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View Full Version : I am amazed (Miller red card)



sunshine1875
19-12-2010, 09:45 AM
At the lack of reaction to Miller's sending off.

IF that happened to Celtic, there would have been a massive sense of injustice in the media, the phone ins and on forums. But what do we get, one post on Hibs.net that generates no respone (yet).

Has anyone seen it. Miller attempts to bring down the Killie player whilst rushing towards the box and disturbs his run rather than bring him down. The key action being the intention to bring the player down whilst not attempting to play the ball.

If the player had got through he would likely have got closed down by the two Hibs defenders that were in the box and in position to close him down.

So, the ref awards a foul. He goes to the linesman and I think the chat was about whether it was in or out of the box. No punishment is dished out against Miller.

Then after a brief delay, the ref obviously gets a message from the 4th official and then Miller is then sent off. How could the 4th official have got a better view of the incident compared to the ref or linesman.

Now, I am not debating whether he should have been sent off or not. It is the actions after that that resulted in him being sent off. Can you imagine the reaction if that happened to a Celtic player?

One positive for me was Miller's reaction to the sending off. Shocked but took his punishment. What would an infirm player have done in such a situation?

greenginger
19-12-2010, 10:04 AM
I said after the Dundee Utd v Celtic penalty farce I thought the 4th official is wired into somebody watching re-runs on a monitor.

I think this reinforces my suspicions. :agree:

ozzie
19-12-2010, 12:08 PM
if someone had watched the re run then it was a shocking decision to deem it violent conduct. last man back could have been argued as he did clip him but violent conduct !!!

Toaods
19-12-2010, 12:18 PM
if someone had watched the re run then it was a shocking decision to deem it violent conduct. last man back could have been argued as he did clip him but violent conduct !!!

...violent conduct as it was a kick? was never, ever gettign the ball.

Calderwood said post match it was a 'good' foul from our point of view as it effectively stopped him scoring....so that's good enough for me.

blackpoolhibs
19-12-2010, 12:22 PM
...violent conduct as it was a kick? was never, ever gettign the ball.

Calderwood said post match it was a 'good' foul from our point of view as it effectively stopped him scoring....so that's good enough for me.

Calderwoods a clown then, he was never in a goalscoring position.:confused:

ozzie
19-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Calderwoods a clown then, he was never in a goalscoring position.:confused:

ive seen a lot worse gone unpunished or with a free kick at worse.

PaulSmith
19-12-2010, 12:34 PM
I said after the Dundee Utd v Celtic penalty farce I thought the 4th official is wired into somebody watching re-runs on a monitor.

I think this reinforces my suspicions. :agree:

Eh? if someone watched a re-run then it's clear as day that its not VC..I wish in this instance that someone did have the opportunity to watch it

Ed De Gramo
19-12-2010, 01:23 PM
I thought video evidence can only be used after the match.....:confused:

Wotherspiniesta
19-12-2010, 01:32 PM
How many games is a player suspended for when charged with "violent conduct"?

Is he in trouble of missing the derby?

northern-hibee
19-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Calderwood seems to be a calm and collected individual who appears to be able to show restraint and respectfully accepts decisions.

Unfortunately, whilst in normal leagues this would be seen as a good trait, in this league, with our refs, this will be seized upon as a weakness. Refs will know in the back of their minds that any controversial decision given against Hibs will not cause them any grieve, whereas any decision given against OF and the like will open them up to horrific abuse from the manager. So I expect to see more blatantly poor reffing in the coming weeks. Why oh why cant they go on strike again and we can get better refs in from elsewhere as was so successfully done a few weeks ago.

Alfred E Newman
19-12-2010, 02:11 PM
Calderwood seems to be a calm and collected individual who appears to be able to show restraint and respectfully accepts decisions.

Unfortunately, whilst in normal leagues this would be seen as a good trait, in this league, with our refs, this will be seized upon as a weakness. Refs will know in the back of their minds that any controversial decision given against Hibs will not cause them any grieve, whereas any decision given against OF and the like will open them up to horrific abuse from the manager. So I expect to see more blatantly poor reffing in the coming weeks. Why oh why cant they go on strike again and we can get better refs in from elsewhere as was so successfully done a few weeks ago.

I think most supporters had sympathy with the refs over Lennons campaign against them but this decision only underlines yet again the poor state of refereeing in Scotland. The referees are not biased or bigoted they are just hopelessly inconsistant and useless.
The fact that this was a decision that went against Hibs will mean that no one in the media is remotely interested.

PaulSmith
19-12-2010, 03:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfDi8WIF1c

Future17
19-12-2010, 03:33 PM
How many games is a player suspended for when charged with "violent conduct"?

Is he in trouble of missing the derby?

Liam Miller has been missing in every game he's played for us against Hearts.

Dirkster23
19-12-2010, 03:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfDi8WIF1c

Bizarre decision, watched it a few times now and can't work out why it was a straight red at all :dunno:

CropleyWasGod
19-12-2010, 04:03 PM
Bizarre decision, watched it a few times now and can't work out why it was a straight red at all :dunno:

Me, too. I have to assume it was for something out of view. The way LM reacts suggests to me that he was guilty of something. He's often having a wee niggle at other players, and maybe this time he was caught?

grunt
19-12-2010, 04:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfDi8WIF1cWas that filmed by watching through someone's window?

silverhibee
19-12-2010, 04:12 PM
I think most supporters had sympathy with the refs over Lennons campaign against them but this decision only underlines yet again the poor state of refereeing in Scotland. The referees are not biased or bigoted they are just hopelessly inconsistant and useless.
The fact that this was a decision that went against Hibs will mean that no one in the media is remotely interested.

:top marks

The ref was shocking yesterday, with the betting scandal at Motherwell i am starting to worry about refs today, how he never gave us a foul for a pass back was sinister indeed.

J-C
19-12-2010, 04:15 PM
CC said after the game that it was a good foul for Hibs but then stated that the ref told him afterwards the red card was for dangerous challenge, now I've just watched the Youtube clip and if that was dangerous play then I'm a monkeys uncle, utterly rediculous decision.:confused:

silverhibee
19-12-2010, 04:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfDi8WIF1c

Mental, that is a baffling decision from the ref.
Also disapointed with CC's take on it after the game, as he and the Hibs bench were not happy at the time.

Saorsa
19-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Absolutely ludicrous :bitchy: nothing less than expected though going by the poor standards of refereeing in this country. Maybe they think that since they've been on strike nobody will criticise their crap performances now in case they walk out again. Well I wish they go back on strike then we can bring in some decent ones again.

Or maybe another betting scandal :cool2:

greenlex
19-12-2010, 04:35 PM
Absolutely ludicrous :bitchy: nothing less than expected though going by the poor standards of refereeing in this country. Maybe they think that since they've been on strike nobody will criticise their crap performances now in case they walk out again. Well I wish they go back on strike then we can bring in some decent ones again.

Or maybe another betting scandal :cool2:
That is the only explanation DD. The fourth official had a huge bet on for a red. :agree:

Hibercelona
19-12-2010, 04:36 PM
I personally believe that the refs are just going to start p!ssing about now.

Not that they weren't already doing a good job of it without trying to.

Hibercelona
19-12-2010, 04:38 PM
Mental, that is a baffling decision from the ref.
Also disapointed with CC's take on it after the game, as he and the Hibs bench were not happy at the time.

I don't believe that his take on it after the game was how he really felt about the incident.

Just tongue bitting me thinks. :agree:

Dirkster23
19-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Me, too. I have to assume it was for something out of view. The way LM reacts suggests to me that he was guilty of something. He's often having a wee niggle at other players, and maybe this time he was caught?

Seems the ref said it was for a dangerous challenge :dunno: If thats what passes for a straight red these days i'll be sticking a tenner on a red card in every game.

The_Todd
19-12-2010, 04:59 PM
Demanding clarification is such a Celtc thing, really. It's done, it's happened, it's over.

PaulSmith
19-12-2010, 05:27 PM
Demanding clarification is such a Celtc thing, really. It's done, it's happened, it's over.

Not at all, it's within Hibs rights and the SFA rules to appeal a decision of violent conduct.

Hibs will appeal and the red card will be rescinded.

moggie
19-12-2010, 05:46 PM
Maybe Vlad does have a point, why are we not shouting from the rooftops about this instead of taking it lying down.:rolleyes:

Toaods
19-12-2010, 06:20 PM
Hibs won't appeal. No point, we'd get nowhere.

PaulSmith
19-12-2010, 06:21 PM
Hibs won't appeal. No point, we'd get nowhere.

Why, we did when Miller was sent off by Euan Norris at Motherwell and won. Do you see any violent conduct in the incident?

Hibs will appeal.

blackpoolhibs
19-12-2010, 06:23 PM
Why, we did when Miller was sent off by Euan Norris at Motherwell and won. Do you see any violent conduct in the incident?

Hibs will appeal.

I'd be amazed if we did not appeal?

Saorsa
19-12-2010, 06:24 PM
Hibs won't appeal. No point, we'd get nowhere.Just something else that is rank rotten in Scottish fitba, the appeal system is a farce.

BEEJ
19-12-2010, 06:25 PM
Absolutely ludicrous :bitchy: nothing less than expected though going by the poor standards of refereeing in this country. Maybe they think that since they've been on strike nobody will criticise their crap performances now in case they walk out again. Well I wish they go back on strike then we can bring in some decent ones again.
:singing:
Bring back the foreigners,
Bring back the foreigners,
Bring back the foreigners,
:singing:

Holmesdale Hibs
19-12-2010, 06:39 PM
A shocking decision. Not even close to a red card. Surely he must have said something. Never violent contact.

Andy74
19-12-2010, 06:46 PM
Strange one. Has to be appealed if a straight red.

brog
19-12-2010, 08:05 PM
A ridiculous red card & it's blatantly obvious the ref was advised by 4th official looking at a monitor. Even if they got the decision right that is against the rules. As it was it was a possible goal scoring opportunity but Hibs had 2 players covering. De Graaf had a much clearer opportunity which he missed, mind you that's not a shock!!
I admire CC's calm demeanour but we must appeal about this. Wonder if Craig Thomson will do a Dougie McDonald & tell a porky!

matty_f
19-12-2010, 08:07 PM
We have to appeal that! Worst red card I've seen since mid-week!

Never in a million years violent conduct, wasn't a clear goal-scoring opportunity but should have been a yellow, IMHO.

Refs can GTF (again) if they're going to start sending off for nothing challenges like that.

PaulSmith
19-12-2010, 08:10 PM
A ridiculous red card & it's blatantly obvious the ref was advised by 4th official looking at a monitor. Even if they got the decision right that is against the rules. As it was it was a possible goal scoring opportunity but Hibs had 2 players covering. De Graaf had a much clearer opportunity which he missed, mind you that's not a shock!!
I admire CC's calm demeanour but we must appeal about this. Wonder if Craig Thomson will do a Dougie McDonald & tell a porky!

4th officials only involvement was to tell Thomson who had committed the foul as Thomson couldn't remember. Thomson has reported Miller for VC.

TV replays are the stuff of fantasy island

Sir David Gray
19-12-2010, 08:15 PM
We have to appeal that! Worst red card I've seen since mid-week!

Never in a million years violent conduct, wasn't a clear goal-scoring opportunity but should have been a yellow, IMHO.

Refs can GTF (again) if they're going to start sending off for nothing challenges like that.

:agree: I mentioned in another thread earlier that if players are going to be sent off for that then Scottish football is finished and broken beyond repair.

matty_f
19-12-2010, 08:17 PM
4th officials only involvement was to tell Thomson who had committed the foul as Thomson couldn't remember. Thomson has reported Miller for VC.

TV replays are the stuff of fantasy island

From the pictures, the ref has a good view of the foul, then speaks to the linesman (who flags), surely they would have known who dunnit without needing anyone else to come in.

In fact, if a ref's decided he's going to send someone off, it's normally the first thing he does if he's in a position to. IIRC, the ref is close by, gives the foul and could easily have called Miller in with the card out.

As it happened, he gave no indication that he was going to give a card out at all until after speaking to the 4th official.

Hope Hibs appeal, and when it's turned down I hope we tell the refs to shove their cards up their erse and tell them we're going on strike til we can sign some players and that.:greengrin

lapsedhibee
19-12-2010, 08:18 PM
Wasn't it Jackie McNamara who needlessly kicked/tripped someone a few years ago in the week before Christmas, in what was widely believed to be a deliberate move to get an immediate and convenient holiday from the fitba? :dunno:

skipster7
19-12-2010, 08:19 PM
my first thought was it was a kick and not disimilar to mcmanus on driver at parkhead last season.the balls away and hes deliberatly kicked the the player which is vc whether we like it or not.farcical that the ref didn't see it first time though.

brog
19-12-2010, 08:21 PM
4th officials only involvement was to tell Thomson who had committed the foul as Thomson couldn't remember. Thomson has reported Miller for VC.

TV replays are the stuff of fantasy island

I disagree. If you look at the video it's very clear that Thomson is originally only giving a free kick & taking no further action. You can then see him getting a message in his headset & only after that does he go to the 4th official. If it was to confirm the player why not go to the linesman, he was closer? I believe the red card was clearly instigated by the 4th official who was indeed on a fantasy island!

BEEJ
19-12-2010, 08:22 PM
From the pictures, the ref has a good view of the foul, then speaks to the linesman (who flags), surely they would have known who dunnit without needing anyone else to come in.

In fact, if a ref's decided he's going to send someone off, it's normally the first thing he does if he's in a position to. IIRC, the ref is close by, gives the foul and could easily have called Miller in with the card out.

As it happened, he gave no indication that he was going to give a card out at all until after speaking to the 4th official.
:agree: And bear in mid that the best part of two to three minutes elapsed between the incident and the showing of the red card.

Wotherspiniesta
19-12-2010, 08:23 PM
Just have a look at the highlights.

Hardly a kick, never mind violent conduct! Disgraceful decision from an utter clown of a referee.

Miller didn't seem too bothered though. :rolleyes:

Toaods
19-12-2010, 08:25 PM
my first thought was it was a kick and not disimilar to mcmanus on driver at parkhead last season.the balls away and hes deliberatly kicked the the player which is vc whether we like it or not.farcical that the ref didn't see it first time though.

The McManus tackle was terrible compared to Miller's but in essence, he threw Sammon off balance and it was 100% deliberate.

It will be classified as violent conduct because officialdom won't want to call it a deliberate foul.

matty_f
19-12-2010, 08:28 PM
The McManus tackle was terrible compared to Miller's but in essence, he threw Sammon off balance and it was 100% deliberate.

It will be classified as violent conduct because officialdom won't want to admit they've made yet another mistake.

Changed that slightly.:wink:

BEEJ
19-12-2010, 08:28 PM
my first thought was it was a kick and not disimilar to mcmanus on driver at parkhead last season.the balls away and hes deliberatly kicked the the player which is vc whether we like it or not.farcical that the ref didn't see it first time though.
And missed, as it happens. :greengrin No contact made.

Flicked out a foot in a poor / innocuous attempt to impede Sammon's advance.

Now ask yourself the time-honoured question. Had a Celtic or Rangers player done that in exactly the same circumstances, what would have happened?

Let me tell you. Every official there would have turned a blind eye. "Did he?" "Must have been marginal." "Didn't get a really good view of it at the time." "Missed that one".

Bring back the Maltese chaps and get these amateurs into the junior leagues where they belong. :coolhib:

skipster7
19-12-2010, 08:33 PM
The McManus tackle was terrible compared to Miller's but in essence, he threw Sammon off balance and it was 100% deliberate.

It will be classified as violent conduct because officialdom won't want to call it a deliberate foul.
i agree,nowhere as bad as mcmanus's but same intent-stop oppostion player with the ball out of the picture.soft as it was i can see why it was given in the current climate.

Steve-O
19-12-2010, 08:34 PM
...violent conduct as it was a kick? was never, ever gettign the ball.

Calderwood said post match it was a 'good' foul from our point of view as it effectively stopped him scoring....so that's good enough for me.

Re: the 'kick', it was hardly a massive swing of the leg.

Never a red card in a million years.

And never a 'goalscoring position' either.

ozzie
19-12-2010, 08:40 PM
doesn't it cost £1000 to appeal a red card? somebody has to pay for the sfa's christmas night out. give an outragous red card which will obviously be appealed & hey presto £1000 in the bank just in time to cover the costs. :wink: they obviously tried for it in the mwell v yams game but mwell didn't appeal so they had to go to plan b .

Danderhall Hibs
19-12-2010, 08:40 PM
I hope noone on here's questioning the referee?

Mind you they might read this and go on strike again - we could do with a few more weeks off.

Danderhall Hibs
19-12-2010, 08:43 PM
Miller didn't seem too bothered though. :rolleyes:

Good for him! We don't want our players going round challenging decisions and that - even if they are clearly wrong. The refs should be respected even if they are pish.

SouthamptonHibs
19-12-2010, 09:10 PM
Ref got it wrong.......shocking / disgusting decision

Hibs must appeal, if thats a red card the game is finished!!!

Ref and lino were shocking on this incident

fiolex1
19-12-2010, 09:26 PM
I remember Ian Black's tackle on Nikica Jelavic of Rangers the guy has been out for about three months after that tackle and Black only got a yellow.

Jones28
19-12-2010, 09:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfDi8WIF1c

He was sent off for THAT?!

PISTOL1875
19-12-2010, 09:57 PM
if someone had watched the re run then it was a shocking decision to deem it violent conduct. last man back could have been argued as he did clip him but violent conduct !!!


JUst seen it and it was a booking.. NO doubt about that.. I think it was Dickoh who was on the cover so he wasn't last man...

It was a foul but to be deemed violent conduct is laughable...

Whats the process of appeal ?? Can you appeal a straight red for violent conduct ???

Sir David Gray
19-12-2010, 10:08 PM
JUst seen it and it was a booking.. NO doubt about that.. I think it was Dickoh who was on the cover so he wasn't last man...

It was a foul but to be deemed violent conduct is laughable...

Whats the process of appeal ?? Can you appeal a straight red for violent conduct ???

If it was for violent conduct, a club can appeal.

3pm
19-12-2010, 10:28 PM
It's soft but he shouldn't have put himself in that position. He's been having petulant kicks at people sinced he signed. It caught up with him this weekend.

greenlex
19-12-2010, 10:35 PM
It was a trip not a kick. Can a trip be violent?

Saorsa
19-12-2010, 10:41 PM
It was a trip not a kick. Can a trip be violent?:agree:

It was disgraceful, if you tripped somebody up like that and it wisnae on a fitba park you'd get done for serious assault. :greengrin

stubru59
19-12-2010, 11:14 PM
In another place, at another time, we'd have appealed this sending off.

But, for reasons which have been well documented, that's not an option we're likely to pursue.

So, wrong is now right, and the victim is common sense.

BEEJ
20-12-2010, 12:05 AM
But, to be fair, Mixu thinks it was definitely a red card. No doubt in his mind whatsoever.

But I hope, having seen the incident on TV, he might now not be quite so certain of his position on this. :greengrin

sundo1875
20-12-2010, 07:48 AM
We won't appeal because it costs money

PaulSmith
20-12-2010, 10:13 AM
We won't appeal because it costs money

Aye OK, anything at all to back this up or just a typical random sweeping statement based on nothing.

Danderhall Hibs
20-12-2010, 10:41 AM
Aye OK, anything at all to back this up or just a typical random sweeping statement based on nothing.

:agree: Money’s not the reason we won’t appeal. The reason we won’t appeal is because it’s almost pointless – the ref has to admit he’s made a mistake before it can go to the panel. This rarely happens.

greenginger
20-12-2010, 10:41 AM
The newspapers seem to suggest the 4th official was only involved in identifying Miller as the player who committed the foul.

This is plain bullsh*t. The T.V. highlights clearly show Thomson and the linesman have a totally unobstructed view of the incident and can't possibly need assistance from the 4th official whose view from the half way line is obstructed.

The refs will never gain trust or respect if the fans are treated with this sort of contempt and dishonesty.

Sir David Gray
20-12-2010, 12:13 PM
:agree: Money’s not the reason we won’t appeal. The reason we won’t appeal is because it’s almost pointless – the ref has to admit he’s made a mistake before it can go to the panel. This rarely happens.

You're right, that rarely does happen.

However, Thomson wouldn't need to admit to any mistakes if he was acting on the advice of his fourth official. For all we know, Thomson went home to watch the game on Alba on Saturday night and couldn't believe that he was instructed by the fourth official to produce a red card and would immediately uphold an appeal, if one was forthcoming from Hibs.

We should know who took the decision to show the red card though. Was Thomson going to produce a red card anyway and simply wanted confirmation as to the player's identity from the fourth official, or was Thomson only going to award a free kick until the fourth official's involvement, who persuaded him to send Miller off?

Hibercelona
20-12-2010, 12:21 PM
People will disagree with me on here...... as per :cool2:

But I reckon we'll see a lot of decisions like this go against clubs like Hibs, St Mirren & Hamilton till the end of the season.

You can be assured that they will do everything in their power to keep Aberdeen up as they always have. :rolleyes:

sunshine1875
20-12-2010, 12:56 PM
From the pictures, the ref has a good view of the foul, then speaks to the linesman (who flags), surely they would have known who dunnit without needing anyone else to come in.

In fact, if a ref's decided he's going to send someone off, it's normally the first thing he does if he's in a position to. IIRC, the ref is close by, gives the foul and could easily have called Miller in with the card out.

As it happened, he gave no indication that he was going to give a card out at all until after speaking to the 4th official.

Hope Hibs appeal, and when it's turned down I hope we tell the refs to shove their cards up their erse and tell them we're going on strike til we can sign some players and that.:greengrin

Contrast the Miller sending off to this one from last nights Real game. This is what you call violent conduct followed by the ref getting straight to the player to dish out the red card. With Thomson, if he thought it was a red card his first thought would have been to go straight to Miller.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExvMX454Er4

James70
20-12-2010, 01:30 PM
According to a certain Mr Iain Macfarlane in today's Daily Express report he sums it up as follows.

THE GOOD - Build-up to Kilmarnock's opening goal.
THE BAD - Hib's first half performance.
THE UGLY - Liam Miller's dismissal.
REFEREE WATCH - Craig Thomson eventually got the red card decision right.

Without wishing to sound paranoid (I'll leave that to Celtic fans) this reporter never seems to have anything good to say about Hibs like so many others in the media and I will be watching his future match reports with interest.

PaulSmith
20-12-2010, 01:35 PM
The newspapers seem to suggest the 4th official was only involved in identifying Miller as the player who committed the foul.

This is plain bullsh*t. The T.V. highlights clearly show Thomson and the linesman have a totally unobstructed view of the incident and can't possibly need assistance from the 4th official whose view from the half way line is obstructed.

The refs will never gain trust or respect if the fans are treated with this sort of contempt and dishonesty.

The first paragrpah is fact, whether you choose to believe or not that's your choice.

The referee was caught up originally on whether it was outside or inside the box and failed to ensure that Miller was isolated before speaking to the asst ref.

He knew that he'd made an erse of identifying the player and was using his ear piece to ask all the officials who had committed the free kick as he couldn't identify him. The 4th official was able to tell him that it was Miller.

The decision itself was wrong IMO but let's keep to what happened

Killiehibbie
20-12-2010, 01:42 PM
I spoke to the player who was 'violently' tripped up this morning and he didn't understand why Miller was sent off.

greenginger
20-12-2010, 01:52 PM
The first paragrpah is fact, whether you choose to believe or not that's your choice.

The referee was caught up originally on whether it was outside or inside the box and failed to ensure that Miller was isolated before speaking to the asst ref.

He knew that he'd made an erse of identifying the player and was using his ear piece to ask all the officials who had committed the free kick as he couldn't identify him. The 4th official was able to tell him that it was Miller.

The decision itself was wrong IMO but let's keep to what happened


I don't know how you can say something is "fact" because its what the ref says it is.

If Dougie Mcdonald's explanation after the penalty incident had been "fact"it would'nt have unravelled so quickly and we would'nt have lost one of the best refs we

Andy74
20-12-2010, 01:54 PM
I spoke to the player who was 'violently' tripped up this morning and he didn't understand why Miller was sent off.

Yet in the papers he is saying miller should have gone off albeit not for violent conduct but for denying him the chance.

Killiehibbie
20-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Yet in the papers he is saying miller should have gone off albeit not for violent conduct but for denying him the chance.

His actual words were "it was a strange one"

PaulSmith
20-12-2010, 02:47 PM
I don't know how you can say something is "fact" because its what the ref says it is.

If Dougie Mcdonald's explanation after the penalty incident had been "fact"it would'nt have unravelled so quickly and we would'nt have lost one of the best refs we

No problems. There were 5 people all listening to the same conversation at the time of the incident and if you want to believe that there is a huge cover up on this then I can't change your mind.

If it was the 4th official who seen the incident and got Miller sent off then it'll up to him to complete the misconduct form. I'm quite sure the SFA may answer your question who submitted the misconduct form (they'll prob not go into any detail about it though) and confirm it was the match referee.

Andy74
20-12-2010, 03:22 PM
His actual words were "it was a strange one"

Yes on the reason given but not the red card, which he is being reported to have said was was merited.

ozzie
20-12-2010, 06:27 PM
We won't appeal because it costs money

just been confirmed aparently by derek adams we are appealing the red card.

grunt
22-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Look of surprise on Killie player's face...

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50485000/jpg/_50485555_miller.jpg