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smurf
09-01-2011, 05:23 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

BroxburnHibee
09-01-2011, 05:28 PM
This might surprise you :greengrin


:top marks

Great post.

HUTCHYHIBBY
09-01-2011, 05:34 PM
What position does Plan B play? will he give up his rapping career?

Cropley10
09-01-2011, 05:39 PM
Excellent post Smurf. Well thought out points.

Best thing I've read on here in ages :greengrin

clerriehibs
09-01-2011, 05:42 PM
If the players are happy with their lot and have no ambition about them, then there's no need for them to try very hard.

All that happens at Hibs is the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked.

A pattern does emerge :rolleyes:

discman
09-01-2011, 05:44 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.



Correct they were flooded with applications,103/105 I think,however none came from CC, so why did he not apply for the Hibs job?

And why was there noone suitable from the 100+ ?

Was DA foisted upon CC, a man he didnt know and had never worked with?

Not sure when he sold them his "vision" maybe it was when he failed to get the job last time! :greengrin

matty_f
09-01-2011, 05:49 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

Agree with that.:agree:

ScottB
09-01-2011, 05:54 PM
Well thus far we are a week into the window, so lets see what happens this month.

The Board backed the last two managers with significant funds, I have little doubt CC will receive the same.

However, I don't want to see us sign players for the hell of it, that sort of situation is why we are where we are now. If we have to wait to get the right player then I'd rather wait, than give deals to lesser options.

I'd be perfectly happy with a few loans in this month to be honest, ahead of the big job in the summer.

Stevie Reid
09-01-2011, 05:56 PM
I have just said similar myself on another thread but with a pretty harsh critique of CC's performance thus far: -


I am a level headed supporter who has backed every manager we have ever had, and supported the board's business plan until now - however...

We need to face up to reality, and fast - if we carry on the way we are going, and there is not a dramatic improvement, we will be relegated. We have not beaten a bottom 6 team all season, and the only way to get out of our position is to beat the teams around us. The other teams surrounding us know how to pick up points to survive, and our only other hope - Aberdeen - will not look back after doing what we should've done and appointed Brown and Knox. Let's see how many points they finish above us at the end of the season.

I almost bored myself arguing the case for appointing Brown before Calderwood arrived, but unless we were the team that Brown turned down (which I find almost impossible to believe), we have made a HUGE error. Appointing CB and AK was as close to a no brainer as you can get for a managerial appointment, which are almost always a risk. The experience and knowledge that they would have brought, along with great contacts, an appealing style of football, and a phenomenal win rate at Motherwell, would have had us climbing up the league way before now, I'm positive of that. CB has won more games in his first 4 than Calderwood has managed as yet. And if we did pay compensation for CC and DA when Brown and Knox were working without contracts, that's even harder to swallow.

As a realistic, level headed supporter I do not expect miracles from Calderwood, but I would hope by now to see some tangible improvement in results (most importantly) and performances - but there is absolutely no doubt that we are getting worse. We know the players aren't great, but we do NOT have the worst squad in the league, or even come close to it - so keeping this group of players in the league until the mass clearout in the summer should not be too difficult a task. Alas it is looking beyond Calderwood at the moment. We are not good enough to go and beat teams, we are not even good enough to shut a game down and try to nick points - it's unbelievable to think that CC managed a team to 25 clean sheets in a season. To start his tenure with 3 defeats against Aberdeen, Utd and Hearts, and then to begin the next round of fixtures with 1 point out of the 9 (against a Utd team who had barely kicked a ball in weeks), shows how little positive impact he has had (never mind the fact that Aberdeen were in shocking form before their first win, then had 7 defeats in a row prior to beating us again).

Yes the board must accept responsibility too. This transfer window is the ONLY chance we have to save our season, and we cannot afford to wait until the last hours of January 31st to do business - in the first week we have brought in no one and another 2 games have passed, with no win and no goals. The fact that we have sold one of our most important players during that time is absurd. We need 2 or 3 players who can come straight into our first team now, and if that means paying over the odds to get them, so be it. Our new stand (which I still support the building of) will look really stupid when we are in the first division.

In conclusion, action must be taken immediately to bring players in. If that is done and there is still no improvement, drastic steps MUST be taken. Would we look stupid if we sacked Calderwood after such a small length of time? Yes. Would it matter a **** if it kept us in the SPL? No ****ing way.

Reality is kicking our door in and we must respond.

We MUST allow him to bring in 3 players who will come in the first team immediately and help us pick up points and win games - not just for our survival this season, but also so we know who we are entrusting the biggest ever rebuilding job at Hibs to. We need to know that CC has an eye for a player before he brings in around 16 in the summer. I need to see some signs from him this season that he is the man for the job.

We are in a financial position to do so, it must happen, and happen now - not in the later hours of Jan 31.

Silent_Hibee
09-01-2011, 06:08 PM
If the players are happy with their lot and have no ambition about them, then there's no need for them to try very hard.

All that happens at Hibs is the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked.

A pattern does emerge :rolleyes:

Bang on Correct.

Yogi took us to 4th and Europe - FACT, results/form was very poor - FACT, yogi said from very early in his reign that he wanted to change things around and that the summer of 2011 was the time that that could happen becuase of the contractual status of thhis group of under performers - FACT

the board has no balls, have not properly supported any of our managers and when the fans start to get restless they crumble.

PETRIE AND LINDSAY OUT

Cropley10
09-01-2011, 06:13 PM
Well thus far we are a week into the window, so lets see what happens this month.

The Board backed the last two managers with significant funds, I have little doubt CC will receive the same.

However, I don't want to see us sign players for the hell of it, that sort of situation is why we are where we are now. If we have to wait to get the right player then I'd rather wait, than give deals to lesser options.

I'd be perfectly happy with a few loans in this month to be honest, ahead of the big job in the summer.

But what interest do loans have in keeping Hibs up? We have Grounds on loan for example - not good enough, not interested IMHO.

Surely it would be better to buy two players now, minimum, who will form the nucleus of our team for next season, and who will help keep us up.

No time left for fiddling while Rome burns.

The extensive backing previous managers have been given has given us this team that's now at rock bottom. Everyone agrees it's quality not quantity. Where is this 'quality??

ScottB
09-01-2011, 06:14 PM
Bang on Correct.

Yogi took us to 4th and Europe - FACT, results/form was very poor - FACT, yogi said from very early in his reign that he wanted to change things around and that the summer of 2011 was the time that that could happen becuase of the contractual status of thhis group of under performers - FACT

the board has no balls, have not properly supported any of our managers and when the fans start to get restless they crumble.

PETRIE AND LINDSAY OUT

But when people start staying away because they blame said manager, what are they supposed to do?

Secondly, our managers haven't been blameless, and there's been a huge turnover in players in recent years, must be the best part of 30 new guys coming in under Mixu and Hughes. Our players are lazy and seem to get worse the longer they are here, the constants in that are the coaches working with them, how long have Stevenson and co been in their positions? That hardly any of our players can string two bloody passes together leads me to seriously question their abilities.

Thirdly, your agreeing with someone who is blaming the players, and us for overreacting and pushing out managers by saying we should push out Petrie and Lindsay!

ScottB
09-01-2011, 06:19 PM
But what interest do loans have in keeping Hibs up? We have Grounds on loan for example - not good enough, not interested IMHO.

Surely it would be better to buy two players now, minimum, who will form the nucleus of our team for next season, and who will help keep us up.

No time left for fiddling while Rome burns.

The extensive backing previous managers have been given has given us this team that's now at rock bottom. Everyone agrees it's quality not quantity. Where is this 'quality??

What interest do players who could always bitch and moan till they get themselves sold have in keeping us up?

Given our record of signing players in the last few years, what makes you think buying two players now will make any difference? Obviously, should CC identify two players (or 3, or 1 or whatever) that would make the difference that could be bought, then fine, but it makes no difference to me.

My point was that we shouldn't simply throw cash around in a panic, then end up with more deadwood hoovering up cash for a few years that we can't get shot of.

Plenty other clubs loan players in with great success, so to say any loanee wouldn't be bothered and wouldn't try is a nonsense. Motherwell for example have done well out of it recently, and secondly, we may be able to secure a better quality of player on loan than we could afford to buy. It all depends on CC's contacts.

Cropley10
09-01-2011, 06:25 PM
What interest do players who could always bitch and moan till they get themselves sold have in keeping us up?

Given our record of signing players in the last few years, what makes you think buying two players now will make any difference? Obviously, should CC identify two players (or 3, or 1 or whatever) that would make the difference that could be bought, then fine, but it makes no difference to me.

My point was that we shouldn't simply throw cash around in a panic, then end up with more deadwood hoovering up cash for a few years that we can't get shot of.

Plenty other clubs loan players in with great success, so to say any loanee wouldn't be bothered and wouldn't try is a nonsense. Motherwell for example have done well out of it recently, and secondly, we may be able to secure a better quality of player on loan than we could afford to buy. It all depends on CC's contacts.

Players on loan have a job to go back to when it all goes Pete Tong.

Buy quality not quantity in this window, make them the nucleus of the team, or we only have do exactly the same thing in May/June. Surely it's a false economy to avoid putting the very same thing off till then - which seems to be what you're saying re not 'splashing the cash'.

Or record at loaning in is abysmal. Almost pointless.

patlowe
09-01-2011, 06:29 PM
Pretty much agree with all of the OP but January is a notoriously difficult time to get in the players you want/need. What kind of team is going to sell a player (of good enough quality to make a significant difference to Hibs) midway through the season, at a price we can realistically afford. Panic signings at this time of year tend to be of the Zarabi variety. I think it's a case of hoping CC can pull a rabbit out of the hat, while gambling that Duffy and Zemmama make a big difference when fit. Hopefully we survive and can rebuild properly in the summer.

ScottB
09-01-2011, 06:30 PM
Players on loan have a job to go back to when it all goes Pete Tong.

Buy quality not quantity in this window, make them the nucleus of the team, or we only have do exactly the same thing in May/June. Surely it's a false economy to avoid putting the very same thing off till then - which seems to be what you're saying re not 'splashing the cash'.

Or record at loaning in is abysmal. Almost pointless.

Well I'd rather that if we were investing significant amounts of cash, we take as much time as possible to be sure it is done right.

I'd love us to bring in two top notch players, but can we? On paper Liam Miller should be our best player by a mile, and costs us a big wage, yet he is mince more often than not. That kind of situation is something we simply can't afford.

Yes, loan players have a job to go back to, but how they do here could well make or break their careers at the club they are at. Sure, ideally we bring in some great players of our own, but if we can't do that (because after all, just deciding we want to buy new players doesn't mean it will happen) then loaning in some strikes me as a much better option than taking a punt on signing guys who weren't our first choice.

BEEJ
09-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Bang on Correct.

Yogi took us to 4th and Europe - FACT, results/form was very poor - FACT, yogi said from very early in his reign that he wanted to change things around and that the summer of 2011 was the time that that could happen becuase of the contractual status of thhis group of under performers - FACT
I'd like to see that direct quote from when Yogi was manager; I don't recall it.

He has said it since leaving of course, by means of self-justification.

greenlex
09-01-2011, 07:12 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

Smurf you will get no argument from me on the basis of that post other than the players listed. Do not forget that all of them featured yesterday and were at best poor against a team two leauges lower. If Calderwood could get more out of most of them he would have done it. Rip it up and start again in the Summer for me after doing enough to stay up. If I thought telling every player that was out of contract in the summer to just go now and take the hit on their wages till their contract was up whilst replacing the lot of them then it would be a price worth paying. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view signing players on longer term contracts in the January window isn't the best. Two or three loans or short term deals to see us stay up and get on with the cull and rebuilding come June.

Kaiser1962
09-01-2011, 07:21 PM
You might want to sit down Smurf but that is a good post. :greengrin.

The only thing I would add is that we dont know the board are NOT backing him. We have no idea if we have tried to sign five players or none at all. And if we have been knocked back for whatever reason do we wait and try again or do we go for another target but not as good?





I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

ScottB
09-01-2011, 07:23 PM
CC was in the paper this week complaining that the spate of manager changes in England has thwarted some attempts at getting players in already...

CropleyWasGod
09-01-2011, 07:26 PM
CC was in the paper this week complaining that the spate of manager changes in England has thwarted some attempts at getting players in already...

Now, if this had been posted earlier, it would have saved an awful lot of uninformed posting, half-truths, spleen-venting and attempted suicides.

Lest I get accused of being a Happy Slapper, or whatever it is these days.....SOURCE??

ScottB
09-01-2011, 07:36 PM
Now, if this had been posted earlier, it would have saved an awful lot of uninformed posting, half-truths, spleen-venting and attempted suicides.

Lest I get accused of being a Happy Slapper, or whatever it is these days.....SOURCE??

Read it in the Metro on the train one day this week, I forget which haha but either Wednesday, Thursday or Friday

hibsbollah
09-01-2011, 07:40 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

Good post:agree:

mim
09-01-2011, 07:50 PM
As a general rule, the quality players that Hibs need are simply not available in this window. Why would they be? If they are quality and not in their club's plans, then that club is probably playing at a much higher level than Hibs and the players in question would therefore command big salaries.

Loans are a good option, but Hibs have also got to start blooding our own youngsters. Spoony and Hanlon are two of our better players and there may be more like them waiting to be given a chance. The least that youngsters bring to the team is enthusiasm, which we are badly lacking at the moment.

Jimmy Belter
09-01-2011, 08:19 PM
I'd like to see that direct quote from when Yogi was manager; I don't recall it.

He has said it since leaving of course, by means of self-justification.

YOGI had stated in a number of times in the media that the job was a long term project.

THE FACT THE CLUB HAD ABOUT 16 PLAYERS OUT CONTRACT AND NO WORD FROM CLUB ABOUT CONTRACT TALKS SPEAKS VOLUMES.

PLAYERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

We should supported YOGI and let built own team, yes we bad run but after 6 games or so is a disgrace.

Watching Hibs now kicking the ball up the park with no game plan is horrible.
At least YOGI teams tried to play passing football.

greenlex
09-01-2011, 08:23 PM
YOGI had stated in a number of times in the media that the job was a long term project.

THE FACT THE CLUB HAD ABOUT 16 PLAYERS OUT CONTRACT AND NO WORD FROM CLUB ABOUT CONTRACT TALKS SPEAKS VOLUMES.

PLAYERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

We should supported YOGI and let built own team, yes we bad run but after 6 games or so is a disgrace.

Watching Hibs now kicking the ball up the park with no game plan is horrible.
At least YOGI teams tried to play passing football.
Mr Belter I dont know what games you have taken in over the llast seson and a half but football rarely entered the minds of fans leaving the games. The odd flash but that was about it. Tactics mainly consisted of lumoing the ball up to Nish who even then fell on his erse. Very few execeptions to this during games.

Kaiser1962
09-01-2011, 08:23 PM
I'd like to see that direct quote from when Yogi was manager; I don't recall it.

He has said it since leaving of course, by means of self-justification.

I'm pretty sure both him and Rod both said as much when questioned on the subject of contracts and short-ish term loans.

ScottB
09-01-2011, 08:28 PM
Yogi signed a fair few players in his time here, so lets not think of him having to struggle by with someone elses squad.

Hughes and Mixu spent more money than any Hibs manager since McLeish.

SMAXXA
09-01-2011, 08:53 PM
Not even gona attempt to read the op in full or any other but as far as im concerned the title of the post said all that needs to be said :top marks

Gatecrasher
09-01-2011, 09:01 PM
I've no idea whether CC is the right man or not. Results since his appointment have been dreadful. I thought and expected that out of that shower he would have got better out of them. However, its obvious that there are REAL attitude problems from the MAJORITY of our players. So what hope has any Manager when the majority are soon out of contract?

One things for sure and that's that the Board of our club thought Colin Calderwood was the right man for the job. Having dismissed John Hughes because of our dreadful run of results and form they knew it was a very important appointment. Apparently they were flooded with applications. They took their time apparently paid Newcastle United a six figure sum and appointed CC.

So why did they appoint him? Was it that they expected him to be some kind of miracle worker turning around a horrendous sequence of results and performances with the same bunch of soon to be out of contract players?

If they did they are bonkers. And my pro board friends will be pleased to learn that no i don't think that they are actually 'bonkers'.

So they MUST have appointed him knowing and with a view to HUGE turnover in personnel. They MUST have appointed him having been sold his idea and vision in how he would undertake this process. The contacts and targets he would have in mind etc etc.

Now of course with the majority of this SHOWER they are unfortunately under contract until the summer.

So the plan was probably 'Make do best you can with what you've got' until the summer.

IF it was then it's seriously time to tear up that plan.

Things have changed. We are far worse than what we thought that we were when sacking Hughes (Though some of us were pointing out in the summer that there had been a trend of Jan-May results of RELEGATION). The gravity of our position must not and can not be underestimated.

Yesterday's performance was proof that we are better than nobody in the SPL.

We can't just say "Well thankfully St Mirren and Hamilton are equally as bad". Yes they probably are.

But i doubt they have a mentality of our lot. They knew before a ball was kicked what their season was likely to be. They have a squad equipped and shaped around it....

Think about it. If you are Danny Lennon or Billy Reid do you want a Hibs or Inverness in the mix? Hibs every time. Because the pressure is all on Hibs. They are NOT prepared for it. The fans can't cope with it. The pressure becomes unbearable. And with our SHOWER of half hearted so and so's soon out of contract they'll certainly not cope with it.

And it's time to accept that we are where we are. We ARE in the RELEGATION mix. We have a shower with the wrong mentality. All looking beyond the summer. We are frail and exposed at the back. Particularly at full back.

In midfield we have slow players pulling out of balls 60:40 in OUR favour. No creativity.

Up front we are impotent. Unless Derek does something amazing we never look like scoring a goal.

So Plan B needs to come into play NOW. We can't take the risk on waiting for the summer because we simply can't trust this SHOWER.

Yesterday i concluded that we have a small group of players we can have any faith with. They are in no particular order;

Brown
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Dickoh
Murray (however, sadly his legs are fast going..)
Zouma
Riordan
Duffy (though to early to tell)

Won't be easy but we need to fast find a left back (a kid isn't the solution where we are) and a couple of midfielders minimum. One with real ball winning abilities and hopefully a bit of presence. The other a bit more creative.

And up front a goalscorer in a Killen type mould.

Should the Board not adapt and change their course they might get away with it. One hell of a gamble though and at the end of it there will still be huge discontent within the support unprepared to renew season tickets.

And their latest managerial appointment lingering on. Just...

The board must back their appointment. Now. Pay off those that need to go if we can or tell them they are finished until the summer. No training with the first team and no games.

And bring in players wanted by their appointment.
well said :top marks

BEEJ
09-01-2011, 09:16 PM
YOGI had stated in a number of times in the media that the job was a long term project.
Yes, as all managers would under the circumstances. I was asking for the specific quote from 'early in his reign'.


THE FACT THE CLUB HAD ABOUT 16 PLAYERS OUT CONTRACT AND NO WORD FROM CLUB ABOUT CONTRACT TALKS SPEAKS VOLUMES.

PLAYERS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
It speaks of all manner of things, quality of personnel being just one. It speaks of a desire to negotiate down player Ts & Cs in the midst of an expected glut of players without clubs this summer.

It also speaks of a Board not wishing to commit to expensive player contracts while the shadow of relegation still hangs over us.


We should supported YOGI and let built own team, yes we bad run but after 6 games or so is a disgrace.
This is just daft. :greengrin Have you counted the games that we played from mid February 2010 until Yogi left? Take a look on the official site at the results we endured over that time.


I'm pretty sure both him and Rod both said as much when questioned on the subject of contracts and short-ish term loans.
The original post stated this:


yogi said from very early in his reign that he wanted to change things around and that the summer of 2011 was the time that that could happen becuase of the contractual status of thhis group

Therefore it is being suggested that Yogi was talking about this 'strategy' from, say Christmas 2009. Nonsense.

The dialogue around the unusual contract status only kicked off in the summer of 2010 when the situation became apparent to members of the media.

nortonhibby
09-01-2011, 09:35 PM
If the players are happy with their lot and have no ambition about them, then there's no need for them to try very hard.

All that happens at Hibs is the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked. New manager comes in, he can't do much other than mess about with the playing staff already on board. Results don't improve, the fans get restless, the only target available where things might change if they complain enough is the manager, before too long the manager gets sacked.

A pattern does emerge :rolleyes:

Very good post Colin needs time lets give him 2 years to sort this mess out we cant just sack managers willy nilly was not Ferguson almost sacked 20 years ago ?

Colin cost is money he has an excellent pedigree and he got left a very poor player pool to pick from

We must be patient

Jimmy Belter
09-01-2011, 09:44 PM
PLAYERS OUT OFF CONTRACT

The fact there was so about 16 & the club/manager had not started any talks
would only mean they where getting shipped out ?

In any business you would try hold onto your best assett/unless the time right to sell.

Yes the back end of last season bad run but over season we 4th & Europe first time in 4 seasons. (With majority of squad that finished 6th 3 seasons in a row.)

Sir David Gray
09-01-2011, 09:56 PM
Calderwood should be backed as long as we don't get relegated this season. An 11th place finish would do me this year and then we can start again next season.

If we do get relegated, he should go and the board should go with him. He came in with 30 games of the season left, and although he'll only have had one transfer window to bring in his own players, with the squad that we do have, if we get relegated, I will consider his appointment to have been a complete failure.

sleeping giant
09-01-2011, 10:02 PM
And bring in players wanted by their appointment.

I agree. I was hoping we could have made it to the end of the season as there would be more choice of players but we need strengthening now.

I will be very very concerned if we don't bring in a couple of players.

TBH though , i thought we would have had them in before the Ayr match.

blackpoolhibs
09-01-2011, 10:10 PM
CC will be backed, we back our managers each and every one of them. It will be how he spends whats available that determines how we do. Its a myth there are no decent players out there in January too.

Bamba and Killen came in January did they not? If CC can sign a player or two like those he really wants in January, then fine, but if its Loans to get us through, then thats fine in my book too. The thing we dont want to do is bring in panic buys, and fill the squad with more dross, just for the sake of getting someone in.

sleeping giant
09-01-2011, 10:17 PM
CC will be backed, we back our managers each and every one of them. It will be how he spends whats available that determines how we do. Its a myth there are no decent players out there in January too.

Bamba and Killen came in January did they not? If CC can sign a player or two like those he really wants in January, then fine, but if its Loans to get us through, then thats fine in my book too. The thing we dont want to do is bring in panic buys, and fill the squad with more dross, just for the sake of getting someone in.

Completely agree. We need to bolster the team and we need new blood desperately.
Rod needs to back CC in this window.

Silent_Hibee
09-01-2011, 10:21 PM
ScottyB

Mixu spent money on nish and rankine granted, who did yogi spend money on? :confused:

nortonhibby
09-01-2011, 10:22 PM
CC will be backed, we back our managers each and every one of them. It will be how he spends whats available that determines how we do. Its a myth there are no decent players out there in January too.

Bamba and Killen came in January did they not? If CC can sign a player or two like those he really wants in January, then fine, but if its Loans to get us through, then thats fine in my book too. The thing we dont want to do is bring in panic buys, and fill the squad with more dross, just for the sake of getting someone in.

We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

blackpoolhibs
09-01-2011, 10:23 PM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

I dont doubt for one minute CC wont be backed.

sleeping giant
09-01-2011, 10:24 PM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

Thats alright then ! I was worried for a moment.

Silent_Hibee
09-01-2011, 10:31 PM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

End of Jan i wont be calling RP a genius

PaulSmith
09-01-2011, 10:33 PM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

That's a couple of time in the last 24hrs norton you've posted the same message, where is the confidence coming from?

Toaods
09-01-2011, 10:37 PM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

interesting ....Gordon Strachan was asked about Celtic signing Llundberg today and Rob MacLean asked if he would be a good signing as he seemed to have headed to American football to escape the pressure of the English league.

Strachan drew comparison to when he signed Roy Keane and he stated that as a player when you line up to head out the tunnel it inspires you to know you have such a quality player there alongside you.

I immediately thought that this is most likely the impact Sauzee and Latapy had on us when they arrived. Not only does it inspire but takes the heat off the others who can't cope with the burden of expectancy to deliver under pressure.

So yes, your theory may well ring true but at this moment in time I doubt many inspirational players would want to join us, certainly not in this window. This is the point where we need to get some hard *******s in to kick our way out of bother.

nb was thinking today as I watched the Leicester game, Bamba maybe went for a smallish fee if we get a few in on loan from them with no costs involved.....then all of a sudden Robbie Neilsen took a throw in.....:greengrin

Cropley10
09-01-2011, 10:37 PM
That's a couple of time in the last 24hrs norton you've posted the same message, where is the confidence coming from?

Good question! Norton must be on the "inside"

Hibbyradge
09-01-2011, 10:41 PM
I dont doubt for one minute CC wont be backed.

Erm, I don't doubt he will be backed. :wink:

blackpoolhibs
09-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Erm, I don't doubt he will be backed. :wink:

A John Smiths moment Dave. :greengrin

Hibbyradge
09-01-2011, 10:47 PM
A John Smiths moment Dave. :greengrin

Claire from work...:faf:

Sir David Gray
09-01-2011, 10:48 PM
CC will be backed, we back our managers each and every one of them. It will be how he spends whats available that determines how we do. Its a myth there are no decent players out there in January too.

Bamba and Killen came in January did they not? If CC can sign a player or two like those he really wants in January, then fine, but if its Loans to get us through, then thats fine in my book too. The thing we dont want to do is bring in panic buys, and fill the squad with more dross, just for the sake of getting someone in.

Killen did but Bamba signed at the end of a summer transfer window.

Some of our other January transfers in recent years;

Graeme Smith
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Ian Murray
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Andy McNeil
Antonio Murray
Amadou Konte
Chris Hogg
Gary Caldwell

blackpoolhibs
09-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Killen did but Bamba signed at the end of a summer transfer window.

Some of our other January transfers in recent years;

Graeme Smith
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Ian Murray
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Andy McNeil
Antonio Murray
Amadou Konte
Chris Hogg
Gary Caldwell

Aye thats right, i remember his first game, St Mirren i think. Played very well in midfield, and was sent off late in the match. 2-1 win if my memory is correct?

Sir David Gray
09-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Aye thats right, i remember his first game, St Mirren i think. Played very well in midfield, and was sent off late in the match. 2-1 win if my memory is correct?

Is it Bamba you're talking about? If so, his debut was against Dundee Utd, we did win 2-1 and he was sent off.

As Meat Loaf once said, two out of three ain't bad. :greengrin

WindyMiller
09-01-2011, 10:58 PM
Killen did but Bamba signed at the end of a summer transfer window.

Some of our other January transfers in recent years;

Graeme Smith
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Ian Murray
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Andy McNeil
Antonio Murray
Amadou Konte
Chris Hogg
Gary Caldwell

I think you could call that a mixed bag!
:rolleyes:

BEEJ
10-01-2011, 12:07 AM
Killen did but Bamba signed at the end of a summer transfer window.

Some of our other January transfers in recent years;

Graeme Smith
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Ian Murray
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Andy McNeil
Antonio Murray
Amadou Konte
Chris Hogg
Gary Caldwell
:agree: Plus .....

Mark Brown
Alan Gow
Ivan Sproule
Denes Rosa
Jonatan Johanssen
Thomas Sowumni

As WindyMiller said, "a mixed bag". :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
10-01-2011, 08:46 AM
Is it Bamba you're talking about? If so, his debut was against Dundee Utd, we did win 2-1 and he was sent off.

As Meat Loaf once said, two out of three ain't bad. :greengrin

:greengrin

PaulSmith
10-01-2011, 10:03 AM
Killen did but Bamba signed at the end of a summer transfer window.

Some of our other January transfers in recent years;

Graeme Smith - Brighton were very happy to see him go
John Rankin - JC didn't want him and did Mixu or was deal aready done?
Colin Nish - Deal was already in place for Mixu
Abderraouf Zarabi - oh dear
Ian Murray - Wanted to come back to Hibs.
Oumar Konde - Tony Mowbray signing after trials at ER
Paul Dalglish - didnae have a club.
Andy McNeil - Released by Southampton at the time & had nae club.
Antonio Murray - Now playing with Hitchin, nuff said.
Amadou Konte - Trialist that nae one else wanted.Wonder why.
Chris Hogg - signed whilst still injured about 6 year ago
Gary Caldwell - taken on loan from Newcastle as a laddie, signed permantly in the summer


Yes I suppose the Board have backed the manager in signing players but look at the market that they are being asked to shop in.

Speedway
10-01-2011, 10:05 AM
We only need 3 players of real quality to turn this team round RP Will sanction the funds for these deals and they are not panic buys wait till the end off this month you will be calling RP A genius be patient.

Norton.

An Ex Scotland International who played for the Hun and an Ex-Scotland international who did not play for the Hun, both of whom are in their 30's is not 'genius'.

Who is the third?

WindyMiller
10-01-2011, 10:06 AM
Yes I suppose the Board have backed the manager in signing players but look at the market that they are being asked to shop in.

But it's surely the same market as 9 of the 12 SPL clubs.

:confused:

Wheat Hound
10-01-2011, 10:17 AM
Norton.

An Ex Scotland International who played for the Hun and an Ex-Scotland international who did not play for the Hun, both of whom are in their 30's is not 'genius'.

Who is the third?

I take it Christian Dailly is the first player, is Callum Davidson the other? If so, I hope that Lionel Messi is the third as the first two ain't genius or even a brainfart.

Speedway
10-01-2011, 10:29 AM
I take it Christian Dailly is the first player, is Callum Davidson the other? If so, I hope that Lionel Messi is the third as the first two ain't genius or even a brainfart.

If only the second was as good as Callum Davidson.

PaulSmith
10-01-2011, 10:40 AM
But it's surely the same market as 9 of the 12 SPL clubs.

:confused:

You think that Hibs should be in the same market for players as clubs with 30, 40 & 50 % less turnover?

Wheat Hound
10-01-2011, 10:46 AM
If only the second was as good as Callum Davidson.

Oh dear. I'm stumped then. Callum Davidson would be bad enough. Who would be worse than him?

smurf
10-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Oh dear. I'm stumped then. Callum Davidson would be bad enough. Who would be worse than him?

I'm intrigued...

Silky
10-01-2011, 01:29 PM
The board HAVE to back Calderwood. Someone mentioned earlier on in this thread that there has been a massive turn over of players in recent years. There has also been a large turnover of MANAGERS!

I think what we need now is a wee bit stability. This season is a write-off and we need to now plan for next season and beyond. Calderwood has to be given time. I heard a good point made by a Premiership manager in England who said the January transfer window was useless as nobody comes out of contract then, so all they can really do is sign pre-contracts and sign for clubs in the summer anyway! The main time for Calderwood is going to be the summer, when he'll get a chance to get rid of the guff he has inherited and get a pre-season to work with HIS team!

As a club, though, we are now at the stage where we have to be giving managers longer that 1 year-18 months. And, sadly, if that means one or two bad seasons, I think we have to accept that. I think we're too short termist and if we have one crap season, knees start to jerk!! Re-building takes time. It will take Calderwood time to get his guys in and get them playing his way. Sacking him so early does no one any favours. After all, whose gonna take the job in the future if they know they're only going to get a year at it!

Speedway
10-01-2011, 01:40 PM
The board HAVE to back Calderwood. Someone mentioned earlier on in this thread that there has been a massive turn over of players in recent years. There has also been a large turnover of MANAGERS!

I think what we need now is a wee bit stability. This season is a write-off and we need to now plan for next season and beyond. Calderwood has to be given time. I heard a good point made by a Premiership manager in England who said the January transfer window was useless as nobody comes out of contract then, so all they can really do is sign pre-contracts and sign for clubs in the summer anyway! The main time for Calderwood is going to be the summer, when he'll get a chance to get rid of the guff he has inherited and get a pre-season to work with HIS team!

As a club, though, we are now at the stage where we have to be giving managers longer that 1 year-18 months. And, sadly, if that means one or two bad seasons, I think we have to accept that. I think we're too short termist and if we have one crap season, knees start to jerk!! Re-building takes time. It will take Calderwood time to get his guys in and get them playing his way. Sacking him so early does no one any favours. After all, whose gonna take the job in the future if they know they're only going to get a year at it!

The jerks come out if we have one bad pass, nevermind season.

Jim44
10-01-2011, 01:53 PM
The board HAVE to back Calderwood. Someone mentioned earlier on in this thread that there has been a massive turn over of players in recent years. There has also been a large turnover of MANAGERS!

I think what we need now is a wee bit stability. This season is a write-off and we need to now plan for next season and beyond. Calderwood has to be given time. I heard a good point made by a Premiership manager in England who said the January transfer window was useless as nobody comes out of contract then, so all they can really do is sign pre-contracts and sign for clubs in the summer anyway! The main time for Calderwood is going to be the summer, when he'll get a chance to get rid of the guff he has inherited and get a pre-season to work with HIS team!

As a club, though, we are now at the stage where we have to be giving managers longer that 1 year-18 months. And, sadly, if that means one or two bad seasons, I think we have to accept that. I think we're too short termist and if we have one crap season, knees start to jerk!! Re-building takes time. It will take Calderwood time to get his guys in and get them playing his way. Sacking him so early does no one any favours. After all, whose gonna take the job in the future if they know they're only going to get a year at it!

Does 'one or two bad seasons' incorporate relegation and at least one year in the first division in your medium to long term plan? When we went down in 1998 Mcleish was given the difficult short-term task of keepng us up but was understandably successfully given the opportunity to take us right back up. If we were to go down this time, I reckon Calderwood would rightly or wrongly be blamed and might not be tolerated in an attempt to get promotion.

Greenblood70
10-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Oh dear. I'm stumped then. Callum Davidson would be bad enough. Who would be worse than him?

If it's Gary Teale or Dobie I'll do myself in I think.

marinello59
10-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Interesting take on things.
I would add Stevenson to that list of players as he's fighting for his future and I believe he tries his heart out and can be effective in midfield.
I would have to keep playing Miller cos I think is is still quality and we don't have much of that.
The problem I have with the manager is that nothing at all and I mean nothing...has improved or looks likely to improve and I think it would be wrong to stick with him if it becomes evident that we've made a mistake. I personally think we have and I can't justify watching us sink just because some people would deem it embarrassing to be seen sacking someone so soon after his appointment. I wouldn't mind being proved wrong but something will have to change dramatically right now if not sooner for the better or we are going to be in trouble big time.

I can totally appreciate how people will feel exactly as you do but I feel there is no way we can judge him until he has got his own players in. He inherited an utter shambles. The lack of the usual new manager bounce has left me more than worried but he can still turn this around if he hires and fires wisely. A couple of no nonsense industrial style fitba players would do me for now, I don't care how we play the game, as long as we start to win.

Danderhall Hibs
10-01-2011, 03:48 PM
I can totally appreciate how people will feel exactly as you do but I feel there is no way we can judge him until he has got his own players in. He inherited an utter shambles. The lack of the usual new manager bounce has left me more than worried but he can still turn this around if he hires and fires wisely. A couple of no nonsense industrial style fitba players would do me for now, I don't care how we play the game, as long as we start to win.

:agree: We can't keep sacking manager after manager. It is concerning that he's not getting much (or anything) out of the players he inherited though.

Cropley10
10-01-2011, 04:01 PM
:agree: We can't keep sacking manager after manager. It is concerning that he's not getting much (or anything) out of the players he inherited though.

No we can't. And I hope I'm reading it wrong when I see him on the touchline; he looks depressed.

WindyMiller
10-01-2011, 04:06 PM
You think that Hibs should be in the same market for players as clubs with 30, 40 & 50 % less turnover?

Aberdeen's turnover is much the same as our's.
Other clubs, with lower turnovers, have attracted the sort of players that would do us a turn. Meanwhile our last 3 managers have brought in players who are, quite frankly, worthless.

JimBHibees
10-01-2011, 04:06 PM
If it's Gary Teale or Dobie I'll do myself in I think.

Scary thing is both of them would presently improve what we currently have.

stantonhibby
10-01-2011, 10:28 PM
Norton.

An Ex Scotland International who played for the Hun and an Ex-Scotland international who did not play for the Hun, both of whom are in their 30's is not 'genius'.

Who is the third?

Gavin Rae:agree:

PaulSmith
10-01-2011, 10:36 PM
Great a midfield of Quashie, Dailly and Gavin Rae...perhaps Colin Calderwood can get Colin Hendry out of retirement and do a turn themselves at centre halves.

nortonhibby
10-01-2011, 10:39 PM
The board HAVE to back Calderwood. Someone mentioned earlier on in this thread that there has been a massive turn over of players in recent years. There has also been a large turnover of MANAGERS!

I think what we need now is a wee bit stability. This season is a write-off and we need to now plan for next season and beyond. Calderwood has to be given time. I heard a good point made by a Premiership manager in England who said the January transfer window was useless as nobody comes out of contract then, so all they can really do is sign pre-contracts and sign for clubs in the summer anyway! The main time for Calderwood is going to be the summer, when he'll get a chance to get rid of the guff he has inherited and get a pre-season to work with HIS team!

As a club, though, we are now at the stage where we have to be giving managers longer that 1 year-18 months. And, sadly, if that means one or two bad seasons, I think we have to accept that. I think we're too short termist and if we have one crap season, knees start to jerk!! Re-building takes time. It will take Calderwood time to get his guys in and get them playing his way. Sacking him so early does no one any favours. After all, whose gonna take the job in the future if they know they're only going to get a year at it!


Colin needs time and our support, we won 3-0 at Ibrox there is a team off winners in there when was the last time that anyone beat Rangers At Ibrox 3-0 ?

nortonhibby
10-01-2011, 10:42 PM
I can totally appreciate how people will feel exactly as you do but I feel there is no way we can judge him until he has got his own players in. He inherited an utter shambles. The lack of the usual new manager bounce has left me more than worried but he can still turn this around if he hires and fires wisely. A couple of no nonsense industrial style fitba players would do me for now, I don't care how we play the game, as long as we start to win.


very good post we need to be patient

Andy74
10-01-2011, 11:13 PM
Yes I suppose the Board have backed the manager in signing players but look at the market that they are being asked to shop in.

Same market that got us Riordan, bamba, sproule, boozy, murphy, jones, shiels, zemmama, benji, etc

It's all about how it's spent. The board are doing their part.

Andy74
10-01-2011, 11:15 PM
I can totally appreciate how people will feel exactly as you do but I feel there is no way we can judge him until he has got his own players in. He inherited an utter shambles. The lack of the usual new manager bounce has left me more than worried but he can still turn this around if he hires and fires wisely. A couple of no nonsense industrial style fitba players would do me for now, I don't care how we play the game, as long as we start to win.

We did seem to care last year about 'how' we won. Why will that change?

BEEJ
10-01-2011, 11:58 PM
We did seem to care last year about 'how' we won. Why will that change?
Because the circumstances this season are now very, very different.

steakbake
11-01-2011, 01:41 AM
No we can't. And I hope I'm reading it wrong when I see him on the touchline; he looks depressed.

When he looks at the fans, I'm sure he thinks the same things.

Give the man time. And give him a break. There was a thread earlier on about his choice of words, such as neglecting to use "we" instead of Hibernian... what????

I read him as a very serious man. He doesn't appear to enjoy the media side of things that much and perhaps he doesn't have the same bluff and bull***** that we're used to hearing until recently. He also doesn't look like the kind of boss who ganders around on the touchline like a tit, bantering with the fans and calling his players useless.

He's got a huge job to turn it around and he needs time and backing from fans and board alike to achieve that.

The Falcon
11-01-2011, 09:08 AM
No we can't. And I hope I'm reading it wrong when I see him on the touchline; he looks depressed.

I would think he probably looks as depressed as the rest of us.

It may also be that this current squad are operating at their peek and the reason he's not getting much out of them is there's nothing to get.

The Falcon
11-01-2011, 09:12 AM
Same market that got us Riordan, bamba, sproule, boozy, murphy, jones, shiels, zemmama, benji, etc

It's all about how it's spent. The board are doing their part.

Totally agree. It was Mowbray who said we have to hunt around for the diamonds others have missed. We cant sign the finished article but we can identify "probables" and polish them up a bit. Some will polish and some are, well, just dull.

Cropley10
11-01-2011, 09:13 AM
When he looks at the fans, I'm sure he thinks the same things.

Give the man time. And give him a break. There was a thread earlier on about his choice of words, such as neglecting to use "we" instead of Hibernian... what????

I read him as a very serious man. He doesn't appear to enjoy the media side of things that much and perhaps he doesn't have the same bluff and bull***** that we're used to hearing until recently. He also doesn't look like the kind of boss who ganders around on the touchline like a tit, bantering with the fans and calling his players useless.

He's got a huge job to turn it around and he needs time and backing from fans and board alike to achieve that.

:agree: - did you see the full quote btw - Used both 'Hibernian' and 'we', an utter non-story.

Toaods
12-01-2011, 12:54 AM
CC toughens us up in the transfer window and we go on to lift the Scottish Cup.

ER would be bursting at the seams every week and Hearts would be as well closing down.


...just a thought, night night all... :greengrin

Iain G
12-01-2011, 12:56 AM
CC toughens us up in the transfer window and we go on to lift the Scottish Cup.

ER would be bursting at the seams every week and Hearts would be as well closing down.


...just a thought, night night all... :greengrin

You been eating some of them Mushrooms you picked in the woods again? :wink:

iwasthere1972
12-01-2011, 01:00 AM
CC toughens us up in the transfer window and we go on to lift the Scottish Cup.

ER would be bursting at the seams every week and Hearts would be as well closing down.


...just a thought, night night all... :greengrin

What do you mean night night. You're already dreaming.

Remember and don't fall out your bed and spill your bed pan while dreaming of walking down the Hampden stairs with the SC.

:flag: :flag: :aok:

Toaods
12-01-2011, 01:04 AM
I'm not saying we're going to win it, just thinking of what the Yam pusses would be like.

Worse teams than us have won it...:flag:

Removed
12-01-2011, 01:05 AM
I'm not saying we're going to win it, just thinking of what the Yam pusses would be like.

Worse teams than us have won it...:flag:

Sweet dreams Dave :greengrin

:thumbsup:

vahibbie
12-01-2011, 01:27 AM
CC toughens us up in the transfer window and we go on to lift the Scottish Cup.

ER would be bursting at the seams every week and Hearts would be as well closing down.


...just a thought, night night all... :greengrin

No a bad thought:greengrin
With the Yams out and one of the OF out in the next round there's a chance for somebody to step up.......why no us:wink:
The Yams will be OK, they're concentrating on the big push for CL glory:rolleyes:

smurf
12-01-2011, 01:55 AM
Well we've certainly more chance than the Yams of winning it!

7Hero
12-01-2011, 07:18 AM
dave just think of something even more ridiculous..

imagine if our board saw it as an opportunity and actually backed the manager a wee bit with funds, now that would be even more far fetched.

wouldn't be like hibs to miss an opportunity of course, we'll win it by luck and fortune (although i wouldn't bet on it) rather than actually try and do anything about winning it..

Steve-O
12-01-2011, 07:42 AM
Any signings yet? :tumble:

The Falcon
12-01-2011, 08:21 AM
Only on Hibs net could someone turn the only good night we've had in months, if not this year, and rather than let us savour the moment turns it into an anti-board jibe. Beggars belief.

How do you know they're not all running around like blue arsed flies trying to get CC's targets?

And who should they sign (that someone as informed as you could guarantee would come) and how much should we "invest" in these targets? If they follow your advice then it should be a piece of piss? No?

I would rather leave it to the guys who are doing the job.


dave just think of something even more ridiculous..

imagine if our board saw it as an opportunity and actually backed the manager a wee bit with funds, now that would be even more far fetched.

wouldn't be like hibs to miss an opportunity of course, we'll win it by luck and fortune (although i wouldn't bet on it) rather than actually try and do anything about winning it..

Hibbyradge
12-01-2011, 08:23 AM
dave just think of something even more ridiculous..

imagine if our board saw it as an opportunity and actually backed the manager a wee bit with funds, now that would be even more far fetched.

wouldn't be like hibs to miss an opportunity of course, we'll win it by luck and fortune (although i wouldn't bet on it) rather than actually try and do anything about winning it..

Have the board ever failed to back their manager?

Steve-O
12-01-2011, 08:43 AM
Have the board ever failed to back their manager?

Ask John Collins?

Kaiser1962
12-01-2011, 09:04 AM
Ask John Collins?

I have, often :wink:

Hibbyradge
12-01-2011, 09:08 AM
Ask John Collins?

How much more money would you have given JC after he signed Alan O'Brien, Makalamby etc etc?

Who signed Filip Morais, by the way? :dunno:

Peevemor
12-01-2011, 09:10 AM
Ask John Collins?

... who wasted loads of cash.

Kaiser1962
12-01-2011, 09:13 AM
How much more money would you have given JC after he signed Alan O'Brien, Makalamby etc etc?

Who signed Filip Morais, by the way? :dunno:

I think Blind Summit is alluding to, and its no secret, Naismith in particular.

I would ask even if we had matched Rangers, and in bids as opposed to terms cos it never got there and was never really likely to, would it, with the benefit of hindsight, have been a "good" bit of business for Hibs?

I would suggest, given Naismith's injury record, not. I would go further to say that had we sunk over a quarter of our annual turnover into signing him, and then he spends two years in the treatment room, it would have jeopardised the future of the club.

Hibbyradge
12-01-2011, 09:18 AM
I think Blind Summit is alluding to, and its no secret, Naismith in particular.

I would ask even if we had matched Rangers, and in bids as opposed to terms cos it never got there and was never really likely to, would it, with the benefit of hindsight, have been a "good" bit of business for Hibs?

I would suggest, given Naismith's injury record, not. I would go further to say that had we sunk over a quarter of our annual turnover into signing him, and then he spends two years in the treatment room, it would have jeopardised the future of the club.

Naismith went for £2m, iirc.

We bid £1m.

This is the first time I've realised that people seriously think that we could have bettered Rangers' bid and their personal terms.

Did JC leave because of this? Maybe he should have funded Niasmith from his own personal fortune and pocketed the profit from the future sale. :rolleyes:

Kaiser1962
12-01-2011, 09:31 AM
I wasnt saying we should have, on the contrary, and if thats how it reads then I am glad to correct it.

Naismith would not have come to us even if we had bid £2m was the point I was trying to make. The fact that we did bid over £1m, for Hibs a first, I would regard as the board "supporting" the manager.

They didnt get him but, as I said, his heart was set on a treatment room elsewhere.


Naismith went for £2m, iirc.

We bid £1m.

This is the first time I've realised that people seriously think that we could have bettered Rangers' bid and their personal terms.

Did JC leave because of this? Maybe he should have funded Niasmith from his own personal fortune and pocketed the profit from the future sale. :rolleyes:

Hibbyradge
12-01-2011, 09:47 AM
I wasnt saying we should have, on the contrary, and if thats how it reads then I am glad to correct it.

Naismith would not have come to us even if we had bid £2m was the point I was trying to make. The fact that we did bid over £1m, for Hibs a first, I would regard as the board "supporting" the manager.

They didnt get him but, as I said, his heart was set on a treatment room elsewhere.

I understood your post and I agree with your comments.

I was just surprised that was the reason Collins gave for leaving and more aghast that folk actually support him for this.

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Only on Hibs net could someone turn the only good night we've had in months, if not this year, and rather than let us savour the moment turns it into an anti-board jibe. Beggars belief.

How do you know they're not all running around like blue arsed flies trying to get CC's targets?

And who should they sign (that someone as informed as you could guarantee would come) and how much should we "invest" in these targets? If they follow your advice then it should be a piece of piss? No?

I would rather leave it to the guys who are doing the job.

Ah the old - "they're doing all they can, who would you appoint, we can't spend more money than we have argument."

I'm not paid to make these decisions - but I think I'm just as entitled to ask what's going on, exactly? We've taken money in for -arguably our two best players, certainly are two most saleable - and we sit patiently waiting for news.

How do you know they are running around like blue arsed flies? You don't.

Of course if we don't sign anyone, get knocked out by Ayr, get relegated you can just sit back and say well, 'they did all they could, who would you have signed and we can't spend any more money than we have'. :rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 11:45 AM
Ah the old - "they're doing all they can, who would you appoint, we can't spend more money than we have argument."

I'm not paid to make these decisions - but I think I'm just as entitled to ask what's going on, exactly? We've taken money in for -arguably our two best players, certainly are two most saleable - and we sit patiently waiting for news.

How do you know they are running around like blue arsed flies? You don't.

Of course if we don't sign anyone, get knocked out by Ayr, get relegated you can just sit back and say well, 'they did all they could, who would you have signed and we can't spend any more money than we have'. :rolleyes:

Do you think they are doing nothing, and sitting in the boardroom twiddling their fingers waiting for the January window to end?

Cropley10
12-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Do you think they are doing nothing, and sitting in the boardroom twiddling their fingers waiting for the January window to end?

No - and that's not what I said.

I said how did he know they were running around etc. It was you who has the image of them sitting there discussing obstacles and twiddling their fingers:wink:

blackpoolhibs
12-01-2011, 11:57 AM
No - and that's not what I said.

I said how did he know they were running around etc. It was you who has the image of them sitting there discussing obstacles and twiddling their fingers:wink:

:greengrin No but you were insinuating we were not doing much.:wink: CC will be in talks with players and clubs. He will be going around, probably not running, as the window has weeks to go before it slams shut. We almost NEVER hear of any signing before the ink has been applied to the paper, why do folk think it will be any different each window?:confused:

BEEJ
12-01-2011, 01:00 PM
I understood your post and I agree with your comments.

I was just surprised that was the reason Collins gave for leaving and more aghast that folk actually support him for this.
I don't believe it was.

After his departure JC mentioned 'the last straw' as being the refusal of the club to sanction a deal for Hammill. He wanted to bring him in from Southend as a replacement for the outgoing Murphy and the tight salary structure at that time prevented JC from offering the required amount.

No doubt JC brought in some lousy players. I think he overestimated his own abilities to mould a competent squad out of virtually nothing. :greengrin

But where I have some sympathy for him is that the peak of our transfer income in recent years fell during his tenure and arguably some of those funds were down to the stance that he took on player value (e.g. Thompson and Brown).

Yet this counted for nothing when he sought to attract new players to the club as the policy is not to fund any part of the player salary budget out of player transfer fees received.

So at that point the transfer fees received funded the club's new infrastructure and debt reduction while JC was given little leeway to improve the calibre of the player being brought to the club.

I have to say that since then (and until last summer) this situation appeared to have improved and there seemed to be much more flexibility given to negotiate deals to bring in better players.

The Falcon
12-01-2011, 06:42 PM
No - and that's not what I said.

I said how did he know they were running around etc. It was you who has the image of them sitting there discussing obstacles and twiddling their fingers:wink:

The thing is that neither of us know for sure but basic reasoning would suggest that CC is trying to bring in some players.

I would like to think that some effort is being made to improve the team. Fans of other teams, as you stated previously, would like to think otherwise.