"Christmas is evil"

[Sir David Gray]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

[Dashing Bob S]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

Christianity and Islam are exactly the same nonsense. The difference is that one has had about 500 years more than the other to edit out most of its inherent, twisted, evil, noxious practices. While the lunatics do hold a lot of sway in Islam, they still have huge influence in the christian world, ie: the Pope and his AIDS-spreading paedo-defending tranny brethern.

[Big Ed]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

You need to get over yourself.

Whoever is behind this stuff, whether it be one individual or a group, are nutters and that is all you need to know. If it were a nation's Government Policy I could see why you'd get wound up; but it isn't.

[(((Fergus)))]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

I hear what you are saying, however, apart from the relatives of 7/7 - and I know a couple who lost a son - and our armed forces in Afghanistan, these clowns do not really have much effect on our lives. If and when they do, there are plenty of people ready to give them a taste of their own medicine. The British are a very phlegmatic nation and will take a huge amount of BS before reacting, however they will react eventually, of that I have no doubt.

[Woody1985]

Take away the link FH as it will generate more hits for the pathetic **** site and they'll think they're spreading their 'message' = 'Hatred'.

Fannies, the lot of them.


I hear what you are saying, however, apart from the relatives of 7/7 - and I know a couple who lost a son - and our armed forces in Afghanistan, these clowns do not really have much effect on our lives. If and when they do, there are plenty of people ready to give them a taste of their own medicine. The British are a very phlegmatic nation and will take a huge amount of BS before reacting, however they will react eventually, of that I have no doubt.

So do you just let **** like this ****** until it causes civil war / acts of violence?

[hibsbollah]

If you are concerned about the purity of the Christian message at Christmas, I would have thought you'd be more outraged at the fact Xmas is essentially a pagan festival (Christmas Trees, Boughs of Holly) that has been approbriated by the Cult of Global Consumption, overeating and binge drinking, and its links with Christianity in contemporary British culture have been almost totally obliterated.

Your concern about the usual handful of Islamic nutters, who are probably working hand in hand with the EDL and similar white fascists and who dont have any significant support, is out of all perspective with the threat they pose to your way of life.

[Hibbyradge]

Christmas is indeed evil.

I'm so glad it's over.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:yawn: I heard that they have banned Christmas in Dundee, or was that last year?

Most of the Muslims I know wished me a merry Xmas and were looking forward to being at home with their families when work finished. Stories like the OP are not a reflection of what life is like in modern Britain, and tend to be put about by people who have never seen a Muslim, let alone met one. (I know FH is not that type, and that isn't aimed at him).

FWIW I would ban Christmas too, but I'm just a moaning faced get who thinks that the true spirit of it has been lost in a celebration of greed and self love.

[Woody1985]

I'm wrecked, just got in from going out yesterday, thanks pagan/Christian loons.

[marinello59]

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

.

Down with this type of thing.:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Down with this type of thing.:agree:

Careful now. :agree:

[HibeeEmma]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

Let's remember this is a minority group with radical views. Many (and i'd think most) muslims out there may not celebrate christmas but take part in the festive fun for example the kids attend pantos with school.

There are so often "radical" groups who stand up and oppose certain religious or political views, and Muslims are commonly associated with terrorism or extremism but those who take part in these are a small group in comparison to the wider society.

[tony higgins]

Take it the guys in the OP must have some Scottish connections.

Christmas only became an official holiday here in 1958.

Kafflick thing you see.......................

[hibsdaft]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

Hook, line and sinker.

Without folk like you these pathetic *******s would get no publicity at all.

[lyonhibs]

Hook, line and sinker.

Without folk like you these pathetic *******s would get no publicity at all.

:agree::agree:

Also, who can spot the usual FH assertions that such-and-such "is" happening, despite there being no concrete evidence to back this up.

[Woody1985]

Hook, line and sinker.

Without folk like you these pathetic *******s would get no publicity at all.

You're right, we should have ignored the other Nazi's and they'd have just gone away.

[hibsdaft]

You're right, we should have ignored the other Nazi's and they'd have just gone away.

no. what i'm saying is we don't get drawn into debating the merits of the wind-up propaganda of a hundred (max) freaks and allow them to set the agenda.

this is how these far-right extremists grow. and I agree that that's what they are btw.

[hibsbollah]

no. what i'm saying is we don't get drawn into debating the merits of the wind-up propaganda of a hundred (max) freaks and allow them to set the agenda.

this is how these far-right extremists grow. and I agree that that's what they are btw.

:agree: There were only 35 people on the (poppy burning) Islam Against Crusades protests, and the Met have already said there is evidence that the people involved had links to the EDL. Despite this, the Telegraph and the Mail keep referring to nutters like this as some sort of significant movement, and FH swallows it. The Xmas is Evil website is so bad its funny, but they do have a point about modern Christmas being the antithesis of what 'christianity' is supposed to be about, which i referred to earlier.

[Beefster]

Christmas is ****ing evil. Not a single soul bought me the waders or the BigTrak that I wanted.

[Bishop Hibee]

Whatever happened to the guy who used to stand at The Mound before Christmas with the "For Santa read Satan" placard? Rabid protestant fundamentalist who was fine chatting to me at first but started frothing at the mouth when I told him I was an RC :greengrin He wasn't so 'christian' towards me after that!

[Bad Martini]

Whatever happened to the guy who used to stand at The Mound before Christmas with the "For Santa read Satan" placard? Rabid protestant fundamentalist who was fine chatting to me at first but started frothing at the mouth when I told him I was an RC :greengrin He wasn't so 'christian' towards me after that!

Was he smoking a pipe an called Donald or Don to his pals? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Whatever happened to the guy who used to stand at The Mound before Christmas with the "For Santa read Satan" placard? Rabid protestant fundamentalist who was fine chatting to me at first but started frothing at the mouth when I told him I was an RC :greengrin He wasn't so 'christian' towards me after that!

I'm sure you've gotten used to this reaction in the years since. :greengrin (I read the Catholic Herald and know all about the oppression of RCs)

Are we talking about Alan MacDonald, aka God's Bagpiper? Nowadays the council would be charging money to see that guy.

[IndieHibby]

Don't take this the wrong way, FH, but there is a spectrum with xmas is evil at one end and some of your views on the other. (not that you are a 'violent' extremist, I must say)

For most people, it's two sides of the same coin.

Just the way I see it....

You seem like an intelligent guy, whose view on subjects like this is coloured by your own literal interpration of abrahamic religion.

It's really best to ignore these nutters. Any one who takes them seriously is part of the problem....

[--------]

I'm sure you've gotten used to this reaction in the years since. :greengrin (I read the Catholic Herald and know all about the oppression of RCs)

Are we talking about Alan MacDonald, aka God's Bagpiper? Nowadays the council would be charging money to see that guy.



If he's the same guy I used to see down there, he died a few years ago.

I believe he was a Tiree man originally. About the same position theologically as Jack Glass, IIRC.

[Greentinted]

If he's the same guy I used to see down there, he died a few years ago.

I believe he was a Tiree man originally. About the same position theologically as Jack Glass, IIRC.

So fairly flexible and progressive then? :cool2:

[Mibbes Aye]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

Just to put this into context, isn't it also your opinion that the nation of Israel will convert to Christianity just in time for the Second Coming of Christ?

And that there will be a Great Tribulation and the likes of muslims and non-believers will suffer plagues and attacks by locusts etc etc?

Fair enough if that's your belief. But it makes it hard to see you as objective when you're commenting on things like this.

And if you've got this idea that we're all predestined as well, then it makes me wonder why you bother posting things like this in the first place?

[CropleyWasGod]

If he's the same guy I used to see down there, he died a few years ago.

I believe he was a Tiree man originally. About the same position theologically as Jack Glass, IIRC.

He's been dead a while, Doddie.

As I recall, he was supposedly one of Edinburgh's "characters". My opinion of him changed one day when, as a busload of Rangers supporters crawled along Princes Street, he struck up The Sash on the pipes. :rolleyes:

[--------]

So fairly flexible and progressive then? :cool2:


:agree: And about as flexible and progressive as the present Pope, yes. :wink:



He's been dead a while, Doddie.

As I recall, he was supposedly one of Edinburgh's "characters". My opinion of him changed one day when, as a busload of Rangers supporters crawled along Princes Street, he struck up The Sash on the pipes. :rolleyes:

Scotland has far too many "characters" like him for my liking. "Bampot", more like.

As for the OP, the one thought I have is that supposing a small but extremely conservative fundamentalist Christian group had posted in similar tone regarding Muslim festivals leading to crime, immorality, paedophilia, etc - don't you think it would have been all over the newspapers and media? And wouldn't at least a few of the usual suspects on this and other forums have been falling over themselves to ascribe similar opinions to ALL Christians - including FH and myself?

I've just finished reading Adrian Weale's "The SS - A New History", and I come away with the same feeling I have every time I read an account of the events surrounding and involved with the rise of the Third Reich - there are no beliefs so nasty that people won't subscribe to them, no hatred too vile but people won't embrace it, and no one so moral or righteous that he or she is immune to the most appalling bigotry and prejudice.

Tonight, I feel a wee bit like a member of a threatened minority, actually... :rolleyes:

[Mibbes Aye]

:agree: And about as flexible and progressive as the present Pope, yes. :wink:




Scotland has far too many "characters" like him for my liking. "Bampot", more like.

As for the OP, the one thought I have is that supposing a small but extremely conservative fundamentalist Christian group had posted in similar tone regarding Muslim festivals leading to crime, immorality, paedophilia, etc - don't you think it would have been all over the newspapers and media? And wouldn't at least a few of the usual suspects on this and other forums have been falling over themselves to ascribe similar opinions to ALL Christians - including FH and myself?

I've just finished reading Adrian Weale's "The SS - A New History", and I come away with the same feeling I have every time I read an account of the events surrounding and involved with the rise of the Third Reich - there are no beliefs so nasty that people won't subscribe to them, no hatred too vile but people won't embrace it, and no one so moral or righteous that he or she is immune to the most appalling bigotry and prejudice.

Tonight, I feel a wee bit like a member of a threatened minority, actually... :rolleyes:

Typical bloody Protestantism. When will it cease? :greengrin




(Joking aside, it's a good and fair post :agree:)

[--------]

Typical bloody Protestantism. When will it cease? :greengrin

I don't consider myself a "Protestant", MA - not first and foremost. "Christian" is the term I prefer, as do most of my friends and co-believers.

Not perfect by any means - just a poor weary pilgrim struggling up the narrow path to the promised land. :greengrin

(Joking aside, it's a good and fair post :agree:)


I have a number of friends in Tiree who knew the piper chappie - their general opinion was that he wasn't a bad lad altogether, just not more than ten pence in the old shilling.... :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

I read a couple of days ago about a banned radical Muslim group that had put up dozens of posters around the London area, warning people of the dangers of Christmas and that Islam is the only way to solve the problems that are caused by Christmas.

On the homepage of their website (xmasisevil) they have a sign saying "Beware, Xmas is the path to hellfire".

As far as this group is concerned, the problems caused by Christmas include teenage pregnancy, paedophilia and claiming God has a son.

Let me just tackle each of these issues, one-by-one;

Teenage pregnancy-Considering the fact that the teenage pregnancy rates in Saudi Arabia, Niger and Indonesia (all overwhelmingly Muslim majority nations) have figures that absolutely dwarf the rates in the UK, forgive me if I choose not to take a lecture on this issue from this particular group.

Paedophilia-This claim is so unbelievable, I don't know where to begin. But, again, since the main figure in the Islamic religion married a girl of six years old and was having a sexual relationship with her by the time she was nine, perhaps this group should look a little closer to home when trying to tackle this issue.

Claims that God has a son-This is the one that really angers me as this is the main part of the Christian faith. I'm not asking anyone to agree with this belief, but for this group to list this as one of the "evils of Christmas" is just disgusting. It is the whole point of Christmas!

If someone came out with a similar campaign during Eid or Ramadan, denouncing beliefs that were central to the Muslim faith, or (God forbid) dared to criticise Muhammad, we would currently be seeing mass demonstrations in every city centre in the country and, in Muslim states across Asia and Africa, we would be seeing British flags getting burned and "death to the UK" being chanted. If citizens in any of those countries had dared to do such a thing, they would have been hanged/beheaded by now.

It really worries me to see incidents like this go widely unreported in the mainstream press and that the majority of people don't see what is going on here.

It should be noted that I am well aware that a vast amount of British Muslims are happy to embrace Christmas and have no problems in sending and receiving gifts and Christmas cards to neighbours and friends.

However, there is a worryingly growing number of young Muslims in this country who are following the likes of Anjem Choudary, who claims that it is forbidden by Allah for any Muslim to acknowledge Christmas in any way, shape or form and that it is evil. These people want things to be done the Islamic way or no way at all. There is no room for compromise, as far as they are concerned and if they don't get their way then God help anyone that stands in their way.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised since we had a situation not so long ago where Glasgow City Council were helping to fund the desecration of a copy of the Bible, people were urged to write vulgar comments inside it "in the name of art". Of course, this would never have happened with the Qur'an and if someone had done this to a copy of the Qur'an, they would have been arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Things will only get worse as far as this type of thing is concerned.

Here is the link (http://www.xmasisevil.com/index2.php) to this website.

All religions that claim to be the true religion are evil!

[--------]

All religions that claim to be the true religion are evil!


So any religion that starts off by claiming to be all made up and a complete con-trick is OK?

:cool2:

[Sir David Gray]

Christianity and Islam are exactly the same nonsense. The difference is that one has had about 500 years more than the other to edit out most of its inherent, twisted, evil, noxious practices. While the lunatics do hold a lot of sway in Islam, they still have huge influence in the christian world, ie: the Pope and his AIDS-spreading paedo-defending tranny brethern.

I know your views on religion and you are at least consistent in your dislike of all organised religion so that's fair enough.

What I disagree with totally is the first line in your post. Christianity and Islam couldn't be more different if they tried.

Yes there's extremist Christians going about but no Christian country has a legal system that makes it a capital offence for one of its citizens to leave Christianity and adhere to another religion. No Christian country makes it illegal for anyone to criticise Jesus or restricts the freedom of non-Christians to practice their religious beliefs in public. Also I'm not aware of any Christian groups going around calling for Eid or Ramadan to be banned in a predominantly Muslim country. Anyone accused of something like this would be promptly dealt with, according to Sharia Law.

The same, unfortunately, cannot be said of Islam. In countless Muslim majority nations, Christians are persecuted and murdered on a regular basis and are not free to practice their faith. Quite often this is done by the authorities in those countries but even when the authorities aren't responsible for the actual attacks, they turn a blind eye to it.

You only have to look at a few recent examples to see that.

Only last week there were a series of bomb attacks in Iraq, targeting the Christian community in the country. Despite his many undoubted flaws, Iraqi Christians were actually quite safe under Saddam Hussein. The Iraq war in 2003 led to the presence of al Qaeda and other such groups and since then, attacks on the Christians in Iraq have grown and continue to do so. This has, in turn, led to Christians leaving Iraq in their thousands and those that remain continue to be in grave danger.

In Egypt on New Year's Day, a bomb attack on a church murdered 23 Coptic Christians in the country. Although they have a significant presence in Egypt, the government requires Coptic Christians to obtain permission before they can build any churches in the country. There are also examples of women of the Coptic faith, in Egypt, who have been abducted, forced to convert to Islam and then marry a Muslim man.

In Pakistan, there is a Christian woman who is due to be executed for making "insulting comments" about Mohammad. Since the sentence was announced, thousands of Muslims in the country have staged protests at attempts to overturn her sentence and have openly stated that if she is pardoned, they will carry out the execution themselves and that she will never be free.

One man, a senior member of Pakistan's ruling party, decided to stick up for this woman and criticised Pakistan's controversial blasphemy laws (which makes it a crime, punishable by death, to insult Mohammad).

The result: The man was murdered earlier today after being shot nine times.

Of course, we're also still getting attacks on European countries in response to the newspaper cartoons that depicted Mohammad, about five years ago. A couple of weeks ago, there was a bomb attack in Stockholm. The man responsible lived in the UK for almost a decade and had come to the attention of the Muslim community in Luton a few years ago for his extreme views.

Those examples are all from the past month alone.

You might be against all kinds of religion, which is a view that you are quite entitled to hold, but to say that Christianity and Islam are "exactly the same" is simply not true.


You need to get over yourself.

Whoever is behind this stuff, whether it be one individual or a group, are nutters and that is all you need to know. If it were a nation's Government Policy I could see why you'd get wound up; but it isn't.

In addition to my response above to Dashing Bob S, this particular campaign may not be government policy in a particular country but there are numerous examples of Muslim majority nations where Christians are not free to practice their faith or celebrate their festivals such as Christmas or Easter.

Pakistan
Sudan
Somalia
Bangladesh
Oman
Yemen
Libya
Algeria
Morocco
Tunisia
Egypt
Mauritania
Nigeria
Brunei
Indonesia
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Malaysia

Just some of the countries that have legal systems in place that allow for discrimination and persecution of their Christian communities. Christmas celebrations in those countries, if they're not completely banned outright, will be heavily restricted and Christians celebrating Christmas in those nations routinely experience attacks.

Although the UK is not a Muslim majority nation, I think we are getting closer to the stage where the extremists in the towns and cities of England in particular will be exerting their influence. There are countries that I have highlighted above, such as Nigeria, where followers of Islam and Christianity are fairly split in terms of numbers, but in the regions that are overwhelmingly Muslim (in the north of the country) Sharia Law is implemented and Christian festivals are outlawed.

Due to the growing number of extremist Muslims in places like certain areas of London, I can realistically see a time coming where the local communities in those places will not allow Christmas or Easter to be celebrated in any way and anyone who chooses to go against that will be punished.

The sad thing is, as I have already pointed out, is that a vast number of Muslims in this country have no problems in embracing Christmas and have no problems in going Christmas shopping with their non-Muslim friends and sending and receiving Christmas cards. The problem actually comes, not from the moderate Muslims in the UK, but from the atheists in the local authorities, who choose to limit the amount of Christmas celebrations that they put up, in case they offend non-Christians. The situation suits the extremists but it angers the rest of the Muslim community as they have stated on countless occasions that they are not offended in any way, shape or form, by Christmas.


:agree::agree:

Also, who can spot the usual FH assertions that such-and-such "is" happening, despite there being no concrete evidence to back this up.

The persecution of Christians is happening in this country and I have given several examples to back up the claims. The example of the desecration of the Bible being funded by public money, for one. If you think for one minute that the Qur'an would be disrespected in the same way, using public money, then you are very much mistaken.

Islam has a huge militant element to it that does not accept any way of life that differs to its own. They even attack and murder other Muslims who they deem not to be true believers. They rule by the sword and when a number of extremist Muslims settle in a particular area, which is what we are seeing now in parts of England, that is when the problems start. If you are not prepared to accept their point of view, or criticise their beliefs or way of life, they are quite prepared to kill and maim to put their point across.

I realise that most people do not believe me when I say things like this but it is true and if you wait 20 or 30 years, you might start to actually see things for yourself that will make you realise that what I am saying just now is spot on.

Anyone who has seen my posts on here on this subject will realise that Muslims in this country, who are law abiding citizens, never have and never will be the target in any of my posts. I realise that there are many good Muslims living right across the UK (and indeed, right across the world as well) who do not accept the radical element to their faith but the fact remains that there is a radical and extremely dangerous element to Islam and it is a growing presence in this country. It is something that is not going to go away either.

[lapsedhibee]

The persecution of Christians is happening in this country and I have given several examples to back up the claims. The example of the desecration of the Bible being funded by public money, for one.

Can't see any connection whatsoever between stuffing the pages of a bible into your bra (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6723980.ece), on the one hand, and persecution of Christians, on the other.

Mark of a sturdy faith, I'd have said, if it can cope, as seems to have happened in this case, with people calling it a loadypish. Hardly constitutes a pogrom.

Local authorities bending over backwards to assist certain minority groups is a difficult issue. But it's more than 20 years since a minority group in this country got away with chanting that Salman Rushdie should be killed, and wir civilisation hasn't noticeably fallen apart in the interim. Maybe it can cope with nutters letting out hot air.

[hibsbollah]

Although the UK is not a Muslim majority nation, I think we are getting closer to the stage where the extremists in the towns and cities of England in particular will be exerting their influence. There are countries that I have highlighted above, such as Nigeria, where followers of Islam and Christianity are fairly split in terms of numbers, but in the regions that are overwhelmingly Muslim (in the north of the country) Sharia Law is implemented and Christian festivals are outlawed.

Due to the growing number of extremist Muslims in places like certain areas of London, I can realistically see a time coming where the local communities in those places will not allow Christmas or Easter to be celebrated in any way and anyone who chooses to go against that will be punished.

The sad thing is, as I have already pointed out, is that a vast number of Muslims in this country have no problems in embracing Christmas and have no problems in going Christmas shopping with their non-Muslim friends and sending and receiving Christmas cards. The problem actually comes, not from the moderate Muslims in the UK, but from the atheists in the local authorities, who choose to limit the amount of Christmas celebrations that they put up, in case they offend non-Christians. The situation suits the extremists but it angers the rest of the Muslim community as they have stated on countless occasions that they are not offended in any way, shape or form, by Christmas.


Islam has a huge militant element to it that does not accept any way of life that differs to its own. They even attack and murder other Muslims who they deem not to be true believers. They rule by the sword and when a number of extremist Muslims settle in a particular area, which is what we are seeing now in parts of England, that is when the problems start. If you are not prepared to accept their point of view, or criticise their beliefs or way of life, they are quite prepared to kill and maim to put their point across.

I realise that most people do not believe me when I say things like this but it is true and if you wait 20 or 30 years, you might start to actually see things for yourself that will make you realise that what I am saying just now is spot on.

Anyone who has seen my posts on here on this subject will realise that Muslims in this country, who are law abiding citizens, never have and never will be the target in any of my posts. I realise that there are many good Muslims living right across the UK (and indeed, right across the world as well) who do not accept the radical element to their faith but the fact remains that there is a radical and extremely dangerous element to Islam and it is a growing presence in this country. It is something that is not going to go away either.

The usual unsubstantiated nonsense, for the most part.

Christians, muslims, zen buddhists and every religious group you can think of is subject to persecution and attack from time to time. I suppose the bombings in Egypt are convenient for someone such as yourself who seeks to portray Chistianity as a religion under attack from Islam. You seem to miss the essential point that radical Islam uses exactly the same rationale for their radicalism; and in that respect you are just as much a fundamentalist as any hook-handed jihadist preaching on a street in Finsbury Park.

When you cant justify your claims you add things like 'i can see the time coming when' and 'we see things like this every day'. Your constant need to 'balance' your posts with something along the lines of 'of course, there are some good muslims out there as well' (who presumably put out the bunting on the queens birthday and tug the forelock to empire as well:rolleyes:), just makes you look like a bigot. A well-meaning, slightly paranoid bigot perhaps, but a bigot nontheless.

[geordie_hibs]

"Stay out of churches son; all they got is the key to the ****house" - William S Burroughs "Place of Dead Roads"

[Bad Martini]

So any religion that starts off by claiming to be all made up and a complete con-trick is OK?

:cool2:

That would be an ecumenical matter :greengrin

:devil:

[--------]

That would be an ecumenical matter :greengrin

:devil:

Down with this sort of thing! :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Down with this sort of thing! :rolleyes:

Careful now! :tsk tsk:

[Big Ed]

Due to the growing number of extremist Muslims in places like certain areas of London, I can realistically see a time coming where the local communities in those places will not allow Christmas or Easter to be celebrated in any way and anyone who chooses to go against that will be punished.

Can you really:rolleyes:
Your hysterical paranoia is starting to grate with me.
Bad people do bad things. People use religion to mask any number of sins. It happens all the time: even Peter Sutcliffe blamed God.
He got the jail and if someone from another religion uses that religion as a basis to commit a crime; then they should get the jail too.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Can you really:rolleyes:
Your hysterical paranoia is starting to grate with me.
Bad people do bad things. People use religion to mask any number of sins. It happens all the time: even Peter Sutcliffe blamed God.
He got the jail and if someone from another religion uses that religion as a basis to commit a crime; then they should get the jail too.

Peter Sutcliffe was/is insane, so what he did and didn't say has no place in a rational argument iMO.

[Big Ed]

Peter Sutcliffe was/is insane, so what he did and didn't say has no place in a rational argument iMO.

The facetious nature of the reference to Sutcliffe was deliberate.

[discman]

Peter Sutcliffe was/is insane, so what he did and didn't say has no place in a rational argument iMO.


A bit indecision going on rolls? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

The facetious nature of the reference to Sutcliffe was deliberate.

Sorry, humour bypass on my part.


A bit indecision going on rolls? :greengrin

Sanity comes and goes (in my case anyway). In Sutcliffe's case, he was deemed sane enough to stand trial, sent to a normal prison. Yet within two years, doctors then admitted that he was mad after all. It's never clear cut, and I don't know what his current mental state is.

[Betty Boop]

Sorry, humour bypass on my part.



Sanity comes and goes (in my case anyway). In Sutcliffe's case, he was deemed sane enough to stand trial, sent to a normal prison. Yet within two years, doctors then admitted that he was mad after all. It's never clear cut, and I don't know what his current mental state is.

I am assuming he is still regarded as insane, he is still in Broadmoor.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I am assuming he is still regarded as insane, he is still in Broadmoor.

I think his team are trying to say he has been well for long enough that the risk of a recurrence of the symptoms is minimal.

[lapsedhibee]

I think his team are trying to say he has been well for long enough that the risk of a recurrence of the symptoms is minimal.

If there's any chance whatsoever of recurrence, it would be those arguing for release/relaxation of security/whatever that would be needing their sanity examined.

[--------]

I think his team are trying to say he has been well for long enough that the risk of a recurrence of the symptoms is minimal.


It's not a matter of whether he'll do it again. For what he's already done he should never be free again.

In fact, Sutcliffe is one murderer whose hanging would have been entirely justifiable at the time of his conviction.

[Killiehibbie]

Christmas is indeed evil if credit card statement received this morning is anything to go by.

[Dashing Bob S]

I know your views on religion and you are at least consistent in your dislike of all organised religion so that's fair enough.

What I disagree with totally is the first line in your post. Christianity and Islam couldn't be more different if they tried.

Yes there's extremist Christians going about but no Christian country has a legal system that makes it a capital offence for one of its citizens to leave Christianity and adhere to another religion. No Christian country makes it illegal for anyone to criticise Jesus or restricts the freedom of non-Christians to practice their religious beliefs in public. Also I'm not aware of any Christian groups going around calling for Eid or Ramadan to be banned in a predominantly Muslim country. Anyone accused of something like this would be promptly dealt with, according to Sharia Law.

The same, unfortunately, cannot be said of Islam. In countless Muslim majority nations, Christians are persecuted and murdered on a regular basis and are not free to practice their faith. Quite often this is done by the authorities in those countries but even when the authorities aren't responsible for the actual attacks, they turn a blind eye to it.

You only have to look at a few recent examples to see that.

Only last week there were a series of bomb attacks in Iraq, targeting the Christian community in the country. Despite his many undoubted flaws, Iraqi Christians were actually quite safe under Saddam Hussein. The Iraq war in 2003 led to the presence of al Qaeda and other such groups and since then, attacks on the Christians in Iraq have grown and continue to do so. This has, in turn, led to Christians leaving Iraq in their thousands and those that remain continue to be in grave danger.

In Egypt on New Year's Day, a bomb attack on a church murdered 23 Coptic Christians in the country. Although they have a significant presence in Egypt, the government requires Coptic Christians to obtain permission before they can build any churches in the country. There are also examples of women of the Coptic faith, in Egypt, who have been abducted, forced to convert to Islam and then marry a Muslim man.

In Pakistan, there is a Christian woman who is due to be executed for making "insulting comments" about Mohammad. Since the sentence was announced, thousands of Muslims in the country have staged protests at attempts to overturn her sentence and have openly stated that if she is pardoned, they will carry out the execution themselves and that she will never be free.

One man, a senior member of Pakistan's ruling party, decided to stick up for this woman and criticised Pakistan's controversial blasphemy laws (which makes it a crime, punishable by death, to insult Mohammad).

The result: The man was murdered earlier today after being shot nine times.

Of course, we're also still getting attacks on European countries in response to the newspaper cartoons that depicted Mohammad, about five years ago. A couple of weeks ago, there was a bomb attack in Stockholm. The man responsible lived in the UK for almost a decade and had come to the attention of the Muslim community in Luton a few years ago for his extreme views.

Those examples are all from the past month alone.

You might be against all kinds of religion, which is a view that you are quite entitled to hold, but to say that Christianity and Islam are "exactly the same" is simply not true.



In addition to my response above to Dashing Bob S, this particular campaign may not be government policy in a particular country but there are numerous examples of Muslim majority nations where Christians are not free to practice their faith or celebrate their festivals such as Christmas or Easter.

Pakistan
Sudan
Somalia
Bangladesh
Oman
Yemen
Libya
Algeria
Morocco
Tunisia
Egypt
Mauritania
Nigeria
Brunei
Indonesia
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Malaysia

Just some of the countries that have legal systems in place that allow for discrimination and persecution of their Christian communities. Christmas celebrations in those countries, if they're not completely banned outright, will be heavily restricted and Christians celebrating Christmas in those nations routinely experience attacks.

Although the UK is not a Muslim majority nation, I think we are getting closer to the stage where the extremists in the towns and cities of England in particular will be exerting their influence. There are countries that I have highlighted above, such as Nigeria, where followers of Islam and Christianity are fairly split in terms of numbers, but in the regions that are overwhelmingly Muslim (in the north of the country) Sharia Law is implemented and Christian festivals are outlawed.

Due to the growing number of extremist Muslims in places like certain areas of London, I can realistically see a time coming where the local communities in those places will not allow Christmas or Easter to be celebrated in any way and anyone who chooses to go against that will be punished.

The sad thing is, as I have already pointed out, is that a vast number of Muslims in this country have no problems in embracing Christmas and have no problems in going Christmas shopping with their non-Muslim friends and sending and receiving Christmas cards. The problem actually comes, not from the moderate Muslims in the UK, but from the atheists in the local authorities, who choose to limit the amount of Christmas celebrations that they put up, in case they offend non-Christians. The situation suits the extremists but it angers the rest of the Muslim community as they have stated on countless occasions that they are not offended in any way, shape or form, by Christmas.



The persecution of Christians is happening in this country and I have given several examples to back up the claims. The example of the desecration of the Bible being funded by public money, for one. If you think for one minute that the Qur'an would be disrespected in the same way, using public money, then you are very much mistaken.

Islam has a huge militant element to it that does not accept any way of life that differs to its own. They even attack and murder other Muslims who they deem not to be true believers. They rule by the sword and when a number of extremist Muslims settle in a particular area, which is what we are seeing now in parts of England, that is when the problems start. If you are not prepared to accept their point of view, or criticise their beliefs or way of life, they are quite prepared to kill and maim to put their point across.

I realise that most people do not believe me when I say things like this but it is true and if you wait 20 or 30 years, you might start to actually see things for yourself that will make you realise that what I am saying just now is spot on.

Anyone who has seen my posts on here on this subject will realise that Muslims in this country, who are law abiding citizens, never have and never will be the target in any of my posts. I realise that there are many good Muslims living right across the UK (and indeed, right across the world as well) who do not accept the radical element to their faith but the fact remains that there is a radical and extremely dangerous element to Islam and it is a growing presence in this country. It is something that is not going to go away either.

I didn't expect you to agree with the first line, but try reading the second line again, then think what the Christian world was like pre 600 years ago with Crusades, inquistions etc.

All religions get to their 'diet' phase where they accommodate the modern (secular) world and use their doctrines less as that, and more as a general moral inspiration to do and be good - even if this is more often than not shrouded in hypocrisy. The nutters that don't do this, whether its the Christian right in America, or the Islamic fundamentalists, behave in exactly the same way. That there are more of them in the Islamic world, or that that they have seized control of state apparatus in some countries (as have the Zionists in Israel) is usually something the Christian fundamentalists jealously lament, wishing they had had been able to do the same.

Put simply, the fundamentalists of each religion; Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Islamic, are all exactly the same. They are they true face of organised religion. They are only divided by timelines and their reluctant accommodation with the secular world.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's not a matter of whether he'll do it again. For what he's already done he should never be free again.

In fact, Sutcliffe is one murderer whose hanging would have been entirely justifiable at the time of his conviction.

I'd tend to agree he should never be released.

At the same time the question has to be asked, was he responsible for his actions? :tin hat:

[steakbake]

Put simply, the fundamentalists of each religion; Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Islamic, are all exactly the same. They are they true face of organised religion. They are only divided by timelines and their reluctant accommodation with the secular world.

They also all believe in their own sky wizards and have their own magic books.

[--------]

I'd tend to agree he should never be released.

At the same time the question has to be asked, was he responsible for his actions? :tin hat:


Actually, he pled 'Not Guilty' to murder, but 'Guilty' to manslaughter on grounds of diminished responsibility. He claimed to have heard the voice of God telling him to kill the women. the judge seems to have gone into the matter of his insanity quite deeply, and rejected the idea.

We COULD assume that the killer of one woman's just bad and should be punished, while the killer of a dozen or more is mad and needs treatment so that he can be released back into the community when his psychiatrist decides he's all well and won't ever do it again. On that basis serial killers would never be convicted....

It's a question that frequently exercises my mind, just where the line lies between badness or evil and madness... And whether some forms of madness are the consequences of a person making the choice past to embrace a course of action that he/she knows will injure and destroy other people.


Of course, I'm not really connected to the real world, FR. I'm a Christian believer.... :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Actually, he pled 'Not Guilty' to murder, but 'Guilty' to manslaughter on grounds of diminished responsibility. He claimed to have heard the voice of God telling him to kill the women. the judge seems to have gone into the matter of his insanity quite deeply, and rejected the idea.

We COULD assume that the killer of one woman's just bad and should be punished, while the killer of a dozen or more is mad and needs treatment so that he can be released back into the community when his psychiatrist decides he's all well and won't ever do it again. On that basis serial killers would never be convicted....

It's a question that frequently exercises my mind, just where the line lies between badness or evil and madness... And whether some forms of madness are the consequences of a person making the choice past to embrace a course of action that he/she knows will injure and destroy other people.


Of course, I'm not really connected to the real world, FR. I'm a Christian believer.... :rolleyes:

On the mad or bad thing. What troubles me is that, whether he knew what he was doing or not - I tend to believe the people who said he was insane when he did it - he had the opportunity to turn himself in when he was well.

That said, the evidence at the trial tended to support the insanity argument, and it is notable that he was committed to Broadmoor once he was inside and showing the same symptoms that had been dismissed at the trial.

Just another example of how "justice" works to fit what the people want.

[--------]

On the mad or bad thing. What troubles me is that, whether he knew what he was doing or not - I tend to believe the people who said he was insane when he did it - he had the opportunity to turn himself in when he was well.

That said, the evidence at the trial tended to support the insanity argument, and it is notable that he was committed to Broadmoor once he was inside and showing the same symptoms that had been dismissed at the trial.

Just another example of how "justice" works to fit what the people want.



:agree: I don't suppose I would really go after his blood, FR, but I see no reason whay he should be released into the community. It wouldn't be those who signed the release forms who would be at risk if the psychiatrists got it wrong.

[Hibrandenburg]

So any religion that starts off by claiming to be all made up and a complete con-trick is OK?

:cool2:

Name one!

[Woody1985]

Name one!

Scientology.

[--------]

Scientology.

No - that's a con=trick right enough, but the true believers believe it to be true.

L. Ron Hubbard said so. :agree: