Why is it?

[richard_pitts]

A number of things have been bugging me of late:

Mixu was deemed not to be good enough and his style of football and tactics inadequate. However, on less of a budget he has a team sitting 8 points and four places above us that whacked Fartz 3-0 at Tinny. Oh, and they're playing nice football. How come he didn't do that at Hibs? Did we give him enough time?

Colin Nish came with a good reputation and a strong track record, yet is deemed not good enough and appears to be the latest in a line of players not performing to anything like their potential or to what they have done elsewhere. John Collins is worthy of a thread on his own.

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs. :confused:

[Heckys Wheel]

A number of things have been bugging me of late:

Mixu was deemed not to be good enough and his style of football and tactics inadequate. However, on less of a budget he has a team sitting 8 points and four places above us that whacked Fartz 3-0 at Tinny. Oh, and they're playing nice football. How come he didn't do that at Hibs? Did we give him enough time?

Colin Nish came with a good reputation and a strong track record, yet is deemed not good enough and appears to be the latest in a line of players not performing to anything like their potential or to what they have done elsewhere. John Collins is worthy of a thread on his own.

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs. :confused:

1 word mate. Relativity.

Mixu has taken Kilmarnock to 5th place. Joint fifth with the team in 6th.

Where did he take us?

Only difference is that Killie are creaming themselves and we offered out dogs abuse to the Hibs legend.

Colin Nish's strong reputation and good track record came from KILLIE. Where he netted 10-15 goals each season and was a mainstay in the team.

Again, Killie fans accepted this with open arms while we dish out dogs abuse to the staunch Hibs fan.

Do we set our sights too high? Are the fans too quick get on our guys back?

Probably and probably. But if we won't accept 5th and 6th place finishes and 10-15 goals from our strikers, we can't cream ourselves at Killie doing it either.

[Andy74]

1 word mate. Relativity.

Mixu has taken Kilmarnock to 5th place. Joint fifth with the team in 6th.

Where did he take us?

Only difference is that Killie are creaming themselves and we offered out dogs abuse to the Hibs legend.

Colin Nish's strong reputation and good track record came from KILLIE. Where he netted 10-15 goals each season and was a mainstay in the team.

Again, Killie fans accepted this with open arms while we dish out dogs abuse to the staunch Hibs fan.

Do we set our sights too high? Are the fans too quick get on our guys back?

Probably and probably. But if we won't accept 5th and 6th place finishes and 10-15 goals from our strikers, we can't cream ourselves at Killie doing it either.

We can when they do it with income of about a third of ours can't we?

[Hamish]

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs.

Good question, don't have an answer though. Beginning to think that your last sentence may not be that far off the mark

[Andy74]

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs.

Good question, don't have an answer though. Beginning to think that your last sentence may not be that far off the mark

We don't have the patience to allow deep rooted and long term change.

We've just lost faith in a guy who had us 2nd or 3rd for 7 months then had 4 to 5 bad months amid injuries, the East stand being ripped out and then finally a key player being sold.

We don't really know the causes of the things we see but we make pretty deep judgements then look for things to back that up.

One day we might just let someone be trusted enough to see out everyting he needs to do but I doubt it.

[Hamish]

We don't have the patience to allow deep rooted and long term change.

We've just lost faith in a guy who had us 2nd or 3rd for 7 months then had 4 to 5 bad months amid injuries, the East stand being ripped out and then finally a key player being sold.

We don't really know the causes of the things we see but we make pretty deep judgements then look for things to back that up.

One day we might just let someone be trusted enough to see out everyting he needs to do but I doubt it.

No disagreement from me on your points Andy. You are correct that the last point will not/would not happen

[Craig_in_Prague]

We don't have the patience to allow deep rooted and long term change.

We've just lost faith in a guy who had us 2nd or 3rd for 7 months then had 4 to 5 bad months amid injuries, the East stand being ripped out and then finally a key player being sold.

We don't really know the causes of the things we see but we make pretty deep judgements then look for things to back that up.

One day we might just let someone be trusted enough to see out everyting he needs to do but I doubt it.

We have been rotten since xmas last year.

not quite 4 or 5 months!

otherwise hard to agrue with your points.

It was just very clear Yogi couldn't motivate the team or organise them as much as we needed. Dreadful in most derbies, 'that' game at fir park, pathetic displays at hamilton, in perth and many other away grounds. He knew we were a soft touch before taken over, yet didn't really improve us.

True, nothing has changed, but we have to believe this time next year thanks to CC in charge & with 2 transfer windows, a decent clear out of the crap, etc, that we will feel a lot happier than now (even under our better days with Hughes in charge).

It'll be painful in between but we have to hope this appointment will work out well.

[Andy74]

We have been rotten since xmas last year.

not quite 4 or 5 months!

otherwise hard to agrue with your points.

It was just very clear Yogi couldn't motivate the team or organise them as much as we needed. Dreadful in most derbies, 'that' game at fir park, pathetic displays at hamilton, in perth and many other away grounds. He knew we were a soft touch before taken over, yet didn't really improve us.

True, nothing has changed, but we have to believe this time next year thanks to CC in charge & with 2 transfer windows, a decent clear out of the crap, etc, that we will feel a lot happier than now (even under our better days with Hughes in charge).

It'll be painful in between but we have to hope this appointment will work out well.

It wasn't Christmas it was after we won at Parkhead which was some time later. In terms of playing months we had 4 to 5 bad months.

[Golden Bear]

We have been rotten since xmas last year.

not quite 4 or 5 months!

otherwise hard to agrue with your points.

It was just very clear Yogi couldn't motivate the team or organise them as much as we needed. Dreadful in most derbies, 'that' game at fir park, pathetic displays at hamilton, in perth and many other away grounds. He knew we were a soft touch before taken over, yet didn't really improve us.

True, nothing has changed, but we have to believe this time next year thanks to CC in charge & with 2 transfer windows, a decent clear out of the crap, etc, that we will feel a lot happier than now (even under our better days with Hughes in charge).

It'll be painful in between but we have to hope this appointment will work out well.

I agree with that but first of all we've got to avoid relegation and that is by no means a certainty.

[Andy74]

14 February was arguably the day it started to go pretty badly when we lost at Ibrox. In the January we'd played 6 won 4 and drew 1 from what I can see.

Not really the post Christmas collapse that gets earlier and earlier every time its quoted here!

I actually think we picked up in May and were a bit unlucky.

At the start of this season I thought opening day at Fir Park we were terrific and then very unlucky against Rangers before going on to sell Stokes and getting his replacement injured.

If we never allow managers this sort of thing then ultimately we will keep coming back to where we started.

For those who thought Hughes was useless tactically and in interviews I'd be intreagued to see a summary of where CC has been different?

As I've said elsewhere I am a fan of his and think he will do well but I'm struggling to really see what we have gained by changing the manager either short or long term.

[BEEJ]

As I've said elsewhere I am a fan of his and think he will do well but I'm struggling to really see what we have gained by changing the manager either short or long term.
And you seriously believe that after just 8 matches in charge, comparisons of the two managers are valid?

Would we, in your opinion, be in a better position now if Hughes / Rice had remained in charge for the last 8 matches and delivered the same outcome?

Perhaps you would be happier if we were hearing of Hughes sacking just this week? Two to three weeks of a recruitment process ahead of us, followed by a desperate scrambling for the new incumbent to get to know the squad he has before making a few last-minute moves during the January transfer window.

Just how many chances can you give one individual to prove that he's up to the job? How many excuses can you make for a manager who has delivered one of the poorest set of results over six playing months in this club's history?

[Jim44]

I agree with that but first of all we've got to avoid relegation and that is by no means a certainty.

I'd put our chances at no more than 50-50.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I'd put our chances at no more than 50-50.

You should go down the bookies then, they'll offer far better than evens on Hibs being relegated.

[Andy74]

And you seriously believe that after just 8 matches in charge, comparisons of the two managers are valid?

Would we, in your opinion, be in a better position now if Hughes / Rice had remained in charge for the last 8 matches and delivered the same outcome?

Perhaps you would be happier if we were hearing of Hughes sacking just this week? Two to three weeks of a recruitment process ahead of us, followed by a desperate scrambling for the new incumbent to get to know the squad he has before making a few last-minute moves during the January transfer window.

Just how many chances can you give one individual to prove that he's up to the job? How many excuses can you make for a manager who has delivered one of the poorest set of results over six playing months in this club's history?

I'm only going on the reasons given for people wanting to get rid of Hughes.

By all accounts it was his tactical awareness, inability to change games, relationships with the players, his interviews, you name it.

I was therefore expecting an instant uplift from someone who could sort these simple things out and send us on our way.

Unless people are telling me that all the reasons given weren't the real reasons?

I said at the time that I was not convinced that all the things the manager was being blamed for were the underlying reasons for our form and results and that we needed to be a bit careful with what we wished for because we'd be back where we started soon enough.

When we realise after a transfer window or two that CC can't instantly guarantee success either it'll be down to his tactics, formations, approach etc and then here we go again.

I'm still looking for any indication from anyone as to where CC's formations, tactics, selections, media handling etc are in any way different from what has gone before? Those being all the main reasons we wanted change.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

We probably never gave Mixu enough time in hindsight.

Collins left Mixu with a lot of dross to work with - players worse than what we've got just now! Mixu then told us that a top six finish was his aim, which wasn't good enough for Hibs fans at the time.

If CC was to come out now and declare a target of no less than 6th place i'd be delighted under current circumstances!

Mixu's downfall was not winning enough games and persisting with his 4-3-3 formation, which ironically is the system he plays at Killie, i believe. We also endured a lot of draws under Mixu which was fustrating. Oh and his post match interviews were like a broken record - "the boys done a fantastic job"!

I will say one thing though - at least Mixu's teams were well up for the derby and i would take that any day over the 'couldn't give a crap' mentality in place just now!

I think we should give the managers more time but how does one know you have the right person in the first place?

We could just be giving the wrong man for the job more time!

[lucky]

Whether we gave Mixu and Yogi enough time is now irrelevant. What is crucial is we back CC and give him time to turn it around. Successful teams are usually built over time. Hibs now have everything in place but its time now to invest in the playing staff. I'm told Hibs are the only SPL club that don't pay their under 17 (they go an educational course that Hibs pay) players. We seem to carry this tight fisted attitude towards the financial aspects of all the staff. Rodders has done a great job on the infrastructure but acts like a Victorian mill owner when it comes to paying players.

[sahib]

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs.Good question, don't have an answer though. Beginning to think that your last sentence may not be that far off the mark

There is and has been for years. It is very much part of our proud heritage. Do you think there is a single person at the club who expects success or even thinks it possible?

Sorry, I depress myself sometimes!

[RIP]

There's an underlying problem at Hibs.

Since the fire sale no manager has been given long enough to rebuild

If we had given Mixu or Yogi 3 years I personally think they would have turned us around

[BEEJ]

I'm only going on the reasons given for people wanting to get rid of Hughes.

By all accounts it was his tactical awareness, inability to change games, relationships with the players, his interviews, you name it.

I was therefore expecting an instant uplift from someone who could sort these simple things out and send us on our way.

Unless people are telling me that all the reasons given weren't the real reasons?

I said at the time that I was not convinced that all the things the manager was being blamed for were the underlying reasons for our form and results and that we needed to be a bit careful with what we wished for because we'd be back where we started soon enough.

When we realise after a transfer window or two that CC can't instantly guarantee success either it'll be down to his tactics, formations, approach etc and then here we go again.

I'm still looking for any indication from anyone as to where CC's formations, tactics, selections, media handling etc are in any way different from what has gone before? Those being all the main reasons we wanted change.
Andy, if Hughes had got off to a sluggish start as a Manager and posters had come on here calling into question his appointment, you would have jumped on them - and rightly so.

The fact that Yogi got us off to a flying start probably had much to do with him joining the club in the close season, having a summer to work with the squad and a transfer window to bring in a few fresh faces before the season kicked off.

CC has not had that luxury yet. So to expect an 'instant uplift' is a bit unfair. He's been brought in - as the saying goes - to catch a falling knife; a team that has since the spring of 2010 got into the habit of losing. It was unlikely that he would be able to transform that side overnight.

In answer to your questions:
The only direct comparison I can make on tactics / performances is that I've had the 'pleasure' of attending both fixtures at Rugby Park this season. Both fixtures, of course, we lost. But on Saturday there we certainly looked a tighter unit than in the first CIS cup game. We were on top for most of the second half; had we not suffered that bizarre sending off decision 10 minutes or so from the end we might have got something from the match.

In the previous encounter in October we were dismal and Killie appeared to run through our midfield at will. We were lucky only to lose 3-1 that night. We also had the stories of the player punch-up in the away dressing room at full-time.

As for the media handling, I can't help feeling that CC's quieter persona is making some people question his communication and management skills. He lacks Yogi's 'gift of the gab' but, personally, I have preferred CC's more thoughtful and straightforward delivery. What he has said has invariably been relevant and to the point and I get the picture of someone who knows the problems and is working on them.

I even noticed a quote in yesterday's Metro where CC appeared to point the finger at one player on the right side of our defence as being a weak point (Hart, presumably). So he's not afraid to be specific about such matters as opposed to the oft-quoted "I can't fault the lads, they gave me everything", approach of his predecessor.

Only time will tell whether CC is the right appointment or yet another managerial dud. The problem he faces now is that he has the added pressure of a lowly league position and a team with a losing mentality. Sadly that's largely a legacy he inherited from Yogi.

[hibeedonald]

killie beating celtic 1-0 aswell

[RickyS]

We probably never gave Mixu enough time in hindsight.

Collins left Mixu with a lot of dross to work with - players worse than what we've got just now! Mixu then told us that a top six finish was his aim, which wasn't good enough for Hibs fans at the time.

If CC was to come out now and declare a target of no less than 6th place i'd be delighted under current circumstances!

Mixu's downfall was not winning enough games and persisting with his 4-3-3 formation, which ironically is the system he plays at Killie, i believe. We also endured a lot of draws under Mixu which was fustrating. Oh and his post match interviews were like a broken record - "the boys done a fantastic job"!

I will say one thing though - at least Mixu's teams were well up for the derby and i would take that any day over the 'couldn't give a crap' mentality in place just now!

I think we should give the managers more time but how does one know you have the right person in the first place?

We could just be giving the wrong man for the job more time!

Mixu's record against the pink ones and the bigots was excellent. he seemed to be able to fire the guys up for those matches, it was not getting them up for the others that was his problem. How I would love to have him in charge for the derby:cool2:

[flood]

Killie fan here.....


Every word that Mixu has said since he was appointed has been spot on. I have contacts within Kiilie that admit they were blown away with Mixus interview for job and that now they seem how bad JJ was and how his negative vibes affected the team.

9 of the players that started against Hibs on Saturday and tonight were on the books when old Jeff was the manager at Killie. Kelly (0 appearances), Bell (0 appearances), Sammon (next to 0 appearances) are three examples.....that are now starring for us.

Mixu has the team playing football that is expansive/entertaining/exciting......


I do not know what went right / wrong at Hibs but the guy is a star at Killie.

[Skanko79]

The thing is, typically of Hibs fans we expect far too much far too soon. A few bad results and we are on the gaffer's case. Happened with Mixu, Happened with Yogi and in all honesty its a matter of time, if things continue the way they are that it happens with Calderwood.

[WestSideHibby]

By Mixu's own admission, the Hibs job was too big a step for him. The time he had out of football seems to have given him a fresh outlook and heaps more knowledge which has helped him at Killie.

If he'd stayed with us he wouldn't have had that reflection time and there's nothing to say that he'd have turned it around.

I think that with him it may have been a case of right manager, wrong time.

As for Yogi? We were absolute guff since long before Christmas, we only put up with it because somehow we were managing to grind out results. When we stopped managing to do that is when it all started going downhill for Yogi.

[IWasThere2016]

Killie fan here.....


Every word that Mixu has said since he was appointed has been spot on. I have contacts within Kiilie that admit they were blown away with Mixus interview for job and that now they seem how bad JJ was and how his negative vibes affected the team.

9 of the players that started against Hibs on Saturday and tonight were on the books when old Jeff was the manager at Killie. Kelly (0 appearances), Bell (0 appearances), Sammon (next to 0 appearances) are three examples.....that are now starring for us.

Mixu has the team playing football that is expansive/entertaining/exciting......


I do not know what went right / wrong at Hibs but the guy is a star at Killie.

You're seeing a different style to that we 'enjoyed'.

I was at Tannadice recently and thought Killie were excellent.
Had Mixu had us playing the same way he'd still be at ER.

I have to say I fancy Killie e/w for the SC.

[Part/Time Supporter]

You're seeing a different style to that we 'enjoyed'.

I was at Tannadice recently and thought Killie were excellent.
Had Mixu had us playing the same way he'd still be at ER.

I have to say I fancy Killie e/w for the SC.

Erm, they got the Huns at Ibrox in their first round.

[Skanko79]

Erm, they got the Huns at Ibrox in their first round.


Huns are VERY beatable at Ibrox as we have already seen this season. Also Killie played well by all accounts at Parkhead last night.

[soproni1]

There's an underlying problem at Hibs.

Since the fire sale no manager has been given long enough to rebuild

If we had given Mixu or Yogi 3 years I personally think they would have turned us around

There lies the main problem - no team has been dismantled as quickly as our CIS team. others may have been significantly changed but mainly to bring in better players. Ours is severely inferior to that side.

It took around that length of time to build that team so it would have made sense to give them a similar amount of time.

However, there was always optimism around the younger players (even when BW was in charge) and even some of the other guys (like gary smith, stephen glass and alen orman) contributed positively at times during the building process. We (I) were always relatively confident that at some point, with the right man in charge, we would have a decent side on our hands.

I haven't thought that since then and we have thrown plenty more money at the team than we did during the building of that team. Here's hoping that CC can unearth a couple of Boozys or Shiels in the ocming months

[Ken]

Killie fan here.....


Every word that Mixu has said since he was appointed has been spot on. I have contacts within Kiilie that admit they were blown away with Mixus interview for job and that now they seem how bad JJ was and how his negative vibes affected the team.

9 of the players that started against Hibs on Saturday and tonight were on the books when old Jeff was the manager at Killie. Kelly (0 appearances), Bell (0 appearances), Sammon (next to 0 appearances) are three examples.....that are now starring for us.

Mixu has the team playing football that is expansive/entertaining/exciting......


I do not know what went right / wrong at Hibs but the guy is a star at Killie.

I think you'll be brought back down to earth when Emerenko leaves. Fair enough there have been a few boys that have came in and done well but I think alot of the supply and space has been created by Emerenko.

If he leaves in January I think Killie will get 8th at best.

Feel free to bring this post back up when Killie are flying high even after he leaves :agree:

[marleyhib]

Although Mowbray didn't win us anything he has been a pretty hard act to follow, fortunately for him he did have a lot of good youngsters at the time to work with.

JC inherited a good team and won us the league cup then in my opinion started to buy crap and bolted when the going got tough and the fact that we were selling all of the decent players that had come through to the OF. (he should have known this considering we sold him to the OF)

Mixu then inherited a team in turmoil, with some dross Collins had bought and he struggled to turn it around - I don't think he was given enough time. Same with Yogi whose record with Falkirk was pretty decent and he got us into Europe.

As fans we need to lower our expectations a bit, we have won 2 league cups since I started watching Hibs in the late 70s, we have no divine right or even track record of finishing 3rd regularly.

It must be tough running Hibs.

1. even if we invest more revenues in player wages we can't ever hope to complete with the OF or down South
2. the conveyor belt of young talent seems to have dried up - less revenue and a poorer team
3. any manager that comes in inherits a team in flux and the previous manager hasn't been there long enough
4. if a manager does well, he'll leave for more money
5. if a manager does badly then they are under pressure to sack them from the fans or risk dwindling attendances and income

There is no doubt that the club is run well, hats off to Mr Peatrie.

I think a few things have to happen.

- there needs to be better communication between the board and the fans
- as fans we need to be 100% behind our team regardless and not get on their back all the time
- CC needs to be given 3 years if at all possible (unless we are bottom 6 for next 3 years)
- if CC does fail then the board need to accept that they are not the right people to be picking the manager

[PISTOL1875]

A number of things have been bugging me of late:

Mixu was deemed not to be good enough and his style of football and tactics inadequate. However, on less of a budget he has a team sitting 8 points and four places above us that whacked Fartz 3-0 at Tinny. Oh, and they're playing nice football. How come he didn't do that at Hibs? Did we give him enough time?

Colin Nish came with a good reputation and a strong track record, yet is deemed not good enough and appears to be the latest in a line of players not performing to anything like their potential or to what they have done elsewhere. John Collins is worthy of a thread on his own.

The question is, does this run deeper than simply who is in charge? If it does, how can it be changed? I almost feel there is a culture of failure at Hibs. :confused:

I get the impression that when players come to ER they seem to flatter to deceive.. Take John Rankin for example.. When he signed for Hibs , I thought we had pulled off a masterstroke as he seemed pretty decent in the matches I'd seen him playing for Inverness...How wrong was I ????

I read a article in The Scotsman ( I think) the morning of the Hibs Killie match at ER.. It was an interview with Mixu about and what he done in his time out between leaving Hibs and becoming manager at Killie.. He stated that he took 6 months out to watch football around Europe and understand a bit better about how it should be played etc.. It seems that he has learnt a massive amount since his time at ER where now you can watch Killie zipping the ball around Mowbray style whereas when he was manager at ER it was nothing more than hoof to the forward ASAP...

He also didn't help himself in our eyes with his post match inteviews.. No matter how awful we had been , it was the same old story in the press. Everyone knows what I mean by this ...

[ballengeich]

I read a article in The Scotsman ( I think) the morning of the Hibs Killie match at ER.. It was an interview with Mixu about and what he done in his time out between leaving Hibs and becoming manager at Killie.. He stated that he took 6 months out to watch football around Europe and understand a bit better about how it should be played etc.. It seems that he has learnt a massive amount since his time at ER where now you can watch Killie zipping the ball around Mowbray style whereas when he was manager at ER it was nothing more than hoof to the forward ASAP...


He's also said that he wasn't wanting hoofball at Hibs, just an end to sideways passing with no end product.

With hindsight, we may have appointed Mixu one job too soon in his career - it's early in his time with Killie, but it seems that he's used his time out to educate himself further.

[PISTOL1875]

He's also said that he wasn't wanting hoofball at Hibs, just an end to sideways passing with no end product.

With hindsight, we may have appointed Mixu one job too soon in his career - it's early in his time with Killie, but it seems that he's used his time out to educate himself further.


Just after he took over , a friend of mine who is a fireman worked beside an ex-player who played under Mixu at Cowdenbeath I think.. The X player said that Mixu would play hoofball and was not open to making any changes or listening to anybodys advice wotsoever when it came to tactics etc.. He also said HIbs would go nowhere under him...

[J-C]

Do we as supporters live too much in past glories, like the Famous Five and Turnbull's Tornadoe's.

We need to get a reality check and realise we're a mid table club due to wage restraints, I think though that the board still sees us as a bigger club and therefore demands are at a greater level, a level which we struggle to hold onto.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Just after he took over , a friend of mine who is a fireman worked beside an ex-player who played under Mixu at Cowdenbeath I think.. The X player said that Mixu would play hoofball and was not open to making any changes or listening to anybodys advice wotsoever when it came to tactics etc.. He also said HIbs would go nowhere under him...

Killie certainly aren't playing "hoofball" now. If anything they overplay in their own end, Celtic should have been well in front at half time, purely due to them being gifted 3/4 clear chances by Killie defenders passing (and losing) the ball.

I think when he was at Hibs, Mixu's tactics were in part dictated by the squad he inherited and then quite a few signings were placed in his lap (Nish, Rankin, Murray and Riordan). He had three "first team" strikers (Nish, Fletcher and Riordan) and he tried to accommodate all of them in the team.

There were some really poor performances and results under Mixu (not least a 2-4 home defeat by a 10-man Killie), but he was mutually consented just at the point where he appeared to be getting to grips with the job. He won his last two derbies and took points off both of the OF in the league run-in.

[PISTOL1875]

Killie certainly aren't playing "hoofball" now. If anything they overplay in their own end, Celtic should have been well in front at half time, purely due to them being gifted 3/4 clear chances by Killie defenders passing (and losing) the ball.


Killie are probably the most improved team in the SPL this season.. They tried to play the ball on the deck last night but as you say over playing almost cost them...

You do need to have the right players at the club and maybe MIxu did try and play this way at ER but the players just weren't good enough.

We will never know now...