown has transformed Aberdeen in less time than CC has been here?

sesoim
16-01-2011, 11:39 PM
We played well in many games under Sauzee but lost many by the odd goal. The football we are being treated to at the moment is possibly the worst I've seen.


I don't know if I can agree. We were pretty awful under Sauzee and he clearly wasn't ready. Interestingly, at the time, I suggested that we should have appointed Craig Brown (who had just left the Scotland job) and made Sauzee his assistant. I wouldn't have sacked Sauzee though, as we had a much bigger advantage over St Johnstone than we do currently have over Hamilton. What I would have done is brought in an experienced guy to help Sauzee out till he found his feet.

As for Calderwood, he's already been a manager a few years, he was hounded out of Notts Forest when they were at the foot of the table and playing poor football, so he hasn't learned much. To be honest, he doesn't come across as the type that would take anything in quickly. Petrie obviously had his reasons for appointing him - maybe he just took the easy option and appointed another guy because he had played for Scotland, like a lot of non-footballing minded chairman seem to do.

hibs0666
16-01-2011, 11:47 PM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

There seems to be a fair few noisy panic merchants around at the moment. Thank the lordy they are nowhere near running the club.

NORTHERNHIBBY
16-01-2011, 11:53 PM
even when CC has had teams being moderately successful, the football, by in large has been fairly awful. Stuffy 4-5-1 being hard to beat with 1-0's a common scoreline. That is his stock-in-trade and that must be what our chairman thinks will fill our 20,000 stadium. No way did he build that so we could fly the first division flag from the corner.

Hank Schrader
16-01-2011, 11:56 PM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

:top marks

hibs0666
17-01-2011, 12:00 AM
even when CC has had teams being moderately successful, the football, by in large has been fairly awful. Stuffy 4-5-1 being hard to beat with 1-0's a common scoreline. That is his stock-in-trade and that must be what our chairman thinks will fill our 20,000 stadium. No way did he build that so we could fly the first division flag from the corner.

Newcastle were murder to watch when they got promoted, not.

Notts Forest lost only twice at home in their promotion season, and Northampton 4 times.

Not good enough for us right enough.

:rolleyes:

Dr Jimmy
17-01-2011, 12:00 AM
even when CC has had teams being moderately successful, the football, by in large has been fairly awful. Stuffy 4-5-1 being hard to beat with 1-0's a common scoreline. That is his stock-in-trade and that must be what our chairman thinks will fill our 20,000 stadium. No way did he build that so we could fly the first division flag from the corner.

The fact that he leaves nobody up the park when defending corners says it all for CC's tactics. Alex Miller used to do that and it looks like the comparisons with AM don't end there.

Aldo
17-01-2011, 12:04 AM
Question

DO we play passing footie but get beat ever other week or do we play footie like we want to win every game.

ie... first and foremost hard to beat and then go up the park and score by whatever means.

For me i dont give a flying **** wot our performances are like as ling as we win. ENDOF.

and show the fans we want to play for the jersey and its a privelage to ply for Hibernian F.C

hibs0666
17-01-2011, 12:08 AM
The fact that he leaves nobody up the park when defending corners says it all for CC's tactics. Alex Miller used to do that and it looks like the comparisons with AM don't end there.

So if we leave a man forward that is going to make us stop conceding goals at corners? I wish that was all that we needed to do to get a winning team on the park.

Dr Jimmy
17-01-2011, 12:38 AM
So if we leave a man forward that is going to make us stop conceding goals at corners? I wish that was all that we needed to do to get a winning team on the park.

Just making a comparison about football styles that's all.

hibs0666
17-01-2011, 12:48 AM
Just making a comparison about football styles that's all.

Football style is irrelevant at the moment - we need wins by hook or by crook.

Dr Jimmy
17-01-2011, 12:55 AM
I agree and I would take a win in any way possible right now.
I was just saying I don't think we will need a seat belt for the ride CC is about to take us on. It has all the makings of Miller. Hope I am wrong, but its looking that way already.

TheUsualSuspect
17-01-2011, 04:46 AM
The fact that he leaves nobody up the park when defending corners says it all for CC's tactics. Alex Miller used to do that and it looks like the comparisons with AM don't end there.

So does Grampa Broon.

PeeJay
17-01-2011, 07:33 AM
I'm sure it's not a majority but reading a few posts on here there seems to be folk that think CC's time is up and he should be shown the door???? I find this interesting as does this now mean that the boards decision in 2002 to show Sauzee the door after only 69 days as he wasn't getting results right away was justified????

I at the time thought and still do it was a disgrace the way the board handled that situation and I seem to remember alot of other people were the same.

CC is just short of 3 months in the Job, but theoretically lets say he's there, that's only 20 or so days more than Sauzee????

Surely we have to give him more time, it's been proven hiring and firing in quick succession (8 managers in 10 years) does not work. :confused:

If we were dithering in a mid-table slot then I would agree it is too early to be considering such a move - however, being second bottom or bottom is unacceptable as would be relegation. We don't have a world-beating team but they can be made to play better than currently is the case - Yogi got us 4th and a European spot, whatever spin some people try to put on it, that is a fact: CC should be doing better or at least maintaining the status quo. As a club we have to be asking: when do we pull the brake on this current slide? For me a defeat tomorrow at Ayr would be reason enough to let him go - defeat to Ayr United is unacceptable. I actually hope that we win and that CC turns the thing around, but we have a tough series of games coming up and he has to start showing what he is capable of NOW.

stuart01
17-01-2011, 08:04 AM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF


Probably the most sensible post I have seen on here in the last few weeks. Whilst we are not playing to the standards we all want to see we need to give CC a chance. Hibs will not be relegated.

H!BEE
17-01-2011, 08:24 AM
give him some time is what my head says,

my heart says its not working.

ohh come on the hibs!

Cropley10
17-01-2011, 08:43 AM
Problem is the Board will have felt they needed to change the manager to change our season. Things is there's been no change yet. The situation has deteriorated in fact. Never mind whose players these are they are all we have now.

I really hope we see proper support from the Board this month. Otherwise it will be like hanging on to a rising balloon.

lucky
17-01-2011, 08:45 AM
Probably the most sensible post I have seen on here in the last few weeks. Whilst we are not playing to the standards we all want to see we need to give CC a chance. Hibs will not be relegated.

How can you be so certain Hibs will not get relegated? 4 leagues wins all season, only 2 wins since CC took over. That's relegation form in anyone book.

Kaiser1962
17-01-2011, 08:48 AM
Question

DO we play passing footie but get beat ever other week or do we play footie like we want to win every game.

ie... first and foremost hard to beat and then go up the park and score by whatever means.

For me i dont give a flying **** wot our performances are like as ling as we win. ENDOF.

and show the fans we want to play for the jersey and its a privelage to ply for Hibernian F.C

We need to toughen up a bit. Hughes has left us lightweight and soft. Who'd have thought that?

Golden Bear
17-01-2011, 09:25 AM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

:agree:

Sums things up perfectly.

keep the faith
17-01-2011, 09:52 AM
Question

DO we play passing footie but get beat ever other week or do we play footie like we want to win every game.

ie... first and foremost hard to beat and then go up the park and score by whatever means.

For me i dont give a flying **** wot our performances are like as ling as we win. ENDOF.

and show the fans we want to play for the jersey and its a privelage to ply for Hibernian F.C

Could not agree less. Playing football should be the Hibs way. We are not going to ever win the league but we can play attacking exciting football. That should be our mission as a club.

The ironic thing is that when people got bored with the passing football there was a clamour for a more direct style, we signed Nish and that was the start of the whole thing unravelling.

Add to that some poor signings and the ridiculous decision to put the team in short contracts its left us where we are now. I know everyone won't agree but for me good football should be no 1 priority and we let it go. We now don't have the type of player to play that way even if we wanted.

Long balls to lone strikers at home suggests cc has a different view from me.

Aldo
17-01-2011, 10:00 AM
Could not agree less. Playing football should be the Hibs way. We are not going to ever win the league but we can play attacking exciting football. That should be our mission as a club.

The ironic thing is that when people got bored with the passing football there was a clamour for a more direct style, we signed Nish and that was the start of the whole thing unravelling.

Add to that some poor signings and the ridiculous decision to put the team in short contracts its left us where we are now. I know everyone won't agree but for me good football should be no 1 priority and we let it go. We now don't have the type of player to play that way even if we wanted.

Long balls to lone strikers at home suggests cc has a different view from me.

Will agree to disagree. Sorry but If someone said to you that we would end up with 15 clean sheets or so a season and finish top 3 consistently you would be unhappy with that cos we werent playing excellent football.

I will say that yes if we win playing good footie then yeah we get all the plaudits but we need to win ugly as well.

I dont care at the moment but we scored a goal against murderwell a few weeks back with route 1 footie. I want to see us win ENDOF and if we can add some passing football then so be it...first and foremost I dont care how but we must win and the nice passing flair style footie comes 2nd.

Put it this way...play excellent passing football, get nowhere and end up in the bottom 6 season in season out or hard to beat, robust ball played up front and winning every other week....i would go for the later everytime mate.

PeeJay
17-01-2011, 10:13 AM
Could not agree less. Playing football should be the Hibs way. We are not going to ever win the league but we can play attacking exciting football. That should be our mission as a club.


Symptomatic of what is wrong at ER - no ambition, just a hazy need for a wee bit "excitement" at the football on a weekend.

Our mission has to be to win things, and as a fan I still believe we will win the league one day - maybe even the Scottish Cup - not to believe in that means I might as well give up supporting the Hibs. Your post and attitude saddens me TBH...

Reaper
17-01-2011, 10:40 AM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

:thumbsup:

Reaper
17-01-2011, 10:41 AM
We wouldn't have had to change managers so often if McLeish and Mowbray hadn't walked out, and Petrie had appointed decent replacements.

CC shouldn't be here in the first place (there were loads of better candidates), so should we just persevere even though he wasn't up to the job in the first place and hasn't done anything to prove otherwise? Is it a fluke that Craig Brown has transformed Aberdeen in less time than CC has been here?

Just wondered who??

Greentinted
17-01-2011, 10:42 AM
I would suggest it's a moot comparison as Sauzee was set up to fail.

Phil D. Rolls
17-01-2011, 10:43 AM
The fact that he leaves nobody up the park when defending corners says it all for CC's tactics. Alex Miller used to do that and it looks like the comparisons with AM don't end there.

Nail hit on head. Alex Miller was trying to keep Hibs in the top division by grinding out points, and Caldwell, well who know what he's trying to do? Certainly, a lot of people on here haven't got a scooby.

Reaper
17-01-2011, 10:44 AM
even when CC has had teams being moderately successful, the football, by in large has been fairly awful. Stuffy 4-5-1 being hard to beat with 1-0's a common scoreline. That is his stock-in-trade and that must be what our chairman thinks will fill our 20,000 stadium. No way did he build that so we could fly the first division flag from the corner.

That'd do me fine just now to be honest. I know we all want to see free flowing football but hell, we just aren't going to are we.

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 11:32 AM
That'd do me fine just now to be honest. I know we all want to see free flowing football but hell, we just aren't going to are we.

That would do me fine too if we were hard to beat, but we're anything but. As I have said before, if CC can't organise and motivate the players, what exactly can he do? The argument that he doesn't have a very good squad is not strong enough to support how poorly we are performing at the moment. CC knew exactly what he was getting into, and I'd wager anything that Billy Reid and Danny Lennon would swap squads with us right now.

We'll need to wait and see what happens over the next couple of weeks, but unless we do some amazing business over the transfer window, I can only see reason to panic. And what if CC gets as little from any new signings as he has the current squad? If we lose the next 3 games (which is perfectly possible), serious questions must be asked.

J-C
17-01-2011, 01:13 PM
That would do me fine too if we were hard to beat, but we're anything but. As I have said before, if CC can't organise and motivate the players, what exactly can he do? The argument that he doesn't have a very good squad is not strong enough to support how poorly we are performing at the moment. CC knew exactly what he was getting into, and I'd wager anything that Billy Reid and Danny Lennon would swap squads with us right now.

We'll need to wait and see what happens over the next couple of weeks, but unless we do some amazing business over the transfer window, I can only see reason to panic. And what if CC gets as little from any new signings as he has the current squad? If we lose the next 3 games (which is perfectly possible), serious questions must be asked.

It's hard to motivate a bunch of players who know their time is up at a club with no new contracts coming

Speedway
17-01-2011, 01:25 PM
Nail hit on head. Alex Miller was trying to keep Hibs in the top division by grinding out points, and Caldwell, well who know what he's trying to do? Certainly, a lot of people on here haven't got a scooby.

I think he's trying to get a game at Wigan.

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 01:48 PM
It's hard to motivate a bunch of players who know their time is up at a club with no new contracts coming

It shouldn't be. Regardless of whether these guys have desires to stay or leave, they should be playing out of their skin every week. But regardless of how hard it is, it needs to be done, or we are ****ed.

Calderwood is as much to blame as the players for our current predicament. When he came in if he had stated that our target this season was to stay in the SPL, he would have been destroyed for it, as everyone thought we would still finish in the top 6, maybe even push for Europe - why, because we thought he would bring in wonder signings in January? No, because we thought we had a squad that was capable.

Do you think the board appointed him whilst being prepared to absolve him of any blame for the rest of the season because these aren't his players? He was appointed with the remit of getting the best out of the current group, before being allowed to build for the future in the summer. Now we are heading towards relegation, top 6 seems a different universe in early January. He was been here 3 months and has not shown a single sign of any managerial ability - let's hope he pulls something spectacular out of the hat in the remaining 2 weeks of the transfer window.

Also worth considering is this - when Calderwood took over, Hearts were 3 points above us.

aberhibsfc
17-01-2011, 01:50 PM
We played well in many games under Sauzee but lost many by the odd goal. The football we are being treated to at the moment is possibly the worst I've seen.
:agree:

aberhibsfc
17-01-2011, 01:59 PM
It's hard to motivate a bunch of players who know their time is up at a club with no new contracts coming

I understand where your coming from. Although surely a professional footballer would by trying his ass off to showcase themselves in an effort to secure a contract elsewhere.

If Hibs chose not to renew these contracts and given the current economic climate they ain't going to find many potential suitors. They are not just playing for Hibs or pride, they are playing for their future and I don't think many of them appreciate anything beyond the end of their nose.

As for Calderwood not having any of his own players, we are in the 2nd half of a transfer month with no-one coming in (As usual Hibs are always ready to offload for the money but don't have a back-up plan). So if he doesn't get anyone in through this window, which he should, we can keep saying ah well he's not got any of his own players. Good tactic. When we see the first signing coming in we will learn a lot more about CC's footballing philosophy. Get it right people will start to see the light, get it wrong and people will be pulling more hair out their heads.

Is it money, stumbling blocks or does he not know where to start it's that bad.

banarc7062
17-01-2011, 01:59 PM
Yeah, fair point, but I'd argue that Sauzee had a better team at his disposal. Surely CC needs to be given time to build a team around his own players before we start shouting for his Job????

Fully support this argument, especially in view of some of the posts on here after matchdays poor performers.:agree:

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 04:11 PM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF

I'm sorry but the argument that Hughes' coaching has ruined these players for any manager coming in is complete nonsense - if it's true for us, how come Craig Brown has transformed the worst Aberdeen squad in my lifetime (including Skovdahl's team who finished bottom of the league, and Roy Aitken's who were involved in a relegation play off) around in a matter of 3 weeks, after the disaster that was Mark McGhee (whose 27% win ratio is nearly double that of CC's)? In fact the parallels between McGhee and CC transforming teams that finished in 4th place and in Europe under a different manager the previous season into relegation fodder, is really rather frightening.

By all means back the manager, I'll never knock you for that - but do me the favour of still blaming Hughes for our current predicament. If Calderwood's next 3 months are like his first, we'll be relegated and set ourselves back years.

Aldo
17-01-2011, 04:17 PM
I'm sorry but the argument that Hughes' coaching has ruined these players for any manager coming in is complete nonsense - if it's true for us, how come Craig Brown has transformed the worst Aberdeen squad in my lifetime (including Skovdahl's team who finished bottom of the league, and Roy Aitken's who were involved in a relegation play off) around in a matter of 3 weeks, after the disaster that was Mark McGhee?

By all means back the manager, I'll never knock you for that - but do me the favour of still blaming Hughes for our current predicament. If Calderwood's next 3 months are like his first, we'll be relegated and set ourselves back years.

Stevie fair dos mate. But you have to agree that we have been on the downward spiral for over a year and some responsibilty lies with Hughes. Our dimise was seen and posted on here long before CC and DA came along. He can only piss with the one hes got mate and the players (we all know) are not up for the task. He has tried to motivate and change formations around to try and get the best team but this has not worked. IS that CC fault or is he peeing in the wind.

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Stevie fair dos mate. But you have to agree that we have been on the downward spiral for over a year and some responsibilty lies with Hughes. Our dimise was seen and posted on here long before CC and DA came along. He can only piss with the one hes got mate and the players (we all know) are not up for the task. He has tried to motivate and change formations around to try and get the best team but this has not worked. IS that CC fault or is he peeing in the wind.

Obviously the rot started with Hughes, in fact 2010 must be one of the worst years ever in terms of number of losses, perverse considering that we qualified for Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I was far from unhappy when Hughes left and I can't state enough how much I am not expecting miracles from CC - but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to have us well organised and hard to beat after 3 months in the job, even if it means strangling games completely and scrapping for draws - somehting that even the poorest of teams manage to do regularly, especially in the SPL.

The difference was that even during the darkest times under Hughes, we had goals in us. Obviously the most significant factor on that front is Stokes' departure, but we are now at 3 games without a goal and have failed to score in half of CC's games in charge, whilst going behind in something like 9 of his 13 matches. That is relegation material.

I thought that given his record at Northampton that we would be well drilled at the back and have a good few set piece routines sorted but I reckon that we've scored twice from corners in the last year (Ibrox this season and Parkhead last). Also, never mind the fact that he can't get our poorer players to perfrom better, the more recent performances from Riordan, have been dire - his form was better under Yogi.

I will continue to support the team, I am a season ticket holder and will never desert Hibs. I always try to see the positive in everything at ER, in fact by many folks' criteria on here I am a happy clapper. But I am terrified - and with very good reason IMO.

HibeeSince85
17-01-2011, 08:14 PM
I understand where your coming from. Although surely a professional footballer would by trying his ass off to showcase themselves in an effort to secure a contract elsewhere.

If Hibs chose not to renew these contracts and given the current economic climate they ain't going to find many potential suitors. They are not just playing for Hibs or pride, they are playing for their future and I don't think many of them appreciate anything beyond the end of their nose.

As for Calderwood not having any of his own players, we are in the 2nd half of a transfer month with no-one coming in (As usual Hibs are always ready to offload for the money but don't have a back-up plan). So if he doesn't get anyone in through this window, which he should, we can keep saying ah well he's not got any of his own players. Good tactic. When we see the first signing coming in we will learn a lot more about CC's footballing philosophy. Get it right people will start to see the light, get it wrong and people will be pulling more hair out their heads.

Is it money, stumbling blocks or does he not know where to start it's that bad.

Calderwood was saying again today that he hopes to have players in and they have broke down again, every time we talk about transfers it's always about us missing out or something coming up.....not really how I was expecting things to be going to stop a team needing new players so badly.

I'm not expecting anything from him at the moment to be honest but i'm sure he knows where to start, surely, why is it that i think it comes down to money!

Reaper
17-01-2011, 08:30 PM
Calderwood was saying again today that he hopes to have players in and they have broke down again, every time we talk about transfers it's always about us missing out or something coming up.....not really how I was expecting things to be going to stop a team needing new players so badly.

I'm not expecting anything from him at the moment to be honest but i'm sure he knows where to start, surely, why is it that i think it comes down to money!

I suppose in a way it shows he is going after players who still have a worth to other clubs rather than also rans PLUS he's obviously not prepared to laden the club with players for the sake of it, he's biding his time and getting players in that will improve the team and the club. Frustrating yes but he'll get bodies in soon enough I reckon.

Aldo
17-01-2011, 08:32 PM
Obviously the rot started with Hughes, in fact 2010 must be one of the worst years ever in terms of number of losses, perverse considering that we qualified for Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I was far from unhappy when Hughes left and I can't state enough how much I am not expecting miracles from CC - but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to have us well organised and hard to beat after 3 months in the job, even if it means strangling games completely and scrapping for draws - somehting that even the poorest of teams manage to do regularly, especially in the SPL.

The difference was that even during the darkest times under Hughes, we had goals in us. Obviously the most significant factor on that front is Stokes' departure, but we are now at 3 games without a goal and have failed to score in half of CC's games in charge, whilst going behind in something like 9 of his 13 matches. That is relegation material.

I thought that given his record at Northampton that we would be well drilled at the back and have a good few set piece routines sorted but I reckon that we've scored twice from corners in the last year (Ibrox this season and Parkhead last). Also, never mind the fact that he can't get our poorer players to perfrom better, the more recent performances from Riordan, have been dire - his form was better under Yogi.

I will continue to support the team, I am a season ticket holder and will never desert Hibs. I always try to see the positive in everything at ER, in fact by many folks' criteria on here I am a happy clapper. But I am terrified - and with very good reason IMO.

Mate there are a lot of folk on here not happy with CC but he has to be given time. Its obvious that the players are not up for the job and he knows this...his problem is how to fix it.. He has tried changing formations and players but he still gets the same...a spineless gutless performance. No one seems to give a toss. I feel really bad for CC and think both he and DA will come good. For me the aim is not to get relegated and take it from there. Get players in he can trust and will do the job he wants.

I have been watching Hibs since 1978 (auld twat I know) and like you will continue to support them through thick and thin. GG

Stevie Reid
17-01-2011, 08:40 PM
Mate there are a lot of folk on here not happy with CC but he has to be given time. Its obvious that the players are not up for the job and he knows this...his problem is how to fix it.. He has tried changing formations and players but he still gets the same...a spineless gutless performance. No one seems to give a toss. I feel really bad for CC and think both he and DA will come good. For me the aim is not to get relegated and take it from there. Get players in he can trust and will do the job he wants.

I have been watching Hibs since 1978 (auld twat I know) and like you will continue to support them through thick and thin. GG

Good on you mate. Ultimately we both want the same thing, fingers crossed we get it.

HibeeSince85
17-01-2011, 08:41 PM
I suppose in a way it shows he is going after players who still have a worth to other clubs rather than also rans PLUS he's obviously not prepared to laden the club with players for the sake of it, he's biding his time and getting players in that will improve the team and the club. Frustrating yes but he'll get bodies in soon enough I reckon.

I hope so, they're needed! Can't help but feel things are going too flat at Easter Road.

ScottB
17-01-2011, 10:51 PM
The comparison between Sauzee and CC is more obvious than many might think.

Both took over long after the rot had set in results wise, the only difference is I suspect CC's experience mean the Board is more happy to wait and see what happens, rather than panic sacking Sauzee.

nortonhibby
17-01-2011, 11:12 PM
If we were dithering in a mid-table slot then I would agree it is too early to be considering such a move - however, being second bottom or bottom is unacceptable as would be relegation. We don't have a world-beating team but they can be made to play better than currently is the case - Yogi got us 4th and a European spot, whatever spin some people try to put on it, that is a fact: CC should be doing better or at least maintaining the status quo. As a club we have to be asking: when do we pull the brake on this current slide? For me a defeat tomorrow at Ayr would be reason enough to let him go - defeat to Ayr United is unacceptable. I actually hope that we win and that CC turns the thing around, but we have a tough series of games coming up and he has to start showing what he is capable of NOW.

We have to remain calm we will beat St Mirren and Hamilton in the games that we have to play them whether we win or not tomorrow does not matter we need to focus on survival in the league And look forward to next season:flag:

SmokieJoe
17-01-2011, 11:24 PM
FFS CC and DA have been left with a pile of pish and herited a squad from the all enspiring Hughes....sorry but Hughes has left the biggest pile of pish since Duffy and is the one to blame for our prediciment.

CC should be given time and for me as long as we dont go down then he should be backed to the hilt.

Stability is the name of the game and CC should be given time to bring his own players in..

ENDOF
:top marks
Stop slating the man ffs, he has allegedy given the board the back me or sack me in th transfer market speach. 3 months in and ppl are asking for CC's head?
Rediculously shortsighted!

Beefster
18-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Obviously the rot started with Hughes, in fact 2010 must be one of the worst years ever in terms of number of losses, perverse considering that we qualified for Europe.

Don't get me wrong, I was far from unhappy when Hughes left and I can't state enough how much I am not expecting miracles from CC - but I don't think it's too much to ask for him to have us well organised and hard to beat after 3 months in the job, even if it means strangling games completely and scrapping for draws - somehting that even the poorest of teams manage to do regularly, especially in the SPL.

The difference was that even during the darkest times under Hughes, we had goals in us. Obviously the most significant factor on that front is Stokes' departure, but we are now at 3 games without a goal and have failed to score in half of CC's games in charge, whilst going behind in something like 9 of his 13 matches. That is relegation material.

I thought that given his record at Northampton that we would be well drilled at the back and have a good few set piece routines sorted but I reckon that we've scored twice from corners in the last year (Ibrox this season and Parkhead last). Also, never mind the fact that he can't get our poorer players to perfrom better, the more recent performances from Riordan, have been dire - his form was better under Yogi.

I will continue to support the team, I am a season ticket holder and will never desert Hibs. I always try to see the positive in everything at ER, in fact by many folks' criteria on here I am a happy clapper. But I am terrified - and with very good reason IMO.

Calderwood has been in charge for 13 games so far. 2 wins, 3 draws and 8 losses. 15% win, 23% draw, 62% loss.

In those games we've scored 13 goals and conceded 22. That's an average goal scored per match of 1.00 and average conceded of 1.69.

No-one would argue that that's poor. Very poor.

Last season, Hughes took us on a run of 15 games where the record was 2 wins, 2 draws and 11 losses. 13% win, 13% draw, 74% loss. We scored 16 goals and conceded 32. Average scored was 1.06 whilst average conceded was 2.13.

This season, Hughes was in charge for 10 competitive games. 1 win, 2 draws and 7 losses. 10% win, 20% draw, 70% loss. We scored 9 goals and conceded 21. Average scored was 0.90 and average conceded was 2.10.

Some will argue that I've been selective with the run of games last season. Yes, I have. It busts the myth that Hughes isn't responsible for the current situation though. We're not scoring less goals under Calderwood than we were under Hughes in the later stages of his time in charge but we are conceding less. We're not winning less, we're not drawing less but we are losing less.

Calderwood may not have been able to arrest the decline but he's not responsible for it.

Dr Jimmy
18-01-2011, 09:46 AM
I have been less than impressed with CC's start, but after reading his recent interview at least he appears to have identified the need for a leader on the park and his comments about players not tackling and failing to win their battles is spot on.
If he can bring in players to improve these areas we can only get better. Give him a chance to fix the obvious problems in this window and look to build from there.

PeeJay
18-01-2011, 09:56 AM
Calderwood may not have been able to arrest the decline but he's not responsible for it.

Well-argued post. However, I feel he is the man in charge and he is responsible: the moment he took on the job he bercame responsible - he says himself (in interviews) it is his team - by that he means he is in charge! What went before is irrelevant IMO, he has been brought in to change things not to maintain the status quo. I would also advise against the current belief amongst many posters on here that the players CC may bring in at some time will be the answer to all our problems: Mixu, Collins and Hughes all brought in players and almost without exception they have all been dissed at some stage after the manager left (some before) as being the reason why we are where we are.

Maybe it is me, but what is different with Calderwood: why should his players (some posters are calling for an entire team to be replaced) prove to be any different from what has happened previously?

I understand many of the frustrations, but I feel we are in danger of failing to face reality by saying give him time, everything will be OK when he brings in his own team and so on. I believe - even with these players - we should be performing better: why are we not doing so? We need change now and we must win this evening - anything else is a disaster. Here's hoping we do so!

Stevie Reid
18-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Calderwood has been in charge for 13 games so far. 2 wins, 3 draws and 8 losses. 15% win, 23% draw, 62% loss.

In those games we've scored 13 goals and conceded 22. That's an average goal scored per match of 1.00 and average conceded of 1.69.

No-one would argue that that's poor. Very poor.

Last season, Hughes took us on a run of 15 games where the record was 2 wins, 2 draws and 11 losses. 13% win, 13% draw, 74% loss. We scored 16 goals and conceded 32. Average scored was 1.06 whilst average conceded was 2.13.

This season, Hughes was in charge for 10 competitive games. 1 win, 2 draws and 7 losses. 10% win, 20% draw, 70% loss. We scored 9 goals and conceded 21. Average scored was 0.90 and average conceded was 2.10.

Some will argue that I've been selective with the run of games last season. Yes, I have. It busts the myth that Hughes isn't responsible for the current situation though. We're not scoring less goals under Calderwood than we were under Hughes in the later stages of his time in charge but we are conceding less. We're not winning less, we're not drawing less but we are losing less.

Calderwood may not have been able to arrest the decline but he's not responsible for it.

You make some very good points, but regardless of who is responsible (I still believ that blaming Hughes entirely is unfair - though the stats you utilised are clearly damning) CC was supposed to improve us. He certainly has not thus far.

JimBHibees
18-01-2011, 11:18 AM
You make some very good points, but regardless of who is responsible (I still believ that blaming Hughes entirely is unfair - though the stats you utilised are clearly damning) CC was supposed to improve us. He certainly has not thus far.

At least he is honest and self aware enough to admit that though. Hughes would have been blaming the weather, global warming, Tunisian crisis for how bad we were doing. He needs time however he also needs to win tonight as unfair as it may be it has the makings of a hallmark result if we were to lose.

Stevie Reid
18-01-2011, 11:23 AM
At least he is honest and self aware enough to admit that though. Hughes would have been blaming the weather, global warming, Tunisian crisis for how bad we were doing. He needs time however he also needs to win tonight as unfair as it may be it has the makings of a hallmark result if we were to lose.

Jim Duffy was forthright and honest in interviews as well.

Whilst humility and not wanting to insult supporters' intelligence by stating the obvious is a decent quality to have, it means nothing if he can't turn things around very quickly.

JimBHibees
18-01-2011, 11:27 AM
Jim Duffy was forthright and honest in interviews as well.

Whilst humility and not wanting to insult supporters' intelligence by stating the obvious is a decent quality to have, it means nothing if he can't turn things around very quickly.

I would say though that you have more chance of sorting out a problem if you know there is one in the first place.

Expecting Rain
18-01-2011, 11:28 AM
At least he is honest and self aware enough to admit that though. Hughes would have been blaming the weather, global warming, Tunisian crisis for how bad we were doing. He needs time however he also needs to win tonight as unfair as it may be it has the makings of a hallmark result if we were to lose.

I agree Jim, tonights game is a cup final for Hibs, a real chance to ressurect an absymal period, there`s no excuses on paper we should have enough decent players if they are interested to beat Ayr and then take care of St Mirren at home, should we fail then we might have to rely on the keenest rather than the best to get us out of this mess and that won`t be pretty.

Stevie Reid
18-01-2011, 02:31 PM
I would say though that you have more chance of sorting out a problem if you know there is one in the first place.

That seems rational. But then if you keep acknowledging that there's a problem and nothing changes, it makes you look incompetant.

blackpoolhibs
18-01-2011, 02:40 PM
I would say though that you have more chance of sorting out a problem if you know there is one in the first place.

We keep employing managers who know there's a problem, but have to wait on each and every one of them to get their own team before we are allowed to judge them. What happened to managers managing with what they have?

JimBHibees
18-01-2011, 05:01 PM
That seems rational. But then if you keep acknowledging that there's a problem and nothing changes, it makes you look incompetant.

He will have failed if he doesnt resolve it that is for sure however he needs to be given the chance and resources to fail with his own team and not someone else's.

JimBHibees
18-01-2011, 05:08 PM
We keep employing managers who know there's a problem, but have to wait on each and every one of them to get their own team before we are allowed to judge them. What happened to managers managing with what they have?

I dont think anyones saying that up till now it has been successful even CC has admitted he is disappointed with how it has gone however he needs to be given a decent chance to change what are probably quite deep rooted problems. A couple of wins and a few new faces will go along to way to changing the mood and give him some breathing space from halfwit fans putting up a banner on a live tv game that he should be sacked. :rolleyes: