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Mikey
12-01-2011, 08:46 AM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

The Falcon
12-01-2011, 09:02 AM
When I take that stance I'm accused of being a "troll" cos I's m new.

So I'll ask "are you a troll? :greengrin


Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

Lucius Apuleius
12-01-2011, 09:08 AM
When I take that stance I'm accused of being a "troll" cos I's m new.

So I'll ask "are you a troll? :greengrin

Trolling is making a statement liable to cause anger. Mikey has asked a question without stating his viewpoint. Not trolling in my opinion (that is us old board members sticking together in our wee clique):wink:

Matty_Jack04
12-01-2011, 09:10 AM
although i dont consider myself anti board, i dont think it has acheived anything what so ever but what exactly does posting greviances on here acheive anyway? Does rod and the rest read this site? Do they listen to supporter concerns? The only time supporters can air there feelings and feel like there being heard unfortunatly is the terraces and then other fans give them a roasting for not being 'true supporters'

In short no matter what is posted on here acheives nothing down easter road way good or bad.

khib70
12-01-2011, 09:15 AM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:
Fair question.

Some of us believe that the Board have neglected the core business of the club, which is playing football, and been obsessively focussed on balancing the books and improving infrastructure. You might not agree, but this is a legitimate stance which people on this board are entitled to take.

Has it achieved anything? The honest answer is "no" - but since that means that the Board have not acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support, that's not necessarily a good thing. The question could be turned round. Do those on here who uncritically back the Board at all times feel that they have "achieved anything".

Despite attempts by the above people to imply that those of us who are prepared to question the Board's policies and actions are in some way "undermining" them, or are acting contrary to the interests of the club, what is happening is that paying supporters are questioning what has really been achieved by the Board's current stance. This is surely a healthy thing.

We have for some time been told that we're part of a "family" here. It appears that the Board and their supporters have a very clear idea of which part of the "family" we are. The small, innocent children who should be "seen and not heard"

Wembley67
12-01-2011, 09:24 AM
although i dont consider myself anti board, i dont think it has acheived anything what so ever but what exactly does posting greviances on here acheive anyway? Does rod and the rest read this site? Do they listen to supporter concerns? The only time supporters can air there feelings and feel like there being heard unfortunatly is the terraces and then other fans give them a roasting for not being 'true supporters'

In short no matter what is posted on here acheives nothing down easter road way good or bad.

spot on. Message boards are just a game for us bored people at work.

Kaiser1962
12-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Although I disagree with this khib its a good post.

The other side of the coin, as I see it, is that if they failed to balance the books we would not be here. I believe that, by investing in the infrastructure, that we are being given a solid and secure base from which to move forward.

I do believe, although the team is crap, that we are still doing the right thing and the only fly in the ointment is that we are still losing, copyright TQM :greengrin, around £2m per annum, which is a concern.

Alternatively, as I just posted on another thread, we could have "backed" John Collins and sunk £2m plus wages plus everything else into Steven Naismith for what return?

Fair question.

Some of us believe that the Board have neglected the core business of the club, which is playing football, and been obsessively focussed on balancing the books and improving infrastructure. You might not agree, but this is a legitimate stance which people on this board are entitled to take.

Has it achieved anything? The honest answer is "no" - but since that means that the Board have not acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support, that's not necessarily a good thing. The question could be turned round. Do those on here who uncritically back the Board at all times feel that they have "achieved anything".

Despite attempts by the above people to imply that those of us who are prepared to question the Board's policies and actions are in some way "undermining" them, or are acting contrary to the interests of the club, what is happening is that paying supporters are questioning what has really been achieved by the Board's current stance. This is surely a healthy thing.

We have for some time been told that we're part of a "family" here. It appears that the Board and their supporters have a very clear idea of which part of the "family" we are. The small, innocent children who should be "seen and not heard"

Hibbyradge
12-01-2011, 09:33 AM
Fair question.

Some of us believe that the Board have neglected the core business of the club, which is playing football, and been obsessively focussed on balancing the books and improving infrastructure. You might not agree, but this is a legitimate stance which people on this board are entitled to take.

Has it achieved anything? The honest answer is "no" - but since that means that the Board have not acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support, that's not necessarily a good thing.

In fact, they have "acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support".

Just not yours.

Had they spent all the money on players salaries and transfer fees, those of us who believe that we needed to get ourselves in a stable financial position with the right infrastructure in place first, would be feeling disenfranchised.

jonty
12-01-2011, 09:36 AM
Slightly off-topic but I do think that the club read and (in some cases) take to heart what is posted - playing and support staff.
Indirectly several people have emailed the club after encouragement from fellow posters and while not all succesfull at least one (hibs kids?) was.
Several fans forums have also been heard.

But in the grand scheme of things its a very small impact. Most fans voice their opinions at the ground and thats where it's noticed most.

I agree with Wembley67 though :greengrin

Matty_Jack04
12-01-2011, 09:36 AM
back john collins with £2m are you serious?
Theiry gathussi, makalamby, o'brien, brian kerr says to me no danger should he have been backed with serious funds, what he should have been backed on was the player revolt against his training methods and rules on conduct but he showed no reason to be backed by that kind of money in the transfer market as his signings were rotten

khib70
12-01-2011, 09:37 AM
Although I disagree with this khib its a good post.

The other side of the coin, as I see it, is that if they failed to balance the books we would not be here. I believe that, by investing in the infrastructure, that we are being given a solid and secure base from which to move forward.

I do believe, although the team is crap, that we are still doing the right thing and the only fly in the ointment is that we are still losing, copyright TQM :greengrin, around £2m per annum, which is a concern.

Alternatively, as I just posted on another thread, we could have "backed" John Collins and sunk £2m plus wages plus everything else into Steven Naismith for what return?
I see where you're coming from. However, we have the "solid and secure base", but as far as the football side is concerned, we are not "moving forward" The quality of the playing squad is as low, IMO, as it's been for years.

I'm not blind to the necessity of balancing the books, and am absolutely not in favour of throwing money around. But we do need to invest in players, with an eye to their future value, rather than simply buying up to a limit defined by what the season ticket purchasers put in.

To use your own analogy. Looking at Naismith's performances for Rangers this season, and accepting for the sake of argument your £2m figure, if we were selling him now we would be looking at twice that figure or more. And we would have had the benefit of a player much better than the ones we have now for a number of years.

It's simplistic to operate on the basis of a zero balance at all times. Debt is acceptable, provided it is serviceable, and both individuals and organisations in all areas of society work on that basis.

On the only occasion we have been seriously close to going out of business, it was financial mismanagement and ill-advised dabbling in non-football invesstments that took us there

Andy74
12-01-2011, 09:47 AM
Fair question.

Some of us believe that the Board have neglected the core business of the club, which is playing football, and been obsessively focussed on balancing the books and improving infrastructure. You might not agree, but this is a legitimate stance which people on this board are entitled to take.

Has it achieved anything? The honest answer is "no" - but since that means that the Board have not acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support, that's not necessarily a good thing. The question could be turned round. Do those on here who uncritically back the Board at all times feel that they have "achieved anything".

Despite attempts by the above people to imply that those of us who are prepared to question the Board's policies and actions are in some way "undermining" them, or are acting contrary to the interests of the club, what is happening is that paying supporters are questioning what has really been achieved by the Board's current stance. This is surely a healthy thing.

We have for some time been told that we're part of a "family" here. It appears that the Board and their supporters have a very clear idea of which part of the "family" we are. The small, innocent children who should be "seen and not heard"

Every time the board speak on teh subject they confirm that the main goal for the Club is to achieve success on the pitch and that everything they do is geared to that.

To those who keep peddling the balance sheet line actually read those type of statements or do they think the Board are lying? Why would the finances and infrastructure be important if it wasn't to bebefit the team long term?

The Board chat went all quiet when we'd bought Riordan, brought in Stokes and Miller and were clear in third place. It was the coming together of the board's policy.

Since then we've signed another 9 players and completed the East stand.

The Board's approcah has not changed but they can't do much about how the players perform. They thought the management wasn't right so they changed it.

The quality of players brough in within the budget is the managers shout. Our budget has brought us guys like Riordan, Stokes, Miller, Zemmama, Benji, Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Shiels and Killen so it can be done.

To me the Board thing here is probably just to do with a desire to question authority and sock one to 'the man' more than it is a real review of their performance backed up with any sort of alternative approach that they could have taken.

Expecting Rain
12-01-2011, 09:55 AM
back john collins with £2m are you serious?
Theiry gathussi, makalamby, o'brien, brian kerr says to me no danger should he have been backed with serious funds, what he should have been backed on was the player revolt against his training methods and rules on conduct but he showed no reason to be backed by that kind of money in the transfer market as his signings were rotten

Agree, it isn`t about spending £2m on a player, it is about finding an overall balance to the team and the squad, bringing through youth, looking for players with potential that can improve the team and unfortunately selling them on to keep the club financially sound. It is also being realistic about how long this will take and learning from previous mistakes, the last point is difficult to judge and amend when contractual situations are definitely on the side of the players who at the end of the day play the biggest part in results, especially against teams in a similar if not weaker situation, in this instance i don`t blame the board.

khib70
12-01-2011, 10:42 AM
Every time the board speak on teh subject they confirm that the main goal for the Club is to achieve success on the pitch and that everything they do is geared to that.

To those who keep peddling the balance sheet line actually read those type of statements or do they think the Board are lying? Why would the finances and infrastructure be important if it wasn't to bebefit the team long term?

The Board chat went all quiet when we'd bought Riordan, brought in Stokes and Miller and were clear in third place. It was the coming together of the board's policy.

Since then we've signed another 9 players and completed the East stand.

The Board's approcah has not changed but they can't do much about how the players perform. They thought the management wasn't right so they changed it.

The quality of players brough in within the budget is the managers shout. Our budget has brought us guys like Riordan, Stokes, Miller, Zemmama, Benji, Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Shiels and Killen so it can be done.

To me the Board thing here is probably just to do with a desire to question authority and sock one to 'the man' more than it is a real review of their performance backed up with any sort of alternative approach that they could have taken.
A fairly predictable response.

This is your standard defence of the board and I've seen it often enough. It can be paraphrased as "when good things happen the Board should get the credit and if it goes wrong, it's the manager's fault". The managers being appointed by whom again?

No one is suggesting that the books shouldn't be balanced. What is being suggested is that the reins are too tight. It's possible to invest more in the squad without being financially irresponsible.

It's nice of you to tell those of us who believe this what our motives are. However, we already know, and we don't need you trivialising our genuine concerns as mindless iconoclasm. I've no doubt that the handsomely remunerated Mr Petrie and his colleagues are sincere in their statement that they want the club to succeed on the football front. However, the over-stringent constraints they place on that are counterproductive to the stated aim.

You and others seem to persist in the straw man position that anyone criticising the board is advocating unrestrained and irresponsible spending. We're not. Neither are we indulging in authority bashing. We look at what's on the field and we hold those responsible who are and should be responsible.

smurf
12-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Very interesting thread...:greengrin

The answer is probably no in a yes kind of way.... Is anything ever achieved by posting criticisms on a forum on-line? What's the point of ever raising concerns or questions knowing that it will ultimately make no difference?

But in a way it does make a difference.

I honestly believe that if in 2003 we had as a support responded to the Straiton proposal in a 'Hey that's a smashing idea' way then we would today be out at Straiton.

So the opposition to the proposal did make a difference. And also Sir Tom Farmer at the Easter Road meeting had print outs of folks postings on The Bounce (and i'm sure from here) on him that evening. So whether it makes a difference or not they do pay attention to opinions etc.

Also, is anyone seriously going to suggest that the 'Hands on Hibs' campaign in 1998 made no difference?

Events in 1998 with 'Hands on Hibs' and over Straiton in 2003 are proof that opinion within our ranks expressed directly can and does make a difference.

I also do take issue with the claim that we (i imagine i'm perceived as one of them...) are 'Anti Board'.

I genuinely don't think that i am. They are the board of Hibernian Football Club. And that very board tell us that Hibernian Football Club is 'Our' club. So if it's 'Our' Club and they are 'Our' Board i honestly don't understand the issue with the questioning and criticism that comes with the role?

They don't sit and serve on the board in some charitable role. They are remunerated for what they do. I'm not saying by too much but the facts in the accounts suggest that as a % to Turnover their remuneration is a fairly significant cost to the club.

So when we see the shambles that we are currently on the park i don't see the issue with holding (or attempting to as we actually can't is the fact of the matter) them to account through a medium such as on here.

Because bottom line is that it's our board that are running our club. They have the ultimate responsibility.

Of course they do good things. They have done some great things. I'm not in the 'They've sold off all the family silver' camp. That is a reality. They had to sell them. And they did so very well in getting excellent transfer fees. IMHO Scott Brown was never a £4.4 Million Pound player. Excellent negotiations Mr Rod Petrie.:top marks

The Training Centre.:top marks

The Stadium.:top marks

But we have what i regard as a 'Structural Deficit'. We are losing £2 Million a year. And we have no 'Family Silver' left to sell off. Season Ticket numbers have been dropping for several years.... Average crowds are dropping...

So in the good times did they really put in place a longer term strategy? Because incurring a cost for an empty seat isn't going to work....

Of course i want to see a prudent board. I don't want to see a reckless Marr Brothers kind of board at Hibernian.

But IMHO we have an Accountancy mindset board. Full stop. Someone once told me that a very successful Scottish entrepreneur said something along the lines of "Accountants have no personality... they lift their head only to get their coat on the way out...". And no disrespect but that image is what we get from our board.

Where is the entrepreneurial spirit and vision on our board?

And the irony is that our actual owner is one of the very best. But there is nothing about our owner reflected in the board he has at Hibernian IMHO.

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 10:53 AM
Every time the board speak on teh subject they confirm that the main goal for the Club is to achieve success on the pitch and that everything they do is geared to that.

To those who keep peddling the balance sheet line actually read those type of statements or do they think the Board are lying? Why would the finances and infrastructure be important if it wasn't to bebefit the team long term?

The Board chat went all quiet when we'd bought Riordan, brought in Stokes and Miller and were clear in third place. It was the coming together of the board's policy.

Since then we've signed another 9 players and completed the East stand.

The Board's approcah has not changed but they can't do much about how the players perform. They thought the management wasn't right so they changed it.

The quality of players brough in within the budget is the managers shout. Our budget has brought us guys like Riordan, Stokes, Miller, Zemmama, Benji, Boozy, Sproule, Murphy, Jones, Shiels and Killen so it can be done.

To me the Board thing here is probably just to do with a desire to question authority and sock one to 'the man' more than it is a real review of their performance backed up with any sort of alternative approach that they could have taken.

I have to say Andy that your comments would resonate a lot more IF you at least sometime prepared to accept that the Club make mistakes.

I mean - Fred Goodwin did a helluva lot for RBS - and in the good times I doubt there was a dissenting voice at the Bank. I'm not saying that there's any parallel with Hibs, but sometimes, things are not always as they seem.

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Very interesting thread...:greengrin

The answer is probably no in a yes kind of way.... Is anything ever achieved by posting criticisms on a forum on-line? What's the point of ever raising concerns or questions knowing that it will ultimately make no difference?

But in a way it does make a difference.

I honestly believe that if in 2003 we had as a support responded to the Straiton proposal in a 'Hey that's a smashing idea' way then we would today be out at Straiton.

So the opposition to the proposal did make a difference. And also Sir Tom Farmer at the Easter Road meeting had print outs of folks postings on The Bounce (and i'm sure from here) on him that evening. So whether it makes a difference or not they do pay attention to opinions etc.

Also, is anyone seriously going to suggest that the 'Hands on Hibs' campaign in 1998 made no difference?

Events in 1998 with 'Hands on Hibs' and over Straiton in 2003 are proof that opinion within our ranks expressed directly can and does make a difference.

I also do take issue with the claim that we (i imagine i'm perceived as one of them...) are 'Anti Board'.

I genuinely don't think that i am. They are the board of Hibernian Football Club. And that very board tell us that Hibernian Football Club is 'Our' club. So if it's 'Our' Club and they are 'Our' Board i honestly don't understand the issue with the questioning and criticism that comes with the role?

They don't sit and serve on the board in some charitable role. They are remunerated for what they do. I'm not saying by too much but the facts in the accounts suggest that as a % to Turnover their remuneration is a fairly significant cost to the club.

So when we see the shambles that we are currently on the park i don't see the issue with holding (or attempting to as we actually can't is the fact of the matter) them to account through a medium such as on here.

Because bottom line is that it's our board that are running our club. They have the ultimate responsibility.

Of course they do good things. They have done some great things. I'm not in the 'They've sold off all the family silver' camp. That is a reality. They had to sell them. And they did so very well in getting excellent transfer fees. IMHO Scott Brown was never a £4.4 Million Pound player. Excellent negotiations Mr Rod Petrie.:top marks

The Training Centre.:top marks

The Stadium.:top marks

But we have what i regard as a 'Structural Deficit'. We are losing £2 Million a year. And we have no 'Family Silver' left to sell off. Season Ticket numbers have been dropping for several years.... Average crowds are dropping...

So in the good times did they really put in place a longer term strategy? Because incurring a cost for an empty seat isn't going to work....

Of course i want to see a prudent board. I don't want to see a reckless Marr Brothers kind of board at Hibernian.

But IMHO we have an Accountancy mindset board. Full stop. Someone once told me that a very successful Scottish entrepreneur said something along the lines of "Accountants have no personality... they lift their head only to get their coat on the way out...". And no disrespect but that image is what we get from our board.

Where is the entrepreneurial spirit and vision on our board?

And the irony is that our actual owner is one of the very best. But there is nothing about our owner reflected in the board he has at Hibernian IMHO.

Some excellent points in their Smurf that I find myself agreeing with.

The main one is this, if you dare to speak out against the Board, you are somehow anti-Hibs.

ahibby
12-01-2011, 10:58 AM
I think it is too early to ask this question. I am sure that all the negative comments will eventually wear the board down by 2020 :wink:

smurf
12-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Some excellent points in their Smurf that I find myself agreeing with.

The main one is this, if you dare to speak out against the Board, you are somehow anti-Hibs.

Yip. And that if you speak out against. Or question or give criticism that's as the OP title says 'Undermining of Board'.

As a support i'd suggest that is a very dangerous road to go down....

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Why do you ask the question Mikey?

I'd like to add that there will always be a number of people who behave quite disingenuously in their support of the Board, or their ire against anyone who questions their actions or motives.

Hibs doing badly on the pitch suits some people - they can't deny the success we have had in repairing the balance sheet and building some first-class facilities, but our record in recent Derbies and throughout 2010 will always give some people a reason to claim there is no need to panic, the Board are doing a great job, we don't need to change the manager, we shouldn't play our Youth players, nor recall them from loan, and that all our signings will eventually come good.

aob4green
12-01-2011, 11:13 AM
On the basis that I'll be making a concerted effort to balance my own domestic books this year, I won't be renewing, me, my sons and my Dad's season tickets if the same drivel is continually getting served up on the park without the board making any moves to back the manager and invest in the team.

This has gone on far too long now, selling the best players and attempting to replace them with underachieving journeymen.

Prior to the season starting we sell a 23 goal striker who sits on the bench (again) and on the first day of the January window we sell arguably the best defender we have. The first few weeks in January provide us with some of our most important games of the season (derby, start of a possible cup run) and we make no move to improve a badly faltering team. Before anyone asks, no I don't know for sure we haven't tried, but what I am sure of is that if you offer a player better terms than he could potentially get elsewhere, he'll likely sign, the fans will feel a renewed sense of optimism, and we'd probably double the gate of 6000 for our cup game, wherby paying the first couple of months wages already!

Fans will only be attracted to games when the product on the park improves considerably, and the team is crying out for some investment in quality. To all who show blind loyalty to our board, we may yet have the best infrastructure in the first division or SPL2 (or whatever it might be called) if they continue to get unquestioned support.

Baldy Foghorn
12-01-2011, 11:15 AM
Im anti Board. Think they do not genuinely have any real ambition to be a top footballing side.....

Run purely as a business, with great set of accounts......Product on park is poor and has been for a while..... What exactly do the Board have in mind to plug the 2m losses per year, as not many players command a high sell on value, and gates are already beginning to dwindle....???

Baldy Foghorn
12-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

People posting pre conceived perceptions on here about the Board IMO will not make one iota of difference. I for one do not believe that the Board takes any real notice of what is being written, unless it was to prove slanderous. The views of the common supporter are rarely taken into cognisance.

Beefster
12-01-2011, 11:19 AM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

I don't consider myself as someone who criticises them for everything but I'd turn that around and say that, in terms of the product on the park, constantly backing the Board hasn't achieved anything and may have actually harmed the product on the park more than any criticism. Our Board get an incredibly easy time considering the players sold, amounts taken in, contrasting investment in the team and how mince we are.

Baldy Foghorn
12-01-2011, 11:25 AM
I don't consider myself as someone who criticises them for everything but I'd turn that around and say that, in terms of the product on the park, constantly backing the Board hasn't achieved anything and may have actually harmed the product on the park more than any criticism. Our Board get an incredibly easy time considering the players sold, amounts taken in, contrasting investment in the team and how mince we are.

Agree with this statement.

GreenCastle
12-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Very interesting thread...:greengrin

The answer is probably no in a yes kind of way.... Is anything ever achieved by posting criticisms on a forum on-line? What's the point of ever raising concerns or questions knowing that it will ultimately make no difference?

But in a way it does make a difference.

I honestly believe that if in 2003 we had as a support responded to the Straiton proposal in a 'Hey that's a smashing idea' way then we would today be out at Straiton.

So the opposition to the proposal did make a difference. And also Sir Tom Farmer at the Easter Road meeting had print outs of folks postings on The Bounce (and i'm sure from here) on him that evening. So whether it makes a difference or not they do pay attention to opinions etc.

Also, is anyone seriously going to suggest that the 'Hands on Hibs' campaign in 1998 made no difference?

Events in 1998 with 'Hands on Hibs' and over Straiton in 2003 are proof that opinion within our ranks expressed directly can and does make a difference.

I also do take issue with the claim that we (i imagine i'm perceived as one of them...) are 'Anti Board'.

I genuinely don't think that i am. They are the board of Hibernian Football Club. And that very board tell us that Hibernian Football Club is 'Our' club. So if it's 'Our' Club and they are 'Our' Board i honestly don't understand the issue with the questioning and criticism that comes with the role?

They don't sit and serve on the board in some charitable role. They are remunerated for what they do. I'm not saying by too much but the facts in the accounts suggest that as a % to Turnover their remuneration is a fairly significant cost to the club.

So when we see the shambles that we are currently on the park i don't see the issue with holding (or attempting to as we actually can't is the fact of the matter) them to account through a medium such as on here.

Because bottom line is that it's our board that are running our club. They have the ultimate responsibility.

Of course they do good things. They have done some great things. I'm not in the 'They've sold off all the family silver' camp. That is a reality. They had to sell them. And they did so very well in getting excellent transfer fees. IMHO Scott Brown was never a £4.4 Million Pound player. Excellent negotiations Mr Rod Petrie.:top marks

The Training Centre.:top marks

The Stadium.:top marks

But we have what i regard as a 'Structural Deficit'. We are losing £2 Million a year. And we have no 'Family Silver' left to sell off. Season Ticket numbers have been dropping for several years.... Average crowds are dropping...

So in the good times did they really put in place a longer term strategy? Because incurring a cost for an empty seat isn't going to work....

Of course i want to see a prudent board. I don't want to see a reckless Marr Brothers kind of board at Hibernian.

But IMHO we have an Accountancy mindset board. Full stop. Someone once told me that a very successful Scottish entrepreneur said something along the lines of "Accountants have no personality... they lift their head only to get their coat on the way out...". And no disrespect but that image is what we get from our board.

Where is the entrepreneurial spirit and vision on our board?

And the irony is that our actual owner is one of the very best. But there is nothing about our owner reflected in the board he has at Hibernian IMHO.

Good post - think that answers the original post very well.

I do believe to reply to the first post - the posts about the board have raised awareness to others - maybe got them thinking that there is more going on here rather than the players/manager that turn up at ER every Saturday.

matty_f
12-01-2011, 11:54 AM
Some excellent points in their Smurf that I find myself agreeing with.

The main one is this, if you dare to speak out against the Board, you are somehow anti-Hibs.


Yip. And that if you speak out against. Or question or give criticism that's as the OP title says 'Undermining of Board'.

As a support i'd suggest that is a very dangerous road to go down....

The board are there to be criticised, and they should be when it's appropriate to do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging things, in fact the opposite is true - if nobody challenged it then you'd rarely see progression.

However, my take on Mikey's post, is that the undermining of the board is more the posting of hearsay and things that are probably not that true (or if they are, they're not backed up by any evidence).

Things like saying Hibs are terrible for selling their players as soon as someone is in for them - the facts are that we resisted bids for Jones, Murphy, Brown, Boozy (who we let go for nothing, rather than cashing in on him, because the manager needed him), Fletcher...

Or saying we never do business early, when just last January we announced the signing of Smith about a minute after the window opened.

Or that the board won't let the manager bring in quality players, when we've signed Murray, Szamotulski (sp), Riordan, Miller, Rosa, Johannsen, Brown (goalie), Bamba, and so on.

Or a number of other things that can be countered when evidence is produced (Petrie won't sign Yogi because he poured a glass of wine over his head...)

Properly directed criticism is healthy and should be encouraged, IMHO. Criticising the board certainly doesn't make you anti-Hibs, IMHO.

Andy74
12-01-2011, 12:06 PM
A fairly predictable response.

This is your standard defence of the board and I've seen it often enough. It can be paraphrased as "when good things happen the Board should get the credit and if it goes wrong, it's the manager's fault". The managers being appointed by whom again?

No one is suggesting that the books shouldn't be balanced. What is being suggested is that the reins are too tight. It's possible to invest more in the squad without being financially irresponsible.

It's nice of you to tell those of us who believe this what our motives are. However, we already know, and we don't need you trivialising our genuine concerns as mindless iconoclasm. I've no doubt that the handsomely remunerated Mr Petrie and his colleagues are sincere in their statement that they want the club to succeed on the football front. However, the over-stringent constraints they place on that are counterproductive to the stated aim.

You and others seem to persist in the straw man position that anyone criticising the board is advocating unrestrained and irresponsible spending. We're not. Neither are we indulging in authority bashing. We look at what's on the field and we hold those responsible who are and should be responsible.

Of course it's a predictable response, i'm not going to change my mind every two minutes.

The Board have been on the same path now for some time and therees an equally predicatable bout of board bashing appears every time we don't feel things on the park are right.

As a post above points out most of the comments aren't even accurate but they have been accepted as some sort of fact because they are trotted out enough like not backing managers and not doing business early etc etc.

In all my days here i've still not seen an acceptable counter position on what we should be doing, with full reference to the accounts. I'd be happy to see some of the criticism turned into some proper answers.

Plus, don't make too many assumptions about why I'm backing the board just now, it's just because I've questioned, I've looked at it and I can see what they are doing is trhe best they can do at this time.

In the past I've been threatened with legal action by both Sir Tom and Rod Petrie for questioning certain things. Times change though and whilst there are still things from that time I have an issue with I'm happy that our current position on the park isn't due to the Board not doing everything they can.

Argylehibby
12-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Does rod and the rest read this site? Do they listen to supporter concerns? The only time supporters can air there feelings and feel like there being heard unfortunatly is the terraces and then other fans give them a roasting for not being 'true supporters'

In short no matter what is posted on here acheives nothing down easter road way good or bad.

I wouldn't say Rod reads the site but others on the Board and management of the club do. While they wouldnt, for example, sack a manager just because a number of people on here and other MB's say they should, they are not so daft that they ignore what is posted completely. We are after all the customers and no business ignores customers completely.

Bad Martini
12-01-2011, 12:13 PM
The board are there to be criticised, and they should be when it's appropriate to do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging things, in fact the opposite is true - if nobody challenged it then you'd rarely see progression.

However, my take on Mikey's post, is that the undermining of the board is more the posting of hearsay and things that are probably not that true (or if they are, they're not backed up by any evidence).

Things like saying Hibs are terrible for selling their players as soon as someone is in for them - the facts are that we resisted bids for Jones, Murphy, Brown, Boozy (who we let go for nothing, rather than cashing in on him, because the manager needed him), Fletcher...

Or saying we never do business early, when just last January we announced the signing of Smith about a minute after the window opened.

Or that the board won't let the manager bring in quality players, when we've signed Murray, Szamotulski (sp), Riordan, Miller, Rosa, Johannsen, Brown (goalie), Bamba, and so on.

Or a number of other things that can be countered when evidence is produced (Petrie won't sign Yogi because he poured a glass of wine over his head...)

Properly directed criticism is healthy and should be encouraged, IMHO. Criticising the board certainly doesn't make you anti-Hibs, IMHO.

Pesky common sense :greengrin

Doon wi the board :devil: :na na:

I actually agree with everything in yer post mate.

I do think the board are culpable indirectly for the managerial woes we've had. And we've had some ***** luck and now have some journeymen. Put that together and you get mediocre Hibs.

Simples!!!

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 12:19 PM
A fairly predictable response.

This is your standard defence of the board and I've seen it often enough. It can be paraphrased as "when good things happen the Board should get the credit and if it goes wrong, it's the manager's fault". The managers being appointed by whom again?

No one is suggesting that the books shouldn't be balanced. What is being suggested is that the reins are too tight. It's possible to invest more in the squad without being financially irresponsible.

It's nice of you to tell those of us who believe this what our motives are. However, we already know, and we don't need you trivialising our genuine concerns as mindless iconoclasm. I've no doubt that the handsomely remunerated Mr Petrie and his colleagues are sincere in their statement that they want the club to succeed on the football front. However, the over-stringent constraints they place on that are counterproductive to the stated aim.

You and others seem to persist in the straw man position that anyone criticising the board is advocating unrestrained and irresponsible spending. We're not. Neither are we indulging in authority bashing. We look at what's on the field and we hold those responsible who are and should be responsible.

You say you are not against the board balancing the books, yet we are losing £2m a year. How do we loosen the reigns a bit without getting more into debt?

I am no petrie lover, but i can see what he and the rest of the board have in their vision. Yes this season has not been great, but if we waver from the plan, it could set us back years.

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 12:26 PM
In the past I've been threatened with legal action by both Sir Tom and Rod Petrie for questioning certain things.

You have been threatened with legal action for something you wrote on here?:confused:

If true, that explains everything!:wink:

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 12:30 PM
You say you are not against the board balancing the books, yet we are losing £2m a year. How do we loosen the reigns a bit without getting more into debt?

I am no petrie lover, but i can see what he and the rest of the board have in their vision. Yes this season has not been great, but if we waver from the plan, it could set us back years.

How far back would it set these plans if we were relegated?

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 12:32 PM
How far back would it set these plans if we were relegated?

:agree: Relegation was never part of those plans, and would be a disaster. I believe we will bring in enough quality this window to stop that happening, well i hope so? :greengrin

Andy74
12-01-2011, 12:37 PM
You have been threatened with legal action for something you wrote on here?:confused:

If true, that explains everything!:wink:

No, not on here, something I took up with them directly!

And no, it has not prompted a change of heart! :greengrin

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 01:16 PM
No, not on here, something I took up with them directly!

And no, it has not prompted a change of heart! :greengrin

:fibber: :greengrin:

down-the-slope
12-01-2011, 01:17 PM
although i dont consider myself anti board, i dont think it has acheived anything what so ever but what exactly does posting greviances on here acheive anyway? Does rod and the rest read this site? Do they listen to supporter concerns? The only time supporters can air there feelings and feel like there being heard unfortunatly is the terraces and then other fans give them a roasting for not being 'true supporters'

In short no matter what is posted on here acheives nothing down easter road way good or bad.

That is rubbish...it may be the way to hide in a big group rather than having the balls to put legitamite concerns in a sensible and direct manner to the board personally.

Rod goes walk about in BTG every home match where anyone can walk up and talk (STF is often there as well)

The club have arranged forums to get supporter views a number of times where the same can be done...dissapointingly last time a large number of people took up places at these and did not have the courtesy to attend...when others like myself wanted to and were not able to get a place...

7Hero
12-01-2011, 01:53 PM
Mikey i have been anti board for a long time, it has of course achieved nothing, and i don't expect it too achieve anything. why should it ? The owner and chairman run the club and set the targets, end of story.

CropleyWasGod
12-01-2011, 02:06 PM
Mikey i have been anti board for a long time, it has of course achieved nothing, and i don't expect it too achieve anything. why should it ? The owner and chairman run the club and set the targets, end of story.

Achieved nothing?

Winning a Cup

Getting into Europe

Wiping out horrendous debts.

Improving the stadium

Building a training centre.

Is that nothing?

RIP
12-01-2011, 02:46 PM
Mikey - I do not consider myself anti-board - I see myself defending the interests of Hibernian Football Club

Inevitably board members come and go but (Thanks to Sir Tom) my club will continue. Some like Rod Petrie will stay a bit longer but one day, he too will leave the board or retire.

My preference would be that we have a board that is modern, communicates well and inspires confidence in our main business - football and entertainment

Like an increasing number of others I think we needed the '3 Accountants' type of Board for debt clearance and capital projects. Now I think we need a different shape of organisation to focus on the next ten years building a football infrastructure, entertainment and communication model for the new world.

To take the club forward I'd like to see change. If no change is forthcoming then yes, as a supporter of 50 years, I would be willing to go outside the medium of an internet messageboard to make that happen.

That's because Hibs are my club. Hibernian Football Club belongs to us - the board are merely temporary custodians.

7Hero
12-01-2011, 03:17 PM
Achieved nothing?

Winning a Cup

Getting into Europe

Wiping out horrendous debts.

Improving the stadium

Building a training centre.

Is that nothing?

you mss the point and indeed my answer to the question, which was :

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

Thus my answer to the question is that me being antiboard has achieved nothing.

I was assuming this post was to do with that other than what the board has achieved, which to be fair has been debated a fair bit the last few years..

Bookkeeper
12-01-2011, 03:43 PM
Very interesting thread...:greengrin

The answer is probably no in a yes kind of way.... Is anything ever achieved by posting criticisms on a forum on-line? What's the point of ever raising concerns or questions knowing that it will ultimately make no difference?

But in a way it does make a difference.

I honestly believe that if in 2003 we had as a support responded to the Straiton proposal in a 'Hey that's a smashing idea' way then we would today be out at Straiton.

So the opposition to the proposal did make a difference. And also Sir Tom Farmer at the Easter Road meeting had print outs of folks postings on The Bounce (and i'm sure from here) on him that evening. So whether it makes a difference or not they do pay attention to opinions etc.

Also, is anyone seriously going to suggest that the 'Hands on Hibs' campaign in 1998 made no difference?

Events in 1998 with 'Hands on Hibs' and over Straiton in 2003 are proof that opinion within our ranks expressed directly can and does make a difference.

I also do take issue with the claim that we (i imagine i'm perceived as one of them...) are 'Anti Board'.

I genuinely don't think that i am. They are the board of Hibernian Football Club. And that very board tell us that Hibernian Football Club is 'Our' club. So if it's 'Our' Club and they are 'Our' Board i honestly don't understand the issue with the questioning and criticism that comes with the role?

They don't sit and serve on the board in some charitable role. They are remunerated for what they do. I'm not saying by too much but the facts in the accounts suggest that as a % to Turnover their remuneration is a fairly significant cost to the club.

So when we see the shambles that we are currently on the park i don't see the issue with holding (or attempting to as we actually can't is the fact of the matter) them to account through a medium such as on here.

Because bottom line is that it's our board that are running our club. They have the ultimate responsibility.

Of course they do good things. They have done some great things. I'm not in the 'They've sold off all the family silver' camp. That is a reality. They had to sell them. And they did so very well in getting excellent transfer fees. IMHO Scott Brown was never a £4.4 Million Pound player. Excellent negotiations Mr Rod Petrie.:top marks

The Training Centre.:top marks

The Stadium.:top marks

But we have what i regard as a 'Structural Deficit'. We are losing £2 Million a year. And we have no 'Family Silver' left to sell off. Season Ticket numbers have been dropping for several years.... Average crowds are dropping...

So in the good times did they really put in place a longer term strategy? Because incurring a cost for an empty seat isn't going to work....

Of course i want to see a prudent board. I don't want to see a reckless Marr Brothers kind of board at Hibernian.

But IMHO we have an Accountancy mindset board. Full stop. Someone once told me that a very successful Scottish entrepreneur said something along the lines of "Accountants have no personality... they lift their head only to get their coat on the way out...". And no disrespect but that image is what we get from our board.

Where is the entrepreneurial spirit and vision on our board?

And the irony is that our actual owner is one of the very best. But there is nothing about our owner reflected in the board he has at Hibernian IMHO.


:top marks Very well put! :agree:

chorley_fm
12-01-2011, 04:11 PM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

does anything said on an internet football forum achieve anything ?

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 04:17 PM
does anything said on an internet football forum achieve anything ?

Yes it does, it had a big majority of the support booing Liam Miller when he came on as sub against Dundee United the other week. :boo hoo:

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 04:50 PM
Yes it does, it had a big majority of the support booing Liam Miller when he came on as sub against Dundee United the other week. :boo hoo:

Pedant alert: Booing? Yes. Because of incorrect, damaging rumours? Yes. Big majority booing? No.

This is the best example for not believing all you read I can think of. Shameful.

mjhibby
12-01-2011, 04:57 PM
spot on. Message boards are just a game for us bored people at work.

They are also the views of a lot of fans who are the lifeblood of the club.The vast majority agree that whatever reason the playing squad is the poorest we have had for many a year.Whether it is the boards fault or the managers who the board appointed is a debate for another day but we are where we are and the question is how do we move forward.A couple of experienced signings to strengthen the spine of the team,playing a settled side and then an almighty clearout in the summer.
My biggest concern still is no sign of any of the squad being re-signed and no transfers yet.The only way fans are going to be brought back if we see some positive activity.Doing nothing is not an option.

CropleyWasGod
12-01-2011, 04:59 PM
you mss the point and indeed my answer to the question, which was :

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

Thus my answer to the question is that me being antiboard has achieved nothing.

I was assuming this post was to do with that other than what the board has achieved, which to be fair has been debated a fair bit the last few years..

There should be a separate forum for folk like me who don't read the whole freaking thread.:rolleyes:

Apologies.

7Hero
12-01-2011, 05:06 PM
There should be a separate forum for folk like me who don't read the whole freaking thread.:rolleyes:

Apologies.

ha ha nae bother mate..

now if you were a jambo i wouldn't have been so polite :wink:

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 05:09 PM
Pedant alert: Booing? Yes. Because of incorrect, damaging rumours? Yes. Big majority booing? No.

This is the best example for not believing all you read I can think of. Shameful.

:agree: Yes i should have said enough of the support to cause a loud boo for Miller, just because someone put a stupid rumour on a message board.

Kaiser1962
12-01-2011, 05:28 PM
I dont think for a minute anyone would pay £4m for Naismith. He is hardly prolific and injury prone. To say he's better than what we have is hardly accolade of the year :greengrin

Seriously we are not millions of miles away from each other but I do firmly believe that we are on the right track. There is no doubt the team is as poor as its been but lets give the guy in charge a chance to change it. We, in truth, have no idea what our signing targets are or how achievable they are but just because we haven't signed anyone doesn't mean we're not trying. Relegation (I dont believe we will by the way) if it happens it will not be nice but we will come back from it. If we throw money about now and still end up relegated we might not be able to.

The last part is open to debate. Avon Inns was a poor "investment" but the biggest problem was not enough fans bought shares and they ended up being bailed out by David Rowland.


I see where you're coming from. However, we have the "solid and secure base", but as far as the football side is concerned, we are not "moving forward" The quality of the playing squad is as low, IMO, as it's been for years.

I'm not blind to the necessity of balancing the books, and am absolutely not in favour of throwing money around. But we do need to invest in players, with an eye to their future value, rather than simply buying up to a limit defined by what the season ticket purchasers put in.

To use your own analogy. Looking at Naismith's performances for Rangers this season, and accepting for the sake of argument your £2m figure, if we were selling him now we would be looking at twice that figure or more. And we would have had the benefit of a player much better than the ones we have now for a number of years.

It's simplistic to operate on the basis of a zero balance at all times. Debt is acceptable, provided it is serviceable, and both individuals and organisations in all areas of society work on that basis.

On the only occasion we have been seriously close to going out of business, it was financial mismanagement and ill-advised dabbling in non-football invesstments that took us there

The Falcon
12-01-2011, 05:42 PM
I dont think for a minute anyone would pay £4m for Naismith. He is hardly prolific and injury prone. To say he's better than what we have is hardly accolade of the year :greengrin

Seriously we are not millions of miles away from each other but I do firmly believe that we are on the right track. There is no doubt the team is as poor as its been but lets give the guy in charge a chance to change it. We, in truth, have no idea what our signing targets are or how achievable they are but just because we haven't signed anyone doesn't mean we're not trying. Relegation (I dont believe we will by the way) if it happens it will not be nice but we will come back from it. If we throw money about now and still end up relegated we might not be able to.

The last part is open to debate. Avon Inns was a poor "investment" but the biggest problem was not enough fans bought shares and they ended up being bailed out by David Rowland.

:top marks

mcfly
12-01-2011, 05:45 PM
I dont feel anyone is being undermined.

i do feel we as fans need a lift by a couple of new signings to make an impact.

laugh all you like but 2 out of the top 3 teams in the SPL will be out of the scottish cup at the 5th round stage.

i know we are crap but a couple of new signings, could make all the difference.

we'll struggle but we'll get past ayr and then who knows.

Believe!!!!!

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 06:22 PM
I dont think for a minute anyone would pay £4m for Naismith. He is hardly prolific and injury prone. To say he's better than what we have is hardly accolade of the year :greengrin

Seriously we are not millions of miles away from each other but I do firmly believe that we are on the right track. There is no doubt the team is as poor as its been but lets give the guy in charge a chance to change it. We, in truth, have no idea what our signing targets are or how achievable they are but just because we haven't signed anyone doesn't mean we're not trying. Relegation (I dont believe we will by the way) if it happens it will not be nice but we will come back from it. If we throw money about now and still end up relegated we might not be able to.

The last part is open to debate. Avon Inns was a poor "investment" but the biggest problem was not enough fans bought shares and they ended up being bailed out by David Rowland.

The thing is we now have absolutely no-one left to sell. Those days are over, making this whole Naismith example a totally moot point. We don't buy players to re-sell. We buy bargain basement free agents by and large now, so it will continue to be a moot point.

BSEJVT
12-01-2011, 09:16 PM
Agree, it isn`t about spending £2m on a player, it is about finding an overall balance to the team and the squad, bringing through youth, looking for players with potential that can improve the team and unfortunately selling them on to keep the club financially sound. It is also being realistic about how long this will take and learning from previous mistakes, the last point is difficult to judge and amend when contractual situations are definitely on the side of the players who at the end of the day play the biggest part in results, especially against teams in a similar if not weaker situation, in this instance i don`t blame the board.

I think a business like Hibs needs to be aware of its customers views.

I think that trawling fan sites is an in-expensive and immediate way of doing so.

Whether it has any effect in other than the extreme circumstances painted by Smurf I couldnt say.

Jonnyboy
12-01-2011, 10:33 PM
The board are there to be criticised, and they should be when it's appropriate to do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging things, in fact the opposite is true - if nobody challenged it then you'd rarely see progression.

However, my take on Mikey's post, is that the undermining of the board is more the posting of hearsay and things that are probably not that true (or if they are, they're not backed up by any evidence).

Things like saying Hibs are terrible for selling their players as soon as someone is in for them - the facts are that we resisted bids for Jones, Murphy, Brown, Boozy (who we let go for nothing, rather than cashing in on him, because the manager needed him), Fletcher...

Or saying we never do business early, when just last January we announced the signing of Smith about a minute after the window opened.

Or that the board won't let the manager bring in quality players, when we've signed Murray, Szamotulski (sp), Riordan, Miller, Rosa, Johannsen, Brown (goalie), Bamba, and so on.

Or a number of other things that can be countered when evidence is produced (Petrie won't sign Yogi because he poured a glass of wine over his head...)

Properly directed criticism is healthy and should be encouraged, IMHO. Criticising the board certainly doesn't make you anti-Hibs, IMHO.

You make a lot of good points Matty but I have to disagree with your use of the term 'quality signings' in relation to Szamotulski who was a journeyman keeper and not a great one at that - Rosa who flattered to deceive and wasn't very good as he stood out in a pish team - Johansson who was a dud from day one :wink:

As to the original question I don't really think postings on here undermine the Board but I do think the Board read stuff on here and are influenced by it, why wouldn't they be when you think back to the Hands on Hibs and Straiton protests which were largely fought out via the Fanzine and public meetings. I'm convinced they do read stuff on here and the Bounce and I'm convinced it will be taken notice of

matty_f
12-01-2011, 10:35 PM
You make a lot of good points Matty but I have to disagree with your use of the term 'quality signings' in relation to Szamotulski who was a journeyman keeper and not a great one at that - Rosa who flattered to deceive and wasn't very good as he stood out in a pish team - Johansson who was a dud from day one :wink:

As to the original question I don't really think postings on here undermine the Board but I do think the Board read stuff on here and are influenced by it, why wouldn't they be when you think back to the Hands on Hibs and Straiton protests which were largely fought out via the Fanzine and public meetings. I'm convinced they do read stuff on here and the Bounce and I'm convinced it will be taken notice of

They were quality until they signed for us, JC, that was the point. Who expected JJ's time here to be so pish, for example?

erskine-hibby
12-01-2011, 10:53 PM
Very interesting thread...:greengrin

The answer is probably no in a yes kind of way.... Is anything ever achieved by posting criticisms on a forum on-line? What's the point of ever raising concerns or questions knowing that it will ultimately make no difference?

But in a way it does make a difference.

I honestly believe that if in 2003 we had as a support responded to the Straiton proposal in a 'Hey that's a smashing idea' way then we would today be out at Straiton.

So the opposition to the proposal did make a difference. And also Sir Tom Farmer at the Easter Road meeting had print outs of folks postings on The Bounce (and i'm sure from here) on him that evening. So whether it makes a difference or not they do pay attention to opinions etc.

Also, is anyone seriously going to suggest that the 'Hands on Hibs' campaign in 1998 made no difference?

Events in 1998 with 'Hands on Hibs' and over Straiton in 2003 are proof that opinion within our ranks expressed directly can and does make a difference.

I also do take issue with the claim that we (i imagine i'm perceived as one of them...) are 'Anti Board'.

I genuinely don't think that i am. They are the board of Hibernian Football Club. And that very board tell us that Hibernian Football Club is 'Our' club. So if it's 'Our' Club and they are 'Our' Board i honestly don't understand the issue with the questioning and criticism that comes with the role?

They don't sit and serve on the board in some charitable role. They are remunerated for what they do. I'm not saying by too much but the facts in the accounts suggest that as a % to Turnover their remuneration is a fairly significant cost to the club.

So when we see the shambles that we are currently on the park i don't see the issue with holding (or attempting to as we actually can't is the fact of the matter) them to account through a medium such as on here.

Because bottom line is that it's our board that are running our club. They have the ultimate responsibility.

Of course they do good things. They have done some great things. I'm not in the 'They've sold off all the family silver' camp. That is a reality. They had to sell them. And they did so very well in getting excellent transfer fees. IMHO Scott Brown was never a £4.4 Million Pound player. Excellent negotiations Mr Rod Petrie.:top marks

The Training Centre.:top marks

The Stadium.:top marks

But we have what i regard as a 'Structural Deficit'. We are losing £2 Million a year. And we have no 'Family Silver' left to sell off. Season Ticket numbers have been dropping for several years.... Average crowds are dropping...

So in the good times did they really put in place a longer term strategy? Because incurring a cost for an empty seat isn't going to work....

Of course i want to see a prudent board. I don't want to see a reckless Marr Brothers kind of board at Hibernian.

But IMHO we have an Accountancy mindset board. Full stop. Someone once told me that a very successful Scottish entrepreneur said something along the lines of "Accountants have no personality... they lift their head only to get their coat on the way out...". And no disrespect but that image is what we get from our board.

Where is the entrepreneurial spirit and vision on our board?

And the irony is that our actual owner is one of the very best. But there is nothing about our owner reflected in the board he has at Hibernian IMHO.

A bit early days yet, but I say post of the year:not worth:not worth:not worth

Jonnyboy
12-01-2011, 10:55 PM
They were quality until they signed for us, JC, that was the point. Who expected JJ's time here to be so pish, for example?

I might concede the point on JJ but the other two were journeymen Matty, not quality players

matty_f
12-01-2011, 10:58 PM
I might concede the point on JJ but the other two were journeymen Matty, not quality players

Would disagree, certainly in the case of the keeper, who was terrific at Utd and most on here would have bitten your hand off to sign him based on his time there.

Rosa was more of an unknown quantity, but came with a good pedigree, as a full internationalist.

3pm
12-01-2011, 11:07 PM
I might concede the point on JJ but the other two were journeymen Matty, not quality players

I'd erased Rosa from my memory. He was pish. Journeyman is a polite way of saying pish eh?!

Jonnyboy
12-01-2011, 11:28 PM
Would disagree, certainly in the case of the keeper, who was terrific at Utd and most on here would have bitten your hand off to sign him based on his time there.

Rosa was more of an unknown quantity, but came with a good pedigree, as a full internationalist.

Bitten MY hand off???????????? :greengrin

SmokieJoe
13-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Here's a question that's probably worth asking, especially in the white hot heat of a very quiet transfer window :greengrin

There are a number of people on here who have been very anti board (sorry, can't really think of a better description) for as long as I can remember.

Do you feel that your stance on here, and in some cases frequent posts about your perceptions of the board's inadequacies, has actually achieved anything?

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular so don't go thinking that I'm picking on anyone :cool2:

I am neither Pro or Anti the current board at ER. for my tuppence worth, the board's poor decision making must come under scrutinty. They have either recruited how many managers that have failed the club/fans/players. they have failed to back the right candidates by lack of funds/commitment/longer term player contracts or selling our best players from under the managers feet. The board have undoubtedly inproved ER and have created state of the art training facilities, but at what cost.
The fundamental issue remains, with each manager that the board appoint, that remains at the ER hot seat for less than (in my opinion) 3 years, the increased uncertanty and lack of stability(coatching staff/general direction) , has had a major affect on where we are in the league table.

Let's not look for blame, but hope the board realises the error of some of their ways and back the current manager 100%, because i'm sure most/all will agree that another manager moving on for whatever reason in 12 to 18 months time does our club no good whatsoever.

J-C
13-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Not anti board as I think they've done a fantasctic job in the past 10-12 years getting Hibs in the black with a wonderful infrastructure in place.

Unfortunately they are still treating Hibs like a balance sheet and at times there seems little heart within the board re the club itself. now that we are on such a good footing we now need to get players on the pitch to take Hibs back to where they belong, one of the strongest clubs in Scotland.

I was told a wee story a couple of night's ago which brings this into perpective.......
Darren Barr was shown round ER and East Mains, he was delighted at what he saw, Hughes showed him and his agent into Petrie's room. 5 mins later they appeared to Yogi's surprise, with Barr's agent saying he's never been so insulted, Petrie had just offered Barr £1,300 a week.............he was on £1,500 at Falkirk, enough said about where this board sees where we are going.....nowhere fast.

Speedway
13-01-2011, 02:53 PM
As an aside, Rosa has made 40 appearances for Fenecvaros scoring 5 times since joining them. Not exactly journeyman standard at journeyman club.

The Monk played 12 times for Hibs and kept 4 successive clean sheets which had not been achieved since Budgie in 1991.

MB62
13-01-2011, 03:44 PM
I am no petrie lover, but i can see what he and the rest of the board have in their vision. Yes this season has not been great, but if we waver from the plan, it could set us back years.

Apart from crossing fingers and everything else, keeping some lucky white heather and rubbing rabbits feet, that somehow, sometime, we manage to stumble across producing a really good team on the cheap, I have no idea what the plan is that our board have.

blackpoolhibs
13-01-2011, 04:20 PM
Apart from crossing fingers and everything else, keeping some lucky white heather and rubbing rabbits feet, that somehow, sometime, we manage to stumble across producing a really good team on the cheap, I have no idea what the plan is that our board have.

You don't listen to the board then, or read the press releases from the AGM'S?:confused:

Captain Trips
13-01-2011, 08:27 PM
You say you are not against the board balancing the books, yet we are losing £2m a year. How do we loosen the reigns a bit without getting more into debt?

I am no petrie lover, but i can see what he and the rest of the board have in their vision. Yes this season has not been great, but if we waver from the plan, it could set us back years.

What is this vision? When will it be reached has that been stated?

You say if we waiver from the plans it could set us back years but how many years are there ahead to fulfil the vision? I remeber when we got the SB and KT money and how many on here not saying you but a fair few saying we will benefit from this in a few years. There is to much of a grey area about some of this.

Maybe another board would have us losing £5m per year maybe a better board would have it sorted by now.

Cropley10
13-01-2011, 08:32 PM
What is this vision? When will it be reached has that been stated?

You say if we waiver from the plans it could set us back years but how many years are there ahead to fulfil the vision? I remeber when we got the SB and KT money and how many on here not saying you but a fair few saying we will benefit from this in a few years. There is to much of a grey area about some of this.

Maybe another board would have us losing £5m per year maybe a better board would have it sorted by now.

Incremental increase in the quality of the team :dunno:

ballengeich
13-01-2011, 08:43 PM
I was told a wee story a couple of night's ago which brings this into perpective.......
Darren Barr was shown round ER and East Mains, he was delighted at what he saw, Hughes showed him and his agent into Petrie's room. 5 mins later they appeared to Yogi's surprise, with Barr's agent saying he's never been so insulted, Petrie had just offered Barr £1,300 a week.............he was on £1,500 at Falkirk, enough said about where this board sees where we are going.....nowhere fast.

Congratulations to the Tash. Barr can't even get a game at wherever he is now.

Cropley10
13-01-2011, 08:47 PM
Congratulations to the Tash. Barr can't even get a game at wherever he is now.

Is Barr better than Hogg?

PaulSmith
13-01-2011, 08:47 PM
I dont think for a minute anyone would pay £4m for Naismith. He is hardly prolific and injury prone. To say he's better than what we have is hardly accolade of the year :greengrin

Seriously we are not millions of miles away from each other but I do firmly believe that we are on the right track. There is no doubt the team is as poor as its been but lets give the guy in charge a chance to change it. We, in truth, have no idea what our signing targets are or how achievable they are but just because we haven't signed anyone doesn't mean we're not trying. Relegation (I dont believe we will by the way) if it happens it will not be nice but we will come back from it. If we throw money about now and still end up relegated we might not be able to.

The last part is open to debate. Avon Inns was a poor "investment" but the biggest problem was not enough fans bought shares and they ended up being bailed out by David Rowland.

mmmm Interesting quote there as I'm convinced that the share issue was over-subsribed. David Rowland was 'gifted' shares in Hibs as part of his loan of £750k to Duff to buy the club in the first place.

If you can prove otherwise I'd genuinely be interested to read it.

Ray_
13-01-2011, 09:13 PM
In fact, they have "acted on the concerns of a sizeable section of the support".

Just not yours.

Had they spent all the money on players salaries and transfer fees, those of us who believe that we needed to get ourselves in a stable financial position with the right infrastructure in place first, would be feeling disenfranchised.

I can't remember anybody saying that the board needed to spend all the money on players and their salaries, but I do remember plenty about the club giving us a team that will encourage growth instead of one that drives people away from the club.

Kaiser1962
13-01-2011, 09:19 PM
mmmm Interesting quote there as I'm convinced that the share issue was over-subsribed. David Rowland was 'gifted' shares in Hibs as part of his loan of £750k to Duff to buy the club in the first place.

If you can prove otherwise I'd genuinely be interested to read it.

Will try to find the details Paul. Off the top off my head Inoco got around about a 30% shareholding basically for, as you say, loaning Duff the money which the flotation paid back, raising around £1.5m including sales to institutions etc. There was still around 1m-1.5m shares which were not taken up nor where they given to Inoco but purchased, at a reduced rate I think, by them (or Rowland basically) who then shafted all and sundry.

There were further issues after the initial flotation but those were not good for Hibs.

These are off the top of my head but I will look for the stuff and if successful I will PM you. This was all some time ago and, believe it or not, as I am not as sharp as I once was. :greengrin

ballengeich
13-01-2011, 09:27 PM
Is Barr better than Hogg?

A difficult question. If he ever gets to play for a club of the calibre that Hogg has represented we may get the chance to decide.

new malkyhib
13-01-2011, 09:55 PM
Apart from crossing fingers and everything else, keeping some lucky white heather and rubbing rabbits feet, that somehow, sometime, we manage to stumble across producing a really good team on the cheap, I have no idea what the plan is that our board have.

You're not alone Mikey - I don't think they do either.

blackpoolhibs
13-01-2011, 10:30 PM
What is this vision? When will it be reached has that been stated?

You say if we waiver from the plans it could set us back years but how many years are there ahead to fulfil the vision? I remeber when we got the SB and KT money and how many on here not saying you but a fair few saying we will benefit from this in a few years. There is to much of a grey area about some of this.

Maybe another board would have us losing £5m per year maybe a better board would have it sorted by now.

The vision is to give the manager every penny from what we take in season ticket sales. That is enough to make us competitive with every club bar the usual suspects, and a lot more than most.

And in doing that we have done blah blah blah, you know what we have done.

You are right, a different board might have us in Europe if they put us £5m in debt per year. But how long can that last? How long before we have to sell the players that got us there? And what would happen if they didn't? How much sheite would we be in then?

Everything is in place now, yet we are still losing money, what do you suggest we do?

Andy74
13-01-2011, 10:53 PM
Is Barr better than Hogg?

Hogg will be emptied. Is Barr better than Dickoh or Hanlon?

smurf
13-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Hogg will be emptied. Is Barr better than Dickoh or Hanlon?

No. Thankfully. And there's not much in it IMHO between Hogg and Barr.

Captain Trips
13-01-2011, 10:56 PM
The vision is to give the manager every penny from what we take in season ticket sales. That is enough to make us competitive with every club bar the usual suspects, and a lot more than most.

And in doing that we have done blah blah blah, you know what we have done.

You are right, a different board might have us in Europe if they put us £5m in debt per year. But how long can that last? How long before we have to sell the players that got us there? And what would happen if they didn't? How much sheite would we be in then?

Everything is in place now, yet we are still losing money, what do you suggest we do?


If we are still losing money now what is wrong with the vision and was or is it flawed when will it be the case we are not losing money? I did not mean that a board who had us £5m in debt was a success on park im was just suggesting that a different board could be doing less well both on and off park, also a better board may have had us not losing money now both scenarios are hypothetical.

There are things you might have done differently or I may have done, I wouldnt have spent so much on the training center per say. We had a bloody good run of players who got us into a better financial position with their values I dont see really any now even close to a good fee, I am just curious to know at what point in time are we supposed to be not losing money is it 10 years from now, 5 years?

J-C
13-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Is Barr better than Hogg?


I remember plenty on this board all saying that the signing of Barr would be a really good one, if Petrie was offering less than Falkirk for the same player it's no wonder we struggle to get the kind of quality needed to take us forward.

My post was to reiterate the fact the man in charge is a top C/A, put in charge of looking after Farmers investment, he knows little about investing in winning football teams, only counting the pennies to make sure we're not losing any.

With the infrastructure now in place we need to start looking at putting a team on the pitch, we now have no debt, so it's time to start upping the wages and bring in better players to take us back where we belong.

blackpoolhibs
13-01-2011, 11:06 PM
If we are still losing money now what is wrong with the vision and was or is it flawed when will it be the case we are not losing money? I did not mean that a board who had us £5m in debt was a success on park im was just suggesting that a different board could be doing less well both on and off park, also a better board may have had us not losing money now both scenarios are hypothetical.

There are things you might have done differently or I may have done, I wouldnt have spent so much on the training center per say. We had a bloody good run of players who got us into a better financial position with their values I dont see really any now even close to a good fee, I am just curious to know at what point in time are we supposed to be not losing money is it 10 years from now, 5 years?

Its pointless saying what we could or should have done. Some wouldn't have built the stand, others spent less on the training ground, too late its done and we have to look forward, not back.

I'm no financial expert, and i have no idea when we might be breaking even, but what i do think is the platform is now there for the manager.

I hope and it has to be hope, as we are reliant on the manager being good enough to build a team better than the last 3 incumbents. I think with our budget now he has the best chance any manager has in a long time.

J-C
13-01-2011, 11:06 PM
The vision is to give the manager every penny from what we take in season ticket sales. That is enough to make us competitive with every club bar the usual suspects, and a lot more than most.

And in doing that we have done blah blah blah, you know what we have done.

You are right, a different board might have us in Europe if they put us £5m in debt per year. But how long can that last? How long before we have to sell the players that got us there? And what would happen if they didn't? How much sheite would we be in then?

Everything is in place now, yet we are still losing money, what do you suggest we do?



I think we are still losing money due to the fact the supporters are not supporting the club in the numbers they should be because the board has no vision, get a decent team on the park and the supporters will come back.....pretty simple more supporters = more money to pay wages, it's not really rocket science is it.

blackpoolhibs
13-01-2011, 11:21 PM
I think we are still losing money due to the fact the supporters are not supporting the club in the numbers they should be because the board has no vision, get a decent team on the park and the supporters will come back.....pretty simple more supporters = more money to pay wages, it's not really rocket science is it.

I agree, and thats the managers job. They have been backed with more money than the top 3, each and every season. If the board have failed imo its their choice of managers. Yet when Mixu was appointed, most were happy. When Collins was appointed, most were happy, and when Hughes was appointed, most were happy.

Just read your post again, and disagree about the vision bit. Their vision was to build an infrastructure better than all the rest, thats done now, all done while winning a trophy, getting Europe twice and building a new stand and training centre since the SUABC campaign. IMO they have done a bloody good job.

Andy74
13-01-2011, 11:24 PM
I think we are still losing money due to the fact the supporters are not supporting the club in the numbers they should be because the board has no vision, get a decent team on the park and the supporters will come back.....pretty simple more supporters = more money to pay wages, it's not really rocket science is it.

I'm yet to hear a realistic example of what shape this vision from the board would take and , assuming you mean spend more, where this comes from?

Given we are paying guys maybe 3k tops to get an appreciable difference in quality you'd be looking at more than double that, maybe more.

Are you suggesting this would guarantee success and crowds which would cover another 3 million or so outlay on the wage bill? That's a lot of extra fans.

Captain Trips
13-01-2011, 11:35 PM
I agree, and thats the managers job. They have been backed with more money than the top 3, each and every season. If the board have failed imo its their choice of managers. Yet when Mixu was appointed, most were happy. When Collins was appointed, most were happy, and when Hughes was appointed, most were happy.

Just read your post again, and disagree about the vision bit. Their vision was to build an infrastructure better than all the rest, thats done now, all done while winning a trophy, getting Europe twice and building a new stand and training centre since the SUABC campaign. IMO they have done a bloody good job.

I would think that may not be entierly factual as we do not know what other teams paid for players in signing on fees etc so that is pure speculation, yes we paid fees for some players over the last few years and I dont recall any other clubs doing so but they could easily have paid large signing on fees.

I agree the infrastructure is better than all others way way better, maybe didnt need to be so much more, hard to look forward as you say when some decisions from past have us were we are. They IMO have not done enough with the playing product yes they have done a lot of things right and it would be wrong to not mention that.

J-C
14-01-2011, 12:34 AM
I agree, and thats the managers job. They have been backed with more money than the top 3, each and every season. If the board have failed imo its their choice of managers. Yet when Mixu was appointed, most were happy. When Collins was appointed, most were happy, and when Hughes was appointed, most were happy.

Just read your post again, and disagree about the vision bit. Their vision was to build an infrastructure better than all the rest, thats done now, all done while winning a trophy, getting Europe twice and building a new stand and training centre since the SUABC campaign. IMO they have done a bloody good job.


Have we really, I would almost doubt this very much, we have been backed this past 3-4 seasons but apart from buying certain players such as Bamb/Riordan etc the rest of the spending is a pittance. £50-100,000 for the majority or even free transfers in a lot of the cases, I don't want us to go overboard in wage spending but we sometimes have to speculate to accumulate. Getting rid of 10-12 players who's wages come to around £20-25,000 per week and using that money to bring in 5-6 players at £5-6,000 wouldn't break the bank as far as I can see.

J-C
14-01-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm yet to hear a realistic example of what shape this vision from the board would take and , assuming you mean spend more, where this comes from?

Given we are paying guys maybe 3k tops to get an appreciable difference in quality you'd be looking at more than double that, maybe more.

Are you suggesting this would guarantee success and crowds which would cover another 3 million or so outlay on the wage bill? That's a lot of extra fans.

See my last post.

Captain Trips
14-01-2011, 12:39 AM
Have we really, I would almost doubt this very much, we have been backed this past 3-4 seasons but apart from buying certain players such as Bamb/Riordan etc the rest of the spending is a pittance. £50-100,000 for the majority or even free transfers in a lot of the cases, I don't want us to go overboard in wage spending but we sometimes have to speculate to accumulate. Getting rid of 10-12 players who's wages come to around £20-25,000 per week and using that money to bring in 5-6 players at £5-6,000 wouldn't break the bank as far as I can see.

:agree:

Lucius Apuleius
14-01-2011, 05:39 AM
I was told a wee story a couple of night's ago which brings this into perpective.......
Darren Barr was shown round ER and East Mains, he was delighted at what he saw, Hughes showed him and his agent into Petrie's room. 5 mins later they appeared to Yogi's surprise, with Barr's agent saying he's never been so insulted, Petrie had just offered Barr £1,300 a week.............he was on £1,500 at Falkirk, enough said about where this board sees where we are going.....nowhere fast.

But is that not why you have wage negotiations JC? We offer 1,300, he says piss of give me 2,300, we say make it 1,800 and everybody is happy?

J-C
14-01-2011, 10:14 AM
But is that not why you have wage negotiations JC? We offer 1,300, he says piss of give me 2,300, we say make it 1,800 and everybody is happy?


I understand that but again Rodders shows what a skinflint he is, here was a lad a few clubs were after, being touted down south also and he offers such a derisory amount. If a club wants you, you'd think the amount offered would show just how much they wanted you, no! Obviously other clubs had offered more and indeed Hertz did and signed him, remember he was a player the majority on here definately wanted Yogi to sign as he was a standout for Falkirk.

As an aside, I'm sure Barr's agent would've told Petrie what Barr was wanting re wages, that's why he walked out when offered £1,300.

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Have we really, I would almost doubt this very much, we have been backed this past 3-4 seasons but apart from buying certain players such as Bamb/Riordan etc the rest of the spending is a pittance. £50-100,000 for the majority or even free transfers in a lot of the cases, I don't want us to go overboard in wage spending but we sometimes have to speculate to accumulate. Getting rid of 10-12 players who's wages come to around £20-25,000 per week and using that money to bring in 5-6 players at £5-6,000 wouldn't break the bank as far as I can see.

I think we have. Name me another club who have spent £350k like we did on OBrien, £200k on Maka. Wages for Stokes, Riordan Miller Brown. Have i forgot anyone? All that and what we have done off the field. In fact which clubs have been buying players even for small sums like £50k and £100k like we have in Nish and Rankin or even Bamba. And i seem to remember we actually paid more for Riordan than we sold him for. £200K i think?

One bad season and away we go again moaning like **** :rolleyes:

J-C
14-01-2011, 10:29 AM
I think we have. Name me another club who have spent £350k like we did on OBrien, £200k on Maka. Wages for Stokes, Riordan Miller Brown. Have i forgot anyone? All that and what we have done off the field. In fact which clubs have been buying players even for small sums like £50k and £100k like we have in Nish and Rankin or even Bamba. And i seem to remember we actually paid more for Riordan than we sold him for. £200K i think?

One bad season and away we go again moaning like **** :rolleyes:


Everything done off field was due to selling our best assets, Brown,Thompson,Whittaker and Fletcher.

Yes we've spent but not spent wisely, you mention Rankin, Nish, Maka, O'Brien, only a few of the many duds bought over the past few years. Surely it's time to stop spending £200-400,000 on duds and spend £500,750,000 on better quality players.

Is it only 1 bad season, yes we got Europe but come on Gary we were lucky to scrape into that due to Dundee U having a final to play and throwing away a huge lead against Motherwell. We played very poorly all last season and had a tremedous amount of luck the first half, then we were found out and Yogi didn't have the nous to change things around. Mixu was the same and JC wanted to change them all into superfit human beings overnight( which wasn't going to happen with the drinking culture at ER ). Remember JC only won the CIS cup with Mowbrays team, not his.

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:33 AM
Everything done off field was due to selling our best assets, Brown,Thompson,Whittaker and Fletcher.
How else were we ever going to do it?
Yes we've spent but not spent wisely, you mention Rankin, Nish, Maka, O'Brien, only a few of the many duds bought over the past few years. Surely it's time to stop spending £200-400,000 on duds and spend £500,750,000 on better quality players.
Surely the managers fault we have so many duds, especially when you concider how much smaller clubs manage to do better with less funds? Ok lets buy a player for £750k, remind me what type of wages he'd want?
Is it only 1 bad season, yes we got Europe but come on Gary we were lucky to scrape into that due to Dundee U having a final to play and throwing away a huge lead against Motherwell. We played very poorly all last season and had a tremedous amount of luck the first half, then we were found out and Yogi didn't have the nous to change things around. Mixu was the same and JC wanted to change them all into superfit human beings overnight( which wasn't going to happen with the drinking culture at ER ). Remember JC only won the CIS cup with Mowbrays team, not his.

If yer auntie had baws.:confused:

J-C
14-01-2011, 10:37 AM
If yer auntie had baws.:confused:

You don't get it Gary, why spend say £4,000,000 on 8-10 duds who'll disappear after 1-2 seasons doing nowt for us, when we could use that £4,000,000 on 5-6 pretty decent players who'll benefit the club. Also those 8-10 players wages would go towards bigger wages for the 5-6 players.

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:41 AM
You don't get it Gary, why spend say £4,000,000 on 8-10 duds who'll disappear after 1-2 seasons doing nowt for us, when we could use that £4,000,000 on 5-6 pretty decent players who'll benefit the club.

I do get it mate, how can other clubs do it but not us? You on the other hand don't get £750k players will be wanting £10k upwards a week wages, how on earth do we find the money to pay that?:confused:

Captain Trips
14-01-2011, 10:43 AM
I think we have. Name me another club who have spent £350k like we did on OBrien, £200k on Maka. Wages for Stokes, Riordan Miller Brown. Have i forgot anyone? All that and what we have done off the field. In fact which clubs have been buying players even for small sums like £50k and £100k like we have in Nish and Rankin or even Bamba. And i seem to remember we actually paid more for Riordan than we sold him for. £200K i think?

One bad season and away we go again moaning like **** :rolleyes:


We can throw out figures all day but they are irrelevent if we dont know what the other teams spent, you stated each and every season firstly since when? and more to the point how do you know what other clubs spent on getting in players with signing on fees etc.

One bad season again since when are you taking it from?

J-C
14-01-2011, 10:48 AM
I do get it mate, how can other clubs do it but not us? You on the other hand don't get £750k players will be wanting £10k upwards a week wages, how on earth do we find the money to pay that?:confused:

Riordan is a £750,000 player and I'm sure he'd accept less than £10k a week.

I'm not wanting the whole team to be on these wages but remember the time of Sauzee and Latapy, how much were these guys being paid compared to the rest. We need 4-5 good players in the team so we can then add younger and average players around them. are you saying we couldn't afford 4-5 players at £8k a week, if so it's no wonder we sign duds cause that's the only player we'll be able to afford if we keep payin£1.5-2k a week.

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:52 AM
We can throw out figures all day but they are irrelevent if we dont know what the other teams spent, you stated each and every season firstly since when? and more to the point how do you know what other clubs spent on getting in players with signing on fees etc.

One bad season again since when are you taking it from?

Since the SUABC campaign.

khib70
14-01-2011, 10:52 AM
I think we have. Name me another club who have spent £350k like we did on OBrien, £200k on Maka. Wages for Stokes, Riordan Miller Brown. Have i forgot anyone? All that and what we have done off the field. In fact which clubs have been buying players even for small sums like £50k and £100k like we have in Nish and Rankin or even Bamba. And i seem to remember we actually paid more for Riordan than we sold him for. £200K i think?

One bad season and away we go again moaning like **** :rolleyes:

One bad season? What about the one under Mixu, most of which you spent moaning and calling for the manager's head?

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:55 AM
Riordan is a £750,000 player and I'm sure he'd accept less than £10k a week.

I'm not wanting the whole team to be on these wages but remember the time of Sauzee and Latapy, how much were these guys being paid compared to the rest. We need 4-5 good players in the team so we can then add younger and average players around them. are you saying we couldn't afford 4-5 players at £8k a week, if so it's no wonder we sign duds cause that's the only player we'll be able to afford if we keep payin£1.5-2k a week.

Riordan wants more than we can afford. You do know the SKY money is not there anymore? Ok lets start with what you said. Lets spend £4m on 6 players, then add their wages on top. How much is that exactly?

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 10:59 AM
One bad season? What about the one under Mixu, most of which you spent moaning and calling for the manager's head?

Exactly, and i'm glad you brought that up. I have previously said this, but will say it again. I was wrong, and when i sat back and looked at the bigger picture i saw that. We all want whats best for Hibs, we all want the club to spend more money, even me. Yet where does this money come from?

J-C
14-01-2011, 11:01 AM
Riordan wants more than we can afford. You do know the SKY money is not there anymore? Ok lets start with what you said. Lets spend £4m on 6 players, then add their wages on top. How much is that exactly?


But surely by emptying the 10-12 duds will free up at least £24-30k a week enough to give £5-6k a week to 5-6 players, or we could keep the same wage structure and by another load of duds at £2 a week.:confused:

Captain Trips
14-01-2011, 11:04 AM
Since the SUABC campaign.

Well it depends on whats a bad season, if you believe what you suggest that we spent the most apart from the OF and Hearts season after season would finishing below 4th not be a bad season then?

However I cannot use something you said that I disagree with to argue my point, IMO we have had several bad seasons, I ask you again you stated we spent or spend more season after season than the top 3 which must surely be an opinion and not a fact unless you know what every other club have paid out. The facts are we spent more than the top 3 on a training facilty thats fine and a fact we spent more on our stadium than the top 3 and possibly including the top 3 in that period you suggest, did we spend more on team? No way you can know that unless you are about to tell me.

Lucius Apuleius
14-01-2011, 11:35 AM
I understand that but again Rodders shows what a skinflint he is, here was a lad a few clubs were after, being touted down south also and he offers such a derisory amount. If a club wants you, you'd think the amount offered would show just how much they wanted you, no! Obviously other clubs had offered more and indeed Hertz did and signed him, remember he was a player the majority on here definately wanted Yogi to sign as he was a standout for Falkirk.

As an aside, I'm sure Barr's agent would've told Petrie what Barr was wanting re wages, that's why he walked out when offered £1,300.

Know what you are saying JC but can also see RPs point in this instance. I am not sticking up for the board here by the way just stating I would probably do the same in his shoes. Offer a lowish wage knowing you are going to have to raise it. I have never had to walk out a wage negotiation in my puff, always reached mutual agreement.

greenlex
14-01-2011, 02:11 PM
You don't get it Gary, why spend say £4,000,000 on 8-10 duds who'll disappear after 1-2 seasons doing nowt for us, when we could use that £4,000,000 on 5-6 pretty decent players who'll benefit the club. Also those 8-10 players wages would go towards bigger wages for the 5-6 players.

Wages apart being a problem this has been a relatively successful model in the recent past. Jones Sproule Murphy Boozy Sheils etc.
Who knows maybe a change of direction is where we started ti go with Miller Riordan and Stokes. With so many out if contract in the Summer and a few of the kids getting contracts I could see thus happening. It's a gamble with the prize being?

blackpoolhibs
14-01-2011, 02:42 PM
Well it depends on whats a bad season, if you believe what you suggest that we spent the most apart from the OF and Hearts season after season would finishing below 4th not be a bad season then?

However I cannot use something you said that I disagree with to argue my point, IMO we have had several bad seasons, I ask you again you stated we spent or spend more season after season than the top 3 which must surely be an opinion and not a fact unless you know what every other club have paid out. The facts are we spent more than the top 3 on a training facilty thats fine and a fact we spent more on our stadium than the top 3 and possibly including the top 3 in that period you suggest, did we spend more on team? No way you can know that unless you are about to tell me.

I think any season we don't fight for 4th place at least is a failure. Although in saying that with whats gone on in the background with the training centre and new stand perhaps its understandable now imo we did not achieve that under mixu?

I did not agree with quite a lot thats gone on in the past 5 years, but looking back i can see i was wrong, there's nothing wrong in admitting that. I do see the bigger picture now, i couldn't then. As i have said before, the platform is in place now for our manger to succeed. This manager more than any other since McLeish has the best chance ever, and without putting the club at risk, its over to him now.