Directors Pay

[hibsbollah]

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/news/press-releases/directorspay2010.pdf

IDS reporting today that year to June 2010, earnings increased as follows;

Private sector average earnings increase 2.2%
Public sector average earnings increase 0.7%

(against Retail Price Index of 4.7%, so employees in all sectors of the economy are earning less than last year in real terms....)

FTSE Top 100 Directors? 55% increase in wages last year.
(across the FTSE Top 350, Directors pay went up 45%.

Does anyone still think we're 'all in it together'?:rolleyes:

[Speedy]

I personally don't have any objection to what private companies decide to pay their staff.

And I don't think you can compare FTSE 350 director bonuses with public sector executives as it does in the article. It doesn't even say what changes have been made to public sector bonuses.

"Steve Tatton, editor of the IDS Directors Pay Report comments: “It seems the days of earnings restraint by FTSE-350 directors were short-lived. It is as though the recession never happened.”

“It stands in stark contrast to the coalition Government’s concerns about pay fairness and calls for senior executives in the public sector to accept pay cuts.”"

Edit:

A large chunk of the increased earnings for the FTSE 100 directors are in the form of shares as well which means that their bonus is directly related to future performance.

[Bad Martini]

What's "fair" is irrelevant when talking about and comparing the public and private sectors.

The facts are, the private sector is just that...it's privately owned and thus down to those people running those companies, and any shareholders/trustees to approve or object to these whopping great fat ******* pay rises.

Dont get me wrong, it sickens me as well but what's pissing me off with this "in this together" crap is the GOVERNMENT bassas..............they ARE the people who can ensure we are actually in this together.

They cannot, should not and I hope will never, be able to dictate how much money anyone outwith the public sector earns. What they can do, is impose a taxation system on everyone which is "fair". This would mean, those who earn ****loads more than the rest of us, paying ****loads more than the rest of us. For example...a system that says you pay 10%, 20% then 50% but the bands are so close together, doesnt seem right. For example, non means tested winter fuel allowances for folk who dont even LIVE in the country still get paid...pensioners in Spain getting paid hundreds of notes because they've paid in...!

Here's an idea. If you NEED it and if you have contributed or genuinely could not contribute, then aye, we'll give you something.....cause thats just nice. But, if you've put in **** all and done **** all but could, you get next to nothing. And if you dont need it, you get nothing...its not "fair" to put in and get nowt out but neither is it fair to put in, get something out when in fact, you dont need it. You either help those less fortunate, or you dont. Lets get rid of this stupid half way house system we hve right now.

:agree:

[RyeSloan]

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/news/press-releases/directorspay2010.pdf

IDS reporting today that year to June 2010, earnings increased as follows;

Private sector average earnings increase 2.2%
Public sector average earnings increase 0.7%

(against Retail Price Index of 4.7%, so employees in all sectors of the economy are earning less than last year in real terms....)

FTSE Top 100 Directors? 55% increase in wages last year.
(across the FTSE Top 350, Directors pay went up 45%.

Does anyone still think we're 'all in it together'?:rolleyes:

Not sure what Goverment comments have to do with FTSE fims Directors pay to be honest....or are you suggesting that a UK government should start directly regulating pay at it's largest corporations?

When you consider the pretty spectacular returns the FTSE has returned in the last year or two (driven at least partly by recovering corporate profits) then it would seem entriely sensible for those Directors compensation to be increasing quite steeply from a period when their corporate returns were poorer and therefore their rewards lower.

As far as I am aware the public sector in absolute terms still has an average wage higher than the private sector.

Also lower wage increases compared to inflation hurt the individual but are a requirement in increasing the countries overall labour competitiveness compared to the rest of the world, especially after a bubble like we experienced...in the long run this can be very good news for jobs and the ecomomy as a whole. Just ask the Germans.

The alternative is higher than inflation wage increases, which in turn increases inflation even more and then you are in the land of the 70's and stagflation.

Which while none of that may console the man on the street today the alternative may be a hell of a lot nastier.....it can probalby be summed up that some short term pain can provide a lot of long term gain.

[(((Fergus)))]

disaffected public sector workers could always resign and find private sector work, ideally as directors or their own companies. :wink: then they could pay themselves what they wanted. :wink:

[Bad Martini]

disaffected public sector workers could always resign and find private sector work, ideally as directors or their own companies. :wink: then they could pay themselves what they wanted. :wink:

...then invest the lot in ropey funds and stupid dangerous sub-prime debt and ask for a wee borray til payday.........ahh wait a minute :greengrin

That said, pay at a level you wish is already available in the public sector. It's called "MP's Expenses" :aok:

[hibsbollah]

Not sure what Goverment comments have to do with FTSE fims Directors pay to be honest....or are you suggesting that a UK government should start directly regulating pay at it's largest corporations?


I would have thought thats pretty obvious; the Govt is preaching wage restraint to all of us, whether private or public, and linking it into a fatuous notion of the 'big society', where we all take the pain. This policy is doomed to failure if the majority of us feel as if the pain isnt being shared.



When you consider the pretty spectacular returns the FTSE has returned in the last year or two (driven at least partly by recovering corporate profits) then it would seem entriely sensible for those Directors compensation to be increasing quite steeply from a period when their corporate returns were poorer and therefore their rewards lower.



Again, you're making my case for me-this 'compensation':not worth (i had to laugh at that one) should be spread evenly throughout a business, or do only boardroom level company members contribute to wealth creation?



As far as I am aware the public sector in absolute terms still has an average wage higher than the private sector.


Thats true, although that reflects the higher number of graduates in public sector jobs. No-ones saying private sector workers are doing well under the current Govt and what this study shows is private sector wages and public sector wages are both well below the RPI, in contrast with Director level pay.



Also lower wage increases compared to inflation hurt the individual but are a requirement in increasing the countries overall labour competitiveness compared to the rest of the world, especially after a bubble like we experienced...in the long run this can be very good news for jobs and the ecomomy as a whole. Just ask the Germans.
The alternative is higher than inflation wage increases, which in turn increases inflation even more and then you are in the land of the 70's and stagflation.


If lower wage increases (2.2%) are good for competitiveness, why is this argument never trotted out for keeping director's pay down? Its the same old scenario-to make the poor work harder, you pay them less, but to make the poor work harder you pay them more.
As for the German economy, they are more competitive because they invest massively in vocational training, and have a good balance between industrial sectors, not because they keep wages down. Or are you arguing for Britain to adopt a more social democratic model of industrial policy in line with the German/Scandinavian system? if so id be inclined to agree with you.



Which while none of that may console the man on the street today the alternative may be a hell of a lot nastier.....it can probalby be summed up that some short term pain can provide a lot of long term gain.

That irrelevant to the point that the 'short term pain' isnt being felt at the top of the wage scale.

Its also being announced today that Cable has admitted defeat in reigning in bank bonuses.

2011 is going to be a year of industrial strife, and its quite clear where the fault lies.

[RyeSloan]

I would have thought thats pretty obvious; the Govt is preaching wage restraint to all of us, whether private or public, and linking it into a fatuous notion of the 'big society', where we all take the pain. This policy is doomed to failure if the majority of us feel as if the pain isnt being shared.



Again, you're making my case for me-this 'compensation':not worth (i had to laugh at that one) should be spread evenly throughout a business, or do only boardroom level company members contribute to wealth creation?



Thats true, although that reflects the higher number of graduates in public sector jobs. No-ones saying private sector workers are doing well under the current Govt and what this study shows is private sector wages and public sector wages are both well below the RPI, in contrast with Director level pay.



If lower wage increases (2.2%) are good for competitiveness, why is this argument never trotted out for keeping director's pay down? Its the same old scenario-to make the poor work harder, you pay them less, but to make the poor work harder you pay them more.
As for the German economy, they are more competitive because they invest massively in vocational training, and have a good balance between industrial sectors, not because they keep wages down. Or are you arguing for Britain to adopt a more social democratic model of industrial policy in line with the German/Scandinavian system? if so id be inclined to agree with you.



That irrelevant to the point that the 'short term pain' isnt being felt at the top of the wage scale.

Its also being announced today that Cable has admitted defeat in reigning in bank bonuses.

2011 is going to be a year of industrial strife, and its quite clear where the fault lies.

Of course there is a number of reasons Germany has maintained it’s ability to move forward but I can assure you the main driver underpinning it has been the fact that their economies competitiveness if high compared to it’s main trading partners, Germany had a prolonged period where wage growth was restrained and it is this that has allowed them to (largely) export their way to health.

If I used remuneration instead would it make you laugh less? :greengrin
Are you seriously suggesting everyone in a company should be paid the same and the people making the strategic decisions should not be rewarded when the company does well? You seem to assume that only the Directors’ pay is rising in these companies, I’m pretty sure there will be bonuses for their top workers and managers as well but I suppose that wouldn’t make good headlines, unless of course they happen to work at a bank.

You also assume that unless you are a Director at these companies you will be one of the poor working harder or for less when this will be far from the truth.

Of course the government is preaching wage constraint across the economy as a whole, it makes a lot of sense I don’t however believe that that should mean them intervening to restrict certain groups outwith their direct control, be that company Directors of the FTSE350 or the wage the local joiner gets from his local employer.

I just don’t get this pain isn’t being shared vibe….Britain has a policy of taxing people 20% of their income above £6.5k, 40% of their income above £45k and 50% of their income over £150k…and that’s before NI or all the other tax the government charges…is that not enough ‘pain’ for these people to bear, in fact is it not closer to the truth that there has been too many people living off their pain for too long?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm all for the rich getting more pay, because they drive the economy on by stashing their money offshore and buying villas in Tuscany.

We're all in this together.

[Andy74]

http://www.incomesdata.co.uk/news/press-releases/directorspay2010.pdf

IDS reporting today that year to June 2010, earnings increased as follows;

Private sector average earnings increase 2.2%
Public sector average earnings increase 0.7%

(against Retail Price Index of 4.7%, so employees in all sectors of the economy are earning less than last year in real terms....)

FTSE Top 100 Directors? 55% increase in wages last year.
(across the FTSE Top 350, Directors pay went up 45%.

Does anyone still think we're 'all in it together'?:rolleyes:

There's a couple of things at play here at least.

Firstly non-executive directors are as a result of recent governance reviews are having to give far more of a time commitment and are having to be paid more to cover it and also there is an increase in committees that they have to be part of like risk committees or remuneration committees and they get paid for those too.

Secondly, particularly in banks, there will be a rebalance away from certain other types of awards to basic salary.

It's a very few highly skilled and highly paid set of people, good luck to them. We shouldn't stop companies and individuals trying to be succesful.

[Wembley67]

There's a couple of things at play here at least.

Firstly non-executive directors are as a result of recent governance reviews are having to give far more of a time commitment and are having to be paid more to cover it and also there is an increase in committees that they have to be part of like risk committees or remuneration committees and they get paid for those too.

Secondly, particularly in banks, there will be a rebalance away from certain other types of awards to basic salary.

It's a very few highly skilled and highly paid set of people, good luck to them. We shouldn't stop companies and individuals trying to be succesful.

Totally agree, let the highly skilled individuals get what they deserve. Crikey, i'll be getting a large bonus and a substantial pay increase to also take into account the vat rise this year and for what we do compared to other 'office workers' I would say we do deserve it!

We are a private company and have outperformed our benchmark consistently every year since I started, the clients are happy so the workers should be rewarded how the partnership deems fit.

[Big Ed]

Of course there is a number of reasons Germany has maintained it’s ability to move forward but I can assure you the main driver underpinning it has been the fact that their economies competitiveness if high compared to it’s main trading partners, Germany had a prolonged period where wage growth was restrained and it is this that has allowed them to (largely) export their way to health.

I'll be interested to see which of our industries will export our way to health. Traditionally Germany does well with manufacturing; we have most recently gone in for financial services.
Recently the financial services sector has hit a blip, but the Government has given them a couple of bob and imposed strict new regulations to ensure that this mild abberation doesn't happen again.
Oh wait...that last bit is bollocks.

[Speedy]

There's a couple of things at play here at least.

Firstly non-executive directors are as a result of recent governance reviews are having to give far more of a time commitment and are having to be paid more to cover it and also there is an increase in committees that they have to be part of like risk committees or remuneration committees and they get paid for those too.

Secondly, particularly in banks, there will be a rebalance away from certain other types of awards to basic salary.

It's a very few highly skilled and highly paid set of people, good luck to them. We shouldn't stop companies and individuals trying to be succesful.

:agree:

That's a good point. While NEDs (always makes me chuckle :greengrin) don't get paid massive amounts, they obviously will be getting paid and the FTSE 350 figures quoted in the article are for "total board pay" rather than individual salary/bonus rises.