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Cropley10
15-01-2011, 03:28 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

gorgie_harp
15-01-2011, 03:31 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

Thin end of wedge.:agree::tin hat:

HIBERNIAN-0762
15-01-2011, 03:31 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?


EH?....:confused:

Alex Trager
15-01-2011, 03:52 PM
Someone had a banner in the east today saying Petrie splash the cash or quit

hibsfan
15-01-2011, 04:08 PM
And he was right too - but as usual gets a hard time from the happy clappers that dominate this forum. Petrie's time is up - as is calderwoods - you could give that lad £100M to spend and he still wouldn't think up any game plan or tactics.

Hibs need to replace at least 9 of today's starting 11 otherwise we are down

greenlex
15-01-2011, 04:15 PM
If it wasn't Falkirk it was certainly close to him.

steviehibsleith
15-01-2011, 04:16 PM
You have been a good businessmen in giving us a nice training complex/academy, a good stadium and a nice financial position. But it is vitally important you now spend some money on the product - players of a reasonable quality. If not it will all go pete tong and we will yet again be in the first division and that will hurt you where it hurts you most in the pocket.. And remembering the last time i dont want it again

basehibby
15-01-2011, 04:42 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

Thin end of the wedge - Rod HAS done some sterling work over the piece but it has not been without flaw. Typical of the negative side of his reign has been the sort of penny pinching which John Collins cited as his reason for quitting (eg expecting an experienced SPL/Championship left back to take a pay CUT for the priviledge of replacing David Murphy).

It's my feeling that this pattern of perpetual thrift re the football team has lead us directly to where we are now - staring at the prospect of 1st division football - and we can't afford to see it continued.

Leithenhibby
15-01-2011, 04:52 PM
And he was right too - but as usual gets a hard time from the happy clappers that dominate this forum. Petrie's time is up - as is calderwoods - you could give that lad £100M to spend and he still wouldn't think up any game plan or tactics.

Hibs need to replace at least 9 of today's starting 11 otherwise we are down

Utter tripe .. :wink: As long as STF is the owner RP will be in charge at ER :agree:

new malkyhib
15-01-2011, 05:00 PM
Utter tripe .. :wink: As long as STF is the owner RP will be in charge at ER :agree:

So when does Petrie look at himself and his role in where we are now then?

I often wonder what the terms of reference are in Petrie's contract, and if it includes any reference to the team performance ON the park:confused:

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Utter tripe .. :wink: As long as STF is the owner RP will be in charge at ER :agree:

Maybe Hibsfan is going to organise a buyout and then his plans will come to fruition. Its really easy to do apparently.

Once the consortium has concluded the deal with STF I will offer my full support.

Go for it Hibsfan.

greenlex
15-01-2011, 05:04 PM
So when does Petrie look at himself and his role in where we are now then?

I often wonder what the terms of reference are in Petrie's contract, and if it includes any reference to the team performance ON the park:confused:
He bulleted the manager who is largely responsible for the players and our current position. I think he did look after a few games of this season. Lets let the new man get his team together and take it from there. The calling for Petrie to splash the cash when he has already done it in every window possible so far and with the new window open is premature. If there are no new signings that improve us that would be time enough to question the cash policy.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:06 PM
Maybe Hibsfan is going to organise a buyout and then his plans will come to fruition. Its really easy to do apparently.

Once the consortium has concluded the deal with STF I will offer my full support.

Go for it Hibsfan.

What is it they say, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit??

Will we just continue with this Board, this 'strategy' and the same operating procedures - where Rod rules the roost - when we're in Div 1??

Interesting times ahead me thinks. Doesn't matter how big his ego is, getting relegated will reflect very badly on Mr Petrie... It will reflect very badly on ST sales, income, the balance sheet and everything else. It will loom as a very large stain on his otherwise impeccable CV.

Sir David Gray
15-01-2011, 05:07 PM
If it wasn't Falkirk it was certainly close to him.

:confused: Do you mean me?

Definitely wasn't me and I didn't even see this banner.

Beefster
15-01-2011, 05:08 PM
What is it they say, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit??

Will we just continue with this Board, this 'strategy' and the same operating procedures - where Rod rules the roost - when we're in Div 1??

Interesting times ahead me thinks. Doesn't matter how big his ego is, getting relegated will reflect very badly on Mr Petrie... It will reflect very badly on ST sales, income, the balance sheet and everything else. It will loom as a very large stain on his otherwise impeccable CV.

If we get relegated, he'll have to stand down.

I don't think that there will be any massive increase in investment in the team in an attempt to avoid relegation though. Rodders is more likely to decrease investment, just in case we're in the First Division next year.

joebakerforever
15-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Thin end of the wedge - Rod HAS done some sterling work over the piece but it has not been without flaw. Typical of the negative side of his reign has been the sort of penny pinching which John Collins cited as his reason for quitting (eg expecting an experienced SPL/Championship left back to take a pay CUT for the priviledge of replacing David Murphy).

It's my feeling that this pattern of perpetual thrift re the football team has lead us directly to where we are now - staring at the prospect of 1st division football - and we can't afford to see it continued.

:top marks

However I think there is no chance of Petrie either splashing the cash or quitting as self-interest will always be his primary concern :no way:

greenlex
15-01-2011, 05:12 PM
:confused: Do you mean me?

Definitely wasn't me and I didn't even see this banner.

Was it not behind you? Apologies mate.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:13 PM
If we get relegated, he'll have to stand down.

I don't think that there will be any massive increase in investment in the team in an attempt to avoid relegation though. Rodders is more likely to decrease investment, just in case we're in the First Division next year.

:agree::agree: of that I sadly have no doubt...

Thing is he won't stand down. No chance.

Leithenhibby
15-01-2011, 05:19 PM
So when does Petrie look at himself and his role in where we are now then?

I often wonder what the terms of reference are in Petrie's contract, and if it includes any reference to the team performance ON the park:confused:


I tend to look at RP as STF right hand man at ER, just like Nick Hewer is for Lord Sugar :cool2:

STF would have to call that one am afraid. :agree:

Sir David Gray
15-01-2011, 05:20 PM
Was it not behind you? Apologies mate.

Doubt if it would have been behind me. I have two or three women directly behind me who stand up and clap at the end of every single game, no matter how bad the game has been.

It possibly was behind me as I didn't really look back too often but I certainly didn't notice anything.

Fife-Hibee
15-01-2011, 05:20 PM
:confused: Do you mean me?

Definitely wasn't me and I didn't even see this banner.

Com on man ' Admit it :greengrin

new malkyhib
15-01-2011, 05:23 PM
He bulleted the manager who is largely responsible for the players and our current position. I think he did look after a few games of this season. Lets let the new man get his team together and take it from there. The calling for Petrie to splash the cash when he has already done it in every window possible so far and with the new window open is premature. If there are no new signings that improve us that would be time enough to question the cash policy.

Premature? You are joking, right? 15 days into the transfer window, no positive sign of anybody half-decent coming in, £1m taken in fees for Bamba and Stokes, and in the process two of the higher earners off the wage bill, a team that can't buy a win, a manager who persists with a long-ball tactic into a lightweight forward line and a club that's staring down the barrel of relegation...

Do you not think the Hibs fans deserve better?

And your point is off-topic anyway - which was when does Petrie himself accept some culpability for the club's position, and what precisely does his gaffer STF expect of him in terms of the way the FOOTBALL TEAM is limping along in the directionless way they are just now?

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:24 PM
And what cash is this that we would splash? Do people imagine Petrie is sitting in his office surrounded by piles of cash he has hoarded up over the years?

Secondly, Petrie is a shareholder, he can't simply quit his involvement with the club. Unless anyone fancies buying his 10% or so stake in the club?

Sir David Gray
15-01-2011, 05:25 PM
Com on man ' Admit it :greengrin

Nah, it wasn't me, honest!

Banners aren't really my style to be honest. If I wanted Petrie out now, I would be holding a demonstration at the back of the West Stand tonight and parking my wheelchair in front of his car. :greengrin

Beefster
15-01-2011, 05:26 PM
And what cash is this that we would splash? Do people imagine Petrie is sitting in his office surrounded by piles of cash he has hoarded up over the years?

Secondly, Petrie is a shareholder, he can't simply quit his involvement with the club. Unless anyone fancies buying his 10% or so stake in the club?

You do know that we don't necessarily have to have the cash on hand to buy a player, right?

Rodders is a shareholder. That doesn't mean that he needs to be the chairman.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:27 PM
And what cash is this that we would splash? Do people imagine Petrie is sitting in his office surrounded by piles of cash he has hoarded up over the years?

Secondly, Petrie is a shareholder, he can't simply quit his involvement with the club. Unless anyone fancies buying his 10% or so stake in the club?

I didn't realise that if you were a 10% shareholder you had to continue to work for the Club :rolleyes:

PaulSmith
15-01-2011, 05:27 PM
And what cash is this that we would splash? Do people imagine Petrie is sitting in his office surrounded by piles of cash he has hoarded up over the years?

Secondly, Petrie is a shareholder, he can't simply quit his involvement with the club. Unless anyone fancies buying his 10% or so stake in the club?

How can Petrie not give up his position and not keep his shares?

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:28 PM
Premature? You are joking, right? 15 days into the transfer window, no positive sign of anybody half-decent coming in, £1m taken in fees for Bamba and Stokes, and in the process two of the higher earners off the wage bill, a team that can't buy a win, a manager who persists with a long-ball tactic into a lightweight forward line and a club that's staring down the barrel of relegation...

Do you not think the Hibs fans deserve better?

And your point is off-topic anyway - which was when does Petrie himself accept some culpability for the club's position, and what precisely does his gaffer STF expect of him in terms of the way the FOOTBALL TEAM is limping along in the directionless way they are just now?

To be fair, a number of comments from CC and general rumours suggest that the club have been foiled in a number of signing attempts so far, just because the club may want to buy players doesn't make it happen, especially in January.

new malkyhib
15-01-2011, 05:28 PM
And what cash is this that we would splash? Do people imagine Petrie is sitting in his office surrounded by piles of cash he has hoarded up over the years?

Secondly, Petrie is a shareholder, he can't simply quit his involvement with the club. Unless anyone fancies buying his 10% or so stake in the club?

Not so - where would be the conflict lie in him quitting as CEO and retaining his shareholding?

Farmer owns the other 90% of the equity, and we're constantly told he's not involved in the day-to-day running of the club.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:31 PM
To be fair, a number of comments from CC and general rumours suggest that the club have been foiled in a number of signing attempts so far, just because the club may want to buy players doesn't make it happen, especially in January.

100% "On Message" :wink:

Will be fascinating to see who doesn't arrive by 1 Feb.

The poorest Hibs team in years - sold two of our best players this season already. No quality left. Staring relegation in the face.

Money talks. Bull**** walks.

PaulSmith
15-01-2011, 05:31 PM
To be fair, a number of comments from CC and general rumours suggest that the club have been foiled in a number of signing attempts so far, just because the club may want to buy players doesn't make it happen, especially in January.

I know, I'm sure the reason isn't financial related though. Just other stumbling blocks.

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:31 PM
I didn't realise that if you were a 10% shareholder you had to continue to work for the Club :rolleyes:


How can Petrie not give up his position and not keep his shares?

He could, if he should choose to obviously, though whether he would want to entrust a substantial shareholding to someone else's direction I'm not sure.

The point being, he can't be forced out like a manager with some banners and booing. Quite what people expect to happen after he leaves I don't know.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:35 PM
[QUOTE=ScottB;2692157Quite what people expect to happen after he leaves I don't know.[/QUOTE]

Things to stop getting worse? :dunno:

I mean with his record of appointing managers, sooner or later he's going to have give up. Maybe his ego is just too big :dunno:

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:36 PM
100% "On Message" :wink:

Will be fascinating to see who doesn't arrive by 1 Feb.

The poorest Hibs team in years - sold two of our best players this season already. No quality left. Staring relegation in the face.

Money talks. Bull**** walks.

Where is the proof that we 100% haven't tried to sign anyone? There isn't.

As you say, we have to wait and see. If by the 1st of February we have signed nobody, then I will be p*ssed.

Hibee Daz
15-01-2011, 05:38 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

What good is a new stand if there isn't going to be enough bodies to fill it because the product on the park is utter dross?

I certainly wouldn't argue that in practically every aspect of our club the board have done wonders, apart from the most important one making sure that we have a half decent team on the park!

It will be interesting to see how many of the boards ever so patient backers will turn on them once we are in the 1st division.
I'm sick to death of hearing east mains is state of the art, the new stand looks amazing and we have the best balance sheets in Scotland.:blah:

Quite frankly I couldn't give a **** if we have debt so long as it's completely manageable and we have a decent enough squad that can fulfill the boards promise of us competing for Europe and the latter stages of cups every year!

Until we're out of the ****in mire, I will continue to take umbradge with the monkeys that grind the organ and if that means no banana's for them then in the not so distant future then so be it.

new malkyhib
15-01-2011, 05:41 PM
[QUOTE=ScottB;2692157]He could, if he should choose to obviously, though whether he would want to entrust a substantial shareholding to someone else's direction I'm not sure.

The point being, he can't be forced out like a manager with some banners and booing. Quite what people expect to happen after he leaves I don't know.[/QUOTE

Which is exactly the point some of us are making, Scott. He wouldn't have to give his shareholding up either - and once again he could sell them on if he wanted to...

If he did go, i'd expect a more positive guy at the helm who talks the club up - Pat Nevin's been mentioned in dispatches - that would be a step in the right direction IMO.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:43 PM
"Petrie - buy two decent players, avoid relegation or quit"

Just a thought?

greenlex
15-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Premature? You are joking, right? 15 days into the transfer window, no positive sign of anybody half-decent coming in, £1m taken in fees for Bamba and Stokes, and in the process two of the higher earners off the wage bill, a team that can't buy a win, a manager who persists with a long-ball tactic into a lightweight forward line and a club that's staring down the barrel of relegation...

Do you not think the Hibs fans deserve better?

And your point is off-topic anyway - which was when does Petrie himself accept some culpability for the club's position, and what precisely does his gaffer STF expect of him in terms of the way the FOOTBALL TEAM is limping along in the directionless way they are just now?

No I am not joking. The bloodletting is premature. The window is still open and we have actually been trying to bring players in in case you havent noticed.
I am not of topic either. Petrie has accepted that the last two if not three managers could not progress the club on the park and parted company with them. If that is not accepting the call for appointing them in the first place to have not worked out then I dont know what is. Is` that not accepting some culpability?Do you need to blame someone and ask him to resign?
Maybe getting on with the rebuilding rather than being aloof and untouchable as you are alluding to is better than just saying enough is enough and resigning leaving the next guy the mess we are at the moment.

A year ago today things were acceptable were they not?
If Hughes target was to get us European football and a decent cup run he only failed on one front. It would have been harsh to sack him after our league placement of last year. Enough was enough after the poor run continued this season.
Calderwood needs time to assemble his team. He wont do that by signing for signings sake. He needs to sign the right players either short term to keep us up and build on that or start building this window and hope its enough to keep us up too.I am sure STF and him speak regularly and STF is acutely aware of where we are on the park at the moment.
Now is not the time to panic.(or resign)

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=ScottB;2692157]He could, if he should choose to obviously, though whether he would want to entrust a substantial shareholding to someone else's direction I'm not sure.

The point being, he can't be forced out like a manager with some banners and booing. Quite what people expect to happen after he leaves I don't know.[/QUOTE

Which is exactly the point some of us are making, Scott. He wouldn't have to give his shareholding up either - and once again he could sell them on if he wanted to...

If he did go, i'd expect a more positive guy at the helm who talks the club up - Pat Nevin's been mentioned in dispatches - that would be a step in the right direction IMO.

Why on Earth would Pat Nevin want the job, and what qualifications or experience does he have that makes him suitable for the job, beyond folk quite liking what he says on Sportscene?

Director of Football or something, fair enough, but running the whole show? No thanks.

Goal, Archibald
15-01-2011, 05:45 PM
It's vital that players are not just brought in for the sake of it, they have to be the right players - not just in ability, but in mentality.

What I would give for someone in the middle of the park who just went about his business, breaking things up and playing the simple ball to someone in green and white. The Celtic midfield today were never in a game - which is very poor show.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:46 PM
[QUOTE=new malkyhib;2692182]

Why on Earth would Pat Nevin want the job, and what qualifications or experience does he have that makes him suitable for the job, beyond folk quite liking what he says on Sportscene?

Director of Football or something, fair enough, but running the whole show? No thanks.

Wasn't Pat Chief Exec of Motherwell FC previously?

down the slope
15-01-2011, 05:46 PM
I copied this off the bounce so apologies for that but it hit the nail on the head "
When Hibs board want rid of a manager they don't just make a quick simple decision and get someone else in, they let the club run down by not giving that manager anything like the money they could. At which point fans start moaning like **** about the manager. And the board pretend to react to "pressure by the fans" and sack the manager. I think it's pretty clear that's the policy, and why on earth would they change it when it's worked very well in terms of them never being under any pressure. The fact that it damages the club means nothing to them and they're so ignorant of football that they actually think that the saving of money means this works out well. Never mind the falling crowds, growing disillusionment, and vast amounts of apathy which this has generated.

We're becoming an Edinburgh Kilmarnock. "

new malkyhib
15-01-2011, 05:47 PM
[QUOTE=new malkyhib;2692182]

Why on Earth would Pat Nevin want the job, and what qualifications or experience does he have that makes him suitable for the job, beyond folk quite liking what he says on Sportscene?

Director of Football or something, fair enough, but running the whole show? No thanks.

Maybe not as CEO, but we certainly need someone who "appears" to have a passion for Hibs in some role at the club, because the suits that populate the top-heavy and expensive Board at ER aren't cutting it IMO

ScottB
15-01-2011, 05:47 PM
[QUOTE=ScottB;2692188]

Wasn't Pat Chief Exec of Motherwell FC previously?

I thought he was some sort of Director of Football there?

If he was CEO there, wasn't it at the time they spent themselves into administration?

smurf
15-01-2011, 05:52 PM
Not interested in whether they are trying to do something....

Just do it.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 05:52 PM
[QUOTE=Cropley10;2692194]

I thought he was some sort of Director of Football there?

If he was CEO there, wasn't it at the time they spent themselves into administration?

Unfortunately Pat didn't have a car-park to sell nor a crop of players who could fetch top-dollar.

But he's certainly as qualified, if not more so, than Mr Petrie - an Aberdeen fan and an Accountant.

Gala Foxes
15-01-2011, 05:55 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.

The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

everyone that goes to Easter Road just now is looking pretty isolated in our super big empty stadium.

As the Leicester fans sang at The Riverside last season "they're here, they're there, they're every ******ing where Empty Seats, Empty Seats!"

Crowds are plummeting - needs swift action now

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 06:00 PM
What is it they say, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit??

Will we just continue with this Board, this 'strategy' and the same operating procedures - where Rod rules the roost - when we're in Div 1??

Interesting times ahead me thinks. Doesn't matter how big his ego is, getting relegated will reflect very badly on Mr Petrie... It will reflect very badly on ST sales, income, the balance sheet and everything else. It will loom as a very large stain on his otherwise impeccable CV.

Ok I was sarcastic because I have ni idea what all these "petrie spash the cash or quit" means?

We have no cash to splash. STF owns Hibs lock stock and barrell. STF WANTS Petrie at the helm therefore Petrie stays. In order to change that you need to buy out STF.

There, is that plain enough?

Hibee Daz
15-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Not interested in whether they are trying to do something....

Just do it.

:agree:

HNA6
15-01-2011, 06:25 PM
Doubt if it would have been behind me. I have two or three women directly behind me who stand up and clap at the end of every single game, no matter how bad the game has been.

It possibly was behind me as I didn't really look back too often but I certainly didn't notice anything.So your on the fence wi this one ? :greengrin

greenlex
15-01-2011, 06:28 PM
Not interested in whether they are trying to do something....

Just do it.

Thats part of our (the fans) problem though Smurf. We want it now.

If its a case of three forward and two back the two back is a problem. Patience is what is required. I have been a Hibby long enough with the disappointments that that comes with that to know our time should be now. A wee step back and a bit of perspective and I become a lot calmer.
With the right manager and group of players we have the infrastructure in place RIGHT NOW to kick on and be as successful as we are set up to be.
The right players are key as the manager has pedigree. Get the wrong guys in and we could be set back 5 years or more. Relegation is a real possibility, The board know this they are not stupid. They will be progressing things behind the scenes. Come next month time will tell if its enough.

SRHibs
15-01-2011, 06:30 PM
And he was right too - but as usual gets a hard time from the happy clappers that dominate this forum. Petrie's time is up - as is calderwoods - you could give that lad £100M to spend and he still wouldn't think up any game plan or tactics.

Hibs need to replace at least 9 of today's starting 11 otherwise we are down

"Happy clappers that dominate this forum".

Are we using the same forum? lmao.
Although with a negative outlook like this: "Hibs need to replace at least 9 of today's starting 11 otherwise we are down", then I suppose even the pessimists on this board look positive in comparison to you.:cool2::wink:

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=ScottB;2692200]

Unfortunately Pat didn't have a car-park to sell nor a crop of players who could fetch top-dollar.

But he's certainly as qualified, if not more so, than Mr Petrie - an Aberdeen fan and an Accountant.

Riiiiggghhhhtttt?????

So basically making financial commitments that you have absolutely no chance of making, ruining the livelihoods of a number of professional players, staff which impacted dreadfully on their families (not to mention the local businesses) and driving a local club to the brink of extinction should NOT be held against you because you DONT have a car park???? Therefore he should be considered a serious candidate?

:hmmm:

Jamie
15-01-2011, 07:20 PM
I know there has been some questions as to whether Paw broon was approached for the Hibs job. I can confirm he was and turned us down. Paw Broon was approached and was not interested. The reason, simple! Rod Petrie.

Clear evidence of the damage Petrie is doing. Yogi also told me that both Collins and Mixu advised him strongly not to take the job due to Petrie's interference. :agree:

Sir David Gray
15-01-2011, 07:27 PM
So your on the fence wi this one ? :greengrin

:greengrin What I meant was, on the odd occasion that I looked round today I didn't see any banner but I would be surprised if it was the people directly behind me who owned the banner as these two or three women stand up and applaud every single player off the pitch at the end of every single game, no matter how bad the game has been.

Happy clapping doesn't really do them justice to be honest.

However, I didn't look round too often so I suppose it is possible that the banner may have been on show behind me during the time that I was watching the game.

It definitely wasn't mine though, I can safely say that! :wink:

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 07:30 PM
Ok I was sarcastic because I have ni idea what all these "petrie spash the cash or quit" means?

We have no cash to splash. STF owns Hibs lock stock and barrell. STF WANTS Petrie at the helm therefore Petrie stays. In order to change that you need to buy out STF.

There, is that plain enough?

There will be a lot less cash when we're playing Partick Thistle, not Rangers, that much I do know.

STF didn't get where he is today by being sentimental.

PaulSmith
15-01-2011, 07:33 PM
I know there has been some questions as to whether Paw broon was approached for the Hibs job. I can confirm he was and turned us down. Paw Broon was approached and was not interested. The reason, simple! Rod Petrie.

Clear evidence of the damage Petrie is doing. Yogi also told me that both Collins and Mixu advised him strongly not to take the job due to Petrie's interference. :agree:

Certainly the most recent interview that Mixu gave suggested this were true.

Speedway
15-01-2011, 07:36 PM
Premature? You are joking, right? 15 days into the transfer window, no positive sign of anybody half-decent coming in, £1m taken in fees for Bamba and Stokes, and in the process two of the higher earners off the wage bill, a team that can't buy a win, a manager who persists with a long-ball tactic into a lightweight forward line and a club that's staring down the barrel of relegation...

Do you not think the Hibs fans deserve better?


And your point is off-topic anyway - which was when does Petrie himself accept some culpability for the club's position, and what precisely does his gaffer STF expect of him in terms of the way the FOOTBALL TEAM is limping along in the directionless way they are just now?

No, we really don't.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=Cropley10;2692213]

Riiiiggghhhhtttt?????

So basically making financial commitments that you have absolutely no chance of making, ruining the livelihoods of a number of professional players, staff which impacted dreadfully on their families (not to mention the local businesses) and driving a local club to the brink of extinction should NOT be held against you because you DONT have a car park???? Therefore he should be considered a serious candidate?

:hmmm:

Mr Petrie is not a magician. He's an accountant. Fortunately for the accountant he had a nice juicy piece of Edinburgh real-estate to sell. So he did. Luckily he also had some right good players to sell. So he did.

Petrie got us in to more debt than Motherwell. Unfortunately for Pat, he had neither real estate nor young talent to sell.

Had it not been for the car park and the crop of youth players Mr Petrie - the accountant, who is not a magician, would have had us in administration too - ruining the livelihoods of a number of professional players and staff which would have impacted dreadfully on their families (not to mention the local businesses) driving a local club to the brink of extinction.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 07:36 PM
There will be a lot less cash when we're playing Partick Thistle, not Rangers, that much I do know.

STF didn't get where he is today by being sentimental.

Certainly not. Sentiment does not come into it.

He responds equally poorly, perhaps more so, to being told what to do.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 07:43 PM
The car park has been done to death on here.

You state that Petrie sold the car park. He did not.

Did any of the players beg to stay? Did they refuse to move? They did not.

Petrie did not actively pursue the sales of these players. They wanted away, made that crystal clear, and Petrie did what was best for Hibs in that situation.

He would have been even more chastised had their contracts been allowed to run down.

Your last paragraph is pure speculation from your perspective. The Motherwell situation was real.

You REALLY dont like him for some reason.


[QUOTE=The Falcon;2692333]

Mr Petrie is not a magician. He's an accountant. Fortunately for the accountant he had a nice juicy piece of Edinburgh real-estate to sell. So he did. Luckily he also had some right good players to sell. So he did.

Petrie got us in to more debt than Motherwell. Unfortunately for Pat, he had neither real estate nor young talent to sell.

Had it not been for the car park and the crop of youth players Mr Petrie - the accountant, who is not a magician, would have had us in administration too - ruining the livelihoods of a number of professional players and staff which would have impacted dreadfully on their families (not to mention the local businesses) driving a local club to the brink of extinction.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 07:44 PM
Certainly not. Sentiment does not come into it.

He responds equally poorly, perhaps more so, to being told what to do.

You're making it sound like you know STF.

No-one is - or will - tell him what to do. As I say, there will be a lot less accountancy required in the SFL.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 07:47 PM
You're making it sound like you know STF.

No-one is - or will - tell him what to do. As I say, there will be a lot less accountancy required in the SFL.

No i dont.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 07:48 PM
The car park has been done to death on here.

You state that Petrie sold the car park. He did not.

Did any of the players beg to stay? Did they refuse to move? They did not.

Petrie did not actively pursue the sales of these players. They wanted away, made that crystal clear, and Petrie did what was best for Hibs in that situation.

He would have been even more chastised had their contracts been allowed to run down.

You REALLY dont like him for some reason. [QUOTE=The Falcon;2692417]

[QUOTE=Cropley10;2692399]

So Petrie didn't sell the car park:confused: Who did then?

My point is - Petrie had good players to sell and he did. Which is and was absolutely, completely and utterly the right thing to do.

By contrast Pat Nevin did not. So couldn't.

Mr Petrie is not the reason we had these players, just as Pat Nevin was the reason he did not.

i don't dislike Mr Petire - I just think he can't appoint managers and should give up doing so forthwith.

We're becoming like Kilmarnock, frankly.

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 07:50 PM
No i dont.

Yet you say he doesn't like being told what to do?

So that's just a guess then?

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 07:54 PM
[QUOTE=The Falcon;2692417]The car park has been done to death on here.

You state that Petrie sold the car park. He did not.

Did any of the players beg to stay? Did they refuse to move? They did not.

Petrie did not actively pursue the sales of these players. They wanted away, made that crystal clear, and Petrie did what was best for Hibs in that situation.

He would have been even more chastised had their contracts been allowed to run down.

You REALLY dont like him for some reason. [QUOTE=The Falcon;2692417]



So Petrie didn't sell the car park:confused: Who did then?

My point is - Petrie had good players to sell and he did. Which is and was absolutely, completely and utterly the right thing to do.

By contrast Pat Nevin did not. So couldn't.

Mr Petrie is not the reason we had these players, just as Pat Nevin was the reason he did not.

i don't dislike Mr Petire - I just think he can't appoint managers and should give up doing so forthwith.

We're becoming like Kilmarnock, frankly.


As I said the car park has been done to death. Petrie played very little part in those shenanigans.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 07:55 PM
Yet you say he doesn't like being told what to do?

So that's just a guess then?

Business associates

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 08:23 PM
Business associates

So some 'business associates' know STF - and you replay this info on here, in a way that might suggest to the uninitiated that it's you who know him.

I'm glad we cleared up the fact that you don't know him. Thanks.

smurf
15-01-2011, 09:19 PM
I know there has been some questions as to whether Paw broon was approached for the Hibs job. I can confirm he was and turned us down. Paw Broon was approached and was not interested. The reason, simple! Rod Petrie.

Clear evidence of the damage Petrie is doing. Yogi also told me that both Collins and Mixu advised him strongly not to take the job due to Petrie's interference. :agree:

No! No, that CAN'T be true....

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 09:31 PM
So some 'business associates' know STF - and you replay this info on here, in a way that might suggest to the uninitiated that it's you who know him.

I'm glad we cleared up the fact that you don't know him. Thanks.

Where did I say I knew STF?

You really are clutching at straws now.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 09:46 PM
So some 'business associates' know STF - and you replay this info on here, in a way that might suggest to the uninitiated that it's you who know him.

I'm glad we cleared up the fact that you don't know him. Thanks.

Would the "unitiated" include those that think Rod Petrie sold the car park?

Cropley10
15-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Where did I say I knew STF?

You really are clutching at straws now.

Yet I'm not the one pretending he knows how STF and SRP operate.:confused:

As I said I'm glad you've confirmed you don't know him. That allows any further comments you make about our owner and Chairman to be put in to context. Thanks. :aok:

hibeenicol
15-01-2011, 10:23 PM
Why are hibs paying the 3 top men that are at the top of the board 500k a year between them? would this money not be better spent on players wages?
And why can we not spend a million quid on players now? go abit into debt now hopefully get the players caldewood needs now before we get relegated before its too late and the players he wanted won't come to a team in the first division?

me personally I didn't think we were too bad today, it was better than the last few games Ive seen but it's obvious we need to splash the cash on some decent players that can try and lift the team and the fans.

The Falcon
15-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Yet I'm not the one pretending he knows how STF and SRP operate.:confused:

As I said I'm glad you've confirmed you don't know him. That allows any further comments you make about our owner and Chairman to be put in to context. Thanks. :aok:

Like everything else you post you have your own fantasy agenda and when your fantastic claims, like Petrie sold the car park, are shown up as the ramblings of a fool that they are, you then try to manipulate what I said to try to regain some credence to the nonsense you spout on what appears to be some sort of sad personal crusade against Rod Petrie. By referring to "SRP" you have apparently knighted him in the above post so I could reasonably ask if, by doing so, that you actually believe you can influence the Monarch in this respect? But I wont.

This apparent obssession with all things Petrie is unlikely to be healthy however, at least Hibs are not playing well just now so that should you give you some personal satisfaction in that it allows you to continue your ongoing tedious campaign against the man, at the very least.

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Like everything else you post you have your own fantasy agenda and when your fantastic claims, like Petrie sold the car park, are shown up as the ramblings of a fool that they are, you then try to manipulate what I said to try to regain some credence to the nonsense you spout on what appears to be some sort of sad personal crusade against Rod Petrie. By referring to "SRP" you have apparently knighted him in the above post so I could reasonably ask if, by doing so, that you actually believe you can influence the Monarch in this respect? But I wont.

This apparent obssession with all things Petrie is unlikely to be healthy however, at least Hibs are not playing well just now so that should you give you some personal satisfaction in that it allows you to continue your ongoing tedious campaign against the man, at the very least.

Mr Petrie was in the extremely fortunate position of having had the family silver - a great crop of young players - to sell. I agree that these players couldn't haven been kept and that their sale repaired our balance sheet. No one can argue he did a good job in this respect.

I think you will find the point is simply is that there are people who now believe he might actually be part of the problem, rather than the solution. Arguing over precisely what role he had to play in the sale of a piece of land is irrelevant. He is lauded as some sort of genius, when in fact he sold assets and reinvested them in tangible assets and repaired the balance sheet in the process, a balance sheet he'd be culpable in damaging of course.

What he appears to be incapable of doing is appointing a manager who can work with him on both a daily and institutional basis. His record since Mowbray is poor, brief successes, followed by turgid, uninspiring football in the main, ending in the premature conclusion of each appointment, whilst all the while the ultimate quality of the player on the park diminishes, year on year.

Anyway I don't know Mr Petrie and at least we've now established that you don't either. I have a difference of opinion and - as this is a Message Board - I will continue to voice them.

(NB - you never answered my question regarding Nish and Rankin, and whether you think they're the quality of player we need at Hibernian Football Club).

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 11:04 AM
What cash? :confused:

matty_f
16-01-2011, 11:07 AM
What cash? :confused:

interestingly, cc said yesterday that the budget was not the problem.

bingo70
16-01-2011, 11:08 AM
What cash? :confused:

I think we need to be looking at taking money out the summer budget and spend it now if that was possible, we need to do something to get player in sharpish.

J-C
16-01-2011, 11:17 AM
Petrie has to ensure the new manager stops buying lower SPL/Div1 quality players.

I'm thinking of Rankin, Nish, De Graaf, McBride, Cregg, Zarabe,HKT etc, etc , etc.

Instead of wasting thousands on wasters like these, bring in 5-6 with decent quality, other teams seem to be able to do it, why not Hibs.

What happened to the scouting system at ER that brought us Murphy, Jones, Sproule. Since Mowbray left we've signed players that are pants, 3 managers down and umpteen players who aren't good enough to lace my boots and I don't own any football boots now.

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 11:48 AM
Petrie has to ensure the new manager stops buying lower SPL/Div1 quality players.

I'm thinking of Rankin, Nish, De Graaf, McBride, Cregg, Zarabe,HKT etc, etc , etc.

Instead of wasting thousands on wasters like these, bring in 5-6 with decent quality, other teams seem to be able to do it, why not Hibs.

What happened to the scouting system at ER that brought us Murphy, Jones, Sproule. Since Mowbray left we've signed players that are pants, 3 managers down and umpteen players who aren't good enough to lace my boots and I don't own any football boots now.

But everyone says that Petrie's not a football man so how would he know lower quality when he sees it?

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 11:50 AM
What happened to the scouting system at ER that brought us Murphy, Jones, Sproule.

That particular scouting system is currently manager of Middlesbrough Football Club.

J-C
16-01-2011, 11:54 AM
That particular scouting system is currently manager of Middlesbrough Football Club.


Touche :na na:

but you know what I mean, we seem to be able to buy duds, unlike other teams in the league who happen to bring in wee gems every season, it does get depressing.

J-C
16-01-2011, 11:55 AM
But everyone says that Petrie's not a football man so how would he know lower quality when he sees it?


Does he not have football men around him for advise, apart from the manager that is.

--------
16-01-2011, 11:58 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9359765.stm

I wouldn't be surprised if STF and RP are content to rely on League reconstruction to save us from the drop...

Then they can bin all the out-of-contracts and start all over again.

Whether Calderwood and Adams will be around in for this is another question, of course.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 12:00 PM
Does he not have football men around him for advise, apart from the manager that is.

Why would he need anyone other than the manager to advise?

Surely if the manager says that he wants Player A, his position is massively undermined if someone has a word in Petrie's ear and says 'by the way, Player A is gantin' '?

J-C
16-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Why would he need anyone other than the manager to advise?

Surely if the manager says that he wants Player A, his position is massively undermined if someone has a word in Petrie's ear and says 'by the way, Player A is gantin' '?


I know what your saying Matty, it's all very frustrating at the moment, I think we're all trying to find the answers.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 12:07 PM
I know what your saying Matty, it's all very frustrating at the moment, I think we're all trying to find the answers.
:agree:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 12:12 PM
I know what your saying Matty, it's all very frustrating at the moment, I think we're all trying to find the answers.

:agree:

greenlex
16-01-2011, 01:48 PM
I know there has been some questions as to whether Paw broon was approached for the Hibs job. I can confirm he was and turned us down. Paw Broon was approached and was not interested. The reason, simple! Rod Petrie.

Clear evidence of the damage Petrie is doing. Yogi also told me that both Collins and Mixu advised him strongly not to take the job due to Petrie's interference. :agree:
How do you know this? A post on another fans message board?

Clear evidence? What sort of interference are we talking about. Can you let us know?

Beefster
16-01-2011, 01:54 PM
Mr Petrie was in the extremely fortunate position of having had the family silver - a great crop of young players - to sell. I agree that these players couldn't haven been kept and that their sale repaired our balance sheet. No one can argue he did a good job in this respect.

I think you will find the point is simply is that there are people who now believe he might actually be part of the problem, rather than the solution. Arguing over precisely what role he had to play in the sale of a piece of land is irrelevant. He is lauded as some sort of genius, when in fact he sold assets and reinvested them in tangible assets and repaired the balance sheet in the process, a balance sheet he'd be culpable in damaging of course.

I've made this point in the past about the praise that Rodders gets for reducing our debt. If it wasn't for John Park, the youth coaches/scouts and the land, we'd have still been up **** creek without a paddle.

Hibs got lucky with Brown, Thomson, Fletcher, O'Connor, Whittaker etc. The only real 'genius' that Rodders showed in reducing the debt was not *****ing the transfer money up against the wall.

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 02:08 PM
I've made this point in the past about the praise that Rodders gets for reducing our debt. If it wasn't for John Park, the youth coaches/scouts and the land, we'd have still been up **** creek without a paddle.

Hibs got lucky with Brown, Thomson, Fletcher, O'Connor, Whittaker etc. The only real 'genius' that Rodders showed in reducing the debt was not *****ing the transfer money up against the wall.

It seems to me that if the players perform badly, Petire gets the blame, but if they perform well, someone else gets the credit.

If many fans had their way, the players you mention wouldn't have been sold at all.

Instead, they would have walked away at the end of their contracts and Hibs would still have the debt.

Petrie sold at the right time. He deserves credit.

just_joe
16-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Rod's done very well with the finances at the club but the way things are at the moment I think we no longer need a business man as a chairman. Time for a football man.

blackpoolhibs
16-01-2011, 02:13 PM
I've made this point in the past about the praise that Rodders gets for reducing our debt. If it wasn't for John Park, the youth coaches/scouts and the land, we'd have still been up **** creek without a paddle.

Hibs got lucky with Brown, Thomson, Fletcher, O'Connor, Whittaker etc. The only real 'genius' that Rodders showed in reducing the debt was not *****ing the transfer money up against the wall.

Who appointed John Park?

matty_f
16-01-2011, 02:15 PM
Who appointed John Park?

Ssshh, that was lucky.:cool2:

Removed
16-01-2011, 02:17 PM
Rod's done very well with the finances at the club but the way things are at the moment I think we no longer need a business man as a chairman. Time for a football man.

Who are all these "Football men" we keep hearing about and what difference would one make at Hibs :confused:

Kaiser1962
16-01-2011, 02:18 PM
Indeed. I dont think anyone, certainly not me, has claimed that Petrie is some sort of genius. He is though, very competent at what he does and has made sound rational decisions for the benefit of Hibs.

That said things are not going well and we are seeing all sorts of solution being banded about on here, then said solution is taken apart by another which goes to show that football is a business like no other.

This is a time for cool heads, a steady nerve, patience and support for the current incumbents.


It seems to me that if the players perform badly, Petire gets the blame, but if they perform well, someone else gets the credit.

If many fans had their way, the players you mention wouldn't have been sold at all.

Instead, they would have walked away at the end of their contracts and Hibs would still have the debt.

Petrie sold at the right time. He deserves credit.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 02:19 PM
Who are all these "Football men" we keep hearing about and what difference would one make at Hibs :confused:

I would have thought that Petrie had worked at the top level of a football club for long enough to be considered a football man by now.

Kaiser1962
16-01-2011, 02:20 PM
How do you know this? A post on another fans message board?

Clear evidence? What sort of interference are we talking about. Can you let us know?

:agree:

Even if it is true why would Calderwood then take the job? He, having been an international team mate of Collins may well have contacted him for his views, would be surprised if he hadnt to be honest.

Removed
16-01-2011, 02:21 PM
I would have thought that Petrie had worked at the top level of a football club for long enough to be considered a football man by now.

:agree: and that is why he is invited onto committees by the SFA.

Why would other folk on here not consider him to be a football man then :confused:

matty_f
16-01-2011, 02:26 PM
:agree: and that is why he is invited onto committees by the SFA.

Why would other folk on here not consider him to be a football man then :confused:

Because it suits to have him painted as some Dickensian Scrooge-like character, sitting counting money and cackling evily at the thought of scooping all the money that comes into Hibs for his own personal gain.

There are a lot of comments about him only being interested in the money, but the best way for the club to generate money is to be successful - cup runs and high league placings are the platform for significantly higher income.

It's in Petrie's (and all our) interests to have a good team on the park, and I think he's done as much as he can to get this, within the parameters of what we've got to work within.

--------
16-01-2011, 02:28 PM
It seems to me that if the players perform badly, Petire gets the blame, but if they perform well, someone else gets the credit.

If many fans had their way, the players you mention wouldn't have been sold at all.

Instead, they would have walked away at the end of their contracts and Hibs would still have the debt.

Petrie sold at the right time. He deserves credit.


As far as that goes, I would agree with you.

However, we're now at the point where virtually the entire playing staff are out of contract at the end of the season.

Players in the last 6 months of a contract don't give 100% to the cause - they're more concerned with where they're going to be playing next season. This has been obvious for some time from the 'performances' many of the present squad have been putting in.

If we're relegated (and as far as I can see ony a favourable League re-org will save us) the rats will flock to leave the sunk ship and CC (if he stays) will have to rebuild from scratch with very little in the way of resources and a huge question-mark against the ability and inclination of his immediate employers (RP and the board) to back him financially or morally.

IMO we're in the position that many areas of the Scottish Highlands found themselves in in the 19th century - owned by an absentee landlord (Farmer) who may mean well but doesn't know - or care - what's going on as long as the balance-sheet looks half-healthy and his factor (Petrie) reassures him that all's well. Time for Farmer to waken up and realise that Hibs aren't a museum piece to be preserved for posterity, but a football club that needs a vision and some impetus to survive, and for Petrie to cash in his investment and take himself off somewhere where he'll be welcome.

Between them, Farmer and Petrie have done well for us in the past in terms of finance and infrastructure, and I would never deny that. In terms of running a football team, right now they're the Anthrax Twins.

Removed
16-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Because it suits to have him painted as some Dickensian Scrooge-like character, sitting counting money and cackling evily at the thought of scooping all the money that comes into Hibs for his own personal gain.

There are a lot of comments about him only being interested in the money, but the best way for the club to generate money is to be successful - cup runs and high league placings are the platform for significantly higher income.

It's in Petrie's (and all our) interests to have a good team on the park, and I think he's done as much as he can to get this, within the parameters of what we've got to work within.

:agree:

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 02:36 PM
RP's a visionary ..

I'm just waiting for the exciting announcement of the fifth stand :agree:

blackpoolhibs
16-01-2011, 02:36 PM
Who are all these "Football men" we keep hearing about and what difference would one make at Hibs :confused:

Willie Miller at the sheep is the only director of football in the SPL as far as i'm aware. And he was a huge success before Pa Broon arrived. :wink:

ScottB
16-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Because it suits to have him painted as some Dickensian Scrooge-like character, sitting counting money and cackling evily at the thought of scooping all the money that comes into Hibs for his own personal gain.

There are a lot of comments about him only being interested in the money, but the best way for the club to generate money is to be successful - cup runs and high league placings are the platform for significantly higher income.

It's in Petrie's (and all our) interests to have a good team on the park, and I think he's done as much as he can to get this, within the parameters of what we've got to work within.

The points to consider are, has our wage budget increased in each of the last few seasons? Yes. Have the managers had the ability to bring in players? Yes.

This concept that Petrie is sitting in his office at ER, surrounded by piles of money he's hoarded up and refusing to spend it is utter nonsense. How many players did Collins, Mixu and Hughes bring in between them? Must be north of 30 odd, hardly a sign of the club refusing to sanction spending on players is it?

And if all Petrie cares about is the financial side of the club, as some claim, surely, as you say, that side of things are healthier when the club is playing well, fans are pouring through the gates and bigger clubs are sniffing round our players? Does anyone actually think Petrie wants us to be in this situation?

As for the oft mooted, mysterious 'football man' to have in charge, what the hell is that based on? What do folk imagine this football man will do differently? Spend cash we don't have? I don't see how we can spend even more on players than we currently do. I've seen Pat Niven suggested, a great guy to be sure, but his stint as CEO at Motherwell saw them spend themselves into Administration, so would folk rather have that kind of experience on the Board just cause they like his soundbites on Sportscene?

blackpoolhibs
16-01-2011, 02:43 PM
The points to consider are, has our wage budget increased in each of the last few seasons? Yes. Have the managers had the ability to bring in players? Yes.

This concept that Petrie is sitting in his office at ER, surrounded by piles of money he's hoarded up and refusing to spend it is utter nonsense. How many players did Collins, Mixu and Hughes bring in between them? Must be north of 30 odd, hardly a sign of the club refusing to sanction spending on players is it?

And if all Petrie cares about is the financial side of the club, as some claim, surely, as you say, that side of things are healthier when the club is playing well, fans are pouring through the gates and bigger clubs are sniffing round our players? Does anyone actually think Petrie wants us to be in this situation?

As for the oft mooted, mysterious 'football man' to have in charge, what the hell is that based on? What do folk imagine this football man will do differently? Spend cash we don't have? I don't see how we can spend even more on players than we currently do. I've seen Pat Niven suggested, a great guy to be sure, but his stint as CEO at Motherwell saw them spend themselves into Administration, so would folk rather have that kind of experience on the Board just cause they like his soundbites on Sportscene?

:agree: Surely Adams is the guy CC will bounce ideas off, and go looking for players with?

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 02:43 PM
RP's a visionary ..

I'm just waiting for the exciting announcement of the fifth stand :agree:

Maybe when they build it, you'll pop down and have a look at the 4th stand at the same time.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 02:46 PM
:agree: Surely Adams is the guy CC will bounce ideas off, and go looking for players with?

Indeed, if anything to my mind, having a 'football man' at the top sounds like a recipe for greater interference from on high.

The manager should be top dog when it comes to the playing side, the Board are there to appoint him and make sure the financial side produces enough cash for him to compete. Unless we want a European style position where the Chairman decides everything bar the starting line up.

blackpoolhibs
16-01-2011, 02:49 PM
Indeed, if anything to my mind, having a 'football man' at the top sounds like a recipe for greater interference from on high.

The manager should be top dog when it comes to the playing side, the Board are there to appoint him and make sure the financial side produces enough cash for him to compete. Unless we want a European style position where the Chairman decides everything bar the starting line up.

Yip. :agree:

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 02:55 PM
Maybe when they build it, you'll pop down and have a look at the 4th stand at the same time.

:faf: I've seen it :wink: and during a game before ye ask.

Mind take that hook oot before bedtime D

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 03:00 PM
:faf: I've seen it :wink: and during a game before ye ask.

Mind take that hook oot before bedtime D

Right back at you!

joebakerforever
16-01-2011, 03:07 PM
As far as that goes, I would agree with you.

However, we're now at the point where virtually the entire playing staff are out of contract at the end of the season.

Players in the last 6 months of a contract don't give 100% to the cause - they're more concerned with where they're going to be playing next season. This has been obvious for some time from the 'performances' many of the present squad have been putting in.

If we're relegated (and as far as I can see ony a favourable League re-org will save us) the rats will flock to leave the sunk ship and CC (if he stays) will have to rebuild from scratch with very little in the way of resources and a huge question-mark against the ability and inclination of his immediate employers (RP and the board) to back him financially or morally.

IMO we're in the position that many areas of the Scottish Highlands found themselves in in the 19th century - owned by an absentee landlord (Farmer) who may mean well but doesn't know - or care - what's going on as long as the balance-sheet looks half-healthy and his factor (Petrie) reassures him that all's well. Time for Farmer to waken up and realise that Hibs aren't a museum piece to be preserved for posterity, but a football club that needs a vision and some impetus to survive, and for Petrie to cash in his investment and take himself off somewhere where he'll be welcome.

Between them, Farmer and Petrie have done well for us in the past in terms of finance and infrastructure, and I would never deny that. In terms of running a football team, right now they're the Anthrax Twins.

:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club.

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep.

Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 03:12 PM
Right back at you!

Do a no get a :wink: or a :greengrin at least?

BEEJ
16-01-2011, 03:12 PM
The manager should be top dog when it comes to the playing side, the Board are there to appoint him and make sure the financial side produces enough cash for him to compete.
No question.

But is that an accurate description of the RP / manager relationship at ER?

Remember this interview with Mixu News of the World (19 September 2010)?


As his free-flowing side prepare to entertain Celtic today, the Finn [Mixu] finally sets the record straight on the anger and frustration he has felt.

He said: "My idea has not changed about the way to play football from Hibs to here but what you can do at one club is not always the same at another. "You don't always have the control, many things can affect you - without going into too many details. I'm pleased the supporters are seeing it here and I'm pleased the players are enjoying it.

Paatelainen didn't launch any verbal volleys at Petrie but he still makes his feelings on his time at the club clear for the first time. He said: "A manager can only play the system your players allow you to.

"My hope at Hibs was to play the way we do here, to get the full-backs forward, to play a certain way but I wasn't able to because of the personnel.

"The way you can play at one club is never the same as another. That was the big lure of coming to Kilmarnock.

"The squad was very small in terms of numbers, so I thought 'great'. There was a transfer kitty - not big, quite small actually - but I thought I could look for players who fitted the way I wanted to play. Luckily the players have been available.

"At Hibs, the ideal player for me would have been David Murphy but the first weekend I was there he was sold to Birmingham. After there was no overlapping full-back.

"We had other positions we were short in as well. There were quality players there, still are, no question, but we had to play differently, I had to adjust my way of playing."


Very telling quotes in this piece, particularly the parts I've highlighted in bold. In a subsequent newspaper interview Mixu held back from being so outspoken and even praised RP's qualities, stating how good he was to work with.

But in this interview he was either telling porkies or revealing some of the more frustrating aspects of life for a manager at ER.

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 03:14 PM
Do a no get a :wink: or a :greengrin at least?

:wink:

Ya bam! :greengrin

down the slope
16-01-2011, 03:16 PM
If Rod is a financial genius how is it he one of the prime movers to take the club to a ten team league that virtually no one wants ?, as for doing the selling bit i would hope that anyone with half a brain could get money for good players. The hard bit is getting the right people to join the club and he has failed time and time again to the point that we are strong relegation candidates. This is down to him and no one else is to blame , wrong decisions that have cost us plenty and now there is no hiding place or anyone or anything left to sell, a huge few weeks lie ahead for our club that could impact on us for years to come so it is time to be bold and ensure our stay in the SPL but i'm not holding my breath on that one.

smurf
16-01-2011, 03:21 PM
:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club.

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep.

Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:

It wasn't in the days of Tom Hart we signed Gordon Durie.

It was the days of Kenny Waugh.

greenlex
16-01-2011, 03:28 PM
:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Stokes Riordan and Miller and DeGraff will be at the top end of our wage scale. Although we didnt pay significant transfer fees. They will also have reiceved signing on fees which is cash out the door. Significant in Hibs terms

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need. SO FAR Bit premature with this.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club. Investment is investment. This also contradicts your paragraph

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep. Were we world beaters with Juke Box in the side? Right enough we havent signed anyone and sold them on for a profit of late right enough.

Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:Templeton? dont make me laugh, The laddie has quick feet and a decent player but is just as likely to crash and burn ala Driver as kick on. Whats the betting he disappears next season leaving a memory of a few weeks of decent football. If he was as good as you suggest he would have been doing it long before he has as he has been on the fringes for what seems like ages
All in my Opinion of course

--------
16-01-2011, 03:47 PM
:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club.

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep.

Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:


I have the greatest respect for Farmer in regard to his rescue of us in 1990. I appreciate that under Petrie's stewardship we now possess the best stadium of its size in Scotland and a more than adequate training facility.

However, the situation at ER right now is as if Tesco opened a megastore in Leith with state-of the art computer systems, stunning architecture, everything designed for the ease and comfort of the shopper, top-class restaurant and a huge carpark - but ALL the produce on the shelves was past its sell-by date.

How long do you think the board and managers of such a store would stay in their jobs?

How long would Farmer have left a manager of one of his Quik-Fit shops in post if he'd found out that that manager wasn't stocking any tyres that any motorist wanted to buy?

What is the point of having up-to-date training facilities if we get no benefit from them in terms of young players? Or maybe, what's the poiint of the young players who do come through are never played?

What's the point of a 21,000 capacity modern stadium conforming to all the criteria for staging top European matches, if the team playing there would struggle in the First Division of the SFL?

What's the point of balancing the books, then adopting policies that see the debt rising and the tide of red ink in said books advancing once again?

Hibs ain't Quik-Fit - we need a vision, we need some hope, and we need a coherent team policy that doesn't involve signing-up and sacking a manager every 15-18 months and giving no player a contract that lasts longer than 2 seasons.

I know this'll send a rustle of horror through the drawing-rooms of Hibs.net, but the time has come when Farmer and Petrie have to shape up or ship out. Because right now I can see no advantage to Hibs in their staying.

Septimus
16-01-2011, 03:50 PM
So said the wee banner at the north end of the East Stand.The man obviously doesn't appreciate all the great work he's done. Quite ironic he was in the brand new East Stand.

So - is this the thin end of the wedge? Or just some isolated fool?

I am willing to bet that the owner of the banner would happily have stood on a cinder/concrete terracing with no cover whatsoever in driving rain if he could have watched a real Hibs team on the park.

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 03:55 PM
:wink:

Ya bam! :greengrin

Up ye ya radge :thumbsup:

--------
16-01-2011, 03:59 PM
I am willing to bet that the owner of the banner would happily have stood on a cinder/concrete terracing with no cover whatsoever in driving rain if he could have watched a real Hibs team on the park.


:agree:

The root of the problem seems to me to be the fact that virtually the entire first-team squad are out of contract in 6 months' time.

Human nature dictates that they'll all be more concerned with where they'll be playing next season - even IF they'll be playing next season - than with the fortunes of their now temporary employer.

Bringing in more loan deals won't solve the problem - they'll be looking elsewhere as well.

We need some committed leadership on the park, and this won't happen until we have a squad committed to Hibs for a longer term than a few months.

This situation isn't the fault of the managers - it comes back to the money-men who negotiated the contracts.

There's no room for complacency at ER - not in the boardroom, the manager's office, or among the fans. IMO the only chance we have of NOT playing First Div football next year is if the League reconstruction saves us.

Which, I fear, STF and RP would see as some sort of vindication of their present policies.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 04:49 PM
So the argument would appear to be that the Board should have spent more money on players than they have done in recent years.

So what would have been different if they had? The Yams have been spending significantly more money than us on players and wages for years now, they've hardly achieved significantly more than we have, and have been as prone to a rubbish season in the bottom 6 as we or anyone else has.

So lets say that the money spent on East Mains and the East Stand was spent on players, what situation would we be in now? Players are only likely to hang around for 3-4 years tops. Some of course would no doubt have been bought of us, hopefully at a profit, others would leave for free, and others wouldn't have worked out and hung around till they could be binned for free. Hearts have been unable to make third place their own despite spending millions, so there's no guarantee we'd have done so either, nor have picked up more silverware than we did. I can't blame the Board for choosing to invest in tangible assets that in theory should improve the squad in the future; a training facility that should produce quality youngsters and a stand to increase revenue. Of course whether they have worked out like that is the great debate, but that would have been the rationale behind them.

I firmly believe it is not possible for one team to dominate the other non Old Firm clubs and finish third every year, just seems to be the way of the league. This time last year we were third pushing second, with Dundee United passing us for Third in the end and Hearts were down the wrong end of the table. This year Hearts have run off with third and we and Untied have been mince. It's hardly impossible that should we survive and CC rebuilds in the summer that this time next year we could be back in third place again, such is the nature of the league we are in. Would the Board's current policy be so unthinkably awful then? Just playing devil's advocate here of course, and it doesn't make our current situation any less acceptable.

--------
16-01-2011, 04:59 PM
So the argument would appear to be that the Board should have spent more money on players than they have done in recent years.

So what would have been different if they had? The Yams have been spending significantly more money than us on players and wages for years now, they've hardly achieved significantly more than we have, and have been as prone to a rubbish season in the bottom 6 as we or anyone else has.

So lets say that the money spent on East Mains and the East Stand was spent on players, what situation would we be in now? Players are only likely to hang around for 3-4 years tops. Some of course would no doubt have been bought of us, hopefully at a profit, others would leave for free, and others wouldn't have worked out and hung around till they could be binned for free. Hearts have been unable to make third place their own despite spending millions, so there's no guarantee we'd have done so either, nor have picked up more silverware than we did. I can't blame the Board for choosing to invest in tangible assets that in theory should improve the squad in the future; a training facility that should produce quality youngsters and a stand to increase revenue. Of course whether they have worked out like that is the great debate, but that would have been the rationale behind them.

I firmly believe it is not possible for one team to dominate the other non Old Firm clubs and finish third every year, just seems to be the way of the league. This time last year we were third pushing second, with Dundee United passing us for Third in the end and Hearts were down the wrong end of the table. This year Hearts have run off with third and we and Untied have been mince. It's hardly impossible that should we survive and CC rebuilds in the summer that this time next year we could be back in third place again, such is the nature of the league we are in. Would the Board's current policy be so unthinkably awful then? Just playing devil's advocate here of course, and it doesn't make our current situation any less acceptable.

My problem is that somehow we've arrived at the place where we're on our fifth manager in about seven years, we have an entire first-team squad out of contract at the end of this season, and we're in a relegation dogfight.

It's not just about money, it's about vision and long-term planning, neither of which our board (or owner) seem to possess for the club.

discman
16-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Indeed, if anything to my mind, having a 'football man' at the top sounds like a recipe for greater interference from on high.

The manager should be top dog when it comes to the playing side, the Board are there to appoint him and make sure the financial side produces enough cash for him to compete. Unless we want a European style position where the Chairman decides everything bar the starting line up.

Eh thats what we do have and thats exactly what happens,its not a big secret :cool2:




[QUOTE=Doddie;2693660]I have the greatest respect for Farmer in regard to his rescue of us in 1990. I appreciate that under Petrie's stewardship we now possess the best stadium of its size in Scotland and a more than adequate training facility.

However, the situation at ER right now is as if Tesco opened a megastore in Leith with state-of the art computer systems, stunning architecture, everything designed for the ease and comfort of the shopper, top-class restaurant and a huge carpark - but ALL the produce on the shelves was past its sell-by date.

How long do you think the board and managers of such a store would stay in their jobs?

How long would Farmer have left a manager of one of his Quik-Fit shops in post if he'd found out that that manager wasn't stocking any tyres that any motorist wanted to buy?

What is the point of having up-to-date training facilities if we get no benefit from them in terms of young players? Or maybe, what's the poiint of the young players who do come through are never played?

What's the point of a 21,000 capacity modern stadium conforming to all the criteria for staging top European matches, if the team playing there would struggle in the First Division of the SFL?

What's the point of balancing the books, then adopting policies that see the debt rising and the tide of red ink in said books advancing once again?

Hibs ain't Quik-Fit - we need a vision, we need some hope, and we need a coherent team policy that doesn't involve signing-up and sacking a manager every 15-18 months and giving no player a contract that lasts longer than 2 seasons.

I know this'll send a rustle of horror through the drawing-rooms of Hibs.net, but the time has come when Farmer and Petrie have to shape up or ship out. Because right now I can see no advantage to Hibs in their staying.[/QUOTE



Or they were crap tyres and the customers,eh fans, decided they'd had enough and decided to vote with their feet Farmer would be/should be concerned sufficiently to intervene,which he has done in the past, we're a business that happens to be a football club ergo when we buy assets/players a manager will

assess a player depending upon the teams need and where it needs strenghtening etc, of course rp will take that into consideration,however his primary consideration as a business is the bottom line, he sees an player/asset and thinks in terms of cost, saleability, whither there free or loan,so immediately theres a conflict between the two perceptions!

I dont understand people being critical of fellow fans who question the competence of the the guy who is solely responsible for all fianancial transactions.

Of course we're all grateful for our club being saved from extinction,but how long does the debt of gratitude last?

We are struggling no doubt and part of the problem is rp,the debate around this seems to be the extent to which he's complicit, maybe its time we expressed our concerns directly to the man who could possibly remedy it ie Tom Farmer.

We need to find a solution that will satisfy the customers/fans and be acceptable to the business that is our football team. :cool2:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:13 PM
Given the amount of business acumen shown on this thread surely one of you guys is in a position to buy Farmer out and invest many millions in the team.

From reading this thread it is pretty obvious the man has no idea what he's doing.

:rolleyes:

ScottB
16-01-2011, 05:17 PM
My problem is that somehow we've arrived at the place where we're on our fifth manager in about seven years, we have an entire first-team squad out of contract at the end of this season, and we're in a relegation dogfight.

It's not just about money, it's about vision and long-term planning, neither of which our board (or owner) seem to possess for the club.

Indeed. Personally I take the appointment of CC and Adams as a sign (hopefully) of long term planning, if we assume that Adams could himself be CC's likely successor further down the line and while it is proving problematic to have so many players going at once, it is a good thing as it will allow us to be free of the dross the previous 3 managers signed in one swoop.

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 05:17 PM
:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club.

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep.Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:

Garbage. Absolute garbage.
More Tom Hart beatification.
Do you suppose Tom Hart and Gordon Durie ever met each other? Dead by the time Durie signed for Hibs IIRC.
Try Kenny Waugh.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:21 PM
Indeed. Personally I take the appointment of CC and Adams as a sign (hopefully) of long term planning, if we assume that Adams could himself be CC's likely successor further down the line and while it is proving problematic to have so many players going at once, it is a good thing as it will allow us to be free of the dross the previous 3 managers signed in one swoop.

Without a doubt. Everybody complains that the current squad are not "hibs class" so the management (Yogi) makes a plan to have them all out of contract. But by doing so this somehow shows a lack of "forward planning". :dunno:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Garbage. Absolute garbage.
More Tom Hart beatification.
Do you suppose Tom Hart and Gordon Durie ever met each other? Dead by the time Durie signed for Hibs IIRC.
Try Kenny Waugh.

Tom Hart died in 1982.

Durie signed for Hibs from East Fife for about £65K in 1984.

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 05:30 PM
:top marks

To suggest that Hibs have reinvested a significant amount of the money they received in transfer fees, because they have imported a large number of players (most of whom did not involve sizeable transfer fees, if any at all), is fallacious.

Fact is the cash received for Stokes and Bamba has not been used to redress their loss, in our time of need.

So far we have brought in Duffy on loan from League 1 Bristol Rovers where he was surplus, and free agent Trakys who has hardly set the heather on fire.

No doubt if Calderwood recruits some further loanees, this will be seen as a substantial investment by the Petrie fan club.

Go back to the days of Tom Hart (a real Club Owner, unlike the figurehead approach of Saint Tom) when he recruited Gordon Durie, and that is what you call paying the going rate to recruit promising talent on your doorstep.

Jeez even the Yams had the nous to invest in the likes of Templeton while we were too busy selling off the family silver :grr:


Garbage. Absolute garbage.
More Tom Hart beatification.
Do you suppose Tom Hart and Gordon Durie ever met each other? Dead by the time Durie signed for Hibs IIRC.
Try Kenny Waugh.


Tom Hart died in 1982.

Durie signed for Hibs from East Fife for about £65K in 1984.


I know this.
What a Chairman, working from beyond the grave.
And only got us relegated the once.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:33 PM
[/B]


I know this.
What a Chairman, working from beyond the grave.
And only got us relegated the once.

JoeBakerforever has his finger on the pulse!

see what i did there.........:greengrin

Did Kenny Waugh ever get accused of "selling the family silver"?

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 05:36 PM
JoeBakerforever has his finger on the pulse!

see what i did there.........:greengrin

Did Kenny Waugh ever get accused of "selling the family silver"?

Many times.

'Never trust a bookie' was the rallying cry of the time.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:38 PM
JoeBakerforever has his finger on the pulse!

see what i did there.........:greengrin

Did Kenny Waugh ever get accused of "selling the family silver"?

Many times.

'Never trust a bookie' was the rallying cry of the time.

Theres a pattern here if you look hard enough :hmmm:

BEEJ
16-01-2011, 05:40 PM
Without a doubt. Everybody complains that the current squad are not "hibs class" so the management (Yogi) makes a plan to have them all out of contract. But by doing so this somehow shows a lack of "forward planning". :dunno:
And we're now starting to realise why few similar instances of this radical approach to squad development can be found in the history of the sport in the UK.

:rolleyes:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 05:44 PM
And we're now starting to realise why few similar instances of this radical approach to squad development can be found in the history of the sport in the UK.

:rolleyes:

Probably why Yogi is no longer there though :greengrin

As masterplans go it probably has not developed as hoped but can be filed under "sounded good in theory"

However, this is where we are so lets let CC get on with it.

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Without a doubt. Everybody complains that the current squad are not "hibs class" so the management (Yogi) makes a plan to have them all out of contract. But by doing so this somehow shows a lack of "forward planning". :dunno:

As you are an expert not only on Hibernian, business, and obviously football in general perhaps you could give us all an example of where allowing, say, 16 players to have their contracts run out has been attempted before.

Appointing Adams is forward planning no doubt. It avoids any recruitment process or compensation once Calderwood leaves.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 06:05 PM
As you are an expert not only on Hibernian, business, and obviously football in general perhaps you could give us all an example of where allowing, say, 16 players to have their contracts run out has been attempted before.

Appointing Adams is forward planning no doubt. It avoids any recruitment process or compensation once Calderwood leaves.

Given the large numbers of crap players we currently have, what would you have done? Doesn't appear to be anybody lining up to sign them of us at the moment.

And I refuse to believe a bunch of guys who would appear to be out of a job in the summer deliberately aren't trying. Perhaps that argument would stick if they'd all signed pre contracts elsewhere, but as far as we know, the lot of them are headed for the dole queue as it stands.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 06:13 PM
As you are an expert not only on Hibernian, business, and obviously football in general perhaps you could give us all an example of where allowing, say, 16 players to have their contracts run out has been attempted before. .

I am certainly no expert but I can see why, compared to you, that you think I might be. Sorry to disappoint you.

Nor did I say that this has been tried before. Your twisting things again and you should really try to stop that. Its becoming tiresome.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 06:22 PM
As you are an expert not only on Hibernian, business, and obviously football in general perhaps you could give us all an example of where allowing, say, 16 players to have their contracts run out has been attempted before.

Appointing Adams is forward planning no doubt. It avoids any recruitment process or compensation once Calderwood leaves.

I think the out of contract players represent a ' line in the sand', where the manager(s) have recognised that there have been an excess of below part players signed on decent contracts over ther last few years, and rather than trying to constantly scrabble around getting one good player and two or three fillers because that's all the budget will accommodate over and above the players already here, a decision was taken to make a wholesale change.
Not being in this situation would have meant extending contracts for players many of us are desperate to see the back of.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 06:24 PM
I think the out of contract players represent a ' line in the sand', where the manager(s) have recognised that there have been an excess of below part players signed on decent contracts over ther last few years, and rather than trying to constantly scrabble around getting one good player and two or three fillers because that's all the budget will accommodate over and above the players already here, a decision was taken to make a wholesale change.
Not being in this situation would have meant extending contracts for players many of us are desperate to see the back of.

Was it at the AGM Matty that Rod was asked about this and suggested that the manager planned it that way? I paraphrase but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 06:30 PM
Was it at the AGM Matty that Rod was asked about this and suggested that the manager planned it that way? I paraphrase but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't recall,to be honest.

--------
16-01-2011, 06:32 PM
I think the out of contract players represent a ' line in the sand', where the manager(s) have recognised that there have been an excess of below part players signed on decent contracts over ther last few years, and rather than trying to constantly scrabble around getting one good player and two or three fillers because that's all the budget will accommodate over and above the players already here, a decision was taken to make a wholesale change.
Not being in this situation would have meant extending contracts for players many of us are desperate to see the back of.

Yes, matty, but now we have a whole squad of players with absolutely no reason whatsoever to exert themselves to keep us in the SPL.

They can play out the season, doing less than nothing to win games, and there's not a thing Petrie (who I would assume was responsible for the short-term contracts in the first place) or Calderwood and Adams (who were not) can do about it - except pray for a 14-team SPL as a way of saving our bacon.

This process has been advancing and developing for at least 5 years, since Collins' time. Time long past for Farmer to get his backside into gear and do something about it - if in fact he cares as much about the club as he says he does.

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 06:35 PM
Of course only one man deals with contracts at Easter Road. And it isn't the Manager.

matty_f
16-01-2011, 06:37 PM
Yes, matty, but now we have a whole squad of players with absolutely no reason whatsoever to exert themselves to keep us in the SPL.

They can play out the season, doing less than nothing to win games, and there's not a thing Petrie (who I would assume was responsible for the short-term contracts in the first place) or Calderwood and Adams (who were not) can do about it - except pray for a 14-team SPL as a way of saving our bacon.

This process has been advancing and developing for at least 5 years, since Collins' time. Time long past for Farmer to get his backside into gear and do something about it - if in fact he cares as much about the club as he says he does.

They should be playing to win new contracts, if not with us then with someone else. They should ber playing for their wages, for pride, and for the players next to them whose futures may also depend on the success (or at least lack of total failure) of the football club.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 06:39 PM
As I said Doddie I'm pretty sure that the short term contracts were at Hughes request. I am trying to find this statement though, which I think was at the AGM, but I'm not sure.


Yes, matty, but now we have a whole squad of players with absolutely no reason whatsoever to exert themselves to keep us in the SPL.

They can play out the season, doing less than nothing to win games, and there's not a thing Petrie (who I would assume was responsible for the short-term contracts in the first place) or Calderwood and Adams (who were not) can do about it - except pray for a 14-team SPL as a way of saving our bacon.

This process has been advancing and developing for at least 5 years, since Collins' time. Time long past for Farmer to get his backside into gear and do something about it - if in fact he cares as much about the club as he says he does.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Of course only one man deals with contracts at Easter Road. And it isn't the Manager.

So the manager has no input?

matty_f
16-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Of course only one man deals with contracts at Easter Road. And it isn't the Manager.

petrie's involvement is to try and get suitable terms for the players that the manager wants to keep.

discman
16-01-2011, 06:49 PM
And we're now starting to realise why few similar instances of this radical approach to squad development can be found in the history of the sport in the UK.

:rolleyes:


Whats wrong with being radical? Yogi wanted to make it really clear the type of player he wanted at ER those who were prerpared to work hard for the jersey.

Therefore this method would sort the wheat from the chaff, and given the current economic climate it makes sense,why do you think RP agreed with it.Yogi knew this squad wasnt good enough,this way you get rid of 8/9 use that money to bring in better quality players and not have to pay out compensation.

When Yogi started up at Eastmains he couldnt believe the culture or the state of the squad he had inherited,it was Yogi who got rid of the pool table and the plasma tv,it was Yogi who had them all wearing heart monitors and checking their weight Monday,which had been determined,then again on Friday.


If the players were back on target they werent fined! He had a dressing room populated with people who moaned,were half hearted at training,thought they should be at a bigger club, etc etc

One of the main problems was that Yogi,Mixu and JC were employees of the club putting them on par with the support team eg physios,they werent answerable to
Yogi but Petrie, it was difficult to get everybody to embrace his vision,eg to have the same philosphy running from the wee teams to the big team,simple "pass and move"

He did have a vision whereas CC hasnt, as I said before CC didnt even apply for the job, how keen was he? Sat and watched the game on Saturday occassionally got close ups of CC and DA together not a lot of communication between them,DA
take over,please get real :greengrin

mcfly
16-01-2011, 06:55 PM
I hope everyone who has posted on these pages recently takes the time to e mail the board.

link is on hibernian fc pages.

They wont read these pages on hibs.net but if enough people let them know our feelings etc then we may get a reaction.

we need players now

discman
16-01-2011, 06:56 PM
So the manager has no input?


Eh yeah,but only to the extent of saying I would like A B C, RP Then decides if he can get them, it was the same for Mixu and JC. :greengrin

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 06:57 PM
:agree:

The root of the problem seems to me to be the fact that virtually the entire first-team squad are out of contract in 6 months' time.

Human nature dictates that they'll all be more concerned with where they'll be playing next season - even IF they'll be playing next season - than with the fortunes of their now temporary employer.

Bringing in more loan deals won't solve the problem - they'll be looking elsewhere as well.

We need some committed leadership on the park, and this won't happen until we have a squad committed to Hibs for a longer term than a few months.

This situation isn't the fault of the managers - it comes back to the money-men who negotiated the contracts.

There's no room for complacency at ER - not in the boardroom, the manager's office, or among the fans. IMO the only chance we have of NOT playing First Div football next year is if the League reconstruction saves us.

Which, I fear, STF and RP would see as some sort of vindication of their present policies.

Sorry Doddie, I can't agree.

For example, De Graaf's on a 3 year deal.

The contract situation was engineered by Yogi.

Hibbyradge
16-01-2011, 07:00 PM
It's not just about money, it's about vision and long-term planning, neither of which our board (or owner) seem to possess for the club.

How much longer term thinking can you get than a first class training centre and a fabulous stadium? :confused:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:02 PM
Eh yeah,but only to the extent of saying I would like A B C, RP Then decides if he can get them, it was the same for Mixu and JC. :greengrin

So why do they bother to tell the manager he has a budget? Calderwood has described his budget as "absolutely perfect" so I dont get this. He just gives Petrie a name and basically waits. Is he not involved in the process at all?

Removed
16-01-2011, 07:02 PM
I hope everyone who has posted on these pages recently takes the time to e mail the board.

link is on hibernian fc pages.

They wont read these pages on hibs.net but if enough people let them know our feelings etc then we may get a reaction.

we need players now

Eh, directors do read this site.

mcfly
16-01-2011, 07:03 PM
Eh, directors do read this site.


how do you know this fact??

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:03 PM
Eh, directors do read this site.

and the Bounce.

PaulSmith
16-01-2011, 07:04 PM
how do you know this fact??

Because one of them told me.

mcfly
16-01-2011, 07:06 PM
Because one of them told me.

well they will know the depth of feeling and concern the fans have.

Removed
16-01-2011, 07:06 PM
how do you know this fact??

A director contacting an admin about something I posted.

This site does have some influence.

discman
16-01-2011, 07:10 PM
So why do they bother to tell the manager he has a budget? Calderwood has described his budget as "absolutely perfect" so I dont get this. He just gives Petrie a name and basically waits. Is he not involved in the process at all?


Nope, someone posted about the Darren Barr situation, and thats exactly what happened, RP offered him less than he was getting at Falkirk,1300 as apposed to 1400, so no deal, I agree one of your earlier points that where we are is where we are! The question is how do we go about resolving it? :greengrin

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 07:10 PM
how do you know this fact??

I know this. Fact.

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 07:12 PM
How much longer term thinking can you get than a first class training centre and a fabulous stadium? :confused:

Financing it properly over the long term so not to damage the team/the business in the short term.

As 'the strategy' is doing with fans - as they are - talking about not going/not reinewing etc. Its a mess. Not the mess of others - but it is a mess. No cash, no team, large losses etc .. Prayer mat time for the 14-team SPL if the Accies beat us! :grr: and I'm bl##dy dreading Tuesday already!

IWasThere2016
16-01-2011, 07:14 PM
ps got man flu goodnight :bye:

discman
16-01-2011, 07:18 PM
Eh, directors do read this site.


Why do people think that the board dont actually post on here,why is that such a leap? If your running a business its normal practice to get feedback through consumer groups,focus groups etc, all the board has to do is read us the bounce etc and that would tell them what the consumers think about their product, why would they not try to influence these opinions,if I was in their position thats what I'd do :cool2:

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Financing it properly over the long term so not to damage the team/the business in the short term.

I understand this facility was available (still is apparently) but not used.

Sir David Gray
16-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Was it at the AGM Matty that Rod was asked about this and suggested that the manager planned it that way? I paraphrase but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Check the second last post on this page.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?194119-Notes-From-The-2010-AGM/page3&highlight=agm+notes

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 07:24 PM
So the argument would appear to be that the Board should have spent more money on players than they have done in recent years.

So what would have been different if they had? The Yams have been spending significantly more money than us on players and wages for years now, they've hardly achieved significantly more than we have, and have been as prone to a rubbish season in the bottom 6 as we or anyone else has.

So lets say that the money spent on East Mains and the East Stand was spent on players, what situation would we be in now? Players are only likely to hang around for 3-4 years tops. Some of course would no doubt have been bought of us, hopefully at a profit, others would leave for free, and others wouldn't have worked out and hung around till they could be binned for free. Hearts have been unable to make third place their own despite spending millions, so there's no guarantee we'd have done so either, nor have picked up more silverware than we did. I can't blame the Board for choosing to invest in tangible assets that in theory should improve the squad in the future; a training facility that should produce quality youngsters and a stand to increase revenue. Of course whether they have worked out like that is the great debate, but that would have been the rationale behind them.

I firmly believe it is not possible for one team to dominate the other non Old Firm clubs and finish third every year, just seems to be the way of the league. This time last year we were third pushing second, with Dundee United passing us for Third in the end and Hearts were down the wrong end of the table. This year Hearts have run off with third and we and Untied have been mince. It's hardly impossible that should we survive and CC rebuilds in the summer that this time next year we could be back in third place again, such is the nature of the league we are in. Would the Board's current policy be so unthinkably awful then? Just playing devil's advocate here of course, and it doesn't make our current situation any less acceptable.

I always laugh at quotes like this, 2 scottish cups a 2nd in league (deemed almost impossible) and finishing top 3 about 7 out of 10 years is SIGNIFICATNLY better than we have acheieved :cool2:

I wont admit that to a Jambo but it is true.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:37 PM
Check the second last post on this page.

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?194119-Notes-From-The-2010-AGM/page3&highlight=agm+notes

Thanks for that. So it was at the 2010 AGM RP was asked the question about short term players contacts and answered that it was the managers decision.

And from the notes of, and credit to, Barcahibs of the 2010 AGM

In his time as Chief Exec he has NEVER told a manager who to buy or who to sell. All managers have been involved in and agreed to all sales. He said that he never would tell a manager what to do in that event either, saying that was a dangerous route to go down. He was not in favour of the board getting involved with signings as one questioner seemed to want.

Seems to contradict what we are being told on this thread.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 07:43 PM
I always laugh at quotes like this, 2 scottish cups a 2nd in league (deemed almost impossible) and finishing top 3 about 7 out of 10 years is SIGNIFICATNLY better than we have acheieved :cool2:

I wont admit that to a Jambo but it is true.

2 cups versus our 1 cup and a couple more opportunities to get papped out the first round in Europe than we've had for what, 30 - 40 million quid in spending / debt?

Doesn't sound like a fair exchange to me does it?

For the budget they have, finishing any less than third is an utter disaster, my point being that despite their spending, it has not brought the level of constant success that some on here would suggest more spending would bring.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:44 PM
I always laugh at quotes like this, 2 scottish cups a 2nd in league (deemed almost impossible) and finishing top 3 about 7 out of 10 years is SIGNIFICATNLY better than we have acheieved :cool2:

I wont admit that to a Jambo but it is true.

Hearts have finished 2nd once, third three times and fourth once

We have finished third twice and fourth twice in the same time.

Removed
16-01-2011, 07:46 PM
2 cups versus our 1 cup and a couple more opportunities to get papped out the first round in Europe than we've had for what, £30 - £40 million quid in spending / debt?

Doesn't sound like a fair exchange to me does it?

For the budget they have, finishing any less than third is an utter disaster, my point being that despite their spending, it has not brought the level of constant success that some on here would suggest more spending would bring.

:agree: And apart from the past few weeks most of the yams I know are like us at the moment. Disillusioned.

They won't admit it but they would rather be in our position long term than their own.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 07:46 PM
Hearts have finished 2nd once, third three times and fourth once

We have finished third twice and fourth twice in the same time.

Sorry over what period was that ?

How did we do in the Scottish cup? In that time?

ScottB
16-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Of course only one man deals with contracts at Easter Road. And it isn't the Manager.

Frankly, determining the amount of money going about to players is an area for the Board, working with the manager of course. The manager identifies targets or suggests which players should be given new deals, then it is up to the Board to do the negotiating.

Do any clubs allow their managers free hand to do all the financial side of transfer and contract negotiations?

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Sorry over what period was that ?

How did we do in the Scottish cup? I that time?

Thats over 12 seasons (including last season)

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:48 PM
Sorry over what period was that ?

How did we do in the Scottish cup? In that time?

I refuse to answer that one on the grounds that I may have to kill myself

ScottB
16-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Sorry over what period was that ?

How did we do in the Scottish cup? In that time?

And how did they do in the League Cup?

Let's leave aside the big cup / wee cup nonsense for now. Fundamentally they are the exact same thing in terms of how easy or not it may be to win one.

They've spent god knows how many more times the amount we have to win one more cup and get knocked out of europe a couple of times more than us, while we've also managed to build a top class training centre and finish our stadium. I can't say I ever look over the road and think 'gee if only we'd had 2 matches in the Champions League years ago!'

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Thanks for that. So it was at the 2010 AGM RP was asked the question about short term players contacts and answered that it was the managers decision.

And from the notes of, and credit to, Barcahibs of the 2010 AGM

In his time as Chief Exec he has NEVER told a manager who to buy or who to sell. All managers have been involved in and agreed to all sales. He said that he never would tell a manager what to do in that event either, saying that was a dangerous route to go down. He was not in favour of the board getting involved with signings as one questioner seemed to want.

Seems to contradict what we are being told on this thread.

Doesn't contradict anything in my eyes - you can interpret that statement any way you like - especially the bit "all managers have been involved in and agreed to all sales".

You trying to tell us that Mowbray enthusiastically embraced the sale of O'Connor prior to THAT semi-final against that lot that left him having to field Benji as his only forward in his first competitive game in Scotland?

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Frankly, determining the amount of money going about to players is an area for the Board, working with the manager of course. The manager identifies targets or suggests which players should be given new deals, then it is up to the Board to do the negotiating.

Do any clubs allow their managers free hand to do all the financial side of transfer and contract negotiations?

I think it also attempts to preserve the relationship between the manager and the player if the manager is not directly involved.

Although to suggest he has no input whatsoever is absurd.

silverhibee
16-01-2011, 07:53 PM
They should be playing to win new contracts, if not with us then with someone else. They should ber playing for their wages, for pride, and for the players next to them whose futures may also depend on the success (or at least lack of total failure) of the football club.

What if the biggest majority of them have signed pre-contracts with new clubs and are just seeing the season out with Hibs and making sure they dont pick up any injuries till they move in the summer.:greengrin

ScottB
16-01-2011, 07:55 PM
Doesn't contradict anything in my eyes - you can interpret that statement any way you like - especially the bit "all managers have been involved in and agreed to all sales".

You trying to tell us that Mowbray enthusiastically embraced the sale of O'Connor prior to THAT semi-final against that lot that left him having to field Benji as his only forward in his first competitive game in Scotland?

But isn't that true of any club? Any manager is always going to want to keep their best players. Did Sir Alex Ferguson want to sell Ronaldo? Barca have sold players Guardiola wanted to keep. Walter Smith has done a lot of moaning about transfer policy at Rangers in recent times.

Presumably, when a bid comes in that's too good to refuse, I would expect most managers to grudgingly accept it as in the long term interest for the club.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 07:58 PM
And how did they do in the League Cup?

Let's leave aside the big cup / wee cup nonsense for now. Fundamentally they are the exact same thing in terms of how easy or not it may be to win one.

They've spent god knows how many more times the amount we have to win one more cup and get knocked out of europe a couple of times more than us, while we've also managed to build a top class training centre and finish our stadium. I can't say I ever look over the road and think 'gee if only we'd had 2 matches in the Champions League years ago!'

Over the last 20 years they have done Significantly better than us in League postions and in the REAL Cup. CIS cup is Mickey Mouse until the final FACT I could not even tell you who is in the Semi's this year.

Dont mention our record in Derbies over the last 30 years it is a Disgrace. Fat Jim has lost only 20% of Derbies he has managed


Would I swap place ? Eh No. But Please dot say they have not done Significantly better than us.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 07:59 PM
Sorry over what period was that ?

How did we do in the Scottish cup? In that time?

Actually in the last ten years we have been beaten semi-finalists three times and beaten finalists once. Hearts have won the trophy once and been beaten semi-finalists once.

This surprised me.

Dr Jimmy
16-01-2011, 08:00 PM
The fact that we sold Stokes on the last day of the window would suggest that Petrie held out for as much as he could get (not saying that is bad or that he did get top dollar, altho we clearly didnt). But it did show he was in charge, I can't believe Yogi would have let that happen if it was left to him.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 08:02 PM
The fact that we sold Stokes on the last day of the window would suggest that Petrie held out for as much as he could get (not saying that is bad or that he did get top dollar, altho we clearly didnt). But it did show he was in charge, I can't believe Yogi would have let that happen if it was left to him.

This was done at the AGM as well.

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:03 PM
Over the last 20 years they have done Significantly better than us in League postions and in the REAL Cup. CIS cup is Mickey Mouse until the final FACT I could not even tell you who is in the Semi's this year.

Dont mention our record in Derbies over the last 30 years it is a Disgrace. Fat Jim has lost only 20% of Derbies he has managed


Would I swap place ? Eh No. But Please dot say they have not done Significantly better than us.

Real cup :faf:

Would I swap our respective current positions both on and off field and cup/league record for theirs.

No chance.

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 08:04 PM
Frankly, determining the amount of money going about to players is an area for the Board, working with the manager of course. The manager identifies targets or suggests which players should be given new deals, then it is up to the Board to do the negotiating.

Do any clubs allow their managers free hand to do all the financial side of transfer and contract negotiations?

No of course not Scott.

I was merely making the point that the Chairman is directly and completely involved in contract deals. So he has responsibility for the 16 OOC situation.

I'm intrigued by the suggestion that it was engineered by Yogi. Yogi couldnae engineer hee haw.

There is no precedent for this situation that I know of, so it is a HUGE risk. Which is surprising considering how risk averse we are as a Club.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:04 PM
Actually in the last ten years we have been beaten semi-finalists three times and beaten finalists once. Hearts have won the trophy once and been beaten semi-finalists once.

Which far exceeds anything we have done, I also remeber a 0 - 4 semi

Face facts over the last 30, 20, or 10 years Hearts League Postion, Record in Derbies and Scottish cup is Significantly better than that of Hibs.

As I said would I swap NO but the facts dont lie if you argue otherwise you are deluded.

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:07 PM
Which far exceeds anything we have done, I also remeber a 0 - 4 semi

Face facts over the last 30, 20, or 10 years Hearts League Postion, Record in Derbies and Scottish cup is Significantly better than that of Hibs.

As I said would I swap NO but the facts dont lie if you argue otherwise you are deluded.

And other folk are saying that is not worth £30M.

Not sure why you are labouring the point?

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:07 PM
Real cup :faf:

Would I swap our respective current positions both on and off field and cup/league record for theirs.

No chance.

I agreed with you, but are you suggesting the league cup in it's curent state is not a Joke until the final?
In 1991 it was a decent comp not now No Way Absolutely NO INTEREST until the final now.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 08:09 PM
No of course not Scott.

I was merely making the point that the Chairman is directly and completely involved in contract deals. So he has responsibility for the 16 OOC situation.

I'm sure that at the time he and Yogi were involved in planning this situation. As I said earlier, it's not ideal, but the more dross we can bin at once, the more opportunity there is to get in some good players.


Which far exceeds anything we have done, I also remeber a 0 - 4 semi

Face facts over the last 30, 20, or 10 years Hearts League Postion, Record in Derbies and Scottish cup is Significantly better than that of Hibs.

As I said would I swap NO but the facts dont lie if you argue otherwise you are deluded.

Arguing about which of us is more successful is like a midget arguing with a dwarf about who is tallest.

Sure, they've done a bit better than us, but they've done it by vastly outspending us. Taking that into account I'd say they've underperformed by even more than we have.

Pedantic_Hibee
16-01-2011, 08:10 PM
What if the biggest majority of them have signed pre-contracts with new clubs and are just seeing the season out with Hibs and making sure they dont pick up any injuries till they move in the summer.:greengrin

Is this true or are you being mischievous? :greengrin

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:10 PM
And other folk are saying that is not worth £30M.

Not sure why you are labouring the point?

I am labouring the Point as their record in the league Postion, record in Derbies and the Scottish Cup in recent Times is Significantly better than ours. For other posters to claim it is not is nonesense.

Is it worth £30 Million No

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:10 PM
I agreed with you, but are you suggesting the league cup in it's curent state is not a Joke until the final?
In 1991 it was a decent comp not now No Way Absolutely NO INTEREST until the final now.

It's a cup. I want to win it end of. Don't see what the difference is tbh other than a euro place. The yams only slag it cos they haven't won it for half a century.

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 08:12 PM
No of course not Scott.

I was merely making the point that the Chairman is directly and completely involved in contract deals. So he has responsibility for the 16 OOC situation.

Good point - of course another angle is that if the club had broke with their usual cautious stance and had three guys lined up to sign on the 1st January, then we might have got more out of the current backsliders as they might have been worried about disappearing completely from view if there was 2/3 players ready to come in to take their place straight away.

Instead we sold our main CH (whatever his strenghs or weaknesses were) when the transfer window is barely open - maybe perversely enough, some of these sub-standard players share the views of some of us that any signings will be last-minute loanees that are no better than they are - so why should they bother?

Just a thought...

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:13 PM
Arguing about which of us is more successful is like a midget arguing with a dwarf about who is tallest.

Sure, they've done a bit better than us, but they've done it by vastly outspending us. Taking that into account I'd say they've underperformed by even more than we have. :agree:

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:14 PM
It's a cup. I want to win it end of. Don't see what the difference is tbh other than a euro place. The yams only slag it cos they haven't won it for half a century.

With the greatest repect you are being silly
Could you name the semi finalist this year? Could name last three winners with out google help?


NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE LEAGUR CUP UNTIL THE FINAL. It is played to a finish on the night makes the winner far more random than the Scottish cup it is a pointless comp now other than the final.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 08:14 PM
Which far exceeds anything we have done, I also remeber a 0 - 4 semi

Face facts over the last 30, 20, or 10 years Hearts League Postion, Record in Derbies and Scottish cup is Significantly better than that of Hibs.

As I said would I swap NO but the facts dont lie if you argue otherwise you are deluded.

In the last ten years Hearts have finished above us six times. They have finished bottom six once and we have been there three times out of ten. While their record is better than us in the last ten years its hardly overwhelming, and hardly reflective of the expenditure of both clubs.

joebakerforever
16-01-2011, 08:14 PM
Thanks for that. So it was at the 2010 AGM RP was asked the question about short term players contacts and answered that it was the managers decision.

And from the notes of, and credit to, Barcahibs of the 2010 AGM

In his time as Chief Exec he has NEVER told a manager who to buy or who to sell. All managers have been involved in and agreed to all sales. He said that he never would tell a manager what to do in that event either, saying that was a dangerous route to go down. He was not in favour of the board getting involved with signings as one questioner seemed to want.

Seems to contradict what we are being told on this thread.

While Petrie may not be involved in selecting targets, he will be involved in negotiating the financial terms.

So if players such as Steven Hammell and Darren Barr, who Collins and Hughes wished to sign, were then subsequently offered unattractive terms by Petrie, then who had the final say ?


Not unreasonable to assume that these managers would have indicated to RP beforehand what these players were seeking financially.

So why go through with the charade of offering unrealistically lower money ?

When it was reported that Hibs were allegedly competing with Aberdeen for getting Blackman on loan, most probably expected what eventually happened, given Petrie's "generous" reputation :wink:

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:17 PM
Arguing about which of us is more successful is like a midget arguing with a dwarf about who is tallest.

Sure, they've done a bit better than us, but they've done it by vastly outspending us. Taking that into account I'd say they've underperformed by even more than we have.

Okay I agree when compared to the OF or Aberdeen of the 80's But a "bit better" I think it is more than a bit better over the last 30 years I that period as I am 48 yrs old and in my time Hearts have had the upper hand in the vast majority of that time.

--------
16-01-2011, 08:17 PM
They should be playing to win new contracts, if not with us then with someone else. They should ber playing for their wages, for pride, and for the players next to them whose futures may also depend on the success (or at least lack of total failure) of the football club.

Aye, but whatever they SHOULD be doing, human nature being what it is, they're not doing it.

There's something more wrong at ER than just a string of duff managers signing a string of duff (or lazy, or cynical, or unmotivated) players.



As I said Doddie I'm pretty sure that the short term contracts were at Hughes request. I am trying to find this statement though, which I think was at the AGM, but I'm not sure.

Then Hughes was an even bigger fool than I thought he was. :rolleyes:



Sorry Doddie, I can't agree.

For example, De Graaf's on a 3 year deal.

The contract situation was engineered by Yogi.

I know that some of them are on longer-term contracts, and I knew DG was one. How many are due to leave in June? 14? 15? 16?

joebakerforever
16-01-2011, 08:33 PM
Thats what the man said, as reported by another poster and heard by those that were there. If you think he's not telling the truth then please say so.

Appears to be a comprehension difficulty here - try re-reading my post again.

Are you saying that the Manager has the final say in setting the financial package offered to potential signings ?

I was under the impression that Petrie negotiates the final offers to the likes of Hammell and Barr, which they declined.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:34 PM
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s47

To Be fair the stats on the link above over 11 years Hearts are not miles clear. Distorted a bit as we have one year less in the SPL.

My memeory must be bad or tainted by the 20 - 30 years prior to that.

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:35 PM
With the greatest repect you are being silly
Could you name the semi finalist this year? Could name last three winners with out google help?


NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE LEAGUR CUP UNTIL THE FINAL. It is played to a finish on the night makes the winner far more random than the Scottish cup it is a pointless comp now other than the final.

I couldn't do the same for the Scottish cup either so what does that prove?

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Appears to be a comprehension difficulty here - try re-reading my post again.

Are you saying that the Manager has the final say in setting the financial package offered to potential signings ?

I was under the impression that Petrie negotiates the final offers to the likes of Hammell and Barr, which they declined.

Is that how Tom Hart did it with Gordon Durie? :wink:

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Appears to be a comprehension difficulty here - try re-reading my post again.

Are you saying that the Manager has the final say in setting the financial package offered to potential signings ?

I was under the impression that Petrie negotiates the final offers to the likes of Hammell and Barr, which they declined.

Coupled with the idea that the simultaneous expiry of so many contracts was Yogis.

If this true then Mr Petrie has been complicit in placing the Club in grave danger as he does have a role to play in signing, resigning and negotiating with players.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:40 PM
I couldn't do the same for the Scottish cup either so what does that prove?

That your not very good a Scottish football Trivia :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:42 PM
That your not very good a Scottish football Trivia :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

:agree: :greengrin

joebakerforever
16-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Appears to be a comprehension difficulty here - try re-reading my post again.

Are you saying that the Manager has the final say in setting the financial package offered to potential signings ?

I was under the impression that Petrie negotiates the final offers to the likes of Hammell and Barr, which they declined.

Is that how Tom Hart did it with Gordon Durie? :wink:

Watch out, his ghost might haunt you :greengrin

Certainly more chance of the departed getting us out of doo doo than the present bunch of zombies.

ScottB
16-01-2011, 08:45 PM
Coupled with the idea that the simultaneous expiry of so many contracts was Yogis.

If this true then Mr Petrie has been complicit in placing the Club in grave danger as he does have a role to play in signing, resigning and negotiating with players.

I don't see what would be a better option than what we are doing given the squad we have. Given that we have no clubs champing at the bit to take them off us, and paying them all off would be a rather expensive undertaking.

Secondly, I think the state of our squad is being overhyped, if some of them bothered their ars* there is no reason they shouldn't be capable of survival, if not better, regardless of their contract situations.

As for offering deals to Barr, considering the Yams weighed in and offered him £9k a week or whatever madness, it's all a bit irrelevant, and indicative of the difference in spending between the two of us.

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 08:46 PM
:agree: :greengrin


Sorry could not resist.

Sorry about going about their record, just REALY FED Up at the moment.

It can only get better I hope

EasterRoad4Ever
16-01-2011, 08:51 PM
Petrie and Calderwood need to recognise the perilous position the club is in and just pay a premium in the Jan window for the key players Calderwood has identified to build his team around. If CC doesn't have his prime summer targets identified already then he should be shot. Petrie will just have to pay the extra to get them in early.

Fail to that then not only does he jeopardise the clubs SPL status but future revenue will crash through lack of ST sales. Who in the right mind would pay £400+ to watch that current bunch of losers ?

Iggy Pope
16-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Watch out, his ghost might haunt you :greengrin

Certainly more chance of the departed getting us out of doo doo than the present bunch of zombies.

As I recall, that particular departed, put us firmly in the doo-doo, May 1980.

Removed
16-01-2011, 08:58 PM
Sorry could not resist.

Sorry about going about their record, just REALY FED Up at the moment.

It can only get better I hope

:agree: but I don't really bother about their record. The limited number of yams I know don't either. They only use it to clutch at straws when the thought of oblivion gets too much to bear.

If You are any good at football quizzes, pm me. Looking to get a team in for a charity football quiz night on 17th Feb.

AndersonGGTTH
16-01-2011, 09:07 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs052.snc6/168220_193435197337340_100000125835785_784598_6649 486_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=784599&id=100000125835785)

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 09:15 PM
Appears to be a comprehension difficulty here - try re-reading my post again.

Are you saying that the Manager has the final say in setting the financial package offered to potential signings ?

I was under the impression that Petrie negotiates the final offers to the likes of Hammell and Barr, which they declined.

Thats why I deleted it JBF.

The management team will go into negotiation having fully discussed their options. Should we have signed Hammell given the dross JC had already signed? Who knows. Should we have paid either a)more than we could afford OR b)more than he was worth to get Barr? Again I dont know. I for one always felt that Barr fell into the Bobby Robson category of "not big enough for a centre half and not fast enough for a full back" He's not exactly set the heather on fire at the Yams.

I would imagine that most negotiations will take place between the current incumbent and Petrie about what the offer is likely to be and how much the manager wants a particular player. Undoubtedly the managers hand may well be weakened if he has already persuaded Petrie to push the boat on a couple of signings that dont work out as hoped.

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 09:21 PM
Thats why I deleted it JBF.

The management team will go into negotiation having fully discussed their options. Should we have signed Hammell given the dross JC had already signed? Who knows. Should we have paid either a)more than we could afford OR b)more than he was worth to get Barr? Again I dont know. I for one always felt that Barr fell into the Bobby Robson category of "not big enough for a centre half and not fast enough for a full back" He's not exactly set the heather on fire at the Yams.

I would imagine that most negotiations will take place between the current incumbent and Petrie about what the offer is likely to be and how much the manager wants a particular player. Undoubtedly the managers hand may well be weakened if he has already persuaded Petrie to push the boat on a couple of signings that dont work out as hoped.

For someone who has admitted he doesn't know Mr Petrie you are very good at using definite statements to describe the modus operandi at ER.

So "the management team will go into negotation" etc.

Do you know this is a fact or is it an assumption?

ScottB
16-01-2011, 09:31 PM
For someone who has admitted he doesn't know Mr Petrie you are very good at using definite statements to describe the modus operandi at ER.

So "the management team will go into negotation" etc.

Do you know this is a fact or is it an assumption?

Considering hardly any of us have any idea how the club operates, surely almost all of this is best guess? Doesn't stop people on either side of the debate from making blanket statements of course...

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 09:34 PM
:agree: but I don't really bother about their record. The limited number of yams I know don't either. They only use it to clutch at straws when the thought of oblivion gets too much to bear.

If You are any good at football quizzes, pm me. Looking to get a team in for a charity football quiz night on 17th Feb.

Thx for the offer but I cant remember what I for tea so no good at quizzes any more Good Luck

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 09:34 PM
For someone who has admitted he doesn't know Mr Petrie you are very good at using definite statements to describe the modus operandi at ER.

So "the management team will go into negotation" etc.

Do you know this is a fact or is it an assumption?

Because this is more likely than the manager having no input whatsoever, which you suggested earlier.

Do you know they dont?

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 09:40 PM
Because this is more likely than the manager having no input whatsoever, which you suggested earlier.

Do you know they dont?

I never said that. Input yes - but Mr Petrie deals with who comes in and who does not.

The Falcon
16-01-2011, 09:49 PM
I never said that. Input yes - but Mr Petrie deals with who comes in and who does not.

Of course only one man deals with contracts at Easter Road. And it isn't the Manager.

You say there is no other person dealing with contracts and add, quite categorically, that the manager isnt involved. Is the manager involved if he says who he wants or how long for? You dont mention "Input" at all.

Bad Martini
16-01-2011, 09:56 PM
The bottom line is, we have a fine looking stand, a brilliant training complex, very little debt and all of which seems to be under control.

NOW, is the time to start spending on players.

NOW, NOW NOW. Not in 1,2,3 or 4 years when even more debt and financial issues are "sorted". NOW - our team is sheite in the main. Our squad is poor and we've got less than a handful of decent quality on the PITCH.

The risk was taken with investing in the stand and the training centre. NOW, we need money in the team or we're going to have the best stadium and training facilities in the first division. I Recall watching most of the first division from the Famous Five stand...it was a nice vantage point watching us sort everyone out, I also seen a half empty stadium every week.....twas no fun.

SPEND now or lose even more....no more sheite or excuses. We're a fitba team who have forgotten how to play fitba, pass a ball, sign a player or perform for the fans (who pay for all this and without whom Petrie and ALL the rest would be doing **** all).

ENDOF

Cropley10
16-01-2011, 10:03 PM
You say there is no other person dealing with contracts and add, quite categorically, that the manager isnt involved. Is the manager involved if he says who he wants or how long for? You dont mention "Input" at all.

Read what I said again. Please will you stop trying to tie two points together to try and make a third.

Mibbes Aye
16-01-2011, 10:22 PM
Good point - of course another angle is that if the club had broke with their usual cautious stance and had three guys lined up to sign on the 1st January,

Just a thought...

Please, please, please give examples of any other clubs ever having three good signings all lined up on Jan 1st.

That's not how the transfer market works. Foolish to suggest it's even a possibility.

Which makes it just a cheap shot at the club IMO.

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Please, please, please give examples of any other clubs ever having three good signings all lined up on Jan 1st.

That's not how the transfer market works. Foolish to suggest it's even a possibility.

Which makes it just a cheap shot at the club IMO.


And you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

Leicester had a good signing lined up in the early hours of the window didn't they?

So was that a "unique" deal if "that's not how the transfer window works"?

Aberdeen have brought in players - "no stumbling blocks" with them was there?

Mibbes Aye
16-01-2011, 10:51 PM
And you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

Leicester had a good signing lined up in the early hours of the window didn't they?

So was that a "unique" deal if "that's not how the transfer window works"?

Aberdeen have brought in players - "no stumbling blocks" with them was there?

So, correct me if I'm wrong....

You're saying the club maybe could have broken with "their usual cautious stance", as you put it, and had three good players lined up on Jan 1st :agree:

But you can't really tell us of any other club that's delivered three good signings on Jan 1st? :confused:

Maybe you can tell us of three good signings who were available to Hibs on Jan 1st? Agreeable to our wage offer, right position, that sort of thing :agree:

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 10:59 PM
So, correct me if I'm wrong....

You're saying the club maybe could have broken with "their usual cautious stance", as you put it, and had three good players lined up on Jan 1st :agree:

But you can't really tell us of any other club that's delivered three good signings on Jan 1st? :confused:

Maybe you can tell us of three good signings who were available to Hibs on Jan 1st? Agreeable to our wage offer, right position, that sort of thing :agree:


I don't know - i was just having a cheap shot at the Board.

Wait a minute I can come up with 3 (which was way too ambitious for your palate obviously)... - the boy Blackman would've been one, Gardyne of Ross Co wouldv'e been another, Davidson of St Johnstone, Gomis of Dun Utd (out of contract at the end of the season). Oh wait the now, that's 4 i've gave you.

One decent one would've been nice in all honesty. I keep waiting to be surprised by this Board in terms of a flagship signing, especially as we will be relegated unless they act.

Maybe you can come up with 3 (or make that 1) you think would be "in our budget"?

--------
16-01-2011, 10:59 PM
The bottom line is, we have a fine looking stand, a brilliant training complex, very little debt and all of which seems to be under control.

NOW, is the time to start spending on players.

NOW, NOW NOW. Not in 1,2,3 or 4 years when even more debt and financial issues are "sorted". NOW - our team is sheite in the main. Our squad is poor and we've got less than a handful of decent quality on the PITCH.

The risk was taken with investing in the stand and the training centre. NOW, we need money in the team or we're going to have the best stadium and training facilities in the first division. I Recall watching most of the first division from the Famous Five stand...it was a nice vantage point watching us sort everyone out, I also seen a half empty stadium every week.....twas no fun.

SPEND now or lose even more....no more sheite or excuses. We're a fitba team who have forgotten how to play fitba, pass a ball, sign a player or perform for the fans (who pay for all this and without whom Petrie and ALL the rest would be doing **** all).

ENDOF

:top marks

Mibbes Aye
16-01-2011, 11:08 PM
I don't know - i was just having a cheap shot at the Board.

Wait a minute I can come up with 3 (which was way too ambitious for your palate obviously)... - the boy Blackman would've been one, Gardyne of Ross Co wouldv'e been another, Davidson of St Johnstone, Gomis of Dun Utd (out of contract at the end of the season). Oh wait the now, that's 4 i've gave you.

One decent one would've been nice in all honesty. I keep waiting to be surprised by this Board in terms of a flagship signing, especially as we will be relegated unless they act.

Maybe you can come up with 3 (or make that 1) you think would be "in our budget"?

So how do you guarantee they would come to us on Jan 1st? Can you tell us how much it would cost?

Or rather, what would we have offered them and how do you know that's within our capability?

I don't think you know but would be happy if you showed otherwise. I do agree with you though, you do take cheap shots at the club :agree:

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 11:10 PM
So, correct me if I'm wrong....

You're saying the club maybe could have broken with "their usual cautious stance", as you put it, and had three good players lined up on Jan 1st :agree:

But you can't really tell us of any other club that's delivered three good signings on Jan 1st? :confused:

Maybe you can tell us of three good signings who were available to Hibs on Jan 1st? Agreeable to our wage offer, right position, that sort of thing :agree:

...and if you're watching the BBC highlights just now, Derek McInnes appears to agree - "i'm surprised 2 weeks into the window they've not brought any players in" and then "they could do with 2 or 3 players".

He must have a problem with the Hibs Board, McInnes, to make cheap shots like that eh?

BEEJ
16-01-2011, 11:10 PM
They should be playing to win new contracts, if not with us then with someone else. They should ber playing for their wages, for pride, and for the players next to them whose futures may also depend on the success (or at least lack of total failure) of the football club.
Put yourself in the position of the majority of the squad that are out of contract and think through their motivation as they take the field.

Are they playing for the club or increasingly for themselves as the season wears on? Are they playing as individuals hoping to catch the eye of a scout or as a team who are in a tough place and who need to work hard together to get themselves out of it?

Its the scale of the player turnover that is the problem. Too many of them have a diminishing sense of identity with the club and with its predicament.

Daft, daft plan. Shows a poor understanding of team dynamics.


As I said Doddie I'm pretty sure that the short term contracts were at Hughes request. I am trying to find this statement though, which I think was at the AGM, but I'm not sure.
Yes. RP stated at the AGM that the contract situation was of Yogi's making. Latter did not deny this during the match commentary yesterday when David Begg raised the issue with him.

RP probably saw potential fiscal benefits from the plan as well.


Whats wrong with being radical? Yogi wanted to make it really clear the type of player he wanted at ER those who were prerpared to work hard for the jersey.

Therefore this method would sort the wheat from the chaff, and given the current economic climate it makes sense,why do you think RP agreed with it.Yogi knew this squad wasnt good enough,this way you get rid of 8/9 use that money to bring in better quality players and not have to pay out compensation.
See answers above. Too many 'leaving' at the one time, or uncertain about their contract situation, seriously undermines team spirit.


When Yogi started up at Eastmains he couldnt believe the culture or the state of the squad he had inherited,it was Yogi who got rid of the pool table and the plasma tv,it was Yogi who had them all wearing heart monitors and checking their weight Monday,which had been determined,then again on Friday.

If the players were back on target they werent fined! He had a dressing room populated with people who moaned,were half hearted at training,thought they should be at a bigger club, etc etc

One of the main problems was that Yogi,Mixu and JC were employees of the club putting them on par with the support team eg physios,they werent answerable to Yogi but Petrie, it was difficult to get everybody to embrace his vision,eg to have the same philosphy running from the wee teams to the big team,simple "pass and move"

He did have a vision whereas CC hasnt, as I said before CC didnt even apply for the job, how keen was he?
Well that sounds like inside information to me; so either you know Yogi or someone close to him or you've spoken to the man directly and got his version of events.

I have no doubt that he made changes and was thwarted in areas that he wanted to influence. But he also failed to get a grip on key disciplinary matters and was widely accused of having favourites in the dressing room. He may have had a 'vision' (he certainly kept telling us he had) but the execution of his plan for achieving it was deeply flawed.

As for CC - he applied for the job previously when Yogi got the job and was apparently second favourite in that round of interviews. So the Board presumably approached him this time as someone they were familiar with and who had already impressed during a recruitment process in order to save some time appointing a successor. A form of head-hunting.

And I guess the fact that CC took the job would tell us he was pretty keen to come in the end.


Sorry Doddie, I can't agree.

For example, De Graaf's on a 3 year deal.

The contract situation was engineered by Yogi.
De Graaf is only on a two year deal (mercifully) :greengrin

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20100615/edwin-de-graaf-signs-for-hibernian_2262950_2071334

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 11:14 PM
So how do you guarantee they would come to us on Jan 1st? Can you tell us how much it would cost?

Or rather, what would we have offered them and how do you know that's within our capability?

I don't think you know but would be happy if you showed otherwise. I do agree with you though, you do take cheap shots at the club :agree:

Back to me again?

The players i've offered up I humbly think would and should be within our budget - and a football man like Rod Petrie should be able to make it happen - i'd be interested to know what type of player do you think we should be going for?

Mibbes Aye
16-01-2011, 11:23 PM
...and if you're watching the BBC highlights just now, Derek McInnes appears to agree - "i'm surprised 2 weeks into the window they've not brought any players in" and then "they could do with 2 or 3 players".

He must have a problem with the Hibs Board, McInnes, to make cheap shots like that eh?


Back to me again?

The players i've offered up I humbly think would and should be within our budget - and a football man like Rod Petrie should be able to make it happen - i'd be interested to know what type of player do you think we should be going for?

:agree:

Let's just clarify, new malkyhib....

You don't know any club that has ever lined up three good signings on January 1st

You don't know what terms we can offer for three good signings on January 1st

You've mentioned a bunch of players but you don't know what wages they would want to come to Hibs.

But you think that we should of somehow, magically perhaps, have had three good signings on January 1st.

How does that work :confused:

sesoim
16-01-2011, 11:26 PM
So how do you guarantee they would come to us on Jan 1st? Can you tell us how much it would cost?

Or rather, what would we have offered them and how do you know that's within our capability?

I don't think you know but would be happy if you showed otherwise. I do agree with you though, you do take cheap shots at the club :agree:


Maybe it's unfair, but I can't help but compare everything CC is doing with Craig Brown. Brown came into Aberdeen when they were bottom, organized the team, inpired confidence, went on a good unbeaten run, climbed the table and also signed a couple of players when the window opened.

Colin Calderwood....hasn't.

Thank you Petrie for another great appointment. Pat yourself on the back for singlehandedly clearing our debt and building the East Stand and Training Facilities by yourself. In fact, why not give yourself a bonus like the nice bankers in our country.

new malkyhib
16-01-2011, 11:36 PM
:agree:

Let's just clarify, new malkyhib....

You don't know any club that has ever lined up three good signings on January 1st

You don't know what terms we can offer for three good signings on January 1st

You've mentioned a bunch of players but you don't know what wages they would want to come to Hibs.

But you think that we should of somehow, magically perhaps, have had three good signings on January 1st.

How does that work :confused:

I'll concede point one, i was maybe being slightly mischievous in suggesting Hibs could've broke the mould in signing maybe 2 then.

And I answered the other points you make in general terms in that we once again see another team signing a decent player on loan who should be within our reach (and with an apparent minimum level of fuss).

And yes, we should've had some signings lined up for January 1 - that plain enough?

As for the "cheap shot" comment, I think that's a cheap shot by yourself - after all i've never said that your posts re the Board are of the sycophantic cap-wringing variety have I?

carnoustiehibee
16-01-2011, 11:44 PM
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8436619/18/

check out post 346. petrie doesnt need any banners surely:confused::confused::confused:

Sammy7nil
16-01-2011, 11:49 PM
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8436619/18/

check out post 346. petrie doesnt need any banners surely:confused::confused::confused:

Check out the 15 posts or so after that "shocked at Hibs lack of quality" Serious relegation candidates" etc etc

Sir David Gray
16-01-2011, 11:50 PM
Saw the banner earlier on Sportscene. It was attached to the railing just along from where I sit and also just in front of me as well, so that'll be why I didn't see it.

IWasThere2016
17-01-2011, 03:00 AM
I understand this facility was available (still is apparently) but not used.

My recollection of the notes of the Fans Forum in November - as printed on here - is it was part cash/part borrowing for the East.

The Falcon
17-01-2011, 07:47 AM
My recollection of the notes of the Fans Forum in November - as printed on here - is it was part cash/part borrowing for the East.

If by using cash to pay/part pay for it means they have left themselves a bit stretched this window then, yes, given our current position, this may prove to be an error of judgment.

Kaiser1962
17-01-2011, 08:53 AM
For someone who has admitted he doesn't know Mr Petrie you are very good at using definite statements to describe the modus operandi at ER.

So "the management team will go into negotation" etc.

Do you know this is a fact or is it an assumption?

I think what he described was just good practice and probably accurate based on discussions I have witnessed, or had personally, at fans forums/AGM's.

That said I have no intention of getting involved in you two's little love-in that you are having. :greengrin

The Falcon
17-01-2011, 08:56 AM
I think what he described was just good practice and probably accurate based on discussions I have witnessed, or had personally, at fans forums/AGM's.

That said I have no intention of getting involved in you two's little love-in that you are having. :greengrin

Love-in? I wouldnt want to get between him and himself!

Phil MaGlass
17-01-2011, 10:09 AM
One or two folk on here are saying "wait until the window closes and see who we have signed and then complain or not". The window actually covers 6 games plus the cup, by the end of january we could already be at the point of no return, with Hamilton sniffing blood, players were needed two weeks ago, we should have sniffed players oot before january, then approached them straight away.
i fear for us being relegated, although we did have a healthy support when we went down and we actually won a few games. Mibbe a season in Div1 would do us a world of good who knows?

bingo70
17-01-2011, 10:32 AM
One or two folk on here are saying "wait until the window closes and see who we have signed and then complain or not". The window actually covers 6 games plus the cup, by the end of january we could already be at the point of no return, with Hamilton sniffing blood, players were needed two weeks ago, we should have sniffed players oot before january, then approached them straight away.
i fear for us being relegated, although we did have a healthy support when we went down and we actually won a few games. Mibbe a season in Div1 would do us a world of good who knows?

Think if i've worked it out right if we lose every game between now and the end of January (motherwell away and rangers at home...it could happen) and hamilton win them (inverness away and caley at home) they'll be two points ahead of us so hardly out of sight plus st mirren are still below us with dundee utd and st johnstone to play this month, these teams arent down the bottom of the league by winning all the time, they're as bad as us, in fact there worse.

Saying that, staying above these two clearly isn't the limit of our ambition so your right, we need players in starting today, however it's not as dramatic as your suggesting.

greenlex
17-01-2011, 11:28 AM
Think if i've worked it out right if we lose every game between now and the end of January (motherwell away and rangers at home...it could happen) and hamilton win them (inverness away and caley at home) they'll be two points ahead of us so hardly out of sight plus st mirren are still below us with dundee utd and st johnstone to play this month, these teams arent down the bottom of the league by winning all the time, they're as bad as us, in fact there worse.

Saying that, staying above these two clearly isn't the limit of our ambition so your right, we need players in starting today, however it's not as dramatic as your suggesting.
:agree:The right players either short loans or longer term are far more important than players for freshening things up sake.

Bad Martini
17-01-2011, 12:55 PM
The bottom line is, Hamilton are (marginally) worse than us. They SHOULD, by rights, end up relegated. That said, who knows....fitba is a radge game.

It's good to know that, despite our financial security and good facilities, stadium and youth system (!?!) we are languishing at the foot of the table with all the prospects of a toilet duck and with no real visionary to lead us out of this mess.

We better HOPE Hamilton stay sheitey to form.....they should, but its no guaranteed. I genuinely cannot believe we're in this mess (again) given the money we've brought IN to the club over the last 5 years....we have brought in PLENTY and made some good deals. Yet, we're going backwards on the pitch.

Some smart arse can tell us why and its all great but as noted, the decisions ultimately rest with the board. Yes, our managers have squandered some of the cash they gave them (crumbs) but THEY appointed the managers.....

ENDOF

DAZ86
17-01-2011, 02:23 PM
We have had major off-feild investment which has put us well ahead of Hearts , Aberdeen etc. We now need on-feild investment.

I hope it happens. Soon. As in now.

:flag: