Calderwood (merged)

[Mark79]

Can't see him lasting much longer. Either him walking or getting the bullet.

We need new players in asap to stop this.

[H18sry]

Give the guy a chance he is playing with somebody else's cards. :cool2:

[hibsbollah]

But Nishy wasnt even on the pitch:confused:


:greengrin Calderwood gets until the end of the season.

[Andy74]

Give the guya chance he is playing with somebody elses cards. :cool2:

I thought the problems were all with hughes tactics and interviews and stuff? This place changes to suit.

[Mark79]

Give the guy a chance he is playing with somebody else's cards. :cool2:

He has had a fair shuffle though. Seen all the players he has and still can't get a decent team together. Hee haw signings imminent to change it.

[HibsMax]

On one hand we have fans calling for the board to stop changing the manager every 5 minutes, give the team some stability. On the other hand we have fans questioning how long the new manager has after only 5 minutes.

I'm not having a go at anyone but it's obvious that the real answer is not so obvious. People have different opinions.

My opinions are:
1. we need to stick with ONE manager and give him a fair crack at the whip before we send him packing.
2. we need to invest in the team.

There's no point in replacing the manager if we keep the same players.

[Cabbage1875]

I thought the problems were all with hughes tactics and interviews and stuff? This place changes to suit.

No it doesnt, this is Hughes mess that we are seeing unfolding before our eyes.

I feel sorry for Colin and I must say I agree with the OP. He wont be here much longer I dont think.

Why you feel the need to stick up for the man who has put us in this critically bad state is beyond me though.

[Since90+2]

Give the guy a chance he is playing with somebody else's cards. :cool2:

Doesnt seem to be doing Brown anyharm at Aberdeen having somneone else's players.

[MrSmith]

Well, he was here for 10 year the last time before he did the honourable thing and resigned.

[H18sry]

He has had a fair shuffle though. Seen all the players he has and still can't get a decent team together. Hee haw signings imminent to change it.

:confused: how do you know that? are you privvy to some inside info?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Give the guy a chance he is playing with somebody else's cards. :cool2:

That group of players finished 4th last season and at one point we were dreaming of finishing 2nd!

[borstalboy]

I thought the problems were all with hughes tactics and interviews and stuff? This place changes to suit.

Clearly we've found out it's the players! Hughes team, Colin can only try different things, I hope he can bring in a few solid signings

[H18sry]

That group of players finished 4th last season and at one point we were dreaming of finishing 2nd!

After a lucky run of games pre Christmas, we were woeful after Christmas tho :agree:

[Mark79]

:confused: how do you know that? are you privvy to some inside info?

No but all I hear him saying is how hard it is to make signings yet we sell someone very easily.

[Dirkster23]

I thought the problems were all with hughes tactics and interviews and stuff? This place changes to suit.

I'm not sure anyone suggested Yogi's interviews contributed to us being crap :greengrin

His tactics weren't great but by far the biggest problem was the squad he assembled. I think it's fair to say we can't judge CC properly until he can move on some of this dross and bring in his own players.

[Delboy4]

Better managers have been given the sack this week..! Keane & Hogson...

After today, Hibs will have to think very hard where CC is taking us as a club.

If we go down, we lose a shed load of money so why not pay him off and get a bigger name in to claw us out of this s*ite.
You just need to look at Aberdeen, they have spent money they don't really have by getting Brown & Knox in who probably didn't come cheap - they are now scoring goals again!

A big question also is what type of player will sign for us playing the way we are?

Our board are at fault and have to get it right the next time, if not, we are going to be as bad as we were back in the 80's.

It is not very good to be a Hibby at the moment - Saturday nights are pretty ****** at the moment.

Rant over...
:furious:

[Danderhall Hibs]

After a lucky run of games pre Christmas, we were woeful after Christmas tho :agree:

Lucky when you win, pish when you lose?! It wasn't after Christmas BTW that's a myth - it was mid-February.

[Golden Bear]

The common factor is the really *iss poor playing squad - the buck stops with them.

We've not got one player whom I would consider to be a LEADER. They're all *loody shrinking violets none more so than our so called experienced players.

[clerriehibs]

He has had a fair shuffle though. Seen all the players he has and still can't get a decent team together. Hee haw signings imminent to change it.


Hibs; the team with supporters who want a manager out after a dozen games or so.

Nothing less than instant success is good enough.

[H18sry]

Lucky when you win, pish when you lose?! It wasn't after Christmas BTW that's a myth - it was mid-February.

Is that not after Christmas :greengrin

[PaulSmith]

Must now have the worst record ever, is that 2 wins since he was appointed by the couple of 'non football guys' Petrie and Lindsey.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is that not after Christmas :greengrin

Sometimes. Other times it's 9 1/2 months before Christmas. :greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

Hibs; the team with supporters who want a manager out after a dozen games or so.

Nothing less than instant success is good enough.

Instant success? I'll be happy if manage so stay in the league this season.

[sesoim]

Calderwood will go in March if we are bottom. The other (better) Calderwood will arrive shortly after and save us from relegation.

[sesoim]

On one hand we have fans calling for the board to stop changing the manager every 5 minutes, give the team some stability. On the other hand we have fans questioning how long the new manager has after only 5 minutes.

I'm not having a go at anyone but it's obvious that the real answer is not so obvious. People have different opinions.

My opinions are:
1. we need to stick with ONE manager and give him a fair crack at the whip before we send him packing.
2. we need to invest in the team.

There's no point in replacing the manager if we keep the same players.


But what if we have apponted the wrong guy again? Petrie is really the guy to blame for appointing him. He failed to do the research and ignored other, better options.

Any fan with half a brain knew Calderwood wasn't successful or popular in England, plus he cost a lot more money to employ than many decent candidates in Scotland/currently unemployed. I was shocked when we appointed him and I'm not surprised this run has gotten worse.

Petrie has failed abysmally yet again in the most important role he ha to fulfill - employing decent managers.

[hibiedude]

Doesnt seem to be doing Brown anyharm at Aberdeen having somneone else's players.

The Dons were in a worse postion than us a few weeks back but Pa Brown has turned things around quickly for Aberdeen.

As for our Manager he has to be given longer to get his own players in and that will take time.

[nortonhibby]

Hibs; the team with supporters who want a manager out after a dozen games or so.

Nothing less than instant success is good enough.

We need to take a step back and calm down, we are still in the cup, there are loads off games left in the SPL And Hamilton and St Mirren will be the ones fighting relegation.

CC Got a bad hand yes, but after 12 games come on the man has not had a chance, a couple off wins like what Aberdeen have done will make all the difference.

There will be signings in January and lets hope CC Has good conections down South and will bring in 3 or 4 off his own players to turn it round.

He needs time.

[Jim44]

Hibs; the team with supporters who want a manager out after a dozen games or so.

Nothing less than instant success is good enough.

Far from it. I think most of us would have settled for instant mediocrity if it meant survival in the SPL. Mediocrity seems to be beyond our team these days.

[GreenPJ]

The Dons were in a worse postion than us a few weeks back but Pa Brown has turned things around quickly for Aberdeen.

As for our Manager he has to be given longer to get his own players in and that will take time.

The Dons had a good crop of youngsters who needed to be developed and its plain how the players have responded they did not want McGhee there therefore easier for Brown to make an impact.

We have guys who are there to pick up a salary and nothing else, they don't know what personal pride is never mind what the clubs means to the fans. The quicker we get rid of 50% of this lot the better. Then we can judge Calderwood.

[Mark79]

Far from it. I think most of us would have settled for instant mediocrity if it meant survival in the SPL. Mediocrity seems to be beyond our team these days.

Totally agree. Don't expect us to be world beaters by now but some form of improvement surely.

[Haymaker]

But what if we have apponted the wrong guy again? Petrie is really the guy to blame for appointing him. He failed to do the research and ignored other, better options.

Any fan with half a brain knew Calderwood wasn't successful or popular in England, plus he cost a lot more money to employ than many decent candidates in Scotland/currently unemployed. I was shocked when we appointed him and I'm not surprised this run has gotten worse.

Petrie has failed abysmally yet again in the most important role he ha to fulfill - employing decent managers.


Did he not get two or three promotions? I am pretty sure that is successful.

[Hank Schrader]

My opinions are:
1. we need to stick with ONE manager and give him a fair crack at the whip before we send him packing.
2. we need to invest in the team.

There's no point in replacing the manager if we keep the same players.

:agree:

[HibsMax]

But what if we have apponted the wrong guy again?
That's a fair point. If we keep appointing new managers who cannot get the job done then no amount of time is going to be long enough. But how can we say if he is good enough based upon what we've seen so far? He hasn't even been given a chance to sign any players yet as far as I can see.

It's a tough situation for sure. I don't know WHO the answer is but whomever it is, they will need time.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

Calderwood will go in March if we are bottom. The other (better) Calderwood will arrive shortly after and save us from relegation.

The new Williamson ?

[EasterRoad4Ever]

That's a fair point. If we keep appointing new managers who cannot get the job done then no amount of time is going to be long enough. But how can we say if he is good enough based upon what we've seen so far? He hasn't even been given a chance to sign any players yet as far as I can see.

It's a tough situation for sure. I don't know WHO the answer is but whomever it is, they will need time.

If you were CC at this point, you would be BUSTING Petrie's door down DEMANDING money to address the OBVIOUS weaknesses everyone can see at Hibs. If CC isn;t doing this, then Petrie has YET AGAIN appointed his mini-me loser of a manager who doesn't set his sights nearly high enough. I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall when Petrie is interviewing managers !

[loanheadhibby]

No it doesnt, this is Hughes mess that we are seeing unfolding before our eyes.

I feel sorry for Colin and I must say I agree with the OP. He wont be here much longer I dont think.

Why you feel the need to stick up for the man who has put us in this critically bad state is beyond me though.

How can you feel sorry for blunderwood? He has had enough time to see the players are not up to it but he has not added 1 player to the squad? Is he waiting until 31st jan by which time we will be out the cup and bottom of the league?

[4 Front Teeth]

He has to go

[archiebald]

Once they cross that line they are on there own,ie Millar cant even pass to his own players Riordan dosnt move unless ball is put to his feet-never beats a player,whole team has problem.Colin Calderwood is going knoware

[lucky]

The clock is clearly ticking. I'm very disappointrd that his employment has not seen an improvement in the team. Also can't understand why there has been no signings so far.

[Cabbage1875]

How can you feel sorry for blunderwood? He has had enough time to see the players are not up to it but he has not added 1 player to the squad? Is he waiting until 31st jan by which time we will be out the cup and bottom of the league?

I do accept that there should have been more of an impact so far, definitely, but he is largely having to deploy some of the most unmotivated and technically poor players in green jerseys I have ever had the displeasure of watching on a weekly basis.

That said, he should be doing better and I would hope some players are lined up very soon. The evidence this will happen? Just blind hope and prayers.

[Devine]

How can you feel sorry for blunderwood? He has had enough time to see the players are not up to it but he has not added 1 player to the squad? Is he waiting until 31st jan by which time we will be out the cup and bottom of the league?

Jeezus!! I half agree that Calderwood could have done a bit more to steady the ship although he is one of the LAST people to blame for this debacle.

Unless you pay over the odds its difficult to get anybody in in January we are 10 days in ffs! I want to see new blood in that squad as much as anyone but to blame calderwood for that is utter nonsense. He has literally nothing to work with as the squad left by Hughes is an absolute joke and hamstrung by the fact we have a lot of pash poor players on the books that we cant get rid of and a lack of support from Petrie and co.

[loanheadhibby]

I do accept that there should have been more of an impact so far, definitely, but he is largely having to deploy some of the most unmotivated and technically poor players in green jerseys I have ever had the displeasure of watching on a weekly basis.

That said, he should be doing better and I would hope some players are lined up very soon. The evidence this will happen? Just blind hope and prayers.

I agree the players are inept but surely he did some research about these players before he took the job? The very same players, by and large, who got Mixu and Yogi shown the door and in time will get him the sack.

With his knowledge and contacts in England and he cannot improve the calibre of player. Seriously!!!!

Colin - If you are reading get shot of the lot of them before you get sacked.

[loanheadhibby]

Jeezus!! I half agree that Calderwood could have done a bit more to steady the ship although he is one of the LAST people to blame for this debacle.

Unless you pay over the odds its difficult to get anybody in in January we are 10 days in ffs! I want to see new blood in that squad as much as anyone but to blame calderwood for that is utter nonsense. He has literally nothing to work with as the squad left by Hughes is an absolute joke and hamstrung by the fact we have a lot of pash poor players on the books that we cant get rid of and a lack of support from Petrie and co.

The whole club reeks of pash. How can Calderwood ever be his own man when he is dictated to by our club who he appoints as ass manager? He did not even know Adams ffs. If I was taking a job like Hibs I want MY choice of number 2 not petries.

[scoopyboy]

Totally agree. Don't expect us to be world beaters by now but some form of improvement surely.

He inherited a lot of poor players. He cannot be expected to make a winning team out of that lot.

Judge him once he gets his own players in.

FFS he is a manager not Jesus Christ or Paul Daniels.

[HFC_0762]

The whole club reeks of pash. How can Calderwood ever be his own man when he is dictated to by our club who he appoints as ass manager? He did not even know Adams ffs. If I was taking a job like Hibs I want MY choice of number 2 not petries.
petrie keeps employing these guys and they keep failing , who really is to blame ? PETRIE but people dont see past him , fancy stands dont win you points , getting good players and appointing good managers do

[Davy Mac]

On one hand we have fans calling for the board to stop changing the manager every 5 minutes, give the team some stability. On the other hand we have fans questioning how long the new manager has after only 5 minutes.

I'm not having a go at anyone but it's obvious that the real answer is not so obvious. People have different opinions.

My opinions are:
1. we need to stick with ONE manager and give him a fair crack at the whip before we send him packing.
2. we need to invest in the team.

There's no point in replacing the manager if we keep the same players.

Wage structure is one thing but investment is an other.

I'm suprised at petrie, we will always be a selling club and I understand that so why not invest in quality youngsters (e.g. Griffiths etc) knowing we can probably punt when the time is right?

He doesn't seem to want to invest in a couple of old heads which also seems strange to me because any fitba brained person would understand this.

So, if we don't buy up and coming youngsters to punt on for a profit and we don't buy a couple of experienced pros to steady the ship we're left with the bit in the middle - mediocrity.

What is the strategy? The silence and body language is deafening.........

Thanks for the steady eddy infrastructure management RP and co, you've really giving us something to be proud of but please invest in the talented youngsters (IMO) and at least give us something to get excited about - look at the laddie Templeton...jeezo - what was the signing on fee?

[Devine]

He inherited a lot of poor players. He cannot be expected to make a winning team out of that lot.

Judge him once he gets his own players in.

FFS he is a manager not Jesus Christ or Paul Daniels.

Got to agree with that the monkeys he has been left with are rank rotten and their attitude and mentality matches their ability. Yogi and Petrie are the ones to blame for this fiasco not Calderwood.

It would take a miracle worker to get that lot winning

[Davy Mac]

If you were CC at this point, you would be BUSTING Petrie's door down DEMANDING money to address the OBVIOUS weaknesses everyone can see at Hibs. If CC isn;t doing this, then Petrie has YET AGAIN appointed his mini-me loser of a manager who doesn't set his sights nearly high enough. I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall when Petrie is interviewing managers !

Spot on.

I do think RP must over egg it at interviews, there does seem to be a pattern developing.

Nonsense at the moment, it really is.

[snooky]

The clock is clearly ticking. I'm very disappointrd that his employment has not seen an improvement in the team. Also can't understand why there has been no signings so far.

My thoughts exactly. This transfer window is our one shot to change things.

Like a drowning man coming to the surface and not taking in air - that's us.

[Devine]

Wage structure is one thing but investment is an other.

I'm suprised at petrie, we will always be a selling club and I understand that so why not invest in quality youngsters (e.g. Griffiths etc) knowing we can probably punt when the time is right?

He doesn't seem to want to invest in a couple of old heads which also seems strange to me because any fitba brained person would understand this.

So, if we don't buy up and coming youngsters to punt on for a profit and we don't buy a couple of experienced pros to steady the ship we're left with the bit in the middle - mediocrity.

What is the strategy? The silence and body language is deafening.........

Thanks for the steady eddy infrastructure management RP and co, you've really giving us something to be proud of but please invest in the talented youngsters (IMO) and at least give us something to get excited about - look at the laddie Templeton...jeezo - what was the signing on fee?

The strategy for Hibs as you quite rightly point out should be to snap up young players at a decent price and sell on for a profit. We dont buy any up and coming players and rely on a large element of luck in bringing through players to sell on. Well that luck has run out and the poor strategy and business plan is being laid bare for everyone to see!

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Can't believe how many fans are hiding behind the fact 'it's Hughes team'!! Yeah it is but ffs, that starting 11 today are more than capable of beating ****ing Ayr Utd!! It was actually a good team on paper. The players are a disgrace and are hugely to blame, however, Every team other than Hibs seem to appoint a new manager and the club gets a lift, Calderwood has brought nothing! He should be able to motivate his team to beat Ayr Utd for crying out loud! Look at Aberdeen since Brown took over, he has signed NOBODY, look what Jeffries done when he took over at Hearts, yes, he's signed players now but they immediately started climbing the table lst season when he took over!! It pains me to say it but if Jeffries was to come in tomor and inherit our current squad he would get them climbing the table and I think most honest folk on here would admit that. Calderwood is getting absolutely nothing out of those players, a good manager would at least get something out of them!!

[HibsMax]

Yes let's ... Let's give him a fair crack of the whip..:agree:
Would the fair crack of the whip sto before or after he's cost us millions?:rolleyes:

You're right. Let's keep replacing the manager every few months...

[lucky]

He inherited a lot of poor players. He cannot be expected to make a winning team out of that lot.

Judge him once he gets his own players in.

FFS he is a manager not Jesus Christ or Paul Daniels.

So why have Aberdeen improve so much with pa broon taking over? He has won more games than CC has already?

[HibsMax]

If you were CC at this point, you would be BUSTING Petrie's door down DEMANDING money to address the OBVIOUS weaknesses everyone can see at Hibs. If CC isn;t doing this, then Petrie has YET AGAIN appointed his mini-me loser of a manager who doesn't set his sights nearly high enough. I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall when Petrie is interviewing managers !
That's one of the problems that faces us as fans. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. We don't know what deal was made. RP might have told CC to bide his time and just try to keep us afloat until the summer, then he can buy. He may have been promised money that isn't there. He may.....

We could go on and on but since none of us really knows what is going on in the background all we can do is speculate.

[RickyS]

surprisingly he was given a 4yr contract, not a snowballs chance Rod will get rid.

[Davy Mac]

That's one of the problems that faces us as fans. We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. We don't know what deal was made. RP might have told CC to bide his time and just try to keep us afloat until the summer, then he can buy. He may have been promised money that isn't there. He may.....

We could go on and on but since none of us really knows what is going on in the background all we can do is speculate.

Lack of communication causes unrest IMO, Hibs are world beaters at this I'm afraid.

For me, that's the board biggest weakness.

[muirhousehibby]

The clock is clearly ticking. I'm very disappointrd that his employment has not seen an improvement in the team. Also can't understand why there has been no signings so far.

The answer is in CC interviews. Managers being sacked haven't helped as players who might come on loan are awaiting a new manager to see whats what.

Hibs are not going to buy players either, and the summer is normally when the contracts exspire. i wouldn't be suprised if nobody comes in, in this window.....

Btw the title of this thread. How long has colin got? should be changed to how long before colin walk's.

JC left and i'm giving CC untill end feb and he'll also walk too..

[Del Boy]

usually when a new manager comes in you see an initial improvement from the players, a bit more fight at least with CC we've seen nothing! an OK 2nd half v United at Easter Rd where we fought back from 2 down but other than that we've been worse than under Yogi (something I thought wasnt possible!!!)

Relegation is a definete possibility. Aberdeen have taken off under Brown so we're now relying on Hamilton and St Mirren not hitting any form between now and the end of the season :bitchy:

[HFC_0762]

Can't believe how many fans are hiding behind the fact 'it's Hughes team'!! Yeah it is but ffs, that starting 11 today are more than capable of beating ****ing Ayr Utd!! It was actually a good team on paper. The players are a disgrace and are hugely to blame, however, Every team other than Hibs seem to appoint a new manager and the club gets a lift, Calderwood has brought nothing! He should be able to motivate his team to beat Ayr Utd for crying out loud! Look at Aberdeen since Brown took over, he has signed NOBODY, look what Jeffries done when he took over at Hearts, yes, he's signed players now but they immediately started climbing the table lst season when he took over!! It pains me to say it but if Jeffries was to come in tomor and inherit our current squad he would get them climbing the table and I think most honest folk on here would admit that. Calderwood is getting absolutely nothing out of those players, a good manager would at least get something out of them!! a good manager probably would but who employed calderwood mr petrie

[HibsMax]

There are a lot of people on here saying that CC should be getting more out of the players and that if X, Y or Z came in they would do a better job.

Why are people so determined to protect the players? We've been pish for a long time now. What exactly is CC supposed to do to get the most out of the players? Presumably the same thing as Yogi was supposed to do. And all the failed managers before him.

I don't know what the exact issue is but I feel strongly that is has more to do with the players that keep getting our managers sacked than the managers themselves.

It's either that or Hibs go out of their way to find the absolutely worst person for the job.

[Peevemor]

usually when a new manager comes in you see an initial improvement from the players, a bit more fight at least with CC we've seen nothing!

... Ibrox? 3-0?

[BSEJVT]

Calderwood is a worry.

I fully accept that these are not his players and they are mostly utter dross, but he is months into the job and seems to have no idea what his best 11 or 18 are.

The team changes significantly game by game.

Does he pick it by drawing numbers out a hat?

Guys are in the plans, out the plans or who knows what.

Guys that do okay get dropped, guys that do damn all get picked.

Guys get dropped from squads one week, play the next.

I dont expect miracles but I do expect to see a pattern of selection and play develop.. I dont, do you?

How are we ever going to start improving when the change is constant?

If he doesnt know who is any good and who is utter crap by now and who he can rely on or not we are absolutely goosed.

My worry is the board (I wish we would all stop blaming just Petrie as they have collective responsibility) have realised they have picked another muppet and are withholding funding to force him out the door as they have done with his predecessors.

One thing is for sure, the status quo cant continue.

The current management and current players will get us relegated.

Something has to change.

[hibby67]

I thinks its a bit harsh to blame all this on cc....
He has not had his own players in yet. He has a team of players out of contract that could not give a ****** what happens to hibs as they wont be here to suffer

now you coukd be the best coach in the world but how can you motavate players that dont want to be motavated........so he leaves them out the team but who does he turn to????

We could put some of the young lads in but it could set them back or finish their career before its begun....

What we need is for the board to invest now and not wait for the summer, because the way we are going how are we going to attract in the first divison

[Danderhall Hibs]

... Ibrox? 3-0?

Looks more and more like a fluke every day. I thought that and the Motherwell game was the start of the turnaround.

[HibsMax]

I thinks its a bit harsh to blame all this on cc....
He has not had his own players in yet. He has a team of players out of contract that could not give a ****** what happens to hibs as they wont be here to suffer

now you coukd be the best coach in the world but how can you motavate players that dont want to be motavated........so he leaves them out the team but who does he turn to????

We could put some of the young lads in but it could set them back or finish their career before its begun....

What we need is for the board to invest now and not wait for the summer, because the way we are going how are we going to attract in the first divison
:agree:

[Cabbage1875]

Can't believe how many fans are hiding behind the fact 'it's Hughes team'!! Yeah it is but ffs, that starting 11 today are more than capable of beating ****ing Ayr Utd!! It was actually a good team on paper. The players are a disgrace and are hugely to blame, however, Every team other than Hibs seem to appoint a new manager and the club gets a lift, Calderwood has brought nothing! He should be able to motivate his team to beat Ayr Utd for crying out loud! Look at Aberdeen since Brown took over, he has signed NOBODY, look what Jeffries done when he took over at Hearts, yes, he's signed players now but they immediately started climbing the table lst season when he took over!! It pains me to say it but if Jeffries was to come in tomor and inherit our current squad he would get them climbing the table and I think most honest folk on here would admit that. Calderwood is getting absolutely nothing out of those players, a good manager would at least get something out of them!!

It's a shame that games of football aren't played on paper isnt it.

[Davy Mac]

I think CC is a decent enough Manager and sadly we probably punched above our weight a wee bit getting him but sometimes things don't work out.

Serious question though, like any job there is a 3 month trial period to see and learn about each other and perhaps decide if it's going to work?

Surely a probation period clause is written in the contract?

Not saying he should go but like I said on another thread, communication is dire from the board and it's certainly not very upbeat from CC either......is he happy?

[RickyS]

The answer is in CC interviews. Managers being sacked haven't helped as players who might come on loan are awaiting a new manager to see whats what.

Hibs are not going to buy players either, and the summer is normally when the contracts exspire. i wouldn't be suprised if nobody comes in, in this window.....

Btw the title of this thread. How long has colin got? should be changed to how long before colin walk's.

JC left and i'm giving CC untill end feb and he'll also walk too..

so its safe to assume the players we have targeted were with clubs who ha tve recently lost their manager? how unlucky is that!

[loanheadhibby]

Phew, thought the guy was ill. should have known it would just be another anti hibs post

Aye lets not worry about being in freefall, having a rank group of players and possibly the most ineffectual manager since Blobby.

Lets stick our heads in the sand and it will be OK when we are away to morton in the 1st round of div1/spl2 fixtures next season.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[muirhousehibby]

so its safe to assume the players we have targeted were with clubs who ha tve recently lost their manager? how unlucky is that!

Colin Calderwoods words in a interview not mine. i think newcastle would perhaps have been a club he might have went too though.

I've never really been optimistic of us bring anyone in during this window.

[HibsMax]

and possibly the most ineffectual manager since Blobby.
Why is it the manager's fault and not the player's? What evidence do you have to suggest that ANY other manager would have done a better job with the same resources?

[HibsMax]

If we had a good team, brought in a new manager and results went south then THAT would be an indication that the manager selection was a poor choice.

But what we have is a team that has played crap for months with a new manager who, so far, hasn't been able to turn the team around. It doesn't mean that he was the wrong appointment, it's just further evidence that the players we have are crap.

[Peevemor]

Behave... that has now entered the queue to be given miracle status!!

Yeah, but what did the Romans ever do for us? :greengrin

[chrisski33]

from what i witnessed today there was no sense of urgency from the players and from cc. no fight no drive just naff football! def think its the players but id question whether or not cc is motivating and giving them confidence!

[Davy Mac]

Yeah, but what did the Romans ever do for us? :greengrin

http://www.unrv.com/provinces/hibernia.php

:greengrin

[hibeeleicester]

This is not his fault.


That is all.

[HibsMax]

from what i witnessed today there was no sense of urgency from the players and from cc. no fight no drive just naff football! def think its the players but id question whether or not cc is motivating and giving them confidence!

How do you "give" someone confidence?

We've had managers in the past who have defended the players after terrible games. Now some might say that is giving the players a boost but most people on here just vilified the manager for not having a clue....

[loanheadhibby]

Can't smell the coffe for the putrid rank stench of hibs haters on here,
Read the threads. Hardlya good word to say.

Every manager hired and fired was done for the benefit of Hibs, every player signed was for the benefit of Hibs, all while the infrastructure has been improved massively presenting us with a fantastic future.

yes indeed we are all hibs haters, thats why we are posting on a sat night instead of enjoying our weekend!!! Maybe we are realists who can see the woods for the trees.

This fantastic future will be in 1st division at this rate. And seriously less than 5000 hibs fans turn up to see the team play at home in the cup!

The future is now. Not in 5 year or 10 years.

[HibsMax]

yes indeed we are all hibs haters, thats why we are posting on a sat night instead of enjoying our weekend!!! Maybe we are realists who can see the woods for the trees.

This fantastic future will be in 1st division at this rate. And seriously less than 5000 hibs fans turn up to see the team play at home in the cup!

The future is now. Not in 5 year or 10 years.

Actually, the present is now. 5 or10 years down the road is definitely the future. :wink:

[Franck is God]

Calderwood is a worry.

I fully accept that these are not his players and they are mostly utter dross, but he is months into the job and seems to have no idea what his best 11 or 18 are.

The team changes significantly game by game.

Does he pick it by drawing numbers out a hat?

Guys are in the plans, out the plans or who knows what.

Guys that do okay get dropped, guys that do damn all get picked.

Guys get dropped from squads one week, play the next.

I dont expect miracles but I do expect to see a pattern of selection and play develop.. I dont, do you?

How are we ever going to start improving when the change is constant?

Glad I read your post before I started typing, I said almost everything above to my mate on the way away from the game today.

No consistency of selection or tactics from week to week is starting to really annoy me, I have no idea what he's actually trying to do. Pick a way of playing and just stick to it.

[scoopyboy]

So why have Aberdeen improve so much with pa broon taking over? He has won more games than CC has already?

Improved so much, they have beaten us, Hamilton and East Fife. Champions League here they come.

[chrisski33]

Can't smell the coffe for the putrid rank stench of hibs haters on here,
Read the threads. Hardlya good word to say.

Every manager hired and fired was done for the benefit of Hibs, every player signed was for the benefit of Hibs, all while the infrastructure has been improved massively presenting us with a fantastic future.

hibs haters just cos folk question and worry about where our club is heading? which seems down to the 1st division. an improved infrastuctive means jack sh,t if we are relegated.

[HibsMax]

Glad I read your post before I started typing, I said almost everything above to my mate on the way away from the game today.

No consistency of selection or tactics from week to week is starting to really annoy me, I have no idea what he's actually trying to do. Pick a way of playing and just stick to it.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting the same result. Obviously CC is not that keen on what he is seeing so it makes sense that he would try different things. Everything else that has been tried has, for the most part, resulted in nothing. Why shouldn't he try and mix things up? Maybe things that worked during practice are not working during matches? I don't know but if things are not working then I am glad that he is tinkering with the system

[hibby67]

from what i witnessed today there was no sense of urgency from the players and from cc. No fight no drive just naff football! Def think its the players but id question whether or not cc is motivating and giving them confidence!


what p**s is this they are not a bunch of kids
cc should be motavating his big toe up ther arse

[HibsMax]

hibs haters just cos folk question and worry about where our club is heading? which seems down to the 1st division. an improved infrastuctive means jack sh,t if we are relegated.

Wrong! It might mean nothing for THIS season but if all you're thinking about is this season then I think you are being short-sighted.

I know an improved infrastructure doesn't put points on the board but it's one thing less we need to worry about for the future.

[mcfly]

Can't smell the coffe for the putrid rank stench of hibs haters on here,
Read the threads. Hardlya good word to say.

Every manager hired and fired was done for the benefit of Hibs, every player signed was for the benefit of Hibs, all while the infrastructure has been improved massively presenting us with a fantastic future.

What are you drinking???

get a grip - we are rubbish

our fantastic future is what please tell us???

[HibsMax]

our fantastic future is what please tell us???
We have a training ground, something we don't need to worry about in the future.

We have a nice stadium, something we don't need to worry about in the future.

We don't have the same money concerns that other clubs have.

I think the point is we have the infrastructure in place, now we just need to get the team on the park performing. When that piece of the puzzle falls into place we'll be sitting pretty.

And I am not saying that is just going to happen, it's going to take a lot of hard work.

[mcfly]

Can't smell the coffe for the putrid rank stench of hibs haters on here,
Read the threads. Hardlya good word to say.

Every manager hired and fired was done for the benefit of Hibs, every player signed was for the benefit of Hibs, all while the infrastructure has been improved massively presenting us with a fantastic future.

FWIW - this "hibs hater" as you call us pays £405 each year to hate hibs.

as i pay that money i will voice my opinion as i like

[muirhousehibby]

How do you "give" someone confidence?

We've had managers in the past who have defended the players after terrible games. Now some might say that is giving the players a boost but most people on here just vilified the manager for not having a clue....

spot on m8.

Add to that the fans getting behind there team for once without booing or venting their frustration at the team.

[cocopops1875]

Lucky when you win, pish when you lose?! It wasn't after Christmas BTW that's a myth - it was mid-February.

i do find i disagree with you more than most people on here :greengrin we were gash all of last season stokes goals really pulled us through we were lucky when we were 3rd and we were really lucky to finish 4th

[mcfly]

We have a training ground, something we don't need to worry about in the future.

We have a nice stadium, something we don't need to worry about in the future.

We don't have the same money concerns that other clubs have.

I think the point is we have the infrastructure in place, now we just need to get the team on the park performing. When that piece of the puzzle falls into place we'll be sitting pretty.

And I am not saying that is just going to happen, it's going to take a lot of hard work.


But no more players left to sell

[HibsMax]

But no more players left to sell

and that's fine by me because I would rather Hibs aspire to be more than a selling club.

[Criswell]

We have to give him at least time to bring in his own players. The question is: will he be given adequate funding to make a difference?

[Danderhall Hibs]

We don't have the same money concerns that other clubs have.


We do. We can't spend that much money either.

[midlothianhibby]

Can't believe how many fans are hiding behind the fact 'it's Hughes team'!! Yeah it is but ffs, that starting 11 today are more than capable of beating ****ing Ayr Utd!! It was actually a good team on paper. The players are a disgrace and are hugely to blame, however, Every team other than Hibs seem to appoint a new manager and the club gets a lift, Calderwood has brought nothing! He should be able to motivate his team to beat Ayr Utd for crying out loud! Look at Aberdeen since Brown took over, he has signed NOBODY, look what Jeffries done when he took over at Hearts, yes, he's signed players now but they immediately started climbing the table lst season when he took over!! It pains me to say it but if Jeffries was to come in tomor and inherit our current squad he would get them climbing the table and I think most honest folk on here would admit that. Calderwood is getting absolutely nothing out of those players, a good manager would at least get something out of them!!


Agree with you 100%. Since Calderwood's appointment we have seen no change in -

System
Shape
Tactics
Energy
Commitment
Form

Surely the manager has to accept some of the responsibility otherwise why bother with a manager at all.

I'm not encouraged by what I see and although I think we have good enough individual players to see us through, I fear that our lack of togetherness could cost us in the end.

[nortonhibby]

The clock is clearly ticking. I'm very disappointrd that his employment has not seen an improvement in the team. Also can't understand why there has been no signings so far.


give the man time it is not his team we cant go on changing managers every few months Colin needs a few years at the helm even yogi said that be patient he will bring in new players and turn us round

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

It's a shame that games of football aren't played on paper isnt it.

Knew someone would say that. Correct its not. Point is we could go and find a drunk sleeping on a bench in Leith Links to be our manager and he could get us a 0-0 draw at home to Ayr. What exactly is CC doing!? He certainly doesn't seem to be motivating our players. Its easy to blame the players(dont get me wrong, I think the majority are utterly pathetic) BUT a good manager would get more out of them and that is a fact. Look at Inter, Champs League winners with Jose lst yr, absolute crap this yr with Rafa! Largely the same players, why?

[FitbaFolkKen]

My take on the current squad is -

The majority of the players do not care......because they haven't been offered, or expect to be offered a new deal.

Which i would assume leaves Calderwood a far tougher job than we could possibly imagine.

People saying he should accept responsibility, he did last week when he said that he needed to be better.

Sacked after 12 games and no signings, this place is mental.:hnet:

[NiallGR]

skipped through this thread and been on oand off the net for a long time and not a believer about all this gash of terrible team. This is the same team that everyone was dribbling over in decenmber last year so IMHO we should stop that right now.

Again in my opinion we need a bit fire in our belly, we need to press balls as a team and "hunt in packs"!!! What we see is not good enough and i am not for firing the manager but Sauzee only got 69 days from Petrie and not sure how CC's record stands up but i am sure he must be there or there abouts!

FWIW, i want a Hibs team that plays with a bit of passion, wants to win a game and that press the game in the right location at the right time (which only comes from direction from the management).

I was never behind or excited about the CC appointment and was sure we could have done better to inspire our players, which was what was needed at the time. We need rid now or stick with what we have got and cross our fingers!

GGTTH

[nortonhibby]

My take on the current squad is -

The majority of the players do not care......because they haven't been offered, or expect to be offered a new deal.

Which i would assume leaves Calderwood a far tougher job than we could possibly imagine.

People saying he should accept responsibility, he did last week when he said that he needed to be better.

Sacked after 12 games and no signings, this place is mental.:hnet:


There will be at least 4 new signings in January Colin has idendified these players the funds have been sanctioned

[The Voice Of Reason]

There will be at least 4 new signings in January Colin has idendified these players the funds have been sanctioned

How do you know this ?

Wish he'd hurry up and sign these players cos we are in January now !

[Badge]

There will be at least 4 new signings in January Colin has idendified these players the funds have been sanctioned

If you know as much as you make out, tell us the names of the players.

[nortonhibby]

If you know as much as you make out, tell us the names of the players.
All coming from England please be patient i cant release my source its worth the wait trust in CC

[Betty Boop]

All coming from England please be patient i cant release my source its worth the wait trust in CC

He never asked for your source.

[Gatecrasher]

There are a lot of people on here saying that CC should be getting more out of the players and that if X, Y or Z came in they would do a better job.

Why are people so determined to protect the players? We've been pish for a long time now. What exactly is CC supposed to do to get the most out of the players? Presumably the same thing as Yogi was supposed to do. And all the failed managers before him.

I don't know what the exact issue is but I feel strongly that is has more to do with the players that keep getting our managers sacked than the managers themselves.

It's either that or Hibs go out of their way to find the absolutely worst person for the job.

i think its the players as well, they are the only common factor in the pish that's been produced in the last year. some even further back than that.

IMO leave CC to do his job and sort this out, changing managers all the time isnt going to fix anything. The problems at Hibs appear to be much deeper than that and unless a CC is given time to sort it out it will continue to haunt us during the season

[McIntosh]

All coming from England please be patient i cant release my source its worth the wait trust in CC

Were signing them from small provincial clubs, like.....Hearts. I think you know who they are.

[Removed]

There will be at least 4 new signings in January Colin has idendified these players the funds have been sanctioned

See, I knew it was you Scott :thumbsup:

[FitbaFolkKen]

So Craig Brown's a magician?

It's not a one shoe fits all is it....different clubs different problems

[BSEJVT]

The definition of madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting the same result. Obviously CC is not that keen on what he is seeing so it makes sense that he would try different things. Everything else that has been tried has, for the most part, resulted in nothing. Why shouldn't he try and mix things up? Maybe things that worked during practice are not working during matches? I don't know but if things are not working then I am glad that he is tinkering with the system

Because it is utterly mindless.

Folk come in play get dropped and come back in weeks / months later.

He doesnt seem able to decide upon whether a player has it or not.

There is absolutely no pattern emerging of play and especially of selection.

He isnt just changing 1 or 2 a game it is wholesale changes he is regularly making.

If I could see a pattern emerging I would have no problem with him tinkering at the edges with it.

I cant imagine the players know if they are coming or going.

IMO they are all too scared to try anything as they dont see their places in the team as secure and are trying to do just the simple things to keep their place, over thinking them and messing it up.

It needs to be immediate and instinctive, how can it be if you dont if the guy outside you wants it long short or not at all as that guy changes week by week?

There's something far wrong if he hasnt identified his best fully fit team and squad by now.

You say you are glad he is changing it as it isnt working?

How about he gave it a chance to settle for a couple of weeks and then tried again if that didnt work?

We must have had very nearly every other permutation possible?

Watching Hibs team sheet is like waiting for the lottery numbers, every ones a surprise!

It looks like a guy without a clue rolling the dice and hoping his numbers come up.

[7Hero]

craig brown, won first 2 and scores 6 in the cup...

hibs sign sauzee, mowbray, collins, mixu, hughes calderwood.

none classed as experienced.

why not give brown the job, too expensive ? bad call from hibs but then we always get inexperienced managers. The cheap options of course..


Blame the board ??

cheap managers, cheap players, but we have a nice stadium and an outside training facility with a barn for 5 a sides.

doesn't seem right to me..

[paul_hfc3]

Doesnt seem to be doing Brown anyharm at Aberdeen having somneone else's players.

Brillant Point

However this is not the managers fault. Can't just point and blame Calderwood. Its the bottle merchant players. Not only hughes's fault but also Mixu's. Theres a reason why 15/16 players are at the end of their contracts at the end of the season because they are pish. Time is needed not sackings

[SMAXXA]

This is not his fault.


That is all.This entirely his fault not for his personal but the way we play and his constant chopping and changing of a under par team this for the first time I'm seriously thinking he will lose the support of the fans who I think have given him the benefit of the doubt so far

[Gala Foxes]

We are all looking for Adams and Calderwood to bring a bit of enthusiasm, spark and new ideas to Hibs - can't see much evidence of any to date

[Don Giovanni]

This is not his fault.


That is all.

Correct. Calderwood is not to blame for the situation he finds himself in (there are plenty of other parties to pin our woes on).

However, he is guilty of having made no measurable impact since arriving, and that is a major disappointment.

[Matty_Jack04]

This entirely his fault not for his personal but the way we play and his constant chopping and changing of a under par team this for the first time I'm seriously thinking he will lose the support of the fans who I think have given him the benefit of the doubt so far

Laughable! If he was keeping the same team every week you'd be on his case, he's getting duffy and zemmama back in the squad should he not play them? By the guys own admission he knows little about the scottish game or the players he has to see who he wants to keep, if any so he has to try them all!!
This squad of players have already made one manager look useless and tacticly inept, ever thought there just not a bunch of brainless overpaid huddies that are not fit to call themselves profesionals! If calderwood loses his job before he has had time to bring in his own staff then i wont be returning to easter road, players get away with far too much these days whilst the manager carrys the can.

[marleyhib]

Calderwood must have sold himself to the board with some sort of plan and vision for Hibs to get the job, and they must have bought into it.

Calderwood and the board knew at the time that the new manager was inheriting a squad that were in a downward spiral and that something had to change. They surely had the chat that, what if things haven't improved by January? Calderwood must have said I'll do this, I have these contacts to bring in players and these ideas to turn it around.

As crap as we have been he has not had a chance to change personnel until now.

If we don't bring in anyone in January he is either

1. not being backed by the board
2. doesn't have any ideas
3. can't get the players he wants (which may mean we can't afford them and is a fu**up on both sides)

I am no expert but I thought Calderwood was a risky appointment, the situation at the time cried out for an experienced manager to steady the ship (Craig Brown for example).

However, I am willing to give Calderwood a chance and judge him when he has a chance to build his team.

If there are no signings in this transfer window there has to be big questions asked and I would like to know why not.

Overall I am worried about Hibs in a way I haven't been since I watched us under Duffy, back then we got McLeish in and spent a lot of money to turn us around and got into a lot of debt as a result when the Sky deal collapsed.

I go to Easter Road to be entertained, I hate it when we lose but I despair when we are clueless on the park. I speak to a lot of fellow Hibbies at the moment who are simply not going as the football on offer is too bad, this ranges from kids to pensioners, I honestly don't think the cost is a huge factor. I remember times under Duffy when I couldn't give my season ticket away if I was on holiday, we were that bad. We are that bad again, something major has to change.

I fear that the board keep making the wrong managerial appointments and getting the balance wrong between running a business and running a football team for the fans.

We fans are the club, I for one demand better. If the current board cannot deliver it then it's time for a change.

[Matty_Jack04]

We are all looking for Adams and Calderwood to bring a bit of enthusiasm, spark and new ideas to Hibs - can't see much evidence of any to date

You can play a monkey a tune but theres nothing you can do if it wont dance.

[Greenheart]

This guy has no idea about football management, makes subsitutions to late in a game and does not change the game plan when it can be seen by everyone in the stands that the opposition have us taped. No imagination in no way motivational to either the fans and obviously not the players time Calderwood Gets TF and quickly:taxi

[HFC 0-7]

On one hand we have fans calling for the board to stop changing the manager every 5 minutes, give the team some stability. On the other hand we have fans questioning how long the new manager has after only 5 minutes.

I'm not having a go at anyone but it's obvious that the real answer is not so obvious. People have different opinions.

My opinions are:
1. we need to stick with ONE manager and give him a fair crack at the whip before we send him packing.
2. we need to invest in the team.

There's no point in replacing the manager if we keep the same players.

I agree that we should give a manager a fair crack at the whip, but, in this 12 team league the chances of going down are just to high! Thats why there is a constant conveyer belt of managers, the risk of relegation is just to high. At what point do you say that a manager isnt the correct person for the job?

In the SPL managers need to be instant success at a club like Hibs, there is no time for 'building'. Just look at Craig Brown, instant success!

[scotty1875]

Calderwood must have sold himself to the board with some sort of plan and vision for Hibs to get the job, and they must have bought into it.

Calderwood and the board knew at the time that the new manager was inheriting a squad that were in a downward spiral and that something had to change. They surely had the chat that, what if things haven't improved by January? Calderwood must have said I'll do this, I have these contacts to bring in players and these ideas to turn it around.

As crap as we have been he has not had a chance to change personnel until now.

If we don't bring in anyone in January he is either

1. not being backed by the board
2. doesn't have any ideas
3. can't get the players he wants (which may mean we can't afford them and is a fu**up on both sides)

I am no expert but I thought Calderwood was a risky appointment, the situation at the time cried out for an experienced manager to steady the ship (Craig Brown for example).

However, I am willing to give Calderwood a chance and judge him when he has a chance to build his team.

If there are no signings in this transfer window there has to be big questions asked and I would like to know why not.

Overall I am worried about Hibs in a way I haven't been since I watched us under Duffy, back then we got McLeish in and spent a lot of money to turn us around and got into a lot of debt as a result when the Sky deal collapsed.

I go to Easter Road to be entertained, I hate it when we lose but I despair when we are clueless on the park. I speak to a lot of fellow Hibbies at the moment who are simply not going as the football on offer is too bad, this ranges from kids to pensioners, I honestly don't think the cost is a huge factor. I remember times under Duffy when I couldn't give my season ticket away if I was on holiday, we were that bad. We are that bad again, something major has to change.

I fear that the board keep making the wrong managerial appointments and getting the balance wrong between running a business and running a football team for the fans.

We fans are the club, I for one demand better. If the current board cannot deliver it then it's time for a change.

10/10 :agree:

[hibsdaft]

i never liked this appointment, but its far too soon to give him grief.

that said, i'm not going to games now so easy for me to say that i suppose.

[truehibernian]

We have three weeks of the window left so let's see what that brings.

To be calling for the head of CC is just ludicrous in my opinion. The man has just come into Scottish football, assisted by a young, hungry coach, which will only benefit Hibernian in the long run.

The players are the one's who are letting the coaching staff and the fans down. Once they run over the white line you are pretty limited with what you can do as a coach. Yes you can make substitutions, and I thought today he made the right ones. Murray had picked up an injury so we needed a holding player. He put on DW because let's face it wee Zemmama was having a howler and was way off the pace. And he brought on Trakys to try and mix it up when we were all too often trying to walk it through bodies.

CC is lumbered, and I mean lumbered, with a squad of players already in a losing mindset thanks to John Hughes. They have/had experienced losing more than winning, and conceding goals was an art form at times. Even Mourinho could not change things around with this group in a matter of weeks.

He needs time, support from the fans, and backing from the board. That is key. If he gets 3 players in, ones which can make an immediate impact, we will see how we fare. I have every faith he will turn the club around into a very professional one, but he needs to get rid of many a poor footballer first, and get young, fresh, hungry footballers in, that want to appreciate and bleed for the cause.

The drinking and gambling culture has to stop too. It is abundantly clear to my mind that it is having an effect on the team and the squad as a whole. There is no unity. Just disharmony. No leadership and no players that instil fear and complete respect. Just eleven players, most soon to be out-of-contract, running about with no real passion or desire and no burning need to win games at all costs.

This is what CC has to get across to the players and I am sure he will.......but it will be by the skin of our teeth this season methinks. Next season is where the real work starts and some are going to get a real shock to their system......some may even have to get proper jobs :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

The clock is clearly ticking. I'm very disappointrd that his employment has not seen an improvement in the team. Also can't understand why there has been no signings so far.

:agree:


He inherited a lot of poor players. He cannot be expected to make a winning team out of that lot.

Judge him once he gets his own players in.

FFS he is a manager not Jesus Christ or Paul Daniels.

:agree:


The whole club reeks of pash. How can Calderwood ever be his own man when he is dictated to by our club who he appoints as ass manager? He did not even know Adams ffs. If I was taking a job like Hibs I want MY choice of number 2 not petries.


So why have Aberdeen improve so much with pa broon taking over? He has won more games than CC has already?

Maybe your answer lies in the post by loanhead above - and has Paw Broon signed anyone for Aberdeen?

[ionahibby]

I actually feel sorry for cc he must be sh**ing himself over the fact that the bunch of wasters on the park are going to lose him his job the guy needs our support but have a strange feeling he may actually decide himself enough is enough and quit and i would'nt blame him

[new malkyhib]

I think CC is a decent enough Manager and sadly we probably punched above our weight a wee bit getting him but sometimes things don't work out.

Serious question though, like any job there is a 3 month trial period to see and learn about each other and perhaps decide if it's going to work?

Surely a probation period clause is written in the contract?

Not saying he should go but like I said on another thread, communication is dire from the board and it's certainly not very upbeat from CC either......is he happy?

How do you work out we "punched above our weight getting him" Davy?

As far as i'm aware we only got him after Newcastle dropped their compensation demands. They then proceeded to sack their main manager 2 weeks later - so all in the timing was quite a nice fit for them.

Also, he applied for the job last year, and was overlooked in favour of Hughes - so how come he's top of the list this time round?

Then to top it off, he gets an assistant who was appointed (not by himself) but by guess who?

And as for communication, in his interviews, he sounds like a cross between Alex Miller and Williamson - so again, what precisely attractred him to the Board at the interview stage this time round?

Would be interested to hear Sir Rodney's take on this, but as usual when the brown stuff hits the fan at ER he's strangely reticent, is Rod, as is his underlings.

[reservoir hibee]

Calderwood will go in March if we are bottom. The other (better) Calderwood will arrive shortly after and save us from relegation.

i think i would rather be relegated:greengrin

[YetholmHibee]

Correct. Calderwood is not to blame for the situation he finds himself in (there are plenty of other parties to pin our woes on).

However, he is guilty of having made no measurable impact since arriving, and that is a major disappointment.

:top marks :agree:

[sesoim]

i think i would rather be relegated:greengrin


A lot of fans made that quite clear, but Jimmy Calderwood has a great record and knows the SPL inside out. CC was highly unpopular at Notts Forest and doesn't know much about the SPL, and must have cost a lot more to bring to the club than Jimmy would have.

I'm not saying Jimmy Calderwood would be my first choice as manager of Hibs, but after the run of unproven/unsuitable/inadequate appointments Petrie has made, I wanted him as manager because I'd much rather have had a straight down the line, reliable, you know what you get type of manager like him. He would get us top four most seasons - I don't expect CC to ever get us out of the bottom six.

[reservoir hibee]

but Jimmy Calderwood has a great record .


without researching this straight away as its 3.33pm here and im working


has he???????

will have a wee look at his record in between work but i dont think so

willing to be proven wrong

but has he won anything

[Beefster]

But what if we have apponted the wrong guy again? Petrie is really the guy to blame for appointing him. He failed to do the research and ignored other, better options.

Any fan with half a brain knew Calderwood wasn't successful or popular in England, plus he cost a lot more money to employ than many decent candidates in Scotland/currently unemployed. I was shocked when we appointed him and I'm not surprised this run has gotten worse.

Petrie has failed abysmally yet again in the most important role he ha to fulfill - employing decent managers.

You seem to be completely ignorant of his record as a manager so every time that I see you repeat your myth about him doing nothing as a manager, I'm going to post the Wikipedia link so that you can see his two promotions and loss %age of 27% (and that's rounding it up).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Calderwood#Manager

Happy to help.

Edit: You might want to compare his win/draw/loss percentages with Jimmy Calderwood before you keep claiming that Jimmy Calderwood has a better record.

[Big90inOz]

There were a few things yesterday which had alarm bells ringing for me.

Grounds, thought he offered very little and will not be missed if his loan period is up. I thought Lewis would have offered a lot more from the fullback position.

Mcbride comes on and virtually plays a step in front of the CH, FFS Ayr had a lone striker. We were out numbered in the middle and upfront as we had 4 defenders being occupied by one striker, we then have McBride back there too.

Zemmama was so far off this pace it wasn't funny, he spent half his time chasing the ball due his ( unusually) terrible first touch. Wotherspoon would have offered more. Does Zemmama look that good in training against his team mates that made him a worthwhile pick ?

Deeks had a mare even before he picked up the injury, him and Duffy were too lightweight a partnership for their no nonsence defenders. We needed a physical presence up front and Trakys should have been given the 2nd half.

The difference between us and Ayr was negligable which is a frightening thought as Ayr were very very poor. The bottom line is Ayr SHOULD have won, sad but true

We are slow, clueless, with very little heart or effort--- very worrying.

I can see no improvements in shape or effort since CC's arrival.

IF we stay up you have to ask is CC the man to overhaul the playing staff ? Can we put our faith in the man to get it right ? If he gets it wrong we are up to our necks in sh*t

[Davy Mac]

You seem to be completely ignorant of his record as a manager so every time that I see you repeat your myth about him doing nothing as a manager, I'm going to post the Wikipedia link so that you can see his two promotions and loss %age of 27% (and that's rounding it up).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Calderwood#Manager

Happy to help.

Edit: You might want to compare his win/draw/loss percentages with Jimmy Calderwood before you keep claiming that Jimmy Calderwood has a better record.


Good info.

Hopefully the re-building process starts this month, CC will have to be focused, decisive and downright selfish to gets what he needs to turn this mess around.

[Craig_in_Prague]

I think CC will walk end of Jan, if he can't sign a couple of players.

These players cost the manager(s) that signed them his job, and I think it would be terrible if CC was sacked coz of these uslesss clowns wearing the jersey.

But I do fear when CC see's the reality of the constraints working at Hibs, he'll walk at the end of this month.

This season is going to get worse and worse IMO.

Depressing times, why oh why were some players not lined up to come in 01/01/2011, we need to dust down the cheque book or the cost of playing 1st division football will see this club we all love in serious trouble. I'm not quite so sure we'd stroll back into the SPL like last time.

[The Falcon]

Calderwood must have sold himself to the board with some sort of plan and vision for Hibs to get the job, and they must have bought into it.

Calderwood and the board knew at the time that the new manager was inheriting a squad that were in a downward spiral and that something had to change. They surely had the chat that, what if things haven't improved by January? Calderwood must have said I'll do this, I have these contacts to bring in players and these ideas to turn it around.

As crap as we have been he has not had a chance to change personnel until now.

If we don't bring in anyone in January he is either

1. not being backed by the board
2. doesn't have any ideas
3. can't get the players he wants (which may mean we can't afford them and is a fu**up on both sides)

I am no expert but I thought Calderwood was a risky appointment, the situation at the time cried out for an experienced manager to steady the ship (Craig Brown for example).

However, I am willing to give Calderwood a chance and judge him when he has a chance to build his team.

If there are no signings in this transfer window there has to be big questions asked and I would like to know why not.

Overall I am worried about Hibs in a way I haven't been since I watched us under Duffy, back then we got McLeish in and spent a lot of money to turn us around and got into a lot of debt as a result when the Sky deal collapsed.

I go to Easter Road to be entertained, I hate it when we lose but I despair when we are clueless on the park. I speak to a lot of fellow Hibbies at the moment who are simply not going as the football on offer is too bad, this ranges from kids to pensioners, I honestly don't think the cost is a huge factor. I remember times under Duffy when I couldn't give my season ticket away if I was on holiday, we were that bad. We are that bad again, something major has to change.

I fear that the board keep making the wrong managerial appointments and getting the balance wrong between running a business and running a football team for the fans.

We fans are the club, I for one demand better. If the current board cannot deliver it then it's time for a change.

So buy them out if you feel that strongly.

[Expecting Rain]

We have three weeks of the window left so let's see what that brings.

To be calling for the head of CC is just ludicrous in my opinion. The man has just come into Scottish football, assisted by a young, hungry coach, which will only benefit Hibernian in the long run.

The players are the one's who are letting the coaching staff and the fans down. Once they run over the white line you are pretty limited with what you can do as a coach. Yes you can make substitutions, and I thought today he made the right ones. Murray had picked up an injury so we needed a holding player. He put on DW because let's face it wee Zemmama was having a howler and was way off the pace. And he brought on Trakys to try and mix it up when we were all too often trying to walk it through bodies.

CC is lumbered, and I mean lumbered, with a squad of players already in a losing mindset thanks to John Hughes. They have/had experienced losing more than winning, and conceding goals was an art form at times. Even Mourinho could not change things around with this group in a matter of weeks.

He needs time, support from the fans, and backing from the board. That is key. If he gets 3 players in, ones which can make an immediate impact, we will see how we fare. I have every faith he will turn the club around into a very professional one, but he needs to get rid of many a poor footballer first, and get young, fresh, hungry footballers in, that want to appreciate and bleed for the cause.

The drinking and gambling culture has to stop too. It is abundantly clear to my mind that it is having an effect on the team and the squad as a whole. There is no unity. Just disharmony. No leadership and no players that instil fear and complete respect. Just eleven players, most soon to be out-of-contract, running about with no real passion or desire and no burning need to win games at all costs.

This is what CC has to get across to the players and I am sure he will.......but it will be by the skin of our teeth this season methinks. Next season is where the real work starts and some are going to get a real shock to their system......some may even have to get proper jobs :greengrin

And the three players have to be players that give the team a better shape, assisting Hanlon,Miller and Riordan/Duffy through the middle of the team.

[SMAXXA]

Laughable! If he was keeping the same team every week you'd be on his case, he's getting duffy and zemmama back in the squad should he not play them? By the guys own admission he knows little about the scottish game or the players he has to see who he wants to keep, if any so he has to try them all!!
This squad of players have already made one manager look useless and tacticly inept, ever thought there just not a bunch of brainless overpaid huddies that are not fit to call themselves profesionals! If calderwood loses his job before he has had time to bring in his own staff then i wont be returning to easter road, players get away with far too much these days whilst the manager carrys the can.

I fail to see whats laughable about it at all. Im certainly not advicating not playing Zemmama and Duffy but this goes back far before the last week since they have been involved. I dont think we have played the same team in concecutive matches since he arrived. Yeah I agree he has to have a look at the players etc but is chopping and changing the team EVERY week in crutial SPL matches the way to do it or can this not be done in bounce games etc? When you have a p*ss poor squad who are doing as bad as we are, is making constant changes the best way to turn things around, or would playing a consistant team for a period of a few weeks to let them form an understanding and gel be the better option? Seems to me the changes and the players he brings in are making no difference to our results as it is. All IMO of course I just feel when we are as bad as we are I would want a bit consistancy with the team selection for a start then if not working change it. Id even go as far as saying we should look at going 5 at the back as we look shoddy and we should be looking to just make ourselves as hard to beat as possible as at the moment everytime a team attacks us I feel we are going to conceed.

[EasterRoad4Ever]

There were a few things yesterday which had alarm bells ringing for me.

Grounds, thought he offered very little and will not be missed if his loan period is up. I thought Lewis would have offered a lot more from the fullback position.

Mcbride comes on and virtually plays a step in front of the CH, FFS Ayr had a lone striker. We were out numbered in the middle and upfront as we had 4 defenders being occupied by one striker, we then have McBride back there too.

Zemmama was so far off this pace it wasn't funny, he spent half his time chasing the ball due his ( unusually) terrible first touch. Wotherspoon would have offered more. Does Zemmama look that good in training against his team mates that made him a worthwhile pick ?

Deeks had a mare even before he picked up the injury, him and Duffy were too lightweight a partnership for their no nonsence defenders. We needed a physical presence up front and Trakys should have been given the 2nd half.

The difference between us and Ayr was negligable which is a frightening thought as Ayr were very very poor. The bottom line is Ayr SHOULD have won, sad but true

We are slow, clueless, with very little heart or effort--- very worrying.

I can see no improvements in shape or effort since CC's arrival.

IF we stay up you have to ask is CC the man to overhaul the playing staff ? Can we put our faith in the man to get it right ? If he gets it wrong we are up to our necks in sh*t

This is a key point for me, as we we've seen it many times in the past - a Hibs manager who has proved unable to spot/pick decent signings so the Board just refuse to release funds or make it incredibly difficult for him. I'm worried that CC is already in that position - even though he's bought no one. Petrie is probably watching CC's performance from the sidelines thinking can I trust this man to spend my "precious" wisely ? If Petrie has no faith in CC to do this, then we are truly stuffed, as the whole squad is due to walk in 5 months time. I suspect the Board is already having doubts about CC and may even be withholding funds. If so, and they are forced to sack CC to avoid relegation then Petrie's position is untenable and he has to go.

Petrie's choices are simple here. He has no option but to back CC with funds to avoid relegation.

If CC walks, Petrie has to go.
If Hibs get relegated, Petrie has to go.
If CC is sacked, Petrie has to go.

Hibs look like a club that has no long term strategy or plan for the footballing side of the business - crazy since football is our business. We look like a club that's stumbling around hoping things come good somehow. IMHO Petrie has done his bit. Like Churchill, he was the right man at the right time. But we have moved into a new era where all the energies now need to be focused on football and getting the strategy and tactics right. However this plays out, IMHO Petrie needs to go.

[cad]

Benji staying would have made a difference if you ask me but there's plenty reasons why he was shown the door and one guy may not make to much of a difference I hate to think what state we would be in if Deek had been sold
How do you lift players on the way out who know they are on the way out , which looks to be the case with a fare few of them IMO , well you dont they've had there chance.
Drop them all put the younger players in mixed with the few that give a toss
( if there are any left at ER ) and whatever signings Colin can bring in .
CCs hands are tied till his own players come in but TBH I expected more from him tactically as to what hes putting on the park ,which does cause me some concern but various things can be attributed to that ,players indifferent to his game plan mavericks doing there own thing players not committed in case they get injured that are for the off etc .
We are taking a big chance with the players that are playing for us at the minute keeping us up so maybe it would better to take the challenge on that's facing us with players giving there all looking to a future at Hibs rather than players looking at the quickest way out of Easter Road .
Or maybe that's asking to much of our youngsters .
I could handle the defeats with a team of players working hard and doing there best and I would applaud them of the park for there efforts ,what I wont do is week in week out is pay to watch guys taking the pee ,time for a change Colin a big change maybe to big for some but I think given the chance the youngsters with a little help from the older pros and 2 or 3 new signings would relish the challenge ,put it this way if you knew that the 11 guys coming out next week to play for The Glorious were guaranteed to be giving to a man 110% you just may get the crowds back win or lose keep it as it is now and its a loser all the way .

[KenN]

I understand CC is just in the door and needs time to build his own team, but I have very serious doubts that he is the man to do it.
Watching yesterday, watching the constant changes in first team selection etc. is truly worrying. The lack of any impact the new manager has made is more worrying having seen the difference Brown has made at Aberdeen. When I saw the Aberdeen score at halfr time yesterday I said to my son that this is what should be happening here.
CC seems to be uninspiring beyond belief. I am saddened at what I see to the point where I can't be bothered watching any more. My son and I have season tickets and when my son mentioned he may have to work next Saturday, my first thought is that I don't think I'll bother going, and that is a major game against a big club. I don't think CC should be given any more time and the lack of players arriving already rings alarm bells as to his ability and potentially our (Hibs) ability to attract new players. CC has to take responsibility for not making any impact, no matter if it is an inherited squad.
Sorry guys, I am all doom and gloom, but that is how I feel watching this dross.
Something has to be done urgently.

[hibsbollah]

We have three weeks of the window left so let's see what that brings.

To be calling for the head of CC is just ludicrous in my opinion. The man has just come into Scottish football, assisted by a young, hungry coach, which will only benefit Hibernian in the long run.

The players are the one's who are letting the coaching staff and the fans down. Once they run over the white line you are pretty limited with what you can do as a coach. Yes you can make substitutions, and I thought today he made the right ones. Murray had picked up an injury so we needed a holding player. He put on DW because let's face it wee Zemmama was having a howler and was way off the pace. And he brought on Trakys to try and mix it up when we were all too often trying to walk it through bodies.

CC is lumbered, and I mean lumbered, with a squad of players already in a losing mindset thanks to John Hughes. They have/had experienced losing more than winning, and conceding goals was an art form at times. Even Mourinho could not change things around with this group in a matter of weeks.

He needs time, support from the fans, and backing from the board. That is key. If he gets 3 players in, ones which can make an immediate impact, we will see how we fare. I have every faith he will turn the club around into a very professional one, but he needs to get rid of many a poor footballer first, and get young, fresh, hungry footballers in, that want to appreciate and bleed for the cause.

The drinking and gambling culture has to stop too. It is abundantly clear to my mind that it is having an effect on the team and the squad as a whole. There is no unity. Just disharmony. No leadership and no players that instil fear and complete respect. Just eleven players, most soon to be out-of-contract, running about with no real passion or desire and no burning need to win games at all costs.

This is what CC has to get across to the players and I am sure he will.......but it will be by the skin of our teeth this season methinks. Next season is where the real work starts and some are going to get a real shock to their system......some may even have to get proper jobs :greengrin

Good post:agree:

[Since90+2]

So buy them out if you feel that strongly.

What kind of response is that? The guy is putting across his view and you come out with that ridiculous statement.

[J-C]

I understand CC is just in the door and needs time to build his own team, but I have very serious doubts that he is the man to do it.
Watching yesterday, watching the constant changes in first team selection etc. is truly worrying. The lack of any impact the new manager has made is more worrying having seen the difference Brown has made at Aberdeen. When I saw the Aberdeen score at halfr time yesterday I said to my son that this is what should be happening here.
CC seems to be uninspiring beyond belief. I am saddened at what I see to the point where I can't be bothered watching any more. My son and I have season tickets and when my son mentioned he may have to work next Saturday, my first thought is that I don't think I'll bother going, and that is a major game against a big club. I don't think CC should be given any more time and the lack of players arriving already rings alarm bells as to his ability and potentially our (Hibs) ability to attract new players. CC has to take responsibility for not making any impact, no matter if it is an inherited squad.
Sorry guys, I am all doom and gloom, but that is how I feel watching this dross.
Something has to be done urgently.


Yes he does seem to be a bit dour, but I think that's just his way, a typical dour Scotsman.

I think personally that these group of players maybe apart from a couple don't give a monkeys about Hibs, they have little or no pride in themselves and due to a lot of them probably going within the next few months aren't trying a hoot due to no motivation. I persoanally didn't go yesterday as I've had enough of the garbage on show and I feel the only way to show the directors is by demonstrating with my feet as I feel booing does little, infact makes it worse.

The crowd yesterday should show them we are fed up and something needs done, it's now time to start investing in the team and not the structural side of things, we're not talking about going daft with silly wages, but we do need to up wages for certain individuals if we want to get a better quality in, i.e. if 10 players go @ £2,000 a week.......bring in 4-5 @ £4-5,000 a week.

[Hiber-nation]

Some good points on this thread. If we were to empty Calderwood this season, given the mess he's inherited we really would be the laughing stock of Scottish football.

What I'd like to hear is Petrie doing a Lex Gold and offering his resignation should we get relegated.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think it's a bit soon for sacking calderwood or calling for his head. It is worrying however, that the team have had no change in attitude under a new boss (see brown and Knox).

I think there is something seriously wrong behind the scenes with a couple of players upsetting the apple cart.
If possible calderwood has to clear out the players. I would start with riordan, miller and the other 'big' players. Prior to this I would start by stripping the captaincy off riordan as he does not lead by example and I have never seen him encourage anyone.
The rest need to follow. Doing this will ensure the mentality of the squad changes and cc can impose his own regime!

I would keep the up and coming players and a few others like Hanlon, spoony, and brown!

Another thing that really frustrates me is the financial constraints. It would be nice to see a manager get a lump sum to do with how he pleases, with this including wages. So for example if cc wants to blow his budget on ronaldinho so be it.

[Davy Mac]

I think it's a bit soon for sacking calderwood or calling for his head. It is worrying however, that the team have had no change in attitude under a new boss (see brown and Knox).

I think there is something seriously wrong behind the scenes with a couple of players upsetting the apple cart.
If possible calderwood has to clear out the players. I would start with riordan, miller and the other 'big' players. Prior to this I would start by stripping the captaincy off riordan as he does not lead by example and I have never seen him encourage anyone.
The rest need to follow. Doing this will ensure the mentality of the squad changes and cc can impose his own regime!

I would keep the up and coming players and a few others like Hanlon, spoony, and brown!

Another thing that really frustrates me is the financial constraints. It would be nice to see a manager get a lump sum to do with how he pleases, with this including wages. So for example if cc wants to blow his budget on ronaldinho so be it.

See your point, but modern day business doesn't allow one person to do that these days without higher authority.

However, keeping the youngsters you've mentioned and adding 6 young up and coming talented footballers (wi a fitba brain please) from the UK or Europe and selling on when the time is right is the way forward.

£200,000 for Leigh Griffiths etc is not a gamble in footballing terms, not if you see the bigger picture. Fit, athletic, hungry, reasonably affordable wages at this stage, first team exposure, get the fans back - that'll do for me.

At least we would have a clear strategy.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think it's a bit soon for sacking calderwood or calling for his head. It is worrying however, that the team have had no change in attitude under a new boss (see brown and Knox).

I think there is something seriously wrong behind the scenes with a couple of players upsetting the apple cart.
If possible calderwood has to clear out the players. I would start with riordan, miller and the other 'big' players. Prior to this I would start by stripping the captaincy off riordan as he does not lead by example and I have never seen him encourage anyone.
The rest need to follow. Doing this will ensure the mentality of the squad changes and cc can impose his own regime!

I would keep the up and coming players and a few others like Hanlon, spoony, and brown!

Another thing that really frustrates me is the financial constraints. It would be nice to see a manager get a lump sum to do with how he pleases, with this including wages. So for example if cc wants to blow his budget on ronaldinho so be it.

See your point, but modern day business doesn't allow one person to do that these days without higher authority.

However, keeping the youngsters you've mentioned and adding 6 young up and coming talented footballers (wi a fitba brain please) from the UK or Europe and selling on when the time is right is the way forward.

£200,000 for Leigh Griffiths etc is not a gamble in footballing terms, not if you see the bigger picture. Fit, athletic, hungry, reasonably affordable wages at this stage, first team exposure, get the fans back - that'll do for me.

At least we would have a clear strategy.

Aye, thats kind of what i thought.

I take it managers get no say re: wages these days? I just think it would make more sense if he was able to spend a lump sum how felt would benefit the team!! Ie. 1 player costing 500000 with wages of 5000 a week or 2 players at 250000 earning 2500 a week depending on what was needed.

All conjecture.

[Davy Mac]

[QUOTE=Davy Mac;2684142]

Aye, thats kind of what i thought.

I take it managers get no say re: wages these days? I just think it would make more sense if he was able to spend a lump sum how felt would benefit the team!! Ie. 1 player costing 500000 with wages of 5000 a week or 2 players at 250000 earning 2500 a week depending on what was needed.

All conjecture.

I think RP took a view on wage restrictions/structure after the Sky deal went belly up a few years ago plus the cost ratio per revenue/wage rose above a sustainable level and obviously the stadia/training infrastucture.

IMO he has now accomplished that part of the plan and although I see your logic, if that one player got injured.........then we've got no plan B as there is no money left to buy again.

We are a stepping stone club like every other club in Scotland but our scouting system should be targeting under 21 guys from all over the country for us to develop and sell on on the future.

Some might stay but by in large this is our vehicle as we just can't afford to pay the salaries like some other clubs do but we should be able to attract the very best with the facilities we have.

Play to our strengths.

[ahibby]

I haven't read all the thread, its too long already, but I don't agree with the op. I can't see CC going anytime soon.

[RickyS]

I haven't read all the thread, its too long already, but I don't agree with the op. I can't see CC going anytime soon.

the ink on his 3 yr deal is still wet. no way Rod would pay him off

[The Falcon]

And we were doing that pretty well but something has gone wrong but to suggest, as some do, that spending more money will make all our problems go away is nonsense.

Equally nonsense is that the manager has no say whatsoever in the wages of a player. Who would work under those conditions?



[QUOTE=Magnum Hibee;2684167]

I think RP took a view on wage restrictions/structure after the Sky deal went belly up a few years ago plus the cost ratio per revenue/wage rose above a sustainable level and obviously the stadia/training infrastucture.

IMO he has now accomplished that part of the plan and although I see your logic, if that one player got injured.........then we've got no plan B as there is no money left to buy again.

We are a stepping stone club like every other club in Scotland but our scouting system should be targeting under 21 guys from all over the country for us to develop and sell on on the future.

Some might stay but by in large this is our vehicle as we just can't afford to pay the salaries like some other clubs do but we should be able to attract the very best with the facilities we have.

Play to our strengths.

[Davy Mac]

[QUOTE=The Falcon;2684205]And we were doing that pretty well but something has gone wrong but to suggest, as some do, that spending more money will make all our problems go away is nonsense.

Equally nonsense is that the manager has no say whatsoever in the wages of a player. Who would work under those conditions?


Yes agreed, something has gone wrong but spending more wisely is a must going forward rather than just adding average players like De Graaf etc.

Secondly - I think perhaps we need to look at why a succession of Managers didn't hang around working under these conditions.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

And we were doing that pretty well but something has gone wrong but to suggest, as some do, that spending more money will make all our problems go away is nonsense.

Equally nonsense is that the manager has no say whatsoever in the wages of a player. Who would work under those conditions?


[QUOTE=Davy Mac;2684189]

I don't think there was a suggestion that the manager has no say and i would imagine that this is at the discretion of individual chairmen.

I wasn't suggesting you have to throw money at the current problem i was just questioning how Calderwood is allowed to spend his allocation of money.

I would say my suggestion is viable but it has to be done with the chairman's consent and if for example you spend more of your allocation on 1 player who gets injured then the accountability lies at the feet of the manager.

[The Falcon]

Yes agreed, something has gone wrong but spending more wisely is a must going forward rather than just adding average players like De Graaf etc.

Secondly - I think perhaps we need to look at why a succession of Managers didn't hang around working under these conditions.

Did they have a choice? Had it been me and my whole professional reputation had been trashed through no fault of my own I would be screaming from the rooftops.

[Davy Mac]

Did they have a choice? Had it been me and my whole professional reputation had been trashed through no fault of my own I would be screaming from the rooftops.

JC was probably the best example with this regard.

I get the feeling promises or suggestions that are made at interviews/contract talks are not quite being carried through. I'm probably wrong but that's just how I'm interpreting the last 5 years.

[Franck is God]

The definition of madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting the same result. Obviously CC is not that keen on what he is seeing so it makes sense that he would try different things. Everything else that has been tried has, for the most part, resulted in nothing. Why shouldn't he try and mix things up? Maybe things that worked during practice are not working during matches? I don't know but if things are not working then I am glad that he is tinkering with the system

Well what ever he did to win 3-0 at Ibrox was worth another try or how about the side that came back from being 2 down at home to Dundee United.

The situation we are in right now reminds me of the what Craig Levein found himself when he arrived at Tannadice, he filled his team with experienced giants, brought in Dods and Wilkie to play at the back, De Vries to play up top as a battering ram. Made them really hard to beat and concentrated on getting goals from set pieces and over a period of time introduced footballers like Conway, Swanson, Gomis, Bauben, Goodwillie etc. to make them a more rounded side capable of finishing third and winning the cup.

It may not be pretty to watch but given our current circumstances this is what I want to see our plan being for the rest of the season.

[Stevie Reid]

I am a level headed supporter who has backed every manager we have ever had, and supported the board's business plan until now - however...

We need to face up to reality, and fast - if we carry on the way we are going, and there is not a dramatic improvement, we will be relegated. We have not beaten a bottom 6 team all season, and the only way to get out of our position is to beat the teams around us. The other teams surrounding us know how to pick up points to survive, and our only other hope - Aberdeen - will not look back after doing what we should've done and appointed Brown and Knox. Let's see how many points they finish above us at the end of the season.

I almost bored myself arguing the case for appointing Brown before Calderwood arrived, but unless we were the team that Brown turned down (which I find almost impossible to believe), we have made a HUGE error. Appointing CB and AK was as close to a no brainer as you can get for a managerial appointment, which are almost always a risk. The experience and knowledge that they would have brought, along with great contacts, an appealing style of football, and a phenomenal win rate at Motherwell, would have had us climbing up the league way before now, I'm positive of that. CB has won more games in his first 4 than Calderwood has managed as yet. And if we did pay compensation for CC and DA when Brown and Knox were working without contracts, that's even harder to swallow.

As a realistic, level headed supporter I do not expect miracles from Calderwood, but I would hope by now to see some tangible improvement in results (most importantly) and performances - but there is absolutely no doubt that we are getting worse. We know the players aren't great, but we do NOT have the worst squad in the league, or even come close to it - so keeping this group of players in the league until the mass clearout in the summer should not be too difficult a task. Alas it is looking beyond Calderwood at the moment. We are not good enough to go and beat teams, we are not even good enough to shut a game down and try to nick points - it's unbelievable to think that CC managed a team to 25 clean sheets in a season. To start his tenure with 3 defeats against Aberdeen, Utd and Hearts, and then to begin the next round of fixtures with 1 point out of the 9 (against a Utd team who had barely kicked a ball in weeks), shows how little positive impact he has had (never mind the fact that Aberdeen were in shocking form before their first win, then had 7 defeats in a row prior to beating us again).

Yes the board must accept responsibility too. This transfer window is the ONLY chance we have to save our season, and we cannot afford to wait until the last hours of January 31st to do business - in the first week we have brought in no one and another 2 games have passed, with no win and no goals. The fact that we have sold one of our most important players during that time is absurd. We need 2 or 3 players who can come straight into our first team now, and if that means paying over the odds to get them, so be it. Our new stand (which I still support the building of) will look really stupid when we are in the first division.

In conclusion, action must be taken immediately to bring players in. If that is done and there is still no improvement, drastic steps MUST be taken. Would we look stupid if we sacked Calderwood after such a small length of time? Yes. Would it matter a **** if it kept us in the SPL? No ****ing way.

Reality is kicking our door in and we must respond.

[Jones28]

Surely he needs to be given another year maximum?

I don't expect to see many changes in terms of the squad in January, as other teams aren't going to be looking at players who's contracts are up in 6 months anyway.

In the summer 16 contracts run out - the dead wood is let go, a couple of players have contracts resigned and the manager brings in a small amount of far superior players.

The team needs a new core - a dominant centre half (Rob Jones anyone?), a ball-winning midfielder (Mickey Stuart but less Jambo-ish), an attacking midfielder (the guy that scored a belter against hearts for Killie would do me) and a new centre forward (or better yet, Trakys - wins headers and knockdowns for riordan and duffy and who should have started against Ayr instead of Riordan IMO).

Miller is utter gash, no doubt, whatever he had at Man Utd he has lost. He *****es it in the tackle and is using Hibs as a top for his wage packet. He couldnt pass yesterday and has not been able to for sometime.

Mcbride looked far better than Murray when he came on yesterday, he won more of the ball and passed it far better than Miller and Murray combined.

Unfortunately for both Murray and Riordan I dont think they are good enough any more. It pains me to say it but Riordan was painfully slow yesterday and has been for sometime. He has moments of pure brilliance but these days they are far overshadowed by his lack of pace. The same goes for Ian Murray, he has a couple of good challenges or passes in a match but these are more often or not outdone by miss-placed passing and a lack of pace.

Thicot is far better suited to the CDM role IMHO, he's too error prone at present to have no cover, but he played terrifically in that position against Motherwell and would be much better in their than Murray. Young Stevens to replace him a right back please.

Our centre back pairing seems to be working out, they did very well against Hearts so I would be keeping them, no more chopping and changing.

[aob4green]

That group of players finished 4th last season and at one point we were dreaming of finishing 2nd!

Without Stokes and Bamba now because as per usual Petrie sells the family silver.

[smurf]

Without Stokes and Bamba now because as per usual Petrie sells the family silver.

I've no issue with that.

My issue is how we reinvest and replace...

[HibsMax]

We do. We can't spend that much money either.

We do? I thought other clubs had way more debt than we do.

[HibsMax]

Agree with you 100%. Since Calderwood's appointment we have seen no change in -

System
Shape
Tactics
Energy
Commitment
Form

Surely the manager has to accept some of the responsibility otherwise why bother with a manager at all.

I'm not encouraged by what I see and although I think we have good enough individual players to see us through, I fear that our lack of togetherness could cost us in the end.

My question is what evidence have we seen that this current team is manageable at all? Do we think if we brought in Sir Alex Ferguson that all of a sudden the results would change? Maybe they would, maybe not but there is nothing over the past several months that would suggest so.

[HibsMax]

Knew someone would say that. Correct its not. Point is we could go and find a drunk sleeping on a bench in Leith Links to be our manager and he could get us a 0-0 draw at home to Ayr. What exactly is CC doing!? He certainly doesn't seem to be motivating our players. Its easy to blame the players(dont get me wrong, I think the majority are utterly pathetic) BUT a good manager would get more out of them and that is a fact. Look at Inter, Champs League winners with Jose lst yr, absolute crap this yr with Rafa! Largely the same players, why?

Unfortunately it's not a fact, it's your opinion. There is only so much a manager can actually do. The rest is up to the players.

I am not saying that CC is completely blameless but the problem existed before he arrived so it's not something that he brought to the club. The rot existed already.

[HibsMax]

Only until you get it right.

We don't know if we got it right or wrong. We still have the same (less actually) players as when he joined.

If making a team better was as simple as changing the manager then why are all the multi-million pound deals for players?

[Kaiser1962]

We do? I thought other clubs had way more debt than we do.

That they do HibsMax. The really really REALLY galling part of it is they seem to overspend with virtual impunity. Kilmarnock (a train wreck) avoiding relegation last year by pipping Falkirk (a well run financially prudent club) and then the Chairman of Kilmarnock seeks Government financial assistance for his club? So where's the fairness in that. I defend the current boards fiscal policy against other, sometimes persuasive, arguments to the contrary but there are no points handed out or rewards for being a tidy well run organisation that pays their bills on time.

[HibsMax]

Because it is utterly mindless.

Folk come in play get dropped and come back in weeks / months later.

He doesnt seem able to decide upon whether a player has it or not.

There is absolutely no pattern emerging of play and especially of selection.

He isnt just changing 1 or 2 a game it is wholesale changes he is regularly making.

If I could see a pattern emerging I would have no problem with him tinkering at the edges with it.

I cant imagine the players know if they are coming or going.

IMO they are all too scared to try anything as they dont see their places in the team as secure and are trying to do just the simple things to keep their place, over thinking them and messing it up.

It needs to be immediate and instinctive, how can it be if you dont if the guy outside you wants it long short or not at all as that guy changes week by week?

There's something far wrong if he hasnt identified his best fully fit team and squad by now.

You say you are glad he is changing it as it isnt working?

How about he gave it a chance to settle for a couple of weeks and then tried again if that didnt work?

We must have had very nearly every other permutation possible?

Watching Hibs team sheet is like waiting for the lottery numbers, every ones a surprise!

It looks like a guy without a clue rolling the dice and hoping his numbers come up.
I hear what you're saying. I think it's a balance. Some people will think he tinkers too much, other think it's not enough. If he played the same team all the time and they were performing badly, CC would get pelters. He's changing the team around and we're not performing well and he's getting pelters. It's a lose-lose situation.

Perhaps the reason he hasn't settled on a starting XI is because nobody on the team is playing consistent enough to warrant a starting spot?

For what it's worth I am not CC in disguise. I am not even an apologist for him. I just think that people are justifiably pissed off with the results but I also don't think that CC has been given any sort of real chance to do anything. He inherited a team that was already losing.

[Cropley10]

[QUOTE=The Falcon;2684205]And we were doing that pretty well but something has gone wrong but to suggest, as some do, that spending more money will make all our problems go away is nonsense.

Equally nonsense is that the manager has no say whatsoever in the wages of a player. Who would work under those conditions?




I don't think there was a suggestion that the manager has no say and i would imagine that this is at the discretion of individual chairmen.

I wasn't suggesting you have to throw money at the current problem i was just questioning how Calderwood is allowed to spend his allocation of money.

I would say my suggestion is viable but it has to be done with the chairman's consent and if for example you spend more of your allocation on 1 player who gets injured then the accountability lies at the feet of the manager.

There are suggestions, not unreasonable ones either, that there are non-disclosure clauses in place which prevent certain 'operational practices' becoming public knowledge.

I think the challenge is that the Manager manages the team, the Board deals with the rest of it - certainly as far as players and budgets go.

[HibsMax]

craig brown, won first 2 and scores 6 in the cup...

hibs sign sauzee, mowbray, collins, mixu, hughes calderwood.

none classed as experienced.

why not give brown the job, too expensive ? bad call from hibs but then we always get inexperienced managers. The cheap options of course..


Blame the board ??

cheap managers, cheap players, but we have a nice stadium and an outside training facility with a barn for 5 a sides.

doesn't seem right to me..
Good teams come and go. What's the most Hibs can expect out of a truly gifted player? A few seasons until he's snapped up?

If the club ignore the stadium and training facilities we would still need to worry about that in the future. Now we don't have that concern.

NOW is the time to invest in the club.

NOW, Rod! Are you listening?

[Cropley10]

Because it is utterly mindless.

Folk come in play get dropped and come back in weeks / months later.

He doesnt seem able to decide upon whether a player has it or not.

There is absolutely no pattern emerging of play and especially of selection.

He isnt just changing 1 or 2 a game it is wholesale changes he is regularly making.

If I could see a pattern emerging I would have no problem with him tinkering at the edges with it.

I cant imagine the players know if they are coming or going.

IMO they are all too scared to try anything as they dont see their places in the team as secure and are trying to do just the simple things to keep their place, over thinking them and messing it up.

It needs to be immediate and instinctive, how can it be if you dont if the guy outside you wants it long short or not at all as that guy changes week by week?

There's something far wrong if he hasnt identified his best fully fit team and squad by now.

You say you are glad he is changing it as it isnt working?

How about he gave it a chance to settle for a couple of weeks and then tried again if that didnt work?

We must have had very nearly every other permutation possible?

Watching Hibs team sheet is like waiting for the lottery numbers, every ones a surprise!

It looks like a guy without a clue rolling the dice and hoping his numbers come up.

What would you suggest?

He can't trust (m)any of them. They might be great in training and the opposite in matches.

Every new manager says that each player will be given an opportunity. This is what he's done!! He'd be crucified if he kept the same lot in week in week out.

I think anyone would struggle to find a system and a shape to suit that lot, frankly.

[HibsMax]

This entirely his fault not for his personal but the way we play and his constant chopping and changing of a under par team this for the first time I'm seriously thinking he will lose the support of the fans who I think have given him the benefit of the doubt so far

Not sure I totally understand what you're saying but how can this be his fault entirely? Were Hibs winning every week before he too over?

[HibsMax]

If we don't bring in anyone in January he is either

1. not being backed by the board
2. doesn't have any ideas
3. can't get the players he wants (which may mean we can't afford them and is a fu**up on both sides)

4. Hibs are riding the storm that is the 2010/2011 season and waiting until Summer for a clearout and wholesale changes.

You said yourself that CC and the board will have discussed plans. Why do the plans have to center around January?

Perhaps the plan is to use the rest of this season to determine which players, if any, are worth keeping?

At the end of the day we really don't know what they discussed.....

[HibsMax]

I agree that we should give a manager a fair crack at the whip, but, in this 12 team league the chances of going down are just to high! Thats why there is a constant conveyer belt of managers, the risk of relegation is just to high. At what point do you say that a manager isnt the correct person for the job?

In the SPL managers need to be instant success at a club like Hibs, there is no time for 'building'. Just look at Craig Brown, instant success!
I don't know at what point you say the manager isn't the correct person for the job but I would at least let him have the opportunity to create his own team. Managing the team isn't just about getting the huddies you inherit to perform when others before you couldn't, it's about building the team and he has not had that opportunity.

[BSEJVT]

What would you suggest?

He can't trust (m)any of them. They might be great in training and the opposite in matches.

Every new manager says that each player will be given an opportunity. This is what he's done!! He'd be crucified if he kept the same lot in week in week out.

I think anyone would struggle to find a system and a shape to suit that lot, frankly.

Dont get me wrong the players are almost without exception not fit to wear the jersey.

But dont you think he should have identified his best 11 by now or at least his best squad?

I see no evidence of things improving, its wholesale changes week after week.

Having giving everyone their chance he should now be be settling on a team and formation and giving them a chance to gel.

Its not as if results can get much worse?

He has tried just about everything else why not give that suggestion a go?

I am way past caring about performances, we need results and any old way will do.

One thing I do know though is that succesful teams are the product of consistent selection.

Look at the FA & Carling Cups this season, teams with far better players than us against relatively far poorer opposition (Ayr excepted) gettting pumped out of cups because the manager got too cute and made multiple changes.

Its not rocket science

When you have been around as long as I have you begin to realise that there are certain unassailable facts.

That relative consistency of selection gets you better results is undoubtedly one.