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down-the-slope
14-01-2011, 07:02 PM
This is the real art of creating teams...where you bring together the individuals you have (or others you can bring in) to make a team that 'is more than the sum of the individuals'

It would be my view that so far the last 3 managers have failed to do that..and while we have had at times better individuals than other managers have had at their disposal, they have outdone us by creating a team...while too often we have performed well below the sum of the parts...

I am becoming more convinced that while there is some blame to be laid at the player...the majority falls to the manager.

I should also say that it if my belief that rarely do the best 11 individuals make the best team (I could use many..but take Man U - rarely does the 11 on the pitch constitute what most would see as the best 11 players available...thats because Fergie is a master of creating teams and blending different attributes to make it)

Collins and Mowbury did manage this to different extents (TM having better individuals to work with though)

Look at Aberdeen and think which players in November you would have swapped....maybe 2/3 ? they were a total mess. Enter Pa Broon & Archie...now these players have not had time to change as individuals...and yet the sum of the parts has improved significantly

So while its understandable given the current window that most threads are concerned with who may be coming or going, my view would be that creating a team first is more important than the transfer market...otherwise we could bring in good players whose contribution may not raise the sum of the parts.

Ask yourself this...when was the last time you saw a Hibs TEAM where 11 players were performing together to produce a performance that was greater than the sum of those individual. (i'm not talking about results)

TM often was critisiced for being less concerned with results compared with how the team performed (anyone remember 'we will win more than we will lose'?) I think he was someone who saw the bigger picture of getting 11 players to function beyond what they had as individuals (yes he always was looking for better individuals - but if you have not blended the individuals (resources) you have to the max...then surely you are underperforming.

Take Collins / Lewis Stevenson as an example of an individual who was not rated...but in a TEAM...he suddenly looked like a top level player..good management I would argue...


Why the long winded ramble (and no its not a way of digging at CC) ? Well its because the impression I get is a lot of people seem to be viewing how the season pans out as dependant on the comings and goings of 'the window'...where I see the ability to find a team and system that makes whatever individuals we have perform above that as the key...remember these castigated individuals beat Rangers 0-3 a few short weeks ago..it was no fluke, they deserved the win.

The level of individual we can 'afford' will be limited by finance and our (club / manager / board) ability to scout and attract them to the club (or the level of youngster we can 'grow') but if we can't blend this into the best team we can we will under acheive.....

I'm_cabbaged
14-01-2011, 07:08 PM
Are you allowed to post well thought out, sensible opinions on here?

persevere1875
14-01-2011, 07:47 PM
I would have hoped that despite some peoples views of the constant changes of personnel put on the pitch by CC, that what he's doing is precisley what you hope for, whilst he has the opportunity now to bring in some fresh faces, you have to hope that what he brings in is personnel who can fit into a team he has already identified with a view to moulding a team which is greater than the sum of its parts rather than a few faces on short term deals who can get us through the season and gaurantee survival.

He strikes me as a bright guy, I fail to believe that Mr Calderwood went into this job without knowing exactly what he was getting into, he'd have went through the contracts and know who's is up, when and how much that release's into the pot, what he's got transfer budget wise and than had a good long look at what he has in the squad with a view to clearing the dross and bringing in the right sort of player, i dont believe the guy's in it for the short term, I dont believe he'd walk away from Newcastle to join Hibs with any thoughts of making a quick hit and moving on for better things, you've got to hope the guy know's exactly what he's up tooand the rest is then down to patience and trust I guess.

Pedantic_Hibee
14-01-2011, 08:03 PM
Good post DTS but I think the old adage of 'lead a horse to water but can't make it drink' rings true.

You can set out an XI, give a rousing team talk, drill into them what you expect, coax, cajole, put an arm round shoulders, fit a few backsides but ultimately,when they cross the white line it's up to them.

We've evidently got more than our fair share of shirkers in the team and I honestly think CC can't do any more than he is with them. He's not stupid, he's not thick, he's not shirking it himself. He needs time and we and the board need to give him that time.

Was he my first choice? No. Does he deserve time, respect and support? 100% yes.

Jimmy Belter
14-01-2011, 08:31 PM
Goods Points..........

John Collins...........4th & 6th i think ?

T M 3rd, 4th & left season 6th ?

Oh and TM had players below....
S Whittaker,Scott Brown,M Stewart, Steven Fletcher, Gary O ` Connor, C Killen &
Deek.....................THINK I would have won the league with lot...........

down-the-slope
15-01-2011, 08:30 AM
Are you allowed to post well thought out, sensible opinions on here?

:rolleyes: probably not...don't worry I will be back to posting usual drivel from now on :greengrin

hibsbollah
15-01-2011, 08:38 AM
I agree in principle with what you're saying but its a bit of both, creating a team 'greater than the sum of its parts' is going to be a long haul when that team has a spine of defenders who cant pass to a teammate 10 yards away, midfielders who run about all day to no great effect, and forwards who spend all afternoon running offside and falling over. We need major surgery first.

Having a) a good manager who can blend a team together and b)that team having quality players sprinkled throughout it, is what we need to do. Feels like the start of a very long journey:cool2:

down-the-slope
15-01-2011, 08:57 AM
I agree in principle with what you're saying but its a bit of both, creating a team 'greater than the sum of its parts' is going to be a long haul when that team has a spine of defenders who cant pass to a teammate 10 yards away, midfielders who run about all day to no great effect, and forwards who spend all afternoon running offside and falling over. We need major surgery first.

Having a) a good manager who can blend a team together and b)that team having quality players sprinkled throughout it, is what we need to do. Feels like the start of a very long journey:cool2:


But that could have been said about Aberdeen until recently...same squad...different TEAM. Which is essence the point...some managers can polish a Turd

I have a feeling that we could bring any player DOWN to the level we are playing at the moment. De Graff has been criticised to death...you have to ask how has a player who had so many plaudits in a better league than the SPL and was wanted by other goods teams looked at times so out of place :rolleyes:

We can only hope we see a TEAM today...if we do then as we did for that one brief game at Ibrox we can beat anyone in this league even without new players coming in....

If the manager cant create teams that are 'greater than the sum of the parts' then there is no point in letting him spend money

down-the-slope
15-01-2011, 03:32 PM
there were signs for a period in the first half of some cohesion ... then back to being way below the sum of the parts with players hiding