pressure group

[King Paddy]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

[500miles]

.......Aye, we should have kept players that didn't want to be here. First, it was proven that long contracts are worth **** ALL by Webster, and secondly, they would always be tempted by bigger wages outwith what we could afford. So that's the "Awww, they pure sold aw ur playurrs to line thier pokets" pish out the window. Keeping much longer would have been pointless.

Secondly, we have funded Collins, Mixu and Yogi to the tune of around £1m each. Collins found that he wasn't cut out for long term managerial work, Mixu done fine, but fan pressure - which is now more influencial than ever - forced the board to give him a shove. As for Yogi, it's clear what his plan was now - 16 players running down contracts - ranging from poor to replacable - and he has been proven right. This season was a waiting game.

Calderwood? He's inherited a poisoned chalice, in a job which he has the credentials for, but he can't really be judged until he get's his own players in.

Unless some sugar-daddy wants to invest millions, then things won't change at Hibs. And furthermore, I would be suspicious of anyone that does.

We've set up so that we can grow organically, that means we are subject to the usual cyclical nature of Scottish Football.

[Bonnyrigg H.F.C]

The booing from the stand week in week out has had little affect. I think we need to really stand up and let them know what we feel. Pressure group, maybe not (yet) but some form of demo to start with would be good. Outside the west before the game Wednesday?? I think it is something we should push for.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

People only boo what is on offer. If there was no need to boo, fans wouldn't boo.

I'm not for booing individual players, like Colin Nish, or example, but if the players haven't performed to expectations, in such a demand culture, then they must accept some criticism IMO.

[Albion Hibs]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

"culprits" - you have posted am embarrassing thread and you should be ashamed of yourself.

To describe Sir Tom and Rod as culprits is nothing short of disrespectful.

Have a word with yourself, take what members of your fan club you can find and do one.

[CB_NO3]

I for one would be happy to see Farmer and Petrie go. Ok we are a well run business but we are also one of the biggest under achievers in the country. Two good seasons every 10 year is not good enough for a club like Hibs. I feel we should be top 6 every season at least. Thats not much to ask for when you have teams like Hamilton, St Mirren and St Johnstone in the league. No disrespect to these clubs but we should be beating these teams on a regular basis.

Am maybe getting away from the original point a bit here but something has to change.

[Albion Hibs]

I for one would be happy to see Farmer and Petrie go. Ok we are a well run business but we are also one of the biggest under achievers in the country. Two good seasons every 10 year is not good enough for a club like Hibs. I feel we should be top 6 every season at least. Thats not much to ask for when you have teams like Hamilton, St Mirren and St Johnstone in the league. No disrespect to these clubs but we should be beating these teams on a regular basis.

Am maybe getting away from the original point a bit here but something has to change.


Key phrase in bold - without Rob and Sir Tom we would not be the club we are, think about it. You are in support of an embarrassing section of our fans if that is your view.

You say you think we should be top six every season, but your view can surely not be reflective of the majority of hibs fans, as we finished 4th last year and then sacked our manager.

So I put it to you, what do you want?

A financially secure club with good facilities, both training and fan based is not good enough, neither is 4th, so what do you want.

[IWasThere2016]

Key phrase in bold - without Rob and Sir Tom we would not be the club we are, think about it. You are in support of an embarrassing section of our fans if that is your view.

You say you think we should be top six every season, but your view can surely not be reflective of the majority of hibs fans, as we finished 4th last year and then sacked our manager.

So I put it to you, what do you want?

A financially secure club with good facilities, both training and fan based is not good enough, neither is 4th, so what do you want.

Freudian slip with 'Rob' there? :wink:

And please don't think we sacked Yogi for finishing 4th ..

As for what else we might want - what about everything that's missing just now:

Passion
Width
Goals
Entertainment
Effort
Flare
Good Football
Composure on the ball
Value for money
Passing

As for 'financially secure' I am curious about how many more seasons of £2m losses you think we can afford? Please bear in mind we've hee-haw else to sell going forward - eg nae car-parks, or players likely to command a decent fee - before replying.

[hibee_nation]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

Why don't you send an open letter to the board, works well for the yams. :rolleyes:

[Kaiser1962]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

Who got relegated in 96? Wasnt us ya yam fud.

[DarlingtonHibee]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

Funny haw Mr Kennedy has had 20 year's to buy Hibs, but nothing has (or ever will) happen - it's called publicity.

Sir Tom will only ever sell his share if he is totally convinced that it is in the long term intrest of the club - he won't come back and sort out another mess.

There is frustration at present, but blaming STF or Rod will not solve the problem - every other SPL club would bite our hand off for STF, and or Rod.

Pressure groups are not the answer's - however, if you have £30- 40 million, and a sound business plan, I'm sure STF will agree to meet you.

[hibiedude]

pressure groups are not the answer but the board have to state what direction the club is taking because building the new stand was to increase revenue at the club but we are going the other way fans are staying away in numbers because the product on the field is very poor.

Are we a club the will continue to sell our best assests to Celtic and Rangers or do we have ambitions of our own.

Petrie has to explain to the fans what the hell is going on at the club or their will be a lot less fans turning up on matchdays.

[7Hero]

Freudian slip with 'Rob' there? :wink:

And please don't think we sacked Yogi for finishing 4th ..

As for what else we might want - what about everything that's missing just now:

Passion
Width
Goals
Entertainment
Effort
Flare
Good Football
Composure on the ball
Value for money
Passing

As for 'financially secure' I am curious about how many more seasons of £2m losses you think we can afford? Please bear in mind we've hee-haw else to sell going forward - eg nae car-parks, or players likely to command a decent fee - before replying.

Couldn't agree more...

Farmer though must also shoulder some blame, just because he "saved the club" doesn't mean he should escape criticism.

[7Hero]

Who got relegated in 96? Wasnt us ya yam fud.

:rolleyes:

[DarlingtonHibee]

pressure groups are not the answer but the board have to state what direction the club is taking because building the new stand was to increase revenue at the club but we are going the other way fans are staying away in numbers because the product on the field is very poor.

Are we a club the will continue to sell our best assests to Celtic and Rangers or do we have ambitions of our own.

Petrie has to explain to the fans what the hell is going on at the club or their will be a lot less fans turning up on matchdays.

I believe the main driver for building the East was the deal they were offered from Hall Construction.

The second reason was to attract other games at Easter Road to increase revenue.

Finally, now it's built, the ground will see us through for 50 year's plus, the primary focus should be on the product, and I believe that is the stratgey / vision for the club.

I agree that the current product is simply not good enough, but we need to give the manager TIME.

With regards to the Old Firm, that will not change, and is the same for every other SPL club, regrettably it is simple economics, however what you can do is ensure top dollar for your player's, something that Hibs have done very well.

The Stokes deal looks cheap, but there were contractural issues, and also no one at Hibs (manager or board level) stopped him leaving - read into that what you wish....

[hibiedude]

I believe the main driver for building the East was the deal they were offered from Hall Construction.

The second reason was to attract other games at Easter Road to increase revenue.

Finally, now it's built, the ground will see us through for 50 year's plus, the primary focus should be on the product, and I believe that is the stratgey / vision for the club.

I agree that the current product is simply not good enough, but we need to give the manager TIME.

With regards to the Old Firm, that will not change, and is the same for every other SPL club, regrettably it is simple economics, however what you can do is ensure top dollar for your player's, something that Hibs have done very well.

The Stokes deal looks cheap, but there were contractural issues, and also no one at Hibs (manager or board level) stopped him leaving - read into that what you wish....

I know the manager needs TIME but the fans need answers- week in week out things are getting worse- don't you think Petrie needs to explain why we have quickly gone downhill over the last couple of seasons football is ALL about product on the field and results THATS what keeps the money coming in to every club up and down the country.

[Kaiser1962]

I also understand that planning permission was due to expire and that it was less likely that another application would have been granted due to the flats being built.

Plus if we started a "pressure group" every time our team was sheeyte it would be a permanent fixture.

And my comment to the OP was because he a) couldn't spell the players names b) was so upset about our relegation that he got the year wrong and, finally, c) Brian Kennedy was certainly no white knight and STF's judgement was proved to be sound

However if I am wrong and he is not indeed a yam fud, then consider the comment (about being a yam fud) retracted.


I believe the main driver for building the East was the deal they were offered from Hall Construction.

The second reason was to attract other games at Easter Road to increase revenue.

Finally, now it's built, the ground will see us through for 50 year's plus, the primary focus should be on the product, and I believe that is the stratgey / vision for the club.

I agree that the current product is simply not good enough, but we need to give the manager TIME.

With regards to the Old Firm, that will not change, and is the same for every other SPL club, regrettably it is simple economics, however what you can do is ensure top dollar for your player's, something that Hibs have done very well.

The Stokes deal looks cheap, but there were contractural issues, and also no one at Hibs (manager or board level) stopped him leaving - read into that what you wish....

[IWasThere2016]

I believe the main driver for building the East was the deal they were offered from Hall Construction.

The second reason was to attract other games at Easter Road to increase revenue.

Finally, now it's built, the ground will see us through for 50 year's plus, the primary focus should be on the product, and I believe that is the stratgey / vision for the club.

I agree that the current product is simply not good enough, but we need to give the manager TIME.

With regards to the Old Firm, that will not change, and is the same for every other SPL club, regrettably it is simple economics, however what you can do is ensure top dollar for your player's, something that Hibs have done very well.

The Stokes deal looks cheap, but there were contractural issues, and also no one at Hibs (manager or board level) stopped him leaving - read into that what you wish....

If the ground's to last 50 years why not fund it over the long term? Why fund it in the short term with the receipts from player sales going into the infrastructure - and not more into the team? We're now short of cash when we arguably need it most. The neglect of the team has resulted in poor sides and poor football for too long - and will impact on attendances. We now have an underlying and recurring loss of c£2m - that's 5,000 STs @ £400 a go .. How on earth do the Board think they'll achieve that with the current team? Or indeed with a new team next season?

The solution now lies in new capital investment IMHO - with either new ownership or a dilution of the current ownership. Otherwise we face a long haul with many seasons like the last few ..

[Albion Hibs]

Freudian slip with 'Rob' there? :wink:

And please don't think we sacked Yogi for finishing 4th ..

As for what else we might want - what about everything that's missing just now:

Passion
Width
Goals
Entertainment
Effort
Flare
Good Football
Composure on the ball
Value for money
Passing

As for 'financially secure' I am curious about how many more seasons of £2m losses you think we can afford? Please bear in mind we've hee-haw else to sell going forward - eg nae car-parks, or players likely to command a decent fee - before replying.

It is the section of our support like you who just want everything now. The new training centre kept you entertained for 5 mins, the new stand probably about 4 mins, getting managers out the new door and finding a new one about 3 mins, and now this. Sometimes these things take time, but as a support you, like I, will not stop supporting hibs or heading along at the weekend.

With regards to your financially secure statement I feel you are kind of backing up what I am saying, you reference this £2m and at the same time want someone who will come in and chuck money at new players wages etc. What do you think that £2m number will be then? Are you advocating ending up in a financial hole like the hertz, is that more like what you are after from hibs?

Sir Tom and Rod have done a great deal for the club, one of which is probably working hard right now to ensure we have one or two players coming in January.

Your pressure group would have the focus of what - focusing on Sir Tom putting the club up for sale - tell me during the tail end of a recession who do you think would even have half an interest in buying hibs......maybe you should think about setting up a pressure group to bully someone into buying the club.

[IWasThere2016]

It is the section of our support like you who just want everything now. The new training centre kept you entertained for 5 mins, the new stand probably about 4 mins, getting managers out the new door and finding a new one about 3 mins, and now this. Sometimes these things take time, but as a support you, like I, will not stop supporting hibs or heading along at the weekend.

With regards to your financially secure statement I feel you are kind of backing up what I am saying, you reference this £2m and at the same time want someone who will come in and chuck money at new players wages etc. What do you think that £2m number will be then? Are you advocating ending up in a financial hole like the hertz, is that more like what you are after from hibs?

Sir Tom and Rod have done a great deal for the club, one of which is probably working hard right now to ensure we have one or two players coming in January.

Your pressure group would have the focus of what - focusing on Sir Tom putting the club up for sale - tell me during the tail end of a recession who do you think would even have half an interest in buying hibs......maybe you should think about setting up a pressure group to bully someone into buying the club.

:faf: Aye I want it now - did you not read the statement about funding the infrastructure over the long term?

FTR, I didn't want the East, and questioned the amount of spend on East Mains also.

It has gone too far when there's nothing on the park, and we're near propping up the league. We're like TESCO building a new store, and having nowt on the shelves for the punters!

If the Board were mindful of the recession why build capacity into the ground when there's no demand and indeed it is likely to fall during a recession? Why take on additional debt/cost at the same time?
Finally, where did you see me calling for or backing a pressure group?

[darwenhibby]

I know the manager needs TIME but the fans need answers- week in week out things are getting worse- don't you think Petrie needs to explain why we have quickly gone downhill over the last couple of seasons football is ALL about product on the field and results THATS what keeps the money coming in to every club up and down the country.

Careful what you wish for.

Look at what has happened with the Venky's. The whole of Blackburn is in turmoil Now.

I have said for years on here that we need to get the infastructure correct first.
This will probably be the first transfer window were we have no other issues to deal with other than improve the team. Is January the right time to do this.

Stabilise in Jan spend in the summer.

[Jamesie]

The booing from the stand week in week out has had little affect. I think we need to really stand up and let them know what we feel. Pressure group, maybe not (yet) but some form of demo to start with would be good. Outside the west before the game Wednesday?? I think it is something we should push for.

Personally I would find that a wee bit embarrassing and an insult to the good that Petrie and Farmer have done at Easter Road over the last 20 years. Let's leave demos outside the ground to the Jambos and others who have real reason to demonstrate.

[Hibbyradge]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

"All" they have done?

Where did the profits from the asset stripping go?

[Hibbyradge]

If the Board were mindful of the recession why build capacity into the ground when there's no demand and indeed it is likely to fall during a recession? Why take on additional debt/cost at the same time?


1. The planning permission was about to expire.

2. We got the stand built for several million pounds less than had we built it out of recession.

[IWasThere2016]

1. The planning permission was about to expire.

2. We got the stand built for several million pounds less than had we built it out of recession.

True D - but why the need? And why not finance it over the long term - that it needs to serve us over? Why spend the cash we have (had)? If we borrow to trade out of this slump it'll cost us much more than long term debt.. Also didn't we just need to start the work by a certain date, and not complete? Anyway its done ..

I'm interested in what's going to happen going forward .. We are not in as good a position as some (many) believe IMHO

[The Green Man]

"All" they have done?

Where did the profits from the asset stripping go?

I don't really know, but thought they went into the infrastructure.

I agree that this is pretty dire and something has gone badly wrong to allow us to get into this position in terms of the quality of the team. However I do think the board have set there stall out to create a good infrastructure that would make the club more attractive to a potential buyer. This has meant a gamble in terms of allowing the team to take a hit. This worked well under Mowbray, a bit lucky with good young players and a manager they responded well to, we've not been so lucky since. I hope that Jan/Summer rebuilding will bring about the changes that we are all hoping for. CC is struggling at the moment and I've no idea if he has what it takes, was pretty disapointed with Hughes appointment as never felt he had what it takes, so I don't have total faith in the boards ability to appoint the right man, this season is got to be seen as a write off though. We need to stabilise and get as good a finish as possible. I'm looking for 2 or 3 signings to give us some oomph in jan and expect to see signs of improvement from now until the end of the season. Come summer I would hope we have some momentum to build a new team for next season. If the improvement isn't happening then maybe we have to start asking if we have the right people in charge; I think the board have had a good plan in place to give us a future, but it needs to get the team right now or risk loosing alot of fans for good and that would be damaging in it's self. The plan seems clear enough to me and there has been more investment in the team recently, so I think it is too early to talk about demos etc; again I don't know how the club suppoter relationship works, but is there not a more contructive way of making a protest that doesn't make us look like yams?

[Vini1875]

"All" they have done?

Where did the profits from the asset stripping go?
It paid the debt off and our ongoing losses. I think we are in a similiar situation to the one Bobby Williamson inherited. What CC has to do is get rid of the deadwood and play the young boys. I know many say it is unfair to throw them into a situation like this but our journeymen/experienced pros are not doing the job. I think Hibs fans will support a team of younger guys who are really trying and it will make men out of some of them. No one will convince me that the likes of Kurtis Byrne would be any worse than Nish or Trackys.

I would be happy with two good signings and another 4 young players who have been on loan add to that Zemmama and Duffy. As they come in then some that are not performing and have no future at the club can go.

[Hibbyradge]

True D - but why the need? And why not finance it over the long term - that it needs to serve us over? Why spend the cash we have (had)? If we borrow to trade out of this slump it'll cost us much more than long term debt.. Also didn't we just need to start the work by a certain date, and not complete? Anyway its done ..

I'm interested in what's going to happen going forward .. We are not in as good a position as some (many) believe IMHO

The need? If you had been to the East Stand recently, you'd know what the need was! It was an absolute dump and an embarrassment, imo.

Long term financing may have been an option, but it would have saddled us with long term interest payments and have cost us much, much more.

Most people would pay their mortgage off early if they could for the same reason.

I think it would be foolish to make financial decisions based on the possible fortunes on the the pitch.

For example, at the start of last year, we were threatening to split the Old Firm. This year we're threatening to go down.

We could have invested all the stand money on the team and still not have been further up the table.

We already spend more on our squad than most.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I am totally confused with all of this now.

I think that like a lot of fans, on Friday afternoon I can see that there is a long term strategy and that there is a real chance that in 5 years time the club will be in a position to really spend on the team.

By 5pm on a Saturday I am bricking it for the future of H.F.C. coz the ever increasing prospect of relegation leaves me asking " how will the club start making enough money to put into the team with a decrease in ST holders, 1st division gates and no T.V. money.

That is why STF and The Tache need to see that getting at least 3 decent players in this January is going to be vital for the long term prospects of this club.

By the way ... I for one dont subscribe to the ' no one will buy or put money into a club in a recession ' theory.

The mega rich never seem to be affected by these sort of times and I cant help but think that the failure to find real outside investment over the last 20 years is more down to a lack of a desire to give up control by the current owners and directors of Hibs.

Dont tell me that some mega rich ego maniac wouldnt be interested in not just changing the history of one club by investing £300,000,000 E.G. in the EPL. When by spending £50,000,000 or less he could change the history of a whole league and make headlines all over the sporting world at the same time.

Anybody who could break the OF monopoly would do just that.

[Albion Hibs]

:faf: Aye I want it now - did you not read the statement about funding the infrastructure over the long term?

FTR, I didn't want the East, and questioned the amount of spend on East Mains also.

It has gone too far when there's nothing on the park, and we're near propping up the league. We're like TESCO building a new store, and having nowt on the shelves for the punters!

If the Board were mindful of the recession why build capacity into the ground when there's no demand and indeed it is likely to fall during a recession? Why take on additional debt/cost at the same time?
Finally, where did you see me calling for or backing a pressure group?

The reason for building the stadium was both obvious and explained. It represented value for money.

As for why take on addtional debt/cost at the same time - this is what you are advocating, someone to throw money about.

As for your final point, your post is called pressure group, and you are advocating two men that have built our club leaving.

You have failed to answer my questions, if you could get famer to sell - for your own reasons - who would you pressure into buying?

[IWasThere2016]

The reason for building the stadium was both obvious and explained. It represented value for money.

As for why take on addtional debt/cost at the same time - this is what you are advocating, someone to throw money about.

As for your final point, your post is called pressure group, and you are advocating two men that have built our club leaving.

You have failed to answer my questions, if you could get famer to sell - for your own reasons - who would you pressure into buying?

I'm not advocating for STF leave nor pressurising anyone into buying - try reading my posts again :wink:

[IWasThere2016]

Albion - you also didn't my question about how many years of £2m losses? :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

As Brian Kennedy said when Farmer about turned on selling The club to him a fish stinks from the top down. In other words Pressure should now be applied on the real culprits Petrie/Farmer. All they have done over the the last 14 years is asset strip the football team. Thomson, Brown, whittiker, O'conner the list is endless. As a member of the last group HOH i urge the fans to activate now before relegation. Farmer and his regime relegated us in 96 with petrie, we can't allow them to wreck our beloved club yet again. It's time to sell up Farmer and take your accountant with you.

:hmmm:

Yeah, I really regret the fact that Kennedy didn't take over Hibs. Farmer and that have sold all our best players and left us nothing to remember them by other than Franck Sauzee, a 6-2 win over Hearts, 3-0 drubbings of the Huns, a training complex, a completed stadium, a CIS Cup triumph, the odd sojourn into Europe.

On the other hand if we'd gone for Kennedy, we would be in the final stages of the Champions League, good good pals with the likes of Arsenal and Barcelona, the only team to consistently split the OF, and Scottish Cup winners 10 times in a row.

One last thing, do you think if we'd got Kennedy, we'd still be fighting the Taliban? I'm with you, we really need big talking visionaries to run the club.

(I made some of this up).

[IWasThere2016]

:hmmm:

Yeah, I really regret the fact that Kennedy didn't take over Hibs. Farmer and that have sold all our best players and left us nothing to remember them by other than Franck Sauzee, a 6-2 win over Hearts, 3-0 drubbings of the Huns, a training complex, a completed stadium, a CIS Cup triumph, the odd sojourn into Europe.

On the other hand if we'd gone for Kennedy, we would be in the final stages of the Champions League, good good pals with the likes of Arsenal and Barcelona, the only team to consistently split the OF, and Scottish Cup winners 10 times in a row.

One last thing, do you think if we'd got Kennedy, we'd still be fighting the Taliban? I'm with you, we really need big talking visionaries to run the club.

(I made some of this up).

:greengrin

Is Kennedy still involved with the Northampton Saints?

[whiskyhibby]

This thread is the most insane piece of nonsense on here for a long while and has a rather Maroon smell to it........................................:stirrer :

[Phil D. Rolls]

This thread is the most insane piece of nonsense on here for a long while and has a rather Maroon smell to it........................................:stirrer :

:hmmm: I just thought the guy was an idiot, surely there can't be more to it? Any Yam would know that pressure groups, open letters and Russian hats can only lead to one thing. Squillions of debt, a dilapidated stadium, regular sojourns into the bottom six, no real challenge to the OF and a tendency to exaggerate past achievements.

OK that's more than one thing. I don't think King Paddy is a Yam, I just think he's a very naughty boy.

[J-C]

Now, I wouldn't as far to say that Farmer and Petrie are culprits, far from it, they have written off a lot of debt, provided us with a superb training complex and a new stand. I's fair to say we are one of the healthiest clubs in Scotland, money wise but surely now that all this has been achieved they owner and board now have to start looking at taking this once proud club back to near the top where it belongs.

Now I'm not for having an over inflated wage budget to take us back into severe debt but surely a small loosening of certain strings to allow us to attain a few fairly decent pro's who can achieve a hellova a lot more than this bunch of dross.

As an erlier poster said we've not been lucky with recent managers, fan pressure etc but also mentioned was the fact that so many players are coming to the end of their contracts, therein lies the problem, allowing managers year in year out to buy and place under contract players of substandard quality, to such an extent that we have a squad so devolved of talent and guts it's cost us dearly in money and fan expectations.

We have now a superb 20,000 seat stadium but unless we get a team that fill that, then we have poured money down the spout, if we are only getting average gates of 11,000 then we will never bring in the players we deserve and so fill in the blank spaces in said stadium, all a vicious circle.

Obvious answer is, bring in good/decent/better players, have some ambition, not just balancing the books, this will bring back the crowds and show healthier profits.

[IWasThere2016]

Now, I wouldn't as far to say that Farmer and Petrie are culprits, far from it, they have written off a lot of debt, provided us with a superb training complex and a new stand. I's fair to say we are one of the healthiest clubs in Scotland, money wise but surely now that all this has been achieved they owner and board now have to start looking at taking this once proud club back to near the top where it belongs.

Now I'm not for having an over inflated wage budget to take us back into severe debt but surely a small loosening of certain strings to allow us to attain a few fairly decent pro's who can achieve a hellova a lot more than this bunch of dross.

As an erlier poster said we've not been lucky with recent managers, fan pressure etc but also mentioned was the fact that so many players are coming to the end of their contracts, therein lies the problem, allowing managers year in year out to buy and place under contract players of substandard quality, to such an extent that we have a squad so devolved of talent and guts it's cost us dearly in money and fan expectations.

We have now a superb 20,000 seat stadium but unless we get a team that fill that, then we have poured money down the spout, if we are only getting average gates of 11,000 then we will never bring in the players we deserve and so fill in the blank spaces in said stadium, all a vicious circle.

Obvious answer is, bring in good/decent/better players, have some ambition, not just balancing the books, this will bring back the crowds and show healthier profits.

And that would have been easier if we'd less debt/more cash and had taken a proper and sound long term approach to funding the infrastructure :wink:

[aberhibsfc]

:greengrin

Is Kennedy still involved with the Northampton Saints?

Yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9302779.stm

Page last updated at 19:31 GMT, Monday, 20 December 2010

'Brian Kennedy has been the owner for a good few years now and at one point a few seasons ago I thought Sale had turned the corner, winning the title in 2006 and qualifying for Europe, but nothing more materialised. I'm sure Kennedy has a vision of where Sale need to be, he has to select the right people to do it.'

[CB_NO3]

Ill give credit where its due to Farmer and Petrie for getting the debt down but they cant take all the credit. We got a bit luck that we had some great young players coming through the ranks. We will never get a group of young players like that again for another 30 years. I would happily go into more debt to get a good team on the park. Its not hard to get a good team in a Micky Mouse league like the SPL, look at Hearts they have managed it over the last year. If we did go into more debt (am talking 2 to 3 million) we will still be better off than the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United. At the end of the day we are a football team, not a business.

I think the board need to communicate with the fans more if this is to work. Do they have a 5 year plan?, if so what is it?, they need to communicate with the fans if they want people to pay £400 to watch probably the worst Hibs team in 20 year.

[Kaiser1962]

Ill give credit where its due to Farmer and Petrie for getting the debt down but they cant take all the credit. We got a bit luck that we had some great young players coming through the ranks. We will never get a group of young players like that again for another 30 years. I would happily go into more debt to get a good team on the park. Its not hard to get a good team in a Micky Mouse league like the SPL, look at Hearts they have managed it over the last year. If we did go into more debt (am talking 2 to 3 million) we will still be better off than the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United. At the end of the day we are a football team, not a business.

I think the board need to communicate with the fans more if this is to work. Do they have a 5 year plan?, if so what is it?, they need to communicate with the fans if they want people to pay £400 to watch probably the worst Hibs team in 20 year.

But without the business side there would be no football team.

[J-C]

Is there a problem with the Hibs scouting system then, because most of the so called lesser teams in the SPL seem to pick up wee gems before the start of every season......Rooney( ICT )......Ermalenko ( Killie )...... Hasselbaink/paixao twins( Hamilton )......Duberry/Morris ( St J )......Dorman( recently st mirren )

We get O'Brian, Kerr, HKT, Donaldson etc

[Jack]

IMO the STF 'takeover' has been one of the few successful takeovers of history.

Football here and elsewhere is littered with clubs that have gone from bad to worse or are on the brink.

While STF has made it clear any sale would be to the right people we've also seen promises made at point of sale mean SFA.

Many of us lived through a period of seemingly endless sales of the club which nearly saw our demise. I'd fear for the future for any sale.

Maybe not endless but none did us any good - except one!

[Phil D. Rolls]

See this pressure group? Are you willing to publish your names and addresses, and get your pictures in the paper so that we'll know who you are and where to find you when we are £40m in debt and still without anything to show for it?

[Devine]

IS a pressure group the right answer? Probably not right now but I'm sure Mixu, JC and Yogi will all tell you off the record that Petrie did not support them in what they wanted to do at ER. Its pretty obvious that Yogi wanted rid of a fair chunk of the players as 16 out of contract tells its own story.

Rod and co should come out and tell us truthfully what the vision is for Hibernian over the next 1-2 years. If its survival and hope for the best on a budget of peanuts, sell our best players asap and dont reinvest even a fraction of whats coming in so the club survives then great. But I wont be back until the philosophy changes and Im sure I wont be alone which will leave a big 20k seater stadium less than half empty.

What was the point in building that stand unless we had REAL ambition to push on and challenge consistently at the top end of the table. Great business sense from Rod that one!

[Phil D. Rolls]

IS a pressure group the right answer? Probably not right now but I'm sure Mixu, JC and Yogi will all tell you off the record that Petrie did not support them in what they wanted to do at ER. Its pretty obvious that Yogi wanted rid of a fair chunk of the players as 16 out of contract tells its own story.

Rod and co should come out and tell us truthfully what the vision is for Hibernian over the next 1-2 years. If its survival and hope for the best on a budget of peanuts, sell our best players asap and dont reinvest even a fraction of whats coming in so the club survives then great. But I wont be back until the philosophy changes and Im sure I wont be alone which will leave a big 20k seater stadium less than half empty.

What was the point in building that stand unless we had REAL ambition to push on and challenge consistently at the top end of the table. Great business sense from Rod that one!

The stand has been open less than 6 months. What sort of period do you measure REAL ambition over, and what is it anyway?

[Dr Jimmy]

See this pressure group? Are you willing to publish your names and addresses, and get your pictures in the paper so that we'll know who you are and where to find you when we are £40m in debt and still without anything to show for it?

Over my time on .net I have read your posts and I am coming to the conclusion that you are either
1. Rod Petrie
2. A member of the Hibs board
3. Very scared of change.

Things are crappy just now and if it continues action may be the only answer!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Over my time on .net I have read your posts and I am coming to the conclusion that you are either
1. Rod Petrie
2. A me

I am not Rod Petrie and I don't know what a me is, is it a note that follows Ray?

[Dr Jimmy]

I am not Rod Petrie and I don't know what a me is, is it a note that follows Ray?

See the edit

[Devine]

The stand has been open less than 6 months. What sort of period do you measure REAL ambition over, and what is it anyway?

To build a team with a budget that reflects our status in the SPL i.e. better facilities, bigger stadium and bigger support than at least 8 other teams in the SPL, replace the players we sell with signings that excite the fans by reinvesting a portion of the money we bring/have brought in.

We dont have that at the moment we havent reinvested adequately and we are a total shambles Rod has to take a good bit of the blame for that. If you think we are showing the right amount of ambition great our expectations are different

[Kaiser1962]

Over my time on .net I have read your posts and I am coming to the conclusion that you are either
1. Rod Petrie
2. A member of the Hibs board
3. Very scared of change.

Things are crappy just now and if it continues action may be the only answer!

Perhaps he's watched his club nearly go to wall too many times by "investing" in dud players or "speculating to accumulate".

I know I have.

[Dr Jimmy]

Perhaps he's watched his club nearly go to wall too many times by "investing" in dud players or "speculating to accumulate".

I know I have.

Why is there never a middle ground in this argument?
Also what great marketing initiatives are our board involved with to maximize revenues outfit the turnstiles? The corp part of the stand is half empty every week, suggesting there is no demand or the pricing is wrong.
Their business plan appears to be sell any player they can whilst hoping for a win on the lottery.
I have also been through the dark days and don't want them to return, but I am not happy to accept mediocrity for ever.

[ginger_rice]

Dont tell me that some mega rich ego maniac wouldnt be interested in not just changing the history of one club by investing £300,000,000 E.G. in the EPL. When by spending £50,000,000 or less he could change the history of a whole league and make headlines all over the sporting world at the same time.

Anybody who could break the OF monopoly would do just that.

Aye but there's only room for one deluded Lithuanian in Scottish football :wink:

[Kaiser1962]

Why is there never a middle ground in this argument?
Also what great marketing initiatives are our board involved with to maximize revenues outfit the turnstiles? The corp part of the stand is half empty every week, suggesting there is no demand or the pricing is wrong.
Their business plan appears to be sell any player they can whilst hoping for a win on the lottery.
I have also been through the dark days and don't want them to return, but I am not happy to accept mediocrity for ever.

This utter nonsense is regurgitated repeatedly and I ask you what would you do with players who clearly dont want to stay at the club?
As soon as someone does well, player or manager, they will attract attention from elsewhere who are in a position to offer them life changing amounts of money and this will continue to happen.

[Phil D. Rolls]

See the edit

Yes, I'm afraid of change. I just can't see how it can result in this utopia that so many seem to think they can achieve.


To build a team with a budget that reflects our status in the SPL i.e. better facilities, bigger stadium and bigger support than at least 8 other teams in the SPL, replace the players we sell with signings that excite the fans by reinvesting a portion of the money we bring/have brought in.

We dont have that at the moment we havent reinvested adequately and we are a total shambles Rod has to take a good bit of the blame for that. If you think we are showing the right amount of ambition great our expectations are different

Chelsea are about the only team I can think of who have managed to up their status in the game by pouring money into the club. I can think of many many teams from Gretna, and Livi through to Dundee and the Yams, who have speculated on some fantasy that they can magic up a club that will consistently deliver success.

I would say a dispassionate look at Hibernian's history would suggest that we are pretty much where we have always been - a club that has 2 or 3 good seasons, goes through a transition for another 6 or 7, before starting to gain momentum again.

Our days of success in Europe go back to an age when the likes of Glentoran were regular competitors in the later stages. We haven't put in a serious challenge for the league since the 70s and have always had one of the better supports amongst the makeweights in our football (anyone who is not the OF).

What bothers me about this desire for change is that there is a poor explanation of what we are to change to, and even less detail on how it will happen.

I accept that there has been a few poor decisions on managers, but would the fans have done any better. Yogi was the messiah for some, and we know how that panned out. Would we have accepted Owen Coyle five years ago and how much time would he have been given?

Fact is that a lot of fans don't have the patience, or intelligence to sit through the ups and downs of a tight match, let alone have the ability to take a step back and accept that it doesn't always go the way they want over a season or more.

They certainly don't have the information or skill to run a football club, and I venture they would be shafted good and proper by the hard noses in the game if they ever tried to.

[Dr Jimmy]

To come out with your last two paragraphs with unbelievable generalizations and to question fans intelligence is arrogant beyond words.
I obviously have a different view of my club than you do and will never accept that we are there to make up the numbers.
Anyway I hope 2011 is better than 2010 GGTH.

[Phil D. Rolls]

To come out with your last two paragraphs with unbelievable generalizations and to question fans intelligence is arrogant beyond words.
I obviously have a different view of my club than you do and will never accept that we are there to make up the numbers.
Anyway I hope 2011 is better than 2010 GGTH.

History will tell. It would be arrogant to question the fans' intelligence without evidence that, time and time again, fans' groups get way beyond their place in the scheme of things, and almost always make things worse at a club.

By the way it is not your club, it is everyone's club, and that means there are many different points of view amongst fans. I also hope we turn the corner soon, and that the good times come back.

[hibee bouncer]

Sir Tom & Rod :not worth

Would rather have these 2 guys at the helm than someone like Romanov! Say no more.

[mickki40]

I love forums, such diversity in opinions. Here's mine. I will support hibs regardless of the results on the park, just the same as you all. I did not renew my season ticket for this season as a result of the dire football we were/are playing. CC needs time to bring in new players and get rid of what is in my opinion, a very bad team. We do have capable players in this team but the bad are dragging down the good. I think if CC was to have any type of success here he really needs to wield the hatchet sooner rather than later. I believe we will come good in time with CC but until then I will be happy this season to avoid relegation and maybe scrape top six as a bonus. Longer term plans need to be communicated to the fans via the forums, so fans can see what the future holds for Hibs. If people are not happy with the situation on the park they can always withold paying for a season ticket next year. That way RP etc are hit where it hurts them...not the team.

[jon paul jones]

I am totally confused with all of this now.

I think that like a lot of fans, on Friday afternoon I can see that there is a long term strategy and that there is a real chance that in 5 years time the club will be in a position to really spend on the team.

By 5pm on a Saturday I am bricking it for the future of H.F.C. coz the ever increasing prospect of relegation leaves me asking " how will the club start making enough money to put into the team with a decrease in ST holders, 1st division gates and no T.V. money.

That is why STF and The Tache need to see that getting at least 3 decent players in this January is going to be vital for the long term prospects of this club.

By the way ... I for one dont subscribe to the ' no one will buy or put money into a club in a recession ' theory.

The mega rich never seem to be affected by these sort of times and I cant help but think that the failure to find real outside investment over the last 20 years is more down to a lack of a desire to give up control by the current owners and directors of Hibs.

Dont tell me that some mega rich ego maniac wouldnt be interested in not just changing the history of one club by investing £300,000,000 E.G. in the EPL. When by spending £50,000,000 or less he could change the history of a whole league and make headlines all over the sporting world at the same time.

Anybody who could break the OF monopoly would do just that.

Interesting chat, Bovril. You see wealthy businessesmen getting into football but i never saw Hibs going down this road before you mentioned it. Its a very good marker in this debate.

I'll remember your words.