Brian MacLean - Falkirk

[NW]

Heard he could be the first signing!!! Not really inspiring.
Centre Half

[Pretty Boy]

When will Yogi learn with these ex Falkirk players.:brickwall

[smurf]

Emptied at Motherwell.

We could sign Alan Reid or Ross Chisolm and many would suggest it is evidence of the manager being backed by the board....

[Beefster]

If true, this will get the fans flocking back. Replace Bamba with Brian McLean.

I doubt he's even Falkirk's best player.

[Cropley10]

Nonsense.

[Ritchie]

hope not!

[GreenPJ]

I have no idea if there is any truth in the rumour but I thought this guy was relatively highly rated and when the Barr rumours were going about lots of people suggested we should be going for MacLean instead of Barr

[Wilson]

Steady on everyone. I don't know what calibre of player would be acceptable but if you are looking for a 'name' or a permanent transfer from a 'big' club then you may end up disappointed.

Someone complained of selling Bamba to bring in the likes of McLean but Bamba himself wasn't exactly an inspiring transfer at the time.

Surely the important thing is that the manager would have identified problems and is getting the opportunity to get his own men in to address them. We have to back him and his judgement. That is what he is there for.

[Walter]

Brian Mclean was stalwart in my charge to the SPL and Scottish Cup double with Hibs in Football Manager.

The pr*ck left me on a bosman though

[BSEJVT]

I will await CC's signings with interest partly to see who they are ( I think we need to be realistic in our expectations) but more importantly as I beleive they will signal what CC sees is most wrong with the team and how he is going to set us out to play.

TBH my hope is that he signs someone with the playing characteristics of Barton, Lennon, Savage or Bowyer. (none of them are even the remotest of possibilities and all are despicable human beings)

IMO we need some nastiness, battling quailities and fight in this team more than we need Messi (who is apparently weighing up offers from us and Workington reserves as we speak, regrettably though Workington reserves financial package is better)

[MoantheCabbage]

I heard we had offers for Puyol, Vidic, Terry and Ferdinand all turned down.

Do they not know that its the mioghty Hibs asking for their signature

[smurf]

I heard we had offers for Puyol, Vidic, Terry and Ferdinand all turned down.

Do they not know that its the mioghty Hibs asking for their signature

Yeah because that is the expectation within the support....

No point in ridiculing - or attempting to - the support who rightly want to see an injection of realistic quality into one of the weakest most pathetic Hibs sides in our lifetime.

[steviecarnie]

Savage

announced on twitter he is leaving derby and has an offer from MLS but unlikely to take it due to family, he did joke that his last resort would be SPL!!!

[Andy74]

Emptied at Motherwell.

We could sign Alan Reid or Ross Chisolm and many would suggest it is evidence of the manager being backed by the board....

Aye, you are a trier, I'll give you that.

[Ritchie]

announced on twitter he is leaving derby and has an offer from MLS but unlikely to take it due to family, he did joke that his last resort would be SPL!!!

that would be a fantastic signing and would instantly become my favourite ever hibs player.

(would never happen though)

[Albion Hibs]

Dont know much about this guy, but we do need someone to partner Hanlon at CH. Dickoh is not the answer I dont think.

Wait and see, as long as we get someone!!

[GloryGlory]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2009/06/16/hearts-set-to-pinch-brian-mclean-from-motherwell-86908-21444801/

:devil:

[Wilson]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2009/06/16/hearts-set-to-pinch-brian-mclean-from-motherwell-86908-21444801/

:devil:

Screw it then. Not hibs class :wink:

[MoantheCabbage]

There is also no point in thinking we will sign some kind of superstar either. People need to wake up an realise that signing players from lower divisions is what clubs need to do these days.

Various SPL clubs have signed players from lower divisions in Scotland who are now recognised SPL player.

Gomis - Cowdenbeath
Swanson - Berwick
Dixon - Dundee
Andy Webster - Cowdenbeath

These are just a few off the top of my head im pretty sure there has been plenty more.

We are not big enough to bring in real quality established player. The scottish game is in tatters. Staurt Mcacall said yesterday the he was out bidded by an English non league team

[MoantheCabbage]

Yeah because that is the expectation within the support....

No point in ridiculing - or attempting to - the support who rightly want to see an injection of realistic quality into one of the weakest most pathetic Hibs sides in our lifetime.

Just out of interest who do you see as the quality Hibs should be be getting into the team?

[JimBHibees]

I have no idea if there is any truth in the rumour but I thought this guy was relatively highly rated and when the Barr rumours were going about lots of people suggested we should be going for MacLean instead of Barr

Yep he is from what I remember a decent solid centre half pretty much what we are looking for IMO.

[smurf]

Aye, you are a trier, I'll give you that.

Signing a junior on a hundred quid a week would be confirmation of board backing in your eyes...

[smurf]

Just out of interest who do you see as the quality Hibs should be be getting into the team?

Webster from the Huns is one.

[Wilson]

There is also no point in thinking we will sign some kind of superstar either. People need to wake up an realise that signing players from lower divisions is what clubs need to do these days.

Various SPL clubs have signed players from lower divisions in Scotland who are now recognised SPL player.

Gomis - Cowdenbeath
Swanson - Berwick
Dixon - Dundee
Andy Webster - Cowdenbeath

These are just a few off the top of my head im pretty sure there has been plenty more.

We are not big enough to bring in real quality established player. The scottish game is in tatters. Staurt Mcacall said yesterday the he was out bidded by an English non league team

:agree:

To a certain extent we have been missing a trick by not exploiting this market. For hibs it seems that a dud with a Dutch name or any French ex-prospect is better than an aspiring first division star already accustomed to Scottish football.

[hibs0666]

Webster from the Huns is one.

All we need to do is magic up a nice six figure signing-on fee and a £10K a week salary and he'll be here like a shot. :rolleyes:

[smurf]

All we need to do is magic up a nice six figure signing-on fee and a £10K a week salary and he'll be here like a shot. :rolleyes:

He's out of contract in the summer. Smith obviously doesn't rate him.

Helped Dundee Utd win the Scottish Cup last season.

Possible and realistic for a club with an average gate of 6000 but not us in your opinion.

Why not?

[Andy74]

He's out of contract in the summer. Smith obviously doesn't rate him.

Helped Dundee Utd win the Scottish Cup last season.

Possible and realistic for a club with an average gate of 6000 but not us in your opinion.

Why not?

Dundee Utd had him on loan last year. Do you think it is possible that Dundee Utd will sign him on a permanent basis now?

I doubt it, I think he'd head South if he leaves Rangers.

[Ritchie]

He's out of contract in the summer. Smith obviously doesn't rate him.

Helped Dundee Utd win the Scottish Cup last season.

Possible and realistic for a club with an average gate of 6000 but not us in your opinion.

Why not?

wouldnt say that.

think its got more to do with the fact he wont drop weir or bougherra.

can see webster being a replacement for weir when his legs eventually pack in or Bougherra who will be away to a bigger club shortly.

[smurf]

Dundee Utd had him on loan last year. Do you think it is possible that Dundee Utd will sign him on a permanent basis now?

I doubt it, I think he'd head South if he leaves Rangers.

My point is that he's at a minimum a realistic target to sign on loan.

No?

[SmokieJoe]

When will Yogi learn with these ex Falkirk players.:brickwall

Yogi is back in the hot seat?

[Ritchie]

Yogi is back in the hot seat?

WHO & OOOOOSH!! :wink:

[Andy74]

Signing a junior on a hundred quid a week would be confirmation of board backing in your eyes...

What you talking about??

In my eyes signing 9 players since last January, all of whom, from the Board's perspective, were expensive and of a good pedigree, show backing by the Board.

We've signed Brown, Smith, Dickoh, de Graaf, Hart, Duffy, Trakys, as well as Gow and Grounds in that time.

Where on earth do you get the junior comment from? You question and moan but you've never backed up anything you've said and now it appears you don't pay attention to anything anyone actually says.

Taking away current form from these players, as you seem to be blaming the Board and not the players or management, looking at it from the point of signing these players they all had backgrounds which meant they looked better quality than we had and would have cost accordingly.

If you insist on talking about lack of backing at least look into what has happened over the last year.

[blackpoolhibs]

wouldnt say that.

think its got more to do with the fact he wont drop weir or bougherra.

can see webster being a replacement for weir when his legs eventually pack in or Bougherra who will be away to a bigger club shortly.

I agree, and that day is very close imo.:agree:

[Andy74]

My point is that he's at a minimum a realistic target to sign on loan.

No?

Do you know if he's available on loan?

You seem to suggest you just pick a player and that's it, we can have him.

[JimBHibees]

Webster from the Huns is one.

Has he not been injured most of the season.

[Stevie Reid]

Has he not been injured most of the season.

And is quality cover for their first choice centre halves. A team pushing for all 3 trophies, still in Europe and desperate to bring more players in, are hardly going to let somebody of Webster's quality go on loan to an SPL rival IMO.

Putting him out on loan to Dundee Utd was an exercise in getting him fit and playing regularly. It's just ironic that he's been injured almost from the moment he returned to Ibrox.

[MoantheCabbage]

My point is that he's at a minimum a realistic target to sign on loan.

No?

Dundee Utd wanted him back on loan and rangers wouldnt allow it.

Even if he is out of contract in the summer we still could not afford to pay his wages.

Im not saying we should accept mediocrity but as a Scottish team we should be looking at the lower levels of the game for people who can make a differnce and in light of our current squad Mclean would do that.

All other teams in the SPL do it and none of them complain about being a certain class of player. Its up to the manager to unearth these guys and the board and fans alike have to give any manager and his thoughts a chance.

[ionahibby]

Although not inspired by this signing usually these are the sort of signings that work their socks off and probably is the sort of player who would help us in a relegation fight imho. But if this is true and we do sign him will wait and to see him play play before i air my views the guy deserves that at least!

[hibs0666]

He's out of contract in the summer. Smith obviously doesn't rate him.

Helped Dundee Utd win the Scottish Cup last season.

Possible and realistic for a club with an average gate of 6000 but not us in your opinion.

Why not?

Dundee United got Webster only because the huns paid the vast majority of his wages whilst he was on loan. In no way, shape or form can we afford Webster.

[yekimevol]

hes a big strong lad at the back is that not what people have been asking for :S

i mean its not the huge signing people have been wanting but it is what people have been asking for.

[HibbyAndy]

Seen him play for Falkirk twice last season, And im on record on here saying he was much the better CH than Darren Barr on both occasions.

[GloryGlory]

Although not inspired by this signing usually these are the sort of signings that work their socks off and probably is the sort of player who would help us in a relegation fight imho. But if this is true and we do sign him will wait and to see him play play before i air my views the guy deserves that at least!

Has the signing been confirmed?

[Dr Jimmy]

Is he cup tied?

[sam armstrong]

Good post, Hibs will improve as a club when we get a decent manager who can get the right blend of player and mould them in to a team. That does not necessarily mean so called big name players who have failed elsewhere. Whether Calderwood is the manager who can do this we don't know yet.





What you talking about??

In my eyes signing 9 players since last January, all of whom, from the Board's perspective, were expensive and of a good pedigree, show backing by the Board.

We've signed Brown, Smith, Dickoh, de Graaf, Hart, Duffy, Trakys, as well as Gow and Grounds in that time.

Where on earth do you get the junior comment from? You question and moan but you've never backed up anything you've said and now it appears you don't pay attention to anything anyone actually says.

Taking away current form from these players, as you seem to be blaming the Board and not the players or management, looking at it from the point of signing these players they all had backgrounds which meant they looked better quality than we had and would have cost accordingly.

If you insist on talking about lack of backing at least look into what has happened over the last year.

[Diclonius]

He was ****ing awesome when I resigned him for Motherwell from Falkirk on FM. Get him signed up. :agree:

[JimBHibees]

Is he cup tied?

Afraid so played against Jags.

[Andy74]

Falkirk fan I just asked said he would be a poor signing for us. Not commanding for his height and equally poor with both feet.

Flynn had mentioned as well recently? Said he was generally like a boy playing a man's game!

Still, what do Falkirk fans know about anyhting?

[Ritchie]

Falkirk fan I just asked said he would be a poor signing for us. Not commanding for his height and equally poor with both feet.

Flynn had mentioned as well recently? Said he was generally like a boy playing a man's game!

Still, what do Falkirk fans know about anyhting?

they did predict hughes would be a flop at hibs.

[Speedway]

Falkirk fans online offering to drive him here.

[SmokieJoe]

WHO & OOOOOSH!! :wink:

Did you read the post i replied to?:na na:

[Andy74]

they did predict hughes would be a flop at hibs.

Flopping into 4th place would be ideal right around now.

[smurf]

What you talking about??

In my eyes signing 9 players since last January, all of whom, from the Board's perspective, were expensive and of a good pedigree, show backing by the Board.

We've signed Brown, Smith, Dickoh, de Graaf, Hart, Duffy, Trakys, as well as Gow and Grounds in that time.

Where on earth do you get the junior comment from? You question and moan but you've never backed up anything you've said and now it appears you don't pay attention to anything anyone actually says.

Taking away current form from these players, as you seem to be blaming the Board and not the players or management, looking at it from the point of signing these players they all had backgrounds which meant they looked better quality than we had and would have cost accordingly.

If you insist on talking about lack of backing at least look into what has happened over the last year.

We have a difference of opinion.

Yours is that the board back the manager ex exceptionally well. Mine is the contrary.

The Junior player comment was intended as a light hearted comment that obviously you didn't appreciate.

My point was that you will pretty much always say.... and you say it often enough... that the board back the manager very well.

You illustrate the 9 signings. Though of course the reality is that its only actually 7 proper signings.

How many players have left the club in this period?

And all 7 were signed not requiring a transfer fee for their services.

Though of course we have sold players in that period collecting transfer fees.

So its pretty easy to claim the manager is being backed by the board but closer analysis maybe paints something different.

And answer me this....

Did John Hughes want to sign Gow permanently?

Why didn't it happen?

[Ritchie]

Flopping into 4th place would be ideal right around now.

i knew the old Andy 4th place statistic would be used as a reply to my post! :rolleyes:

[Craig_in_Prague]

Flopping into 4th place would be ideal right around now.

christ, you're getting boring.

Fat Boab nearly lifted a cup (in hindseight I'm glad maybe he didn't - would've stuck around longer), would that have made him something great too?

We are where we are NOW is coz of Hughes!! Yes, his dross scraped us into europe, but the form in 2010 showed we were heading backwards, and fast.

His cup records, derby records, 6-6 draw at motherwell, inept performances in perth, away to hamilton, st mirren and so on, were terribly painful and quite clearly he never sorted the fact we're a 'soft touch' despite having well over a year to do so.

Hughes is gone, lets wish him well but please stating the 'fact' he got us 4th all the time papers so many cracks its unreal.
time to move on, support CC and look forward to a different side that will get us even a TAD excited again. Not something we could ever get under Hughes!

[Ritchie]

christ, you're getting boring.

Fat Boab nearly lifted a cup (in hindseight I'm glad maybe he didn't - would've stuck around longer), would that have made him something great too?

We are where we are NOW is coz of Hughes!! Yes, his dross scraped us into europe, but the form in 2010 showed we were heading backwards, and fast.

His cup records, derby records, 6-6 draw at motherwell, inept performances in perth, away to hamilton, st mirren and so on, were terribly painful and quite clearly he never sorted the fact we're a 'soft touch' despite having well over a year to do so.

Hughes is gone, lets wish him well but please stating the 'fact' he got us 4th all the time papers so many cracks its unreal.
time to move on, support CC and look forward to a different side that will get us even a TAD excited again. Not something we could ever get under Hughes!

i agree with everything you say but to be fair it wasnt andy that mentioned Hughes in this instance, it was me! :greengrin

[Andy74]

We have a difference of opinion.

Yours is that the board back the manager ex exceptionally well. Mine is the contrary.

The Junior player comment was intended as a light hearted comment that obviously you didn't appreciate.

My point was that you will pretty much always say.... and you say it often enough... that the board back the manager very well.

You illustrate the 9 signings. Though of course the reality is that its only actually 7 proper signings.

How many players have left the club in this period?

And all 7 were signed not requiring a transfer fee for their services.

Though of course we have sold players in that period collecting transfer fees.

So its pretty easy to claim the manager is being backed by the board but closer analysis maybe paints something different.

And answer me this....

Did John Hughes want to sign Gow permanently?

Why didn't it happen?

I'll only try and suggest the manager has been backed if he has been.

7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me.

We have had fees in that time and we've also built a new East Stand. My feeling is that that's the right way to go, there's not many clubs paying fees these days, certainly not ones still in debt, making an annual loss due to the manager being continually given a bigger budget in challenging times, and not when completing a stadium.

Hughes did not want Gow permenantly. He chose to get in a big striker instead.

Incidentally we paid fees for Maka and O'Brien whereas in the past we've got the likes of Boozy and Murphy for free.

[PaulSmith]

In my eyes signing 9 players since last January, all of whom, from the Board's perspective, were expensive and of a good pedigree, show backing by the Board.

We've signed Brown, Smith, Dickoh, de Graaf, Hart, Duffy, Trakys, as well as Gow and Grounds in that time.

.

Hart - Hughes wanted him 12 months before he was able to sign him
Duffy - on loan from Bristol
Trakys - Didn't have a club
Gow - loan signing
Grounds - loan signing
Dickoh- Playing reserve football in Holland

plus 2 goalkeepers.

Backing the previous manager would have been signing Arfield, Barr and Kyle.

[Andy74]

Hart - Hughes wanted him 12 months before he was able to sign him
Duffy - on loan from Bristol
Trakys - Didn't have a club
Gow - loan signing
Grounds - loan signing
Dickoh- Playing reserve football in Holland

plus 2 goalkeepers.

Backing the previous manager would have been signing Arfield, Barr and Kyle.

Here was me trying to have a discussion about the real world as well.

And we are talking about trying to get players in January, they will all come under the category of free to leave or on loan.

If we are turning our noses up at Championship players we had targetted for a year or internationals who have played about 80 games in the Dutch league then we might as well just shut up shop as nothing else is going to happen.

A real shame we didn't pay £6k a week to sign Barr. Gutted.

[Stevie Reid]

Fat Boab nearly lifted a cup (in hindseight I'm glad maybe he didn't - would've stuck around longer), would that have made him something great too?

Yes

[Andy74]

Yes

Great is a bit strong but it would have been a success, same as getting 4th place would be.

[Stevie Reid]

Great is a bit strong but it would have been a success, same as getting 4th place would be.

Any Hibs manager winning a trophy is a great to me. BW would have been no different had we won the League Cup under him.

[smurf]

7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me.

Apologies for just replying in part to your appreciated reply... I'm off to do the school run...:greengrin

7 permanent signings and two loans does sound good but in recent times what is the numbers and quality that has LEFT?

Look at it another way....

Under Hughes...

We sell Steven Fletcher for what? £2.5 Million + 500K add ons through clauses?

As his replacement we sign Anthony Stokes for what 300K (Though Hughes claims he never spent a penny on buying a player)

Then 12 months later we sell him for 800K and replace him with a loan signing from Bristol Rovers as the window 'slams shut'.

So you could argue that in every signing of Anthony Stokes and Daryl Duffy the board have backed the manager.

But did they really back him?

[Billy Whizz]

Had a look on the Falkirk Fans forum. Nothing about this on their site?

[Ritchie]

Had a look on the Falkirk Fans forum. Nothing about this on their site?

http://www.onefinfalkirk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

[Billy Whizz]

http://www.onefinfalkirk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Must have missed it. Well spotted. They seem however to getting their info from Hibs supporters!

[Kaiser1962]

Emptied at Motherwell.

We could sign Alan Reid or Ross Chisolm and many would suggest it is evidence of the manager being backed by the board....

Thats despicable. I dont recall Chisholm or Reid giving less than 100% effort.

Who do you think we should sign, thats available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

[Cropley10]

I'll only try and suggest the manager has been backed if he has been.

7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me.

We have had fees in that time and we've also built a new East Stand. My feeling is that that's the right way to go, there's not many clubs paying fees these days, certainly not ones still in debt, making an annual loss due to the manager being continually given a bigger budget in challenging times, and not when completing a stadium.

Hughes did not want Gow permenantly. He chose to get in a big striker instead.

Incidentally we paid fees for Maka and O'Brien whereas in the past we've got the likes of Boozy and Murphy for free.

You see, to me Andy, this just comes across as another example of trolling. You seem to just keep on repeating the same thing over and over again, irrespective of any counter-arguments that are expressed....

Eg "7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me" -well where are we with these signings? Right down the bottom of the League. Who else wanted these players? No-one as far as I know.

You say Gow, wasn't a Hughes target? Well there were people at EM who will tell you Gowser's kit was on the plane to Holland pre-season, that's how much JH wanted him and certain he was to get him. Never happened. Ditto with Barr - you say good thing - well he's gotta be better than Hogg surely?

So yes we bought some players, we had to - but what did we buy and for how much? Judging by form in 2010 - we bought cheap, and we will now pay twice.

The Board have given themselves an unprecedented mountain to climb, IMO, between now and July/August we need to sign a whole new team. Scary.

[Cropley10]

Thats despicable. I dont recall Chisholm or Reid giving less than 100% effort.

Who do you think we should sign, thats available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

I'm sorry that is not a reasonable or realistic question.

Maybe you could try answering the question - who would you sign that's available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

[Diclonius]

I'm sorry that is not a reasonable or realistic question.

Maybe you could try answering the question - who would you sign that's available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

I'd sign Brian McLean. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

As you would expect Cropley10 I am going to disagree with you, although the points you make are valid in that I dont know about Gow, but I would back Andy and say that Hughes signings were of a decent enough pedigree to have expected more from them and they have been disappointing to say the least.

The Club have given themselves a large task (I do not distinguish between the mangement and board) and I am hopeful.


You see, to me Andy, this just comes across as another example of trolling. You seem to just keep on repeating the same thing over and over again, irrespective of any counter-arguments that are expressed....

Eg "7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me" -well where are we with these signings? Right down the bottom of the League. Who else wanted these players? No-one as far as I know.

You say Gow, wasn't a Hughes target? Well there were people at EM who will tell you Gowser's kit was on the plane to Holland pre-season, that's how much JH wanted him and certain he was to get him. Never happened. Ditto with Barr - you say good thing - well he's gotta be better than Hogg surely?

So yes we bought some players, we had to - but what did we buy and for how much? Judging by form in 2010 - we bought cheap, and we will now pay twice.

The Board have given themselves an unprecedented mountain to climb, IMO, between now and July/August we need to sign a whole new team. Scary.

[superfurryhibby]

I'm sorry that is not a reasonable or realistic question.

Maybe you could try answering the question - who would you sign that's available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?


:top marks

[Billy Whizz]

I'd sign Brian McLean. :greengrin

I thought he was the best player on the park in our 2-0 Victory over Falkik at ER last season!

[Kaiser1962]

I'm sorry that is not a reasonable or realistic question.

Maybe you could try answering the question - who would you sign that's available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

I have no idea.

But I am not the one belittling former players or supposed signing targets. Maybe he dosent like MacLean ( I havent seen him in the flesh since he was at Motherwell) but I feel sure Derek Adams will know him.

[Andy74]

You see, to me Andy, this just comes across as another example of trolling. You seem to just keep on repeating the same thing over and over again, irrespective of any counter-arguments that are expressed....

Eg "7 permanent signings and 2 loans over 2 windows is pretty good going for me" -well where are we with these signings? Right down the bottom of the League. Who else wanted these players? No-one as far as I know.

You say Gow, wasn't a Hughes target? Well there were people at EM who will tell you Gowser's kit was on the plane to Holland pre-season, that's how much JH wanted him and certain he was to get him. Never happened. Ditto with Barr - you say good thing - well he's gotta be better than Hogg surely?

So yes we bought some players, we had to - but what did we buy and for how much? Judging by form in 2010 - we bought cheap, and we will now pay twice.

The Board have given themselves an unprecedented mountain to climb, IMO, between now and July/August we need to sign a whole new team. Scary.

Okay, you want to report me to an admin and see how far you get!

Bizarre suggestion that having the same view and sticking to it is trolling, when there are dozens of threads just now attacking the Board then you should expect a counter argument.

I've given the facts there and I've said pretty clearly that from a Board criticism view you can't take into account the form of those players. They were identified by the manager and all were a pedigree that suggests we had to pay decent wages for them.

That's what the Board can do. Losing £2m a year and keeping the budget the same or increasing it suggests they are pushing the boat out as it is.

[smurf]

Thats despicable. I dont recall Chisholm or Reid giving less than 100% effort.

Who do you think we should sign, thats available, affordable and you could guarantee would come to the club?

"Despicable"? A bit OTT...

Never questioned their commitment to the cause. They were though poor quality.

[Kaiser1962]

"Despicable"? A bit OTT...

Never questioned their commitment to the cause. They were though poor quality.

Ok perhaps despicable was a bit OTT. I dont see any need though as they were Hibs laddies who tried but just didnt make it here.

You could have used other examples, Christ there are plenty of them.

[Cropley10]

The Club have given themselves a large task (I do not distinguish between the mangement and board) and I am hopeful.

:agree: - the Club have done this...


I have no idea.

But I am not the one belittling former players or supposed signing targets. Maybe he dosent like MacLean ( I havent seen him in the flesh since he was at Motherwell) but I feel sure Derek Adams will know him.

I don't think anyone was belittling Chis, he was a trier but not good enough for the SPL. I think they were an example of the quality of player we released, who if we re-signed (extreme situation I know) - you could still argue that Caldo would have been backed.

[Cropley10]

Okay, you want to report me to an admin and see how far you get!

Bizarre suggestion that having the same view and sticking to it is trolling, when there are dozens of threads just now attacking the Board then you should expect a counter argument.

I've given the facts there and I've said pretty clearly that from a Board criticism view you can't take into account the form of those players. They were identified by the manager and all were a pedigree that suggests we had to pay decent wages for them.

That's what the Board can do. Losing £2m a year and keeping the budget the same or increasing it suggests they are pushing the boat out as it is.

Don't worry I've reported you loads but nothing happens :wink:

Let me ask you one simple question, in the past 5 years, have the Board ever made a mistake and if they have, what was it....

[Kaiser1962]

:agree: - the Club have done this...



I don't think anyone was belittling Chis, he was a trier but not good enough for the SPL. I think they were an example of the quality of player we released, who if we re-signed (extreme situation I know) - you could still argue that Caldo would have been backed.

But your assuming that if he did resign them that it might not be his decision? What if he wanted to sign them would he be being backed then?

[Cropley10]

But your assuming that if he did resign them that it might not be his decision? What if he wanted to sign them would he be being backed then?

I was trying to point out that cr@p in = cr@p out. Signing players isn't the issue, it's signing a quality of player who will improve this squad. Heaven knows we need it. The only test is - that new signings improve the quality - that is the (only) backing the Club needs to provide to the manager.

[Kaiser1962]

I was trying to point out that cr@p in = cr@p out. Signing players isn't the issue, it's signing a quality of player who will improve this squad. Heaven knows we need it. The only test is - that new signings improve the quality - that is the (only) backing the Club needs to provide to the manager.

But what Andy was saying was that we have signed players of a seemingly decent pedigree, unlikely to come cheap, and it has not worked out as hoped.

We signed Bamba from Dunfermline and it went ok up till the point he didnt want to be here. We cant sign established stars so all our signings are likely to be a bit of a gamble. All the truly big money has come from players we have raised ourselves.

[Feed McGraw]

Flopping into 4th place would be ideal right around now.


Probably the grimmest 4th place ever attained by Hibs, not just the way they got there, but the "prize" too - Intertoto in disguise.

[erin go bragh]

they did predict hughes would be a flop at hibs.
wonder how many on here would take a 4th place finnish this season and then say calderwood was a flop:rolleyes:

[BEEJ]

You illustrate the 9 signings. Though of course the reality is that its only actually 7 proper signings.

How many players have left the club in this period?

And all 7 were signed not requiring a transfer fee for their services.

Though of course we have sold players in that period collecting transfer fees.

Nine departures in the same period, although no-one left in January 2010.

January 2011
Jonathan Grounds
Souleymane Bamba
Lee Currie

Summer 2010
Anthony Stokes
Yves MaKalambay
Abdesallam Benjelloun
Patrick Cregg
Darren McCormack
Alan Gow

January 2010
No departures

[ancient hibee]

I have no idea if there is any truth in the rumour but I thought this guy was relatively highly rated and when the Barr rumours were going about lots of people suggested we should be going for MacLean instead of Barr
I was one.I thought he was far better than Barr and got on with his job instead of trying to look good.

[ScottB]

Apologies for just replying in part to your appreciated reply... I'm off to do the school run...:greengrin

7 permanent signings and two loans does sound good but in recent times what is the numbers and quality that has LEFT?

Look at it another way....

Under Hughes...

We sell Steven Fletcher for what? £2.5 Million + 500K add ons through clauses?

As his replacement we sign Anthony Stokes for what 300K (Though Hughes claims he never spent a penny on buying a player)

Then 12 months later we sell him for 800K and replace him with a loan signing from Bristol Rovers as the window 'slams shut'.

So you could argue that in every signing of Anthony Stokes and Daryl Duffy the board have backed the manager.

But did they really back him?

Seriously, what did you want / expect? The club to go spend 2 million quid on players?

It also ignores cash spent bringing in players on 'frees' I would expect Miller, Stokes and De Graff got substantial signing on fees for example.

Yes we've sold quality. But all these players wanted to go, were kept for a good length of time and raised good amounts of cash. Anyone who thinks we could then go out and sign a ready made replacement as good as Scott Brown or Steven Fletcher is living in cloud cuckoo land and it's getting repetitive on here.

Our best bets will always be our own youth players and uncovering guys with potential at lower league clubs. Pouring money down the drain paying the washed up / trouble making / hasbeen 'quality players' that so many seem to think will solve all our problems is part or the reason we are in this mess to begin with, not the magic bullet to get us out of it.

[smurf]

Seriously, what did you want / expect? The club to go spend 2 million quid

Oh dear... I find it depressing how when one disagrees with your POV they go off on extremes in a pathetic attempt to ridicule your POV...

I don't think there is ANY Hibby who expects the club to spend two million pounds on a player.

That was not my point and fine well you know it.

I also think the overwhelming majority of supporters accept that of course these players HAD to be sold. So I don't understand why we keep getting the patronizing lectures on why we had to sell...

My issue as is many others is not that we are a selling club. And its NOT that we are not buying like-for-like replacements.... Again don't patronize us.

The issue is the level of reinvestment.

And no I'm not talking of going from 15% reinvestment to 100%...

[Cropley10]

Oh dear... I find it depressing how when one disagrees with your POV they go off on extremes in a pathetic attempt to ridicule your POV...

I don't think there is ANY Hibby who expects the club to spend two million pounds on a player.

That was not my point and fine well you know it.

I also think the overwhelming majority of supporters accept that of course these players HAD to be sold. So I don't understand why we keep getting the patronizing lectures on why we had to sell...

My issue as is many others is not that we are a selling club. And its NOT that we are not buying like-for-like replacements.... Again don't patronize us.

The issue is the level of reinvestment.

And no I'm not talking of going from 15% reinvestment to 100%...

:applause: :applause:

[Aubenas]

Our best bets will always be our own youth players and uncovering guys with potential at lower league clubs. Pouring money down the drain paying the washed up / trouble making / hasbeen 'quality players' that so many seem to think will solve all our problems is part or the reason we are in this mess to begin with, not the magic bullet to get us out of it.

:top marks:thumbsup::agree:

[ScottB]

Oh dear... I find it depressing how when one disagrees with your POV they go off on extremes in a pathetic attempt to ridicule your POV...

I don't think there is ANY Hibby who expects the club to spend two million pounds on a player.

That was not my point and fine well you know it.

I also think the overwhelming majority of supporters accept that of course these players HAD to be sold. So I don't understand why we keep getting the patronizing lectures on why we had to sell...

My issue as is many others is not that we are a selling club. And its NOT that we are not buying like-for-like replacements.... Again don't patronize us.

The issue is the level of reinvestment.

And no I'm not talking of going from 15% reinvestment to 100%...

Your argument was that the Board had not backed Yogi fully enough. He signed a striker from a Premiership club as his replacement. That strikes me as more than adequate backing. Then yes, he signed a guy on loan for a year, a guy who is in the last year of his contract, so if he is a success and wants to stay, he won't cost a fee, or is it only adequate backing if we have to pay a fee?

So what is it? How much more cash should we be spending exactly? In the window Fletcher left we signed Stokes and Miller, I would imagine between the two's signing on fees and anything we actually paid for Stokes you'd be looking at the best part of £500k.

And the argument again is, more cash does not equal better players. In our recent history far more often than not, more cash equals worse players. You failed to answer that part of the post while you were over reacting with your reply.

Secondly, we are making big losses as we are, so say we ramp up investment, where does the additional income come from to fund that long term? I must have missed the capacity crowds the last time we finished 3rd, or the millions in prize money for winning the League Cup!

[nortonhibby]

Yogi is back in the hot seat?

:greengrin

[PaulSmith]

Your argument was that the Board had not backed Yogi fully enough. He signed a striker from a Premiership club as his replacement. That strikes me as more than adequate backing. Then yes, he signed a guy on loan for a year, a guy who is in the last year of his contract, so if he is a success and wants to stay, he won't cost a fee, or is it only adequate backing if we have to pay a fee?

So what is it? How much more cash should we be spending exactly? In the window Fletcher left we signed Stokes and Miller, I would imagine between the two's signing on fees and anything we actually paid for Stokes you'd be looking at the best part of £500k.

And the argument again is, more cash does not equal better players. In our recent history far more often than not, more cash equals worse players. You failed to answer that part of the post while you were over reacting with your reply.

Secondly, we are making big losses as we are, so say we ramp up investment, where does the additional income come from to fund that long term? I must have missed the capacity crowds the last time we finished 3rd, or the millions in prize money for winning the League Cup!

Was that in the accounts Scott?

[khib70]

Oh dear... I find it depressing how when one disagrees with your POV they go off on extremes in a pathetic attempt to ridicule your POV...

I don't think there is ANY Hibby who expects the club to spend two million pounds on a player.

That was not my point and fine well you know it.

I also think the overwhelming majority of supporters accept that of course these players HAD to be sold. So I don't understand why we keep getting the patronizing lectures on why we had to sell...

My issue as is many others is not that we are a selling club. And its NOT that we are not buying like-for-like replacements.... Again don't patronize us.

The issue is the level of reinvestment.

And no I'm not talking of going from 15% reinvestment to 100%...

:top marks Spot on


Your argument was that the Board had not backed Yogi fully enough. He signed a striker from a Premiership club as his replacement. That strikes me as more than adequate backing. Then yes, he signed a guy on loan for a year, a guy who is in the last year of his contract, so if he is a success and wants to stay, he won't cost a fee, or is it only adequate backing if we have to pay a fee?

So what is it? How much more cash should we be spending exactly? In the window Fletcher left we signed Stokes and Miller, I would imagine between the two's signing on fees and anything we actually paid for Stokes you'd be looking at the best part of £500k.

And the argument again is, more cash does not equal better players. In our recent history far more often than not, more cash equals worse players. You failed to answer that part of the post while you were over reacting with your reply.

Secondly, we are making big losses as we are, so say we ramp up investment, where does the additional income come from to fund that long term? I must have missed the capacity crowds the last time we finished 3rd, or the millions in prize money for winning the League Cup!

So.....less cash equals better players, then? You don't always get what you pay for, but like anywhere else,you usually do. I remember the big influx of cheapo first division journeymen under Duff Jimmy. That went well, didn't it?

And after that, there was McLeish. Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli brought in, £750 grand invested in De LaCruz (and recouped twice over), Europe, Scottish Cup Final.

If the limit of our board's ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, then I'm disappointed,but not surprised. If the limit of our supporters' ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, I just plain despair. WTF's the point?

[Springbank]

:top marks Spot on



So.....less cash equals better players, then? You don't always get what you pay for, but like anywhere else,you usually do. I remember the big influx of cheapo first division journeymen under Duff Jimmy. That went well, didn't it?

And after that, there was McLeish. Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli brought in, £750 grand invested in De LaCruz (and recouped twice over), Europe, Scottish Cup Final.

If the limit of our board's ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, then I'm disappointed,but not surprised. If the limit of our supporters' ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, I just plain despair. WTF's the point?

Remember hearing JC's shopping list at the time he resigned.
It included Barry Robson, Jamie Smith, Steven Naismith and one other (can't recall who).
That was the style, I thought.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I look at these threads regarding board backing/not backing and wonder where it all really falls down.

The problem as I see it is the scouting network surely can't be up to scratch, or the previous managers perception of the players they have signed has been flawed. On paper a lot of the guys we have signed are seasoned professionals who have vastly underperformed. Perhaps not adapted to our game?

We have had a massive turnover in both players and managers, if we had found some more "gems" then the management turnover may well have been reduced but in addition would also probably have got us some more cash!

It is all about value, i don't mean value as cheap but look at some of the players some of the teams on lower wage budgets than us have at the moment. As opposed to spending more or less cash equating to better players, on our budget we should be able to collate a far stronger group of players than we currently have.

[Kaiser1962]

:
So.....less cash equals better players, then? You don't always get what you pay for, but like anywhere else,you usually do. I remember the big influx of cheapo first division journeymen under Duff Jimmy. That went well, didn't it?

And after that, there was McLeish. Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli brought in, £750 grand invested in De LaCruz (and recouped twice over), Europe, Scottish Cup Final.

If the limit of our board's ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, then I'm disappointed,but not surprised. If the limit of our supporters' ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, I just plain despair. WTF's the point?

Thats not what the man said. It does not necessarily follow that more expensive is better, its how to get the best out of what you've got.

McLeish also "invested" in the mother of all contracts for Paul Fenwick, amongst others. And signed some duds to boot. Overall, while de la cruz showed a profit I think McLeish lost money hand over fist but thats speculating to accumulate for you.

It would be great if all the signings went as well as De La Cruz but, in the real world they dont. You also seem to be saying that its the board that want MacLean when, the more likely scenario if this is even true, is that Adams has identified him as a possible.

We all want the same thing but there's no easy fix.

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2689846]Thats not what the man said. It does not necessarily follow that more expensive is better, its how to get the best out of what you've got.

McLeish also "invested" in the mother of all contracts for Paul Fenwick, amongst others. And signed some duds to boot. Overall, while de la cruz showed a profit I think McLeish lost money hand over fist but thats speculating to accumulate for you.

And £1m+ fees for Laursen and Kenny Miller. That coupled with the fee for De La Cruz, I think, put's Mcleish's account into credit.

Signing an up-and-coming young guy in the first division (of which Adams must know a few) would be a positive step, and at least display a modicum of ambition, and a sign of a decent scouting system.

Signing a first division journeyman who's been around mostly lower-league teams doesn't excite me, i'm afraid, and has all the hallmarks of a Duff Jimmy signing - perm any one of McQuliken, Elliot, Tosh, etc. We all know where we ended up the last time we signed guys of their "calibre".

[PaulSmith]

Thats not what the man said. It does not necessarily follow that more expensive is better, its how to get the best out of what you've got.

McLeish also "invested" in the mother of all contracts for Paul Fenwick, amongst others. And signed some duds to boot. Overall, while de la cruz showed a profit I think McLeish lost money hand over fist but thats speculating to accumulate for you.

It would be great if all the signings went as well as De La Cruz but, in the real world they dont. You also seem to be saying that its the board that want MacLean when, the more likely scenario if this is even true, is that Adams has identified him as a possible.

We all want the same thing but there's no easy fix.

Ulrik Laursen, signed on a decent pre contract and sold for £1.5m.
Kenny Miller also brought in £2m.


You've got to remember that the biggest reason we got into massive debt in the first place was a second bottom finish and the ultimately relegation to the first division.
We also had a full time restaurant in the FF which cost the club hundreds of thousands, we had an extra 50 FTE's as well as non playing staff.
There was also the collapse of the SKY deal which hit every club in the Scottish league, not just Hibs.

What I'm saying is that it's very easy to look back at the McLeish era and make a comment that we got into £16m (which btw still includes the 2 mortgages on the stands) due to 'spending to accumulate.'

[ScottB]

:top marks Spot on



So.....less cash equals better players, then? You don't always get what you pay for, but like anywhere else,you usually do. I remember the big influx of cheapo first division journeymen under Duff Jimmy. That went well, didn't it?

And after that, there was McLeish. Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli brought in, £750 grand invested in De LaCruz (and recouped twice over), Europe, Scottish Cup Final.

If the limit of our board's ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, then I'm disappointed,but not surprised. If the limit of our supporters' ambition is Falkirk's second best centre half, I just plain despair. WTF's the point?

Over the last few years we've paid big money to these so called quality players; Alan O'Brien, Makalambay, Liam Miller etc. Have they been worth it? Probably not. The first two in particular hung around for years on top dollar.

So we might be signing a Falkirk CH, big deal. We did alright signing one from Dunfermline didn't we? And Hearts did alright with a guy from Arbroath. This snobbishness from some around here with regards to lower league players is mystifying. Who the f*** are we likes?! Our rivals teams are full of cheaply bought guys from the lower leagues who have all gone on to do well for their clubs and / or be sold for a good profit.

My point is, we could go spend a fortune on another Liam Miller type, because the only 'quality' players we can get are damaged goods and take a big risk, or we can try and unearth a few gems in the lower leagues. Considering we have seen First Division players move to the Premiership, this notion that buying players from there is somehow beneath us or lacks ambition is utter nonsense.

[RickyS]

Over the last few years we've paid big money to these so called quality players; Alan O'Brien, Makalambay, Liam Miller etc. Have they been worth it? Probably not. The first two in particular hung around for years on top dollar.

So we might be signing a Falkirk CH, big deal. We did alright signing one from Dunfermline didn't we? And Hearts did alright with a guy from Arbroath. This snobbishness from some around here with regards to lower league players is mystifying. Who the f*** are we likes?! Our rivals teams are full of cheaply bought guys from the lower leagues who have all gone on to do well for their clubs and / or be sold for a good profit.

My point is, we could go spend a fortune on another Liam Miller type, because the only 'quality' players we can get are damaged goods and take a big risk, or we can try and unearth a few gems in the lower leagues. Considering we have seen First Division players move to the Premiership, this notion that buying players from there is somehow beneath us or lacks ambition is utter nonsense.

excellent post mate.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I too am missing the point about not buying lower division players. To me that is exactly where we should be looking. There and the juniors. Want to look back on our "glory years" and see where we signed most of our players from? Also, make them Scottish. Cannot for the life of me understand why lower league clubs (in engerlund as well) have to bring in foreigners. I have always looked at the lower divisions as the appentice teams. The good guys will move up. Personally I have no doubt that we will sign some players in this window. Still trusting Caldwell and the Board.

[BSEJVT]

Signing an up-and-coming young guy in the first division (of which Adams must know a few) would be a positive step, and at least display a modicum of ambition, and a sign of a decent scouting system.

Signing a first division journeyman who's been around mostly lower-league teams doesn't excite me, i'm afraid, and has all the hallmarks of a Duff Jimmy signing - perm any one of McQuliken, Elliot, Tosh, etc. We all know where we ended up the last time we signed guys of their "calibre".

We seldom if ever agree, but I agree entirely with your comments above.

At least young guys may have the ability to improve.

We have signed far too many guys too late in their career who have no scope for improvement in them and then expect them to perform at a higher level.

[sundo1875]

So calderwood was at the Falkirk stadium a couple of weeks ago looking at McLean not Flynn

[Septimus]

Maybe Calderwood sees in Mclean exactly what he is. A no nonsense centre half who will put the ball out of the park when that is where it should go. Maybe that is what CC wants and he feels that he can build a solid defence round a player of that type. My personal feeling is that Mclean was always more dependable central defender than Barr and I would trust CC, with the experience he has, backed by the First Division knowledge which our assistant mamager must have to land the right man for the job.

To build we have to lay solid foundations. Where they come from is irrelevant.

[Kaiser1962]

Ulrik Laursen, signed on a decent pre contract and sold for £1.5m.
Kenny Miller also brought in £2m.
You've got to remember that the biggest reason we got into massive debt in the first place was a second bottom finish and the ultimately relegation to the first division.
We also had a full time restaurant in the FF which cost the club hundreds of thousands, we had an extra 50 FTE's as well as non playing staff.
There was also the collapse of the SKY deal which hit every club in the Scottish league, not just Hibs.

What I'm saying is that it's very easy to look back at the McLeish era and make a comment that we got into £16m (which btw still includes the 2 mortgages on the stands) due to 'spending to accumulate.'

The bottom line is we lost money, we were losing mmoney before McLeish, while McLeish was there and for a while after he was gone.The cost of the main stand (and the new East) is with the Football Club on a mortgage type deal but costs of the build of the FF and the South were never in the clubs accounts. I could be wrong though as its early so forgive me as I dont have the details at home.

We were in debt long before the relegation although it certainly didnt help but McLeish's tenure showed significant loss after loss. The player sales softened the blow, as they do now, but it was still a hugely expensive time.

What I am saying is basically that while McLeish was there we spent a lot of money but, long term, what did we have to show for it? All the big salaried (by Hibs and non-OF standards) all dispersed, even McLeish at pretty much the first serious opportunity (remember the tearful speech on the pitch?), and the club, fans and subsequent managers have been left with the tab.

[Phil MaGlass]

Ulrik Laursen, signed on a decent pre contract and sold for £1.5m.
Kenny Miller also brought in £2m.


You've got to remember that the biggest reason we got into massive debt in the first place was a second bottom finish and the ultimately relegation to the first division.We also had a full time restaurant in the FF which cost the club hundreds of thousands, we had an extra 50 FTE's as well as non playing staff.
There was also the collapse of the SKY deal which hit every club in the Scottish league, not just Hibs.

What I'm saying is that it's very easy to look back at the McLeish era and make a comment that we got into £16m (which btw still includes the 2 mortgages on the stands) due to 'spending to accumulate.'

No it wasnt,well..not completely it was the fact that we owned a chain of dud restaurants through two ***** that brought the club to its knees and let mercer almost end our existance,thats where the massive debt came from.

oops seems someones already replied to that one.

[Cropley10]

Over the last few years we've paid big money to these so called quality players; Alan O'Brien, Makalambay, Liam Miller etc. Have they been worth it? Probably not. The first two in particular hung around for years on top dollar.

So we might be signing a Falkirk CH, big deal. We did alright signing one from Dunfermline didn't we? And Hearts did alright with a guy from Arbroath. This snobbishness from some around here with regards to lower league players is mystifying. Who the f*** are we likes?! Our rivals teams are full of cheaply bought guys from the lower leagues who have all gone on to do well for their clubs and / or be sold for a good profit.

My point is, we could go spend a fortune on another Liam Miller type, because the only 'quality' players we can get are damaged goods and take a big risk, or we can try and unearth a few gems in the lower leagues. Considering we have seen First Division players move to the Premiership, this notion that buying players from there is somehow beneath us or lacks ambition is utter nonsense.

Other than Leigh Griffiths move to Wolves, I'm trying to think of another Div 1 Scottish players moving to the Premiership, who are you thinking of??

[GloryGlory]

Other than Leigh Griffiths move to Wolves, I'm trying to think of another Div 1 Scottish players moving to the Premiership, who are you thinking of??

Not sure, but didn't Robert Snodgrass go to West Brom?

[Cropley10]

Ulrik Laursen, signed on a decent pre contract and sold for £1.5m.
Kenny Miller also brought in £2m.


You've got to remember that the biggest reason we got into massive debt in the first place was a second bottom finish and the ultimately relegation to the first division.
We also had a full time restaurant in the FF which cost the club hundreds of thousands, we had an extra 50 FTE's as well as non playing staff.
There was also the collapse of the SKY deal which hit every club in the Scottish league, not just Hibs.

What I'm saying is that it's very easy to look back at the McLeish era and make a comment that we got into £16m (which btw still includes the 2 mortgages on the stands) due to 'spending to accumulate.'

So was it paying massive wages or getting relegated or both?

Either way the dreaded 'R' word is what knackered our balance sheet.

I'm certain the Club recognise this.

My view is you get what you pay for - buy cheap, pay twice.

Of course there are a number of folk who can't wait to say Alan O'Brien, as the reason why we must never expect to get what we pay for. Of course Alan was a JC 'find' and says more, unfortunately, about John than it does about anything else.

[Billy Whizz]

Other than Leigh Griffiths move to Wolves, I'm trying to think of another Div 1 Scottish players moving to the Premiership, who are you thinking of??

Graham Dorrins as well.

[Ritchie]

Not sure, but didn't Robert Snodgrass go to West Brom?

your thinking of Dorrans

snodgrass went from livi to leeds

[Cropley10]

Not sure, but didn't Robert Snodgrass go to West Brom?

He did. Now at Leeds.

Any others. You'd think that Division was littered with them bearing in mind the comment:rolleyes:

[GloryGlory]

So was it paying massive wages or getting relegated or both?

Either way the dreaded 'R' word is what knackered our balance sheet.

I'm certain the Club recognise this.

My view is you get what you pay for - buy cheap, pay twice.

Of course there are a number of folk who can't wait to say Alan O'Brien, as the reason why we must never expect to get what we pay for. Of course Alan was a JC 'find' and says more, unfortunately, about John than it does about anything else.


I thought he was signed on the advice of Tommy Craig, who was coach at Newcastle before he became JC's assistant.

[GloryGlory]

your thinking of Dorrans

snodgrass went from livi to leeds

Yes, you're right. Graham Dorrans went to West Brom, Snodgrass to Leeds.

A few Livi players went down south to play at a reasonable level - James McPake went to the Championship with Coventry City, as well.

Edit:

Which goes to show that there is talent to be found in the SFL, if you look for it!

[PaulSmith]

No it wasnt,well..not completely it was the fact that we owned a chain of dud restaurants through two ***** that brought the club to its knees and let mercer almost end our existance,thats where the massive debt came from.

oops seems someones already replied to that one.

That was 10 years earlier and nothing to do with the debts accumulated in the late 90's early 2000's IMO.

[Ritchie]

He did. Now at Leeds.

Any others. You'd think that Division was littered with them bearing in mind the comment:rolleyes:

snodgrass has never played for west brom.

[Stevie Reid]

Signing a first division journeyman who's been around mostly lower-league teams doesn't excite me, i'm afraid, and has all the hallmarks of a Duff Jimmy signing - perm any one of McQuliken, Elliot, Tosh, etc. We all know where we ended up the last time we signed guys of their "calibre".

For what it's worth, McLean is 25 and this is his first season playing in the first division having joined Motherwell from Rangers before signing for Falkirk.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Jim Jeffries built the best Hearts team in my lifetime around players like Weir, McCann, Cameron and Hamilton who were all signed from the First Division.

[brog]

I checked out this thread to see what was happening with Brian McLean & instead found the usual pro board/anti board arguments. I'm afraid I'm really bored, can we keep these other interminable squabbles in the correct thread please?
Now, anyone know what's happening with Brian McLean??

[steakbake]

I checked out this thread to see what was happening with Brian McLean & instead found the usual pro board/anti board arguments. I'm afraid I'm really bored, can we keep these other interminable squabbles in the correct thread please?
Now, anyone know what's happening with Brian McLean??

:agree::agree:

It's horse***** of navel gazing.

Just get on with it. Anyone know what's the deal with Brian McLean then?

[Wilson]

:agree::agree:

It's horse***** of navel gazing.

Just get on with it. Anyone know what's the deal with Brian McLean then?

Nobody knows. We might not even be in for him.

Stop spoiling a good old rammy when you know fine well that the only confirmation we'll get is from the club when a deal is done.

[JimBHibees]

For what it's worth, McLean is 25 and this is his first season playing in the first division having joined Motherwell from Rangers before signing for Falkirk.

It's also worth bearing in mind that Jim Jeffries built the best Hearts team in my lifetime around players like Weir, McCann, Cameron and Hamilton who were all signed from the First Division.

I would agree he also had a serious knee injury when at Motherwell which no doubt put him back a bit. He is only 25 and has loads of years ahead of him.

[steakbake]

Nobody knows. We might not even be in for him.

Stop spoiling a good old rammy when you know fine well that the only confirmation we'll get is from the club when a deal is done.

You're quite right. It's very selfish of me to get in the way of a good ol' hibs.net barny about potentially absolutely nothing! :greengrin

We've not had a flag debate for a while.... :flag:

[Hibernia Na Eir]

dear oh dear if true.

Hibs will fall way behind top 6 if we revert to this kind of player.

[Sergio sledge]

Of course there are a number of folk who can't wait to say Alan O'Brien, as the reason why we must never expect to get what we pay for. Of course Alan was a JC 'find' and says more, unfortunately, about John than it does about anything else.

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

[Wilson]

Cracking post Sergio :top marks

[Stevie Reid]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

Superb post.

[J-C]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.


Summed up in one post what 5 pages have been trying to say :top marks

[scoopyboy]

dear oh dear if true.

Hibs will fall way behind top 6 if we revert to this kind of player.

We are already way behind top 6, no need to fall.

[soproni1]

any more news on whether we are actually signing him?

A mate of mine at work who supports Falkirk says he's excellent and really consistent (for them). Doesn't exactly fit the Hibs CB criteria does it?

[blackpoolhibs]

Summed up in one post what 5 pages have been trying to say :top marks

Not really what you are wanting on the other thread though is it? Talent is out there in our budget. We just need the man in charge to be able to spot them. We cant afford £750k players, we just cant, and anyone who thinks we ca, is living in fantasy island imo.

Its entirely down to the manager, whoever it is to identify players. We have a better budget than most, and should be doing a hell of a lot better with the tools available. CC gets his chance now and in the summer.

[swazzie]

dear oh dear if true.

Hibs will fall way behind top 6 if we revert to this kind of player.


What is it you don't like about him? Is he too slow? Gets caught ball-watching? Poor in the air? I'm afraid I don't know nearly enough about him to make a call like this

[ScottB]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

Absolutely spot on. Fed up of the 'we must spend more cause then we'll get better players' logic.

[ScottB]

He did. Now at Leeds.

Any others. You'd think that Division was littered with them bearing in mind the comment:rolleyes:

Yeah, cause that's exactly what I said isn't it. I said we've seen players go to the Premiership. We have. We've also seen more than a few head to the Championship, which is also a considerably higher standard than our league.

The primary point being there's nought wrong buying First Division players, nor is it some sort of lack of ambition or backing.

[Cropley10]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

You make some excellent points. The only criteria we should use is, is a new signing better quality than we have already. Not where he's come from or whether he cost or didn't.

We will only know this when we see them playing in the Green and White.

I don't think anyone wil argue we need better quality. We have too many very average players, that's what's costing us money IMO.

[KingFranck]

Sergio sledge - absolutely brilliant post my man and if you are not a journalist then apply to the Scotsman/Evening News as this is the best piece of journalism I have read in years.

[J-C]

Not really what you are wanting on the other thread though is it? Talent is out there in our budget. We just need the man in charge to be able to spot them. We cant afford £750k players, we just cant, and anyone who thinks we ca, is living in fantasy island imo.

Its entirely down to the manager, whoever it is to identify players. We have a better budget than most, and should be doing a hell of a lot better with the tools available. CC gets his chance now and in the summer.

I don't think in any of my posts Gary that I said we shouldn't be trying to get bargains if they are out there, we've managed to get them over the years but unfortunately we've been trying to buy the whole team on a budget. If you read my posts again you'll see I wanted 5-6 good quality players with the rest of the squad made up of players within the budget our board has been working with.

Your last paragraph I agree with totally but as you'll know we don't know what his budget actually is.

[bawheid]

If you read my posts again you'll see I wanted 5-6 good quality players with the rest of the squad made up of players within the budget our board has been working with.

So you want us to stick to the budget that is currently losing us £2m per annum, and on top of that add 6 players whose wages would not normally be within our budget. Yeah?

[Kaiser1962]

I thankyou :not worth


Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

[Speedway]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

Very balanced post, Sergio.

The pedant in me can't help pointing out that it was Mixu and not Collins that signed Van Zanten however. :na na:

[J-C]

So you want us to stick to the budget that is currently losing us £2m per annum, and on top of that add 6 players whose wages would not normally be within our budget. Yeah?


No, I want to replace the 12-16 or so out of contract players with 5-6 good decent players, the freed up wages would pay the slightly higher wages.

[bawheid]

No, I want to replace the 12-16 or so out of contract players with 5-6 good decent players, the freed up wages would pay the slightly higher wages.

I get you now, sorry. :agree:

A net loss of ten bodies from the squad might be stretching it a bit though. We'd have to be lucky with injuries and suspensions.

[blackpoolhibs]

No, I want to replace the 12-16 or so out of contract players with 5-6 good decent players, the freed up wages would pay the slightly higher wages.

I wouldn't be against that, although the figures you said earlier was 6 £750k players, what would you imagine those type of players would want in wages?

[Sunny1875]

Flopping into 4th place would be ideal right around now.

how true was that statement

[GreenCastle]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.

Sense at last :thumbsup::agree:

Scouts and the managers / assistant managers eye for a player is what it is all about.

No new player can be written off until they have at least been given a chance.

Too many on here judge a book by it's cover :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

No, I want to replace the 12-16 or so out of contract players with 5-6 good decent players, the freed up wages would pay the slightly higher wages.

The problem with this is that 25 different players took the field for Hibs last season, the season before that it was 30 and we have also used 25 on the pitch this season (so far). Thats not including unused subs. It could be argued the one of our better players Zemmama(two potentially in Duffy) have been long term injured which would upset the applecart a bit.

I see the logic in your thinking though.

[J-C]

I wouldn't be against that, although the figures you said earlier was 6 £750k players, what would you imagine those type of players would want in wages?


Again Gary read my post, I said instead of paying £300-400,000 for duds or flops,AOB/Maka etc, lets pay a bit more for a better quality player .

[blackpoolhibs]

The problem with this is that 25 different players took the field for Hibs last season, the season before that it was 30 and we have also used 25 on the pitch this season (so far). Thats not including unused subs. It could be argued the one of our better players Zemmama(two potentially in Duffy) have been long term injured which would upset the applecart a bit.

I see the logic in your thinking though.

Perhaps 3/4 million pound players don't get injured?

[J-C]

I get you now, sorry. :agree:

A net loss of ten bodies from the squad might be stretching it a bit though. We'd have to be lucky with injuries and suspensions.

16 are out contract for a reason, probably 10-12 will not get a new one, I genuinely can't see CC bringing in that many to cover, he'll more than likely add some youngsters that have been on loan.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Sergio, fabulous post :top marks

[NAE NOOKIE]

Great post Sergio and a good counter argument to the lets spend millions brigade.

Mind you, if Hibs did have millions I would like them to spend it now !!!

:greengrin

[Cropley10]

Great post Sergio and a good counter argument to the lets spend millions brigade.

Mind you, if Hbs did have millions I would like them to spend it now !!!

:greengrin

Where is this 'spend millions brigade'?:confused::confused: Seriously.

There's a 'stop buying dross brigade', I think.

Sergios post - for me - explains that we need to invest in quality - wherever, or however we can.

[jonny]

Yeah, cause that's exactly what I said isn't it. I said we've seen players go to the Premiership. We have. We've also seen more than a few head to the Championship, which is also a considerably higher standard than our league.

The primary point being there's nought wrong buying First Division players, nor is it some sort of lack of ambition or backing.

Don't agree with the highlighted part of your point at all - the rest is fair enough. Theres certainly a lot more money around down in the championship, but to take it like for like in league positions;
I dont think that QPR, Leeds or Norwich are any better than Celtic or Rangers, Doncaster or Leicester aren't any better than Dundee Utd or Killie, Scunthorpe or Preston aren't any better than Hibs or Hamilton.

[Ray_]

Don't agree with the highlighted part of your point at all - the rest is fair enough. Theres certainly a lot more money around down in the championship, but to take it like for like in league positions;
I dont think that QPR, Leeds or Norwich are any better than Celtic or Rangers, Doncaster or Leicester aren't any better than Dundee Utd or Killie, Scunthorpe or Preston aren't any better than Hibs or Hamilton.

Except when they play us off the park & our manager states that it is our aspirations to be that good:greengrin

[ScottB]

Where is this 'spend millions brigade'?:confused::confused: Seriously.

There's a 'stop buying dross brigade', I think.

Sergios post - for me - explains that we need to invest in quality - wherever, or however we can.

But that therein is the hard part. A lot of our dross look great on paper; Millers ex Man Utd and Celtic, Rankin and Nish were proven SPL players etc.

Just saying 'we must buy 'quality' doesn't really change much, unless anyone thinks Petrie intentionally sanctions the signing of crap players (which wouldn't make any fiscal sense, before the money angle comes into it).

As others have pointed out, with us, more often than not our best signings have been the guys nobody has ever heard of.

Personally I won't dismiss any signing, regardless of where they've come from till we see how they do once they've integrated into the team, as that's the only way to be sure.

[Cropley10]

But that therein is the hard part. A lot of our dross look great on paper; Millers ex Man Utd and Celtic, Rankin and Nish were proven SPL players etc.

Just saying 'we must buy 'quality' doesn't really change much, unless anyone thinks Petrie intentionally sanctions the signing of crap players (which wouldn't make any fiscal sense, before the money angle comes into it).

As others have pointed out, with us, more often than not our best signings have been the guys nobody has ever heard of.

Personally I won't dismiss any signing, regardless of where they've come from till we see how they do once they've integrated into the team, as that's the only way to be sure.

This debate is so polarised.

I agree, more often than not our best signings have been the guys nobody has ever heard of.

But when someone suggests a player who we have heard of who might cost us, we hear the name Alan OBrien. No-one had heard of AOB as I recall. But he did cost us a fortune for sweet fa.

[Sergio sledge]

You make some excellent points. The only criteria we should use is, is a new signing better quality than we have already. Not where he's come from or whether he cost or didn't.

We will only know this when we see them playing in the Green and White.

I don't think anyone wil argue we need better quality. We have too many very average players, that's what's costing us money IMO.

Agree 100%! If we can avoid relegation this season Calderwood has an excellent opportunity to reshape the squad almost entirely and hopefully get more quality and less quantity. We'll just have to wait and see i guess.

[ScottB]

This debate is so polarised.

I agree, more often than not our best signings have been the guys nobody has ever heard of.

But when someone suggests a player who we have heard of who might cost us, we hear the name Alan OBrien. No-one had heard of AOB as I recall. But he did cost us a fortune for sweet fa.

Indeed, it's more the folk who seem to have a logic that the Board are only backing the manager and showing ambition if they for example, sign a player from Newcastle or another big club, whereas if we bought a player from Partick Thistle, that's Petrie being tight and not showing ambition, that's what annoys me!

Example being that Celtic have just signed a player from Ayr, I bet they aren't torching their Board for that!

[jdships]

This debate is so polarised.

I agree, more often than not our best signings have been the guys nobody has ever heard of.

But when someone suggests a player who we have heard of who might cost us, we hear the name Alan OBrien. No-one had heard of AOB as I recall. But he did cost us a fortune for sweet fa.

Good post !!
Also a manager has to pick/buy players who can compliment each other / play to a system.
How often do we see a guy who doesn't make it with one club get a move and suddenly is a star in the making :greengrin

[smurf]

Indeed, it's more the folk who seem to have a logic that the Board are only backing the manager and showing ambition if they for example, sign a player from Newcastle or another big club, whereas if we bought a player from Partick Thistle, that's Petrie being tight and not showing ambition, that's what annoys me!

Example being that Celtic have just signed a player from Ayr, I bet they aren't torching their Board for that!

The issue isn't who we sign players from. The issue is the quality the players on the park in our shirts produce.

And that's the ultumate test of our signings.

[Andy74]

The issue isn't who we sign players from. The issue is the quality the players on the park in our shirts produce.

And that's the ultumate test of our signings.

And hardly a test the Board can make prior to them signing.

[Cropley10]

And hardly a test the Board can make prior to them signing.

The assertion being that buying a few more known quantities is a safer bet long term. Some of the 'quality' the Club have bought are complete gambles, and they've not paid off. Players with no real value, not sort after, nor with a pedigree or any sort of reputation, as an upcoming player. Look at De Graff and Hart, don't tell me that you'd have watched either of these two in April or May 10 and thought, yes please can we have him.

To survive Hibs have to sell players - we're not growing any of our own right now, at least who are worth anything now, so we have to sign plays we can sell.

It's called a false economy, sometimes known quality costs more, not millions more but more, than recent crop of players we've had did. The Board are complicit in this. But we did it with Bamba and we did it with Stokes, it can
be done and we need it now, no question - there are no men in that team.

[Bobby's Cinema]

And hardly a test the Board can make prior to them signing.
Who is suggesting that the board is to blame for the qualified success of players?

Surely thats on the head of the manager

We've already seen Bamba on the way out for a decent sum of money, with as of yet no reinvestment.

This being the case with the vast sums of money accumulated over the last number of years in particular, the lack of any significant reinvestment doesn't comfortably with some, including myself. Thats where people take issue.

[greenlex]

Alan O'Brien is the perfect example of how much of a lottery any signing is. AO'B was a highly rated youngster from a premiership club who were, by all accounts, keen to get him to sign a new deal. We persuaded him to sign for us and had to pay something in the region of £200k-£300k compensation to Newcastle for him. Ivan Sproule on a motorbike with a football brain, what a signing, exactly the type we should be making.

Ivan Sproule was a part time footballer from Northern Ireland who wasn't raising interest from anywhere else and was IIRC 24-25 when we signed him never having been a full time footballer. We paid £5k for him. Not Hibs class.

Who was expected to be the better player for Hibs? Who actually was the better player for Hibs? Which manager was backed properly by the board?

What about Chris Hogg. Highly rated youngster from a famed youth academy, England youth captain, the next Cannavaro. Signed on a free IIRC.

Rob Jones, 27 year old signed from Grimsby having been part time till he was 24. We paid IIRC £100k for him.

Who came with more expectation and who turned out to be a better player for Hibs?

Mowbray was backed by the board with his chasing and signing of Zemmama and Jones for fees, but he also signed Benji, Stewart, Boozy, Murphy and Killen for free.

Collins was backed by the board in signing Maka and AO'B for fees, but he also signed Kerr, Donaldson, Joneleit, Curier and Van Zanten for free.

Mixu was backed by the board in signing Riordan, Rankin, Bamba and Nish for fees, but he also signed Szamotulsk, Rosa, Johansson, Canning and Keenan for free.

Hughes was backed by the board in signing Stokes and Brown for fees, but he also signed Miller, De Graff, Hart, Dickoh, Stack, Smith, Duffy, Grounds, McBride and Cregg for free.

Summary: With the players we've paid fees for, Jones, Riordan, Bamba, Brown and Stokes have been successes, Zemmama is great but has he been value for money? Maka, AO'B, Nish and Rankin have been failures. Of the players who've been free I'd imagine there is probably a very similar strike rate with successes and failures.

Conclusion: It doesn't matter whether we pay a fee for a player or not what matters is the skills of the person who identified them, the attitude and application of the player, how he settles and gels with the new team and a whole lot of luck. Players have come with big reputations and failed, others have come with very low expectations and failed. Players have come with big expectations and been a success, others have come with low expectations and been a success.

Lets wait and see Calderwood and Adams' talent for spotting players before we go and say that a signing is good bad or indifferent.

Re: Board backing, we've signed a heck of a lot of players over the last few years, some have cost money but most haven't. Some will have been the managers first choices some won't, but I don't think there is a manager out there who gets his first choice signings all the time. The facts are that the board have consistently increased the wage bill at the club over the last few years despite dwindling incomes and at the same time have improved the club off the field hugely.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but considering we are losing £2m a year at the minute excluding player sales, I am happy that the board are putting as much as, if not more than, they can afford into the playing side at the minute.
Decent post Sergio and highlights the risk of signing any player.
I would think that although we did not pay a club for the "free" transfers there will almost definately be a signing on fee for all out of contract or freed players. The bigger the name or better the expierience the more the payment would be.

[The Falcon]

Was Rankin not a known quantity SPL player? ICT fans would have him back in a heartbeat. I recall Nish was similar.

If only things were as easy as you suggest.


The assertion being that buying a few more known quantities is a safer bet long term. Some of the 'quality' the Club have bought are complete gambles, and they've not paid off. Players with no real value, not sort after, nor with a pedigree or any sort of reputation, as an upcoming player. Look at De Graff and Hart, don't tell me that you'd have watched either of these two in April or May 10 and thought, yes please can we have him.

To survive Hibs have to sell players - we're not growing any of our own right now, at least who are worth anything now, so we have to sign plays we can sell.

It's called a false economy, sometimes known quality costs more, not millions more but more, than recent crop of players we've had did. The Board are complicit in this. But we did it with Bamba and we did it with Stokes, it can
be done and we need it now, no question - there are no men in that team.

[hibee_nation]

The issue isn't who we sign players from. The issue is the quality the players on the park in our shirts produce.

And that's the ultumate test of our signings.

That is the ultimate test of our managers, who so far have failed. The board are culpable as they hired the managers but to be fair we have generaly gone along and said they were decent appointments at the time. All of the managers have said they could ask no more of their players as they have been working their socks off in training. The bottom line is i have never been so underwhelmed by a squad of players in my lifetime of supporting Hibs. I think we have to face up to the harsh reality of it is, the Board are doing their best, the manager is doing his best, the players are doing their best and we are still a crap team. We will come good again.
GGTTH :flag:

[Cropley10]

Was Rankin not a known quantity SPL player? ICT fans would have him back in a heartbeat. I recall Nish was similar.

If only things were as easy as you suggest.

Nish and Rankin. Two players who are right on the edge of the managers' thinking.

If you think Nish and Rankin are the right sort of quality we need then you are most definitely at it, IMHO.

[Hiber-nation]

Was Rankin not a known quantity SPL player? ICT fans would have him back in a heartbeat. I recall Nish was similar.

If only things were as easy as you suggest.

No Rankin was not actually a regular in the ICT midfield.

[The Falcon]

Nish and Rankin. Two players who are right on the edge of the managers' thinking.

If you think Nish and Rankin are the right sort of quality we need then you are most definitely at it, IMHO.

I said he was a known quantity. Just the type of player you recommended we go for.

[Cropley10]

I said he was a known quantity. Just the type of player you recommended we go for.

There's no point in going for known quantities - if they're not of sufficient quality to improve the squad. Which neither of them did.

Let me ask you the question again - are Nish and Rankin the sort of quality we need??

We appear to sign too many players no-one has ever heard of, no-one else wants and who have no resale value whatsoever... That is one problem.

[The Falcon]

There's no point in going for known quantities - if they're not of sufficient quality to improve the squad. Which neither of them did.

Let me ask you the question again - are Nish and Rankin the sort of quality we need??

We appear to sign too many players no-one has ever heard of, no-one else wants and who have no resale value whatsoever... That is one problem.


You said "The assertion being that buying a few more known quantities is a safer bet long term."

I merely stated, knowing that Rankin and Nish are among certain individuals least favourite personnel, that both players fitted these criteria. Therefore it obviously is not as simple as that. If you read your post again you will find that you contradict yourself.

Some of the revisionism going on would make Alistair Campbell blush.